UK Security, MORs and CHIRP

[Human Factor]

I've just read the Autumn edition of CHIRP and a large portion of it is devoted to concerns regarding security procedures in the UK. Specifically, how the continual harassment of pilots is detrimental to flight safety, particularly with regard to distraction management.

The concern of the CHIRP board appears to be that the Permanent Secretary to the Department for Transport is "not persuaded that the problems reported through this Programme [CHIRP] translated into a real flight safety risk."

To paraphrase CHIRP, the MOR scheme is not reserved for incidents of a mainly technical nature. Any incidents involving security checks that individuals feel have a consequent effect on flight safety can and should be reported to the CAA using the MOR scheme. The scheme includes the facility to report confidentially directly to the Authority (CAP382 refers).

Please ASR/MOR ALL security related issues which have a potential effect on flight safety and forward them to BALPA where possible. There are only two ways which will ensure a sensible and appropriate level of security is applied to pilots - a paper trail and delays.

[Human Factor]

Danny,

Any chance this could be made a "Sticky" on R&N.

[A and C]

Regreatbly I have had to file a number of reports on the secutity issue, the worst involved a BAA airport and the security management took 4 mounths to reply!

Having considered these security "events" of a "human factor" nature CHIRP seemed to be the correct place to make that report, I was under the mis-plased impresion that the DfT and CAA would read and take note of the reports in CHIRP....................... It would seem that this is not the case and this if the latest editorial in CHIRP is correct (and I have no reason to doubt that).

So I am pondering my next move , do I go back into my records and MOR all the past "events" just to get them on record or do File an MOR stating that the DfT and the CAA are not doing the job that they should be by not reading and taking into account the reports in CHIRP?

Answers on a postcard please!

[Rainboe]

There is the uncomfortable question to answer: if you were so adversely affected by your experiences in UK security that you need to make a MOR, was it therefore justifiable to operate the schedule, or should you have delayed?

I see now MAN security have unilaterally decided to make life harder by restricting to one crew bag only through security? Or certainly no hold baggage through the Xray machine. Security has become an empire unto itself, put in place to make aviation harder for the employees.

[Sudden Stop]

^^^

Restrictions on the number of items has absolutely nothing to do with improving security, does it? :ugh: Surely searching two small bags is easier than one large packed to the brim - rediculous.

Perhaps people are guilty of trying too hard to keep schedual despite the increased difficulties getting through security...

If security is slowing you down, take a deep breath, accept it and allow slots to be missed.

[A and C]

On one occasion I delayed the aircraft and went for a coffee to cool off, this was a direct result of the mistake that I made if flying directly after a very big problem with security at another airport.

I reported both inccidents to the company and one CHIRP but security seem immune from any critical comment however in this politicly correct world I am going to take a new tack and use the discrimination laws to defend myself, it is clear that pilots are the best "sport" for the power drunk low life (about 10% of the security operatives) and Captains are the best of all to provoke, no doubt this makes the best banter in the canteen. So next time I will hit them with the discrimination card either on the captain grounds or as I have a lot of metalwork inside my leg discrimination of the disabled.

When they get a bit sharp wih you it is also worth pointing to the notices about abuse of staff and asking them to stay within the rules that they will apply to you if you so much as raise an objection.

The good news is that MAN security will have to comply with the new DfT rules for crew, two bags now allowed when on or within 24 hours of duty. we shall see if the power drunk half witts have taken the time to read the new rules!

[Shiny side down]

Is that confirmed, 2 bags allowed for crew? I ask because the staff search facility (which previously was slightly more appropriate) gives access to the ramp at glasgow, from where the walk to the domestic pier has become a little more convoluted because of the urgent need to convert the area adjacent gate14 into some form of pampering lounge. So it's all become a bit of a complete 4rse ache.
Domestic search is the direct route into the domestic pier, but is generally staffed with the regular (10%) complement of intelectually-challenged.

[Human Factor]

Back to the top as I have no doubt there are some people who don't read CHIRP.

[A and C]

Two bags for crew is now a DfT rule.

No doubt this change will take some time to reach the "coalface" and I have no doubt that the power drunk members of the security community will still try to impose the old rule just to fuel there egos.

I will try to find a link to the relivent DfT documents, I would recoment that if you are going to use the two bag rule you have a copy of the net DfT ruling................ I suspect you will need to show it!

[SKI]

The best thing would be a day or two of action...ie no flights...Christmas would be a good time and that would give the papers something to talk about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rmac]

Thats a great idea SKI, considering that all it will do is help give more of the security berks extra time off over christmas due to no/low traffic, oh, and piss off all the paying punters who are equally, or more inconvenienced by them :ugh:

[toratoratora]

It would be good to obtain a printout of said DFT ruling,if only to stick under the nose of some bolshy 'erbert who decides to throw his/her weight around (see how gender correct I am? Sad....).
The BAA security people in particular seem to forget that the airlines(and their crew) are the CUSTOMERS. No airlines= no airports= no jobs,etc....

[Symbian]

Best way to treat some of these so called security monkeys is to play them at their own game i.e. soon as one of them is rude to me I ask to see their supervisor and manager and have on occasion called the police to make a complaint of abusive behaviour. Exactly what those clowns would do to us if we were to talk to them in a condescending manner. It works every time as they do not have the savvy to start a war of words especially if they involve more than one syllable.

I off course then file an ASR,(MOR if serious) CHIRP if above a minor fracas and always fill out a complaint form and send to D of T its available for download from their site. Finally I get names and file a report via my base manager.

I’m glad to say I have a reputation for been a complete pain in the arse at my local airfield security cell and I am very proud of that. It also has the added benefit of being treated with respect every time I go through as they know me to well to push their luck.

Above all stay within the rules and there is not a dammed thing they can do when you start creating a scene at the way you have been treated.

[Terraplaneblues]

Back to the top as I have no doubt there are some people who don't read CHIRP.

I am now considering not reading it, when presented with a genuine problem, they were fobbed off far too easily.

In order to get out of doing anything, Dft/CAA have just moved the goalposts

If people are "Chirping" then that is a confidential report and should be listened to by the Dft & the CAA, what the report is called, should not matter.

It has also illustrated the pitfalls of the MOR system.

[chrisbl]

DfT are notoriously slow in adding information to their website, their Airport Aviation (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/security/aviation/airport/) link does not have any up-date. Likewise, getting information out of them is worse than getting blood out of a stone.

Do you really think that the retards who do the security job read websites?

[hotmetal]

For Flight Crew with a ‘Full UK issued ID Card;
Operating, Positioning and Commuting crew will, providing they are travelling within the 24 hour period preceding or following a duty - be treated as ‘staff’ ie Operating Flight Crew, for the purpose of security screening. (ie you will be allowed more than one bag through security – essentially as if you are operating)
Let's be clear. This is MORE THAN ONE BAG. Not two bags. Some people may want to take 3 for example if they have a handbag. If we start telling security staff there is a new rule about 2 bags they will think it is 2 and no more. The new rule is more than 1!

I don't know why they say a Full UK Issued ID Card. Do some people just have half ID cards or something?

[Feather #3]

The answer, hotmetal, is that there are other flyers who may transit the UK in similar circumstances, but they may only take 1 bag as they don't have a UK issue ID.

G'day ;)

[hotmetal]

Well i understand what a UK ID is but I don't know what Full ID is :confused:

[overstress]

It's like being 'fully ready' for departure, or the aircraft coming to a 'complete stop'. :ugh:

[Grasscarp]

I am very pleased to see that this thread has been started. I was stunned by some of the stories in latest Chirp, especially the poor pilot with the wrong size of contact lens solution. Common sense would be to have one set of rules for passengers and a different set for crew. Why cant the D of T etc see the current one size fits all approach makes no sense whatsoever.

[fireflybob]

I was also stunned by the stories reference crews and engineers experiences with security but also somewhat outraged by the response from the Permanent Secretary and indeed tha CAA which smacks of "Dont confuse us with the facts because our minds are already made up". Just because they dont formally have many MORs does not mean the problem does not exist as is shown by 70 reports to CHIRP. The authorities seem to be out of touch with what the end users are suffering from on a daily basis.

[jshg]

I hope it is correct that the new DfT regulation is accepted now by Security, but I had this from BALPA the other day when I queried why nothing seemed to have changed :
Currently the situation is that UK airports are still deciding whether
they will implement the new procedure or not! The BAA (LHR, LGW and STN) has not, and although it hasn't happened on 100% of occasions - MAN had done.
TRANSEC (The DfT department responsible for implementation) are being
very evasive on the issue of mandating the procedure and are quoting
their favourite line that "any airport has the authority to impose
higher standards of security than TRANSEC itself imposes" which is
ridiculous and frankly in this case - totally erroneous as it is not a
security issue but a logistical one.
We are in the process of producing a letter expressing our displeasure
in a way that we hope will force the issue our way to TRANSEC's
Director.
In the meantime, what we need from members are detailed reports
(preferably with an MOR as these are pre-flight stress inducing events
if you are to fly post incident), including dates, times, specific
terminals and channels used etc as a result of related incidents.

[toratoratora]

The incoming Director General for Civil Aviation (UK),reporting directly to the Transport Secretary,is,for the first time, an Aviation bod (Peter Griffiths, well known to many in the LoCo sector). Hopefully, he can use some clout to sort out this pitiful mess.
Perhaps it needs a few occurrences of crews refusing to operate due to the 'stress' imposed by Airport security to make the Airlines (I say again, the Customers) actively chase this subject as their OTP begins to suffer...

[His dudeness]

"The answer, hotmetal, is that there are other flyers who may transit the UK in similar circumstances, but they may only take 1 bag as they don't have a UK issue ID."


How charming, a traditional, warm british welcome to those not having a UK ID..

If I COULD choose, I´d definetely wouldn´t cross the channel northbound...

[carousel]

Well i understand what a UK ID is but I don't know what Full ID is


Well Hotmetal it's just as well that the "Security Monkees" do!

[Shiny side down]

Unfortunately, there are a few of my colleagues that have not been issued a pass yet(licence/id is used to access airside).
Staff on temporary passes I can see being treated as full blown terror suspects.
But it's a start.

As for the traditional warm British welcome. I think you'll find that not all of Britain subscribes to this crap. (have a review of this thread, and you'll see for yourself) It's simply a matter of the wrong people making bad decisions, implemented by power-hungry middle people, using cheap labour, with poor procedures and no latitude for common sense.
The rest of Britain would, I have no doubt, provide you with a very warm welcome. Just don't try to smuggle in a large tin of shaving foam. We (or to be exact, they) would rather sell you 2 small tins instead.
:O

[spannersatKL]

Surely a simple solution would be for the same rules to apply to the neddys in the DfT? (Or should it be dAft) Same so called security on their place of work, same stupidity getting in to work each day, tea flask confiscated etc. should focus their minds a little and then the 'minister' responsible would see what is really happening out there? There again probably he's (or is it a she) never actually had to move in the real world for a few years? :mad:

[eagerbeaver1]

FFR - I could not agree more, I say the exact same thing every day.

I confused one of the chimps when converting 170g of yoghurt into ml. I simply stated that peach yoghurt has a specific gravity of .6 therefore my yoghurt was in fact only 99ml.

His reply was "er" and I strolled off.

Alas it is only one small victory amongst many horrible starts to the day.

On a final note, a friend of my was not allowed to take his milkshake drink with him, he chugged it like being back at UNI - class.

[windytoo]

Fantastic!! I can now take 2 bags on the aircraft.Unfortunately security chopped off both my hands last week as they were the most dangerous items I was taking on board.Still I can always rely on my F/O to carry the bags for me and fly the jet.

[ILS 119.5]

What about filing a CAA 939 which we are all entitled to do, meaning endangering an aircraft and/or its occupants.

[S78]

One thing I've noticed at BHX is that the non-UK crews (KLM, SN Brussels etc) get more hassle from ICTS than the UK crews.

Do overseas crews have access to CHIRPS or do they have their own equivalent?

I suspect not, which means that DFT is only getting part of the story.





S78

[biddedout]

I think part of the problem is to do with the way in which the UK security staff themselves are treated. Minimum wage, cheap and nasty excuses for a uniform, dingy working areas cheapo equipment and long boring shifts (particularly at non public access points). Contrast this with the DUS / FRA / STR experience where security staff there are well turned out in smart uniforms, they tend to work in high quality modern air conditioned building spaces, they have the right equipment including wands removing the need for degrading physical searches and on the whole, they are polite and friendly. This generally provokes a similar response from their customers. The passage through security in Germany feels very thorough, but it is an unhurried, calm and professionally run experience. Their secondary searches closer to the gates also heighten the feeling that they take security seriously and unlike many UK airports, it’s not just a corporate / DFT box ticking exercise.





I am always amused at 05.30 in the morning when the early morning crew rush starts at the security post. If a cart with 500 litres of milk arrives for the retail outlets, it somehow has priority over the crews who are trying to get through for the early morning wave. Still I guess it’s the non explosive type of milk and at least the passengers can drink more lattes while they wait for their delayed flights. :)

Even more amusing the other morning was bumping into Nigel. He was hopping up and down in front of the chief searcher demanding to know why HIS crew were all having to wait in the queue with everyone else couldn’t all go through together. “Don’t you know we have planning and checks to do” he said. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: . Sorry BA pilots, we know you arenot all like that, but there is always one and this one was a classic.:ok:

Obviously the rest of us don't do these checks, we just get on have a cuppa, read the sun scratch our arses and press the starter button. :ouch:

[Litebulbs]

Last weekend, I was coming back from having a fag when the alarm bell went off for my zippo lighter that was in my jacket. I was informed that zippo's are not allowed. My mate had a normal lighter and that was OK. Obviously one highly flammable liquid is more dangerous than another!

The security operatives then tried to disarm the lighter, with a suggestion to remove the flint, so as to make it safe! This was overruled by the team leader, who said the only way I could take the hazardous object through in a safe state, would be to remove the internal workings of the device (remove the foam that holds the combustible liquid!) I said that this lighter was not a new item and had passed literally hundreds of random searches, through X-rays etc. The team leader said "Not On His Watch." I took the lighter back and went back to the safety of land side and took the item back to my car, which is a couple of miles round trip.

"Oh he is not a happy chappie" was the comment that followed me out on my exit, to which I replied...well you can imagine, but said very quietly as not to offend the people who are only doing their job!

The world has gone mad and yes, I should give up smoking!

[PGA]

@ Stewardflyer

My medical says I shall wear corrective lenses and carry a spare set of spectacles. I do just this. Because it says so in my medical in my opinion my 120ml bottle of contactlense solution fals under "essential medicines" and I subsequently have the full right to take this through security.

I was questioned a couple of times in LGW but when I stated it was an essential medicine since my medical presribes the wear of contact lenses they backed then. Had a PH test a few times but they dont bother with that anymore either, maybe this would work for you too?

[ILS 119.5]

I just put up with them now. You could mention something about "how long can I keep the Porsche in the short stay" or "can't wait to get back as my sixth bedroom needs painting". In otherwords comply with the restrictions and wind them up, there will be a far bigger stink when planes are delayed due to security staff being ignorant, rude and full of themselves. To be truthfull and maybe the security staff don't realise but we actually fly the aircraft and if we wanted to crash, we would. Look at eurocontrol and the DMEAN section and also the CDM project you will find that over the next few years security delays will go and the flight crew will have separate screening to ensure we are airborne on time.

[757_Driver]

agree with what ILS said.

Its worth remembering that when this security farce passes, and it will, we will still have the job we love, whereas the security chimps will be back asking "do you want fries with that" and being humiliated by their 18 year old spotty manager.
what comes around goes around.

[ILS 119.5]

As another thought wait until you see that jumped up £5.40 per hour person trying to get on your plane. For sure they will not get on mine. But having said that you will not see much of them on aeroplanes Brighton is nearer and cheaper.

[cessnapete]

Just been refused through LGW pax Security ,when positioning to work with two cabin bags. Detained for a while, and told BAA makes the rules and do not have to obey Dof T directives!!

[SKI]

The security staff 99% of the time are only doing their job,its the rule makes who are the problem. Now the odd 1% make it difficult...not just in security!!!, how many pilots in your company are difficult(polite)!!!!!

Any way the only way to sort this is a day or two of action...ie no flights....Christmas holidays are a good time! Then you would see some publicity!...and then something might be done about it!!!????????????

[BIG MACH]

Transport issues must have a low priority in Gordon Brown's eyes since he has appointed Ruth Kelly as Secretary of State for Transport. Anyone who has followed her career in the Commons will realise that she is heading for the exit.

[Feather #3]

One thing which may be worth pursuing for all airside users is to have a UK national aviation ID card.
While the implementation may be a drama, surely it would take away the hassles caused by individual fiefdoms of security having their own bailiwick and ideas. Thus, pilots and engineers should be able to at least get around trouble free.
Just a thought.
G'day ;)

[Ron & Edna Johns]

One thing which may be worth pursuing for all airside users is to have a UK national aviation ID card.

You mean to say you blokes up there DON'T have such a thing?? :confused:

C'mon down here downunder - boy, can we teach you a thing or two about ASICs and AVIDs.... :ugh:

[Wingswinger]

We are aware that some airports are still considering what the operational implications would be should they make a change to their procedures and thus, at present, there may still be some airports that have not embraced the guidance. In this regard, we are aware that BALPA is in communication with some such airports.

Regards.

Gerald Shanahan

This pearl sums it up, doesn't it? The author, one G Shanahan, seems to be unaware that airports are inanimate objects many acres in extent and as such are quite unable to consider, change, embrace or communicate with anything. Ye Gods! Where do they get these people from?

[The Real Slim Shady]

Feather #3 has hit the nail on the head.

If the UK CAA issued licence holders, pilots and engineers, with ID cards and also issued cabin crew and everyone else - security staff included - it would make chuff all difference to the aircrew but would certainly be less than convenient for everyone else. Then perhaps they would be more " reasonable" and we would have less trouble transiting airports we aren't based at.

More dosh for the CAA too!!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Perhaps one could use this facility?
http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Email_The_PM_Form.asp
If sufficient e-mails were to arrive then the appropriate minister may get summoned to "sort this out ASAP".
Just my 'umble opinion as simple SLF, I would much prefer my flight crew unsearched and unstressed prior to flight.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

[ChrisVJ]

Eagerbeaver1
Your friend was either lucky or privileged as flight crew. We went to Ottawa from Vancouver a few weeks ago as SLF (which is our normal status.) On the way out my wife carried a 6 oz tin of Coca Cola on and no one said a thing. On the way back we were stopped.
"You can't take that on a plane,"
"Oh, I am sorry, it wasn't a problem on the way out. Can I open it and drink it?"
"No, if you open it now we'll arrest you."
Barkin' mad, I tell you, the whole world has gone barkin' mad.

You don't want to get them upset at Canadian Airports either.

[Wrongstuff]

Here's a new one.

Luton security 0530Z with local based CC complete with Ltn ID.

Me Lgw ID, apparantly new DofT ruling Luton won't let me through until they ring the Duty Manager at Lgw and verify my ID.

Give you one guess how that worked at 0530.

Only a year to go before I can get out of this madhouse.

[Shiny side down]

I really find it incredible that our (UK/JAA) licences don't carry a centralised form of photo id/security pass. This could then be tied to a common standard of access, rather than leaving it up to people to make local difficulties.
Lets face it. twice a year forms are completed with licence details confirmed.

A more cohesive form of 'security' is needed.

[Bad Robot]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't that long ago that anyone with the Yellow Striped ( already security vetted) Air Side Pass was allowed virtually unrestricted access to most Western European airports and all UK airports?

What Happened? (before 911)

Money grabbing Local Airport Authorities is what happened, all wanting their share of the Security Pass Cash Cow at £xxx per pass to be renewed every year.
Absolutely nothing to do with Security at all!

Look at all the nail clippers, manicure scissors, nail files, 300ml and 500ml drinks that can be purchased once through "Security" and into the air side shopping malls.

Inconsistent? Yes, we were allowed through crew security channel yesterday with supposedly already security vetted crew food and allowed our 330 ml water bottles but had the 250 ml cartons of Milk for our breakfast cereals confiscated!:ugh:

Security my @rse!

BR.

[747flyby]

I just read an old CHIRP Air Transport which is a confidential reporting publication for Airline Crew ATCOs Mechanics and Cabin Crew.

There were shocking stories about the treatment by security staff.

One story was when a man was being searched and the security person touched his testicals. When he complained the supervisor said they could do whatever they ever they wanted. He asked for the police and the victim was arrested and had to have his employer bail him out and he had a court case hanging over him. Later he was told that he was free of any charges after the police viewed the security videos.

Now how can any democratic system allow this to happen. Some airports I have gone through there are arrogant security personel and treat families like animal who are going through. They seem to enjoy it.

How can it be that you have absolutely no right at all when you end up on someone on a powertrip.

In U.S.A. the security staff are suddenly federal employees and some of them used to work a month ago in McDonalds and treat you badly.
There was a case that security staff in the US were aiming out families from U.K. and Germany. The German Chancelor at the time Gerhard Schroeder took the issue up with the U.S. president at the time.

I know of a Captian going through security in the US after his flight kit came through the X-Ray machine his back was locked the Security Guy took out a tool to bake up the locks. When he stepped forward to open it he was told to step back and they broke it to open the bag. When he asked for a supervisor to complain. The supervisor turned his bag upside down so everything fell out. He said he would complain to higher authorities he was told he wouldnt be able to prove anything.

Now who regulates the security people and supervisors.
How come that they get to behave like gestapo in a democratic country.

I would like to point out that I am for a good security at airports.
However you should not on any circumstances show anyone disrespect or take their dignity away. Courtesy is free of charge and should be used at all times.

[lowbypass]

"From mcdonalds to a federal employee"
They almost all have a complex, WORLDWIDE
A nail cutter is confisicated!
Water!
It is a sensitive issue, what to do?

[Bad Robot]

I wouldn't worry too much, you can always puchase new Nail Clippers and Water once you have gone through "Security" :ugh:

BR.

[sikeano]

Power can corrupt people, Passive complaince is called for when faced with Lemons, The US is worst, I get treated better in Russia,

How Ironic is that

[niknak]

Concur entirely with Sikeano,
smile sweetly, let them carry out the job they are forced to do, remember that the vast majority of them are on the minimum wage and aren't little Hitlers - just doing an impossible job working to impossible directives, working for impossible management.

More importantly, remember that when you've got through the Security checkpoint, after being delayed by 5 mins or less, they'll still be in there earning **** all and you'll be out there earning significantly more and having a much better working life.

[aeroDellboy]

I was coming through Detroit a few months ago and got stopped. The Security guy asked to search my bag, I agreed, he then pulled on latex gloves.

I said 'I'm getting worried now', he replied 'Sir, I don't get paid enough'.

:)

[Screwballs]

I see, so if someone doesn't like their job and earns less than you, they can treat you like dirt and assault you and your suggestion niknak is "smile sweetly, let them carry out the job they are forced to do"

They are not forced to be rude, not wash, touch your genitals, laugh at you, empty your case on the floor, break your personal property etc etc. It is guys like you who allow the security staff to behave like that and so encouraging it and more. :ugh:

[rjay259]

For the first storey,

The Captain whose B@lls were touched, he was arrested for possible assualt, he asked the "security person" to "not do that again" unfourtuneatley he was about to when the captain went to guard his private area.

The security person complained to his senior that the captain struck him.
He got off as there CCTV showed he did not touch the guard, I think i heard that the guard was "spoken to".

If only they could see that they cause more problems than solve and that they are contributing more to safety issues than they stop.

Oh well back to the quagmire.

259

[Captain Kaboom]

The other day I went through security at Heathrow T1 in full Captains uniform (as a passenger).
As the only one in my line I had to take my shoes off, regular passengers not!
I was wondering about that and the "guard'' responded that all personnal always had to do this, who is being protected from whom!

When my laptop came through it was picked up and dropped pretty hard, pissed me off and I asked if he really didn't care at all what the public things about his profession, his answer was; do I look like I give a s:mad:t what I do for a living!
No supervisor in the area, nice one.

[tablelover]

TomCat as indeed most of us have and do on a daily basis.

What to do about it? BALPA start upping the ante and petitoning those in public office to change the ridiculous situation more publically.

If it is necessary to confiscate an offending item be it nailclippers or a suspected bottle of water why is there no further immediate action? Should the individual not be removed from flight until an investigation ensues. The nailclippers are restricted because they are perceived to be possibly used for nefarious acts why let someone off then. The suspected bottle of water/excess amount of aftershave etc may actually be something else and this wont be known until tested etc. So why just throw it away, after all there has been an attempt to smuggle through banned substances. It is strange with the current thinking that the individual is allowed to continue with their duty if the item is removed because it may be something dangerous will they not just ammend their 'plan'.

I do not believe the above should happen but cannot understand why it isnt if we are all perceived as potential terrorists and current thinking and security tactics are continued. It is an absolute disgrace that this situation is allowed to continue by our unions and ultimately ourselves.

[747flyby]

Some years back a SAUDIA B777 was hijacked enroute to Europe and diverted to Iraq. The hijackers were security personel from JED Airport.

An attempt was stopped by security in Algiers, when the head of airport anti terrorist unit was going to hijack a B747. He was found hiding in the cargo compartment.

All this was before sept 11th.

However one wonders with some places.

[Firestorm]

There's a very good and apposite letter in this week's (4-10 December) Flight International regarding airport security. To precis the letter the correspondant suggests that any complaints by crew about the conduct of security staff should be directed to the CAA Aerodrome Standards, and this would ensure that all reports make it to the attention of the UK Department of Transport (who currently claim to have recieved no reports of mis-conduct). Unfortunately I cannot find an online link to the letter, but I dare say that you will find it at the news agent's in your airport this week. You can submit a report to your union (BALPA or IPF). I was advised at a meeting recently that if you feel there is a genuine flight safety issue an MOR should be filed (this was told to me in the context that no MORs had been recieved, therefore there was no problem with regard to flight safety).

[S78]

Head of Aerodrome Standards Department
Civil Aviation Authority
Safety Regulation Group
Aviation House
Gatwick Airport South
West Sussex
RH6 0YR
Fax:(+44) (0) 1293 573971
Aerodrome Standards also has offices at two other CAA locations; Manchester and Stirling.
Manchester Regional Office
Civil Aviation Authority
Safety Regulation Group
Aerodrome Standards Department
Atlantic House
Atlas Business Park
Simonsway
Manchester
M22 5PR
Fax:(+44) (0) 161 216 4599
Stirling Regional Office
Civil Aviation Authority
Safety Regulation Group
Aerodrome Standards Department
7 Melville Terrace
Stirling
Scotland
FK8 2ND
Fax :(+44) (0) 1786 448030






S78

[Shiny side down]

Ah, excellent. the Stirling office is only a couple of miles from me. I didn't realise there was one. I wonder if they take 'walk-in' customers?