f/o training

[malc4d]

Hi any one know about visa etc. if l (UK holds FAA CFII MEI) wanna do an F/O
course here. Have been on the end of a ringing phone to the london embassy for hrs and hrs and..................

[Omania335]

what do you mean by F/O course ????

[malc4d]

er ...... sit in right seat and read a book. ...........duh

Some charter or airlines offer training as 1st officers. :hmm:

[clevlandHD]

In Canada this is called a "JOB" and you get paid for it. If you want to come over to reduce everyone's T & Cs, well, you are not welcome. Perhaps you could call Ezy or Ryanair...

[stephen_b]

As far as I know it is called a "job" quite a lot around the world!! Unless I am mistaken....
Maybe he meant "book" as aerodrome charts....easy mistake...tehehe

[malc4d]

hmmm different country forum, same stupid answers. And they say that its a Profession.............:}

[northeast canuck]

Stupid question, more like.

Like you said, it is a profession, so leave it to the professionals and find a different career.

[AviatorSteve]

Though I don't disagree with some of the comments you guys have the tendency to be quite harsh LOL. Oh well I suppose its that harshness that discourages people from making stupid threads.

[malc4d]

Hmmm and yet more moronic answers to a simple question. :confused:

[northeast canuck]

Ok here's a simple answer to your 'simple' question (I'll try not to make it to Moronic for you):

NO.

There is no visa, and no courses of the type you are asking about. Go to the USA for that sort of thing.

And don't bother coming back because if you think that an FO's job is to read books then you wouldn't last two seconds with me, or anyone else I'm afraid.

[malc4d]

I realy like when people DONT do their homework..... I wouldn't have asked the question had there not been the course in the first place. As i said moronic stupid answers.............:ugh:

[northeast canuck]

Oh, sorry sir. Yes, quite right I should have done my homework. I will try my best to do better next time. So sorry to have let you down.

I think its time to close this thread.

[malc4d]

I had asked a simple question about if a visa is needed to go to Canada for a training course. I didnt expect it to become a slanging match.............:eek:
It was a profesional question and it would have been nice had someone given a profesional answer.....:rolleyes:

[Thylakoid]

Malc4d, as a foreigner, you will need a student visa to go to Canada and enroll in any course. Yet, I am not aware of any airline there running a sponsorship program like the one you've mentioned.

Good luck

[malc4d]

Ahhh see how easy it is to give a sensible reply.....:) :D:D
Thanks for your info. saw it in a link this morning, think its in a 1900 or 99.

Ive paid for my ppl, my cpl,my multi ir and my cfii, mei. l would rather not pay anymore.........:rolleyes:
But if it gets me to fly, and learn more about flying ' the line ' and be useful on the flightdeck, then oh well......others have done it before me.

AND before anyone jumps down on me l repeat: l would rather not.......

[JBI]

I too am not aware of any such courses in Canada, just a few in the US. The funny thing is that in the US, currently regional airlines are hiring pilots to fly 1900s, Dashs and even RJs with as low as 250 hours. While the pay is exceptionally low, they are still getting paid.

I do not know the exact realities of the industry in Europe. However, it is my understanding that there are far less entry level jobs as there are in Canada. In Canada it is difficult enough to get a job as a low time pilot and it usually requires working the ramp in some remote northern town or instructing. In Europe, I hear that those types of jobs are far more difficult to come by. However, getting an airline job seems to be significantly easier.

Looking at this reality in Europe (and other parts of the world) I do not make a judgement call on the appropriateness of 'paying for a job' for European pilots.

In Canada (and likely the US) however, this practice should not be condoned. It is difficult to get your first flying job, but it can be done. The problem with flying for free or paying for a 'job' is that the airlines who pay their pilots have to compete with airlines that don't.

The old saying is that if you want to make a small fortune in the airline industry, you should start with a big fortune! Airlines do not make tonnes of money. As it is, the entry level jobs for Canadian pilots are rather low paying. If those airlines who pay their pilots have to compete against airlines that don't pay their pilots, there will be added costs. This could eventually lead to the airline no longer being profitable.

The reasoning of the initial poster was that paying to fly means that he or she can get experience so he can get a job that pays well. However, if airlines that pay well have to lower their wages (or possibly go out of business) because they have to compete against airlines that don't pay pilots, there will be no point in having paid for your job as there will be no high paying airlines to move to.

The above is obviously an extreme example, but nonetheless, working or paying for a job is detrimental to the pilot profession as a whole.

Flying is a job. It is a career. It can be a very good career and can put food on the table. Getting hours in and of itself is not a form of payment. In my opinion, if the airline is making money off your services as a pilot, you deserve to be paid.

As stated, I do not wish to try and impose Canadian pilot 'morality' on pilots in the rest of the world, however, this is why the reaction from some was so harsh. I understand that the situation is far different in other countries and while unfortunate, this may be the necessary reality to get a job. It is too bad that is the case though. While sacrifices need to be made to succeed, paying for experience is not something that should happen.

Cheers,
James Ball

[malc4d]

Thanks James for another great reply. :D :D :D

l dont want to pay anymore for more training that the next pilot.
But with an FAA license in euroland worth about as much as toilet paper, l need to get as much worthwhile flight time as possable.
Why is it deemed ' ok ' to pay for a type rating, but not to pay less for turbine time than say doing the £100.00 hamburger flights in a rented seminol, l dont know.
Surely it makes more sense to get the experiance flying 135 opps ??? :confused:

It does seem most of these courses are in the USA, but that brings TSA and visa probs. Had seen a link to one in Canada, thats why the thread in the first place.......... didnt think that it would turn into a stupid worthless slanging match :rolleyes:

Malc

[planett]

Don't call him Shirley.:}

[tbaylx]

You post a question regarding flying for free in a canadian forum you can guarantee it's going to turn into a slagging match wether you expected it or not.

Maybe after you've been flying for 10 years and are still getting paid entry level wages you'll understand why you got the reaction you did.

[malc4d]

FOR FREE !!!!!!!!!! where does it say for free.......... thought i was gonna pay a lot of money into the Canadian system. flights to Canada, car rental, hotel rental AND the fee to fly plus food living expences ......... etc
FREE hah ! :hmm:
maybe you'ed better read the thread again..................:ugh:
Thanks to those of you who posted sensable replies. :D:D:D:D....
the others.,go back to your toyboxes :)

[tbaylx]

Ok maybe i wasn't clear.

If you post a question about paying to fly and not receiving any form of salary on a canadian forum don't be suprised if you meet with some hostility. Sorry that point was lost in the first post.

[northeast canuck]

Tbaylx,

Don't bother trying to reason with him. He doesn't seem to be able to understand much. He has the mindset of an eight year old child.

What I can't understand is why doesn't he just stay here in the UK where there are lots of jobs for pilots with no hours - and they pay well, instead of going to Canada where there is a perpetual bun-fight over jobs. He probably can't pass the psychometrics.

No doubt he will respond with another silly post - wait for it....

[peterpuck]

If I ever come across this type of mindless ass flying for free over here he'll have less of a chance than Brittney Spears life coach.

[cheez]

Relax boys. He's asking for some advice, as most of us pilots have done in the past. When it comes to tellling some European to stay with EZY or FR....easy boys.....they both pay more than AC or WJ!

As an Air Force guy currently in the Uk, I am embarrased by your responses. Relax guys, and give some real advice.

Right now you're all acting like a bunch o cocks...though there are no decent paying jobs for non-Cdns in Canada....sorry dude.

[malc4d]

cheez :D:D:D:D:D

northeast had you read my question and then the replies you would see that i hold FAA licenses.... please let me know whos hireing here in the uk FAA CPL' s
ie a JOB !!!!! Is this a stupid enough post for you.....:ugh: and who said i dont have any hours.....

[lgw]

Hi any one know about visa etc. if l (UK holds FAA CFII MEI) wanna do an F/O
course here. Have been on the end of a ringing phone to the london embassy for hrs and hrs and..................



what do you mean by F/O course ????




er ...... sit in right seat and read a book. ...........duh


Take it easy Cheez. Stupid question with a reasonable response followed by a dumbass response. I too am a Canadian who worked in the UK for a few years and this guy comes across like my 12 year old daughter.

[malc4d]

so as l read my question yet again..........
I see that it was about a work or student visa !!!!!!!!!!

We could go on about how come you Canadians and yanks can come here and ' take ' our jobs, BUT we Brits cant go there.............now that might be stupid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

And i am sorry that l didnt know that this sort of training was an American thing only, hence the JOKE :) reply about reading a book !!

SOOOOOO to all who took offence at a simple question SORRY :ugh:

To the others, thankyou for your answers :D:D

[northeast canuck]

Cheez,

Sorry if you are embarrased by the responses, but as far as I am concerned, he asked a question that didn't actually make a lot of sense, hence the first response which was to ask basically what he was talking about (geniune). The response to that was rude, cocky and frankly p*ssed everyone off. He does not deserve "advice". I actually thought it was a wind-up at first, but looking at his other postings I can see he is genuinely like this. I also wonder if he is a young (angry) teenage boy, looking at the way he writes.

Malc4d, for your info, there are some bizjet companies here in the UK that fly N registered aircraft so you can operate with an FAA licence. As far as courses go, you have an FAA licence so go to the USA for training! Where does Canada come into any of this? They use Canadian licences there! OK you can convert but WHY would you want to?

And a bit of advice for you - sarcastic responses on the internet do not come across that way. They make you look like a d*ck.

[cheez]

Guys,

After re-reading this forum in a more "sober" frame of mind, I can see that some of the hostility towards him is deserved.....

Sarcasm never works well online!

[malc4d]

Oh MY GOD................

When l wrote the question, EAGLEJET had a banner at the top of the page offering f/o training in the US.
Sorry but i though everybody knew what f/o training was......... my responce was (i thought), back to a sarcastic reply. I'm sorry to the poster....

Had you all come back with positive comments instead of sarcastic as most of you came back with, it would have been nicer, why the personal abuse ???

1) Went skiing in Canada and liked it....... thought it would be nice to do some flight training there. (not soooooo sure now).....

2) Have you tried to train in the US (as a non-Canadian) ? Visa and TSA.

3)I had read that it was easer to get this in Canada, hence the visa question.

4)l would like to get more flight time in bigger/faster aircraft to feel safer/confident.

5)My other postings ? have l been rude to someone ??

So again sorry for asking the question on a profesional forum.

now wheres my teddy

THE END

[PicMas]

Not looking for a p!ssing contest but:

Have you thought about doing the JAR "conversion"?

I was pretty much in your position ie. European with FAA licenses and sitting on a couple thousand hours. It took me 4months from first day of studying JAR ATPL until holding a freshly signed JAR CPL with ME-IR privileges.

My guess would be that flying 200hrs Beech 1900 on your FAA ticket, will not make you more employable in Europe. I have spoken with quite a few pilots on the N-registered turbine equipment in Europe (used to be one) and the experience level is generally VERY high.

Now with both FAA and JAA licenses it's a different ballgame. I landed a job with a reputable corporate outfit, paid rating and decent T&C.

[malc4d]

Thanks for the info and pm picmas :D:D

Have thought about it, but at another £20000.00 to 30000.00 ( and still no job, l do read the posts about jobs ) i hoped that l could do on an FAA ticket first, convert if and when needed later........ie when l had the money.

Did you manage to help mahi ?

[PicMas]

I'm sure £20-£30K is a VERY high estimate. I would estimate £5-£8K, I paid roughly £7K and the training is more expensive here than in UK.

It will probably also be worth it in the long run, having "local" licenses.
You can still work while studying ATPL, find some cheap distance learning course, memorise all the answers and get it over with.

I never heard back from Mahi....

[SIERRA ECHO XRAY]

Malc....I have been looking for the same sort of thing and my best shot is at Eagle Jet international in Florida USA. Canada is alittle too scanty for that sort of training.

Check out this link http://www.eaglejet.net/

[malc4d]

yup have looked into eaglejet thanks :D

[North of You]

Troll. I know I shouldn’t ……but I will. Siggggghhhhh

I would suggest to you not to come over here. You would last about one week into line indock with that attitude and mouth and then you would be fired at best, or taken behind the shed at worst. Drink you tea and stay where you are and don’t waste our time over here.