Would you put PPL on your CV??

[sheesh123]

Just wondering do people put PPL on their CV or would you?

[Sleeve Wing]

Sure. Why not ?

[Shunter]

I did. Apparently it gave an impression of "responsibility and diversity of skill".

[gcolyer]

I have. I personaly put all nationaly or international recognised qualifications on my CV. It also strengthens your "hobbies and about me" section of your CV.

PPL on your CV demonstrates your ability of confidence, indapendance, trustworthyness, thouroughness and dedication.

I will imagine you will get 2 types of response to this question.

1) along the lines of my response
2) Nay sayers and the "do you wear wings and epaluetts when flying" brigade.

[Whirlygig]

I don't. I don't put any hobbies or personal interests on my CV. Chartered Accountants do not have interesting lives and nor are they expected to do so.

Cheers

Whirls

[gcolyer]

I wonder how many other people dont put hobbies or personal pursuits on their CV's?

I have been told not by many recruiters/agencies in the past. But I choose to ignore them. It has never done me any harm and at times it has made a conversation point in the interview where you can get in to your comfort zone and the employer gets to see who you really are.

[PompeyPaul]

First thing I do when looking at a CV. Check out the academic history then check out hobbies and interests.

Anybody who worked for McDonalds, Burger King etc is out
Anybody without an outstanding academic record is out
Anybody without hobbies or interests is out (that includes numpties that write as a hobby \ interest "going to the pub and socialising with friends". Like having a pint down the pub is hard or takes any sort of dedication).

PPL is excellent to have on the CV (presuming you are going for a non-flying job). It shows dedication, ability and that you can stick to something.

[shortstripper]

I did, and apparently it got me the job! Nothing special really. I'm a farm manager, but at the time (unlike now) we were two a penny (farm managers that is). The boss's (bosses?) dad, thought it meant I was more likely to be able to think on my feet rather than to keep bugging them for advice???? ...................................... as if! :rolleyes: lol

SS

[niknak]

Definately YES!

You worked bloody hard to get it and should be proud of letting other people know that you have the commitment which is required to reach that level of achievement.

Ignore "recruiters/agency" they haven't a clue and are generally only used by employers who dont know who they really want for the job, or, more to the point, don't know how to run their own business so they pay someone else 30% of the salary to do it for them.

[SkyHawk-N]

Anybody without an outstanding academic record is out
Are you serious PompeyPaul????? :eek: Some of the most USELESS people I have worked with have been good academics, doesn't mean they have common sense and the ability to think for themselves. If someone applied to me for a job who had not done so well at school/college/university but could demonstrate good PRACTICAL experience since, they would get my vote.
Anybody who worked for McDonalds, Burger King etc is out
Based on just that? :rolleyes:
Check out the academic history then check out hobbies and interests
I value EXPERIENCE, don't you?

[Dr Jekyll]

Anybody without hobbies or interests is out
Why? Surely this means they can be more dedicated to the job?

[digital.poet]

PompeyPaul,

Your recruiting style will eliminate lots of very high quality applicants, but it is the 'safe' option. I would not pass your test (but then neither would Bill Gates or Richard Branson, so I am in good company). However, the nice thing about this kind of thing is that (and I say this with respect, I am sure you are nice guy personally) people who would not want me to work for them for these reasons will likely not be the kind of people I would want to work for. So it is a win/win.

To answer the original question, yes! Absolutely include it. I intend to when I qualify.

When I have interviewed people for positions, I often get many CVs that are all very similar in quality, and with limited interview slots I have to make a descision based on something. When confronted with two applicants of similar skills and backgrounds, and with one interview slot to fill, I would choose the one who had something on their CV that could give me an 'entry' point in talking with them. An interview is as much about finding out a about a person's character, as it is their skills. A PPL qualification would be a 'loose thread' that I could pull on to get the person talking about their life, drives, ambitions and interests. With some applicants, this can be difficult. It is easier to talk to an applicant who has something really interesting on their CV, this can be in their education, work history, or personal endevours.

[Saab Dastard]

I don't put any hobbies or personal interests on my CV. Chartered Accountants do not have interesting lives

Whirlygig, nice one! :ok:

Please ensure that all your posts are, in future, in an appropriate shade of grey! :}

SD

[gcolyer]

Must admit Pompey you just done yourself a wrong un.

I have friends that spent years getting degrees and cant get a decent job. I was total **** at school, and joined the army at 15 and 8 months.

Now I am a consultant to the likes of SAP, Ericsson, HP, Symantec and have been since I left the army in 1996.

My acedemics certainly did not get me to where I am now. What has got me to where I am is my work ethics and dedication to do the best I can every single day that I work.

As for your Mcdonalds example I think that is a bit insulting. Infact one of my mates that spent years getting a degree is now a Mcdonalds store manager..the reason being????? no real world experience in his field.

[Codger]

"Anybody without an outstanding academic record is out"


Can be absolutely meaningless. Or is the ability to cheat without getting caught a skill that you are after? I've found over the past 10 years that the odds are 50/50 on the grades being legitimate.

As to the PPL being noted on a CV. Yes.

[jonkil]

Anybody without an outstanding academic record is out
That makes a ball of Sense !!
Most successful self made businessmen never ever have a strong academic record. If your that busy learning then your too bloody busy to make money !

[Julian]

"Anybody without an outstanding academic record is out"

Hahahahahaha!!!! I have to agree with Codger on this one.

I get quite a few of the Grads on the companys 'Management Training Course' for a couple of weeks to see what my depmartment does and to be honest a good 50% plus of them, and I am talking about Grads with 1st and 2nds here, are completely useless and lost! I lot cannot take direction and if you give them something out of the ordinary which isnt in a textbook they go to pieces!

Consequently now when I am vetting CVs for interviews I look at previous experience or even someone who hasnt necessarily got brilliant grades but has been through an apprenticship and made it out of the other side.

Oh in answer to the question...Yes put it down, it shows you have a brain and can handle something thats pretty responsible.

J.

[PompeyPaul]

Hey,

We can argue the in's and out's but one thing is for sure. Everybody rates hobbies and interests. Put the PPL on your CV it may just give you the edge.

In my job I've got a 100% hit rate. I've never recruited anybody that's not been exceptional and that's what I need. Other places may be more lapse \ understanding etc. That's just what rules I ruthlessly apply.

[BEagle]

Recruiting - such fun....

Q. You are the Recruitment Manager responsible to the Chief Executive Officer for the selection of applicants to work as Flight Attendants for your airline.

There are 3 candidates, all aged 22:

Candidate A has worked as a childrens’ nanny and has 6 ‘O’ levels. She also speaks some conversational French.

Candidate B left school with 4 GCSEs; after a gap year back-packing in the Far East she later qualified as a nurse.

Candidate C left school at 16, then worked in a department store as a junior and now works as a customer service team manager for the same store.


In 400 words or less, state which of the 3 would you select and provide your reasons.

[SkyHawk-N]

In my job I've got a 100% hit rate. I've never recruited anybody that's not been exceptional and that's what I need. Other places may be more lapse \ understanding etc. That's just what rules I ruthlessly apply.

:}


Forgot to answer the original question, yep put it on the CV, it provides a lot of information about your capabilities and potential.

[SkyHawk-N]

In 400 words or less, state which of the 3 would you select and provide your reasons.

C.

A. 'O' Levels? long time ago? 22?
B. ?
C. Customer focused work, stable, worked their way up, in charge of others.

Probably way off.

[MSP Aviation]

Most successful self made businessmen never ever have a strong academic record.

But do they make good EMPLOYEES? :)

Re. the original question, put it on your CV for sure. Unless you're applying for a flying job (they might expect a CPL...)

[Whirlygig]

I'd go for the candidates with 6 O Levels; after all, aren't they like A Levels now? :}

When I've recruited, I've looked at qualifications and experience which are presented to me in the form of a neat, concise CV with correct grammar and spelling. Those are the ones I will interview. Then, I find out about the person during a one to one.

Cheers

Whirls


'Ang on - just spotted BEag's rider - all aged 22. Not quite sure how a 22 year old gets O Levels these days! So therefore I wouldn't choose A as she's lied on her CV and done so with little background knowledge and intelligence!!!

[B2N2]

C.

A is boring, probably good with difficult pax though..
B is still trying to find something that might be suiatble in life.
C stepped out on their own and managed to make it and is clearly ambitious,
customer service team manager is always good.




And almost forgot, yes put your PPL on your CV, it shows diversity and a challenging hobby. It means you don't shy away from difficult decision scenario's even on your day off.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I wonder how many other people dont put hobbies or personal pursuits on their CV's?I don't.

But I do put the PPL on, as a qualification/skill, not as a hobby, in the section where you list the languages you can speak.

[stickandrudderman]

I've never written a CV, and haven't applied for a job since I was 15 so I can't really speak from experience.
I do however employ people and would certainly look favourably on a candidate who listed flying as one of their hobbies.

As for this:

Q. You are the Recruitment Manager responsible to the Chief Executive Officer for the selection of applicants to work as Flight Attendants for your airline.

There are 3 candidates, all aged 22:

Candidate A has worked as a childrens’ nanny and has 6 ‘O’ levels. She also speaks some conversational French.

Candidate B left school with 4 GCSEs; after a gap year back-packing in the Far East she later qualified as a nurse.

Candidate C left school at 16, then worked in a department store as a junior and now works as a customer service team manager for the same store.


In 400 words or less, state which of the 3 would you select and provide your reasons.

I'd just employ the one with the biggest tits!

[BEagle]

.....is the text book answer :D!!

[HeliCraig]

I'd just employ the one with the biggest tits!


Pure genius. I am sure the PC brigade will hate it, but it made me laugh!!

Me too, although I might settle for a nice bottom too!

Oh, and yes I would put my PPL(H) on my CV - shows any number of qualities which I regard as positive - and I can't think of a negative quality it could portray (unless accompanied with "until I can get a CPL/ATPL and disappear off for a flying career!").

[FREDAcheck]

Put PPL on a CV? Yes, but don't otherwise mention it unless asked. Pilots tend to think flying is much more important than anyone else does. See the "Biggles, you’re a crashing bore........." thread. Clarkson is not alone. Eg:
How do you know you're half way through your first date with a pilot? He says: "Enough about me, let's talk about flying".

Or:
Never bother to ask someone if they're a pilot; if they are, they'll soon tell you.
Incredible as it may seem to us pilots, flying is a bit of a bore to most of the human race.

[EvilKitty]

digital.poet said:
I intend to when I qualify.

Why wait? Put it on now - it shows the same qualities now as it will when you qualify (time management, decision making, dedication, etc., etc.).

[FREDAcheck]

G-EMMA said:FREDAcheck, strangely I don't find that people find it boring.
and I said:
...flying is a bit of a bore to most of the human race.
Quite right: I exagerated. Perhaps we can agree that some people, including Mr Clarkson, find it a bit boring? Flying requires persistance and a degree of dedication. That's good on a CV. But the necessary degree of dedication can make some pilots seem a bit boring to those that don't happen to be interested. When I'm interviewing, I prefer someone with a well-rounded set of interests, rather than someone who seems dominated by one particular interest.

[englishal]

Of course you should put it on the CV in the "interests and activities" section....you never know, the interviewer may be a pilot and it may prove to be a useful talking point so long as you don't take up the attitude "I'm the best pilot around, I know everything" and come across as an arrogant t*at.

Thank god I work in an industry where experience is everything - despite having a degree in Electronic Communication Engineering, I have NEVER had to show it once......Come to think if it, I wonder where I left it....:}

Paul, I won't be applying to your company, you couldn't pay me enough to work somewhere which treats people like that ;) I probably wouldn't get the job either, as I worked at B&Q for a while as a student :hmm:

[Slopey]

Absolutely put it on!!!!!

I've lost count of the CVs which have come across my desk with interests listed as;

"I enjoy going to the cinema, playing football and socialising with friends"

DOH! Yeah - who doesn't!

At least if you have something other than the above there's a topic for the interviewer to form a question around. Very handy (for the interviewer, and for your job prospects!)

(and I won't employ anyone without at least a B in standard grade English (it's our language and candidates should be able to speak/write it!) and Maths (or preferrably a few decent "Highers" but I am North of the border and we don't have the narrow focused A level nonscence up here- but that's hardly to PP's high standard!) ;)

[kookabat]

Anybody who worked for McDonalds, Burger King etc is out

At least those people (and yes, I was one of them for far too long) was working rather than dole bludging. Or filching off their parents. Living away from home while studying, and thus needing to work to survive, shows dedication I think. I may not have earned the highest grades but I came out of uni with more than just book smarts.

As for the original question - I think there was another poster who said not in hobbies and interests - but in skills. I'd agree. Admittedly I work in an aviation job so it's perhaps more appropriate there.

[er340790]

Here is a hosepipe and here is a golfball.

The first one of you to suck the golfball through the hosepipe gets the job!:E

[High Wing Drifter]

I had one interview where, somehow or other (worked for an aeronautics firm), the subject got on to private flying. He was amazed I hadn't put it on my CV. Personally, I find it a bit cringesome for some reason.

I concur with previous comments about academic background and McDonalds. The chap is almost certainly missing out on the most able, capable and productive people of all. As somebody with virtually no qualifications I would say that wouldn't I :8 But then, people try to recruit people like themselves.

[Whirlybird]

There is no specific answer to this...or to a question about anything else you should or shouldn't put on your CV. Every CV you send out should be tailored individually for the specific company/individual you're sending it to. What is the job? Should you emphasise your many-moons-ago academic record (if you've just found out that PompeyPaul is the recruiter, you know the answer ;)) or will that make you appear over-qualified, when what the job needs is practical and/or people skills? Is your recent work record more important? Will your PPL make you appear intelligent and skillful and all that good stuff...or simply confuse a recruiter who probably has no idea what it is? Find out EVERYTHING you can about the company/individual and adapt your CV accordingly.

But in general, received wisdom is to put down a couple of interests and hobbies to prove that you're well-rounded and interesting, but not so many that recruiters think you won't have time for any work! And "I have a PPL and fly light aircraft occasionally when time permits" puts across more positive points than negative, on the whole.

But where CVs are concerned, there are few hard and fast rules as to content, unless you know the person who'll be reading it...or you're psychic. :(

I used to work in this area...if anyone actually cares.

[PompeyPaul]

Should you emphasise your many-moons-ago academic record (if you've just found out that PompeyPaul is the recruiter, you know the answer ;)) or will that make you appear over-qualified
Precisely! it's an open ended question and you tailor your CV to the job or industry that you are going for.

It's not just me that will look for a strong academic background. Anybody recruiting in the software development \ research fields will generally require strong academia. If you are going for a part time job at Tescos then that PHD is probably not quite so important...

The only common thing is that hobbies and interests are incredibly important to almost every recruiter I know.

It is amazing though, how many people on a flying forum want to give me recruitment advice without even knowing the sort of people I recruit, or the industry that I'm in!

[slim_slag]

Just wondering do people put PPL on their CV or would you?Some do, some don't, have never seen it myself. If I did see it in my line of work, I would ignore it, probably. Only put on your CV the information you think will help you get the job.

Strangest thing I ever saw on a CV was 'experience in battle field interdiction'. Not sure how he thought that would help him get a responsible job in a civilian hospital. And it didn't.

As you get on in life a CV becomes pretty irrelevant anyway. Often used so HR can tick their box, the job has been offered a long time before a CV gets printed. Earlier on in a career when you are struggling for things to say, I suppose it could make you more interesting than others who are also struggling for things to say.

[rusty sparrow]

Between contracts at the moment and too many poor agencies out there. So if anyone's looking for a PPL who's an ex engineer and specialises in process improvement, please pm me.:)

[High Wing Drifter]

Paul,
It's not just me that will look for a strong academic background. Anybody recruiting in the software development \ research fields will generally require strong academia. If you are going for a part time job at Tescos then that PHD is probably not quite so important... Risk of being a tad too OT but...not so. I've worked (and still do) for a variety of the largest IT and defence contractors in the world, not just the UK, as a developer, architect and consultant (all as a permie). I don't even have a Maths 'O' Level, although I have attained chartered status through the experience route! Most of my peers have degrees and doctorates but I am not alone.

However, the financial institutions are possibly more concerned about what degree you have and what university you went too. A completely misplaced concern IMHO.

I've not been to a single interview where I was asked my hobbies, neither am I interested when hiring. Track record and experience are all I'm interested in on a CV :)

[IO540]

Beagle

I would employ the one with the best figure but who is just bright enough to do the job,.

That's what Richard Branson does, with only the occassional lapse, and he wouldn't get a job working for anybody else if he tried.

And if there are multiple candidates even then I would pick the one who is older so more mature and less likely to get pregnant.

Nowadays, airline travel is deadly tedious and frustrating, with so many people on the verge of giving up altogether if only they had the option. Anything to differentiate one's service!

[PompeyPaul]

HighWingDrifter:
Anybody recruiting in the software development \ research fields will [b]generally[b] require strong academia
I'm not saying that in every case every time, garaunteed. With so many jobs and so many people it's a guiding principle. Out of 150 odd software developers, 95% are educated to at least degree level.

There are some that come through other routes, there are some that are great at their job, their are some that suck.

Still the common theme is, most IT look for a degree, and most of the people I know that recruit in IT also look for hobbies and interests.

That's not to say though, every single person who ever did an interview looked for precisely the same skills!

I guess if we all liked the same thing, and all wanted the sme thing, we'd all get killed in the stampede!

[Wessex Boy]

I've always had it on my CV, in the early years it gives the interviewer something to talk about, now it often leads to the 'off the record' chats after an interview, that is when you leave the final impression...got me my current contract!:ok:

[Saab Dastard]

Would you employ someone who couldn't spell guaranteed correctly?

yes I'm definately planning on putting PPL on my CV.

Pot - kettle - black?

Since we are on the subject, actually not as bad as gcolyer in post #4:

I personaly put all nationaly or international recognised qualifications on my CV. It also strengthens your "hobbies and about me" section of your CV.

PPL on your CV demonstrates your ability of confidence, indapendance, trustworthyness, thouroughness and dedication.

I will imagine you will get 2 types of response to this question.

1) along the lines of my response
2) Nay sayers and the "do you wear wings and epaluetts when flying" brigade.

I particularly enjoyed "thouroughness" - under the circumstances! :D

SD

[PompeyPaul]

Software R&D - Rigid Body Simulations, Neural Networks that sort of thing...

Although maybe this is drifting slightly OT ?

[gcolyer]

I particularly enjoyed "thouroughness" - under the circumstances! :D

SD


Git:bored:

Thank god there is not a CAA spelling test.

[Saab Dastard]

Git

gcolyer, don't be too hard on yourself - we're not all natural born spellers.

SD

[SkyHawk-N]

most IT look for a degree
PompeyPaul, I totally disagree and I work as a contractor in very large computer development teams for financial, insurance and banking blue chips. It maybe the case in smaller companies, with say 150 programmers ;) If a company needs an effective C#/Java/SQL/whatever developer they aren't going to base their decision on whether the guy has a degree (even one in computers including experience in programming assembler, ada or pascal :rolleyes:), or whether the guy likes to sail at the weekend. Remind me never to work for your company, and yes I do have a degree. :ok:

[Blues&twos]

I work in software development. I have a degree. I fly for fun when I can afford it. And I sail at the weekend.

Does this make me
a) eminently employable, or
b) a hopeless case destined for cardboard city?

:confused:

[stickandrudderman]

If you fly and sail you might recognise this:
If I find myself flying over the solent looking down at the yachts I can't help thinking, "I wish I was down there", and then when I'm on a yacht looking up at a light aircraft I can't help thinking, "I wish I was up there!"

I also happen to have some race car experience so the same Dilemma applies over Silverstone!

As you can imagine, it puzzles me when some people win the lottery and their lives don't change much!
I could spend the lot in no time!

In fact, this is such a serios thread drift that I think I'd better go off and start a new thread with it.

I'll call it the "No longer a thread drift thread".

[Tim Dawson]

Software development is one of the areas where academic qualifications are often not held, or are poorly held, by some of the best candidates. I spent a few years interviewing candidates for software development positions, at the time being in a senior such position myself. Qualifications meant nothing to me, the experience and passion of the candidates was far more than important.

There are some industries where the kind of person you want will often not be traditionally academically minded. Those kids who stayed in their parents basements perfecting their hobby programs instead of studying in history class and going to uni? They can probably out-code most graduates, and with only a little moulding will accelerate way past them in no time in the workplace.

[FREDAcheck]

Thank god there is not a CAA spelling test
Too right, or most pilots would be grounded. But who needs to spell when flying? However, people I recruit need to write reports that influence people, and good use of English is a must. PPL on the CV is a plus, as it means there'll be something else to chat about if I recruit the person. As others have said, skills directly related to the task are what count most. Hobbies and interests might be tie-breakers with two otherwise equal candidates.

Funny that there's a strong division between those that rate academic qualifications as important, and those that rate them virtually insignificant. Could it be that we tend to rate our own backgrounds and qualifications as the relevant ones for the job?

[kiwi chick]

I absolutely couldn't agree more - put it on your CV. :ok:

It shows that you have some attributes that might not be clear or apparant from any other work history or information on your CV, and it is always a good ice breaker at an interview. IMHO most people I have met find it interesting, and something a little different.

It's always got me jobs in the past 'cos I have no other skills. ;)

[PompeyPaul]

Yeah I deleted it whilst you must have still been writing a reply. I thought it was probably more useful to discuss flying on a flying website than having long drawn out discussions about IT recrutiment.

[liteboy]

As someone who often has to read CV's, I would definitely put down ppl. Anything is better than reading, swimming, socialising, etc.
It will make you stand out and you will have a good chance of being interviewed out of curiosity if nothing else, it also shows a level of responsibility and an ability to learn what is to most people, harder than passing your driving test.
As to academic qualifications, I hava standard question I ask most prospective employees with a degree:
Why did you do your degree?

Get the usual answers, employment prospects, qualifications, etc.

I have yet to have someone give what I believe would be a good answer: TO GET AN EDUCATION!

[mattkcraven]

I put down my PPL on an application for an engineering placement year away from uni, and spent the whole interview discussing flying in california with the interviewer......nice and easy......and naturally got the job (which was v hotly contested by over 100 students). :} Just had to answer the question "so any thoughts on flying commercially in the future?" sensibly enough.

Naturally also ended up hating my time there, but thats another story, experience all the same!!!

Anyway, back at uni now and into the easy life once again.

p.s. studying aeronautical engineering before I get any flack Hooloovoo, haha, a bit useful than the all time great course of "wildlife conservation"

[Whirlygig]

Interesting to note that there are very few voices of dissent; however, I'm still not putting any hobbies or interests on my CV!

I think age and experience make a difference; if you're fresh from college or have not had many jobs, a PPL may be a factor in making your CV stand out from the others. However, once you get to a certain level, managers initially look for experience and qualification ( in the broadest sense), not hobbies. Honestly.

If I apply for a job as Finance Director, all the board are interested in is my previous experience (the qualification is a given). If I get to second interview stage, then interests may be the sort of thing to talk about.

A CV sould be no more than 2 sides of neatly typed A4; when you are of a certain age, there's no need for padding!!!

Cheers

Whirls

[S-Works]

I have stayed quiet thus far....

However as a person that owns a recruitment agency and one that does a considerable amount of recruiting for projects I have only one word... SADDO.

What are you thinking, what next, I like to kill fluffy animals with a shot gun, I base jump, I like to boogy to acid music (or whatever they call it), I fly kites (I do actually kite surf...).

A PPL does nothing towards you recruitment prospects, putting it on your CV just makes you out as a nerd. I assume wearing gold bars on the epaulettes to the interview or a flying suit will help further?

[IRRenewal]

PPL on your CV demonstrates your ability of confidence, indapendance, trustworthyness, thouroughness and dedication.

I thought it was probably more useful to discuss flying on a flying website than having long drawn out discussions about IT recrutiment.

I guess those IT recruiters also chuck out any CV with spulling erors.

Winkers.

[gcolyer]

I told you there will be an epaulette basher here!!:eek:

At the end of the day it is horses for courses. As a contractor I have been through more agencies than I care to shake a stick at. And I have only ever come across 1 that gave sound advice about CV's.

I have had 2 interviews where the interview got as far as qualifications and stopped at the PPL and became a chit chat about flying....I got both contracts.

All my other interviews just glossed over qualifications. And I have only ever once in 17 years been asked for proof of qualifications, and I have had many contracts that have asked for degree's but hired me instead based on experience.

There is absolutley no harm in putting it on your CV.

[S-Works]

You started contracting before you left school?

I like you already, you are hired......

[Whirlygig]

The harm is jealousy and perceived wealth. MOST people regard flying (especially helicopters) as being very expensive (without realising the sacrifices that may have been made) and hence there are not many people who want to recruit someone who is possibly more well-off than themselves.

Obviously, I come from a finance background and not IT, where attitudes may well be different, but I speak from experience!

Cheers

Whirls

[gcolyer]

I left school at 15 and 8 months and joined the Army...which in 1990 was the youngest age you could join. In November 1996 i left the army and started contracting.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

A CV sould be no more than 2 sides of neatly typed A4
Coo! Dinosaur age still alive and well, is it? - my "CV" has been a web site for at least a decade.

However as a person that owns a recruitment agency and one that does a considerable amount of recruiting for projects I have only one word... SADDO.
Yes, well, all you've done is add just one more reason to the many why I don't deal with business prevention agencies if I can possibly avoid it.

Agencies: Just Say No!

[S-Works]

Hmmm, you might actually have a point their Gertrude.... :O

[Whirlygig]

Gertrude, all I can say is, is that you've never REALLY recruited accountants have you! Traditional methods ARE very much well alive and in practice. If MY CV was on a website, I'd never get a job!:rolleyes:

Cheers

Whirls

[Gertrude the Wombat]

you've never REALLY recruited accountants have you!
No, just techies, let's be honest here!

[kiwi chick]

Anyway, back at uni now and into the easy life once again.

I think this might be why so many people go to Uni.

Why work?! :ok:

(ooh just realised I might have the wrong thread...)

[Lance Murdoch]

The short answer to the question is that some employers are interested in your hobbies and interests and others arent. Positions which need a rounded induividual are more likely to take into account yourr interests than ones which require only technical skill.

In my current job which does require a fairly rounded skill set, although not mentioned in interview, I got the impression that after starting the job that having a PPL was an advantage.

As a previous poster stated many people still think that flying is for the rich elite and mentioning that you have a PPL can cause some people to be jealous. Managers which have this attitude are not worth working for.

[kiwi chick]

Summed up best by my previous manager at the Police College, who was a Behavioural Psychologist. :}

The day I passed my CPL (A) he said to me:

"I associate a Commercial Pilot with someone who has integrity, intelligence, fortitude and commitment, not to mention common sense. And that is true for the person standing in front of me right now. Congratulations".

I didn't have the heart to tell him that most of us are filthly mongrels who swear and drink too much. ;)

[FREDAcheck]

I don’t think there’s much harm in putting PPL on a CV provided it’s only one of several hobbies, and it doesn’t look like it dominates your life. The danger is appearing like a nerd. Jeremy Clarkson is not alone: any hobby that requires lots of specialist knowledge and persistence can look a bit nerdish to outsiders, especially if it’s also a bit exclusive (you can’t do it without a licence, and you have to jump through lots of hoops to get one). The “Biggles speak” used on the radio adds to the image.

I'll bet most of us have heard friends suggesting flying can be a bit nerdish. Unless of course:

You've never asked your friends
You never listen to your friends
Your friends aren't honest
All your friends are pilots
You don't have any friends

Over and out.

[eharding]

I have stayed quiet thus far....

However as a person that owns a recruitment agency and one that does a considerable amount of recruiting for projects I have only one word... SADDO.

What are you thinking, what next, I like to kill fluffy animals with a shot gun, I base jump, I like to boogy to acid music (or whatever they call it), I fly kites (I do actually kite surf...).

A PPL does nothing towards you recruitment prospects, putting it on your CV just makes you out as a nerd. I assume wearing gold bars on the epaulettes to the interview or a flying suit will help further?


Interesting. Having been on both sides of the fence dealing with recruitment agencies, I would say that that such agencies are far more deserving of gassing than any badger with a hacking cough....and that little glimpse into the mindset of a proprietor doesn't do anything to shift my opinion.

[S-Works]

I am not a proprietor, just an owner, don't have anything to do with the day to day running. It interferes with my social life.

I do have to agree with you though, they are totally shocking, I only bought this one as I was hacked off with the 20% margin they were making for doing squat all and wanted it instead!!

:O

[Slopey]

Well, I've been on the board of a large recrutiment agency for the last 10 years, so here's my 2p

Writing a CV for agencies to punt about and applying for a position direct to the hiring company are two different things.

Companies who use agencies, by and large (certainly in our sector) have 4 or 5 (or more!) agencies responding to the same requirements - they are well versed in contract/staff hiring and the beleagured hiring manager wants someone with the relevant experience to do the job - everything else is secondary. If the candidate is a tool (personality or skills wise) they'll be quickly bumped and replaced. Highly competitive, high speed - get the guy on who's CV says the right thing.

Now, if you're applying to a company directly (usually a smaller company who doesn't want to pay agency markups or finders fees), then that's a different consideration.

Agency CVs are no-nonsense - they'll edit your CV to remove all the guff, highlight the relevant quals and experience for ease of use by the client, and reformat it into a standard format (at least we do anyway). Goodbye interests etc - if the client thinks these are important, it's an interview question. To be honest - the main ones are: do you play golf, which football team do you support, and who do you know on this project. Job done.

Personal CVs for smaller companies who are looking for someone to join the team rather than a fill the slot for a contractor or staffie, should (in my opinion) list interests - and a PPL on it won't do you any harm. By and large, the CV review is done by the manager who doesn't have much hiring or agency experience, and recruits on "do they look right" as opposed to "tick the boxes, quick check to make sure you're not a weirdo, and lets screw you on the rate".

Ultimately - it's usually unlikely an agency will even read your CV before it's reformatted for submission. It's virtually always converted to txt or RTF if you've given it in some odd format - and chucked in their CV database for word searching. You match the words, you come up on the recruiter's screen - that's the bread and butter. And NOBODY searches for PPL.

So hell - put it on. The Agency will remove it and any other crap if it's irrelevant, but always have something on there for non agency hiring where it'll make you at least stand out a bit.

[Wessex Boy]

Slopey, That's all well in good in the great morass where people are just looking for skilled bums on seats, but once you get to a more senior level the (good) agencies start to treat you as an individual again, and the roles that you are going for have a greater emphasis on the soft skills and personality.
I balance the nerdiness of the PPL on my CV with the mention of my awfully bad electric guitar playing, interviewers will normally pick up and discuss at least one of them!

[Slopey]

Exactly right.

Executive Search is entirely different from the day to day agency bums on seats stuff. Which is why I'd say stick it on anyway.

Once you get above a certain organisational level, agency recruitment methodology totally changes - mostly because of the much larger finders fee!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Agency CVs are no-nonsense - they'll edit your CV to remove all the guff, highlight the relevant quals and experience for ease of use by the client, and reformat it into a standard format (at least we do anyway)
... thereby throwing away the formatting that is a deliberate part of your sales pitch ("yes I can produce decent documentation") and more often than not adding spelling and grammatical errors that weren't in your original, thus ensuring that the recruiter bins your CV unread.

Business prevention agencies: Just Say No.

(When hiring I routinely bin CVs with spelling errors. Where these have obviously been reformatted by the agency - whom you would expect to correct any errors in the original, not add new ones of their own! - I have sometimes felt a fleeting sympathy for the applicant. But only fleeting, because if they were any good they wouldn't have chosen an agent who was going to mangle their CV.)

[Slopey]

Well, at least my lot ensure the spelling is correct - all QA'd up and all that :)
There are an awful lot of bad agencies out there, but there are some good ones too ;)

And there's a reason we reformat them - the clients want them that way believe it or not - they complain when they've been sent unformatted ones (which is just as well as it means one of our recruiters has been bypassing the quality procedures!).

[Gertrude the Wombat]

And there's a reason we reformat them - the clients want them that way believe it or not
I don't. I want to see the candidate's own work - that tells me something, whereas the professionally produced CV (with or without spelling errors) tells me much less about the candidate; it might tell me something about the agency, but I'm not considering employing them.

[Slopey]

Each to their own...

[High Wing Drifter]

Tend to agree. The way a CV is constructed often says more about a chap/chapesse than mere skills and contrived interests in cool hobbies :hmm:

[stickandrudderman]

So, does the one with the big tits get the job then?:E

[Kengineer-130]

Slopey wrote....

Absolutely put it on!!!!!

I've lost count of the CVs which have come across my desk with interests listed as;

"I enjoy going to the cinema, playing football and socialising with friends"

DOH! Yeah - who doesn't!

At least if you have something other than the above there's a topic for the interviewer to form a question around. Very handy (for the interviewer, and for your job prospects!)

(and I won't employ anyone without at least a B in standard grade English (it's our language and candidates should be able to speak/write it!) and Maths (or preferrably a few decent "Highers" but I am North of the border and we don't have the narrow focused A level nonscence up here- but that's hardly to PP's high standard!)



:} and I won't employ anyone without at least a B in standard grade English (it's our language and candidates should be able to speak/write it!)

:}don't have the narrow focused A level nonscence up here.

Oh the Irony :{:{:{;)

How you doing dunx? :ok:

[kiwi chick]

Funny you should say that... I got this this morning:

Resimay


To hoom it mae cunsern,

I waunt to apply for the offiser job what I saw in the paper. I can Type real quik wit one finggar and do sum a counting.

I think I am good on the phone and no I am a pepole person, Pepole really seam to respond to me well. Certain men and all the ladies.

Im lookin for a Jobb as a offiser but it musent be to complicaited.

I no my spelling is not to good but find that I Offen can get a job thru my persinalety. My salerery is open so we can discus wat you want to pay me and wat you think that I am werth,

I can start imeditely. Thank you in advanse fore yore anser.

hopifuly Yore best aplicant so farr.

Sinseerly,

BRYAN nikname Beefy

PS : Because my resimay is a bit short - below is a pickture of me.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x105/kiwiflygirl/beefy.jpg







Employer's response:.....

Dear Beefy-I mean Bryan,

It's OK honey, we've got spell check. You're hired.

[High Wing Drifter]

So, does the one with the big tits get the job then?Indeed. It's like 'Carry On Aye Carrumba!' here.

[Slopey]

" nonscence "

Whoops! In my defence it was a PDA I was tapping on. Doh!

Keng - Spills or ack? Pm me ;)

[gcolyer]

" nonscence "

Whoops! In my defence it was a PDA I was tapping on. Doh!

Keng - Spills or ack? Pm me ;)


Poor workman always blames his tools:ok:

Me..I am just crap at spelling.

[IO540]

deleted... duplicate

[IO540]

Decades ago, people were smaller and thinner, and decent tits were rare, so the one with the biggest tits would get the job.

Nowadays, there is so much gross obesity around that the one with the biggest tits will have them touching the floor and she is likely to develop serious back problems :)

I interviewed one the other day. Poor woman could hardly walk.

Nowadays, in the UK, it would be the one with the smallest tits that would get the job!

[stickandrudderman]

A good but sad point!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

So, does the one with the big tits get the job then?:E
Seriously though, if I'm short of a team earth mother then that's whom I'll hire, but the size of the tits don't usually have anything to do with it.

[Wessex Boy]

Did a telephone interview yesterday and the interviewer asked me if I was a 'What if' thinker...
I started giving a business example and thought 'sod it' and said that as a Private Pilot I have to constantly think about the 'what ifs' without it being of detriment to my ongoing performance.....:E