Qlink-457 visas for Dash8-400 drivers

[missing link]

Any truth to the rumer that QLink are looking to get federal approval for 457 visa's for direct entry captains for the 400?
We need Strong union representation NOW - before Lawrie and his band of circus clowns sell us down the river....:eek:

[newsensation]

BY Pass Pay for everyone.......:E

[Mach E Avelli]

Who's gunna check em out?

[Q4NVS]

Like Jet*, is this also a case of QLink simply not paying "enough"...Or actually due to a REAL Skills Shortage?

:zzz:

[nefarious1]

Qlink just announced a $45000 dollar bonus payable in 2 years too existing captains only. Not worried about retaining future captains at all, just stop the old ones going to virgin or retiring. Strange strategy, but then again logic has never been a strong point here.

[newsensation]

Qantaslink have also announced career progression into Virgin Blue!:D

Apparently GD will not allow Career Progression into Qantas, he would prefer to waste share holders profits training pilots for the opposition....:ugh:

[KRUSTY 34]

Whoaaa...!

nefarious 1, is that True? If it is then it is the first smart thing that QF-link management have done during this whole crisis.

Think about it, If QF-link lose their experienced Captains, then it is literally game over. REX are now finding that the experience level is so low, and with commands running at less than 8 months, most future candidates will not even meet the legal min rquirement to hold a command on the SAAB. A bit academic however, as there will be very few left to train them. Also game over! Based on the expansion plans of the major airlines, DJ, Tiger, VOz, and yes even QF and JQ could take every regional driver in the country and they still won't have enough! So where else are they gonna' get 'em? GA, It's all but dead. Military, just a drop in the bucket. Expats, they'll have to offer much more than they currently are.

The fact is the Regionals are the best and most available source of recruits for the major airlines. REX management, whilst acknowledging this fact have decided to do squat about it. To date QFlink have instigated a half assed retention plan that was nothing short of an insult. The money would have been better spent on a decent Xmas party for staff!

If this latest rumour is true, then I think the penny may have finally dropped at QF-link.

What remains to be seen is whether it is not too late, and whether it is enough? IMHO if this was floated a year ago, it would have been very effective. Now? I think the amount is probably 30% shy of what's required.

[newsensation]

The FO's should also get it! some Eastern FO's have been held back while SS set up its Canberra Base.....:ugh:

[KRUSTY 34]

The solution is simple.

40% retention bonus per year for all pilots after their initial bond period expires, forget paying for the endorsement, (rediculous).

Progression into Mainline after 5 years.

Do that and your crewing problems will be gone forever. If you think that is too expensive, then you might as well park the fleet and get out of the regional business altogether.

[missing link]

newsensation- you idiot, you wouldn't be a "senior F/O" by any chance would you?. Bugger everyone else as long as you're ok....... Let me guess - the seniority no would match, just by chance, about where you are?
ALL, repeat ALL pilots should be given the payment.
At the present time there are only 6 or so F/O's in the company who have the experience to take a command, but then again they were told 18 months ago when MD said " we don't see thet we will have a problem with crew numbers" If Eastern Syd were not a sheltered workshop they torch the joint and start again. :mad:

[armslides&crossdress]

How long will the Regional Q'link guys/girls keep calling for progression :ugh:You know deep down what Qantas Mainline think of YOU ( the poor redneck country cousins) far to inferior to be considerered to fly an ELITE Qantas Jet... after all QF invented the wing you know and have never had an accident (yeah right Bangkok..). You all stay out there beating around in the bush where you belong ........ Now I wish you did have progression Q,Link to Mainline > but understanding the mentality of Mainline drivers/managers and you know it will never be so. Simple answer ...Leave Q,Link worked for me..

[Kev9]

Krusty

With all due respect, your constant Management bashing is a tad boring.
Because it isn't that the QF management won't allow career progression for the Regional drivers. it's the Mainline drivers that wont allow it.
Its simple.

A QF747 Captain has scant regard or even any empathy with a Regional pilot.
Nor do they want them amongst their rank.

I could be wrong...
But I saw it with AN/KD and so it remains to this day.
But your solution is apt.:D



Sorry I should read other post as this is a repeat of the previous post.


But clearly this attitude about Regional pilots is an indication why most Regional pilot will jump ship at any opportunity, regardless of pay, to the majors.
Fark all that management can do when the market is in its current state.
Pardon the 'boring' comment call.

[Howard Hughes]

Sadly it has always been about protecting ones own turf...:sad:

Perhaps one day the entire company will be united! I live in hope that it will happen!:ok:

[bushy]

I remember reading in a "crash comic" about a Lockheed Constellation operated by "an Australian international airline" that crashed after an engine failure on takeoff. It over ran the runway and burned. The pax got off, but one pax was injured.

[max autobrakes]

Either of you two clowns even bothered to pick up a phone and talk to say ,the president of AIPA ,and see if anything reference career progression and the Group Opportunity List is going on?
Thought not!
You might be plesantly surprised!:eek:

[Kev9]

max autobrakes and DirectAnywhere

Put your Oxy masks on.
I'm guessing your both a tad euphoric.

The list you refer to has been under the heel of a QF747 Captain for lets say 15 to 20 years now.
The only think that will save you will be the support "The List' gets from the members, let alone it getting presented at an extraordinary meeting with Management at QF.
Just can never see it happening.
I saw it not happen at APA and would choke to see it happen with the 'Sky Gods'.

[bullamakanka]

As a previous poster said they dont seem to worried about furure captains leaving. There are no real extras offered by management for experienced Q'Link FO's or experienced GA guys to stay there. They just want to plug the gaps with low time FO's or cadets it seems, and keep the captains working extra hard.

Its great to see extra money for the Captians, however.

We need to get some of these extra payments put into on going documents, ie EBA's. Sure some extra money is great but it needs to be preserved for the future years and future staff.

It will disapear as soon as they find a way out of the present bind.

bulla.

[BAe32EP-Chief]

KEV can I ask what you mean by this? It is interesting

But I saw it with AN/KD and so it remains to this day.

[Kev9]

BAe32EP-Chief
KEV can I ask what you mean by this? It is interesting

Nothing more than that the ideal situation should be that people be given an opportunity for career progression through a 'group company'.
Past attempts from organizations have fallen very flat, very quickly..
....blah blah blah...
just pointless drivel really....

[Keg]

Kev9 is full of ****e and I'm a tad surprised that Howard has gone along for the ride.

To add further comment to Direct Anywhere's post. It's the current AIPA that is pushing the QF group hard for a group opportunity list. It's the management (and Geoff Dixon specifically) that have refused to consider the GOL. I and every other QF driver have that in writing with Geoff Dixon's signature on the bottom of the letter from about 12 months ago. This was in response to AIPA putting the idea to them.

The overwhelming majority of crew that I fly with have nothing but the utmost respect for the work done by the regional guys and gals and the skills that they bring with them to the mainline operation.

So as you can see both the AIPA and it's members believe in what the regionals bring to the table. Anyone pushing the line that AIPA or mainline crew as a rule don't support the regionals is either ignorant or pushing an agenda. Which is it Kev? :suspect:

(Actually your last post says it all....pointless drivel!). :E

[Keg]

No one- including the current generation of QF pilots- denies that QF has pranged aircraft and (shock horror) killed passengers at various stages in our history. Super Connies, Flying Boats, Rapides in PNG, QF1 @ BKK, etc.

[Kev9]

Keg
Why not read the posts before getting your guard up.
The AIPA can talk-the-talk; in the end thats all that it has been from the Executive, for years. Dixon hasn't been around for years.
To prove its true support then lets see the idea put to the vote to the members, before QF management.
Unite all the troops.
Just an idea.

Would you like to predict a result of either possibility?
Crewroom talk is one thing and a ballot is another.

[Keg]

OK, let's re-read your comments.

Because it isn't that the QF management won't allow career progression for the Regional drivers. it's the Mainline drivers that wont allow it.
Its simple.

Present tense used by you. Present situation is that Geoff Dixon is anti GOL and has written to the pilots stating that it won't happen. Present situation is that AIPA is trying to get a GOL implemented. Therefore you are wrong and either ignorant or are running an agenda.

There may be some truth to your comments as to why it hasn't happened in the past but I wouldn't agree that it's because AIPA has actively worked against it. Some AIPA COMs in the past have flirted with the idea but to be frank, management have never sought it.....if they did offer progression then there is nothing that AIPA or any other line pilot could do about it as we don't control who is employed.

A QF747 Captain has scant regard or even any empathy with a Regional pilot.
Nor do they want them amongst their rank.

I ly with 744 Captains quite frequently and apart from a few dills (that none of us tend to want to fly with anyway), there is nothing but admiration for the job that the regionals do flogging around the outback doing non precision approaches all day.

I could be wrong...

You are.

Wanna go again? :ugh: :rolleyes:

[Kev9]

Keg
Nope won't go again.


'Quote'
'I ly with 744 Captains quite frequently and apart from a few dills (that none of us tend to want to fly with anyway), there is nothing but admiration for the job that the regionals do flogging around the outback doing non precision approaches all day.'


When patronizing comments start, I'm walking.
No comments from me about 'Sky God' attitudes, nope, not from me.

ps I hope that all see sense and instigate career progression through the group.

I'm out

[newsensation]

The only thing stopping qantaslink pilots progression to mainline is GD and thats a fact, the current AIPA management is working very hard to unite the pilot group despite the ignorance of previous AIPA leaders. I also understand the current CP and other high management types are in favor of career progression, it is amazing that qantaslink pilots have a better career progression to virgin than to there own company. :ugh:

[Keg]

It's always interesting watching someone play the victim card time and again...particularly when they've been shown up as being a dill for their previous comments. If you want to continue being a dill Kev then just keep typing although personally I just admit when I'm wrong! :rolleyes:

I have nothing but professional admiration (as do the vast majority of the rest of my colleagues) for what the regional guys do day in, day out. If you want to interpret that admiration as patronising or condescending then there is absolutely nothing I can do except to say 'have a nice life'. Enjoy being a victim. :ugh:

Funny though that despite the face that you're ignorant as to what the current QF drivers are trying to achieve that we are both talking about the same thing.

[Howard Hughes]

I'm a tad surprised that Howard has gone along for the ride.
I agree rather a harsh and hasty post by me, I will edit it somewhat!

I still stand by my comment however that there is a certain amount of 'turf protecting' going on, even if by your own admission they are in the minority. Do these people by chance hold senior positions within the company? Within AIPA?

Perhaps this is where this perception (valid/or not) comes from?:confused:

[Keg]

G'day Howard, within AIPA? Possibly but the overwhelming majority of the COM is very pro GOL. Certainly I've not spoken to any COM member that is against the proposal.

QF management? I dunno....I haven't chatted to anyone in management about this issue in the last couple of years- I just read what Geoff Dixon writes to me about! :} I hope that even they may be starting to see the benefits of offering progression to our regional folk.

[CAPTBOB]

Howard and Keg,

Your agenda for the GOL and AIPA may gain more momentum if you would ask the domestic mainline drivers to stop giving us the "bird" as they taxi past our shinny jets painted in silver undercoat. I cant feel the love.

You will have to excuse me, I'm having a blonde moment, but I just can't work out how a QF driver, mainline or Long Haul would gain anything from a GOL. Are they REALLY that keen to come and fly a bus and the last bloke I told I was a Dash driver, didn't even know that we operated such a superb aircraft.

[Hugh Jarse]

Keg,

I remember a few years ago Dixon stated quite clearly that career progression would happen "over his dead body" and that if put in that position he would sell the regionals off.

The question you have to ask is this: Is it better to pig-headedly stick to this fatally flawed ethos and see the very people you need go to your opposition in unprecedented (and uncontrolled numbers), or do you accept the fact that you must offer them a career path, and take control of the rate these guy's progress out of one part of your company into another? (And keep them in the QF Group?):ugh::ugh:

The QF group NEEDS experienced crew throughout its operations. All businesses have a shortfall in one way or another. Regardless of which side of the fence you sit, the fact of the matter is that whoever has all the pilots wins. Currently Qantas is deliberately overlooking a critical means of stopping attrition.

The other problem they will be facing from February is the imminent onslaught into much of the Qantaslink market by Virgin Blue. Ironically, a lot of the E-Jet crews will be recently departed highly experienced QantasLink pilots! How will QantasLink respond? How can QantasLink respond?

Why did/are they leaving? Many for less (initially) wages!

There are quite a few Captains who do not wish to leave, but see no alternative. Lifestyle died with the last EBA but all the companies these Captains are applying to offer at least 2 more days off per month. The only other way of boosting your lifestyle is via a Mainline position.

Therefore, if the company is unable to offer much needed lifestyle improvements and a career path within the QF Group to their key regional staff, these staff will take the easier option and progress themselves outside the group. Then the group loses out. Both Qantas and QantasLink.

I used the following analogy to one of my managers recently: With the current crew shortages if I were in a position of influence I would be like a rabid dog trying to viciously protect my staff from going to the opposition. I would take all necessary steps to get them to want to stay - not want to leave.......If that means career progression and lifestyle improvements, then so be it. A small price to pay for keeping the opposition's hands off my experienced staff and making it harder for them to crew their aeroplanes!

At the moment more still want to leave. Kind of says it all :(

If I were a shareholder I'd be spewing at the thought of losing revenue through a lack of crew. I'd be livid if I knew these same crew were going to the opposition purely because of one person's pig-headedness!

[Capt Claret]

Fer christ's sake Jarse, stop talking so much sense.

You keep talking like that an' you'll never make a manager. You mark my words! :E :ok:

[Hugh Jarse]

Hullo Clarrie!

I banged my head against a brick wall with the last post.

Guess what?

All I did was hurt my head. Ops normal :cool:

I would never be a good aviation manager, because I believe my staff are my key asset. That would get me sacked in the blink of an eye. Or at least no KPI bonus. The aforementioned philosophy of looking after your staff seems to be a successful cornerstone in every industry except aviation.:ugh:

Hope the family is well mate.

[Q4NVS]

IMHO all is Not Lost...

I recently (days ago), received a Document from someone at Qantas Group:
[email protected]

And I qoute:
Progression to Qantas*
* Qualifying period of 2-years applies before progression to Qantas is available, some conditions apply

:zzz:

[WynSock]

From the tone of the middle managers at Qlink, I get the impression they want us to leave.


The roster/lifestyle has gone to ****e,
the first "bonus" was an outstanding, insulting disaster,
some wise bean counter had the great idea of charging new hires; and
tired pilots have had much needed annual leave cancelled because of the staff shortages.
but hey, "there is no pilot shortage"

:hmm:

[Dragun]

Q4NVS

IMHO all is Not Lost...

I recently (days ago), received a Document from someone at Qantas Group:
[email protected]

And I qoute:

Quote:
Progression to Qantas*
* Qualifying period of 2-years applies before progression to Qantas is available, some conditions apply

This has been available since April/May 2007 and those 'conditions' involve all testing again (psych/skills then sim and interview). The only difference between this and DE employment is that some concessions are made in one area of the applicants choice which bias' the overall application on the competitive scale. On top of this, FT-9 scores from all cyclics are taken into consideration which, in a sense, makes it harder than DE employment.

This isn't the progression the guys in Qlink are looking for. True progression involves none of the above - just years of service and then straight to a ground school.

[DeafStar]

If Darth wrote a letter saying the would be no GOL, did he state why?

Why does he not want to see regional pilots progress? Anyone know?

[armslides&crossdress]

DEC on Q400 .. I may come home for that & no visa Reqd ! lifestyle not $$
but feel it will never be on offer

As for Hugh Jarse - as you where one of the Good Guys in my time I must say surprised you have not jumped ship by now.. maybe progression to Jetstar for EAA/Sunnies...

As for those bent out of shape like DirectAny and Max Autobrake... get over IT.. Kev and I simply expressing what we encountered when employed as a Regional pilot over many years with Kd and QF Link, generalisation Yes so appologies to the Good Mainline driver's..

[Keg]

CAPTBOB, I flew the 767 around the domestic network for eight years and gave the regional guys and gals a lot of :ok: over that time frame but I never saw anyone flip the bird! :eek: I'm disappointed that is the case.

I do recall a funny time once when we passed in front of a DJ aircraft and the skipper said 'watch this' and flipped the bird at the crew. Of course the DJ driver got into the spirit of things and flipped it straight back. The difference was that we were facing his nose as we went past and so all the two crew were the only people to see our bird. We of course were side on and so the DJ skipper flipped the bird to everyone down the left hand side of our aircraft! :eek: :}

Hugh, I'm with you brother. It's insanity pure and simple.

[missing link]

Armslides...........If bypass pay is not offered to all who meet the requirements, good luck getting any f/o to crew with you. Lots of sick leave and not a healthy crew room i should think:=

[Q4NVS]

So what are the minimum requirements for a Q400 Captain then..?

[max autobrakes]

A tendency towards a masochistic disposition might help.:bored: