What Ever Happened to BCT at Kemble

[flybuddy]

I purchased a 10 hour block of AOC flight time from BCT at Kemble and have attempted to utilise them over a year or so and every time I called for a booking I was informed there was no aircraft or pilot availability. I only managed to use 1.4 hours of this time at the time of original block purchase. The tower at Kemble now informs me they are no longer operating.
Does anyone out there no what has happened, what I can do etc. Any advice would be most appreciated. In summary I am owed in excess of £1,200.

[Localiser Green]

How did you pay the £1,200 (i.e. payment method)?

[niknak]

If you paid with a credit card, your card provider is responsible for refunding you, get in touch with them immediately - you'll need to provide evidence, i.e reciepts if you still have them.
If you didn't pay by credit card I'm afraid there's every likelyhood that you've lost the lot.

It's no comfort to you, but this is yet another timely reminder that no one should pay up front for "block hours", no matter how attractive the deal may appear to be at the time, organisations who offer this facility are often scratching the surface to survive and usually cannot be relied upon.

[flybuddy]

By cheque unfortunately. I normally pay by CCard but not this time.

I am attempting to locate who owes me the time/money but have made little progress. Companies house say they are still up and running and the aircraft I last flew 'G-OZOO' a Cessna 172 is still registered to BCT but the CAA say it is pending a potential owner change.

I cannot believe people can be so evil.

Has anyone heard of Captain Mathew Litten. He was the Chief Pilot who agreed the rate of £140 per hour and who I paid £1,400 for 10 hours.

[Kit d'Rection KG]

Sadly, it's because of people like you that these folk get away with it. Never mind the latest incarnations, I hope that everyone has heard of 'Captain' Simon Donaghue. I'm genuinely astonished at his progress since his days at Leavesden.

Note: Unless a holder of a Queen's commission, titles of rank are meaningless outside the immediate professional sphere. I think you mean you're looking for Mathew Litten.

Funnily enough, there's a Mathew Litten who's 'Chief Pilot' (a legend... in his own imagination, probably) at LAW Aviation, based at Kemble, according to

http://www.lawaviation.aero/home.html

[Julian Hensey]

Who did you make the cheque payable to?

That will tell you who the contract is with...

Once you establish that, then couple of options. Final letter than off to the county court to issue claim. If it is a company you can issue a winding up order. That tends to get things moving... If it is an individual than you can also either get a judgment against them or make them bankrupt.

However, in all these cases it is a matter of working out whether the person can actually pay you because you do have to pay fees to the court to get things moving.

But the main thing is who the cheque was made out to....

[flybuddy]

The cheque was made out to BCT Aviation Kemble, I note there are some threads about BCT offering ab initio commercial training about the same time in early 2005, so they did exist!

The vat invoice clearly shows it was a company with a number although companies house and trading standards have no record of the number on the invoice.

Not sure what to do.

Customs and excise are quite interested too!

[hobbit1983]

Yes - they certainly did use to exist, flew with them about this time last year for 3 flights. Eventually went to OSFC instead as there was a better deal on hours.

Flew G-OZOO....the thing I remember about that aircraft was that it's transponder panel unit slid backwards out of the panel during a steep turn!

Out of interest, I did a quick Google & came up with this, although I'm not sure it will be of any use to you, it does have a reference number listed;

http://www.creditgate.com/search/search.aspx?AP=N&CompanyID=B5840398&CompanyType=N&BS=1&BT=Basic%20Non-Limited

[S-Works]

Out of interest what are you referring to as AOC flight time? Air taxi or self fly rental?

[LysanderV8]

It appears from quick searches I have made that BCT Aviation Kemble Ltd is a dormant company. Matthew Litton left the Board on 16 April 2007. It is owned jointly by a Maureen Campbell and a Robert Brown, although both of them resigned as Directors on 21 March 2007. Sole remaining Director is Pawl Shanley.They had a CCJ judgement made against them in Bristol on 4 September 2007 for £2550.

Pawl Shanley registered Trans International Airways Ltd on 9 August 2006, with fellow Director Jane Shanley. This apparently trades from Building 9 at Kemble Airfield.

Interestingly, Robert Brown is also co-owner, but not a Director, of BCT Aviation Maintenance based at Cardiff Airport. This company is active. The other co-owner is a Mr R J Campbell. No idea if he is a relation of Maureen Campbell.

Further, Robert Brown started a new company on 27 April 2007 called Light Aircraft Leasing Ltd, based at his home, which is 116 Boughton Lane, Clowne, Chesterfield, Derbyshire, S43 4QF. Fellow Director is a Desmond White of Bristol.

He also registered a further company on 27 April 2007 called Cardiff Aviation Engineering Ltd. He is Director and Secretary, and a Christopher Dove of Surrey is also a Director.

Although I hold out little hope for the return of your money by writing or trying court action, you may at least be able to get hold of somebody, who may yet have something of their conscience left if you approach them personally. Guilt can be a powerful force.

Good luck !!

Lysander

[Cuillin]

Small Claims Court sounds like the way to go.

Any claims below a certain amount (£5000?) can be made, effectively, risk free.

If you lost (highly unlikely if you put forward a clear, well-researched, claim) then there is no risk or cost to you.

It will only cost you a nominal amount to register the claim and any expenses involved if you wish to attend. Choose a County Court near to yourself so you don't have to travel too far. Also makes it more difficult for the defending party to attend the court.

Put your claim paperwork in as late as possible with respect to the closing date for submission - gives the defendant less time to submit his defence. The defendant must see anything you submit before he defends himself.
A very simple procedure - just requires a bit of effort.
You may not see your money again but you will get the pleasure of a County Court Judgement (CCJ) against him. This makes life more difficult for him in respect of future business credit, mortgages etc.

Myself and a couple of partners were taken to the Small Claims Court in respect of a PFA aircraft we sold some w****r. He flew it for 70 hour over 4 months then decided there was something wrong with it. Tried to sue us for just under £5k (£11.5k aircraft). We prepared well, stated the facts and the case got thrown out. The aircraft, needless to say, was in pretty good nick (for a 51-year-old aircraft) and had a brand new Permit when we sold it to him.

The Small Claims Court works very well and allows you to make a claim at no risk.

Whether you see your money again is another question.

[Julian Hensey]

Just one word of advice - I have seen this before.

Sometimes a company and a name can be two different things. I have seen "John Doe" trading as Bloggit tools, and then "John Doe" as a director of Bloggit tools Ltd. What happens is that "John Doe" waits for people to write cheques and if they leave out the Ltd he puts it into a personal "trade as" account. Usually the accounts are held at different banks so a bank doesn't get suspicious.

Anyway you could certainly start winding up proceedings on the dormant company and that might promote Companies House to do some further investigation - all of the directors will have their home addresses usually on companies house so you can write there, but as one friend says:

"Always write to the wives of directors - why, because wives probably know little of what their husbands are up to and they tend to get better results, and always feel obliged usually to reply.... "

A funny tip, but he said it worked...

[IanSeager]

See http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=527054#527054
Ian

[BlueRobin]

Has anyone actually managed to get money back through their credit card when a flying school goes bankrupt?

It's theoretically feasible but is the above advice only theoretical?

[Flyin'Dutch']

I purchased a 10 hour block of AOC flight time from BCT at Kemble and have attempted to utilise them over a year or so and every time I called for a booking I was informed there was no aircraft or pilot availability. I only managed to use 1.4 hours of this time at the time of original block purchase.

Sorry to read you may have lost that money but would you not have wanted some of it back when they obviously could not deliver the goods over the past year?

[charliegolf]

When they (as they always do) emerge as another company, book 3 'new' hours, or, even better, their weekend minimum hours. Fly off your hours, leave it overnight to let the battery run down at a convenient airfield for you, and tell them where it is and that it isn't working anymore.

I suggest this or similar, because I couldn't countenance your going along and sawing the props off all their planes.

CG

[Fright Level]

Choose a County Court near to yourself so you don't have to travel too far. Also makes it more difficult for the defending party to attend the court.

By default you can have the case heard in a court nearest to your address, you don't have to choose the court at the outset. In fact you can now lodge a small claims court case online (Northampton handle this, but move to your local County Court for any hearing). Full details at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

[rans6andrew]

My partner rang the BCT number this afternoon and spoke to Pawl, he confirmed that the business is going down the pan, he also said that it would have been nice had they told him as he used to instruct for them. Despite this comment he did say that if they owe money (to my partner's company) he would be the point of contact. He is on their phone some of the time and may be able to help/point you in the right direction.

No promises though, and good luck.

[thatscaptaintou]

According to the Kemble Airport website, BCT have changed to Trans-International Airways, a new charter flight service. When you try the website link (www.trans-internationalairways.com (http://www.trans-internationalairways.com)) it takes you to a redundant BCT link.

[tmmorris]

Funnily enough I saw an ex-BCT aircraft at, I think, PFT at Kidlington a year or so ago. So they must have sold off their ac before becoming 'dormant'.

Tim

[Kit d'Rection KG]

Trans-International Airways

Oh dear, I've wet myself again.

:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[flybuddy]

Air taxi. I hired a block of 10 hours at £140 per hour to use for aerial photography on nice days.

[flybuddy]

Yes, I constantly requested either to fly or to have a refund of the unused portion of the block paid for.

[flybuddy]

Hi, I spoke to Paul before my initial thread and he put the phone down when I asked him when the liquidation of BCT had started. He said back in July he had taken over BCT and asked me to send a copy of the invoice for payment which I did and he sais now he new nothing about it and now sais BCT was never owned/operated by him and he too has lost a lot of money and did not get the training he paid for. Can anyone confirm he is a CPL with an instructor rating because in Feb last year he was the Ops mng at BCT and was studying for his PPL!

[flybuddy]

Yes I found this too. I also spoke to Paul at the same BCT tel land line number operating from the same exact building at Kemble that BCT frequented both last year and this, after their move from the Delta Jets side of the airfield a while ago.

It would appear it is easy to fund a new airline if you steal other peoples money!

[flybuddy]

One of their aircraft G-Zoo I think is still owned by BCT according to the CAA but is potentially going through an owner change. probably Paul at Trans International Airways !

[flybuddy]

Many thanks for your hard work on my behalf..

I will try something. Not sure what though. I will probably seek legal advice and go to court. I might try what you suggest and make contact with the original BCT owner in the hope that they have some integrity. I would assume that who ever owned/cashed my cheque in May 05 owes me the money or services to that end.

[airborne_artist]

You paid £1400 for 10 hours, and had about £200 value out of it, so they owe you £1,200. You can take them to the Small Claims Court, win, and get judgement, but that won't get you the money. Enforcing the judgement will cost you more money, and still may get you nothing if there are no assets.

My advice would be to move on unless you are sure that the entity against which you can get a judgement really has the liquid assets to meet the award. I once spent three months chasing a £10,000 debt. It would have been cheaper to have left it, and moved on, as I could have made more money in the time I spent chasing it than I finally won. For £1200 I'd just spend the next few years telling all you meet in aviation circles who it was that ripped you off. What goes around, comes around, I find.

If they do have the assets, then go for them. Once you have the judgement, transfer it to the High Court, and get their bailiffs onto it. They won't stop at anything short of a 12 bore, and the costs mount up fast. It could cost them another £1,500 in enforcement, on top of your debt :D

[Fright Level]

Once you have the judgement, transfer it to the High Court, and get their bailiffs onto it. They won't stop at anything short of a 12 bore, and the costs mount up fast. It could cost them another £1,500 in enforcement, on top of your debt

Not true for small claims (up to £5k from memory). I just had a judgement for £1,200 against someone. It cost £55 to issue the warrant and have the county court bailiffs go round.

For the amount involved, I would certainly take a punt on a small claims action. Your costs are likely no more than £200 for claim, judgment & warrant. It won't go near a High Court.

[jodphur]

Pawl Shanley has moved the operation to The Flying Club Kemble, apparantly he is a director of the new venture which had a champagne launch on the 13th. You could try there he was collecting debts for BCT so there must be some money about.

[llanfairpg]

You are being given some duff advice here(as per usual)

You cannot opt to have the CC case heard near where you live it is heard at the court nearest the defendant, with joint agreement it can be possible heard at an agreed mid point (wont happen) it will be Bristol.

You can use moneyclaim online but be careful because the description of the claim is limited to a set number of words You need to be sure who you are taking to court, the company or the individual.Cases can be thrown out if you do not get the wording correct

Several people have mentioned getting the company would up--dont bother you will probably end up getting a penny in the pound, always try and get your money first. You can bet your botttom dollar they will owe customs and inland revenue too and they are preferential creditors.

You can only be succesful with a CC action if you get the money. If the company or individual have no money--guess what?

limited companies are just that, limited liabillity

[Johnm]

Searching Pawl Shanley on Google turns out to be a surreal experience:uhoh:

[flybuddy]

Hi, thanks. As Pawl Shanley put the tel down on me when I began to ask him questions about my money and BCT being wound up, I do not think he is likely to listen to me or offer any repayment of my money. You say he was flashing cash at a new openeing of a business, what a cheek!

I have since discovered that an instructor friend is still trying to get paid for hours worked a while ago. He alaso asked Pawl last week if he could verify his working period at BCT Kemble for a job application and Pawl said he would not do this for him, what an ass! Pawl also said his best bet was to track down Captain Mathew Litten, but when he does let him know as the police are looking for him for money he has stollen from BCT. He is either slandering another pilot or a bit of an ass himself. Can anyone shed light on this. I still do not know what to do regarding my owed £1,200 from BCT where a man called Pawl Shanley said he was running the business but puts the phone down and burries his head in the sand while spending money on champaign and new business ventures. I feel very sorry for my instructor friend who helped out BCT/Pawl Shanley's business with his instructing and cannot even get confirmation from him that he worked there for a job application and might not get the job as a result.
Mart.

[flybuddy]

Thank you for your advice. What a hassle.
I hope as the aviation world seems very small and close that this Pawl individual or who ever is ultimately responsible for taking my money fails in there new business venture and gets the legal recourse which is due them. Mart.

[hobbit1983]

It may be worth noting here, for the benefit of other people's searches etc, that Pawl Shanley is now apparently part of a merger of two business at Kemble, namely The Flying Club Kemble and TIA Aviation Flight Training.

If he's there on a regular basis, prehaps you could visit him in person?

[modelman]

Ain't you got any big,ugly mates you could visit him with?

[Mike Cross]

Try clicking on these

http://www.flyer.co.uk/news/newsfeed.php?artnum=679

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/ec43b38a771af037ed2a547a2d30532e/compdetails

FYI
BCT Aviation Kemble Ltd Co No 04599393
County Court Judgement No 7BS07968 for £2550 at Bristol on 4/9/2007
Winding Up Petition issued 19/10/2007
Director & Secretary Pawl John Shanley, 1 Patsyat Cottage, Kemble, GL7 6AY, appointed 28/2/2007. By the sound of your original post he wasn't in post when they took your money.

If you have evidence that they have traded while insolvent you could try for personal liability against the then Directors but realistically I reckon you've lost your money. It's woth noting that insolvent means that the business is unable to pay its debts as they become due, not that it does not have enough assets to cover its liabilities.

For example if it's had 10k of prepayments from customers like you and has used the dosh to pay off creditors it's not insolvent, it only becomes so when it is unable to meet a debt that is due.

[Vertiginous]

A long time ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I shared an office with Pawl Couzens. That's Pawl Shanley to you. This fellow is an idiot: a real-life Clouseau. I was suffering from clinical depression at the time, and his imbecilic behaviour drove me close to suicide.

Here are some examples of his genius, chosen randomly. I will forgive you if you don't believe the stories: they should be fiction, but sadly they are not.

1. I am returning a borrowed car to its owner. Pawl is following me in another car, to give me a lift back to the office. As soon as we get onto the motorway, he overtakes me, drives extraordinarily fast for a few miles, then pulls into the first service area we come to. 'What's up?' I ask. 'Where exactly are we going?' replies Pawl.

2. Pawl sells advertising for the magazine on which I work as a journalist. One day he needs to ring a marketing person at an Italian company. He makes several calls to his Italian contact, unfailingly speaking with an Italian accent throughout. (Pawl is actually from Bath, and speaks with a slight westcountry accent.)

3. Three times, Pawl was asked if he knew the name of some particular person. Once it was an attractive young woman I wanted to introduce myself to; once it was a new neighbour on the industrial estate where we worked; once it was the fellow who came around the estate each day selling pies and pasties. Each time he answered confidently and (I and others subsequently discovered) incorrectly. I have to assume that, presented with a question he couldn't answer, he simply made something up, apparently quite unaware that we would discover the truth sooner rather than later.

So I've read this thread with some interest. My reaction is this.

1. It would not be beyond Pawl to invent a VAT number.

2. He is exactly the sort of person who would find himself the sole director of a dying, debt-ridden company as the other directors run for cover.

3. The idea of starting a new company, transferring the ownership of everything of any value (planes) from a failing company to the new company, closing the old company, then merging the new company with another company, would feel like pure genius to Pawl. In fact, I suspect he had help cooking that one up.

4. I design web-sites. The slickness of a web-site has no bearing on the solidity of a company. All we know about TIA from the web-site is that they/he got a good designer to build the site. Has the designer been paid? The snaps of the executive jet used in the Flash sequence are unquestionably marketing pics from the manufacturer — they are very high quality montages, and were not taken live.

Now I know that £12,000 is a lot of money, but what value do you place on your sanity? You will get nowhere dealing with this twerp. Keep a step removed. Pawl Shanley is so stupid he's dangerous. Your only possible source of satisfaction would be seeing to it that HMRC roast him alive.

As to why he changed his name — frankly I neither know nor care. It happened shortly after I left the company. I noticed when I was reading the magazine I had worked for. Perhaps it was creditor avoidance? Perhaps he just forgot his name one day and made something up.

[airborne_artist]

Perhaps he just forgot his name one day and made something up.

Just brilliant. I think there's a TV series in this, you know.

[Waitingtofly]

Interesting reading, I also know a friend who has had the misfurtune of working in the same office as Shanley/Couzens, I would say with but that would imply he actually did work!

True facts:

Shanley/Couzens was signed in as a Director at the begining of 2007
(Against the wishes of Captain Litten)

All staff at the time handed in their notices and left

Whilst Captain Litten was working away on buisness he was sacked by Shanley over the phone for not letting him know where abouts he was.
Captain Litten was told not to return to the office and on his return found that the locks on the office door had been changed.

This is the truth, if money did go missing from the company then look in a different direction!

[Vertiginous]

‘Shanley/Couzens was signed in as a Director at the beginning of 2007... All staff at the time handed in their notices and left’

Glorious. I laughed out loud when I read that.

No-one who has ever met Pawl would be in any doubt: this guy could not run a company, within any meaningful definition of the word ‘run’.

Someone on this message board recently researched Mr Shanley's home address, and as a last token of wakefulness one night I typed it into one of the mapping web-sites. The result was interesting.

On the face of it, he lives in a cottage immediately opposite the entrance to the aerodrome where he works. But I really don't believe that. My instinct is that he provided whoever-it-is with a falsified address. Stuck for inspiration, he used an address he saw every day as he left to go home: 1 Patsyat Cottage, Kemble; and then he looked up the postcode: GL7 6AY. Even Pawl could do that.

So if anyone feels like calling round, be prepared for a little old lady who doesn't know what's going on.

If anyone has one of those voters' register CDs and some time to kill, they could try looking up anyone called P J Shanley (and perhaps Couzens) within 50 miles of Kemble. A pint of best says you won't find anyone at 1 Patsyat Cottage, Kemble, GL7 6AY.

Delicate question perhaps, Waitingtofly, but what company did Pawl and your friend work for? A publisher called Merricks, by any chance?

[Mike Cross]

The address is that on file at Companies House.

[KembleKid]

I few years back, when I was hunting around for a flying school to do my PPL, I came across Pawl at the Fly! exhibition at Earls Court manning the BCT stand. I vividly remember him telling me about how he'd hired an aircraft in the US and flown himself across the Grand Canyon.

Subsequently, when I started training with BCT, I saw Pawl dressed in an 'aircrew' style white shirt, complete with epaulettes and gold braid.

'Is he an instructor then?' I asked my own instructor. 'No - he's only just got his PPL' came the reply. Hmmm - made the story about the Grand Canyon seem a bit suspect...

[Waitingtofly]

Sadly no it wasn't Merricks.
But I was lead to believe that before he became a Pilot/CPL IR (or not) instructor the he was a top London DJ.

And yes I'm afraid that he does live opposite the airfield!

[ShyTorque]

That's it then. You might have to accept that you probably won't get your money back so buy a very large tin of brake fluid, put in in a bucket with a sponge on top and go round and offer to "wash" his car paintwork for him. That'll cost at least £1200 to put right.

If you need any more advice, please feel free to ask.

[BEagle]

Whilst it well might bring personal gratification, criminal damage is still criminal damage...... So please do not follow ShyTorque's suggestion.

I note that Pawl 'PJ' Shanley is the Company Director of Trans-International Airways, The Flight Centre, D Site, Kemble Airfield, Kemble, Glos GL7 6BA. This purports to be a 'Personal Aircraft Charter' company which claims to 'operate a wide and varied modern fleet of aircraft'....

Odd, is it not, that the company does not feature in the CAA's list of UK AOC holders?

[driver 21]

Hmmm
Are you the same guy who caused them loads of grief using false names and ended up getting your door kicked in by the Special Branch at 0530 one morning ?

[flybuddy]

What is this all about. I think you have replied to the wronge thread.

This thread is concerning £1,200 that was stolen by BCT at Kemble airfield via either Captain Litten who took the money or by Paul Shanley aka many other names apparently, who promised to sort out the hours paid for or a refund as he said he was now running BCT and then decides to put the telephone down when asked to once-and-for-all sort it out, clearly knowing all along that there was never any intention of either providing the service paid for or repaying the unused portion of £1,400.

Who are you exactly ? just to let everyone else out there who has avidly been concerned of my losses, know who you are.

Good idea about Special Branch though. They are on the list of contacts to be made along with Customs and Revenue as my bill included VAT!

M

[flybuddy]

Hi, I now wonder if BCT had an AOC licence when I paid them for the charter hours and when I did fly with them. Perhaps someone out there could check out this as if anyone else out there has lost money with this organisation there may be another route for recourse for others too.

[hobbit1983]

This is the CAA page with the current list; but a quick scan didn't reveal anything about past operations.

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1196&pagetype=90

[jet-son]

It amazing this place isnt it! I have been working away and just come home again and I miss all this! Just to return to the good name of Kemble whats happening there now? Is it a good place to fly in for a day out? Who do you contact there?

[radicalrabit]

Hmm, I tend to agree with this line of action though something more agressive and undertaken by two big lads from Glasgow who you never actually meet springs to mind :E Might cost you a few quid but at least you will get a result and a huge amount of satisfaction.

[flybuddy]

Hi RADICALRABBIT, Thanks for your moral support. I hear what you say but the trouble is it would only make me as bad as them. All I want is one of the individuals who has spent my money to acknowledge it is/was wronge and return my money, no more-no less. I can prove they made it impossible to utilise the hours paid for and that I paid the money etc etc. They will not be able to prove otherwise and one would assume their accounts would have a large question mark inside, wondering where this un-reconciled money came from. If they were operating an AOC charter business, I am led to believe there are very tight records kept for the operation. I do hope this Paul Shanley or what ever his actual name is has discussed his past history to his new partner at Kemble airfield and that anyone flying at this joint venture ask for their money back and go somewhere else to do their flying as all they will be doing is funding criminals.

[radicalrabit]

Given the huge "readership" if that can be the correct term for this forum, I would think anyone who was considering doing business with him in future will have had the alarm bells rung loud and clear by now:ok:

[flybuddy]

:=Thanks again Radicalrabit. Lets hope this is the case. I would hate to see more people loose their money with this organization.

[Mike Cross]

BCT Aviation Kemble Ltd, Reg No 04599393
Incorporated 25/11/2002, Issued Share Capital £2
Winding Up Order issued 10 Jan 2008

Trans International Airways Ltd, Co Rg No 05901211
Incorporated 9/8/2006, Issued Share Capital £1
No accounts filed

[Vertiginous]

No no no. It's like this. The old company — which is going under — transfers all its assets to a new company, then the old company is wound up. The new company then merges with another company. That way, HMRC, the aviation authorities and Special Branch (where did they come from all of a sudden?) are completely hoodwinked — baffled — flummoxed. Even the late Inspector Morse couldn't see through that cunning plan.

Here is the article about the merger:

http://www.flyer.co.uk/news/newsfeed.php?artnum=679

The date of the article is 3 January this year — a few months after TIA was incorporated, and one week before BCT finally died.

The TIA web-site — mentioned elsewhere in this thread — is a sham: very nicely designed, but using a plane manufacturer's own PR pictures, and with no real content. The existence of the site doesn't prove that TIA ever actually did anything. In my view, TIA was never anything more than a half-baked debt-avoidance manoeuvre, created in order to disappear.

The article about the merger mentions one Ed Hewertson of Propstar Aviation (http://propstaraviation.com/). (The Flying Club Kemble (http://www.theflyingclubkemble.com/), according to its web-site, is 'a wholly owned subsidiary of the PropStar Aviation Group'.) Propstar's very flashy web-site — the same designer as TIA's, I think — reveals that Edmund Hewertson is the MD. He might be able to shed some light on the financial background of the merger. In fact, Propstar's web-site invites us to give him a call: the number is 01285 771386, and the e-mail address is [email protected].

Propstar would not (or should not) have merged with a company without first letting their own accountant loose on its books or otherwise being intimate with the company's operations.

[Vertiginous]

Really? Who told you that? The word 'top' makes the whole idea somehow comical. Sometimes when I think back to my experiences of working in the same office as Pawl (not 'working with' him — that never happened, I'm pleased to say), and when I read posts on this thread, I'm gripped by the urge to giggle childishly, like Herbert Lom in the padded cell scrawling 'Kill Clouseau' with his foot.

[flybuddy]

Wow, it would seem these individuals knew all along that they had no intention of sorting out the money they owed me. My chasing of this money has been for some time, in excess of a year or so and they only just wound up in a ball of total Ball**it last month, after this thread was started!

This investigation, if it is worth it will have to continue until someone pays up.

The authorities are already investigating certain individuals so we shall have to watch this soap for the latest installment.

With any luck Her Maj's pleasure will be offered to a few special people.
M

[StrateandLevel]

Can't help but feel whilst you are chasing the office boy, B, C and T are out spending your money!

[flybuddy]

Hi Vertiginous, what a mess. Could not understand where Sp-Branch suddenly came from either. The strange thread was posted on 21st Jan 08 by 'driver 21' who was located overseas and is now apparently in Exeter, gets around a bit and only 2 threads!

It would seem from this chain of info that an illegal avoidance could be presented formally.

Perhaps a new thread could be instigated to provide other victims with the chance to vent their feelings.

"IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS LOST MONEY TO BCT AVIATION, KEMBLE OR INDIVIDUALS RELATED TO THEM?"

In earlier threads the majority of members have been listed along with home addresses. Get mailing!!!!!!!!!

[flybuddy]

Thanks, not really chasing the office boy. It would seem he was BCT at certain points of his interesting career (if that is what you can call it), who is this Paul, what is his actual name, where is he, what is his web address for TIA, who is TIA, when was he the owner/MD of BCT and till when if at all, is he a pilot, private, CPL, Instructor, Concorde? Perhaps just a DJ with a mental issue but large piggy bank.

Yes, you are correct, someone is spending my money and I suspect many others dosh too.

A new thread could be in order.

"Anyone else heard of financial losses with BCT and or Paul Shanley or other nick-name"?

At least one other has indicated a loss with a CCJ issued at Bristol County Court. Any one else out there?

[Vertiginous]

It looks as though we know more than enough to get something underway.

First, and most importantly, there should be no threatening behaviour at any stage. This would be very counterproductive. Don't give anyone any rope. The object has to be to find out whatever you can, then pass it to the police and HMRC. The principals should be encouraged to say as much as possible, and any threatening behaviour will not help this.

Someone needs to visit the new merged company at Kemble and speak nicely to Edmund Hewertson about the financial circumstances of the merger. You could try ringing or e-mailing — the number is 01285 771386, and the e-mail address is [email protected] — but an unannounced visit would be better. Nice and polite. Suggest to him that he's not a suspect — an unsuspecting victim, perhaps. Tell him that BCT walked off with customers' money and you're trying to trace it. Ask him about the financial background of the merger, and about the financial relationship between BCT and TIA. Listen to his replies, note them down, then leave. Don't argue with him. If he stonewalls, just note it.

The delicate question of Pawl Shanley's whereabouts may actually be quite simple: he has told Companies House that he lives at this address:

1 Patsyat Cottage, Kemble, GL7 6AY

and maybe he does. Look on Multimap — it's opposite the airfield. Any visit to this address should be particularly passive. Just tell him you're a creditor of BCT and let him talk. My prediction is that he will either a) produce a huge amount of utter gibberish, or b) slam the door. Don't argue, and don't get angry. If he slams the door, just leave. This will be more scary for him, not less. He knows that you know where he lives. He will assume you will be back, but he doesn't know when or with whom. The imagination is very powerful. Just leave and let him cook.

It might be useful to take a small, unobtrusive voice recorder along to these encounters. A video camera is so very tempting, but it would undoubtedly discourage your interviewees from confiding in you.

Remember, Hewertson and Shanley might tell you something — deliberately or accidentally — that's useful to HMRC.

[troddenmasses]

I have absolutely nothing to do with BCT or any other business in Kemble, other than having in the past been a customer of the flying school Kemble before it closed. Ed Hewertson was one of the instructors there, and when it went bump, he bought the assets, and started a flying club and charter business. He is one of the nicest and brightest chaps you could come across, and certainly isn't an idiot. Whatever shady dealings Pawl has got up to in the past are up to him - nobody else.

I have just bought a house, and therefore am somewhat skint, but hope to become a customer of the flying club there again before too long.

[Mike Cross]

Flybuddy paid his money in 2005. Shanley was not a Director until 2007. It's therefore most unlikely that Shanley had anything to do with the money disappearing. If you think there was an amount sitting in BCT's bank account that showed in the accounts as a credit on Flybuddy's account when Shanley took over and that Shanley then spent it I suggest you go down to the bottom of your garden and have a nice relaxing chat with the fairies who clearly inhabit it.;)

[Vertiginous]

BCT went bust owing money. At that time, Pawl Shanley was the sole director. He therefore has the usual legal responsibilities of a director towards BCT's creditors. Mr Hewertson may be the nicest chap on earth, but his company merged with TIA, an entity that was formed from the defunct BCT and which appears to have existed on paper only. That is the extent — be it great or small — of his involvement. I do not believe Hewertson to be a thief, and I have not intentionally suggested that I do. What I do believe is that he has some knowledge of how (or whether) BCT's remaining assets were transferred to TIA.

The bank account of a company isn't full of discrete sums of money with people's names on them. When a company goes bust, the creditors must fight (usually in court) over what's left. In this case, though, the 'what's left' appears to have turned into TIA rather than being distributed to creditors. This is a problem legally as well as morally. The idea that Pawl Shanley went shopping with a specific person's money is nonsense and has not been floated here.

The fairies at the bottom of my garden deny involvement.

[airborne_artist]

Mike Cross wrote:

If you think there was an amount sitting in BCT's bank account that showed in the accounts as a credit on Flybuddy's account when Shanley took over and that Shanley then spent it I suggest you go down to the bottom of your garden and have a nice relaxing chat with the fairies who clearly inhabit it.

The amount would not have been on a bank statement, but the company's annual report and accounts should have shown FlyBuddy's advance payment (until FlyBuddy had fully drawn down against it), so yes, Shanley as sole director should have known. The balance sheet would show this quite clearly, as it happens.

[Mike Cross]

OK I'll try a simpler explanation.

Flybuddy paid his money over in 2005
The last accounts filed at Companies House were to 30/11/2005 no accounts have been filed for the years to 30/11/2006 or to 30/11/2007
Shanley became a Director on 28/2/2007

The amount would not have been on a bank statement, but the company's annual report and accounts should have shown FlyBuddy's advance payment (until FlyBuddy had fully drawn down against it), so yes, Shanley as sole director should have known. The balance sheet would show this quite clearly, as it happens.

Venting your wrath on Shanley won't get you anywhere. Shanley was not there when the money was taken and was not there when the last accounts were drawn up, or even when the next set of accounts were due.

The balance sheet would not show Flybuddy's money. It would have simply reduced the value of current assets. With correct accounting practice Flybuddy's account should have been in credit, which would have served to reduce the balance of accounts receivable, which is part of current assets.

Shanley could be made personally liable if the company continued to trade while it was insolvent. Having liabilities that exceed your assets does not make you insolvent. The company becomes insolvent when it can no longer meet its debts as they become due. This may be due to no fault of the Directors. For example if a major customer goes bust and cannot pay what he owes. On a more spectacular level Northern Rock isn't insolvent because it continues to be able to pay its debts as they become due. If we taxpayers had not stepped when it was unable to obtain finance then it would be. If it had become insolvent it would have been as a result of a change in the lending policies of players in the wholesale money markets who cut off its finance.

Nothing that I've seen in this thread suggests to me that Shanley trousered any funds. It looks more likely to me that he naively took on a failing business that had no proper accounts and subsequently turned out to be a tin of worms. It is normal when someone takes over a business for some cash to change hands. If Shanley paid money for BCT then he's lost it. It's also normal for a bank or other provider of finance to seek personal guarantees from Directors. If he provided those then he will also have lost out.

Flybuddy's best bet is to register his debt with the Official Receiver, who is handling the compulsory liquidation. He almost certainly won't get his money back but he may find out what happened.

[airborne_artist]

Flybuddy paid his money over in 2005 Does he say this on this thread?

[Mike Cross]

On 25 Nov 2007 FB posted
Many thanks for your hard work on my behalf..

I will try something. Not sure what though. I will probably seek legal advice and go to court. I might try what you suggest and make contact with the original BCT owner in the hope that they have some integrity. I would assume that who ever owned/cashed my cheque in May 05 owes me the money or services to that end.

That's what I was basing my comment on.

[jodphur]

Seen this month's Loop? P48. Any questions about where the assets have gone are answered there, they even show the BCT office furniture! As to Shanley/Couzens not having anything to do with BCT before 2007 he shared the main office after the move from G site all the way through! What about the 2k "shareholder" money each put up for hour building in JZ? This money was supposed to be refundable towards your CPL or IMC there should be at least 4K about from that.

[flybuddy]

Virtiginous, Flybuddy here! Thanks once again. Even if I get no where it is good to feel others understand my losses.

I understand I made my payment in 2005. I attempted ever since then to utilize the hours paid for and was never given the chance. I contacted BCT over and over again and nothing. I visited BCT in 2006 and discussed my credit with both Captain Mathew Litten and Mr Paul Shanley (if that is indeed his name). I was informed Mr Shanley was the Operations Manager and a Director and that he would look into the accounts and sort out my credit. I continued to contact Mr Shanley for an update and also requested many times to fly and was fobbed off with the usual excuses like the plane is booked every day till next month or sorry we don't have a pilot.
I made further contact in 2007 and Mr Shanley announced to me he now owned BCT and that he remembered my problem and would look into it right away, and asked me to send him a copy of the vat invoice supplied in 2005, which I did the next day. He did nothing. Every time I called he fobbed me off. I called in Nov 2007 and Mr Shanley said he did not know anything about my money problem. He asked me to send a copy of the invoice again, which I did. I waited and heard nothing. I then called and he said he had not looked at it but would check it and get back to me. He did nothing and I called chasing it. He said 'what do you want me to do about it' I suggested a refund or flying hours to the value of what I was owed would be a good start. He replied that it was not his problem. He said that BCT was no more and that his new company TIA had nothing to do with it. I asked when BCT was wound up/ceased trading and he put the phone down. This was the last comm's he had with me (I taped the call!!!!)

FB.

[airborne_artist]

Mike Cross wrote:

t's therefore most unlikely that Shanley had anything to do with the money disappearing.

Reading FlyBuddy's most recent post rather puts paid to MC's comments. Shanley knew all about the case, and did all he could to avoid dealing with it:

I continued to contact Mr Shanley for an update and also requested many times to fly and was fobbed off with the usual excuses like the plane is booked every day till next month or sorry we don't have a pilot.
I made further contact in 2007 and Mr Shanley announced to me he now owned BCT and that he remembered my problem and would look into it right away, and asked me to send him a copy of the vat invoice supplied in 2005, which I did the next day. He did nothing. Every time I called he fobbed me off. I called in Nov 2007 and Mr Shanley said he did not know anything about my money problem. He asked me to send a copy of the invoice again, which I did. I waited and heard nothing.

[Mike Cross]

Make of my comments what you will. I have no personal knowledge of Shanley or BCT, I've given you facts that might assist you in reaching a decision.

It's a simple matter of law that a Ltd Co (and I've run one for the last 28 years) is a separate legal entity from its owners and officers. The liability of the owners is limited to their shareholding (that's what limited means) and the officers can only be held personally liable in certain limited circumstances.

If you think that
(a) You can prove to a court that Shanley should be made personally liable AND
(b) He has some assets that you can sieze to enforce judgement against him

then get yourself a lawyer and go for it, otherwise I fear you will be throwing good money after bad. I speak as someone who's taken people to Court in the past to try and get payment of what's been due.

[airborne_artist]

I fear you will be throwing good money after bad. I speak as someone who's taken people to Court in the past to try and get payment of what's been due.

For the amounts involved, I think that any time/money spent on this is good money after bad. It would be very easy to get a judgement and find no assets to go after. I've done the same :(

[Vertiginous]

Flybuddy, your description of Pawl Shanley's behaviour struck a strong chord. You can say the same thing to him a hundred times, and it comes as a surprise to him every time. My first post was all about saving your sanity, and I stand by that. If you think you can uncover anything illegal (which seems quite likely, from what I've read here), then go for it and hand it to the police and HMRC. But as for getting money or sense out of Pawl Shanley, forget it.

Just a minor point — did Pawl say he was the sole director of BCT, or did he say that he owned BCT? If the company had transmogrified from a Ltd. Co. into a sole trader, then that changes things substantially.

[Zorst]

First, regarding the pursuit of those who have no funds or insufficient funds to cover their liabilities, there is satisfaction in running them into the ground if you wish to prove a point. I've done it, deprived people of their homes, cars, jobs, etc, over debts, and I believe it's worth doing as it serves a reminder to others who might be foolish in the future. It also means that if you're in business yourself, people take you seriously when you ask for your fees.

Second, most companies in difficulty have finance through banks or investors. Whether sole traders, Ltd Cos, or whatever, the nature of the agreements with their financiers is crucial, and also dictates to a large degree who gets what if the business is wound up (preferential creditors).

[StrateandLevel]

Flying Schools are like Restaurants, a fair proportion go bust on a regular basis. Anyone who puts money up front in the naive belief they are going to save money really deserves what they get. The only reason they offer you a discount is because its cheaper to borrow from the customer than from a bank. When the cash flow ceases the big boys call in their money and the little boys get none.

It was a limited company so the individuals move away to start up elsewhere, and they have! PS is just a scapegoat who generated a perfect smokescreen for the actual directors by virtue of his Walter Mitty character.

Put it down to a bad experience and don't ever put money up front again; even the CAA tell students not to do it. When a well known firm at Manston went bust a few years ago some students were owed up to £35K! And some had only paid it the week before. They lost it all!

[flybuddy]

Hi Airborne artist, yes I know what you mean. I do however wonder if the assets of his new adventure at Kemble would be useful towards paying creditors like me for his debts. One of the BCT airplanes is still parked in all it's glory behind the tower, on the grass and under material covers at Kemble!

[flybuddy]

Yes, I understand.

I already have the wheels in motion. Certain individuals will be arrested shortly for defrauding people like me, evading tax, operating aircraft requiring an AOC (what ever that is) without an AOC and finally including VAT without issuing vat bills. Customs and Revenue are in the process of a major investigation. Watch this space.

I do not think I and others like me will get our money back but we will all relish in the knowledge they will be unable to hurt others again.

Thanks for your support!
M

[flybuddy]

Hi Zorst. Thanks for your input.

These buggers are simply awful people. They prey on nice people and continue to get away with taking there money.

I hope they get what is comming to them!

[flybuddy]

Hi Vertiginous, Thanks again for your support. I do not know exactly what they are/were. At the time I paid the money they were a vat registered company (company, I think meaning ltd) what they were at the time the phone was put down on me and I was informed there was nothing PS could do to help me (creep), I have no idea what the organization was. I know from others that BCT did not have a valid AOC (what ever that is) when they were flying people around doing sight-seeing/etc flights and that vat bills were not offered on payment of flights despite being informed their rates included vat. In fact the old BCT web site price list verified the inclusion of vat. PS was, according to himself running the fiasco at that time. Perhaps the flying authorities should be included in the chain of interested investigative parties.

[Vertiginous]

Well well. Flybuddy, you done good. Keep us all informed, won't you. Remember to post any photos you might come by of red-hot pokers being used on guilty persons.

Oh, what I would give to hear our dear friend, yours and mine, talking utter gibberish to HMRC.

Have an e-beer on me.

[flybuddy]

Thanks Virtiginous.

[Andy Rylance]

Companies House are showing the following:

Trans-International Airways Ltd,
Building 9,
Kemble Airfield,
GL7 6BA

Date of incorporation: 9/8/2006

Directors:

Secretary Ms J Shanley 20/11/1966,
Director P.J. Shanley 20/6/1964

Finance director:

Christopher Mewis

Previous directors:

M.C.Litten 1/6/73
R.A.Brown 6/12/60

Change of directors 17/10/06
Last paperwork at Companies House was 3/10/2007 but it does not say what.

Also has the Shanley's home address on it...

[Vertiginous]

What a shower. Tracing Bob Brown is not likely to be easy, but I maintain that you will never get anything whatever out of Pawl Shanley except possibly the pleasure of passing HMRC or the police enough information to get him in front of a district judge.

It was always clear that BCT was not liquidated properly. Ownership of its assets appears to have been simply assumed by a new company, which was then promptly merged with another firm. As a method of avoiding paying debts to BCT's creditors, this is pretty crass, and up to the standard of imbecility I would expect from Pawl Shanley.

If BCT was not properly liquidated — as appears to be the case — the police should be contacted. The winding-up of BCT seems to have been fraudulent, and I can't believe the police would simply brush off the contents of this message-board (and a fistful of VAT receipts) without at least making a few basic enquiries.

The creditors should present an outline of the matter to the police. There is nothing to be lost, after all.

Good luck.

[driver 21]

Contact P and A Partnership
Queens Road
Sheffield
They handled the liquidation of BCT Aircraft Leasing
They must have the accounts and therfore must have a record of your debt.
Have you a copy of the invoce ?

[flybuddy]

Hi Driver 21, yes I do.
M

[flybuddy]

Dear Andy, thank you for your support. It is helpful to know their are people out there that care!.
M

[XL319]

Reminds me so much of Northumbria Flying School...a Director there made off with money back in 2004 and the school went bust, but thankfully arose from the ashes.

[Vertiginous]

It's worth bearing in mind that Flybuddy isn't the only aggrieved party to have contributed to this thread, the previous character of Pawl Shanley is known to me and is entirely consistent with the events described, and the circumstances of the creation of TIA and its subsequent merger do not suggest that BCT was wound up in such a way as to give its creditors much of a shout.

Your post hints at something that should be stated outright: what allegations are being made against Flybuddy in the bar-rooms of the world? And do they really serve to counter the anger of BCT's former customers over the loss of their money and their treatment at the hands of the genius Pawl Shanley?

[frost100]

Hey There,

Have Just Been Reading The Thread About Pawl Shanley And Am Quite Concerned As He Has Recently Contacted Me About Another Matter And I Had Thought He Was A Decent Guy But Now Am Reconsidering That Thought!!
I Am Glad I Havent Started Business Dealings With Him And Am Also Glad That I Research The People That I Am Going To Do Business With! Does Anyone Know Who Jane Is? Is That His Wife /sister / Mother??

Thanks

[BRL]

Hi Frost100 And Welcome, Nice Post Indeed.

I would just like to remind everybody to think carefully before they post on this thread..... Thanks. :)

[flybuddy]

Hi Vertiginous,

I do not know what to say about Driver 21. I understood from his earlier thread that he was offering assistance having provided details about BCT but it would seem from what he has said in his later thread that not only does he know a lot about BCT (almost as though he was a part of the business) but also feels the need to slander me.

The bottom line is I paid a lot of money with a vat invoice being supplied for the charter of their AOC aircraft and pilot and was not offered either the flying or a refund when it was clear they were not going to honour my credit. Why am I now being attacked?

M

[flybuddy]

Hi frost100

In the 29th April thread there is info on J Shanley but it does not say what the relationship is to Mr P Shanley. I have been informed he is married so it could be that J is his wife. Sorry I cannot give more help.

[flybuddy]

I have received a private message from Mr B Brown asking for an apology as his name has been used without confirmation of his involvement. The contents of his message provided considerable information indicating he was one of the original partners in BCT but has not been involved in the recent poor dealings of the company. In fact he has personally accrued considerable debts as a result of his earlier involvement in BCT.

I therefore apologise for the inclusion of his name which was supplied by a fellow PPrune member as part of a large report on BCT and it's final days. I have removed this thread at the request of Mr Brown.

I am still owed the money that I paid for the charter flying I was not given but at this time do not know for sure who owes me the money.

[flybuddy]

Hi BRL

Why, do you not think it is good for people to offer assistance and support to those who have lost money.

[flybuddy]

Hi XL319, I know what you mean. It is a shame these people are out there, happy to take other's money. I will never make the mistake of paying in advance for anything again. They saw me comming.

[BRL]

Hi BRL
Why, do you not think it is good for people to offer assistance and support to those who have lost money.

It serves as a reminder to people not to post anything that could be libelous as it is us here behind the scenes who have to deal with it all.

It is also to try and prevent the situation happening that you brought to my attention in your email to me today. (slanderous posts........)

[flybuddy]

Hi BRL,
Thank you. This whole situation is very upsetting. I have lost a lot of money and have been provided with considerable support showing I am not alone with my problem. I was advised to post the details about BCT which I did after clarifying it was ok to post the author's contents but in hindsight perhaps should not have mentioned names but the details alone. I think perhaps I was used by others to voice their personal feelings about BCT and to no benefit to this thread or my financial loss.

Where to go from here. I find myself being slandered without provocation when infact I am the victim.

[Vertiginous]

Driver 21's curious post about you seems to have disappeared. That sort of stuff needs to be justified quite rigorously, so maybe he wasn't able to do that. Don't worry about it. It's clear you're not alone in your dealings with BCT.

As to the question of who Jane Shanley is, I can reveal that when I knew Pawl (when he was Pawl Couzens) (newcomers will perhaps need to start at the beginning to follow this) his girlfriend was a very pleasant and apparently sensible girl called Jane.

Funny old world.

As to the business of Pawl seeming quite sound on the basis of what he says (Frost100's post), I can say with some confidence that what Pawl says and what he does are not even distantly related.

And Frost100 — please don't capitalise every word, or Cary Grant's cropsprayer will come after you. :)

[flybuddy]

Hi Virtiginous, thanks once again. There are some really nasty people out there!

I hope PPrune track this nice person down and have a word.

It is bad enough having a lot of money taken from you, it is even worse to be slandered as well.

[AOCcrazy]

It would appear everybodies favourite flying school people are at it again... this time in the guise of "Cotswold Flying Club" see: The Cotswold Flying Club @ Kemble (http://www.cotswoldflyingclub.com/)

Apparently the company is "TIA flight training Ltd" now

Yet another manifestation of this guy Shanley...

I heard a rumour that he was fired from the other place and was so agrieved he went off and started yet another school. Must be worth following up??

[justlooking_tks]

AOCcrazy

Yes had a look through the site of the CFC.

After reading through the "impressive" waffle, the only thing that was left out was the names of the owners or directors or any management for that matter.

This must ring alarm bells for anyone! It did for me!


flybuddy

"It is bad enough having a lot of money taken from you, it is even worse to be slandered as well."

Welcome to British/European law!! Law is not about justice! I learnt that a long time ago. No wander people are tempted to take the law into their own hands.

[airborne_artist]

From the regs of the aircraft shown on their website, and G-Info:

G-FPSA - PA-28

DEEP CLEAVAGE LTD
SHUTTERN HOUSE
UPPER HIGH STREET
TAUNTON
TA1 3PX

G-CEJF - PA28 and G-GBFF - C-172

STEPHEN JOHN SKILTON
TRADING AS:
AVIATION RENTALS
7 PADDOCK FIELD
CHILBOLTON
STOCKBRIDGE
SO20 6AU

Domain info:

Registrant:
Trans International Flight Training
The Flight Centre
D Site, Kemble Air Field
Kemble, Gloucestershire GL7 6BA
GB

Domain name: COTSWOLDFLYINGCLUB.COM

Administrative Contact:
Kelly, Liam http://source.domaintools.com/email.pgif?md5=94289e3499163849a14c9d2b2aad6623&face=Atomic_Clock_Radio&size=7&color=000000&bgcolor=FFFFFF&format%5B%5D=transparent&face=Trebuchet&size=9&color=0000FF&bgcolor=FFFFFF&format%5B%5D=underline&format%5B%5D=transparent (http://www.domaintools.com/registrant-search/?and%5B%5D=94289e3499163849a14c9d2b2aad6623)
The Flight Centre
D Site, Kemble Air Field
Kemble, Gloucestershire GL7 6BA
GB
07890202552

trans-internationairways.com is registered to Shanley, as I'm sure you know.

[flyingman-of-kent]

It has long been the law that any limited company and limited liability partnership follows certain disclosure requirements on company stationary, but from Jan 2007 this now includes company websites and emails. £1,000 fine for non compliance!

A summary is found here:
Business stationery / Translations (http://www.companieshouse.co.uk/promotional/busStationery.shtml)

Perhaps Companies House would also be interested in the failure to provide this information, which a cynic could say was deliberate in CFC's case?

[rich_g85]

What an absolutely crap website that is! The spelling and grammar are appalling.

[Cotswold Flying Club]

Hello everyone,

Im the sole director of TIA Flight Training Ltd t/a Cotswold Flying Club.

I would appreciate if you have a complant about my company you bring it to my face and not post rumours about me on this internet. I, Liam Kelly have only been involved in the aviation industry for no more than two months. I have had nothing to do with any of the other flying schools on the airfield on a business level at all. I joined The Flying Club Kemble <a href="http://www.theflyingclubkemble.com">The Flying Club Kemble</a> back in Feb 2008 as a student where i passed my PPL. Pawl Shanley was at the time working at The Flying Club Kemble on ops as i beleave Ed Hewertson and Pawl Shanley merged Propstar Flight Training Ltd and TIA Aviation Flight Training Ltd (the old BCT) back in late 2007. Pawl recently left Propstar Flight Training Ltd <a href="http://www.flypropstar.com">Propstar</a> PropStar Aviation - Private aircraft travel from Gloucestershire (http://www.flypropstar.com) to concentrate on Trans-International Airways his aircraft charter brokerage. This is when i approced Pawl asking him to give me some guidence into running my own flying school, as he was short of office space i agread to rent him space to run the flight charter company from my new offices on D-site, Kemble. I asked Pawl if he minded me using the name TIA for my new venture and he abliged and gave me permision, i then decided to trade as Cotswold Flying Club under the TIA Flight Training Ltd banner. TIA Flight Training Ltd is a new company and im the sole director, it has no connections with any other company that may have been present on the airfield in the past.
Iv had a read of the other threads on this forum and see that some of you are looking for Mathew Litton, i belave you will find he is running another company on the airfield LAW Aviation ltd <a href="http://www.lawaviation.aero/">Law Aviation Ltd</a> LAW Aviation - Home (http://www.lawaviation.aero)

If any one would like to discuss this matter further or belave any one owes you money etc then please feel free to get in contact, our offices are based on D-site at Kemble airfield, accross the road from the old BCT office. Our phone number is 01285 898229 or my email is [email protected]

And please don't post any more coments about my buiness, i have told you all i know and hope this informs you of anything you did not already know.

Regards
Liam

[Mike Cross]

For info

According to Companies House Liam is Sole Director of TIA Flight Training Ltd and Cotswold Flying Club@Kemble Ltd

I have no connection with him or his companies.

Mike

[airborne_artist]

This is when i approced Pawl asking him to give me some guidence into running my own flying school

Bet that took all of five minutes. Hope you are following his advice to the letter :E

[Vertiginous]

Liam —

It must have come as a shock to read this thread. But perhaps, having read it, you can appreciate how and why it came into being.

I hope you do well with your business and keep your punters happy. The first step on the road to achieving this is to ignore everything Pawl Shanley says. Be straightforward with everyone, abstain from bull****, and you will go far.

:ok:

[Vertiginous]

Liam, make sure you get a solicitor and an accountant to check over all of the paperwork you inherited from PS. Everything. Get them to go back as far as possible. It'll be worth the expense, believe me. You need to know ASAP about the contents of all closets.

[Willow04]

I see Pawl Shanley/Couzens is a member of "The Team"

The Cotswold Flying Club @ Kemble - The Team (http://www.cotswoldflyingclub.com//team.htm)

Well is he or isn't he?

[nghoward]

Mr Shanley/Couzens and Mr Liam Kelly aka The Cotswold Flying club have been asked not to operate from Kemble and to remove their aircraft.

[Fly-by-Wife]

So, what about Trans-International Airways - the outfit that Mr. Shanley/Couzens now seems to be responsible for?

Assuming you have "inside" knowledge of the workings at Kemble!

FBW

[Vertiginous]

I suspect that Liam Kelly is a victim of fate. Anyone whose dreams are shot down simply because they found themselves in the same office as Pawl Shanley deserves sympathy. But it does look as though someone at Kemble has finally become aware that Mr Shanley is not doing much for their reputation, and they took appropriate action.

I can't imagine Pawl Shanley's business — TIA or whatever he wants to call it — surviving long in the current climate, wherever they're based.

[nghoward]

TIA appear to have no aircraft its just an office a website and
Mr Shanley/Couzens,the same office as The Cotswold Flying Club.

[yogibearair]

It is rumoured and this is a rumour network, that a new flying training company recently set up at Kemble airfield are no longer trading!!

It is further rumoured that the two individuals concerned are off to sunny Spain to set up a flying school at Jerez!!! UMMM isn't there a big flying organisation there? Seems like an awfully good business idea to set up there me thinks!! NOT....I wonder who could have dreamt of such a thing!!

Incidently guys it seems all those who purchased trial lesson vouchers this xmas may not get their flights due to the on going politics on Kemble airfield and the supposed cessation of trading of said company!

Can I have a show of hands of those who are not surprised at this information......

[splatt]

As these fellas have now gone the way of the dodo I feel like sharing my tale of woe, though not nearly as great a woe as other posters.

Last year I was interested in starting my PPL again. I have 32 hours gained under the BCT banner a few years back and although they may not count much for my skills after all that time I thought that I'd best get some proof of them in any case. I called the CAA and they said to get copies of my student records or draw up an affidavit with a solicitor.

Queue phone call to Cotswold Flying Club to ask about my student records. They were politely obstructive at first. They claimed ignorance of their responsibilities under the CAA to keep student records for BCT students. I have a letter from Aero School Kemble saying that they'd taken on the BCT membership. Am I incorrect in thinking that Aero School Kemble later became or was incorporated into Cotswold Flying School? I eventually got through to Pawl Shanley himself and I asked politely what the story was. He had to close all the doors and windows in his office before he spoke because he said it was noisy. I did not hear any background noise. Never the less we got talking and Pawl pointed the finger at Matt Litten but said he'd do his best to help me out and phone me back if he found anything.

That phone call never came so I contacted Matt Litten who I don't know very well, but he wasn't very surprised to be blamed when I contacted him to ask about the records. His story is exactly as put forward in this thread. He agreed to sign anything that might be necessary to verify my logbook as true.

I have yet to call in that favour but thank you Captain Matt! :ok:

[Whopity]

They claimed ignorance of their responsibilities under the CAA to keep student records for BCT students.

I think you are a little confused here. BCT were a Registered Facility and the Responsible Person nominated in the application for registration is the person who is responsible for all Training Records. There is no legal requirement to keep such records for any finite period of time though the CAA recommend 3 years. There is no documented procedure to deal with Registered Facilities that cease trading other than that they are required to notify the CAA that they are no longer trading. In the past, records from RFs that have notified their demise have been sent to the CAA for safe keeping. They should not be transferred to another organisation. You should ask the CAA for details of the responsible person!

[Vertiginous]

Don't bother — you know what the answer will be. It looks as though the good Captain has the situation in hand.

[Andi]

It strikes me how easy some people in this thread can be made happy or be foolished.:ugh:

Greets from sunny Russia:}

[Vertiginous]

No, I don't agree: people on this thread are quite normal. There is maybe a tendency to overuse emoticons, but this fashion is general, not just on this web-site. The reason is that we have all been misunderstood in e-mails, perhaps by saying something homorously and finding that it is taken seriously. It's hard to communicate, other than very formally, with others who are not present. Misunderstandings are a waste of time and frustrating. So emoticons now tend to be used rather a lot. They charactature the situation, make it a melodrama, but they can help avoid misunderstandings.

As to the underlying realities of this thread -- well, you need to have met the protagonist, Pawl Couzens / Shanley, to understand why some contributors get very annoyed. Shanley is like Inspector Clouseau. If that doesn't mean anything to you, check out a French film with Peter Sellers called The Pink Panther.

[Spanish Detective]

Hi peeps, interesting thread about Pawl Shanley and Liam Kelly, the two of them have surfaced in Spain and recently set-up a pirate radio station operating as Radio Caroline Spain.

It seems this has been as successful as their pervious businesses, as the plug was pulled last Friday, with the poor backer left out of pocket to the tune of 11,000 euros.

I'll re-produce the messages from the pirate radio forum below, as I expect they'll get deleted, and I think it could be of interest to anyone that has had dealings with these people.



Dear Peter
It is with regret that I inform you that after irreconcilable differences over programming and continuity, quality of presentation and finance that Radio Caroline Spain ceased to broadcast today October 9th 2009 at 1315hrs local. This decision was made following a heated discussion with Alexander Baker the third partner, who wanted to drop our AOR Rock format and play the top forty and other pop tunes. I have been fighting the Caroline corner for too long alone now and, what with your criticisms and those of Alexander Baker, I am unwilling to continue. I do not want to own nor work for a pop station when there are three other stations here all playing the same drivel and not making money either and the presentation will be worse than any of them put together.
No doubt my departure will allow my name to be used to blame all failures, but I shall not let it happen without recourse.
I will sign off by saying that the last six months have been costly in both monetary and emotional terms and I am not too sad to have it all at an end.
There were however a few high points of which one was the pleasure I took in meeting you and sharing a small amount of time with you just the once.
I am sure you are very happy to have this all end now, since you had already declared that RCS was perhaps "only temporary" I cannot tell you how unhappy I am to have proven you right and what a loss it is to the many people who listened and contacted us to tell us what a sterling job we were doing.
Sincerely
Paul Shanley
Radio Caroline Spain



I dont know if you guys out there actualy know paWl shanley, but not only is he a liar he is also a con man, He promissed me everything when I funded radio caroline 11000 euros to be exact to get the station up and running in spain. The so called argument was nothing to do with the format it was to do with finances, we were struggling to get sponsors to keep the station afloat and paWl shanley came to work one day on a moped saying that he got the bike from a company rather than money to fund the station.
It came to a head as paWl shanley put nothing financialy into the station, after putting my 11000 euros in i felt i could do no more, we even got cut from the telephone 20e bill and the internet 12e, paWl shanley thinks that he can come to work on a brand new moped rather than get funds to help run the station,,,
now i ask you do you think i would throw 11000e away about programming,,,,NO is the answer, i just could not take any more of his lies and deciept, i thought radio caroline spain was an exellent station,. the only thing that let the station down was paWl shanley, If it was not for him the station would still be running now,,,im not going to throw that amount of money away,,, i am sorry you guys but im telling you the truth, its up to you if you dont believe me.
yours sandy b the flying fier,,,alexander baker.



POSTED BY ME OVER THERE:

May I have your attention please?
May I have your attention please?
Will the real Pawl Shanley please stand up?
I repeat, will the real Pawl Shanley please stand up?
We're gonna have a problem here..

Pawl Shanley is listed on the Radio Caroline Spain website as someone with a passion for flying and a background in advertising sales and we know he had someone called Liam working for him as the techy guy.

A Pawl Shanley, also known as Pawl Couzens, is featured on the ‘Professional Pilots’ forum as a man with a background in advertising sales that was last known to be heading to Spain with his ‘business partner’ Liam Kelly. It’s an interesting thread about dodgy business dealings, people being ripped-off and county court action.

On that thread you’ll notice post 106 is Liam Kelly posting in the same style as techy Liam did on here – for example using ‘Im’ instead of ‘I’m’ amongst other things– denying that Pawl Shanley/Couzens was anything to do with the new business of ‘Cotswold Flying Club’, but another poster at post 111 points out that Pawl Shanley/Couzens was featured on the company’s website as a member of ‘The Team’.

This does somewhat support Alexander Baker’s claim that Pawl is not all what he seems to be.

THIS INFORMATION IS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.

May I have your attention please?
May I have your attention please?
Will the real Pawl Shanley please stand up?
I repeat, will the real Pawl Shanley please stand up?
We're gonna have a problem here..

[Spanish Detective]

Sorry peeps, forgot to include links, for as long as they remain available:

Pirate / Free Radio forum thread:
Pirate / Free Radio: Radio Caroline Spain (http://members7.boardhost.com/PirateRadio/msg/1255123128.html)

Radio Caroline Spain:
Radio Caroline Spain 102.7fm (http://radiocaroline.es/index.htm)
- click on 'Advertise' and you'll see Pawl listed as Paul.
- click on 'Presenters' and Pawl's on-air name was 'The Hound Dog', strangely the only presenter who's face is not shown - I wonder why?

Finally, this operation had no direct link to the real Radio Caroline in the UK apart from relaying their output overnight. http://www.radiocaroline.co.uk (http://www.radiocaroline.co.uk/)

[Vertiginous]

Well, I wasn't there, but this is 100% characteristic straight-down-the-line Pawl Shanley behaviour. Including changing the spelling of his name. The episode with the moped is particularly characteristic. The guy really should have an explanatory label stapled to his forehead. I feel sorry for Mr Baker, and even sorrier that he won't be the last victim of this pan-galactic pillock.

:ugh:

[Vertiginous]

Well isn't that interesting? All of the presenters on this now-defunct station have real (or plausible) names, except one. All of the presenters (not unreasonably) show their faces for the camera, except one. Are we to conclude that this one presenter — ‘Hound Dog’ — doesn't want anyone to know his name or what he looks like?

:}

[Stinky Pete]

Well looks like the Shanley character has re-emerged by moving into a house right next door to Kemble Airfield and because they refused to let him start up the flying school mentioned earlier he now spends his time complaining to the local council about all the activities there...........sums him up really

[flybuddy]

Further to various input on this thread and having been informed there is no chance of getting my money back that was stolen by BCT 'The start of this thread', it has been pointed out to me that there is in fact still monetary value somewhere as a result of the demise of BCT.

In several entries in this thread it was made quite clear that all assets were taken by the liquidators with nothing left to repay us, not withstanding the fact that many of us were never informed of the liquidation and given the opportunity to add ourselves to the list of creditors!

I have just been made aware that in fact the lack of any remaining assets of BCT at Kemble is potentially untrue as one of the Cessna 150 aircraft, Registration 'G-BSJZ', still in all its BCT paint glory is up for sale with a new advert placed for everyone to see on AvBuyer on 24th January 2010.

For all those who are owed money by BCT at Kemble and involved in this thread and indeed any unsuspecting aircraft purchasers, please see the advert at:-

*Aircraft for sale:*Aircraft for Sale on AvBuyer.com (http://www.avbuyer.com/aircraft/results.asp?AId=24842&NlId=1070)

.

[Mike Cross]

Registered owner does not appear to have anything to do with BCT or Shanley. Your local council dustcart may have the council's name on it but it won't be an asset of the council.

Chances are that the lady concerned is also a victim like you, owed money by BCT and stuck with an aircraft that is not airworthy and needs a repaint to get rid of the livery.

[swp53]

The C152 is for sale by a Mr Brown with another ex BCT aircraft also for sale by a Mr Brown on the same website the Diesel PA-28 Warrior.
Has a Ex BCT member I wonder if this is Bob Brown the B in BCT who lived in the Derby area if my memory is correct?

Steve

[Mike Cross]

Dunno about that but Mr Brown is not the registered owner, not unless he's taken to wearing a frock and calling himself Maureen. In any case none of the adverts by "Mr Brown" appear to be current.

[swp53]

If my memory is correct BCT stood for Brown Campbell Tomlinson the 3 owners of BCT aviation based at Kemble.
Steve

[PPRuNe Towers]

Mr Brown has always made himself out to be a litigious little sausage.

Strangely enough he hasn't been in touch with us over this purportedly shocking post above.

Strangely enough he's never made good any of his threats.

We miss him and hope he writes to us soon with clarification.

Rob

[StrateandLevel]

This thread is primarily about someone who was daft enough to put money up front in a flying club and loosing it. BCT were a limited company that went bust; that's really the end of it. If they have your money you will probably never see it again. When a limited company goes bust, you can lodge a claim against its remaining assets, but remember, the major claimant is the taxman so you probably won't get anything. Companies only want you to put money up front to pay someone else's bills so caveat emptor. Other BCT companies still exist, but they are separate companies.

I had dealings with this Company prior to its demise and spoke with Mr Shanley shortly afterwards. Mr Shanley had been employed as an Ops Officer at BCT until the day it folded; he was given the keys and a directorship as the real owners left the building, leaving him looking dazed with a smoking gun in his hand. He was as much a victim as anyone else. Because of his enthusiasm, he attempted to resurrect the flying club but it failed.

I am confident that Mr Shanley is being used as a Scapegoat in the BCT episode. I do not believe he was personally responsible for anyone loosing their money as he was simply an employee until after the event. I think the way he is portrayed and pursued in this thread is both unfair and unjust.

swp53 Quite Correct

[Tonka Toy]

MC - Wasn't there a Maureen who was the wife of one the directors? - sadly the one who I believe died in an RTA? I remember her for being a nice charming lady as well as pretty.

[jodphur]

Sound to me like StrateandLevel is an alias for Shanley/Cousens. Who else would stand up for the twerp? Maureen was the wife of Bob who was killed in a RTA. As to JZ that was the aircraft that had the hour building shares in it.

[ClosingDown]

Just opened up this enormous thread regarding BTU's antics, makes for quite entertaining reading! (Especially yours Vertiginious). I also used to work 'with' Pawl Shanley and am having quite excellent fun reading all of these posts.

Wonder where/what he's doing now?

It's a frightening thought....gives me a few ideas for possible Halloween costumes though

[Sam Rutherford]

"Companies only want you to put money up front to pay someone else's bills so caveat emptor"

I was reading that, and whilst possible, I thought it might be an idea to post a counter thought.

We ask, in some cases, a substantial amount of deposit for our trips. It is, unfortunately, the only way of making sure that they are committed. It is amazing the amount of 'I'm 100% definite' calls or emails that suddenly convert to 'actually, no can do' once the request for money arrives. Perhaps not so much for flying schools, but we also spend quite a bit of cash sometimes several months in advance as well.

Keeping a space that is then not taken, particularly if then others are turned away, is not an option for many companies - and particularly not flight schools who struggle at the best of times.

So, if unsure then definitely keep your money in the bank, but if the amount and timescale seem reasonable then you may have to 'take the risk'. Not trying to teach the sucking of eggs - but if 'they' seem particularly keen to get your deposit you may want to look elsewhere!

Safe flights, Sam.

[Thoroughly Nice Bloke...]

Bob Brown also owns G-DLTR which is also up for sale...

[Spanish Detective]

Just opened up this enormous thread regarding BTU's antics, makes for quite entertaining reading! (Especially yours Vertiginious). I also used to work 'with' Pawl Shanley and am having quite excellent fun reading all of these posts.

Wonder where/what he's doing now?

He recently turned-up involved with a new daytime service of 'Big L' radio, which transmitted from Holland on 1395AM aimed at the UK and on the former Radio Caroline Spain transmitter, using the studios of TotalStar radio in Cheltenham, together with former Radio One DJ Mike Read, who himself had previously been involved with ‘Big L’ back in 2008, before he was declared bankrupt.

Two peas sharing the same pod?

The Dutch transmitter is owned and operated by a professional company called ‘Broadcast Partners’, which maintains transmission sites for loads of national, regional and local radio stations in various European countries.

Broadcast Partners have recently switched off the Dutch transmitter due to….

*drum roll*

…. non-payment. :eek:

You can read all about it on Digital Spy (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=47753538#post47753538)

[Phil Space]

Our little friend is up to his tricks again.

OneGold is up and running online - Page 8 - Radio - Digital Spy Forums (http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1437163&page=8)

Milking the broadcasting lark again I guess.:D

[BEagle]

This is the Total Star Radio DJ to whom the flying fox refers:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/PS.jpg

Whether or not he has any connection with the events described in this thread, I have no idea.

[madlandrover]

Having met him/ferried an aircraft with tech records that later didn't match, it's the same person.

[the flying fox]

Yes, that's him. He should change his name to Walter Mitty, or perhaps Billy Liar.
It seems my last post with his contact details has been removed.

[airborne_artist]

The Flying Club Kemble "suspends trading" (http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/470072-flying-club-kemble-suspends.html)

Plus ca change mais c'est le meme chose :ugh:

For reference:
THEFLYINGCLUBKEMBLE.COM WHOIS

Updated: 22 seconds ago
Registrant:
Edmund Hewertson
The Old Fire Station,
Kemble Airfield
Kemble, GLOS GL7 6BA
GB

Domain name: THEFLYINGCLUBKEMBLE.COM


Administrative Contact:
Hewertson, Edmund http://who.is/dimages/text/[email protected]
The Old Fire Station,
Kemble Airfield
Kemble, GLOS GL7 6BA
GB
+44.1285771025

FLYPROPSTAR.COM WHOIS


Registrant:
PropStar Asset Management Ltd
Hangar G2
Kemble Aerodrome
Cirencester
Gloucestershire
GL7 5SY

[horatio_b]

I came across this website which is very useful for checking background histories of company directors Who runs it? (http://www.whorunsit.org)

[K1200Sagian]

Thats a pity about The Flying Club Kemble.


Another ' do not pay anything in advance' lesson.

[avonflyer]

The members of the club met and hopefully an new "not for profit" club retaining the name, location and equipment will restart operations in the next couple of weeks.

For sure, the emphasis will be on responding to what the members want, reducing the cost per hour, and NOT taking any money up front..

Obviously there needs to be at least a minimum number of members to give the club a stable outlook; the list is being put together now.

Fingers Crossed all will come together soon

[Vertiginous]

BEagle: Yes, that's Pawl Shanley / Couzens.

[billiboing]

Just for information- Pilot Flight Training from Hinton is currently going through all the legals with Cotswold Airport to take on the lease of the old Flying Club Kemble building and to operate from there.

This would be in addition to their other operations and it should be stressed that Pilot Flight Training has nothing to do with either Propstar or The Flying Club Kemble, but WILL be offering free membership to former members of The Flying Club Kemble.

We currently have 4 x PA38s, 4 x C150/152s, 3 x Pa28s, Grob 109, Dimona and a couple of slingsbys. Which aircraft come across to the new operation will depend upon demand.

There is an instructors meeting this friday night to have a chat about the operations. Obviously we already have our own approvals, examiners etc so starting operations should be fairly quick.

Wish us luck. But just to stress- we are nothing to do with the old company in any way!

Safe landings guys.

[SunnyDayInWiltshire]

Good to see the facilities will be re-energised. Good luck with your new venture. It will be interesting to see how prices compare to your Hinton operation.

I wondered if the new operation will also have access to the 2-3 aircraft that TFCK had leased - I think these were 2xC152 and 1xPA28?

[flyingwelshman]

Did a drive by on Kemble yesterday in search of something new.... but didn't spot anything....

anyone got any news?!

[avonflyer]

Ah the story is long but the outcome is short - nothing happened.

It was deemed not financially viable to run the club as a "not for profit organisation" but, another organisation that was training elsewhere thought to take it on. BUT, they had problems of their own and although planes arrived the club never got off the ground.

By this time much of the support drained away. So the core of the students and qualified members that hired have gone to the Cotswold Flying School Cotswold Flying School Home Page (http://www.cotswoldflyingschool.com/) which operates from the tower building.

The premises of the old Kemble Club are still, I believe, vacant.

[Whopity]

The moral of the story is however quite simple; don't put money up front, its a risky business. The first post asked:What Ever Happened to BCT at Kemble The answer to that is quite simple, they closed down one operation and returned to their core activity (http://www.bctair.com/). Meanwhile, this thread has picked on one individual, akin to the persecution of witches and achieved nothing as some originally forecast. Nobody ran off with anyone's money, it paid off some of the companies debts, but obviously not all. Hopefully others will learn something from this because it will happen again.