MEPL-only licence issues

[hugh flung_dung]

The situation:

A chap currently has an NPPL
He has many thousands of MEP hours as an RAF pilot in the 50s and 60s
He's just passed his class 2 JAR medical
He wants to get a JAR licence issued with only an MEPL rating


From my reading of LASORS, if he wanted to change from an NPPL to a JAR PPL with an SEPL he would need 20 hours instruction from a JAR FI but if he wants to train for an MEPL he only needs to have 70 hours total and to have completed the MEPL course (6 flight + 7 ground) and the LST.
Is this right?

HFD

[BEagle]

No he does not need an additional 20 hours of instruction from a FI authorised under JAR-FCL. He needs to have achieved a total of 20 such hours, so whatever instruction he received from a JAR-FCL FI towards his NPPL will count. For example, if your colleague had obtained his SSEA Class Rating by conversion from some other licence and had received only a handful of hours with a JAR-FCL FI, then he would need to make up the difference before he could be issued with a JAR-FCL PPL(A) with SEP Class Rating.

Rating to an existing JAR-FCL PPL(A) requires the training and testing you refer to; however, if he intends to open a JAR-FCL PPL(A) with MEP Class Rating without having first upgraded from NPPL with SSEA Class Rating, he would probably have to meet all the NPPL-to-PPL upgrade requirements on an MEP Class aeroplane - he would need to speak to the Authority to confirm this.

Simplest process is probably to meet the upgrade requirements for NPPL with SSEA Class Rating to JAR-FCL PPL(A) with SEP Class Rating first, then complete the MEP Class Rating training, then apply for JAR-FCL PPL(A) with both SEP Class Rating and MEP Class Rating - unless, that is, the Authority require him to be physically in possession of a JAR-FCL PPL(A) with SEP Class Rating before he can add the MEP Class Rating.

[hugh flung_dung]

Thanks BEagle, that ties-up with my understanding (I omitted the word "total" when mentioning JAR FI hours). I advised him to speak directly to licensing because of his unusual situation but he hasn't yet done so.

Because of his range of experience (5-10 thousand hours as a QSP on a range of types including Hastings, Anson, Varsity, Valetta, Meteor, DC3, etc, etc.) and recently demonstrated skill I'm hoping that they will allow him to complete sufficient of the MEP course to "reach standard" and then to take the test; this will probably take his total hours with a JAR FI to around 10 - insisting on more in the interests of bureaucracy would be an expensive nonsense in this case. Hopefully our Gatwickian colleagues will see sense.

HFD

[BEagle]

Sorry, but the CAA's hands are undoubtedly tied by the JAR-FCL stipulations.

How did he obtain an NPPL (SSEA) with such low FI time? Or had he held a UK PPL sometime in the dim and distant?

Personally, I feel that since he hasn't flown any MEP aeroplane for nigh on 38 years, it would be a less than clever idea to skip on any of the training and testing requirements as laid down. They're very reasonable.

[Jumbo Driver]

BEagle,

How did he obtain an NPPL (SSEA) with such low FI time? Or had he held a UK PPL sometime in the dim and distant?

The answer is here (http://www.nppl.uk.com/documents/NPPLXCREV064.pdf), on page 6:

QSPs with previous flying experience in SEP aeroplanes who do not meet these requirements will be
credited as follows:

c. If they have not been current in military aircraft in the previous 10 years, they shall be required to
complete the training consolidation and testing requirements specified for holders of expired licences
and ratings.

and on page 7:

c. Where a SEP class rating included in such licences has expired by more than 10 years, the licence
holder shall undergo a course of instruction in a single-engine piston aeroplane as specified by a SEP FI
or CRI(SPA) which must include:
(1) 2 hours of stall awareness/spin avoidance training;
(2) 4 hours solo general handling exercises;
(3) 4 hours solo cross-country flying, including the NPPL qualifying cross-country flight.


hugh flung_dung

You have a pm


JD
:)

[Whopity]

Meet the following requirements:

have passed the JAA PPL written examinations
have completed a 150nm X-country
have received 25 hours dual instruction - may include the 6 hours on the MEP course
Have 70 hours PIC of aeroplanes
complete the 7 hour MEP ground school and pass the Class Rating theory exam
Pass a skill test with a FE on a MEP aeroplane
Hold a JAA medical certificate

[hugh flung_dung]

Belated thanks Whopity - I think we're all in agreement for once ;)

The guy is just about ready for the MEP LST, but after reading SD19 and LASORS there's one aspect that I'm still unclear about - the requirement for the 150nm flight.
Since there is no statement anywhere that the 150nm flight must be done in an MEP (if the PPL LST is in an MEP) I infer that it's acceptable for it to have been done in an SEP whilst holding an NPPL. In this case there won't be the usual "qualifying cross-country certificate" to submit with the PPL application but I assume that the HoT can certify that it was performed satisfactorily.

Comments?

HFD

[212man]

Sorry, but the CAA's hands are undoubtedly tied by the JAR-FCL stipulations.

(As I'm sure you know) actually, the CAA are still quite flexible, when required. I've had two TRI/TRE ratings/authorities issued on new types, without strictly meeting the JAR-FCL requirements (one was the second issued in the UK, the other the first.) I've always found them very pragmatic:ok: