Maastricht [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

126,7

17th Dec 2007, 22:17

I see on their website that they're employing ATCOS from Eurocontrol member states only. What if you were employed by a Eurocontrol member state but don't carry the passport? I did send them an email to ask, but haven't heard anything as yet.

TrafficTraffic

17th Dec 2007, 22:55

Thats a Bloody long boat trip

....must have taken a wrong turn near Alicante....

Lon Check Your PM's

Eurocontrol may well be surprised with the large number of applicants they receive.

And for those of you needing it - I know Euronator has a room (albeit smelling slightly of smoke) for you to rent (at a reasonable rate no doubt) whilst being assaulted on your Brussels Sectors Training course.....

They really are the *best controllers in the world the Brussels boys and girls working some of the busiest and most complex airspace around.

TT

*They told me so

northernmonkey1261

18th Dec 2007, 05:12

Hi Lon

What's the rumour with the Manchester disappointments?
All gossip is good gossip.
Too many applicants not enough places? Or more political?

Ta

west atc

18th Dec 2007, 05:22

I applied early on in the piece and was asked to prove that I was an EU national as I am from Oz. I sent back proof and have had my information checked through a guy I work with that is well known to Eurocontrol.

Does anyone know if they are more likely to select people that already live in the EU or if it will be experience/merit based? I am pretty keen to move to Eurocontrol and am getting a bit edgy.

On a different note I am a keen golfer and am wondering if anyone can tell me what the new Maastricht International course is like.

TrafficTraffic

18th Dec 2007, 07:21

wondering if anyone can tell me what the new Maastricht International course is like

Expensive and far from international

TT

west atc

18th Dec 2007, 07:47

I think its called "international" because it crosses the border. I was wondering if it was a good quality course.
Does anyone have any idea of how many applicants there has been?

126,7

18th Dec 2007, 08:00

Here is their answer: :{

I confirm that you have to have a citizenship of one of our Member States to be selected for one of our post.

Best regards,

Irène Piraino
DHA/Info Centre
Directorate of Human Resources and Administration
Tel: +32 2 729.50.50
Fax: +32 2 729.90.69

bruman

18th Dec 2007, 11:01

There are around 20 application from Belgocontrol ATCOs.
We are especially impatient for the result, because Eurocontrol has a what they call a gentlemen agreement :{ with Belgocontrol although they have never heard of the "Bosman" arrest ;).
We earn the same money as the guys from Maastricht but we have to pay 50% taxes on it. This is one of the reasons why we all applied for the job in Maastricht. We are used to work the Brussels sectors though it is the lower part of it, but the Brussels East is one of the most dense and complex in Europe, and we work already in close coordination with Maastricht.

west atc

19th Dec 2007, 07:09

What sort of experience do the applicants from Belgium have?

I am wondering if anything will be found out by the end of this week or if it won't be until after the new year. It sounds like there has been a fair few applications which won't please the aussies who were hoping that the positions wouldn't be filled by EU applications so it might be open to non-EU applications eventually.

Does anyone know how many positions will be filled? Will they take as many as they can that are deemed suitable or is there a limited number of places?

I remember hearing something about 8 positions but don't know how true this is. It must be a good place to work if there are so many applications. :{

millerman

19th Dec 2007, 10:37

There are 10 places vacant and the last I heard there were 194 applicants:eek:
Good luck :ok:

andrijander

19th Dec 2007, 13:26

Roger on the 10 positions open, same thing I heard.

Seems like the figured out that's the magic number of conversions we can train before our own ab-initios overflow the ops-room. We need that many people, but we only have that many consoles to get people to train on (an educated guess but 3 trainees per team at 6 teams per sector makes 18 students at a time per sector group and that's a lot of people being coached ergo lots of coaches also needed...)

A.

levelD

19th Dec 2007, 14:34

Come on Euronator give us those numbers:ok:

The Euronator

19th Dec 2007, 15:15

LevelD

I can confirm 10 Conversion Positions with 2 staggered intakes (ie 6 & 4).
1st intake will begin in Maastricht in 3rd week in March 2008. The 2nd intake will commence in 2nd week in July 2008.

I believe that interviews will start as early as 2nd week in January to allow as much time for people to give notice.

There has been a rush of applicants close to deadline & Millermans information is very very close to the mark.

As andrijander described this will be the only shot for Conversion Controllers as the process to increase Students in the Luxembourg courses has already commenced. The increased intakes are due to arrive late 2008/ early 2009.
They will then be only focusing on training Student Air Traffic Controllers.
The maximum capacity to train controllers in the OPS room will be reached in 2009. Therefore there will be No Conversion Courses after these.

West ATC, I doubt with the amount of applicants that they will open up to Non-EU nationals.

bruman

19th Dec 2007, 21:10

West Atc is wondering what sort of experience we as Belgiums have?!

I think we are the closed Atcos that fit the profile because we work alread in close coordination and cooperations with maastricht,
for exemple: inbound-outbound ebbr
inbound- outbound eddk, eddl etc
inbound-outbound eham fir
inbound-outbound ellx tma
slow climb from london tma
etc etc....
plus when Maastricht has a overload we get all there traffic.

We allready now the airspace.

It is sometimes said that the brussels east sectors (up fl245) is more difficult then maastricht Brussels sectors because we have so litlle airspace, especially when our military are active, and so mutch traffic.

It is not because Sabena went bankrupt that we dont have any traffic anymore. Our traffic figures shows that it is already as busy and somethimes more then during Sabena.:D

But the main reason that we belgians applied for the position is money.
They have net what we have gross!!!

northernmonkey1261

19th Dec 2007, 21:50

I'm sure the bosses in Maastricht and Brussels have had a conversation about how many controllers they are allowed to take, as taking too many would break the Brussels centre and thus make the service into and out of the Maastricht sectors suffer too.
Politics.

jangler909

20th Dec 2007, 02:48

Euronator, do you have any information if they are possibly increasing the ab-initio age limit in the near future? At this age (26) I still wouldn't mind taking the full training from the very beginning...

The Euronator

20th Dec 2007, 05:10

jangler909,

I doubt the age limit for Abinitio/Student Controllers will increase. Maastricht does a thorough review of all courses after completion & assesses with Human Factor experts the reasoning behind pass or fail rates.

I believe that age is one of these determining factors & therefore I think the age restriction will stay as it is.

millerman

20th Dec 2007, 08:52

BRUMAN

I agree with all (well most :) ) you say about the advantages you have already working the Belgian airspace - but what you have to remember is that there are also 2 other sector groups (in different countries) that you could be trained on! They have their own complexities and are just as busy - so don't play the Belgian card too strongly ;)

The Euronator

20th Dec 2007, 11:36

Millerman,

I agree in normal situations that would be true. All Conversion Controllers are going to the Brussels Sectors.

millerman

20th Dec 2007, 11:48

Ok I stand corrected :) I didn't know that - but they haven't had the best conversion rates in the past!!:E

west atc

20th Dec 2007, 21:16

Bruman,

When I asked about experience levels I was thinking more in terms of years in the job instead of what traffic they have handled.

I'm not into traffic comparisons as all ATC jobs have their own complexities and if you have been in the job for long enough you will know that the number of aircraft on frequency doesn't actually reflect how busy you are.

I am willing to concede that traffic levels in Australia are no where near what they are in Europe but that doesn't mean that there are not times where we have our balls hanging out.

One example is you mentioning that you can take the overflow traffic for Maastricht when they get too busy. This is a very good system and unfortunately doesn't happen in Australia, we just take what we get and have to handle what ever is thrown at us.

Good luck to all applicants. :ok:

bruman

21st Dec 2007, 16:33

Millerman

What do you mean when you say that THEY never had the best conversion rates; the guys coming from Belgocontrol or all the people who started their conversion a the brussels sector.

West atc

The majority of the Atcos from Brussels have more then 3 years experience, and before they all worked for 3 to 4 years on the twr mostly on the Brussels twr. and we all started working as a assistant controller also for about 4 years.:ok::D

Maastricht and Belgocontrol have a gentleman agreement not to take any controllers from Brussels. So our managment seems to be convinced that Maastricht will not take any applicants from brussels. we hope the opposite.
But honestly I think that Maastricht will send an invitation for an interview to a few of us, just to be polite and reject the rest.
And after the interview they can reject the others.

When are read that there are allmost 200 applicants for 10 places, then it will be a hard competition.
Good luck to all!!! all will let you all know what me result will be.

millerman

22nd Dec 2007, 04:59

Bruman

I was referring to the conversion(s) from Belgocontrol but it was made in a lighthearted way!

andrepilota

22nd Dec 2007, 17:00

Good to know that ALL conversions are going to the brussels sector........:uhoh:

i'm in the hannover and I was hoping for some sort of relief,but I guess it's not going to happen soon.:{

f..k it,there'll be plenty of sweat then to get some summer leave....:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:: mad::mad:

levelD

22nd Dec 2007, 18:04

Wherever they would go - but indeed it will be the Brussels sectors - they could never be counted on for next year's summer leave.Conversions take less time to qualify , when they do , but they could never be ready for the summer whrn starting end of march:cool:

andrepilota

22nd Dec 2007, 19:28

i just meant in general....we'll never get 10 new people not even for 2012 if it goes on like that......:\

The Euronator

23rd Dec 2007, 16:38

andrepilota

we'll never get 10 new people not even for 2012 if it goes on like that......

Try again. The Students that were planned for the Brussels sectors are arriving on your door in March. You will have a full compliment of abinitios for at least the next 2 if not 3 courses. That is 18 students before the middle of 2009..happy training:)

Lon More

23rd Dec 2007, 22:14

my 2 cents worth. Definitely a one off thing. The success rate of thelast conversion course, some 5 or 6 years ago, was very disappointing. Too much of , "But we did it differently at ...." , coupled with some resentment because the OTJ trainer was often younger than the trainee did not make for an easy transition. The decision afterwards was, "Never, ever again." But times change.

I might consider coming back, but could they afford me? :p

TrafficTraffic

24th Dec 2007, 02:07

:{:{:{ Lon - wasnt I the last conversion course? :{:{:{

I didnt mean to be disappointing.........

TT

Oh hold on Euronator was the last conversion course - now I see what you mean - yes very very disappointing :=

ive348

24th Dec 2007, 23:21

this will be the only shot for Conversion Controllers as the process to increase Students in the Luxembourg courses has already commenced. The increased intakes are due to arrive late 2008/ early 2009.
They will then be only focusing on training Student Air Traffic Controllers.
The maximum capacity to train controllers in the OPS room will be reached in 2009. Therefore there will be No Conversion Courses after these
That is, until they realise that the new roster requires more controllers than they can train from the ab-initio groups (50% failure, etc..)
As well, it's one thing to be looking to increase the ab-initio intake, but the right people have to apply. It's no use filling ab-initio groups with sub-standard applicants, just to increase the intake
Anyway, anybody with a license and willing to go through the full training again could always apply as well. One lady currently in training did just that and she will make a great addition to the team!
Lon, you're always welcome to give it a go!:)
TT, eagerly awaiting your return:ok:

Lon More

25th Dec 2007, 12:15

the new roster requires more controllers than they can train from the ab-initio groups
Ah, but then they can blame the problems with the new roster on the Ops. Room ( Delays in training, failure rates)
Will the new broom sweep clean? Less deadwood in the Belle Étage? I doubt it somehow You lot deserve better.
Merry Christmas and a safe New Year
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/Badyin/Christmas%20Cards/looney_tunes-AGOL.gif

The Euronator

29th Dec 2007, 13:55

That is, until they realise that the new roster requires more controllers than they can train from the ab-initio groups (50% failure, etc..)

Been looked at & factored in already. Both roster proposals were assessed on the training requirements needed to get them implemented.

As well, it's one thing to be looking to increase the ab-initio intake, but the right people have to apply. It's no use filling ab-initio groups with sub-standard applicants, just to increase the intake

Totally agree, hopefully the selection process will filter sub-standard applicants but as all ATS Facilities face, it is not an exact science.

Anyway, anybody with a license and willing to go through the full training again could always apply as well

Only if they are 25yo or below !!!!

Interviews,

These start on the 7th January. You should start to be notified from now onwards.

eagleflyer

29th Dec 2007, 15:45

...you can try in Germany. As far as I know DFS is starting to look for controllers....and they should be desperate, looking at all the old faces around me!:rolleyes: Took quite a while for them to recognize they have a staff problem.