FAA Helicopter training in UK?

[Uncle Munkle]

Hi Guys,

I'm the new boy and I need a bit of help!

I currently have 35hrs training in a R22; but for medical reasons I am unable to continue JAR.

I am seeking to continue my training under FAA Regulations;I have quite recently passed my FAA medical.

For personel reasons I wish to continue my flight training in the UK ,but I'm struggling to find a FAA instructor/school.

Can any one help.

Thanks.

[S-Works]

I am pretty sure you will draw a big zippo blank on that one!

[muffin]

It may be better to do the search the other way round and try and find an instructor from the US end. There was a guy who operated out of Gloucester who was an FAA and JAA instructor but I have not heard of him for ages. I don't know what the FAA regs are regarding school requirements though.

[Whirlygig]

Try moving the post to Rotorheads; I know there are a couple of FAA examiners in the UK and I think Tiger Helicopters can do FAA (they're at Shobden).

Cheers

Whirls

[Kit d'Rection KG]

Doesn't it strike you that, if you can't hold a UK medical, you're, fundamentally, not 'fit to fly' in the UK?

You might be able to twist the rules and keep flying, but it'll be through a loophole which will, in due course, perhaps be closed.

Fierce irony if you were to have an accident with a some element of medical cause.

Why not accept that there's a medical 'problem', and accept that flying requires a high medical standard, which, sadly, you don't meet any more..?

I'm sorry to hear you can't have a UK medical - but it could be worse, no?

[Whirlygig]

So Kit, are you saying that all US trained pilots are not fit to fly in the UK? Sounds like it to me. :rolleyes:

Cheers

Whirls

[S-Works]

jesus kit you are an asshole.

just because the Euro regs are platinum plated does not make them any better. The FAA have a vastly superior database of experiance on medical matters and have no worse a problem than we do under JAA.

In this day and age of diminishing GA flyers we should be supporting people to fly not discouraging them.

I assume from this and your other posts that you are a bona-fide sky god with a perfect medical profile.

[IO540]

Bose x is right on the mark above :ok:

One can spot the usual axe grinder from a mile away.

Uncle you have an email.

[Bravo73]

Munkle,

Try asking Helicopter Services in Wycombe. They should be able to find you someone.


HTH

[anti-talk]

Better still, get yourself out to us in Florida on a 1 week vaction and get finished off. The price difference should more than compensate for your travel expenses.
Check your PM's

[Gordy]

anti-talk...

There is such a thing as "visa's" and TSA requirements for training........

[paco]

Just one thing to watch for - you may need CAA permission to use their airspace and aircraft. Not a biggie, but one thing in the paper trail.


Phil

[dogpaddy]

You could give Tim Price a call down at Shoreham. Looks like he ticks all the boxes.

Check out his website, you'll find more details there:

http://www.shorehamhelicopters.co.uk/Home.html

regards,

dp

[anti-talk]

Yes Gordy,but that should only take about a month and with wx deteriorating over in Blighty I would suggest its worth the wait and the small extra cost.

[Bravo73]

Yes Gordy,but that should only take about a month and with wx deteriorating over in Blighty I would suggest its worth the wait and the small extra cost.

Yes anti-talk, but you could've bothered to actually read UM's opening post (rather than trying to promote your Florida-based flying school.) :suspect:



For personel reasons I wish to continue my flight training in the UK

[Kit d'Rection KG]

No, Whirly, I'm saying, very clearly, that someone who is medically unfit to hold a medical issued in the UK, and then twists the rules to stay flying, is trying to buck the system, and I think they ought to ponder the consequences of that.

I'm not going to waste my time going through all the arguments so well described in 'Attitude or Latitude' (Doctor Graham Barithwaite) (albeit, with reference to Australian safety rather than US, but the principles are the same), but I will say that the UK has enjoyed one of the best 'safety' records in the world, and that it's presently going downhill, partly on account of all the folk who think they know better. And there are lots of them.

Oh, by the way, Whirly, I've found a universally lower standard amongst US-trained pilots I've been around (trained, interviewed, or checked) than UK-trained ones, if that helps at all... Where did you get your qualifications?

[Bravo73]

Kit,

FYI, that's 'Whirls' you're talking to (not 'Whirly').

And, FYI (again), they both trained in the UK.

[helimutt]

Sorry but I have to agree partly with Kit here. I know his point seems argumentative but he is right in as much in that the CAA (JAR, whatever) won't grant him (Unkle Muncle) a medical for whatever reason. The FAA will ,so great, let him fly. The point here is that to fly, generally, in the UK, the medical requirements are fixed and therefore why let people get around the rules by doing another countries medical to enable him to fly here. There is usually a very good reason why people fail medicals.

If I lost my medical here, could I then go get an FAA medical/licence and continue to fly in this country. Ask yourself this question:- Would you let me fly your family around under these circumstances. that's the standard I use.

[Kit d'Rection KG]

Bose thingy wrote (without bothering to spell or capitalise properly, or use correct grammar, though I know I'll get in trouble with the forum stazi if I mention that):

jesus kit you are an asshole.

just because the Euro regs are platinum plated does not make them any better. The FAA have a vastly superior database of experiance on medical matters and have no worse a problem than we do under JAA.

In this day and age of diminishing GA flyers we should be supporting people to fly not discouraging them.

I assume from this and your other posts that you are a bona-fide sky god with a perfect medical profile.

To tackle your points in sequence by paragraph:

No, not at all, I'm a through-and-through aviation professional;

That's not statistically significant, as their circumstances (particularly with regard to weather) are markedly different to ours in Europe for the reasons that my good chum Graham highlights;

Why should we - what are the benefits to our society of this - is there a nett benefit in GA? I don't believe there is, whatsoever, and I'd like to see private light (leisure) aviation decline. Private light (leisure) aviation pollutes appallingly (mostly noise, but other 'emissions' too) and I stand with Clarkson regarding its worth. By the way, how do you view being 'under JAA' as significant?;

Yes, right in one!

Bravo, thanks for the correction - and thanks for the information that they have met a higher minimum standard than the very low minimum standard that I was talking about. I won't ask about resits and partial passes...

[Bravo73]

I won't ask about resits and partial passes...

Yawn. psyan's back.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/DoNotFeedTroll.jpg

[VeeAny]

Gents (& Ladies)

Whilst I can see the point of the argument of not wanting medically unfit pilots flying around.

The rules as they stand allow an FAA licenced pilot to fly in the uk, if someone can obtain an FAA licence and jump through the FAAs hoops to obtain it, why should they not pursue that if they cannot obtain a JAA medical. Surely if the object is to stop such people flying in the UK then all FAA licence holders should be stopped as they have not met a UK or JAA standard for something (I am not for a moment suggesting that this is the solution merely offering it is an argument).

I know of a couple of pilots who could not obtain UK JAA medicals and went elsewhere in europe to obtain their [insert name of country Gary can't remember] JAA medicals (so much for a european standard). These guys are very competent CPL and ATPL holders who would not have been able to pass a JAA/UK Class 1 initial issue medical at Gatwick.

Kit as regards to US v UK standards my experience which is probably not as vast as yours with regards to checking (meant truthfully not sarcastically even if it reads that way) is that there is a big terminology gap , and perhaps an emphasis on different parts of the syllabus(es), handling is emphasised in the US, theory in the UK, and a lot of pilots expect to get away with engine failures safely at lower levels than perhaps they would, but the competency when these things are discussed or allowed for on both sides are not too different.

Just my thoughts


Gary

[Kit d'Rection KG]

psyan?

Genuinely, may I ask, who?

...and if you're yawning, I take it I'm keeping you up past your bedtime?

:p:p:p

[Kit d'Rection KG]

VeeAny,

You might want to find a professional seafarer (or, indeed, big plank driver), ask him about flagging out, and wonder how you'll pay for next month's food, mortgage, etc...

[VeeAny]

Kit
I am sorry but as was probably the plan, you've completely lost me there !

[Edited to Add]
Since found out what flagging out is, and see what you are getting at, but surely the reduction in safety standard could only be proven if comparative stats of uk and [name any another states(s)] accident rates could be compared. I do have an interest in this stuff and I PROBABLY have more accident data than most others, and with what I have I doubt a FAIR comparison could be made.

Still don't understand the mortgage ref (but I am tired and my brain is not as quick as it was).

How does anyone suggest we 'Police' an FAA licence holder who has an FAA medical, but no JAA one and might not pass one coz he's never been JAA'd (or vice versa).

Should we all be tested to the standards required by the states we fly over ?

I do however support crossover training for licence holders who fly around in someone elses airspace, not that what I think matters in the global scheme of things.

GS

[Whirlygig]

Just for your information Kit, I hold a full UK JAA PPL(H) with a Class 1 medical initially obtained at Gatwick and renewed several times by an AME local to me. Some gentlemen pilots on here might also describe me as fit.

I have sat 6 of 9 CPL exams and passed all with an average of 92%. I also have a degree in Nuclear Physics and am a Chartered Accountant. If you'd been FA to read my profile before shooting your mouth off, you'd have known in which country I obtained my licence.

The more I go through the JAA system, the more I realise what a loads of old bolleaux it is. Most medical failures are due to eyesight. For example, the CAA won;t accept anyone who's had laser surgery on their eye. Why? They might; they're currently doing research on it at the moment. Perhaps the US are ahead of the UK in this aspect?

We none of us know why the original poster failed his medical (and neither should we); the point is, I do not believe that there are more accidents in the USA caused by ill health of the pilot than there are in the UK.

Cheers

Whirls

I can jump through hoops, that's all.

[Kit d'Rection KG]

Whirls (Wow, you see, I do learn!), if you don't like the colour of the balls, you don't have to play the game...

A full PPL, eh?

Rather than an empty one, I presume? What bollox!

So, well done for reaching the bottom rung of the ladder! I can (just) remember how it felt!

And, you've sat some of the CPL exams... Well, again, congratulations...


Please, carry on, you're clearly a sky god yourself! :hmm::hmm::hmm:

VeeAny, good luck! :ok::ok::ok:

[Whirlygig]

...and your point is .......:ugh:

Cheers

Whirls

[Kit d'Rection KG]

I doubt a FAIR comparison could be made


...and that's why the accountants win, the standards drop, the wages are lowered, and the flagged-out carriers, whether air- or sea-borne, win the day.


The profession, both plank and whirly, is going to hell in a hand-cart, and yet you all want to fight for the folk who are making it acceptable...

Genuinely, unbelievable.

Fortunately, I've sorted myself out with a great deal, and shall be making hay for many summers more...

[Whirlygig]

What ?????? Oh yes, of course, it IS a full moon!

All most posters are doing, is trying to give some advice to chap who has, medically, fallen between the US and UK system. And Kit, you're pontificating about the global future of helicopter pilots?

You may well have been able to fly from before I born but .... have you grown up since?

Please answer my question about the statistics relating to the causes of air accidents in the US and UK with regards to pilots' health. Or, hey!, let's go for it ... age!!!

Cheers

Whirls

[VeeAny]

Kit
We seem to be taking this thread away from its original purpose, and if the mods feel appropriate maybe it should be split.

I am genuinely interested as to why you think what you do specifically the ' hell in a hand cart comment'

My interest is flight safety based, perhaps with a real world slant (but only my real world).

I am a BIG proponent of keeping things safe, so I hope you will answer my question in as much detail as you see fit. Not so I can argue the toss with you or to prove a point, but to see where you are coming from.

Also you mention checking Pilots, but your profile doesn't really tell us what you do. If YOU think it appropriate can you tell us a bit more about what you do and your history, If you don't feel it appropriate or you think it'll give your id away fair enough, I ask just out of interest.

GS

Sorry everyone if this is keeping two subjects in one thread Iam just interested in the subject.

[starshiptrooper]

Surely a medical passed is a medical passed, especially in what is now an extremely aviation safety conscious country ?

For those who disagree...are you going to tell me that we need to turn the majority of public air transport (routing from the states) around because they have a FAA and not a JAR medical ?

[HillerBee]

Kit d'Erection or whatever. You're appararanly on some kind of wrong medication at the moment. It seems you have a lot of grief. Discrimination is against the law!

[helimutt]

Whirls, if you are that clever, why you flying helicopters? You got a screw loose or something? ;) LOL


Anyway, lets just take this a step further. What if someone couldn't pass the JAR licence but had an FAA licence and planned on using it only in UK. They also had American CPL and use of an N-reg a/c. Would it be alright to let them fly people about for money in the UK? Where would we draw the line?

[Bravo73]

Anyway, lets just take this a step further. What if someone couldn't pass the JAR licence but had an FAA licence and planned on using it only in UK. They also had American CPL and use of an N-reg a/c. Would it be alright to let them fly people about for money in the UK? Where would we draw the line?


Are you talking about AOC/public transport work, helimutt? Or 'corporate'/private work? Because, as you are well aware, there is plenty of N-reg corporate work with FAA licences going on in this country.

Is this 'alright' though? Well, it's technically not against the rules. But the DofT tried to phase it out recently and only seemed to manage to trip themselves up over the issue so had to drop it.

[Kit d'Rection KG]

VeeAny,

I'd have liked to have taken a lot longer writing the following, so apologies if it's not as cogent as you'd like...

First, I'm sorry that I'm not going to be more specific about what I do, as it would certainly allow some folk to identify me, and whilst we're in a forum where it is acceptable to remain anonymous, I'd rather do so. However, you may rest assured that, whilst I'm not going to start listing qualifications etc, I'm in a job in which it's essential to know what I'm talking about. If I didn't, I wouldn't be here.

Secondly, to tackle your very valid question about 'hell in a handcart'...
This is happening much more slowly in aviation that it has in the marine world. The central problem is, funnily enough, that we've got a system that is too 'safe'. If you fly a western-built aircraft in Europe, and you meet someone's minimum standards, then you've gone 99% of the way to an accident-free operation - and going that last hundredth of the way could be very expensive indeed. The drive for economic growth, and the general belief that de-regulation provides a fertile market for optimising efficiency (in the economists' sense of the word - be careful if you don't know what I mean by that), combines with this former factor to produce the aviation world we see around us, at least, here in Europe. It's certainly at work behind the fact that it's very rare to see a UK-flagged merchant vessel in many places, when we used to rule the waves.

If you don't think this is happening, then, without banging on about these matters too much, I'll pick two quick examples of what I'm talking about. Both examples relate to the big plank world, as it's easier to talk about what's going on there, but the same thing is happening, much more slowly, in the world of the angry palm tree. Some people will like the first one quite a lot, others will find it hackneyed:

Years ago, people were selected for pilot training by airlines, on the grounds of their suitability as assessed by various means, and then paid a wage whilst they were trained as pilots. The training maximised knowledge and ability, and cost was a secondary factor, in the drive to improve a (then) unacceptable safety record. Now, the majority are selected by their ability and willingness to pay, and pilot training, instead of a business cost justified by the need for high quality crews, has become an income stream (market factors are significant here, too, but let's leave them to one side). To counter any 'quality' offset this produces, pilots operate in a more 'regulated' environment, do less 'flying', and make fewer decisions - which enables a lower minimum standard of competence in the flight deck. It also makes life for the most competent, rather boring.

Secondly, for decades, certain States, notably the UK, have imposed regulations more stringent than those imposed elsewhere. Of course, stringent regulation costs money, and offers advantage to otherwise-regulated operators. This is partly why one major UK airline has lots of aeroplanes based at UK airports with registrations beginning EI-. The whole industry is now operating against any endeavour to improve things on a 'local' (State) basis, as witness the Boeing operators who are currently moving to Boeing's own procedures, and thus doing away with decades of 'improvement' drawn out through, for example, the CAA's Flight Ops Inspectorate. They are getting rid of methods which have been improved upon time and time again, and replacing them with lowest common denominator methods, derived without the benefit of experience, often to enable operation on more than one type of aircraft - a practice which, only a few years ago, was deemed insufficiently safe for scheduled public transport operations with large aircraft, but is now in vogue, because... It costs less money.

Fundamentally, to see where I'm coming from, you need to understand the economics at work behind air safety. Hardly anyone involved in the business does.

Oh, and HillerBee, where was I being discriminatory? I originally asked a question which reflected the possibility that we were seeing the FAA-licensed folk here all ganging up together... Then when Whirls decided to, in the vernacular, 'big herself up' on the grounds of a PPL and a few commercial papers, I thought she was fair game for a bit of a reality check.

[scooter boy]

So Unkle Munkle, if you wanted any proof that there are some really jumped-up unhelpful jerks out there who would just love to piss on your parade, then you have it, welcome to UK aviation!

I'm sure you will find somebody to get your license finished and that you will fly just as safely as somebody with a JAA qualification.

SB

[Kit d'Rection KG]

Mmmm, I can't find the parade, perhaps you could pass me your address?

And, for my part, I'll just say that the fewer people flying with medical problems, the better, from my own point of view...

[helimutt]

Bravo73, you work for one of the most decent operators in the country as far as i'm concerned. Okay, he is expensive!!:E

But, I bet you don't like to hear of N reg aircraft being operated here under the guise of Private use when we know fine well money is changing hands.
makes you wonder why operators go to the expense of getting/maintaining the AOC at great exoense!

[choppertop]

I have sat 6 of 9 CPL exams and passed all with an average of 92%. I also have a degree in Nuclear Physics and am a Chartered Accountant

And don't we all know it.

[Whirlygig]

A thread resurrected after, what, about 6 weeks to do nothing but make a comment about something posted when half the other posts from this thread have been deleted and therefore everything's out of context.

Is there yet another resurrection here? :hmm:

Cheers

Whirls

[Darren999]

Uncle.. Drop me a PM with your thoughts, I maybe able to assist. I also return to the Uk often.. In the process of getting me DPE also....:ok:

[007helicopter]

As far as the original question - As previous poster said Tim Price at Shoreham is the only person I personally know.

[lartsa]

There is aidrian parker cfi at breighton pm if you want details the dpe in the uk is adam house in the midlands

best of luck

[rotorboater]

Can I get an FAA license & medical in the UK or do I have to go to the US to do the tests etc.

Am I right in assuming that I then dont have to do a LPC on each type every year, I have 3 different ratings & its costing a fortune to keep current.

Thanks RB

[timprice]

Hi My name is Tim Price and instruct at Shoreham if you want to have a chat about the FAA system call me on 07951937144.


Regards


Tim
ps I instruct on both FAA and CAA

[birrddog]

rotorboater, ask yourself why you want an FAA rating.

If it is just to cut costs on maintaining currency on your JAR ratings, I don't think it will work, it might be more expensive (one extra license to maintain).

If you plan to stay in JAR land and intend to fly those 3 types you are rated on, in JAR aircraft, I don't believe having an FAA ticket will give you any benefit.