Dubai ATC

[100m down/10,000m up]

Yesterday I had a very rude reply from a Dubai controller when, after committing to an alternate, I decided to land at the destination (rapid increase in visibility). Are they usually like that or did an overfrustrated, undersexed resident of heavenly Dubai just have a bad day?

[throw a dyce]

As a controller in the UK I have seen this situation before.Aircraft divert due to the Vis below Cat 1 limits and then the vis increases.I have told the pilot the improved vis,but they always continue to divert.They must be on diversion fuel by then.Quite often the RVR has gone down again,so if they got caught up in any more holding,it could develop into an emergency situation with fuel shortage.
Not condoning rude R/t which is always unprofessional.

[Fox3snapshot]

Their transmissions should exude joy, love and goodwill with the new salary they will be getting in January! :E

Now here in UAE control on the other hand....:}

[TheFalcon]

No mate,its not the lack of sex or the frustrating Dubai road traffic which compels Dubai controllers to blurt out rude replies, its moronic pilots who think they are the only ones flying on the day and make requests regardless whether they are flying into a grass airfield or a major airport. By your posting it seems you don't have any idea of the traffic levels here nor how difficult it is to adhere to impromptu requests in such a complicated piece of airspace. I am still wondering though what your whole story is all about but I bet you had quite a lovely time going around the Dubai TMA before deciding to land.

[100m down/10,000m up]

Hi Falcon

Here are the facts and you tell me what you think:

1 On first contact with UAE, after Muscat, I say it is very likely we are diverting to Fujeirah but will come back shortly with final decison. We have just passed Pasov at FL 270 and we are descending to FL 200. Shortly thereafter we are given a heading to fly and slow down to 250 kts because ATC wants us to "fly as slow as possible". I must stress the frequency was not very busy. Time: 03:25Z Sunday morning.

2. No information about visibility and/or RVR from the controllers (is this normal in UAE FIR?). We are monitoring ATIS and heading roughly towards Bubin. Visibility is increasing very rapidly, from 200m to 400m, than 800m. As soon as we hear 800m, we say we are not diverting but continuing to Dubai. The response:"I wish you would make up your mind quicker!" We are now 15 miles southwest of Bubin.

3. Handed over to approach, a lady controller, a pleasure to work with.

You tell me what I did wrong and what should I do next time to keep you guys polite!

[RustyNail]

Sounds like the grumpy UAE controller needed a big hug :E

Thankfully not all controllers are like that, we are here to assist you in any way possible.

[Tin-Bullet]

100m down/10,000m up (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=188040);


3. Handed over to approach, a lady controller, a pleasure to work with.


And you have not seen her......;)

Cos I'm sure by the time you would have landed, you would have forgot all about your 'good morning call' from 'DXB ARR'...(as stated by you...r u sure? it was DXB or was it UAE East)...:p

[Neptune262]

Sounds like you were working UAE East controller from Abu Dhabi and not a Dubai controller at that level - until you spoke to the nice lady of course :E

[CuitoCuanavale]

100M Down/10000M Up, you did nothing wrong, as far as decisiveness is concerned, from what you wrote, I would say you pretty much fulfilled the dictionary description of the word.

The person concerned is I assure you very much in the minority in ATC circles and is probably someone who needs a change of underwear every time they happen upon their own shadow.

Water off a ducks back mate!

[Fox3snapshot]

Waz'nt me! I was at the other end of the building using the microwave that management don't believe controllers are adult enough to have in their crew room!

The time 0325Z is very important as the controller would have been at work for 1 hour already, and with no fridge, coffee machine or microwave it goes without saying that he will be a grumpy little camper!

:sad:

[Chaos Controller]

I was at the other end of the building using the microwave that management don't believe controllers are adult enough to have in their crew room!

At least management has gotten something right :p

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Phew! It wasn't me either. You were working with UAE East by the sounds of it which is done from the Abu Dhabi Carrefour Parking lot.

Not condoning rudeness on the frequency but everyone has bad days and maybe he was having one of those. Any chance of a nationality just so we can narrow down who it was. Not for any operational reason but just so we can give them some stick :E

Ditto Foxys comment, that if we were considered adult enough to have a fridge and a microwave in our zip code then we may be well fed and well caffiened so we may not be quite so grumpy. (Also if we were on the money Dubai was on we may be a little happier too but thats for another thread).

P.S We aren't considered worthy of having access to any ATIS's in UAE ACC so no we can't offer you any RVR info. I personally will call regularly to the relvant airport to chase up RVRs so as to keep pilots up to date but that is obviously workload permitting.

[100m down/10,000m up]

AirNoServicesAustralia

I am afraid it was an Aussie!

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

If so, a little birdy tells me there is more to the story than is being let on.
Maybe it would be prudent to review the chain of events carefully and then retell the story. Maybe on reflection you may recall there may have been a holding stack at BUBIN, and even though frequency congestion wise they may have sounded quiet, due to the fog and general holding they were far from that.

Again it was not me, but just want to see if I can jog your memory.

Cheers.

[TheFalcon]

100m down/10000m up my late reply and I gladly say it wasn't Dubai but having said that Dubai controllers aren't totally innocent of rude comments either and I agree its unwarranted and unprofessional. In this case I think it was early morning blues and lack of awareness of the situation in which you were in. Its the same from our side when you get one pilot who is simply cooperative and willing to do what is necessary and another who is a total pr**k and makes your life miserable for the duration of the service given. So I say don't take it personal its just a matter of individual personalities.

It could also be that as Fox3snapshot quite rightly states that UAE is getting a smaller pay rise which makes them blurt out rude statements!!
(sorry fox3 cudn't resist this one!:})

[SINGAPURCANAC]

Since nobody from AUS has accepted mistake, I would do it.
I DID IT! :ok:

[Rule3]

We are all waiting with baited breathe for your answer. If this was the aircraft concerned, then the true story will be revealed and there will be a totally different light shed on the situation. Believe me, there will be many people eating humble pie for their totally misinformed opinions, based on what our complainant had to say. I am one of 3 people involved in this event, and it won't just be my recollection of the event. The tapes are also available.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Regardless of who said what in this specific case, I am fully in support of all pilots putting in a report if they feel they have been treated in a way they don't feel is acceptable. Everything said and done is recorded, and as such it can be easily looked into. I have personally followed up complaints from Emirates on a number of occasions. Sometimes it was found the ATCO was in the right other times not, and when its found that they were not remedial action was taken.

If it really bothers you, report it. If you don't want to go into print, do as used to be done in the old days. Get the phone number of the centre and call up on arrival and talk about it. You may find the explanation given suffices.

[sodukonerd]

Baaaa.....are there any kiwis who work OMAA. I bet not many foreigners can spot the difference in accent.:ok:

Uh oh....."INCOMING!!!":rolleyes:

[Fox3snapshot]

Ahhhh...Houston, we have a situation in aisle three! :uhoh:

[Rule3]

100m down / 10,000m up we are waiting for your response.

[CuitoCuanavale]

Whether there is a preamble or the somewhat vetted ‘more than meets the eye’ to this rather minor incident, there is no relevance.

The point made was professional conduct on frequency, any history, personality clashes etc, etc is a side bar issue……shouldn’t affect the ATC’s response in any way.

If indeed there was some previous coaxing/goading thrown out there by this Up/Down fellow, or even on the day concerned…..well then in all honesty, the controller was a bit of a tit to walk into it or partake in it.

[UriahHeep]

Agreed CC, well said. Any lead-ups have no relevance at all.

Rudeness, unless it precipitated a major occurance should really just have been resolved with a telephone call as someone stated earlier.

The temptation to reveal your true fealings is I must admit as an ATC, often very difficult to keep in check, especially if there is any past history etc............

The test of ones professionalism is being able to gloss over those temptations and just get on with the job. Quite unfortunately, everytime you do succumb, irrespective of any level of mitigation, there is no plausible exscuse...................

[100m down/10,000m up]

AirNoServicesAustralia

Delay was due to lack of Internet.

I was not aware of any holding over Bubin. I was given a heading and speed to fly and as soon as it became obvious that visibility was rapidly increasing, told the controller that I was going to DXB.

The controller's reaction was just unprofessional, that's all, it doesn't need to be taken any further.

Five months ago I heard, on the same frequency, a REALLY pissed off controller crapping on 4-5 pilots for not reporting level on the initial contact. He was 100% right, of course, but his tone was just plain rude. I still think you guys down there should get laid more often!

[100m down/10,000m up]

Will do, next time I am in The Lifestyle City. Thanks!

[trailblazer]

Five months ago I heard, on the same frequency, a REALLY pissed off controller crapping on 4-5 pilots for not reporting level on the initial contact. He was 100% right, of course, but his tone was just plain rude. I still think you guys down there should get laid more often! Anyone who has ever met an Australian knows that the last part can be a bit
of a problem. The women in the UAE probably do have some standards, even the ones
with eastern european or east asian passports who frequent the local bars and clubs:eek:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Can't we all do with getting laid more often. Still to meet a man that gets laid too often. ;)

Whatever the situation that occurred, the best situation for all parties is for a friendly phone call to occur after landing. Everytime I have had this occur, a mutual understanding of the situation has been able to be reached and both sides have learned from the experience about the other parties job and particular situation.

Now that I know that Costa deliver Large Latte extra shot of Espresso to the centre I promise that there will be one happy well laid Aussie on shift.

Sorry Fox, I can't vouch for your condition of Laidness :p

[Rule3]

If we can establish whether the aircraft concerned was MKA aka Kruger, then a full and totally detailed response will be posted. Over to you Mr. Up/Down.

[100m down/10,000m up]

Rule3

It was a MK. As I said earlier to The Falcon:"You tell me what I did wrong and what should I do next time to keep you guys polite!
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Thanks

[UriahHeep]

UD, this soap opera wally (Rule3) doesn’t get it and would appear, doesn’t even need the line baited, have a little fun with him.

[100m down/10,000m up]

UrHe
I have dived with sharks too!

[UriahHeep]

Did mine with a tour company in a mega cage. So exciting, but not all that impressive. Really wanted to do sand-bank tagging, but that is for the experienced boys.

What I did enjoy, especially as they are so sought after by many Islanders, is tagging sea turtles and then following their progress (or not) on the nett......................