Operating a Foreign homebuilt in the UK

[Zulu Alpha]

Does anyone know what the rules are for operating an aircraft on the Swedish Homebuilt register in the UK?
This would be a Giles 202 composite aircraft which is not 'approved' by the PFA. It was also built as a certified aircraft by CAP as the CAP222.
There is already a homebuilt Giles 202 flying on the Swedish register and that was imported from the US as an EAA aircraft.
I am thinking of doing the same but want to understand any Gotchas beforehand. I am thinking of importing the A/C from the US to Sweden and putting it on the Swedish register. I would then operate it in the UK but get the annuals etc done in Sweden ( this is a paperwork exercise so the aircraft could stay in the UK).
Many thanks for helpful answers

[tigerbatics]

I do not think you can do this. A Swedish aircraft in their home built category cannot be flown in this country without specific permission and on a very temporary basis.

The Cap 222 was never certified because the money to complete the job was lacking once it became clear that a substantial redesign was needed following the fatal crash in France when the rear end detached.

The Cap built 202 that was operated over here was on a CAA permit I believe. It may be that you could get one of those but that or an EASA permit seem to me to be the only hope.

I hope I am wrong because the 202 is a wonderful bit of kit. But this is my understanding of the position anyway.

[gasax]

thirty seconds with the search facility would have given you the answer - I'll save you the trouble.

Foreign homebuilts can visit for a month, with CAA permission there can stay for 3 months.

So you should get plenty of touring experience in if you go down this route!

The CAA have been wish to this ruse for a long time.....

[Zulu Alpha]

gasax, many thanks. I must have been typing the wrong question into google.

Has anyone ever asked the PFA about putting a Giles 202 onto a PFA permit?

ZA

[Rod1]

Give Francis Donaldson a call at PFA engineering, or send him an email. He will advise you of the current position re the a/c. If one has been put on a CAA permit then this is the obvious route to take.

Rod

[Mark 1]

There aren't any Giles homebuilts on the UK register, although the One-Design has gone through the PFA system.
I have previously bought a homebuilt in from Sweden and had the one month allowed by AWN52 before getting a UK permit through the PFA.
The Giles certainly fits within the parameters that the PFA are allowed to administer, but as a 'first of type' would require investigation by them to get approval of the design.
That is going to take a bit of time and money, but is, in principle, do-able.
The full list of currently accepted PFA types is at:
http://www.pfanet.co.uk/Engineering%20pdfs/Aircraft%20Type%20List-%20Order%20by%20Type.pdf

[Zulu Alpha]

Mark 1,

I have looked at the list. Unfortunately, there are no two seaters capable of Advanced aerobatics competition in it.

I am looking for an aircraft that can compete at Advanced when flown solo, but which also has a second seat to take my children to a contest or to show someone a lazy roll and loop on a Sunday. The Pitts S2 and Extra fit the bill but neither are PFA.

The Giles would fit my requirements perfectly.

ZA

[will5023]

Hi , there is a CR100 for sale on www.afors.co.uk (http://www.afors.co.uk), plus 8,minus 6, two seats and on a PFA aerobatic permit, full inverted and 3 blade MT, not mine but flew her for check flight today !

Will.

[Rod1]

There are some Pitts S2 aircraft on PFA permits, it is possible to build one (or it was) as an experimental project and at least one has been imported from the US.

Rod1

[stiknruda]

I believe that there are two, two hole S2's on permits. One lives not far from ZA. The other (G-PITS) is on rebuild in Ireland.

David, go the whole hog and just order a new Extra 300. You know you want to!


Stik

[Zulu Alpha]

Stik,
I can only afford the left wing of an EA300, but just need someone to buy the right one. Mr Goff didn't respond to calls or a letter. If you know someone else, I have a nice EA300 in my sights and a hangar and strip for it.
Just missed a great EA200, where I could have afforded both wings!!
ZA

[stiknruda]

ZA
Fixate more on yourself and Elaine - she will get to go places with you in the new Extra. This is not a dress rehersal mate, this is your once-only chance around the block. Your kids are bright/savvy enough to do well for themselves without you gift-wrapping their future in the Extra that you never had!
My folk spend all their time "skiing" - spending the kids inheritance!
Love
Stik

[Oldpilot55]

Here, here!

Its not a rehearsal..live just in case tomorrow never comes.

[tigerbatics]

Thought about an Eagle? There are a fair number about and it is rather nicer than an S2 and a PFA machine as well.

[eharding]

Thought about an Eagle? There are a fair number about and it is rather nicer than an S2 and a PFA machine as well.


I, for one, would pay good money to see ZA flying Advanced in an Eagle....in fact, I'd pay good money to make him fly one at Intermediate - it would make my life a lot easier.

ZA - if you haven't done so already, talk to AC about the process of putting the 222/202 on the UK register; very sadly, I don't think its ever going to happen again.

I hear rumours about the MX2 being brought onto the register, but they're exactly that - rumours.

[stiknruda]

As someone who has both an Eagle and an S2 in his hangar, "an Eagle is rather nicer than an S2", did make me smile!
Nicer if you want to trundle down to the coast with ageing aunt on a Sunday afternoon and show her a loop.
The roll rate is atrocious, I've only flown 4 different Eagles and none of them were "stellar" about the longitudanal axis.


The MX is not without its critics Stateside - and I mean chaps that have flown it.

[Justiciar]

The roll rate is atrocious

So I should have gone for a Pitts then :{

[tigerbatics]

There must be four very odd eagles about. The three I have flown were identical to all the Pitts S2s in roll that I have flown, save one which the Tiger club had several years ago and that was really terrible.

[Zulu Alpha]

I'm really looking for something like the Laser but with two seats.

Has anyone flown a Dyn Aero CR100? I'm told its more capable that a CAP10C.

[stiknruda]

Tigerbatics - all four Eagles (G-reg) roll at about the same roll-rate, one (Justiciar's) is nominally more adept and is far faster, than the others S&L.

But to compare them to a late, symmetrical aileron, spade enabled S2 - is pure fantasy.

All 4 Eagles will run away from my similiarly powered S2.

[tigerbatics]

Now I think about it I do not think I have flown any symmetrical aileron S2s. Does it make that much difference? It certainly does not on an S1 where I remember being very disappointed many years ago when I tried one against my friese aileron S1e. A bit better only I thought.

Either way I am sure that an Eagle would have no substantial difficulty with the present Advanced sequence which is a great deal easier than such sequences were 20 years ago when friese S1s and S2s were the norm.

[Zulu Alpha]

Either way I am sure that an Eagle would have no substantial difficulty with the present Advanced sequence which is a great deal easier than such sequences were 20 years ago
I thought that the common wisdom in the BAeA was that sequences were harder now than 20 yrs ago, mainly due to improvements in aircraft capability.
Maybe you can fly the advanced sequence in an Eagle, but I suspect it would be easier, look better and importantly score better if it was flown in a CAP, Extra etc.
I'm really looking for a PFA two seater that can do well in Advanced, rather than just ' have no substantial difficulty'.
ZA

[tigerbatics]

I have heard people say the sequences are harder now but I am not sure that anyone has really looked at older sequences. The figures are somewhat different and the combination of figures tended not to require as much power.

I have the Advanced known for 1984 and it is 17 figures and includes negative flicks on inverted diving 45 line and full vertical roll with stall turn ; about half the sequence is inverted and there are pushes to vertical halfs and a push into a tail-slide. Far harder than the 2007 Advanced Q programme.

However, whilst I think an Eagle would not struggle at Advanced and a Cap 10 would, (the Tiger Club will not let their Cap 10c fly Advanced and for their club competition this year used last year's intermediate because they deemed this year's intermediate too stressful for the Cap), you're certainly right that an Extra would be easier and for a given level of skill would score better.

Problem is there is no PFA two seater which matches your requirements.

[Zulu Alpha]

Problem is there is no PFA two seater which matches your requirements


Hence my question about the Giles 202

ZA

[tigerbatics]

You may find it possible to get an EASA permit for a 202. We have found them very helpful with our machine but that is the only way I can think of that would allow flying a 202 in England. Worth asking them I think.