ATCO Shift cycling

[DTLP]

I am curious to know who works what?

Where I work we have a watch system and have a 6 / 4 cycle.

2 mornings 7am-3pm followed by;
2 afternoons 3pm-11pm and lastly;
2 nights 11pm-7am.

Upon completion of the second nightshift the day is deemed a sleep day followed by 3 off duty days.

Pure curiosity :)

[Brian81]

Where I used to work we did 3 days on, 2 days off.

1st day 14:00-21:00
2nd day 09:00-19:00 (with a 3 hour break between 12:00-15:00)
3rd day 07:00-14:00
two days off


Cushy eh? I miss that shift pattern like crazy!
It was a non 24hour airfield with 2 frequencies and (at worst scale) about 6 ATCOS.

lol.

Traa:ok:

[Vino Collapso]

Hi Brian....you still in ATC?

[kontrolor]

hmmm... we have 3 basic shifts
7: 6.45-13.45
14: 13.45-20.45
21: 20.45-6.45
then there are shifts 8 hours long, starting as suffix suggests: 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 16, 17
6 days on, 4 days off (including morning of the last night shift).

[good egg]

Try a 77day rolling roster!

[Ivor_Novello]

is the ATCO roster (let's say at NATS unit where the 6/4 pattern is in place) a steady 6/4 throughout the year so that you can predict what you going to be doing at any time, or is it still subject to availability / operational needs / last minute changes (apart from overtime or voluntary reshifting ?)

thanks

Ivor

[DTLP]

Mine is steady throughout the year which is great for forward planning, no requirements to return to work outside of the 6 days either.

[Manchester ATC]

Defo need a cycle in Manchester, were all getting beer bellys:):ok:

[chevvron]

It seems that in NATS at least, the 6 on/4 off is standard for 24 hr units while 6 on/3 off is the norm for non - 24 hours ones, hence these latter work more days per year and hence deserve more pay/higher banding THREAD CREEP!!

[Roffa]

You're welcome to do my night shifts if you want, chevvy...

[chevvron]

But you don't do the most arduouis shifts Roffa ie a 5 day week as an instructor at Hurn, and they get the same as you.

[Roffa]

Need to encourage the crème de la crème down to Hurn to pass on their skills I guess :hmm:

[SilentHandover]

Plus going on your theory of 6 on 3 off deserving more money than 6 on 4 off, 5 on 2 off as at the college should deserve even more money as they work even more days per year Chevvy.

[Jagohu]

Our typical roster is:

day 1: 15:00-23:00
day 2: 12:30-21:30
day 3 if on night shift this cycle: 07:30-12:30 and then back at 22:30 for the night until day 4 morning 6:30
day 3 if not on night shift: 09:00-15:00
day 4: 06:30-12:30

2 days off.
Of course these are official hours, so an earlier/later start or finish is possible depending on the sector group/traffic/available people/SV...

The roster should change to a 3/3 roster soon, but we still need new controllers for that, so it will take a while I guess...

[PPRuNe Radar]

NATS controllers work 35 hours net a week (averaged out over the year). Any shortfall from the shift pattern will be accounted for in the unit Working Practices agreement, for example by 'clawing back' attendances for specific events or duties.

The 'I work the same but get less days off' argument is a false one, at least in NATS.

[achtung]

our Union is pushing for a ridiculous 3-3 cycle... which practically speaking at Maastricht won't work...but it's interesting what you other guys are working.... what's this 6-4 set up like? how far in advance do you have your roster info?

[Roffa]

achtung, in our room at Swanwick (TC) the 6-4 basically can go like this...

MMAANNSOOO

Two mornings, two afternoons, two nights, sleep day, three off, or,

MMAADDOOOO

Two mornings, two afternoons, two late day shifts, four off, or,

MMAAODDOOO

Two mornings, two afternoons, day off, two early day shifts, three days off.


Within the core roster there are certain variations in the start/finish times of the M and A duties for a certain number of staff and also different start/finish times depending which particular day duty you are rostered for.

The MMAA part is essentially fixed and you can tell what you're doing days, weeks, months, years ahead.

For the Ns or Ds, roughly half the watch will do Ns and the other half Ds.

You can express a preference or make requests for the Ns and Ds and the rosterers try to accommodate. The roster is published by the 20th of the preceding month and it's only when it is actually published that you know for sure what you'll be doing on the following months' N or D duties. Swaps are okay as long as the validations fit.

[Bright-Ling]

Mr Chevvron, sir.

What about your weekend/PH shifts where you still do M or A duties, but only between 0800-2000hrs local........? (ie M shift 0800-1400 and A 1400-2000 Local - and they are the late stays!!!!)

B-L:ok:

[chevvron]

But as Prune radar points out, we are all rostered for the same number of hours per week, hence as I say non 24 hour units work more days in total over a year; in any case weekends are FAR more complicated nowadays what with having to cover the new LARS sectors with 9 (not 6) hour day shifts, plus we don't get the luxury of every weekend off like the college do.

[Roffa]

Chip, shoulder, college chevvron?

[vintage ATCO]

My roster is . . .

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ZZzzzzzzz :)

They were starting to tinker with roster, 0600 starts, 2400 finishes. Doesn't match my body clock. Time to leave . . . .

[chevvron]

I wish I'd had £100 for every time I've declined the offer of a posting to the college, no way judging by the material they send out to operational units (not their fault I admit - they can't be blamed for not selecting the right material to train).

[PPRuNe Radar]

I guess it all depends how you want to measure it in NATS. Some like to measure oranges, some like to measure apples. They are both different things.

On one hand, you could measure the number of days attended and find that some people do attend more days than others (Mon-Fri workers first, then non 24 hour units, then H24 units). On the other hand, the true measure that NATS uses is the number of hours worked and we are all contracted to do the same over the year regardless of the number of days we have to personally attend to cover that.

Not really related but one thing that NATS seems to do to enhance things for some shift workers is to give 110% pay to those who are always liable for night shifts (e.g certain supervisory grades at Swanwick, and Oceanic Controllers, to name a couple).

[Bright-Ling]

I wish I'd had £100 for every time I've declined the offer of a posting to the college

So how much would you have, £200??!!??

Get down there and get yrself back up to ATCO deux for yr pension.

[vintage ATCO]

Yes. Whatever you need to do to enhance your pension, do it.

[WhatUMean]

is the ATCO roster (let's say at NATS unit where the 6/4 pattern is in place) a steady 6/4 throughout the year so that you can predict what you going to be doing at any time, or is it still subject to availability / operational needs / last minute changes (apart from overtime or voluntary reshifting ?)

thanks

Ivor


Not always, it is pretty much 6 and 4, but where it varies at some is that instead of say MMAANNERRR (E being a day off but the morning you get home from nightshift) you might Work MMAADDRRRR so there you can still plan the days you be off, but then it may go onto MMAARDDRRR so technically on a D shift when you would have been coming home from a nightshift, this can throw the plannin out of thinking you were off because of the normal MMAANNERRR.

Its on the whole a generally good shift pattern, but everyone has there favourites being either mornings or afternoons, some strange people even prefer nights over days!!! Strange lot!

[jangler909]

Here's a bit different roster; we have no standard pattern (35 hours / week). Benefits: you'll get days off when needed/requested (well in advance), easy to change shifts with colleagues, one can do extra hours and use them later as off days (e.g. to extend holidays)...

M: 0530-1230
D: 1130-1830
E: 1800-0115

DDEEDDMxxxEEDMDMMExxx

another example:

EEDMxxxEEDDMxxxxDDEDM

or perhaps even:

xxxxDEDMEDDMMxEEDMxxx

[Gonzo]

jangler909,

Going from E to D, you finish at 0115 and then back into work that same morning at 1130?

[badnerk]

Over on this side of the pond we work a 36 hour work week. Our schedules are produced every 56 days and we work 34 of the 56 days (plus overtime days).
We work 5/3(on/off) six times and 4/4 once OR (6/3 5/4 6/4) x2 OR (6/3 6/3 5/5) x2.
We normally work compressed work weeks. My last cycle was:

DAY
1 1345-2215
2 0815-1645
3 0530-1400
4 0000-0830 (starts 10 hours after end of day 3 shift)
5 2200-0630

Then off for days 6, 7 and 8.

Occasionally we get scheduled blocks of day shifts or evening shifts, but in my unit we never get blocks of midnight shifts.

Interesting to see all of the variation in schedules out there.

[jangler909]

"Going from E to D, you finish at 0115 and then back into work that same morning at 1130?"

Exactly. Regulations say we need to have at least 9 hours break between shifts, and that equals to 10h15min - haven't got any problems with that...

[garp]

"Going from E to D, you finish at 0115 and then back into work that same morning at 1130?"

Exactly. Regulations say we need to have at least 9 hours break between shifts, and that equals to 10h15min - haven't got any problems with that...
Wait till you're 40 iso 26, than we'll talk again.

[Gonzo]

Jangler909,

We have a minimum of 12 hours between shifts...and even that is pushing it sometimes to get decent rest, especially if we finish an afternoon at 2200 and then back in for 1000 the next morning.