Guimbal Cabri G2

[No Foehn]

The French aviation press this month reports details of the first flight of this new 2 seat piston-engined helicopter planned for JAR27/FAR27 certification and full scale production in 2006. The flight of 1h15 at Aix-les-Milles LFMA apparently went well and is the start of an 80h test programme. The designer, Bruno Guimbal, is formerly of Eurocopter R&D.

Notable features are the high inertia three-bladed fully articulated rotor with unlimited life composite blades, shrouded tail rotor, pretty carbon composite fuselage and crash-worthy seats and fuel system. The engine's a Lycoming (no-one says which one) with electronic ignition and silencer on the exhaust.

The helicopter has been chosen by Eurocopter as the basis for development into a drone.

http://helimat.free.fr/2005/avril/20050401/Daniel_Liron/images/3063_l.jpg

Pictures at http://helimat.free.fr/2005/avril/20050401/Daniel_Liron/pages/image003.html

Company press release at
http://helimat.free.fr/2005/avril/ 20050401/Daniel_Liron/Communique_Cabri.pdf

I'll post a translation when I get time if anyone asks.

[Recuperator]

A good looking little machine. Would like to see some specifications and performance on it.

Any chance it could be competition to the Robinson R22?;)

[No Foehn]

A four page article in the French aviation monthly "Aviasport" reports Guimbal claim better flight characteristics than the R22 (but of course they would) and cruise of 100 kts.

They are convinced Robinson are abandoning the R22 and aim to fill the hole in the market. They say they will be able to build one machine a week soon after starting production.

[Ian Corrigible]

Good find. I have been told that the aircraft was developed by former Eurocopter engineers (hence the fenestron), with the tacit support of Marignane.

The EADS VTUAV is the Orka-1200, under consideration by the French armed forces.

I/C

[No Foehn]

There's more than tacit support - EADS is an investor and a sub-contractor making the carbon composite main structure.

The Aviasport article also reports a greater useful load than the R22, externally accessed baggage compartment, and even a/c as an option. They also have a photo of the pilotless clone they're developing for Eurocopter.

[Fay Slag]

In my opinion it looks like a good machine. Its refreshing to see someone design a new two-seater piston and give Robinson and Schweizer a run for their money.
I'm not implying that it should only be used for training but if it fits the bill, why not? Let's hope its not massively slow and uncomfortable (Schweizer) and is more forgiving than the Robbo.

I also quite liked the look of the Ukrainian machine that was posted on here a couple of months ago, but since the designer decided to put a car engine in it, I think we can rule that one out.

I wish the designer of this French/ Italian machine the best of luck.

Fay

[Freewheel]

A quick look at the photos suggests quite a bit's been done since the initial prototype was produced. I always understood the engine was an O-320, but they could always put more power in if it was justified...

I just hope they learn the lessons from the preceding designs in this area of the market, include a bit of inertia into the rotor system (the Enstrom's great here, but midway between the Ennie and the R22 should be enough) and ensure that the crashworthiness doesn't depend on how much luggage you have.
90-100 Knots would be great for 240 odd nm with 2pob, cup holders, donut device etc.

On a serious note again, how about including the cyclic & collective grips from the EC120? The guards seem awfully flimsy - except on the hydralics switch - but it had enough buttons for all the options one could possibly want & it's not going to require a specific build. Might be a method of including a non-open throttle setting for starts too....

I did really like the look of the Bongo, but I was always concerned that the engines might get expensive - thus the problem for anybody wanting to produce a contender in this market. Mind you if the engine proves to be OK, it might be worth trying for the Cabri too.

Anyone else thought it's going to be known as the Cab Ride? How about EC105 or EC110? Can the person who suggests the chosen name get a free one????

[Vfrpilotpb]

If this little Heli entered the Eurovision Song Contest it would win on Looks alone, for such like as Moi, the simple PPL(H) it sounds like it fits the bill!

Breath of fresh Air!!!


Peter R-B
Vfr

[Head Turner]

With a proper rotor head that will allow more scope. The S300 will take some beating.
A starting process like the Robbo will give it a lead. Incidentally what is the drive system?

[No Foehn]

None of the press articles I've seen nor the press release mention the drive system.

[Teefor Gage]

There is a mention of crashworthy seats and fuel tanks.
Just a thought, but does it also have a crashworthy floor to support the seats - I know it sound obvious, but some manufacturers of recent models have been known to go this route to save some weight!

[Jonp]

Looks a great machine.

Having searched hi and lo for an email address or even a postal address fro these guys, they are very ilusive. Does anyone have any of these?

Jon P

[Ian Corrigible]

Don't believe they have a website yet (it's still a pretty small team) but the postal address is:

Guimbal Hélicoptères
Aerodrome Aix En Provence
Zone Industrielle Les Milles
Les Milles
Bouches du Rhone
13290
France


I/C

[No Foehn]

Teefor Gage

Translation from the Aviasport article:

"Today's certifications, CS-27 for EASA and FAR-27 for the FAA, impose conditions that the R22 would find completely impossible to meet. For example, one sits very close to the floor in the Robinson. The position is unthinkable wih today's certifications. Accident statistics have shown that anti-crash seats save a great number of of occupants. The shock-absorption given by those in the Cabri comply with the latest standards, making survival possible in a crash completely destroying the machine.

Under the cowling, the 4 cylinder Lycoming of the same type as that of the R22, has benefitted from an advanced fit, notably with electronic ignition and matched exhaust system with silencers. The fuel circuit complies with the most stringent crash standards ( in particular no leaks after a free fall of 15m)."

Jonp

The phone book gives the address as :

Hélicoptères Guimbal SA
Chemin de la Badesse
Les Milles
13290 AIX-EN-PROVENCE
Tél : 04 42 39 10 80

Their press release states that no sales effort has yet been launched, but several operators have already expressed interest.

I'll bet they have! The R22 suddenly looks like a dinosaur, doesn't it?

[octavo]

Isn't the rotor disc a bit low off the ground?

It looks to me that you would have to crawl to and from the heli with rotors running.

[No Foehn]

Well, at least you've only got one passenger who has to do the crawling.

Seriously, though, in one of the photos on the link you can just see someone approaching the helicopter from the right with the wheels. It looks like his head's about level with the top of the cabin.

[jellycopter]

I had the good fortune to be a spectator at the first public demonstration flight of this new 2-seat light helicopter at Rouen in France a couple of weeks ago.

I found these pictures on the web and thought some of you may be interested.

http://helimat.free.fr/2005/aout/Rouen/A_cote/1001_Cabri_%20F-WYHG/index.html

I particularly like the blades and rotorhead on this machine, real quality.

EASA Certification, I understand, is imminent with deliveries to customers starting early 2006.

Can't wait!

JJ

[Hilico]

In the last three pictures the left-hand side door is open. Is this part of the demo? Did the pilot get too hot? Did it just pop open?

[Aesir]

Looks nice.

Interesting to see how they fit the aft white navigation lights to the back of the red/green lights on the sides. Good solution.

Does anyone know what engine they use?

[Ian Corrigible]

The engine is a Lycoming 0-320 E2.

There was an interesting thread on this a couple of months back: Cabri thread. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=176159&highlight=guimbal).

I/C

[Head Turner]

You certainly have to hand it to the French that they are tops at helicopter design. They have seen the adverse comments of the R22 and produced what looks like the next light helicopter to be found in the training schools and everyones back garden.
The fenestrn blades are all equally spaced which is unusual now that unequal spacing is found to be quieter.
Looks good and spec looks just right. Lets see the flight performance data now.

[delta3]

Fenestron

As I mentionned in other related tracks, I attended some VH-diagram testing by the DGAC, in Aix in July.

I do remember, but you have to check perhaps the pictures, that the fenetron is assymetric as it should be.

This maybe difficult to see/confirm because it has 7-blades


d3

[bellsux]

From Volare, the Italian aviation magazine who did a story on the Cabri recently.

The Italians claim the donk they saw in their machine was a 360 with a fully automatic electical start.
Empty weight of 420, MTOW 700 kg
VNE 120, cruise at 100.
170 litre tank
got to 10000 ft in just over 7 minutes ( picture shows a very stripped down version when they did this) and reached 21840 ft, breaking the piston engine helicopter altitude record.
Belt drive Eng to MGB
Shock proof tank (I remember when I did the AS350 course in the mid eighties and the frogs said it has a "crashproof tank")

Anyway it's all just from the magazine artical, the Italians from Agusta said I would have no problems getting spares for my 109 as well...

[TheMonk]

http://helimat.free.fr/2005/aout/Rouen/A_cote/1001_Cabri_%20F-WYHG/index.html

So anyone know the latest on this model? Is it being offered yetr? Price? Good, bad, ugly?

Thanks,
Monk

[mesh1matrix2000]

Price 260,000 Euros plus tax. Don't think it has been certified yet, you can order via email of their website. http://www.guimbal.com/

[TheMonk]

Thanks for the link MM2, but it didn't work for me. This is what I get.

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[mesh1matrix2000]

I tested the link just now and it works fine for me. Here is the email address
[email protected]

[Graviman]

Interesting rotor head, with lots of nice expensive castings. I couldn't quite see how the bearing worked inside that Y root. Is it a plain spherical bearing/bush (fully articulated) or is there no flapping movement (hingeless)?

The pitch horn angle suggests hingeless, but with three rotors i would guess it is articulated to avoid 3P vibration. If so, why not stick to cheaper teetering head. :confused:

Notice the strain gages on the red blade set. I guess the machine is still going through fatigue life determination testing. The more i learn about fatigue life prediction using residual strain energy, the more scared i become stressing parts. Maybe that fancy LCD instrument display will have HUMS installed too.
http://helimat.free.fr/2005/aout/Rouen/A_cote/1001_Cabri_%20F-WYHG/images/5IMG_6056.jpg

[No Foehn]

According to a review in the French magazine "Aviation International" the head is semi-rigid, and very similar to that of the EC120. Bruno Guimbal, the designer, was the deputy head of the EC120 development project at Eurocopter.

[Dave_Jackson]

Mart,
EC 120 ~ Rotor Head (http://www.eurocopter.com/ec120/frotorhead.html)

[500e]

I had same page as Monk
Price seems within ball park for new helio with latest gismos But what engine?
Please not a Lycasorus:(

[Graviman]

Ah, thanks guys! I guess they tune the stiffness to keep blade 3/4 wavelength mode below 3P then, while keeping good cyclic control for reduced g manouvres. Nice reliable design, although i wonder about the control forces.

I've dealt with Lord, Trelleborg and Silentblock for spherelastic bearings, and have always been impressed at what they were capable of withstanding. The only problem i've ever come across is that they are difficult to life, especially if you cannot define the exact duty cycle. Failure is easy to spot though from rubber splitting, and the failure mode is nice and progressive.

Dave did you ever get anywhere with your compliant hub design? I always thought this was one of your best ideas.

That fenestron looks interesting in a small helicopter too. How does it handle foward flight, without teetering and delta3? Does the advancing side end up producing most of the thrust, or is that a cyclic servo i see?
http://helimat.free.fr/2005/aout/Rouen/A_cote/1001_Cabri_%20F-WYHG/images/1IMG_6051.jpg

[HOSS 1]

>>>"The more i learn about fatigue life prediction using residual strain energy, the more scared i become stressing parts."


I thought everyone used Miner's Cumulative Damage. Do the cert agencies allow life determination with a residual strain energy method?


The strain gage there is quite standard in flight test programs. Most control system loads can be correlated to PR load.
HOSS

[Dave_Jackson]

Mart,compliant hub designHeck, I've looked at just about every other type of hub design there is, in an attempt to win the 'Nick Lappos Free Lunch Award'.
At the present time a small snack on a paper plate would look good. :)

Dave

[Graviman]

Hoss, I have no doubt the team that designed the Cabri know what they are doing.

Miners law allows you to combine a number of different loadcases to determine the overall fatigue damage, or to determine the life of a component. The problem is working out where each loadcase is on the Stress-Number_of_cycles curve. For stress calcs the traditional method is using the Goodman's diagram, or variations of it, to combine average and cyclic stress into an equivalent cyclic only stress to check against S-N curve. The problem is that this method is not accurate in life prediction, as there is huge scatter in coupon S-N testing.

A more recent development comes from the understanding that even below the elastic limit there is some residual strain after each load application. Basically the material is not perfectly elastic, but always recovers alongs Young's modulus. Consider the 0.2% plastic strain proof stress generally regarded as material yield, if you reach this then unload the component you will have a residual 2000 microstrain. Lets say taking the component to half Ultimate Tensile Strength, then unloading it leaves a residual strain of 1 microstrain. This means you can do this 2000 times before the component reaches a strain where it yields on the next application.

If any of the design engineers that occationally appear from the aether vaccum can offer good practical guidance here, i'm interested BTW. It seems to me that the only chance of producing reliable numbers is to use the fatigue software built into many FE codes. It's a specialised area.

If anyone else is interested in fatigue, here is some general info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_%28material%29

[CentralS]

According to a review in the French magazine "Aviation International"http://www.aviation-international.aero/modules/shop/moteur_recherche.php?news=1&annonce=1&article=1&aff=1

Direct link to the two reviews at bottom of this page:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabri_G2

It's in french, with nice pictures.

[mesh1matrix2000]

According to the developer this Helicopter will have a full EASA cs-27 certification signed this month. More information on their web site will follow along with magazine flight reviews.

[maxtork]

Looks like it made the grade...

http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=4879

If it now has EASA certification I wonder how long before it shows up here in the states.

Max

[Peter-RB]

It seems to have a pretty substantial amount of engineering(almost over engineered) in the Rotorhead, and has nuts and bolts that seem a first glance to far bigger in size that the R22 that this new heli seems to be aimed at, plus the price seems to be in the right ball park also!

About time some one had the ability to compete with Franky the Yankee, it may push him into more spectacular things now!

Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb

Happy new to one and all!!:D

ES: it says in the Lit that it has the Lycoming 0-360!!

[Zero Thrust]

A friend of mine here in France who has ordered one of the 12 that have had deposits paid for reckons that it autos on a par with a Bel 47.

The chap that owns my airfield is a supplier of plastic moulds for it.

Price is more expensive than an R22 so it will be difficult to break into the market.

It does have a dedicated baggage locker in the fuselage.

Have you seen the demo video from Rennes ? Quite impressive and up to D Kenyon H300C level.

http://216.122.254.24/Cabri%20Helicopter.htm

Stills here:

http://www.jiepie.com/files/guimbal/demo_pictures/index2.html

[mesh1matrix2000]

Anyone know where to get a detailed review in English?

[Zero Thrust]

This any help? It also holds some FAI height records.

Two-seat Cabri G2 awarded EASA Certification
On Saturday, December the 15th, Alain Leroy, EASA head of products certification, will hand over to Bruno Guimbal, Helicopteres Guimbal president, the EASA CS-27 certification of their Cabri G2 helicopter, following the company EASA Part-21 certification.

This event will take place during the prestigious grand opening of the new Musee de l’Air et de l’Espace rotorcraft hall, by French minister of defense Herve Morin, at Paris Le Bourget. The new rotorcraft hall is part of the 100th anniversary of first helicopter celebration.

The Cabri G2 is an entirely new two-seat helicopter, featuring for the first time in this category, the modern technologies that make European helicopters success for years.

Its EASA CS-27 certification, the most demanding ever, rewards many safety-oriented innovations : a high-maneuverability composite main rotor, a shrouded tail rotor, crashworthy structure, seats and fuel system, protection against lightning and radio-frequencies, and a digital multiple display.

The complete certification program involved 300 flight testing hours and many ground tests, in a 2 ½ year timeframe.

Helicopteres Guimbal is a 14-people company, located at Aix-en-Provence airport, southern France, created end-2000 by Bruno Guimbal, a former Eurocopter engineer.

It benefited from several research grants, and from many aerospace companies partnership. It is associated to Eurocopter in Vertivision, a joint-venture developing the VSR-700 drone, a derivative from the Cabri-G2, which benefits from a design contract from the Direction Generale de l’Armement.

The Cabri G2 is the first piston-helicopter certified in Europe. This market represents several hundreds of helicopters per year, evenly spread in the world, in steady expansion for 30 years.

The first serial Cabri G2 delivery to its launch customer, the French operator IXAIR, is scheduled first quarter 2008.

The certification aircraft will be flown to Paris le Bourget airport for the event.

[Zero Thrust]

These are the records it holds:

Altitude without payload,6658 metres.
Time to climb to a heightof 3000mt, 6 min 42 sec.
Time to climb to a height of 6000mt, 22 min 6 sec.
www.guimbal.com

[Bravo73]

Altitude without payload,6658 metres.



In old money, 6658m is nearly 22,000ft. Aye carumba! :D

[Spunk]

Found some technical details on the EASA page:

Type Certificate Data Sheet (http://www.easa.eu.int/doc/Certification/Design_Appro/Rotorcraft/TCDS%20EASA.R.145%20Cabri%20G2%20Iss.%201%2014%20Dec07.pdf)

[mesh1matrix2000]

Any views on whether this would be a good purchase. There is little information on the company web site and a lack of detailed reviews anywhere on the web. Maybe its to new and hasn't really hit the starting blocks.

[metalman]

the engine is a 360 lycoming.should prove to be a brilliant machine, lets hope they fit a govenor.

[singesavant]

concerning the governor, it does have one and an automatic system for the carb heat with an STC!

[HELOFAN]

A silenced HIO-360-G1A would be nice to hear wouldnt it.

Future IFR training...?...had a small console didnt it.

mm 100 kts cruise.. mmm yes please.

Cost?

Looks great, Any video of it any where ?

HF

[SawThe Light]

Its a bit off-track but in "bellsux" post above he noted the Italian magazine, Volare, mentioning the Cabri broke the piston engined helicopter record at 21840 ft.

It is interesting to note that a member of the US Army Aviation Board made history way back in November 1958 by establishing three world's altitude records in a Cessna YH-41 helicopter. For one of the records he climbed beyond 29,000 ft (nearly made 30,000) over Wichita.

The YH-41 was the military variant of Cessna's CH-1B piston engined helicopter and was powered by a supercharged 270 h.p. Continental engine.

That's a long way up in a piston ship, more surprising in that it was a Cessna helicopter and it was 50 years ago.

STL

[singesavant]

Guimbal doesn't want to come up with an injection, weight and money concern, for at the end the same efficiency with the automatic carb heat dixit Mr Guimbal.


A message when the team was working on the cetification:

Caracteristics we are working on the certification so numbers are acurates
Max cargo 430kgs (better than what we expected)
Max gross weight 700kgs ( working on the certification)
max fuel 170l 5 hours
lugage compartment 200l/80kgs (not with 2 pax and 5 hours fuel)
cruise speed @ 100% 100kts
economic speed@ 80% 90kts
VNE 125 kts

POH is supposed to come in february 2008

and as you guys do love french language follow the links:

http://www.aviation-international.aero/pdf/Articles_PDF/3AI34-3.pdf (http://www.facebook.com/share_redirect.php?h=10236d071a1abc02a2ad2fc14f48cbf6&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aviation-international.aero%2Fpdf%2FArticles_PDF%2F3AI34-3.pdf&sid=6853378769)
http://www.aviation-international.aero/pdf/Articles_PDF/AI30-2.PDF (http://www.facebook.com/share_redirect.php?h=cb1e53184dad6045e59ea34793baf4d5&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aviation-international.aero%2Fpdf%2FArticles_PDF%2FAI30-2.PDF&sid=6854803537)

for the movie:
http://www.facebook.com/share_redirect.php?h=d77f6d17237da517ad867727490e84ae&url=http%3A%2F%2F216.122.254.24%2FCabri%2520Helicopter.htm&sid=21891997048

and the company web site:http://www.guimbal.com/


http://i33.servimg.com/u/f33/09/04/91/62/panel10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=101&u=10049162)



http://i33.servimg.com/u/f33/09/04/91/62/engine10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=103&u=10049162)

http://i33.servimg.com/u/f33/09/04/91/62/panel110.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=104&u=10049162)

http://i33.servimg.com/u/f33/09/04/91/62/cabri11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=105&u=10049162)



http://i33.servimg.com/u/f33/09/04/91/62/engine12.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=107&u=10049162)


http://i33.servimg.com/u/f33/09/04/91/62/cockpi10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=111&u=10049162)


http://i33.servimg.com/u/f33/09/04/91/62/inside10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=108&u=10049162)



http://i33.servimg.com/u/f33/09/04/91/62/img_3110.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=112&u=10049162)

http://i33.servimg.com/u/f33/09/04/91/62/n1060210.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=113&u=10049162)

[22clipper]

I tried copying from the PDFs with a view to pasting into the BabelFish but couldn't get past highlight/select. Anyone clever enough to use an OCR to get the text file?

[Capt Hollywood]

This is the first article, hope you've got an hour or two......

At the beginning of 2006, the flight tests had known a certain deceleration following the non-availability of the test pilot. It is true that the French administrative system is not simple. Thus, impossible to fly when we had met the CABRI for the first time. But fortunately, the administration counts also people with a clear vision and it is besides an arbitration on the most level which made it possible the CABRI project to find its test pilot. Since, the small helicopter does not cease flying to achieve the program of certification as fast as possible. It is thus with enthusiasm that we put the course on the ground of Aix the Miles when Bruno Guimbal telephoned to us to announce the availability of the CABRI for a trial flight. The helicopter being always at the stage of certification, the structure of our article will be by definition different from our usual screen. For those which did not have the occasion to read the article of April, it should be known that Aviation International put on line on our Internet site (www.aviationinternational. aero) for free consultation. Click on the heading "the Articles" in the general menu then "Tests Helicopters". In this article, we especially will speak about our impressions at the time of our first flight in CABRI. Few people having had this privilege before us, information seem important. For obvious reasons, other aspects which we usually treat at the time of a test could not be evoked. All the financial considerations, the procedures governing the maintenance or the availability of the parts are not yet really on the agenda. For the moment, Hélicoptères Guimbal is polishing its machine and to take it along towards certification. The figures published are thus a statement of our flight and will know still certain modifications. It is a project as ambitious as promising which rose in our editorial priorities. It goes without saying we will follow the CABRI of loan. Then you in regular articles wait which will inform you of the progression of the project. Hello N°1 the CABRI of our images is the first machine in conformity with the specifications of series. A second CABRI is in the course of assembly and will take part in the validation of the parameters for certification, primarily with regard to the electric circuit and optional air-conditioning. It is thus the same machine that you already saw in our preceding paper. In preliminary documentation, Guimbal announces an empty weight of 430 kg for a MTOW of 700 kg. The first CABRI weighs 448 kg. This weight includes/understands 23 kg for the material of acquisition of the data, there are sensors really everywhere. Moreover, screen LCD present side pilot is precisely used for the visualization of this information. The standard appliances will of course be deprived of these instruments. At the time our trial flight, the tank posts 64 liters and the crew adds up 180 kg, which gives us a mass on the takeoff of 675 kg. Holding account of an average time consumption of 35 liters, our two hours endurance close would have made it possible to carry 25 more kg of luggage. Exchanging the test pilot of Guimbal against my wife, I would have gained 30 kg, but since the women travel with beautycase and other ustensils, the situation for my luggage would hardly have changed... But let us cease joking and retain that the CABRI truly makes it possible to leave with two people and luggage with reasonable autonomy carburizing; it is a very good point. Extremely of this theoretical information, it is time to go on the tarmac and to begin the pre-flight. Annoyed with Internet? For those which have bad memory and are annoyed with Internet and which thus could not consult our last article, here nevertheless a small recall: Bruno Guimbal is old of Eurocopter which in 1984 had the vision to want to build a light piston helicopter for two people profiting from current technology. CABRI, fruit of this reflexion, is an helicopter whose external forms cannot deny a certain influence of last Eurocopter de Bruno. With force to see Squirrels and Hummingbirds, normal that that leaves traces. The three-bladed rotor in composites is pulled by a BTP house which distributes a part of the 145 cv towards an anti-torque device Fenestron style. Lycoming O-360 receives a system "antigrivrage carburizing Guimbal". Hear by-there Bruno Guimbal invented an automatic defrosting equipment to electric drive which is ordered by the MFD, which posts the operation of the device besides. The nominal nominal output of 180 cv is détarée to 145 cv. The conceptual principle of a helicopter wants that one establishes the size of the BTP compared to the engine output available to ceiling HES. On the sea level, the density of the helping air, the requirement in power is less. These 145 cv correspond to 2' 650 rpm and a pressure of admission of 24,7 inches in conditions ISA on the sea level. Thus, the pilot reads 100% on his MFD. The electronics of the CABRI allows a variable use of the turns rotor. You will thus read 520-540 NR according to the need for the margin of power. The posting of the power on the MFD is calculated by holding account of the altitude-density of the moment. The CABRI will be the first light helicopter certified according to standards' EASA SC 27. That implies in particular very strict anti-crash landing measurements. All modern technology is used on board CABRI. Olivier Gensse While I discuss with Bruno Guimbal, the test pilot arrived. Olivier Gensse is a strapping fellow with a pleasant smile. Graduate of Epner with Istres and having taken part in the development of the EC-225, Olivier knows what it speaks. Its course as a test pilot in the center of the flight tests allows a scientific approach of the phenomena of the flights. After a small briefing, we move towards the machine. The pre-flight is not complicated, all is easily accessible and two side caps open allowing the inspection of mechanics. A footboard on the right makes it possible to check the head rotor. All is made to facilitate the detection of a possible problem without finding the hands in dirty oil, the pilots of helicopters of old generation know what I want to say. It is time to settle on board. Each detail... To open the CABRI, anything simpler! Forget the ancient bunch of keys of your Agusta or Dolphin and support simply on a remote control! What became normal on board each Renault CLIO finally made its entry in the general aviation! It is true that I always had much evil to include/understand why it was necessary to spend several million euros to have an helicopter provided with the locks with Renault Gordini! It is not that a detail will say some. Admittedly, but it is precisely the good proportioning of the spices which will make that a dish made up of the best ingredients will leave an unforgettable impression in your palate. This remote control allowing the unlocking of the doors of the CABRI and at the same time the desactivation of the antidémarrage is a good example to illustrate the state of mind of Bruno Guimbal. Contrary to the genious engineers from Sikorsky or Dassault, Bruno is not satisfied to invent an innovating head rotor. The man thinks of any detail allowing the future purchaser to obtain a product close to the perfection. The orders side copilot are dismounted without tools to line up in a small interior trunk, space luggage add up 192 liters; very at thought and reflected summer. That seems so perfect that it is already almost equivocal. On board Installed on board, I find nevertheless with râler. Ouf, finally! Wouldn't the CABRI thus be perfect? You reassure, my criticisms are thin and besides Bruno Guimbal indicates that this kind of comments is more than welcome to polish the product before the final definition of any part. It is true that installed on board, I miss a little place. The base of the seats misses length for the large ones, the support of the legs is not optimal. From their anti-crash landing design with energy absorption, the seats are fixed, but a lumbar adjustment could have been integrated into the great pleasure of customers mainly "hard-working of office" with more or less accentuated back painses. For the moment, the position of the swing bars is still fixed, the later possibility to regulate them will improve certainly the situation for the large gauges like besides for the small ones. No the problem on the other hand for the shoulders or the head, space is generous. The safety belts standard harness four points with roller marrying safety and comfort are excellent. The catches helmets, the circuit breakers, the horameter and the containing hydrocarbon tap are placed on the electric control panel between the two pilots. The closing of the doors highlights a simple and effective system. The joints do well their work, the sealing of the doors is not a problem. The position of the orders of flight is pleasant, the cyclic fall well into the hand. The pitch control for the pilot is on the central console. For the large ones, the position is thus a little high, but that gene not too. To facilitate the access on board passenger, the pitch control on the left is located 3 cm lower. The linkage throttle style traditional handle of motor bike has a first position which makes it possible to regulate the power between 0 and 100 %. a second position maintain the order to 0 % to avoid a handing-over in accidental power at the time of autorotations. Ordered by springs, this system makes it possible to return quickly of normal use while ensuring a good safety in drive, it is very well seen. At its end, the order is hollow to place the switch for the governor as well as the button of starting. Richness control as brake rotor are with the ceiling. Let us recall that an helicopter with pistons controls normally always full rich person, it does not matter altitude. The current flight manuals do not lay down to impoverish even if that could decrease consumption in cruising and increase the longevity of the engine. On the CABRI, Bruno Guimbal wishes that the informed pilot be able to use the mixture in cruising speed in altitude, but attention, an engine of helicopter stops very quickly and it is not a question of mixturer on the thin side. Despite everything the modernism on board CABRI, the richness control is of course used to choke the engine at the end of each mission. Also with the ceiling switches for lightings 1&2. It should be remembered that with its lighting electronic TDCI, the engine of the CABRI has only one magneto which is useful in backup in the improbable case of a failure of Plasma. This ignition system was the subject of a STC by Hélicoptères Guimbal. The central console is sufficiently large to lodge all the instruments while keeping a beautiful visibility for the crew. Surprising in the medium of the table, the presence of a MFD of beautiful invoice of a diagonal of 26 cm. The screen comprises especially an account turns intelligent engine-rotor with detection of desynchronization and a calculator of margin of power which posts the gross margin of power available, while indicating if this margin is due to the couple or gases. In option, a gauge of precision with posting of remaining autonomy in minutes is also present. The additional functions are: pressure and temperature of oil, gasoline pressure, temperature cylinder head, temperature carburettor with indication of the interlocking of the automatic carburizing heating, ammeter, EGT, detection filings BTP and PTA, outside temperature, stop watch, show and carbon monoxide detector. I note a perfectible legibility however. Without sunglasses, the screen appears not very luminous to me and once my Ray-Round of applause with polarizing glasses fitted, the reading of the MFD becomes really difficult. But attention: that is only one personal perception and I must add that I know my eyes since knowing sufficiently a long time that they need much luminosity. However, a thing is certain: in the current state of the things, the MFD is less readable than the traditional clocks, even if Guimbal announces a profit of luminosity of 30% on the future flagstones of series. To each potential buyer thus to test, it is a really subjective feeling. On the models of series, the luminosity will be also modifiable, essential besides for the night flight. Startup the procedure of startup of the CABRI is simplest that I ever met on a piston helicopter. All is simple and logical. Lycoming is cold, therefore four injections with the throttle lever. Then the sequence of the switches is logical, one starts on the left to finish on the right. Thus: battery, pump, strobe, alternator, clutch, headlights, then side-lights. The gases remain with the neutral when Olivier says to me to start. A small blow on the button, Lyco awakes, it is as simple as on board Mercedes, thank you the electronic ignition made by Guimbal. Olivier makes me assemble the power to 15% to couple. On the models delivered to the customers, starting will be done with the idle, which is very stable, thank you once more modern lighting. The temperatures are in the green, we are ready to relocate. In this end of afternoon of June, a small back wind of 15 kts cherishes the CABRI. Olivier, very trustful, crosses the hands and lets me take off. Performances surprising As of my first stationary following back takeoff wind, the stability of the CABRI is surprising. But I also immediately note a certain hardness in the orders. We are far from the flexible controls of a hydraulic assistance as to edge of a one or turbine-powered helicopter that of a Robinson R44. For stage this established fact, the CABRI has a trim in the shape of Chinese hat on the cyclic one. That resembles with the device met on certain rigid rotor machines like the EC-135. According to flying conditions', it is thus necessary to find the position of the trim which is appropriate. With the beginning, that can appear diverting, but gradually, the use of the Chinese hat becomes instinctive. Moreover, the piloting of the CABRI is not without evoking a certain resemblance to that of this twin-engine of Eurocopter. Each action on the handle results in an immediate movement of the cell, it is not as on Bell where one perceives initially the rotor tilt before the movement of the cell. After a little work on the ground, I proceed to the first takeoff. Useless to post more power, it is enough to incline the rotor forwards then the rotor of the CABRI devours the air with a rather frank acceleration, it is surprising for a small power of 145 cv. 50 kts is the good value to be retained for the rise and that is also worth for the approach as for autorotation. On the level, acceleration towards 90 kts is very fast, then it is necessary to look after the line of flight to reach the cruising speed maximum that Guimbal announces with 100 kts. The day of our test, we butted against 98 kts, but let us not forget that we are on board first CABRI and that it still will undergo adjustments and improvements. The noise level is rather low. I measure 94 dBa on the ground then 95 dBa during the rise. As soon as the helicopter takes speed, the relative wind starts to mask the noise of the rotor, the posting of our sonometer drops to 90 dBa in economical cruise (90% of power give 90 kts) then is stabilized to 88 dBa in fast cruising. We have flown now for 20 minutes and I start with better smelling the machine. Us here ready for a first approach. With my eyes "eaters of luminosity" masked by glasses, I have evil to see the indication of the power on the MFD. I thus regulate with the conk and that seems to be appropriate to Olivier as in the CABRI because I stop the machine at the point wanted in hover. I am really impressed by the disconcerting facility with which this light helicopter is controlled, even if I continue to force too much on the cyclic one not having bored all the secrecies of the compensator yet. And here, it set out again for a turn. In back wind, arrived at cruising speed, the CABRI is stable but vibrates. It is not worse than on some other machines, but we are far from a flying carpet. Of return on the ground, Bruno Guimbal will explain that it did not develop the procedure of balancing bus yet with the present stage, the blades are still dismounted permanently. It is time to proceed to autorotations. Once more, the CABRI surprises by its extreme handiness and a stability which refers to machines much heavier. Definitely, the helicopter of Guimbal makes much more than to only resemble a Squirrel visually! In autorotation, the rate of descent is frank, it is not a sailplane like Bell 47. But I note a beautiful inertia rotor which forgives with thoughtless not immediately not to lower the collective once the engine failure noted. The regulation of the turns rotor during the descent is easy. Moreover, the beach between 400 and 630 turns NR is comfortable and allows autorots in full safety for mechanics, even if the pilot, stressed by the situation, neglects to monitor his turns. A good 50 kts with the airspeed indicator corresponds at a vertical speed of 1' 400 ft/min. In approach of the ground, the flare resembles a good rounded as on a light plane, which breaks the variometer well. Thereafter, it is enough to relieve with the step and to put the machine flat. It is then on its solid anti-wear aluminium shoes with tungsten carbide shoes that we slip on the tar during a few meters to stop us carefully, it is rather magic. It is a procedure simple and easy to repeat, even if that does not give an absolute precision to touch exactly the point envisaged. With a little less speed, autorotation gains in precision but the operation is reserved to the experienced pilot. The tests showed a smoothness of 3.6, which is remarkable. We set out again for some evolutions close to the ground. Well trimé, the CABRI is able to hold the stationary one during good two seconds while we release ALL the orders, it is rather remarkable. It should be said that the last helicopter which enabled me to remain in hover was the EC-155, a monster of technology equipped with a numerical autopilot four axes of last generation. Set out again in flight with our CABRI and sensitized on the fact that the machine seems balanced very well, I realize that it is completely possible to fly in....... continued next post

[Capt Hollywood]

........cruising without swing bar because this one keeps its position well once the ball centered in the medium. It is thus a very balanced helicopter which Bruno Guimbal is on the point of certifying. Small Tiger or Olivier? During all our evolutions, I am bluffé by the extreme handiness and the reactivity of the CABRI. Considering his careened anti-torque rotor, I expected to have to anticipate with the foot as it is of habit with any helicopter having a Small window. But it of it is nothing. Each action on the swing bar results immediately in a movement into lace. To anticipate? You speak! Of course, that is also worth for the cyclic one. It is true, the handle a little hard, that is really made think of a rigid rotor. But just like on rigid rotor helicopter, each movement of cyclic makes react immediately. One then obtains a very reactive helicopter without giving to the pilot the feeling of an unstable machine. I think that improved helicopters of combat as the Tiger must convey similar feelings, all things considered. After having abused the machine, I yield the orders to Olivier to discover the possibilities of the CABRI. And there, I am truly époustouflé. Between Olivier Gensse who is a test pilot out par and the small CABRI with the unsuspected performances, the cocktail is clashing. At all events, the small demonstration highlights several points: the CABRI has a so broad flight envelope that the normal pilot will fly in all circumstances with a beautiful safety margin. For the pilot beginning, the CABRI will be much easier to tame than R22 and the experienced pilot will be able to find at each hour of new possibilities and reasons to open out. Only 145 cv? It is necessary to acknowledge that by seeing this machine planned for a maximum weight of 700 kg, I have instinctively dreaded to miss power. It is true, 145 cv, that does not make much. But after my meeting in flight, near to the maximum mass, I am obliged to regard my first judgement as hasty. It is true that if industry were finally able to propose a reliable and light engine developing 200 cv, the rotor of race of the CABRI could certainly be still well better expressed. But while waiting, the new tricolour helicopter is placed with the same sign as all the other manufacturers. The day of the test, the conditions weather were ISA +9°C, which did not seem to disturb the CABRI. During all my flight, I seldom had the feeling to miss power. It is true that at the time of a a little fast approach with strong slope, one does not have the same power as with a turbine to force the CABRI to stop. But it is enough to pull up a little more because the capacity of the rotor slightly charged, with its modern profile with strong capacity of bearing pressure, still makes it possible to fly with only 380 turns rotor. In comparison with all the other helicopters with pistons, it should be said that the machine of Bruno Guimbal is very astonishing. Very appreciable also this reactivity with the orders which makes it possible to carry out even the operations most dared with a perfect ease. For the small history, let us note that the CABRI holds several records of world (approved FAI): Olivier Gensse carried out inter alia the machine to 6' 658 m of altitude, that corresponds to the FL 220! Not only for the schools It is necessary to acknowledge that the traditional two-seater helicopters have especially a vocation as a teaching aid. Imposing a fine and pure piloting, I always liked small R22 to learn "If you can control R22, you will be able all to control..." told me the instructor of my beginnings. But to travel, the absence of trunk and a reduced payload penalize small Robi. Schweizer 300 makes it possible on the other hand to take along some personal effects and its broad front bench is convivial even enough for three people. But by this concept, resistance in the air is considerable and a cruising speed rather timid results from it. Bruno Guimbal understood well that to design a revolutionary helicopter, it was necessary well to exceed the stage of the machine which nothing but does "well fly". The small trunk inside makes it possible to place the orders of flight, two helmets and various small equipment and even your picnic. For those which hope to use it for special missions, the place could also be useful for the installation of material various like equipment of transmission for video uses for example. The external baggage hold makes dribble of desire any owner of a MANDELEVIUM 500: to carry two bags of cabin does not pose a problem for the CABRI. At the time when we write these lines, of many parameters are not validated yet. Thus, the figures of performances and the abacuses which we publish are the information provided on a purely strictly indicative basis. Even if there are very good lucks that the CABRI reaches these values, Bruno Guimbal indicates that the final values will be available in the months which follow. The acquisition of the data at the time of a certification is a long process comprising of many parameters. But we will follow this project of near and will deliver the evolution at the time of future tests to you. In the case of the CABRI, the compromise between performances, comfort and safety seems particularly well defined. The helicopter is announced with a cruising speed of 100 kts for Vne of 125 kts, knowing that Olivier Gensse validated the resistance of the machine at the time of tests to speeds of 140 kts, which is more than the margin of the 11% lawful. Moreover, a wind noise, left similar "flap-flap" to the noise of large Bell, appears gradually as of 130 kts. It is an excellent warning signal for the thoughtless pilot who would have omitted to notice that it was found with a rate of fall bordering the 4' 000 ft/min. This Vne high shows the great potential of this rotor. The ceiling except ground effect is not validated yet bus of the adjustments to contain the temperature of the engine are in hand. The ceiling OF was validated with 8 000 ft: that should be enough to go to the ski to two. The immense anti-crash tank of 170 L usable authorizes an endurance of approximately five hours. By this rather single combination of qualities, the CABRI will be of course a very good machine for the schools and clubs, but could also be useful afterwards for true voyages for the members of the structure having learned how to fly on the type. For the private one which is already pilot of helicopter but which did not cross the step of the purchase yet, the CABRI will be a very convincing argument. Made in France It is true that the French aircraft do not have the reputation to be cheap. In this moment, Bruno Guimbal accepts purchase orders relating to an amount of 240' 000? HT. This tariff includes/understands rather complete equipment. We note especially this locking centralized by remote control, the double dismountable orders without tools, a CO detector and an automatic carburizing reheating. This last point appears to us the of greattest importance on board a piston helicopter. In option, the customer will be able to make install an air-conditioning, a buoyancy of help, a dashboard VSV or a containing hydrocarbon flowmeter with posting of autonomy. For maintenance, Hélicoptères Guimbal aims a first visit at 100 hours, then one 500 H and a 4' 000 H, left major inspection. Lycoming requires a draining with change of the filters all the 50 H. The potentials aimed for the mechanical sets are of 4' 000 h. Bruno Guimbal indicates to want to manufacture a machine whose maintenance will not be compromised by calendar thrusts. It is highly desirable that this wish becomes reality. For this reason, it should be indicated that the company Hélicoptères Guimbal gives the impression to have succeeded in creating a fabulous machine but does not seem for the moment not too much to worry about the other aspects to propose a complete solution. Besides it is advisable to note that contrary to our practices, we are not able to publish curves of performances nor even a three-view drawing: although promised with repetition by Guimbal, we never received them. This Marseilles side disturbs and does not make serious. The man has only two arms and only one head, we agree on it, but the promises are made to be held and it remains to be hoped that the future customers who currently sign the purchase orders will not have nasty surprises on this side. The CABRI is placed as a direct competitor compared to Robinson 22 and the range of Schweizer 300. These two machines are tariffed in dollars, which is currently a very good news for any owner of euros. It as should be known as companies as Socata post the price of their machines in American dollar, contrary to Eurocopter which currency in euros. It is obvious that long-term, the success of the CABRI will be also closely related to its penetration of the American market. It is only while entering a true logic of industrial production that Hélicoptères Guimbal will be able to be established as a principal actor in the market of the revolving aerofoils. It is by a logic of mass that it will be possible to ensure a SAV the height of best, I think of companies like Bell or Cessna. Particular context That made now more than 30 years that the last two-seater piston helicopter was designed. With the CABRI, the company around Bruno Guimbal proposes a truly innovative machine. Very good performances, real versatility, great volumes for occupants and luggage, high level of safety, the result seems without call: us here opposite the first piston helicopter for two people of the third millenium. After my trial flight, the conclusion is obvious: if I were to buy a two-seater helicopter, my choice would go towards a CABRI. This decision and largely moved by qualities in flight of the machine and its level of safety. The small reserves issued in our article are a little normal insofar as it acts of the first helicopter of a new company.
Certification is always planned for the end of this year 2006 and the first customers will have their CABRI in 2007 according to current information's. A good idea is thus to go to see Bruno Guimbal at the time of your next Aix-en-Provence passage. But go ahead especially to sign orders because the man likes to chatter and any hour that you will fly to his kindness will delay for as much certification! And that, not, it would be really too regrettable according to what I could note at the time of my trial flight... Philippe Bavaria

[widgeon]

Hope the electrical system is not Eurocopter , glass fuses and stuff.

[Flyin'ematlast]

The Cabri really starts to sound like the machine to lure people (Me!) away from the R22. Now if only I could spare the cash to buy one :{

Ian.

[22clipper]

thanks for the translation mon Capitan, how's the flying paint job behaving herself?

[Capt Hollywood]

Going great, about to put an autopilot in it!

[kevin_mayes]

Widgeon
Doesn't an R44 have a glass fuse in the clutch actuator motor circuit, located in the rear top access hatch?
Kevin.

[bellsux]

On the vega display the frogs have spelt litres wrong...

[singesavant]

I guess they translated litres in English: liters

[Tango and Cash]

Man, where's my winning lottery ticket when I really want it?

[singesavant]

FAA certification not before 1 year...

[Freewheel]

Moving right back to topic;

It's good to see the project continuing to make progress. It was very positive to see the reference in the article to high rotor inertia, so clearly the lessons have been learned well.

The crashworthy seating looks to be very well done, giving a great sense of confidence.

Personally I'd like to see a diesel in the works, but given the level of innovation and thought that appears to have gone into it so far, I don't imagine the concept will have escaped the designer. I suppose, a suitable engine needs to be found first. I gather the thielert may have packaging problems in this layout and the SMA may be too heavy.

As described, it might be a bit expensive - I wonder whether it will be built by Guimbal itself or assembly subcontracted? Now let's see, who's got a production/assembly facility in Europe, the US and Asia?

I do hope Guimbal will ensure his product support is an improvement on his former employer........

Here's a tip, gather bits for 1 complete airframe, put on shelf, assemble next set of bits for the next airframe, complete and deliver to customer. Repeat, at least to get started with. Should only need a few complete sets of spares to get the kinks ironed out.

[singesavant]

Here is an answer of couple of your questions, directly from Guimbal's mind, I hope he won't get pissed off with me trying to restitude and translate his email on a french forum (he is a little bit rude in this email, it's nothing to see with you, just that this kind of designers might be the target for millions of critiques, I guess at least, and he answer to an other buddy...):


original from Mr Guimbal:

"Comment répondre à tant de haine ??
Je vais commencer par la seule attaque qui me touche : le moteur Lycoming. Celui qui aura passé la moitié du temps que j'ai passé à étudier sérieusement les autres moteurs possibles pour un hélicoptère biplace, pourrait me jeter la première pierre. Il ne le ferait probablement pas d'ailleurs, par compassion.
Je tiens à la disposition de qui veut des milliers de pages, plans, courbes, sur les Porsche PFM, Mazda birotor, Diesels turbo divers, Rotax, Wilksh, Deltahawk, Subaru, Thielert, SMA (j'ai d'ailleurs travaillé pour le moteur SMA).
Cela me désolerait d'ailleurs d'y avoir passé tout ce temps, si je ne savais pas que tant de gens sérieux en ont passé beaucoup plus (Cirrus, Robinson, Mooney, Socata, etc...excusez du peu) avec le meme résultat pitoyable. Pitoyable pour les discussions de ceux qui restent au bar, d'ailleurs, car ceux qui volent en Cirrus ou en R44 ne perdent pas leur temps à "maudire les ténèbres"... (du proverbe chinois "mieux vaut allumer une bougie que maudire les ténèbres")
A propos de bougies... le Cabri est certifié avec un allumage électronique cartographique du dernier cri, et d'autres modernités, sur son vieux Lycoming."


Translated as better as I can (actually very quick), in english:

how facing so much hatred??
I'll answer to the only attack that touch me: the lycoming engine. the one who had spent half of the time that I did studying seriously others possible engines for a two seat helo, could cast me the first stone and eventually he won't probably do it by compassion.
I get at disposition to who want, thousand of sheets, plans, curves, for the porshes PFM, Mazda bi-rotor, diverts diesels turbo, Rotax, wilksh, Deltahawk, Subaru, Thierlet, SMA (by the way I worked for SMA engine).
I would feel sorry by the way to have spent so much time, if I didn't known that so many serious peoples had spent much more (Cirrus, Robinson, Mooney, Socata, etc... excuse me please) with the same pitifull result. Pitifull for the discussions of one whom spend time into the bars instead of flying the Cirrus or R44 and complaining after that...

talking about spark plugs... cabri is certified with an electronic ingnition system of the last generation on the old lycoming.


Original:

"Je finirai par le sujet qui me fait sourire, mais j'ai peur qu'il n'intéresse personne : "le fric du contribuable".
J'ai quitté définitivement un emploi salarié stable et bien rémunéré, et arreté de cotiser à la retraite, dans une CPE - Certitude de Précarité Eternelle. Pour réunir les 3 Meuros de fonds propres que nous dépensons en ce moment, j'ai engagé dans la bonne humeur et l'aventure ce que je possèdais, la confiance et l'argent de mes 5 frères et soeurs, de 8 amis ingénieurs passionnés, et j'ai convaincu trois sociétés industrielles privées, dont Eurocopter.
Je suis incapable d'aller faire cela à l'étranger, mais cent fois, il m'a été affirmé que c'était la seule solution possible.
Heureusement, nous avons obtenu des aides à l'emploi et au développement, la plupart remboursables sur les ventes, et plusieurs garanties sur mes biens (qui n'y suffiraient pas au quart !). Il y a (qui a dit "il reste" ?) en France des fonctionnaires motivés pour l'aviation et l'industrie, sinon on serait tous bons pour importer du matériel chinois. Ou belge."


Translated:

I'll finish with the subject that make me laughing, but I'm afraid that nobody'll be interess in: "the taxpayer's money".
I definitively quit a salaried and stable position well pay and ceased to pay for the the retreat , social security. To put together the 3 Millions Euro that we're spending now, I engaged in happiness into this adventure all i had, confidence and money of my familly, plus 8 passionates ingeeners, and convince 3 industrials societies include eurocopter.
I'm not capable to do it in a foreign country, but 100 times, I heart that it was the only possibility.
Hopefully, we had aid to develop, reimbursable on the sells and manies garanties on my owns. there are still some state employers in France, motivated for aviation and industry, if not we would just have to import chinese material, or belgium.





by the way, I think or I heard that guimbal helicopter is very open mind to fit the cabri with an other engine regardless of performances/weight ratio and of course realiability, include diesel engines, waiting after the industry to design it i guess...

sorry Mister guimbal if this email bother you, just let me know I'll erase it immediately!

[22clipper]

Wouldn't mind a read of that 2nd pdf article your Autopilotship Sir, how'd you manage to copy the French from the pdf?

[Capt Hollywood]

That second article is locked so unfortunately I can't copy the text into Babelfish.

CH :cool:

[Freewheel]

Singesavant

I realise your post is a translation of a post on another forum, it's very easy to go getting all twisted about things that are written - our fellow forum members give more than enough examples.

I thought I was being quite positive - I rather like the Cabri and like it more as it has developed.


As I mentioned;

"I don't imagine the concept will have escaped the designer"

in other words "I'm sure Guimbal has looked at every option".

Not an attack by any means. I didn't mention the ignition system because I'm not familiar with what has been produced, but it sounds great in Captain Hollywood's translated posts.


I wasn't aware that Guimbal wasn't receiving any government funding. I'm surprised, given the French Government's traditional approach to global industries, but being an outsider causes problems all over the world. We only need to look as far as Robinson to see that new concepts are not always accepted.


I stand by my observation of Eurocopter's product support being terrible. Guimbal has other priorities at the moment, but developing a support network along Bell's model, or even Robinson's, would be an excellent long term goal.


I'm scheduled to visit France later this year, I'll definitely be swinging by for a look-see.

[singesavant]

My intentions were not to be polemical and to judge couple of English speakers felllows, I just try to inform the cyclic's shaker community with some fresh news about the cabri wich seems for me such a nice concept and designed aircraft. I have nothing to see with the company guimbal even not for a single dime, it's just as a french native speaker I probably right now have more acces to information about the cabri and thus not because it's confidential, but just because most of them are in french.
So apoloziges if you had the feeling to be agressed, I have just translate as best as I could ( but very quickly, I'm working on my CFI and don't have that much time to spend beetween email for companies and lessons plans) an email which I thaugh was more or less corresponding to couple questions you asked yourself and to the community by the way.
I assume and accept that my english is not accurated enough to express my ideas and as well I wanted to deliver you guys the crudes words that Mr guimbal used into their origninal form to make them closer to his mind...

I agree with you points, no doubts and I still have some couple emails quite interresting from the Cabri's team talking about the clutch, why a fenestron and stuff!

I guess we are all looking in the same direction, there are very few new born helo and even less into the training/general aviation market, and we are probably all curoius to learn more about them so here is that thread;

I love the forums for the good infos you would hardly find out if they wouldn't exist, so thoses are my two cents.

Enjoy you flights guys!

[Freewheel]

No worries.

I'm sure we will all be delighted to read of how Guimbal's dream became reality.

Good luck with your studies!

[singesavant]

Thanks I need it!
I hope the same to find a job, doesn't look that easy...

[HELOFAN]

Why not a turbine engine?

Why are we constantly using piston when turbine is lighter, more reliable, less complex?

It may be more expensive initially but in the long run?

I met a guy not too long ago that has a TH-55 that is puttting a gas turbine engine in that was designed for a military platform that got canned.
The engines ( he bought 4 ) were brand new still in the ole bubble wrap, were being used for gen sets.

Blades were composite design.

Lots of weight removed, quieter, more power & reliability in place.
Carry bigger pilot folk & more fuel for longer flights.

Going to be registered under experimental.

So why not I ask a light/training helicopter?

HF

[mesh1matrix2000]

Singesavant

I hope to be able to purchase a Cabri g2 for private use. Any information you have on the viability, expected operating costs etc would be greatly appreciated. I have searched the web high up and low down for detailed independant reviews/information without much success.

[Bravo73]

Why not a turbine engine?

Why are we constantly using piston when turbine is lighter, more reliable, less complex?

It may be more expensive initially but in the long run?


Why not? Simple. Cost.


Not only is the initial cost (ie acquisition) much higher but the continual costs (ie maintenance & parts) are also much higher. Which is why (in the UK), R44s generally go out at £3-400ph and B206s are £5-600ph.

[HELOFAN]

I wonder, with all the tinkering and fouled plugs, magnetos, oil consumption, vibrations etc disliking cold start, that piston engines endure, are they really that more expensive to maintain?

If the true costs of a piston aircraft that has a reasonable share of "normal" problems were laid out & compared to turbine that runs "reasonably" well on an average, would the costs still be that much lower of a piston engine than a turbine?

based over a series of hours checked at certain increments I wonder how close they would come if at all.

Surely with all the advancements we have made with technology turbines are getting better too.

Here we are starting to use diesels, which is essentially a beefed up petrol engine running on oil, & can run the same oil that a turbine uses.
Have we not made small turbines more efficient and cheaper to run?

I find it hard to believe that turbines are being left behind in technology advancements & operational costs.

Whats the word, bird?

HF

[Bravo73]

HELOFAN,

I recently had a bearing in one of the turbine sections of an Alison 250 fail inflight. (Thankfully it wasn't critical because I was carrying a spare engine at the time.;))

The replacement part cost £45k. :eek: You could probably buy a couple of new Lycomings for that.


As far as I know, replacement parts on newer generation turbine engines (ie Arriels or RR300s etc) aren't any cheaper.

[HELOFAN]

Bugger.

Wow.

And yet thats insane they are so small, your kids can carry them around in their bike baskets.
:O
Thanks Bravo73

[singesavant]

mesh1matrix2000

"I hope to be able to purchase a Cabri g2 for private use. Any information you have on the viability, expected operating costs etc would be greatly appreciated. I have searched the web high up and low down for detailed independant reviews/information without much success."

The major factor will be to place an oder, They plan to produce ten aircrafts this year and look like it 'll be hard to place order due to the demand... the first delivery is suppose to be marsh 2008; other factor could be the price around 240.000€.

But still seem to be classic for aviation so far; For the operating cost they plan and designed on similar cost than a R22 but not at the begining for the very first aircrafts due to the limited life components restrictions for safety reasons.
Can not find out an original email stating that, but I'm sure I read it...

blades are suppose to be unlimited life made of carbon.


From the first article translated by freewheel:

"For maintenance, Hélicoptères Guimbal aims a first visit at 100 hours, then one 500 H and a 4' 000 H, left major inspection. Lycoming requires a draining with change of the filters all the 50 H. The potentials aimed for the mechanical sets are of 4' 000 h. Bruno Guimbal indicates to want to manufacture a machine whose maintenance will not be compromised by calendar thrusts."

[Graviman]

Helofan, the RR300 is designed to answer the market call for an affordable gas turbine. By taking a 250 and derating it the component specs can be reduced. Much of the development in a turbine is to get the first turbine stage to handle high combustion chamber temps. Less performance means lower temperatures. It will probably end up sitting between Lycoming and A250 for both performance and cost.

Later note:

As an automotive engines man in a former life, i find the whole certification process for aero piston engines slightly laughable. Admitedly i am not intimitely familiar with the process, but having a design freeze is just wrong. Each year automotive engines experiment with improved turbocharging techniques, coatings and materials. Even in derated form, required for aircraft reliability, the performance is becoming excellent. By not allowing this development to benefit aircraft the piston engines are being left behind - way way behind... :hmm:

[mesh1matrix2000]

Singesavant

Thanks. Not in a position to order yet. I read somewhere that when the company get up and running they hope to produce 200 units per year if that level of demand ever exists.

[Flyin'ematlast]

For anyone who wants to get the gist of the second PDF article I have managed to get it through Babelfish and tidy it up a bit.

I truly hope that I do not anger Bruno Guimbal or tread on any toes by doing this := but I found that it answers many folks questions and I hope it helps. Now I'm just hoping my lottery number comes up or my inheritance arrives early and my order would be in!:cool:

Enjoy.


The concept of Bruno Guimbal is simple: it is to propose a light helicopter for two people, powered by a piston engine. Needless to say that the project of the CABRI aims at the same market as R22 of Robinson.

Bruno Guimbal was Born in 1959 of a family of engineers. Bruno Guimbal révait since its more tightening enfrance to become... engineer! Impassioned by mechanics, he was a turner-milling machine operator in shorts at 8 years age. At 15 years, He passed its CAPE of draftsman thanks to courses of the evening. It should be said that the young Bruno had continuation in the ideas. A baptism of the air at 18 years gave him in more passion of the air. By looking at the various planes on the market, its choice was quickly made: Bruno was going to build Vari Eze. It was also the first Vari Eze in France. The financing was not easy matter to achieve, but while working hard, the purchase of the engine became possible. Not having finances to buy the undercariage. Bruno turned himself the wheels and the brakes. It is this plane which changed his life definitively. 1 ' 200 hdv with the orders of its plane throughout the world, a splendid experiment and the beginning of a friendship with Burt Rutan, genius of aerodynamics. Then arrived time to grow. Various aeronautical schools, the discovery of the world of the aerofoils

Revolving then, at the end of his studies with I' Ensam, a training course at Aerospace. We are in 1981 and it is the insane time of the modern rotors. Returning train dolphin, Squirrel; the world of the helicopter is in effervescence. As an assistant chief of the project EC-120, Bruno GuimbaI becomes a specialist in the light helicopter. In 2000, Bruno is a chief of the service of flight controls when he decides to leave Eurocopter.

The company has ete creee with a blow of inch of Eurocopter bus the former employer had allowed has Bruno Guimbal the benefit of access to certain information. This close collaboration with Eurocopter consortium is a pledge of credibility for the young company. Today, Guimbal Helicopters and Eurocopter are partners in the undertaking. Vertivision, a firm which has like vocation to manufacture a helico drone. But it is not in so far as Bruno plays the military chart to finance the civil project. The financing of Helicopters Guimbal east ensures parses proper sums of money, the support of its family as some friends engineers who do not have hesitate has to invest their economies in the project. The fact of having gains prices well equip as the contest of the creator of company of high technology him A gives a certain financial autonomy. Also let us note like shareholder a subsidiary company of the Agricultural credit, which takes part in a strategy of capital risks. All that made it possible to raise four million to develop and debut the construction of a light helicopter for two people, the CABRI. Currently, Helicopteres Guimbal is located on the aerodrome of Aix-the-Miles in the Mouth-of-Rhone, a quiet ground in Provence that military and civil divide in good co-operation. The young company employs 11 people and works in collaboration with many external partners.

The analysis of the history of the helicopters can resume in a few words. All started in 1947 with the setting on the market of Bell 47. Twenty years later, Hughes 300 gained an immense slice of US Army; it was the second of the band. The latest to date is Robinson R22. Since the first delivery in 1979, more than 25 years are ecoules. But one always speaks about a modern and economic machine. It is thus rather obvious that a helicopter built with current knowledge and by using technologies of the third millenium will be a product superior. But this superior theory is far from guaranteeing successes of the project. The preserving medium of aviation etant by definition, of many futuristic projects are balances by a cooking failure. Remember the Starship of Beechcraft, moreover draws by Burt Rutan and cense releguer has scrap family of King Air don' T the origin goes up at the Fifties. But in the same category there are also "happy end", as proves Piaggio with its Avanti, same if the premieres years of the child were particularly painful. In lemonde of the revolving aerofoils, This toire is much less rich. Same if giants like Bell or Eurocopter sometimes succeeded has to impose little successful machines, it is necessary recognize that the law of walk will not allow any error has Bruno Guimbal and his accomplices. But do you recall, Frank Robinson succeeded well, then why not Bruno Guimbal? The CABRI wants to be innovative on many points. One of the priorities relates to technology. For this reason, two decades at Eurocopter have leaves deep marks in the spirit of Bruno Guimbal. Why change a horse which gains? one would be tries to ask by making a first turn of the CABRI, principal Rotor, anti-torque rotor, massive use of composites; a certain similarity with the concept of the EC-120 is not has to deny. But the more we turn around the CABRI, the more we will discover the machine and the more us sums impress. For this quest of the technological reasoning, Bruno seems close to the vision of the perfect genie. If the aircraft flies as well in the airs as on the drawing, the CABRI promises! But we have another vision immediately. Bruno Guimbal seems to think of all, not forgetting any preoccupation of the purchasers and users constituting the target of a light helicopter for two people. it is enough to look at the poignees doors or to note with which facilitates the flight controls demount themselves: it is obvious that gargon A really thinks has all! Moreover, at the time of our report, Bruno has watch to us certain functionalities of the machine which are quite simply revolutionary.

Some of these details do not only have for purpose that of improving comfort, but it is well what the customers seek! Any Renault CLIO now has ABS and electric windows, but on the level comfort, the planes and helicopters nowadays are reminders on the level of Renault Gordini. When Guimbal devoilera the final grinding of the CABRI, the other manufacturers, had including, will be well warn to take as a starting point this philosophy! Comfort and advanced technology are used, thus veiled already two points of the CABRI concept. Third the field of the flight concerns. But on this subject, we can only take note of the enthusiastic declarations of its manufacturer, because in the current state of the project it does not have us possible yet to proceed has a flight test. The fourth shutter of importance relates to safety. Indeed, I acknowledge not to be tent to test a crash landing has edge of Bell 47, of an Alouette nor of a Squirrel. Passive safety is a notion absent of the dictionary of the old machines, same if certain exceptions exist. Indeed, Hughes 300 become Schweizer gets a level of safety enough eleve. But at all events, the new standards CS 27 which regulate the resistance to lightning, the anti-crash sieges as the anti-crash fuel system impose a degree of safety which would make impossible to certify the current machines nowadays, including R44 of Robinson. The EC120 has been the first light helicopter certifies according to these new standards. It is thus as much by conviction that by obligation which the CABRI wants to be like machine extremement sour

Anti-crash
The CABRI has passed with brilliance the tests of certification of the anti-crash sieges and the adjacent structure in accordance with standards EASACS-27 and FAR 27. These very difficult tests have been realises on bench-catapults specialise Millbrook company, close to Luton (the U.K.), under the control of the EASA. Customs include/understand a shooting incline towards the front, of 19 G, and a shooting to the bottom, of 30 G Are measurements the efforts in seat belts, in the spinal column, and the impacts on the tete; all are satisfactory, with a margin ranging between 15 and 50 %. Cesucces eta it a eta EP extremely important for the programme of certification of the CABRI, because it made it possible to validate essential the architecture and the structure of the apparatus. The anti-crash structure constitutes one of the principal technical challenges of the program. It made the object of a help of the Management of the Programs of research to improve safety. While making survival possible has vertical speeds of 2' 000 ft/min., which is well a superior has speed in autorotation, this present technology an important potential of improvement of safety. The CABRI G2 will be done the very first helicopter has pistons has to satisfy the new standards.

Technology 2OO6
The rotor is has I' helicopter what is I' wing is has I' plane. But contrary the aerofoil has fixes, the generation of the bearing pressure is a quite complex business. Often, one speaks about profile and the celebre series of the NACA is known of each one. And it is true that according to the profile uses, behaviour in flight of a plane east modifies. That is worth of course also for the helico, but to use such or such profile is only one of the many parameters which make that a rotor functions or not. In the case of the CABRI, Guimbal started from a profile ONERA which it A modifies to hold specific account of the needs for the CABRI. We are in presence of composite blades of latest generation, without time limit of life. An autorotation character largely contributing has the safety of a helicopter: Helicopteres Guimbal has chosen a rotor with an inertia 40 % higher than the requirements of 1' armee americaine, always very concerned of the life of the servant boys. The figures indicate a double inertia of that of R22. That comes on all from an important steel ballast at the end of each blade. Faithful to its origins in Eurocopter, Bruno Guimbal has chosen a three-bladed rotor on tete semi-rigid rotor on butees spherical. We can done await us has a machine of good a manoeuvrability and a good aptitude for turbulences. The shock absorbers of trainee are signs Lord. As a whole, the principal rotor of the CABRI strongly resembles has that of the EC120 of Eurocopter, a reference. It is thus not surprising to note that the rotor arriere resembles has y meprendre has a Small window. This anti-torque rotor carene contains 7 symmetric blades of an entirely new technology. The choice of a symmetric solution makes it possible to reduce the weight, knowing that the noise of the RAC is not a problem for a so small machine. Let us note has cetitre that principal sound emission comes from echappement. This last setrouve done turns upwards: it is bete like hello, but effective sacrament. All the beam arriere is a unit mono block weighing only 7 kg. Of visu, derive the arriere shows a small size. Thus, the sensitivity to the cross wind in work ground should be reduced and a test in flight will inform about stability in lace once I' apparatus stabilizes of cruising speed. Bruno Guimbal indicates that it is possible to release the swing bar in hover: that promises and desire gives me for turning over has Aix-en-Provence. this Fenestron imitation especially developed for the CABRI has besides ete brevete within the framework of the agreements between Guimbal and Eurocopter. The transmission arriere is conventional, as besides limps it of transmission arrierre. The BTP is like any other part entirely chosen by Guimbal. All the major parts are fabriquees from ebauches forgees. For entrainer all that, Bruno Guimbal east turns to Lycoming 0-360 of 180 cv detare for the needs for the CABRI has 145 cv, which should ensure an excellent reliability. The choice of the good Lyco old man was not done by conviction, but quite simply because it is the best compromise available to date on the market. Useless of preciser that Bruno remains more than attentive with the development of the diesel engines, of which of breux name concepts are more than promising. Another promising way could be in the concept of new the minis turbines under development at several companies, like Pricelnductionen France, it is certain that the future passes by an engine turning to the Jet-A1, but for the moment, us so mines in 2006 and the venerable Lyco is the only reasonable choice, especially in term of reliability. Yes, you read well, it is indeed of one 0-360 and not a IO 360. Does Done not of injection have edge of a helico which wants to be avant-gardist? ! Bruno delivers his mink to us: On a rustic engine like Lycoming, an injection does not bring anything. Remember that the injection of an engine aviation uses a rudimentary technology and n;a nothing has to see with the complex systems of the modern automobile world. Thus, the carburettor Facet of the 0-360 does not consume more, is not less reliable but pese much less heavy and coute as less expensive as a solution has injection. Remain the foutu problem of carburizing icing. For this reason, it is very important to know that the engine of a helicopter, contrary has that of a plane, east couples has a free wheel. Thus not of inertia in the event of icing carbu like that procuree by the propeller of a plane! When ga frosts, the dry engine arrete and it is useless of preciser "Ca does not do it" has edge of a helico, to take again an expression of our youth. But Bruno would not be Guimbal if our Trouvetout did not have invents a parade has this report little rejouissant. Thus, the CABRI is equipped with an automatic system advance certifies which prevents carburizing icing. In same optics, the engine of the CABRI is equipe of a lighting electronic which is the STC object. As already evoque, I' echappement style chimney of boat makes it possible to lower the noise level in a spectacular way. Like all large the idees, it is simple like hello, but still was necessary it to think of it. It goes without saying the regulation of the power is done by a governor: those which have pilot a Robinson apprecient the system which automates the admission has the instar of the regulator of a turbine. The flight controls are not only parts nice to use, but once more precise in the detail. Thus, the friction of the collective pitch is positioned so as to allow its operation without releasing controls. Another easy way per puts demount the controls of flight in two movements. Click-clac, it is removed, folds and arranges in a small trunk: it is magic! The electric circuit is has 12 V. A light solution and well adapted with the requirements in energy for a light helicopter and, as said it has right title Frank Robinson: "When my car will be 24 V, my helicopter will be..." the central dashboard holds a semi-traditional avionics. Standard racks per put to mount radios of the type Bendix/King Silver Crown or Garmin. Airspeed indicator, variometre and altimeter traditional frame a beautiful screen LCD of 130 X 98 mm. This MFD containing flagstone stamps activates has high luminosity gathers the parameters engine and other indications for the control of the helicopter.

Performances
With Vne of 120 kts, the CABRI is weapon for constant descents. To 100 % of the continuous maximum power, the cruising speed will be of 100 kts and always of 90 kts has 85 % of the power. Bruno Guimbal speaks about a very weak ecart, independamment of the weight. The maximum mass is fixed A 700 kg and the evoque manufacturer a tare weight of 430 kg. Question about the ceiling in hover, Bruno says that the CABRI will have performances honnetes, my is not exceptional because the aerofoil privilegie safety with good performances in autorotation and normal flight.

Finances
Currently, the selling price aims of a CABRI is has 240' 000? HT. Does by way of comparison, the importer of Robinson indicate 190' 000? for do R22 and Sat-Heli invoice 250' 000? if you wish to acquire Schweizer 300 CBi. Like always, our articles suppose the monetary parite between the green bill and the euro, thus adjust according to the rate of exchange at the time of the purchase. But the purchase price is only one criterion in the cost of a aeronef. Maintenance, the potentials like possible butees calendar and the price of the sets mecanic are all of the factors entering final calculation. The engine of the CABRI has emblee of a potential of 2' 000 H, it is traditional. The sets mecanic are Ca leu for TBO between 3' 000 and 4' 000. Let us take the example of one limps of principal transmission: at Guimbal, the TBO is of 3' 000 h. Actuellement, the manufacturer is not able to indicate a price for a general revision. But Bruno Guimbal wishes to propose tariffs which will not depasseront those of R22. For current maintenance, draining engine is always has 50 H, but the premiere intervention on the helico is made seulementa 200 h. Notons also that currently, Helicopteres Guimbal is not yet prononcee about the butees calendar. II remainder has esperer that the CABRI will echappera has this French speciality which wants that a unit mecanic is good for revision generate at the end of 12 years, it does not matter the hours with the meter. Schweizer, Enstrom, Bell and the others prove decencies since that it is completely coherent to reason only of numbers of hours, a very important vision for the private individual who He steals qn' per annum a hundred hours. Private individual? Yes, the CABRI is not only a helico for the flying school. With its tank of 170 L which allows a 5 hour endurance and a reel trunk has luggage which swallows two bags cabin with the standard Air France like two beautiful satchels, the CABRI allows beautiful weekends has two.

For when?
With the present stage of the things, Bruno Guimbal espere to be able to certify the CABRI during second half of the year of this A nnee. The company considers a rate of initial manufacture of a machine per week. Manufacture owes F anger has Aix the-Miles oil the beautiful ones and old workshops of the air base have libere a surface of 2000 m2. The company is under discussion avancee with several serieux customers who have proclamation their interest to become distributors of the CABRI. Maintenance will be effectuee by workshops agrees, but the modalites of approval must still be definies. It is done a very beautiful adventure which is likely now very good to succeed. Frank Robinson A proves soon thirty years ago qu II is completely possible of revo-lutionner the field of the light helicopters. We already took go with Bruno Guimbal to follow revolution of its beautiful adventure. We would be happy of soon being able to announce other good news to you. Then remain has I' ecoute

[mesh1matrix2000]

Your efforts are greatly appreciated, thank you.

[CentralS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HELOFAN http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3862983#post3862983)
Why not a turbine engine?

Why are we constantly using piston when turbine is lighter, more reliable, less complex?

It may be more expensive initially but in the long run?

Why not? Simple. Cost.Why not? Obvious : there is not ANY 100kW turbine available for that kind of job.

[Graviman]

Thanks, Flyin'ematlast - interesting article. I wish Bruno Guimbal the best of luck with this well thought out design.

[Heli-kiwi]

Quote:
Why not? Obvious : there is not ANY 100kW turbine available for that kind of job.

I believe there is and it doesn't have to be complicated either.
Simple = reliable.....and oh my look at the price! These are priced to compete with Lycoming in the light GA market.Maintenance requires an oil change every 500 hrs, Spark plugs every 1000hrs,and a non disassembled turbine visual every year.They even guarantee an overhaul in their factory at less than a third of the engines purchase price.
Why wouldn't you go this way?

http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/products.html

[Bravo73]

Why wouldn't you go this way?

http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/products.html


Because they're not certified?


Innodyn will offer a number of Turbines to meet the experimental pilot’s needs.

[Willyboy]

The size of a turbine goes hand in hand with it's efficiency in general. Smaller turbines generally use more fuel to provide a given amount of power, because the tolerances become so important cost of production is increased. Another factor is rpm, the smaller it is the faster it has to turn. On the extreme side of things model turbines can spin over 140,000rpm :8. That kind of Rpm requires bearing replacement frequently (don't remember the specific time frame).

[CentralS]

Why wouldn't you go this way?Are you kidding?

Have a look at the FAQ :

"When will the Turbines be available?
We expect to begin delivering production Turbines during the fourth quarter of 2007, with consistent production and deliveries beginning in 2008. We are currently performing ground and flight-testing on the Turbines and Firewall Forward kits. While we are anxious to see our turbines flying in as many aircraft as possible, we are reluctant to rush sales and delivery until we have conducted sufficient tests to assure ourselves that the performance and reliability are what we expect."

The Cabri has already got its certification. The engine had to be choosen at the beginning of the design process, not now when people are asking "why not a turbine?".

Good dreams till the next version.

[Flyin'ematlast]

I notice that the Innodyne site describes the turbines as being for "experimental" aircraft and so I assume that they have no intention of getting them certified. The site also makes no mention at all of heli's.

This is a great shame as a Cabri with a 165 HP turbine would be a fantastic machine (and with the large fuel capacity it would have a reasonable endurance even with a turbine).

I would not be surprised to see G2's in the USA fitted with turbines in 10 years time and run under the experimental category (would give the JetExec's a shock :cool:).

Ian.

[CentralS]

http://www.loop.aero/news/2008/January/9/1

[CentralS]

On the vega display the frogs have spelt litres wrong...
The "frogs", as you say, have designed a bilingual equipment.
Imperial units are also available : I suppose that you'll prefer gallons, p.s.i. and other 'antique' units!

Anyway, the display is now totally different : that picture is an early version. Also, there is now a fifth button for fuel management on the right side.

[DennisK]

Bruno's G2 is a good looking ship, and will be available with many new features.

Plasma ignition, all composite airframe, ditto rotor blades, no finite parts anywhere, other than the Lycoming 0-360 J2A series engine. (delivers 145 bhp) Automatic carb heat control, rrpm band from 450 to 620, fenestron 7 blade T/R system, 700 Kg MAUW, VNE 130 knots, 171 litres fuel capacity which can give five hours endurance, 35 litres an hour, glass instrument presentation with conventional back up on the vital figures, 20 Kg per pax luggage locker, great rotor inertia with a possible two second delay for lever down following power failure, fly and forget rrpm co-relation and a fluffy tuft of wool as a balance aid.

EASA certified on 14th December 2007.

Read February issue of LOOP for my full air test and a dozen on site pictures.

Best wishes to you all,

Dennis Kenyon.

[TheMonk]

DennisK,

Are you THE Dennis Kenyon who did the 300c Aerobatics? Wow, way cool. Nice to know you.

:}

Monk

[Flyin'ematlast]

Dennis

Thanks for letting us all know about the first proper review of the Cabri. It reads as though you liked it alot.

Having only flown R22 and R44 to date I can't wait to get a chance to fly one. I will have to be arrange an hour's "training" in one with the french company who have ordered the first production machines if I can.

What are your thoughts now you've had time to think on it?

Thanks

Ian.

[poor southerner]

Is it me, or does it look really small (think jabiru in the fixed wing world, for those who know what one is) Is that gear really far enough apart

[cyclic_fondler]

DennisK - great detailed article.

With a Vne of 130kts, proper luggage space, modern electric gizmos and if the price is right, then this could be the future of trainers/ personal helicopters.

And he even talks about a "bigger one, including a 4 seater one day" and in my view , the obvious name for that would be a G4 !!! If people train up on a G2 then the chances are they'll want to upgrade to a G4 and not a R44! This would be healthy competition for Frank but as the G2 hasn't got into full production yet, the G4 would be years away.

I wish Bruno all the best in being successful in this venture.

CF

[Graviman]

I thought the Plasma Ignition system was worth some investigation (Thanks, Dennis):

http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/

Being a trade name for electronic ignition, it's not quite the system i thought it was though:

http://www.plasmacombustion.com/

It seems like only yesterday that i was reading about lasers improving combustion performance. Expect a revolution in diesel engine power-to-mass when this becomes widespread.

Expect various exhaust heat recapture devices to hit the market at some point too:

http://bingofuel.online.fr/bingofuel/index.htm

This one works by reusing the exhaust heat to convert a fuel/water emulsion into a hydrogen/oxygen rich fuel. Pity it is tainted by the "free energy" garbage, as it is actually a sound concept. The exhaust heat energy just goes into overcoming the H2O chemical bonds - no mystical effect there. :rolleyes:

[CentralS]

For the first time ever, Eurocopter buys helicopters.

Last week, Eurocopter's CEO has visited Hélicoptères Guimbal's new facility and both parties have signed a contract on providing EC's training centers with Cabri G2.
They also signed a firm order for the first helicopter to be delivered this year to the Kassel center in Germany.

[Graviman]

Me wonders if they are contemplating buying design rights or a manufacturing licence. Why not, it is a good design and would benefit from ECs customer sales/support network...

[northpoint]

Reports of the R22's demise may be premature. A reasonably equipped new
R22 will cost around $250k + shipping, say around £140,000 to fly away in the UK. A new G2 Cabri has a list price of €249,000 or £184,000+

[CentralS]

Me wonders if they are contemplating buying design rights or a manufacturing licence.Not at all. They are not in any way interested by manufacturing such a small helicopter : it would cost twice!

They simply need a safe, reliable, modern and low cost machine that behaves like an EC for teaching debutants ab initio.
And the Cabri does it.

[DennisK]

Bruno Guimbal's Cabri.

EC are very obliquely involved with Monsieur Guimbal's new machine. Yes it is a smaller ship even than R22, but the cabin size is similar but wider. Conventional cyclic and the only reserve I had was the heavier than expected controls.

Still, as an instructor, I teach off the standard beam with the even heavier Enstrom models.

Royal Air Force teaching. Change .. Check .. Adjust .. Trim.

Once the G2 arrives in the schools, I'd suggest instructors teach leading with trim. (horror of horrors I know!) But they don't fly 74s manually and trim later.

In any case Monsieur Guimbal may be working on lightening up the cyclic.

A 40 Kg Luggage locker is standard and the crew's bum are a sensible distance from the point of impact.

Also a very expensive F1 style rubber fuel tank that doesn't tear when impacted. Lots and lots of safety goodies like that. M/R head and blades subjected to 200,000 events for certification.

I liked the G2, mainly because I feel ... like the R22 did, it will further the ab initio market for everyones benefit.

It is a sharp handler, but I don't think Bruno has any plans to let me display his pet baby.

For those that aren't LOOP readers, the Feb issue has our air test report which will answer most questions above. All can get on the distribution list.

Just log on to: www.loop.aero ... and its free. Currently circulating 25,000 copies to a dedicated audience. Overseas ... they will ask you to pay postage only.

Best wishes all,

dennis Kenyon.

[heli-mad]

It looks and must be a fantastic heli....

as an FI i would prefer this to the R22!!! Lets see if UK schools will trust it in the near future.

We must move forward, helis like this must me supported!!!

The price difference looks small if you consider what you're buying..

It is like comparing the EC120 with the 206...hence Bell stoped the production now!!!

Could that be the end of the R22:confused:hhhhhmmmmm

This chap's story reminds me of Frank Robinson's success story....

Only time will tell, can't wait to fly one of this now:E

[22clipper]

Great article, once I got used to reading through a letterbox slot. So cabri is french for goat & the turbine R44 is a goat too, what is it with these manufacturers?
Wonder if the 'on condition' nature of cabri maintenance will make it cheaper than an R22 over the 12 year cycle of the latter?
So is someone going to organise a pic of the Cabri against the background of that new 'bridge in the sky' the frogs have bulit themselves?

[manfromuncle]

As much as it looks like a great little heli and possibly a better trainer than the R22 I can't see it really catching on until it is as cheap to buy and run as the R22. Cost to the punter rules the training market. The only reason people choose the R22 over the R44 to do their licence is due to cost. Everyone knows the R44 is a much better heli but when their PPL is going to cost £8,000 more, people always choose the R22, unless they are stinking rich and planning to buy an R44.

[boffdj]

Hi Guys

I'm a PPL(H) trainee, nearing completion, read the boards quite a lot, but wanted to contribute to this one.

Having flown an R22, plenty of EOL's... some quite bumpy, sadly upset by the lack of goodies (glass), range, speed, and other shallow matters like that one. I'm very interested in this machine, for one if Dennis and the Gumibal's claims are true, this is a safer machine - more time to get the lever down makes safer low hrs pilots, and smoother less damaging landings. The glass is very cool and reduces pilot load, and the more advanced fenestron and head make it a better trainer if you are ever looking into the bigger 120's etc

I like it, and I think that it's popularity vs. the R22 will come down to a combination of the above and the cost. The cost of cousre will depend on a number of factors, insurance (possibly safer), Fuel consumption with that new gadgety plasma thingy and auto carb heater and light weight, resale - which I imagine will be much slower than the R22's.

I for one hope, and allmost imagine that you will be cost neutral / minimal. If I'd have been given the choice at say £10-£20 per hour more... I'd have probably done it.... More intertia in the head, is a very good thing.

Having said that, I don't regret a minute in the 22, can't wait to finish and get involved in some type conversions though. 44 next

I do very much like the idea of it getting a mini jet engine though ;-)

[manfromuncle]

"more time to get the lever down makes safer low hrs pilots,"

Why is everyone hung up on how long it takes to get the lever down in an R22? Weather, hitting things (the ground, fence posts, trees etc), lack of fuel, lack of carb-heat, lack of power (eg too heavy, downwind), and bad-decision making make up the majority of small helicopter accidents.

[boffdj]

Sorry to wake you up manfromuncle... maybe I should have said:

More inertia in the blades allows more time than an R22 does to sucessfully enter autorotaion, whilst the practice of quick decision in the R22 is valuable experience, the extra time in the G2 may allow more sucessful decisions to enter auto, of course this is only one aspect of safe flying a heli and pilots should allways considder "Weather, hitting things (the ground, fence posts, trees etc), lack of fuel, lack of carb-heat, lack of power (eg too heavy, downwind), and bad-decision making make up the majority of small helicopter accidents"

Of course the G2 also has auto carb heat, so that's something I'm glad you pointed out.

Many appologies.

[boffdj]

Also missed the fact that the G2 has digital fuel computer. It tells you burn rates and time left. Another possible R22 vs safety feature.

Thanks for making these points manfromuncle

[manfromuncle]

Yes, auto carb heat sounds good. Much better than the carb-heat assist in the R22 which no-one seems to like.

If they get the cost per hour-to-the-punter down to under £30 per hour more than the R22 - then it'll be a winner.

Although it's a bit 'chicken-and-egg' with the numbers of aircraft available. If there is hardly any around then people won't train on them (bit like the Schweizer these days in the UK).

We'll see what happens, I wouldn't mind a go in one myself.

[DennisK]

Okay guys ...

Here's a personal estimate of the likely costs of flying the Cabri G2 and I hasten to add these ARE personal and not approved by the parent factory. (Just my forty years of experience operating light training helicopters.)

Many operators don't want to know about the depreciation element and IF you are clever enough to sell your machines for the same or more as you paid for them ... then wipe out that figure.

Depreciation is based on a twelve year write down of 70% of the capital cost. ie ... a residual value of 30% in twelve years time. Probably conservative.

Insurance came today from an aviation broker offering a CSL and a declared
hull value of £180k.

I imagine the trade will get a buying discount of the RRP but who knows. AND once the type arrives on the second hand market, the capital (fixed) costs will come tumbling down, albeit as the machine gets older the hourly maintenance and parts cost go up!.

So here we go.

Acquistion cost. Euro 250,000. Say £180,000

Fixed costs.

Depreciation. £180,000 less residual £54k
Gives £126,000 over twelve years. £10,500 per annum
Insurance at 5.4% CSL 9,720 " "
Interest at say 6% on £180k 10,800 " "
Some hangarage Say 2,500 " "

Total fixed costs PA. £33,520

Fly 300 hrs PA £111, 70p per hour
Fly 500 hrs PA 67. 00p " "
Fly 700 hrs PA 47. 98p " "

Hourly costs.

Fuel at 38 litres an hour 105p per litre £39. 0p per hr.
Airframe parts. Best guess ! Say 12. 00 " "
Lycoming engine £12,000 @ 2300 hrs 6. 00 " "
Labour Another best guess ! 15. 00 " "
Unscheduled bits & pieces Say 5. 00 " "

Total estimated hourly cost £77. 00 " "

Total hourly cost.

300 hrs PA £188. 00p
500 hrs PA 144. 00p
700 hrs PA 125. 00p

So there we have it. For the high houred operators who build in ALL their costs and fly 700 hrs. ALL over £125 per hour is sales margin. Fly 1000 hrs a year and the rate drops to £110. Buy a second hand Cabri and the rate could be 75% less than the above!

Just to say again, the above are my estimates and I await with interest the factory published figures.

And just as a side note. The fixed costs are mostly related to the acquisition cost, not the name on the side of the helicopter, albit depreciation and insurance could vary marginally.

Accountants please have fun with my figures!

Best wishes aLL,

Dennis Kenyon

[22clipper]

Well, I never thought I'd say this, but I'm a bit envious of you guys on the continent. With the low production volumes me thinks it's going to be a looong time before we see one down here in Oz.

[SEL]

Being a bit dim in this and many other matters, how will UK certification of the Cabri go? Having been EASA approved, how far does that go with the CAA here in the UK? Are we looking at a lengthy certification process for the Cabri in the UK? (Apologies if I've missed this question elsewhere)

[mesh1matrix2000]

The Cabri under EASA regs is certified for the UK.

[Pitchpull]

Looks like Guimbal will be operated typical French style. I have emailed them twice for info & they have not both to respond, at least not in the last 4 weeks. If only they learnt some people skills. Any one know of how or through who to arrange a sale?

[22clipper]

Same here about two years ago when I tried. Always wondered if I'd have got a response if the email was in French?

[Brilliant Stuff]

It could be the spam filter.:}:}:}

[Willyboy]

News!
New flight video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2_zWf-Ywpk

and if you go to www.loop.aero and sign up for a free acount you can read a review of the Cabri it's a bit fiddly and god only knows why you just can't download the pdf but the feb 2008 edition has a flight review.

[rotors88]

Have attempted to contact these guys numerous times, numerous ways. As yet zero response back?? They obviously don't really wont to sell these machines.

[rick1128]

A few notes. It is an impressive looking helicopter. It appears that the high inertia rotor system will make this a much safer helicopter than the R22. Would love to fly one and compare. The biggest issue I have with it right now is that they are associated with Eurocopter and it appears that they are learning some of Eurocopters bad ways. Lack of communication and parts availability. If they can get past that and understand that the market they are dealing with is much different than the government market the Eurocopter works best in, they will give Frank a hard run for his money.

Personally, it is my view that most flight schools treat the R22 as a throw-away helicopter. Run it out, sell it for as much as they can and get and new one. In many ways it makes sense for them to do that. With reasonable component and inspection times, this helicopter will do quite well in the training and personal market.

[turboshaft]

rotors88 - Which email address have you been using? Try [email protected]. Bruno does respond, just bear in mind that Guimbal is still a relatively small team.

rick1128 - Parts issues? Give them a chance to get the thing into service!!

[Pitchpull]

Yep, that has been one of my contact points at least three times in the last 4 months & still nothing. Gotta love the French attitude to doing business

[DennisK]

Hi lads,

I'm not apologising for the Guimbal factory team, but just to say that when I visited them at Aix en Provence in February, they had moved into a spanking new factory a couple of weeks earlier, the wall paint was barely dry! ... so they won't have been able to settle in yet and I know my air test published in LOOP has generated too many enquiries for them.

Their current PR person is Mrs Guimbal who has two small youngsters to look after.

But .. the plans are in hand. Staff recruiting, component suppliers, production workers etc. While I was with them no assembly line existed and I doubt if that has happened even now. And just to make one point clear. The Guimbal factory IS NOT controlled by Eurocopter in any areas other than a future deal on production ... perhaps five years or more away. It is entirely a Bruno Guimbal personal show.

I guess the LOOP publicity really was a little premature. Bruno Guimbal was indicating to me that first production ship was probably two years away, so he is not looking at any sales programme for now. (still doesn't excuse a non reply situation to phones/e-mails tho. But he speaks particularly good English.

Of course the currency is now working against him. The US dollar is available for tuppence, while the Euro is at its strongest ever. Perhaps we should scrap the pound and take on the Euro!!

Take care all,

Dennis Kenyon.

[rick1128]

Turbo,

I was referring to Eurocopters lack of communication and parts availability. I hope that Guimbal's association with Eurocopter doesn't teach them Eurocopter's bad habits.

[No Foehn]

The guy's got a young, small company in the middle of the herculean task of developing a brand new helicopter and getting it into production. He hasn't even delivered his first one yet and his order book's full without any marketing effort at all.

If I were him, I certainly wouldn't distract myself from the task in hand by spending hours concentrating on the mountain of enquiries (no doubt for the most part frivolous) he must be getting. Given he hasn't sold anything yet, the cost of employing someone to do it for him must make poor business sense. In a couple of years, if it should come to pass that he needs to actively sell the thing, it may be different.

IMHO, in this day and age of easy communication, too many people seem to feel they're owed a slice of other people's time.

[robinson44]

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc358/philippe036/cabri/iXAirRception1erCabriG2FGXRU129.jpg

[206Fan]

Never seen that one before, what type is it?

[robinson44]

A cabri, 2 seat, piston, from Guimbal helicopter (Aix les Milles) ex-eurocopter staff.

This picture during the official delivery for the first one operational in a FTO (Ixair toussus le Noble) the 19 September.
Since yesterday, you can learn a pplh on this type for 400 Euros an hour.
regards,
Philippe

[206Fan]

Ah excellent.. cheers!

you can learn a pplh on this type for 400 Euros an hour.

Screw that, R22 is bad enough in euros lol!

[FloaterNorthWest]

The proud parents introduce the new born to the world.

[gyrotyro]

F-GXRI the middle of the three was at my local airstrip last weekend. It looks great close up.

The owner of the strip has a plastics moulding company and makes moulds for Cabri.

[RavenII]

I like the TR design, looks fancy on such a small chopper :E

[krypton_john]

400 Euro per hour? That is a joke, isn't it?

[RVDT]

Not if you are paid in EUR as opposed to South Pacific peso's! ;)

[VfrpilotPB/2]

Me thinks Uncle Frank will be forced to come out with somthing else, otherwise his nearly sole small Heli market will start to be diluted,

My what a good looking little thing it is, being ex Eurocopter it may be that a lot of very good prior background research and knowledge has helped this craft immensely, .. I would like to see how they fly, and react, cannot be as bad or as twitchy as the R22 is now.... can it?

Anyone flown one , or touched it?


Peter R-B

Vfr

[206Fan]

Me thinks Uncle Frank will be forced to come out with somthing else, otherwise his nearly sole small Heli market will start to be diluted,Id have to agree there, after looking at them videos, def..

Thou i wouldn't mind a play in it!

Cabri G2:
General characteristics
Crew: 1 (pilot)
Capacity: 1 (passenger)
Length: 6.31 m (20 ft 8 in)
Main rotor diameter: × 7.2 m (23 ft 7 in)
Width: 1.24 m (4 ft 1 in)
Height: 2.37 m (7 ft 9 in)
Gross weight: 700 kg (1543 lb)Performance
Service ceiling: 3963 m (13,000 ft)R22:
General characteristics
Crew: 2
Length: 28 ft 8 in (8.7 m)
Rotor diameter: 25 ft 4 in (7.7 m)
Height: 8 ft 11 in (2.7 m)
Disc area: 497 ft² (46.2 m²)
Empty weight: 796 lb (389 kg)
Loaded weight: 920 lb (417 kg)
Max takeoff weight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_Takeoff_Weight): 1,370 lb (635 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Lycoming O-320 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycoming_O-320)-A2B or -A2C flat 4 piston engine, 124 hp (93 kW)
Main tank total capacity: 19.8 US gallons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_gallon) (75 liters)
Main tank usable capacity: 19.2 US gallons (73 liters)
Optional aux tank total capacity: 10.9 US gallons (41 liters)
Optional aux tank usable capacity: 10.5 US gallons (40 liters)

[mikelimapapa]

Ok, gross weight is 1543 lbs, but whats the useful load? The only way it will be able to compete with the 22 is if they can match the cost per hour, cause thats the only reason people fly the 22

[Bravo73]

Yes, but if it was an option, would you rather train in an R44 or a Cabri? I know which I would choose. Vive le futur!

[206Fan]

Yes, but if it was an option, would you rather train in an R44 or a Cabri? I know which I would choose. Vive le futur!

Ahh two che Bravo..

Tho id rather the R44, trying to get my sign off done on it at the minute!

[ShyTorque]

The one at the top of the picture has an unfortunate registration. :eek:

[Senior Pilot]

There is plenty of information about the Cabri in this thread (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/176159-guimbal-cabri-g2-first-flight.html) and more in this one, (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/296022-cabri.html) too :ok:

[Runway101]

Any company offering or planning to offer (paid) demo flights in the Cabri right now?

[topendtorque]

The machine seems to be getting interesting with 270 kg total load compared to around 246kg in the R22

that would mean that it just may be legal to use in shooting ops with two 75 kg crew, 40 kg rifle and ammunition, five kg tracking gear and maybe 2.5 hours endurance with 15 litres reserve.

certainly the three blades would have to be a smooth platform.

i note that the engine runs at 50 rpm more than in the R22 but the consumption is stated at 34 lts per hour instead of about 36 per hour in the R22 install. Something does not add up there.

does the engine assy use the lightweight (ally inserts) cylinders or were they patented to Franks' inventions only?

If they were all steel and then the ally insert pots put on then it would make a fairly mean machine.

There is only two problems, we would need about 50,000 hours of relatively surprise free hours to prove it and a price reduction of at least 60,000 Euro. I don't think it whorthwhile to wait for the the US dollar to drop more as the price will mean no new machione purchases if the exchange goes to high.

[Runway101]

i note that the engine runs at 50 rpm more than in the R22 but the consumption is stated at 34 lts per hour instead of about 36 per hour in the R22 install. Something does not add up there.

Difference carburetor vs. fuel injection?
Or maybe that "in-house digital ignition control"?

[RVDT]

TET,

Something does add up - Plasma Ignition - explained here (http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/Products/FAQs.htm). STC it on your 22 and you would possible get similar savings. At least it would be one less mag you have to keep repairing or have they fixed that?

No 2000 hourly inspection, no "finite lifed items" if you read the TCDS.

It does have a luggage space that you can actually use.

More inertia in the MR, so a student might actually learn something in a touchdown auto.

I have read that it flies very much like a 120/350 as you would expect.

As a pilot/engineer for nearly 25 years, and privileged to be flying one like the top one in the leading photograph, comparing the R22 to the Cabri is like comparing a Model T to the current MINI.

Saw an R44 recently with a popout float system installed. The inflation cylinder was under the pilots seat!!! How do they get away with this??:ugh:

As for the R66, my own thinking is that current certification requirements will delay this aircraft for some time.

There is plenty of room in the current market for this aircraft. Granted it might take a while to have any effect on the US market, but so far it will probably sell because of the R22 not instead of!

In certain areas the foibles of the R22 are accepted because labour is relatively cheap to just keep fixing them. This is not the case in the Euro zone.

Of course one thing you may have to consider is the mods you would have to do so them cows will hear you!:ouch:

[krypton_john]

What is the market for this ship - training, general use or a mix? Frank designed the r22 as a commuter but it quickly established itself as THE trainer. The R44 is the worlds biggest selling rotorcraft and is a general use commuter/utility ship.

The cabri will be a great trainer if it can be comparable to the r22 in DOC. If it lacks lifed components, why is apparently so expensive to fly? Being faster and having luggage space does not make it any better for training. Having two seats makes it useless for pretty much everything the r44, the world's biggest selling helicopter, does.

So I think this is a beautiful, technically excellent ship but it won't succeed unless it can be operated about as economically as the r22.

[Bravo73]

krypton john,

If you are comparing the Cabri to the R22, I imagine that the Cabri is significantly quieter than the R22. (Has anyone actually seen or heard a Cabri in flight to confirm this?) This will be very appealing to certain markets where noise issues are high on the agenda.

If you are comparing it to the R44, the only thing that it really loses out is the 2 extra seats. However, especially for private owners, how many times are those 4 seats actually filled with people? Lots of R44 owners just need the space for baggage, something that the Cabri caters for elsewhere.

I don't even think that the fact that it is priced nearer an R44 will be an issue either - there's a market for both. Let's take the car market as an analogy - there are plenty of 5 seat saloons (Mondeos, Mercs etc) that are the same price as smaller, higher-tech, 2 seater sports cars (Boxters, S2000s etc). They might sell more Mondeos, but they still sell plenty of Boxters...

[topendtorque]

No i haven't had a chance to check the maintenance schedules, will do sometime soon. what is the maintenance procedures also, can things be fixed up locally after a company "in school", or is it going to be forever - remove component - return to Frank, err sorry FRannnsss.

Noise is becoming less of an issue for cattle work, in fact a bit less of it is often a good idea. Low stress all that sort of thing.

A photograph that I saw somewhere from underneath, spooks me a bit, when I think of the engine compartment heating probs that some other close cowled types have. We are talking 35 degrees C plus for the duration until next Easter right now, right here.

it does appear to be more of a competitor to the CBi rather than the R22.

The thing about lots of umlimited 'life' in the way of component time (as with the CBi) is that the insurance cost escalates dramatically while all this stuff is swinging around your head in pristine nick rather than deteriorating at $90 per hour. Any less than 600 hours per year and the CBi becomes very expensive to insure.

It can be a simple formulae, 80% of 20% or 100% of 5/5ths, who knows, a bit late tonite for me to calculate.

but I tell you, electronic ignition sure has my attention, as does some decent fuel injection. (been wanting to do that to a G5 for a long time)

[FLY 7]

I hope the Cabri is a success and spawns further developments. But, of course, this would take many years.

There is, as yet, no perfect 'light' helicopter. All the options have their compromises.

[RVDT]

FLY 7,

This is the spawn. Bruno is responsible for a lot of design on the 120 and the 155.

Robinsons are like Topsy, kinda just growed.

[TheMonk]

Sexy itty bitty little thang ain't it?

[Freewheel]

Brandtzag,

You're going to be inundated there.

I'd suggest you send it to Paco, who can arrange for it to be viewed via his publisher's website.


Phil,

Hope you don't mind, you've gone and done a good job and more work is all the thanks you get!

[Zao]

Note that iXair price for the Cabri is 320 euro with flight instructor, while their R22 is at 400-450 euros per hour. Prices could go down with smaller companies. Cabri's operating cost should be less than R22's since she has no life limited parts, whereas you have to throw the R22 away after 2200 hours...

[Hedge36]

I'd love a copy, and would be happy to post it to my server for everyone else.

[PEASACAKE]

I have just come back from looking very closely at the Cabri on show in Paris, and noticed the absence of trim tabs on the main rotor blades.

Anyone know how they track the blades for flying high or low with increased speed (I know pitch rods are adjustable before you point out the obvious)

PEASACAKE

[starflex3]

Well I for one thing think it is great to see a new helicopter type.
It is easy to sit there and say it should be this and that, but I cannot imagine the cost, blood, sweat and tears that most go into making even the smallest and most simple of helicopters and then deal with the civil aviation regulators to get it type certifed.
Good on you Bruno for giving us a new choice in that maket.
I hope all goes well with it.
So when will we see one in Australia.
Now where can I get the money for one, any ideas?

[GroundhogDK]

Since IXAIR put down an order for the first 10 and Eurocopter for the next 5 after that, its unlikely anyone else will own one until sometime in 2010. That is unless Guimbal manage to ramp up production somehow.

[Hedge36]

Folks: the specification sheets are available for download at Guimbal Cabri G2 (http://gsriders.net/cabri/)

Thanks to brandtzag for sending them over yesterday.

[TheMonk]

Not sure if this has been posted, but I just came across it.

YouTube - Guimbal Cabri G2 at GIFAS centennial anniversary (2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agz5_SqBbBo&feature=related)

Monk

[TheMonk]

One more.

YouTube - Clip vidéo Cabri G2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8xrJq3lHlc&feature=related)

e8xrJq3lHlc&feature=related

[Spunk]

So, are there any news about the Cabri G2? Any operator out there with some comments on the aircraft? (Good, bad, pain in the a**). Is it usable for primary training, what's the maintenance issue on it? How long do you have to wait for one if you ordered one today?

[DennisK]

Hallo Capt Spunk and for interested others.

Have just returned from a further day at Aix-en-Provence flying the Cabri G2 for a write up for Blades Helicopter magazine.

My report concentrates more on the technical aspects and a six page article will appear in the April issue of Blades.

For those who don't know, Blades and P1 are part of the LOOP aviation newspaper group and are available without subscription by simply logging on to LOOP.aero (http://www.loop.aero) and registering. Loop monthly and Blades Bi-monthly.

The factory were building serial number 1007 (seven so far) while I was there and subject to sales the plan is to eventually build ten machines a month.

Price is a problem just now with the UK pound worth tuppence, but the launch customer Ixair at Toussous le Noble have two on their school and a further thre on order. They are leasing out a whisker less than the local R22s.

I guess an order placed now could be for an autumn delivery but E-mail the new sales manager ... don't quote me! Ask Julia Depinay for a factory quote. Hlicoptres Guimbal S.A. (http://www.guimbal.com).

Best wishes to all,

Dennis Kenyon.

[Pandalet]

If they're planning to turn out 10/month, that implies they see a market for that many; any idea on what timescale they're planning to reach that level of production? The real problem I see (as others have already pointed out) is that to make training in a Cabri G2 worthwhile, you either need to be about to buy one for yourself or you need to be assured of being able to SFH one when you want it. This in turn implies that there will be enough of them around to make it worthwhile. Are Guimbal planning to sell mostly into Europe or are the 10/month production going to be sold world-wide? What about service centres? Will they piggy-back on Eurocopter's network?

I'm unlikely to be flying one any time soon, having made my choice of starting aircraft, but it would be good to see a serious contender for Frank's finest.

Oh, and if you're planning on signing up to LOOP.aero, I strongly suggest not giving them an email address you care about; they will continue to send out junk mail forevermore, no matter how many times you 'unsubscribe' or ask them not to.

[DennisK]

Hi Pandalet,

Thanks for the interest and my article will comprehensively deal with most of the usual queries that get raised, but for yours ... the ten-a-month figure is simply the factory's target production but absolutely has to depend on making the sales and that figure is at present the maximum factory capacity from the premises they have.

Can't accept your point about not buying or training 'til you can SFH. There's never been a helicopter produced that didn't arrive with that situation, but it didn't stop the R22 becoming a massive success. Factories, especially the smaller ones, work on a slower time table than you and I would like. M Bruno Guimbal has his head well and truly screwed on and will gear the factory up as the sales come in. But they do need to get the first few sold I feel. There is one firm in this country who are in pole position for a dealership and I know they plan to SFH to all clients who learn on the type. And remember I take the view that a G4 is inevitable!

On the maintenance aspects, no dealers will be appointed unless they have 145 approval and factory course engineers. Yes I believe the existing EC network will be used but mostly in Europe.

Sorry to hear of your LOOP 'junk' problem. First time it has been brought to my attention. If you haven't already e-mailed either Dave Calderwood or the owner Sam Spurdens and related the problem, write direct to either Dave or [email protected].

Having put in two days flying on the pretty Cabri, I was impressed, particularly with the firm handling and many safety features. (albeit a requirement under Easa's Part CS-27 certification.) Also liked the T/K period ... almost two seconds at MAUW. As good as the B206 and a mile better than the R22. (But the blades do turn the wrong way for we USA fanatics.)

Tried and trusted Lycoming J series engine, Glass cockpit panel, 'Plasma' ignition, five hours endurance, 130 knot VNE, safety features everywhere, especially the 'stroking' seats where a vertical impact of 30g is reduced to just 3g, then the Feneston T/R and all composite construction including the M/R blades.

Finally no 'finite life' airframe components ... everything 'on condition' so you don't throw it away after 2,200 hours. And a nice tit bit, remote door locking and ignition blocking. Remember when you first had it on your car!

Anyway for those that want to know more, just log on to Loop/Blades.

Best wishes to all,

Dennis Kenyon.

[mesh1matrix2000]

Dennisk

I am registered for the loop magazine. I have searched the loop website and can't find any reference to the Blades mag. Can you point me in the right direction please.

[DennisK]

Just call the Babraham office and ask them to add your name to the Blades distribution list. If you ask nicely they'll post you a dedicated April issue of Blades. Has my Cabri G2 update. LOOP.aero (http://www.loop.aero)
Regards, Dennis K

[mesh1matrix2000]

Thank you.

[Ian Corrigible]

According to this Av Week blog (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3aacfafe56-1b68-41c3-b4e0-200ea532a03e) the Cabri was included in a recent French defense ministry 'pre-Paris air show briefing,' presumably because of its use as the basis of the ORKA-1200 VUAS.

http://sitelife.aviationweek.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/5/582c0ac7-ec4a-4469-a5dd-ab99e3e6c820.Large.jpg

I/C

[CentralS]

2 new Cabri G2 have been delivered recently :
S/N 1004 is F-GXRV, S/N1005 is F-HBEA.

C.S.

[CentralS]

S/N 1006 is F-GRIL. It has been delivered in september.

http://central.s.free.fr/Pprune/1006%20instrument%20panel%202.jpg

S/N 1007 was delivered last week. More info to come soon.

S/N 1008 is on final assembly. It will be the first one with floats. Although the manual switches will be the usual way to inflate, an automatic immersion system will be fitted for the distracted (it will not be optional).

C.S.

[DennisK]

And standby for the first two or three to arrive in the UK. (no sources ... just my pet mole)

Dennis K

[Heli-Ice]

Even after a lot of Google'ing, I still haven't found the Guimbals full specs.

Do any of you have them and willing to share ro have a link to where it can be found?

Here is the link to the TSDC (http://www.easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/c/doc/Design_Appro/Rotorcraft/TCDS%20EASA.R.145%20Cabri%20G2%20Iss%202%2025%20May09.pdf)

[CentralS]

This is the very first one delivered to Eurocopter.

http://central.s.free.fr/Pprune/1007.jpg

Yes, you read right, Eurocopter, for the first time in his history, acquires a brand new helicopter from an other manufacturer.
And it's only the beginning of a long story ...

[9Aplus]

Congrats!
:D

[CentralS]

S/N1009 has been delivered last week to Heli Aviation.

http://central.s.free.fr/Pprune/1009.jpg

[Freewheel]

I always understood there was no governer fitted to the G2, yet I note on the top row of warning lights;

GOV. OFF


Has a governer now been developed?

[Helififtysix]

Does anybody have an idea or know when the first one of these will appear in the UK?

Apologies if I have missed something obvious why its not here yet

(Ooops just read backwards, Dennis K any idea what part of England they will end up?):}

[CentralS]

Hello,

the Cabri has been equipped with an RRM (Régulateur de Régime Moteur, engine speed regulator) since the beginning.
It's a digital regulator with many inputs and among others, an output that controls throttle.
It works perfectly, even in desynchronized mode (i.e. autos with low RPM) and it takes hand softly, quickly and firmly when you pull the collective to regain power if you don't want to complete your autorotation.

I don't think that what is traditionnaly called "governor" on other helos can do that.

On early pictures in this thread, one can see a blue light : it's the "gov off".

C.S.

I always understood there was no governer fitted to the G2, yet I note on the top row of warning lights;

GOV. OFF

Has a governer now been developed?

[Freewheel]

Well,


Having gone back to the article posted by Captain Hollywood on Page 3 of this thread, I find reference to a governer switch being located on the end of the collective. :ouch: :O



Thanks CentralS, I'll be quiet now.....

[CentralS]

The Cabri now in operation in Germany :

Ausbildung zum Hubschrauber Privatpilot PPL-H (http://www.heli-aviation.de/start/school/privatpilot-ppl-h.html)

Ausbildungskosten der Hubschrauber Privatpilotenlizenz (PPL-H) (http://www.heli-aviation.de/start/school/privatpilot-ppl-h/ausbildungskosten.html)

Gute Flüge :ok:

[CentralS]

AERO 2010 will take place from the 8 to the 11 of april : AERO April 8-11, 2010 (http://www.aero-expo.com/)

4 Cabri will land wednesday in the morning at Friedrichshafen airport.
3 of them with different finish will be on display in halls A3 and A6.

Hélicoptères Guimbal has launched his website : Hélicoptères Guimbal - accueil (http://www.guimbal.com) .

[R44-pilot]

Anyone know whos getting the first one in the UK? i.e to have a go on, not a private owner. And when perhaps?

[leemind]

and if you are in the south of England, you've got yourself your first customer!

[skadi]

One of the first ones in Germany crashed yesterday, only minor injuries of both on board:

Helikopter am Flughafen Karlsruhe-Baden abgestürzt (http://www.ka-news.de/region/rastatt/Helikopter-am-Flughafen-Karlsruhe-Baden-abgestuerzt;art6216,388093)

http://www.ka-news.de/storage/scl/home/481507_m1w515q75v54624.jpg

http://www.ka-news.de/storage/scl/home/481508_m1w515q75v55497.jpg

http://www.ka-news.de/storage/scl/home/481513_m1w515q75v25518.jpg

skadi

[Spunk]

Good Morning Skadi,

do you ever sleep. Everytime I want to post some news you've already done it .:ok:

Too bad to see that this master piece of helicopter science is not infallible.

[topendtorque]

That is a great pity, the only thing that I could translate in the article was the Euro 300K bit.

Good job it didn't hit the concrete or it would really have cost a bit.

A great photo of the turned inside out skid gear. Does it need stronger crosstubes and / or attach points or was it really tested beyond the proper drop test limit?

Nice to see that it is still upright.

Was it an auto practice perchance??????:{

cheers tet

[9Aplus]

Unofficially


We are also so sorry for this accident. The crew called us this morning,
and the main point for us is that everybody is fine, and back to work
today. They told it was a pilot error, and admitted they were practicing
a risky failure simulation they were not trained for. And they are
already thinking to replace the Cabri by a new one.


Safety proven :} life is going on.... my order still stands :ok:

[bellsux]

ridiculously long words translated....


Helicopter crashed at Karlsruhe-Baden airport.

A helicopter crashed on the grounds at Karlsruhe-Baden airport on Monday afternoon, injuring the two occupants, fortunately only slightly.

According to initial findings from the police, the two men had begun a test flight within the airport area in a Guimbal G2 Cabri helicopter. For reasons yet unknown the aircraft fell from a height of from about two to three meters. The helicopter was severely damaged.

The first estimate of the damage amounts to about 300,000 Euros. The Federal Bureau of Aircraft Accidents Investigation in Braunschweig has been asked to investigate the cause of the accident.

[cpt]

Bruno Guimbal, in another forum, explains that the pilots were practicing tail rotor failures....

[CentralS]

Official information from Hélicoptères Guimbal :
Hello,
we confirm, alas! these very sad news.
However, it was partly exaggerated, as often : the two pilots are uninjured, and were back at work in perfect shape as soon as a few hours after the accident, when we spoke to them. At least some good news !
As far as we have heard from them, and this is definitely unofficial, they were practicing tail rotor failure when they lost the aircraft control, and stroke the ground at some significant speed - backwards.

They very honestly recognise a pilot error. They are very satisfied with the aircraft behaviour. Its fuselage and powerplant seem to be intact.

Both occupants had very low time on the Cabri type.
This aircraft had just, a few days before, joined its operational base in Germany, following a four month intensive evaluation period by all Eurocopter pilots, in France.
We have numerous and only excellent feedback from this operational evaluation, that was recently beeing concluded.

We only can repeat our message, initiated by the program's test pilot : " don't do anything with the Cabri that you wouldn't do with another light helicopter, and you'll enjoy a tremendous improvement in safety".

We all wish that this accident remains a bad baptism of fire. Fly safe!

Bruno Guimbal
Helicopteres Guimbal president

[waragee]

Good news the drivers are ok, unfortunate for Bruno's new type but the cabin looks to have withstood the bingle pretty well. Interesting that they were going backwards at the time, maybe the practice emergency had been let develop too far but a reasonable outcome in real life. I would like to hear a bit more about the control authority of the fenestrom.

[GroundhogDK]

Does anyone know the registration and operator?

[skadi]

D-HETA s/n 1007 Motorflug Baden-Baden

[CentralS]

D-HETA s/n 1007 Motorflug Baden-Baden Motorflug is an 100% owned subsidiary of Eurocopter.
Both on board when this sad event happened are Motorflug employees.

[Agaricus bisporus]

We all wish that this accident remains a bad baptism of fire.

Oh! The dangers of messing with a language you don't understand!

Bruno, your statement as quoted above says that your product was tested under operational conditions and was found "bad"ly at fault.

Hoping their insurance company doesn't cotton on to this!

[delta3]

Mod: Not intended to blame pilots, quite the contrary, so mod you may remove my speculation.

I know from personal experience that the Motorflug guys are good in tail rotor failure training.

Tail rotor failures require quite some aero dynamic performance of the tail fin, depending on the settings of tail rotor power. It appears to me in the Cabri design that the effective surface is (in relative terms) smaller than say R44, B206. So we could have a sudden stall of the tail fin, combined with low inertia, that make the maneuver quite a bit more tricky.

m2c
d3

[topendtorque]

Just becoming a bit confused here, but then I saw this really confusing bit.


Tail rotor failures require quite some aero dynamic performance of the tail fin,


Was it a practice T/R failure from the hover;

1) where the drivers started getting disorientated and then moving backwards before touchdown, or

2) was it simulated in forward flight and it developed into a T/R at hover after the forward A/S had washed off to come back to number 1, or

3) do they fly backwards and then simulate a T/R failure to drop to the ground before rotating into the forward A/S configuration?

In any of these events how can the quote above have significance when all airspeed is washed off, or nearly so?

[delta3]

Topendtorque

Perhaps along these lines....

Stuck tail rotor at 90% or 110% required for hover,
run on approach using side slip to cover for the fenestron performance gap and replacing it with tail fin power.

If well performed using even using a crosswind component, to avoid lateral motion during run on.

Sudden stall, making the heli spin...

d3

[topendtorque]

Thanks D3 and understand, just up aways we saw; -

don't do anything with the Cabri that you wouldn't do with another light helicopter, and you'll enjoy a tremendous improvement in safety".

WRT the PFM what does it say about landing after a T/R drive failure in forward flight?

Hopefully there is nothing spooky in that prescribed procedure.
cheers tet

[delta3]

Don't know about the PFM, but at the current stage of experience (+- 10 ships) things may still need to be better understood at the limits of the envelop.

Personally I' am impressed with the body integrity, one of main design goals of Bruno, which appears to be achieved in real life imho.

d3

[longtime lurker]

From Flight Manual (Issue 2)

Tail rotor failure

It could consist either in a tail rotor transmission failure, or in a tail rotor loss.
This failure can be detected by sudden yaw acceleration - nose to the left - and/or totally ineffective pedals.

Caution : Nose to the right : probable engine failure
Nose to the left : probable tail rotor failure

Hovering IGE :
1. LAND IMMEDIATELY,
2. Reduce throttle in order to reduce left yaw rate,
3. Cushion contact with the ground by applying collective pitch up to high stop if necessary.

Other flight cases :
1. Switch governor OFF,
2. Adjust power to maintain 70 to 80 kt IAS,
3. Reach an appropriate surface for an autorotation running landing,
4. Carry out a full autorotation landing. Reduce airspeed as late as you can. Land with as much airspeed as the surface permits. Use small power inputs to correct yaw.

Yaw control failure
Hovering IGE :
1. LAND IMMEDIATELY,
2. Lower the collective slowly enough to land smoothly, while rolling-off throttle to reduce yawing nose to the right.

Other flight cases :
1. LAND AS SOON AS PRACTICABLE,
2. Adjust IAS to 70 - 80 kt IAS,
3. Adjust power to minimize sideslip and keep nose to the right,
4. Reach an appropriate surface for a running landing.
Carry out a cautious landing. Reduce airspeed as late as you can. Land with as much airspeed as the surface permits. Use small power inputs to correct yaw.
Note : Prefer wind from the right.

[waragee]

longtime lurker, are those instructions from the Cabri PFM or training notes from elsewhere, thanks

[CentralS]

Bruno Guimbal on LoopTV :
LoopTV.Aero (http://www.looptv.aero/LTVCategory105/2058/CABRIG2HELICOPTER%E2%80%93AERO2010.aspx)

[helisdw]

Northern Helicopters in Jonkoping (Sweden) now appear to have a Cabri G2 on site that's priced around £200-245/hr depending on how many hours you fly.

This published price seems pretty comparable to the R22 or S300 in the UK - of course travel and accommodation needs factored in.

Given the increased acquisition cost of such a new machine, I can only imagine that the running costs make it financially competitive. Or perhaps it is an introductory offer - either way, it makes for an interesting hour building option...

Simon

NB I have no connection to this flight training school or the Cabri G2 - my observations are only based on information from the website.

[Flying Pencil]

Just a note of caution. That rate is for a 100hr time building package, Do NOT be tempted to pay for this up front to get a deal!!

[helisdw]

Flying Pencil - thanks for highlighting the hour building factor. Quite agree about paying up front for large chunks of time (unless you can guarantee to fly the hours rapidly...).

From what I saw on the website, it was around £200 if block purchasing 70hr and £245 if paying hourly (and taking into account exchange rate from SEK to GBP).

As I wrote before, I have got no link to this company but thought it was interesting to see the approximate costs being charged for a brand new type of helicopter. Given some of the earlier discussions in the thread about operating costs, it would appear that they are similar to the established training machines (R22/S300).

Of course, the company may be running it at a loss (or maybe just at cost) which would thus nullify my assumptions! Never-the-less, there is at least a vague indication of what one might have to pay to fly the G2.

Simon

Edited for clarification

[tony 1969]

Be very careful in your dealings with Northern Helicopters. DO NOT PAY UPFRONT.
Search Mikael Randhem (he is the owner) on Pprune and then see how you feel about going there.
P.S. there is no way they would run the machine at a loss

[Infran]

cabri.se has the flight manual in pdf form
http://www.cabri.se/documents/fm_1011_se-hjr.pdf
its going to be interestin this winter with a minimum operating temperature of -5 degrees celsius.

[CentralS]

its going to be interestin this winter with a minimum operating temperature of -5 degrees celsius.Their FM is not up to date. The Cabri is fully certified at -20°C.
Complete testing has been ran, including cold start after one night outside by -20°C without protection. No external help has been provided (no heating, no additionnal "warm" battery, etc.) and the engine and all the avionics have started perfectly.

Don't worry, the Cabri is not afraid of the cold.:cool:

C.S.

[wmy]

So, i wonder, how one would deal with snowfall during a flight after reading in the G2's FM "Flight under snow is prohibited".
This would make the G2 unusable for winter flying.... ???

w.m.

[Infran]

Seccond Cabri has arrived.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc511/infran/JonkopingFall/IMG_4639.jpg

The cabris makes our other helicopters look a bit dated :)

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc511/infran/JonkopingFall/IMG_4640.jpg

[AnFI]

Hi LongTime Lurker

The FM extract if acurate may have a hidden danger ...

It looks like the word 'power' is maybe used meaning two different things - not sure.

There are three terms used collective lever, throttle, power.

Normally when we say power we mean with the collective lever - but it can be power with throttle in the context of T/R failures.

The danger, for response to T/R failure, is if power is reduced with throttle (reflex of 60% of pilots) whilst too high, the RRPM will probably be insufficient to enable a gentle landing..... you get something like 'the Brazillian' video.....

[22clipper]

Variety is the spice of life. I've had a go at the other 2 machines in that pic, would dearly love to get some stick time on Bruno's creation. Wonder how long before we get one down under in Oz?
PS: That's an interesting hangar type U got there, what's the story on that Infran?

[CentralS]

Wonder how long before we get one down under in Oz?Hello 22clipper,
if you live in Sydney, this is the place to go : http://toyoko159.free.fr/HTT.kmz
I don't know exactly when the first one will be delivered but it might be at the end of the year.
Mark will tell you more : Welcome to HTT (http://www.helipad.com.au/)
C.S.

[Matari]

S: That's an interesting hangar type U got there, what's the story on that
That looks like one of those clever Norwegian "Rubb Halls" that one sees dotting the landscape up yonder.

They come in all sizes, are incredibly strong, easy to install, and Norwegian weatherproof.

Rubb A/S - Norway-based Rubbhall, plasthall, fabric buildings (http://www.rubb.com/rubb-norway.php)

[22clipper]

I've shared the cramped confines of an R22 with Mr. Donohoe on several occasions CentralS. How remiss of me not realise that an acquaintance in my own backyard has his eyes on one? How good is this? I can chuck the 'learn French' language tapes & save the airfare to Europe now!

[CentralS]

Hi 22clipper,

you may by now book some hours if you want to be the very first one flying Cabri in OZ.
Two of them are navigating from your antipode to our antipode.

Here is one of them, with her Ferrari-like pearly-yellow paint :

http://central.s.free.fr/Pprune/1020.jpg

[22clipper]

I'm drooling here squire. Sent an email with a booking request for me & a mate last month. They were due in January as separate deliveries apparently but then Mark got the bright idea he could fit 2 in a container & save a buck.
Do you think it would be undignified for an old person to sleep out at his front door like the youngsters do when the want to be first in line for an Ipad or Xbox?

[CentralS]

The Cabri is by now available with an EASA certified float system. An immersion detection system triggers the deployment in case...
All the details here : Hlicoptres Guimbal (http://www.guimbal.com/nouveau/index2.php?l=6#p=40)

C.S.

http://central.s.free.fr/Pprune/Gonflage.jpg

[helihub]

http://www.helihub.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/cabri-floats2.jpg

[Ian Corrigible]

CentralS - That there's some bloody impressive close-formation flying! :E

I/C

[9Aplus]

Great news, Zodiac "rules" , now G2 is ready for my islands :ok:

[22clipper]

Air con I note also on their website, that's pretty impressive for a 4 pot motor.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Cracking pictures :ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

[Kulwin Park]

I wonder if this great looking machine is going to be at the Australian Avalon Airshow in March 2011?? :E

Also, so now it has flown overseas, and I see it in a hangar above with a H300 & R44, how does it compare in prices of running and operating costs compared to these machines. Anyone got any good figures to quote? Maybe just one or two? :ok:

[9Aplus]

Runing numbers are much better :ok:

[CentralS]

I wonder if this great looking machine is going to be at the Australian Avalon Airshow in March 2011??No, they won't. The Cabri are now on the container-ship between Europe and Sydney. It's a 40-day trip.

C.S.

[chalmondleigh]

Overall cost of ownership of the Cabri will be good. Yes, I know the list price is more than the R22 but consider if you will;

1) No 12 year rebuild, regardless of hours actually flown

2) No airframe corrosion, it's all composite

3) No fatigue life limited components

The experience of ownership will be good too;

1)The cabin is the same width as the R44 and it comes with leather seats and a good equipment fit as standard.

2) 45 US gall/170litre tank giving 4.5 hour endurance

3) Proper baggage compartment, 200 litre capacity will take two airline size carry on cases

4) Low flyover noise from Fenestron tail rotor and vertical exhaust.

5) Superior autorotation characteristics - better even than some turbine helicopters let alone 2 seat pistons

6) Very smooth flight from fully articulated rotor

The biggest selling point that Bruno Guimbal points out is the Cabri's safety. It is tested to 31g vertical load which in practice means that you are likely to survive a 2,000 ft/min impact. Just as a car designed in the 1970s would not meet current safety standards so it is with helicopters.

BTW, if you are wondering how I came across some previously unpublished information I have written about my factory visit and flight in the Cabri in the next edition of Rotor Torque.

[9Aplus]

:Dall facts well known to me, but I am secret Cabri G2 fan
Airframe is actually crash tested, approx year ago in Germany,
both pilots just walk away :cool:

[Phoinix]

Looking at this website The All New Cabri G2 | Helicopter Wise - An online Helicopter Magazine (http://helicopterwise.com/the-all-new-cabri-g2/) cabri is very expensive to run?

It's based on quite a lot of assumptions, thus being unrealistic to some extent. Is there any side-by-side comparison of actual hourly cost compared to Schweizer or robinson 22?

[500e]

"2) No airframe corrosion, it's all composite?"
Corrosion no but with the tail section & TR queries on other composite helicopter structures, other problems may be as big or bigger problem, this still has to be backed up with hours flown, + the French connection (EC like) response times.
A friend enquired18 months ago, still has had no response:ugh:
Lots of good points, think it is the way forward, but Co needs to sharpen up on customer service as that also reflects on owners perception of maintenance issues, times.

[Hughes500]

UK insurance is astronomic £ about £ 19k for £250k hull value thats 50% more than a 500 with 5 seats and 50% more hull value or I can insure 2 x 300's for less and still ahve change
The underwriters do not like the composite as unknown cost to repair and no history of machine
I agree machine of future but not sure cheaper to run than a 300. Fuel about the same currently 300's use 43 litres an hour for all training G2 is claimed 41 litres insurance is 2.5 times greater !

[victor papa]

Going to the factory shortly and can't wait to see for myselve.

I find the composite debate unfair though. Yes there has been composite failures recently but to my knowledge restricted to a manufacturer? As pointed out and if one wants to draw a link the Cabri tends to the EC's which have been using composites for a while without issue structural and non-structural?

If I am not mistaken then this means the problem is not so much with composites but a process used?

As said, I will see for myselve shortly.

[500e]

VP
I tend to agree with you regarding composite but it could be flagged as a problem by insurance companies.
The repair facilities are fewer than for existing structures, (higher cost?) impact damage could be spread over larger areas, the requirement for in-depth repair facility's will be very high, & as you say one leading manufacturer probably has a issue, hope the repair shops can keep materials, environment & skill levels high enough to ensure a satisfactory outcome.
As I say, like the look & specification lots of good things in the mix, especially the crash data, Not that we want to find out first hand.
Hope to visit factory if things stack up missed a visit a few weeks ago.

[Phoinix]

This can't be... nor real life flight hour price comparison???

[helihub]

UK dealer has been appointed by Guimbal

[John R81]

Who is it?

Strike that - I found Cotswold Helicopters

[FLY 7]

Guimbal appoints UK dealer for Cabri | Helihub - the Helicopter Industry Data Source (http://www.helihub.com/2011/06/07/guimbal-appoints-uk-dealer-for-cabri/)

Interesting that it describes the UK as "Europe's biggest civil helicopter market".

[John R81]

The other markets are very uncivil!

[Runway101]

When you guys speak about factory visits, how did you get invited? Interest in the G2 and known to be a real buyer? Or do you work for the media?

[9Aplus]

Send e-mail, describe what are your intentions....
I am quite sure you will be invited too :ok:

[niero]

Hey guys

I wanted to shed more light on the Cabri G2 in the pacific. There are 2 Cabris already in Sydney and the dealership is open for endorsements and aircraft sales. 2 should arrive in Christchurch New Zealand in the next month or so. More information on the following websites

Cabri G2 now available through Pacific Aircraft Sales, New Zealand (http://www.cabri.co.nz)
Guimbal Cabri G2 Helicopter Dealer Australia (http://www.cabri.com.au)

I so far have flown the Cabri 4 times and am up-most impressed with the Helicopter.

First of all, the helicopter gets hired out at the same rate as the R22. With only around 30 hours on the demonstrator and the aircraft being sold its hard to tell with complete serenity how much cheaper the Cabri G2 really is at this present moment. With this said I will put my entire worth on the table and bet that it will be miles cheaper the 300cbi, and 300c to run. The website that posted the running figures are far from the truth when it comes to owing an R22 or a H300cbi.

A little review of the controls:

About the stiff cyclic: I fount that the cabri has the sensitivity of R22 but the instant response you would get in a fully articulated system. The result a very quick, precise machine. (I suspect that a lot of the comments come from R22, R44 drivers who may not be used to operating the trim/forget to use it) I also would like to note that once you are trimmed out, the cyclic is perfect for maneuvering because all you need are "pressure movements" to change the attitude.

The collective is a nice change as well. The metal shiny grip is where you hold it, while the black throttle is left free to move. No more overspeeds due to students gripping too hard on the collective throttle. I doubt the Robinson R22 or the H300cbi figures incorporate those mishaps. Collective also does not raise or fall when let go to reach for the radios.

The mixture controls, magneto controls and the rotor break are above your head. Virtually eliminating the situation of accidentally pulling something you should not during the flight.

ELT controls are on the vertical panel in between the seats, again same deal here; really easy to reach, but hard to trip by accident.

The Sydney dealership currently has got one for sale for 400,000AUD and have got a listing on global plane search for the Ferrari Itallia yellow Cabri. 1hour in cabri is 500AUD.

Just my two cents worth to those who are interested.

Fly safe!

[Runway101]

500 AUD for 1 hour in a Cabri = 535.35 U.S. dollars. That's a steep price tag if it is supposed to compete with said R22 or 300. Is this normal for Australia?

And the collective doesn't drop in a new 30hrs shiny R22 either :}

[lelebebbel]

500 AUD for 1 hour in a Cabri = 535.35 U.S. dollars. That's a steep price tag if it is supposed to compete with said R22 or 300. Is this normal for Australia?

Yes. Going rate for R22 is around AUD500/hr incl. Instructor over here. CBi is the same, R44 is closer to $900

[niero]

In all honesty its also to do with strong australian dollar. (Actually, very weak US dollar, but hey same difference) and price of oil directly affecting the price of shipping parts.

Well, when I have flown it the collective didnt feel like it has a crappy biro-pen type of spring used in the R22 but rather was held there firmly in place and didn't feel like it was prone to wear like the Collective spring in R22. But you are totally right in saying that only time will tell.

[CentralS]

Hi there,

nothing new here since a while...
OK, let me show you a new version of the cockpit :

http://central.s.free.fr/Pprune/Twin.jpg

Remember this one : http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/296022-guimbal-cabri-g2-9.html#post5345571 ?

Well, what's new? Oh, yes, a dual glass panel!
The upper one is unchanged while the new lower one runs the GPS software.
They share a unique frame while beeing totally independant.
Also note on the console an integrated trackball with 6 (yes 6) buttons.
Left to the dual-screen, between the airspeed and the heading indicators, the attitude indicator is also a digital display. Included is a turn coordinator.

Last but not least, have a look at the pedals.
By pulling out of axis each of them, then moving forward or backwards the tiltable upper part, you adjust them to your size. Much simpler than adjusting your legs to the copter...
One size fits all!

Central S.

p.s. on the right side of the NAV screen, an USB socket enables loading of new charts or updated software.
Below this socket is a push-button for turning on the NAV equipment only, allowing the preparation -or transfer via USB- of a flight plan without exhausting the battery.
Power management includes all what you can think about, including auto-shutdown if you forget it.

[500e]

Nice layout
Still not found any electronic wool though :E

[HeliHenri]

Nice picture CentralS,
Is it the last model delivered to Germany ?

[CentralS]

Yes, this is the last one delivered to Heli-Aviation.

Helicopter School - training and further training for pilots and crews*- Heli Aviation GmbH (http://www.heli-aviation.de/en/school/)

C.S.

[Heli-Ice]

One can also get type trained in the Cabri here:

Helicopter Type Ratings | Northern Helicopters (http://www.nheli.se/training/type-ratings/)