DHL aircraft under attack

[Rambomouse123]

Today i heard there was a DHL aircraft under attack in Iraq and apparently it is the third one since July. Can anybody confirm the story.

[joehunt]

That would fit as it is a war zone after all.

Tombstone regulation comes to mind here. It will continue to be safe until an aircraft is shot down (resulting in fatalities), then said company will deem it unsafe, for a period, then flights will be resumed.

This of course is another glaring example of pilot's unable to "stick together" as a group to not only enforce decent salaries but on matters of safety, which is even more disturbing. You can guarantee there wont be one rule broken on those flight decks and all sops will be obeyed and carried out to the "letter" and all departures as published. Why?? Because of matters of safety!! Then WTF are they doing operating in a WAR ZONE? Is this not a safety related matter? Corporate greed guys, that's what it is. I wonder how much more money you are being paid to go in there, or are you ordered to go by some fat b:mad:d hiding behind a desk?

Maybe I have got it all wrong.:ugh:

[Rambomouse123]

as it always happens. will see if we get this story right .:\

[underread east]

Would Joehunt care to ammend his post to "anOTHER a/c gets shot down."???

If DHL are still operating here, his prophesy has already been proven true....

Stay safe out there. UE

[joehunt]

Amended with additions Sir!

[iriemaan]

yep a mortar shell landed one gate over from where they (turbo prop) were parked in Basrah in July.
today heard that 'the boys had a truck bomb shake the plane' (727, but don't know where in Iraq)
don't forget yer flak jackets, lads.:uhoh:

[Secure Corridor]

About a week ago, a 727 had a terrible shake while parked in Mosul. The mortar landed within 60 meters of the right wing! The crew thought a truck had hit the acft in the back.

Mortars impacts have been observed there several times before that incident, since the acft is parked close to the fence and the airport is surrounded by the city.

The airline director and the inspector at the civil aviation authority ( the little king ) are still very happy with safety conditions there and have not suspended the flights.

The airline director is putting enormous pressure on the crews to continue the flights to Mosul and threatened to terminate whoever does not want to get the job done. A lot of pilots are still refusing to fly to Mosul.

The acft in Basrah was actually hit by debris of the mortar and was damaged. The crew was at the acft at the time, but luckily was not hurt.

The truck bomb yesterday in Balad was reported as a controlled explosion by DHL security, although it resulted in several fatalities!

Supposedly, DHL in Germany would allow flights to Iraq only if the safety conditions are satisfactory!:oh:

[The mickey mouse]

What about the February attack, when the 727 chief pilot approached into Mosul and was fired upon with a mortar at 150 agl prior to touchdown?

A report was filed and was kept confidential.To this date , still no news about any incident in Mosul.

The airline director still believes ,that landing in Mosul is safe, even though he now requires the crews to wear personal protection equipment.

Supposedly, there is a secured corridor that should allow a safe approach, BUT the americans have denied it ever existed due the lack of military resources.

Go figure!:{

[JW411]

I don't quite know where this thread is heading but are any of you out there really trying to tell me that being attacked in Iraq would come as a surprise to any of the crews who have decided to operate therein during the current climate?

If so, then they are immensely naive or they are being paid a lot of money!

I got the "being shot at bit in the Middle East" out of the way when I was in the military. There simply isn't enough money in the world to persuade me to do it in my leisure (civilian) time!

[BIG MACH]

A German company will authorise its crews to operate in a war zone, but the German government will not allow its military personnel to go to the front line in Afghanistan in support of a NATO operation. The DHL crews should send white feathers to Angela Merkel.

[bobby7272]

it would be interesting to find out the details of the attack on the turbo prop .this is serious especially if an A/C was damage in the process. what about the pilots? where they close to the A/C ? these are questions to be answer since i am pretty sure people less ordinary than myself are probably reading this. :ugh: . what can i says guys be carefull out there it is a war after all.

PS thinking of it, maybe if it help i will send this thread to your news papert o see what they can dig up.

PS (little King )???????????? any explanation:\

[Angry Grannie]

Achtung! I am upset with your CAA guys. It must be lenient in my opinion. Shame! I don't see the German CAA authorizing such flights.Where is your Authority?

I believe DHL is having double standards when it comes to safety overseas. Don't you have someone in charge of the safety of your work place?

I hope someone will be able to stop this non sense before there is a loss a life! I remind you that your Airbus crew was extremely lucky to survive.Can't DHL learn from past accidents?

Seriously,your lives are worth much more than that.

[neil armstrong]

DHL is german owned but the German CAA has nothing to do with it ,im not sure what airline is opperating these flight ,it might be a spanish one or one based in Bahrain.
DHL doesnt care about the safety they care about the money

Neil

[bobby7272]

i heard they don't have a director of safety anymore for at least 4 months. I think no one is crazy enough to take this position. or maybe you should give it to you Airline director who is maintenance director as well i hear:ok:

[BasraBandit]

Yes , A aircraft sustained damage from IDF[Mortar]on the ramp at ORMM. Lucky the crew had PPE.[personal protection equipment].

P P E for Iraq crews .

1 RayBans :ok:

2 Condom :ok:

You are good to go boys

Safety 1st :ok:

Bye

[Baghdad Buzzard]

The DHL "airline" director obviously has no clue what he is doing! Again. (I could comment on the "maintenance" of the fleet but will reserve that for future). Okay, so he flew to Mosul and spent a night in the military base, BIG WHOOP!! Try flying into and out of said base regularly. Bet he had to change his underwear on landing anyway.

The fact remains that regardless of how many measures you take on the ground, that the REAL danger is while in the air, on approach and departure. All very well to have published company "procedures" regarding arrivals and depature from these airfields. Management know all too well that the DHL procedures are hardly ever followed due to the volume of traffic and US military controllers giving absurd instructions like "descent to 4000ft" while still 10-15 NM out from any given field. As long as the job gets done.. Worse still, some DHL pilots actually comply with these ATC instructions! It boggles the mind why anyone would be so stupid as to not realise that, as soon as one of the DHL aircraft get shot out of the sky, while tootling along at 4000 ft AGL over very hostile territory, that DHL and the "life insurers" will wash their hands clean of any liability by reminding your grieving widow and children/parents that you did not follow company procedure and that they are, "unfortunately" not entitled to any financial payout.

I say, comply with the procedure, if unable to complete the full procedure due to traffic etc, divert and return to homebase. Watch the pressure mount when you actually comply with written company procedures and the job does not get done.... I believe that you would be "invited to resign" by the airline manager rather quickly, as demonstrated by him recently when crew refused to fly to Mosul after the mortar attack. Same goes for flying into Iraq at night, WRITTEN DHL company procedures state clearly that no night flying in Iraq is allowed, how is then that certain flights are planned into Iraq at night? How is it that certain crew accept these flights? Because the usual spin is "that particular field is perfectly safe, even at night", okay, which of the other DHL procedures can we choose to ignore then in the future??

[Dogma]

Sounds dangerous and not for the faint of heart.

The danger money you DHL Pilots get for these operations must be amazing:ok:

[deaddonkey]

Danger Pay????? Are you serious, Iraq is not dangerous AB proved it .Get real buddy! This is just a job and nobody here deserves danger pay.
Besides if it was that dangerous one would expect better maintenance, not 4 engines in 6 months and C checks done in Addis Abbaba where any box can be ticked for the right amount.:=

[Fox3snapshot]

What about the February attack, when the 727 chief pilot approached into Mosul and was fired upon with a mortar at 150 agl prior to touchdown?

Mate, if they are capable of aiming a mortar at an aircraft approaching at 150 aggles, sorry dude...but those cats need to be out of there as that is bloody impossible!!!

An RPG, Recoilless rifle, Strella or similar, but a mortar...pffft yeah right!!

Once on the ground, yup, they are fair game! :hmm:

Now is the DHL contract run under 'DHL' callsign or are they using their other pseudonyms like "PHG" "British Gulf" and the list goes on.....:rolleyes:

[joehunt]

I cant see what all the fuss is about. Well I never saw any dead bodies, so it must be safe! Right?

Now you good chaps, go back to work so I can continue to make money, while I dodge the flak from behind my desk.:}

[Ignition Override]

It amazes me that civilian pilots are willing to fly into a war zone.

How can safety standards go any lower? There must be no more 'line in the sand'.

After the frightening return in the A-300 with all hydraulic systems lost, it was my impression that European DHL pilots refused to go back. Were they offered just a little more money, or what?

They are not on a strictly "military mission", are they?

Somebody is earning lots of money, while winning a lucrative bet with the pilots' inability to stand together and say "No.". They can now be pushed into anything, if they are "pushovers".

[AfricanSkies]

The official line of our company is that "Iraq is not a war zone".

[Salaamahdontlikem]

Looking at the statistics in front of me, from Jan 1st 2007 until Oct 19th 2007, there were 124 attacks (mortar and rocket) on BIAP (Baghdad Airport), 115 at Basrah, 113 at Balad, 103 at Mosul, 89 at Talil, 88 at Tikrit, 66 at Tal Afar, etc.

Thirteen civilian aircraft damaged since Jan 1st 2007 on ground at Iraqi airfields.

Seventeen MANPADS attacks on civilian aircraft since Jan 1st 2007, four hits, none destroyed.

Beleiev me, buddy, it IS a warzone.

[GearDown&Locked]

... and people still want to fly there? :ooh:

[bobby7272]

you guys are crazy to accept these conditions. you should all unite (if that is possible with the Venezuelan) and confront managment.if it doesn't workout go higher up , let say Germany for exemple and tell them the kind of ops you are under and trust me some people will loose there job Mick.:ugh:

[MrAnderson]

As always pilots fill chairs to satisfy there own personal requirements and need I spell out all those reasons, however in this case each of them are making their own conscious decision to fly to a very dangerous area and with all the inherent risks, that area launches.

The pay maybe great ...danger pay hmmmm... try if they are lucky percentage bonus on goods safely delivered otherwise certain individuals who classify themselves as experts will make a company statement aimed, more accurately than any mortar, at the Captain before he departs with his crew....A threat analysis has been made for aerdrome xxxx and military sources have confirmed the area is now secure for our continuing operations. The situation will be closelymonitored.

DHL is a freight company and they have product to move and as long as there are drivers prepared to take on the poor aim of hot metal whilst they remain encased in their cold tube lets just hope your friend, relative, loved one is not on the receiving end of tragic news when the :mad: get their aim right.

Good luck drivers and lets be thankful we are not hearing the news that we have heard before, afterall DHL is a major sponsor of life saving... surf life saving that is.

[Don't Have Laws]

I heard, that yesterday again, there was a very grave incident. A mortar landed in Mosul at the exact location where the B727 parks, but luckily it landed on the spot 45 minutes before the arrival of the aircraft.

Of course, as usual, nobody from Air Traffic Control bothered to inform the crew until they landed and parked the airplane. It is obvious, that the daily security briefs from DHL security IN Iraq are an absolute joke ,as always, and provide no safety at all.

DHL management has pretented so far ,despite a pattern of strong evidences,that the airplane is not being targetted, and that these incidents are just random.

To me, the managers have shown serious negligence ( criminal negligence in my opinion ) and incompetence. These incidents are extremely serious and life threatening. The people responsible for ordering these flights are knowligly taking chances with the lives of the crewmembers while trying to hide the dangers to them.

I am also extremely disappointed by The Saudi CAA, which doesn't act to prohibit such unsafe operations.

[bobby7272]

apparently a lot of 5 resigne today and a few more are on their way out .
really wonder what your managment is doing ????

[GlueBall]

It's ok to bitch and to complain! But the bottom line is that DHL nor any of its contracting carriers are part of any state sponsored compulsorary service entidies, military or otherwise, which would make anybody fly if they didn't want to. Nobody is ripping the shirt off your back to drag you into a cockpit, it's not an air force.

There is alternative employment: There are beau coup jet jobs out there, especially in the orient; . . . air conditioned, low stress environment with smiling, young, eager beaver cabin dolls. No need to be stuck in a war zone. :rolleyes:

[nigegilb]

Do DHL insist on having fuel tank protection in their aircraft?

If not, then you are in a flying bomb.

At least request it, should make the job of the lawyers that much easier afterwards.

[factsman]

With everything that's going on with the DHL pilots and operations in Bahrain.. I wonder how long Kalitta decides maybe someone else should do the flying, since the USPS contract belongs to Kalitta anyway. I'm sure both them and DHL Bussels would love to know how f:mad:d up and unsafe things are there. Rumor has it the director of maintenance himself was heard telling the mechanics to sign off on a cracked cargo door on one of the 727's in order to keep it flying.. If that's true that son of a :mad: needs to be fired and have his :mad: kicked.

[To hover is Divine]

Hang in there all the DHL boys, there is lot's of light at the end of the tunnel. Soon we will get rid of the bonus greedy Directors and Rambo Managers and channel the correct money to the special boys doing the actual job. It is going to be worth waiting for.
:=:ugh::D:D:D:ok:

[factsman]

Things are starting to get so bad at DHL Bahrain, that pilots are starting to resign on a regular basis even if they don't have another job lined up. Like they say, you can always get another flying job, but you can't get another life or body part:eek:

[PA-28-180]

First, I'm curious on how the heck they get insurance cover on the aircraft...I don't think even Lloyd's would write cover! Also, (and much more importantly) what about aircrew insurance cover?!
As for going into a war zone, I think we all know that this ain't new. During Vietnam, my father was chief engineer on tankers hauling a few bajillion gallons of avgas up the saigon river. He told me that all the way up to the port, he would hear bullets pinging off the hull, they were hit by RPG's and had a few morter rounds splash river water all over them. He DID get hazard pay, but he also had a really, really good union behind him.
For the comment about a morter hit on an aircraft stand (when the A/C was not there, thank God)...I would think that they would move the parking stands around? Otherwise, all someone needs to do is survey the sites for the morter teams and BOOM!
Stay safe guys!

[Ignition Override]

This is difficult to believe. One terrible hit a few years ago with a Stinger SAM, + or - some Katyushas or RPGs are not enough?

Why cannot DHL pilots stand together and say NO flights to/from Iraq? If Iraq is safe, then why refuse ANY aircraft-anywhere-due to an inop APU, generator (in bad weather), anti-skid or auto-press. system?
Why add ANY extra contingency fuel for weather or a closed runway?
Safety is no longer the clear priority.

How many pilots there have children?
They will visit one or two of you and leave flowers on your grave: Blumen auf dem Grab hinterlassen. Will your life insurance pay your family well if you are killed in a war zone?
Who will your widowed wife marry and sleep with after they lower your tight coffin deep into the ground?:hmm: Schlaf gut da unten bei den Wurmen im Sarg.
European girls are often quite attraktive.

In the late 80s or early 90's, a civilian Transamerica Airlines (L-382) C-130 was approaching a mining strip in western Africa (Zaire?). The "pro-western" guerrillas (Unitas?) got excited and shot up the plane. It started a fire which created lots of smoke after landing. The First Officer died in the plane, but the others rode hundreds of miles simply to find an airport somewhere to go home. Transamerica had never installed the proper radio on board which thereby prevented the crew from chatting with the mining strip about the situation.

See my point? Those were "pro-western" guerrillas-the good guys.
Good luck in Baghdad.

Goeden Avond Neil Arm.

[mumsilein49]

Is it a fact or rumour that the greedy managers will be fired soon?
Which managers are you referring to, the Middle East ones or the European?
There is certainly the same breed at work in BAH, BRU or EMA.:\
My suggestion: Inform the big boss of DPWN or the supervisary board of DP in Bonn and tell them what`s going on in the famous world of DHL.
Cheers

[To hover is Divine]

Not a fact yet, but will soon be, definitely the under qualified clowns in Bahrain. What is happening there is f:mad: criminal and they must think they are dealing with slaves. One thing they have to realise that a first officer in a spiral descent with 19 targets on the TCAS AND THE RANGE SET AS 10 MILES, makes more quality decisions in that descent than they would ever make in their entire career.
Watch the press!:=:=:=:D:D:):):)

[bostonpilgrim]

Why did these people volenteer to work out there then???, they knew the areas into which they would be flying.
MONEY. Bottom line.
They now see what has been an everday occurrance for the past four years as an excuse to push for even more money. Its all well and good trying to pass the blame on everyone else. Hello, take a good look in the mirror. Thats right, theres the reason, you and your greed took you out to those places.

As a previous poster mentioned no one is dragging you into the flight decks to fly, you chose to fly.

No point in whinging about it, when you only have yourselves to blame..

[latetonite]

Things can be done if the danger can be assessed. Apparently several measurements were in place after the A300 attack, and the danger was "minimal" . As later the whole safety measures proof minimal, uneffective or none existing, and the security and ATC proves a laugh, people want to leave. Normal. By now this must be clear to all pilots operating there. A few years back it still had to be discovered, by experience.

[AfricanSkies]

Money? We get GBP2500 a month & no benefits.

[factsman]

In response to bostonpilgrim.. Yes you are very correct, we all did decide to come out here to fly into war zones and knowing the possible danger involved in the destinations we go to. However the problem we are having is maybe not so much of the military activity but of the management problems we are having with them lying to us. Telling us a certain aircraft has been fixed, when in fact the only thing which has been fixed is the paperwork. Or telling you how much money you are going to make, when in fact it is much less.. And yes, again you are correct a person should not have to stand around for that and leave.. and that is exactly what people are doing.. Rumor has it that either two things are going to occur once DHL headquarters comes down in the next few days.. Either they will give the pilots and mechanics a better work enviroment or shut the operation down.. By that I mean SNAS, not DHL itself but the sponsor who flies the 727's and go with another company sponsor, or maybe bring the brussel aircraft back.. I think the next few days are going to be very interesting..:confused:

[Tony Mabelis]

Tax free African Skies are the best!!!

[Coleman Myers]

a few of these Bahrain bullies .. I belive one infamous player has moved on but still sits on the board ...

[Don't Have Laws]

In response to bostonpilgrim:

From day one, the pilots of DHL Bahrain have been told, that the flights to Iraq will go only if the airports perimeters are fully secured with threats fully suppressed.

DHL Germany, suppposedly would not allow a flight to a destination, if there was any chance of danger. DHL Headquarters does not accept flights to war zones, and therefore danger pay will never be applicable.

The pilots were guaranteed, that a reliable professional Security Group would monitor continuously the situations at every destination, and turn back the airplanes to Bahrain if any threats were anticipated.

SOPs were supposed to be followed at all times. Minimum safe heights were to be complied with at all times, except during approach and climb out within the secured perimeter of an airport.

DHL Bahrain threatened from day one to fire anybody not willing to fly to Iraq, since there is "no danger" involved and no "non standard" maneuvers or procedures are to be required.

Of course, in real world, things are quite different! DHL did not hire mercenaries and cannot expect its pilots to operate as mercenaries.

An employer cannot break the rules, lie and just tell its employees to leave in case they are not happy.

DHL is probably making a very good profit with this contract.At the same time,it is acting in a dishonest way with its crewmembers.

[eight16kreug]

Just keep in mind guys that they cannot fire you. Slaves have to be sold.:)

[GearDown&Locked]

DHL Bahrain threatened from day one to fire anybody not willing to fly to Iraq, since there is "no danger" involved and no "non standard" maneuvers or procedures are to be required.


If this is true, it's criminal! What is this... the return of the crusades ?!:ouch:

GD&L

[bobby7272]

the issue is not the money.
the problem is all the lies in term of maintenance status and security in Iraq. apparently the big boss told a mechanic to lie to the crew about the cracked cargo door and he got pissed off and resign.
a DHL employee from Afghanistan said a control demolition was performed in Ballad (Iraq) and the the crew should not worry . meanwhile 17 persons died in the perimeter of the airport in a truck bomb.
we had a meeting with him a couple of mouths ago and he said NO NO NO NO to everything we asked. and trust me it wasn't much. and after that he told us that we are going to start flying into Iraq at night ???? he must be f:mad::mad:g joking,or dreaming or he has been dealing with south American slaves for too long to realize that things have changed.
He was even heard saying that he wished all pilots from DHL would resign so he could replace them with more south americanos. well good luck to all of you, and god save us all .

anyway he better wake up soon (and leave) because he is in for a big surprise

[neil armstrong]

Sounds like the standard DHL management mentality.
They dont care about there employees and only want to safe money.
They will never lean.

Neil

[factsman]

The main thing we have to do is stick together.. Of course everyone knows this is not going to happen.. The funny thing is some of my co-workers I approached (not from South America) but from my own country said they would continue to fly to Mosul before SNAS cancelled the trips all together. Their response was "well I'm here to make money, and hey you can get killed crossing the street by a saudi driver".. The first thing that came to my mind was what a complete f:mad:ing idiot.. That's when I responded with.. "well pal you just keep that in mind when your wife and children lose a father". What would be the ultimate (in a perfect world) is to tell management all the planes will sit on the ground until every single one of them is completely checked out.. Of course you will see 3 suck ass crew members walking out on the tarmac to take your flight for you, because, "hey, there here to make money".

[Ignition Override]

Reading somewhere about a C-130 crews' prebriefed wild, "sporty" approach into Baghdad was quite interesting.

Do the terrorists care whether the jet has camouflage or a nice paint job? They only want burned, bloody bodies which make the evening news (and their websites), whether filmed by a French cameraman-for the previous A-300 attack-or not.

The next hit from a Stinger will be quite deadly. I've seen chilling films of the Mujah- firing Stingers which blew off the entire front area of Russian HIND helicopters (the c0ckpit along with the area behind it...:() in Afghanistan in the 80s. Even Soviet Frogfoot SU-25s were destroyed in the air-and their engines probably have much less of a heat signature than a 737 or A-300.

[Don't Have Laws]

DHL pilots don't need to watch movies.

Two days ago, a crew on the ramp obversed a C130 about 2 miles final in Baghdad making very agressive evasive turns close to the ground, while throwing flares.
The C130 reportedly was locked on.

Of course, DHL is not aware of any threat that could affect the safety of the flights to Baghdad.

I hope the Germans are really serious and come here for proper remedial actions.Otherwise, patience will run out and some very serious actions and notifications will be made within the region and overseas.

PS:The inspector in Jeddah must start looking now at the maintenance records and the pile of occurence reports.

[two green one prayer]

I have recently read that Iraquis are being killed while recovering scrap metal from unguarded arms dumps. In any event the country is awash with arms and ammunition abandoned by the defeated Iraqui army.

Thinking back to my own army service I cannot believe that a hostile element could not obtain the modern equivalent of the British three inch mortar and get off a significant number of rounds before being obliged to flee. Granted, the mortar is a spray and pray weapon and in military terms unlikely to inflict significant damage, but again in military terms, the safety standards that apply in aviation are fantastically high.

Baghdad airport is in a war zone and civilians flying into it should be paid accordingly. Even if their managers can see no danger from behind their desks in their home countries.

[factsman]

Good 'ol Al is up to it again.. HZ-SNF had a split flap problem the other day, where the flap gauge was sticking.. With this paticular gauge sends a signal to the flaps causing a split problem.. The crew wanting to get back to Bahrain rather than sleep in Bagdad pulled a circuit breaker only as a fix to get back home.. When reported to maintenance, the on duty acting supervisor downed the plane simply because DHL carries no spare parts, and has to order them from the states.. Mr. Al approached the supervisor and said if the crew pulled the breaker the first time, why can't they continue to do it until the parts arrive.. This is not a rumor, the supervisor told us this himself.. Of course the supervisor told him in so many words to go pound sand.. I guess idiots never learn. By the way 9 mechanics have already handed in their resignations along with 8 pilots.. Of course DHL is not as big as Gulf air, but to scale that amount is really going to hurt.

[Baghdad Buzzard]

This fiasco is turning into nothing short of a soap opera. Is this the typical modus operandi of DHL and DP?

The events, which have transpired over the last few weeks, are more than sufficient reason for any reasonable person to seriously question just what exactly is happening at DHL Bahrain.

I, for one, cannot help but wonder whether DHL Int and DP, are part of what amounts to nothing less than a commercially motivated, sinister plot to make as much money (the contract is reportedly worth several hundred million euros) and grab as much profit while the going is good, knowing full well that it is only a matter of time before one of their aircraft (insured) and aircrews (expendable) are blown to oblivion. Whereupon the ever caring managers will sanctimoniously suspend the operation in the “interest of crew safety”. All the while, telephone lines will be red-hot while they frantically procure the services of some or other desperate third-world operator to continue harvesting the cash. Not that there is anything wrong with making profit, but, when it is done at the expense of safety and decency, I tend to have a problem with the concept.

My question is this: Is DP aware of, and thereby guilty of, in my opinion, the criminally negligent actions of their “managers” (MMc and AB) in Bahrain? Or are they (DP) blissfully unaware of the magnitude of the impending disaster?

A part of me likes to hope that DP are acting on the information and intelligence provided, through MMc and AB, by the so-called “security manager” (KS) who, in my opinion, is either being instructed, once again by MMc and AB, to sugar-coat the security reports coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan or he is just too plain incompetent and stupid to do a proper job of reporting and analyzing the risks involved. A negative security picture would surely force DHL Bahrain to pay hazard pay on a rather large scale to the aircrew. This in turn would impact negatively on the bloated bonus payouts to MMc and AB. Based on the shameful behavior of AB recently where he allegedly instructed mechanics to lie to the aircrew regarding the safety status of a badly cracked main cargo door on a B727 to keep the aircraft on line (making money), I tend to believe that the security reports are deliberately suppressed and/or omitted from the daily briefings which are supposed to be supplied to the operating crews.

The shocking maintenance standards under the leadership of AB, together with the irregularities in reporting and repairing defects and snags have caused a situation where, not only do the majority of aircrew have absolutely no respect for the current management, but also MMc and AB have zero credibility. I believe that this can only be remedied through a FULL audit by DP, Saudi GCA and an independent auditor, as the situation as it now stands is one where nobody knows for sure, how many other serious issues regarding the safe operation of the aircraft in the fleet have been covered up, misrepresented or plainly lied about.

The other theory amongst the crew is that maintenance is unnecessary on what, for all intents and purposes, seems to be viewed by DHL as little more than a manned, revenue generating, target drone.

With all the information available to them, and all the events and incidents, which have recently occurred, I hope that WHEN an aircraft is destroyed, with it’s crew, that DP, DHL Int and the responsible persons in Bahrain are investigated for criminal negligence and punished accordingly. I’m very sure that the press in Europe is going to be asking a lot of questions as to why the tragedy occurred, how it happened and, most importantly: Who is responsible? I can already hear the attorneys rubbing their hands in glee and anticipation. Should make for interesting reading.

The bottom line is, after all, that nobody can force a crewmember to operate in an unsafe environment and that each individual is entitled to chose for themselves whether or not to operate certain flights. I respect the fact that some crew are prepared to continue as normal, but the least that those individuals should be asking of themselves is this: “Am I being compensated sufficiently for the risks which I am taking?” Especially in light of the fact that the company for which those risks are taken, regards you and your profession with such contempt.

Fly Safe Guys.
BB

[mumsilein49]

Hi BB,
If you want to to get your worries transmitted to one of the right persons, here is a mail contact: Andrea Kocsis, Deputy Chair of the supervisary board of DP (Deutsche Post), representing one of the leading unions in Germany at the board. [email protected]
Cheers:ok:

[Secure Corridor]

Let's not forget that DHL Bahrain is operating without a Director of Safety since July.

[To hover is Divine]

Hi Mumsilein49

Could you confirm the email address given: [email protected].

I tried that but it failed.

[Angry Grannie]

Under the current management, I don't see any chance of finding a director of safety.

I wonder how long this illegal situation can be tolerated.

[factsman]

It's so funny, Alan can't be found anywhere.. He knows he's in deep
s:mad:t. Come to think of it, there hasn't been anymore pilot meetings with management. What can they possibily tell us. It's sad, out director of operations is a wonderful man who only wants the best for our pilots, and all this poor guy does is bang his head against the wall with these idiots. I wonder how long it will be before he decides to throw in the towel and leave. Then we're doomed. But don't worry we can still rely on our Chief pilot :sad::sad::sad:.

[To hover is Divine]

Morning Angrie granny and Factsman and all the special boys at Dhl. Things behind the scenes are going extremely well and you guys take it easy and fly safe. The Supervisory Board of DP DO NOT TAKE THIS LIGHTLY, and they do not care a :mad::= about MMc and AB(hide&seek) and all their appointed co-workers's stolen bonuses when their investments are at stake. Soon the abovementioned clowns will realise, what all aircrew already knows, how small the island really is.
Support the DFO, he needs you big time and stand like one man for once, you will never look back:D:D:D:D:D:D:ok:

[mosulmouse]

Secure Corridor have just heard the F 16s overhead as well as Dumb & dumber were spoted in the RSA :DTell the lads the corridors are safe for a while:ok:

Deaddonkey Danger Pay...Its a Skills allowance..$$.....usd p/h:ugh:

Dont Have Laws .DofS should be easy enough ..Pick someone fill out the forms and send them off:=

As for the savings on the C Checks := Perhaps the unforseens go into next years budget:ok:

B B best post and sum up ever .:ok:Could you repost it in brail for The Blind Brussells Mice:D

[bobby7272]

I heard today that a new first officer on the B727 with no time on type was put on a flight to a category C airport in Afghanistan with out being checked out fresh from the sim and with no safety pilot on board. Can someone tell m if this is legal????? :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:


from bad to worst

AB ,MMC going down in flames

[factsman]

You would be very surprised at all the questionable activity that goes on at this operation. Any where else in the world you would probably be violated or lose your license.. Welcome to DHL Bahrain.. It's just a matter of time before the bomb explodes on this rouge operation.

[Dogma]

Any civi-pilot that flys in/out of these hot airports get zero sympathy from me.

The Directors of DHL, etc get the green - you appear to get FA

Who are the muppets?

[To hover is Divine]

Come see for yourself D.

It could be a life changing experience :rolleyes: :yuk:

Morning all,

Trust all well with the DHL boys. Have a safe day and take care.
The, threat filled; iron fisted; no compassion; will replace you with cheap pilots; regime days are counted. MMc, AB and everybody in ill structured management positions who did not resist them with all they had, will have to give an account for their actions.

Stand together for once because your job will not be on the line and we can structure a team that will work together and earn real money and spend MMc and AB's bonusses in Fiddler's.

Keep your paperwork handy, just in case, cause LT in Human Remains(HR) WILL NOT HAVE A GOOD RECORD.

Let's see who remains :D loyal to the MMc's, AB's, SR's and even those we do not know about.

Have a great day!

:= :D ;) :ok:

[bobby7272]

this one is for the GDN [email protected] ([email protected])

send the thread

[Tex]

You bunch of whiney little girls.
If you don't want to fly in a combat zone...don't...if you don't have the nuts to do it, don't do it, if you have the nuts to do it, do it. It is that simple.
I flew there for 12 month's straight...it ain't that bad.
The MANPAD attacks are highly exagerated...there has only been one documented MANPAD attack...the rest were helicopters, and there is a new weapon...that's all I can say
I would have no problem flying my civ 747 into theater, even with the green AF controlers.
You bunch of little pu@## little girls.
If progress is to be made, commerce has to continue. That means freight has to come and go.

[Baghdad Buzzard]

TEX - Okay, were all very very impressed, you are such a man....

[factsman]

Hey all you guys, it's great the little raise we got in salary and housing, and the 3000 BD a kid for schooling. But just heard this will probably be short lived.. DP is very concerned about what has happened and is starting to look at other options to cover the flights. I really don't know how true all this s:mad:t is, but one of my mats in Brussels already heard the rumors of the mess out here and the crap which is going to come down from DP.. Lets keep our fingers crossed this is just a rumor.. Off to God's country!!

[Best foot forward]

Tex you must have a modified seat to take kahunas that big. :yuk:

[factsman]

Hey guys, Tex is really Alan in disguise:cool:

[BIG MACH]

Whilst I would not wish to fly for a company run by such appalling management as appears to be the case at DHL, like Tex, I would not object to operating into a war zone in my 747. I have just watched the Remembrance Day service and amongst the groups represented were sailors from the Merchant Navy. They are testimony to the fact that you do not have to be serving in the military to stand and be counted. If ever the chips were down I would not like to have to rely on Ignition Override or any of the contributors to this thread who follow his line. I am surprised that he is an American. He reads like a European.

[RUMple4skin]

I sympathize with you Pilots at DHL. Bad management will not breed confidence. I have seen these bully tactics too often in my carrer. Bobby 7272 are you a Pilot or a wannabe? This thread has been interesting and has drawn aviators from all over to post.

The fellas that are doing the real flying are probably so d:mad:n knackered and pumped with adrenalin that they only have time for a quick stubby then sleep till the next sortie. To you guys I say "break a leg" and fly safely so that you live to slurp yet another stubby and give your management the bird if they shove you around too much.

[factsman]

The other day a C-130 going into Balad airport in Iraq believed they were under attack by a ground to air missle.. One of the DHL pilots recorded the ATIS saying this. A captain even wrote an incident report to management about this incident, and the worries of the DHL Bahrain pilots about flying into this location.. And whats the response, "you guys don't want to cause waves, Because than all DHL will do is get the Russians to fly it, like they are doing in Mosul". This fellow pilots is bull:mad:. Management is even thinking of approaching the pilot group in flying into Bagdad at night for the holiday seasons. Apparently the next pilot meeting that's due to come up with the upper management is going to ask us to do this..:= Don't fall for it..

[Cowboy SA]

"Ground air missile", that sounds pretty scary!

Is it true that midair collisions risks are very high during the spirals with heavy traffic overhead the airports?

Both aircraft involved in a Resolution Advisory must have already extreme maneuvering, and not many escape solutions, especially with lots of other traffics very near as well.

TCAS must be the primary instrument there?

Are UAVs visible on TCAS?

[factsman]

Alan has offered the 727 pilots an extra 250 US dollars if they fly into Mosul. He claims the USPS contract is in jeapody of being lost if we don't. However, we all know for a fact Mike is willing to pay up to 500 to fly there.. I guess we all must have STUPID written on our faces.. How much do you value your safety?

[BaghdadMouse]

Hi Mickey I saw your planes:D high in the sky yesterday but they didnot desend below 15000':*??

If you send the Russians in their shineyTU 204 please add some Caviar with the chesse:ok:Standingby for delivery .:E Mouse out:ugh:

[BaghdadMouse]

Morning this site is for those heading North or East from OBBI .MANPADS (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MANPADS&redirect=no)):=

[Earl]

Strong rumour floating around that a Tristar freighter will start flying for DHL soon in Iraq.
Any news on this or is someone putting out bad info?

[factsman]

DHL management had decided that all 727 aircraft going into Bagdad and Balad must conduct their spiral downs from 15,000 feet instead of the normal 8 - 9,000 feet which has been going on for the past year.. Only problem is, the military don't conduct these types of approaches anymore. The end result was 3 flights returned back to Bahrain without dropping off their cargo because the pilots refused to except any lower altitudes to spiral down. What is the pilot to do when DHL (for insurance purposes )saids you have to follow this company procedure and the military saids you can't spiral down from 15,000. The only thing that can be done is return, and screw up the sort for the next couple of days.. Man I love it when a plan comes together.:ok:

[bobby7272]

there was an attack in ballad yesterday from 4 mortars and the crews had to evacuate to bunkers anyone can comment????:D:D:D

[factsman]

As the crew were waiting to have their aircraft loaded. The airfield came under attack when 3 - 4 mortars landed close to the cargo ramp where the plane was parked.. At the same time the front Guard gate to the airfield was raided by the enemies and a big gun fight broke out with the US troops.. The 727 DHL crew and military personnel ran to the shelters for safety.. Looks like pretty soon all locations in Iraq are going to have to pay the flight crews $250.00.:eek::eek::eek:

[RUMple4skin]

Sounds like a change of underpants is the order of the day. How is Bagdad lately?

[GearDown&Locked]

Looks like pretty soon all locations in Iraq are going to have to pay the flight crews $250.00
?? I guess that would cover all underware laundry then...

[factsman]

I just heard the Director of flight operations has or is going to resign.. Is this true.. If he does I don't blame him with all the s:mad:t this poor man had to deal with because of Alan and Mic. Oh my god who will be the new D.F.O. I hate to think about it:{