Tiger on the prowl

[fender]

Tiger beefs up fleet for launch


Mathew Murphy
June 22, 2007 - 9:24AM
The battle of the low cost carriers continues to heat up with Tiger Airways ordering up to 50 extra Airbus A320s for its upcoming launch into the Australian domestic market as rival Jetstar increases its services.

Tiger used the Paris Air Show to fire another salvo at Jetstar, signing a Memorandum of Understanding for 30 additional Airbus A320s with a further 20 options. The deal will boost its fleet of nine A320s with 11 more on order.

Tiger chief executive Tony Davis said the new A320s would be deployed around the airline's regional network in South East Asia, including Australia when it begins domestic services later this year.

Jetstar hit back announcing plans to expand direct services from Melbourne and Sydney to the Gold Coast. Qantas' budget carrier will add two daily return services from Melbourne to the Gold Coast taking it to 14 services per week for that route. Sydney passengers will receive one extra return service to the Gold Coast, increasing its number of trips to seven per week.

The services for the leisure-based carrier will come on line during its peak service period, operating the extra flights from December 22.

Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce said Melburnians were increasingly choosing the Gold Coast as a travel destination with demand increasing by 11 per cent in the year to March 2007. Sydneysiders appear to be following the trend as well with serviices up 9 per cent on the same period.




:D At last ,a true LCC and not a joke like Jokestar trying to undermine the industry.

[Checkerboard]

Anyone know what's happening with their Australian recruitment for pilots?? Has anyone had a reply for them or feedback on when they might be interviewing??

[fender]

[email protected]

Send your CV to above address and wait I guess.
I believe they are sifting through mant files at the moment and will get back to people once the details are in place.
Fingers crossed.

[The Kavorka]

Fender,

I'm not sure what you mean by saying that JQ is undermining the aviation industry?

As far as I can see, QF started J* to slow the growth of Virgin and decrease its overall expenditure, which they have seem to have acomplished..

I take it your another angry qf driver who see's his/her command pushed back by the expansion/success of JQ....

Airlines, in this country anyway, seem to be becoming more like a bus service whether you like it or not!! JQ/VB/ and Tiger will only make it harder to justify a full service airline on short flights across aus..

No one knows what Tiger will be like yet, so to say at least there is now a true LCC is a lilltle premature I think!!

[otto the grot]

Interestingly enough, out of Tigers' Melbourne (Tullamarine) base, I don't see any competition for them.
Now this assumes that they start serving places like Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane etc. etc.
It also assumes that Qantas and Virgin are not there target competition and that Jetstar operating to these cities out of Avalon, don't figure into the equation either.
Am I missing something here?

[priapism]

And the finalists in the aus aviation race to the bottom are approaching the starters blocks.

[lowerlobe]

Kavorka..... "Fender,

I'm not sure what you mean by saying that JQ is undermining the aviation industry?

As far as I can see, QF started J* to slow the growth of Virgin and decrease its overall expenditure, which they have seem to have acomplished.."

Do you think that perhaps QF could have countered the VB threat another way?

How about improving your product ,especially the business sector instead of withdrawing full services?

That novel approach seems to have escaped certain people.

Instead Darth set up J* and has effectively lowered wages for not only pilots but all staff from Check in to Cabin crew.

Was that his intention?

You would have to think that way unless of course you are one of the J* jockey's who voted to accept a lower pay packet...

As far as the success of J* is concerned all you have to do is look at it's contribution to total group profit and think again at the real purpose of J*.

If Darth really wants cheap fares for the Australian public bring on Tiger and let's see some competition...

[Wingspar]

Jetstar will do what is was intended for....keep market share and QF will prop it up to that end.

Question is how will VB counter? Ultra Lite....

How much is Tiger willing to lose because it will lose a hell of a lot!

Anyway the consumer will be the winner because there will be many cheap fares!

[neville_nobody]

Can anyone with a finance or accounting background care to explain to us how Tiger are going to be cheaper and be profitable?
Given compared to Jetstar they have:

The same aircraft
The same routes
Same airport fees
Operate under the same regulations
Burn the same fuel
Staff costs one would guess are going to be the same or higher. And even if they get foreign pilots/crew they get paid more that Jetstar anyway :rolleyes:

So how are they going to be so much cheaper than Jetstar?

Unless this is all a big game and Singapore are trying to get back at QF or something similar.

[lowerlobe]

Jetstar will do what is was intended for....keep market share and QF will prop it up to that end....

To say that is an inacurate oversimplification would be an understatement.

Yep there will be cheap fares but at what cost?

[Wingspar]

So Jetstar is a money making miracle then?

[lowerlobe]

Wingspar.......

Have a look at how much money it's making compared to total group profit and then look at your first post again for J*'s purpose.

[fender]

J*...Making money... HAHAHAHAAA..
If only we could get to see the real money juggling.


Why will Tiger be more profitable!!.
Because they will be a LCC not a cheap and nasty QF.
Look at the amount of people in Jetstar feathering their nests. I have heard that senior pilots are having to take 330 slots that they don't want just so they can stay in their home port ,or stop from being demoted back to F/O.
Well, that is cost effective isn't it..

[The Kavorka]

Fender

Why would "senior" pilots have to go to the 330 to hold their commands????
There is a heap of movement at the moment, so senior guys can pretty much can take their pick...
Sounds like the back seat is getting to you....

[fender]

Just telling you the facts. Heard from the mouth of one of the same. I dont want a medal just the facts.

[Wingspar]

Lowerlobe,

Exactly!

When the real competition starts watch the small profits evaporate into large losses.

Who'll be left standing?

[Going Boeing]

All these airlines are ordering aircraft to engage in a massive fare war on the Oz domestic scene, but I'd like to know where are the pilots coming from?

Are the Tiger aircraft to be flown domestically in Oz going to be registered in Aust. If so they will have to be flown by pilots with Oz ATPL's so that would add time to any foreign pilots being able to commence their employment - some may not even pass the subjects. Starting the operation with 5 aircraft is certainly do-able but to recruit enough pilots for 30 more (with 20 options) is in the realm of fantasy land when you are offering LCC salaries and T's & C's. :ugh:

[fender]

LCC does not equal Low salaries for pilots.

30 aircraft to be used where necessary in the SE Asia region, Including Australia.

[Casper]

Tiger already has sufficient Oz pilots with Oz ATPLs to commence Oz services.

Try checking the seat pitch of Tiger A320s. THAT'S where they'll make the money! More bums = more cash for the same a/c. That's IF they can convince Oz pax to become sardines for low fares.

[ANstar]

I doubt all 50 are bound for Australia.

The article says they will be used for expansion in SE Asia (including Austrlalia).

[fender]

That's what I thought I said... Oh well,great minds think alike.

[Metro man]

McDonalds have a highly successfull business model, but no one raves about the quality of their food. Far easier to find a Maccas nearby than a quality restaurant.

I've never seen advertising from Tiger that stresses anything other than the fare, and that's the where they will sit in the market in Australia. Catering to people who care about price and that's it. If you want service and frills go elsewhere.

Out of Tiger's home base in Singapore, Singapore Airlines operate up to five B777s a day to Bangkok, catering to people who are prepared to pay extra for their award winning service. Tiger operate up to three A320s a day on the same route catering to those who aren't. The question for Australia is are there enough people prepared to pay full service fares to keep the likes of QF in business, there is no shortage of flannelette shirt/track suit bottom/thong wearing passengers for Tiger.

[B A Lert]

Can anyone with a finance or accounting background care to explain to us how Tiger are going to be cheaper and be profitable?
Given compared to Jetstar they have:

The same aircraft
The same routes
Same airport fees
Operate under the same regulations
Burn the same fuel
Staff costs one would guess are going to be the same or higher. And even if they get foreign pilots/crew they get paid more that Jetstar anyway

So how are they going to be so much cheaper than Jetstar?

Unless this is all a big game and Singapore are trying to get back at QF or something similar.[/B]

- THe same aircraft? True, but did they cost the same. All kinds of deals are done, just like you or me purchasing a car. As a result, aircraft financing cosrts are not the same.

- Same airport fees? Not necessarily so as again, deals are done to 'encourage' airlines to use particular airports. Most of Jetstars start-up deals would have been done and dusted' by the time Tiger gets going.

- Burn the same fuel? But at the same cost? No bloody way.

- Staff costs the same? In the days of TN and AN, al ground staff were paid pretty much the same on account of the ASU, TWU, FCU, AFAP etc. etc. agreements, the same salaries/wages applied across the industry for the same work. These days are well and truly passed and wage costs vary enormously between employers and service providers. All overheads will vary.

In summary, Tiger may well offer a lower price to the public until they develop a certain critical mass when a lot of fixed costs will start to bite. Jetstar started 'lean and mean' but as it grows, it will become just as bloated as any other bureaucracy wirh overheads always heading north: mean but not lean??

[Roost]

I know from a previous life forgien companies working in Australia were only subject to their home countries tax, in certain mining area. I think at the time it was a break to encourage the industry that was in a slump. Worked, its going off now.

Could it be possible they aren't subject to all Aussie taxes?

Also, even if wages are same per person, likely they will have less people at the top end. Look in Melb now, there at not hundreds of people to get this off the ground, no Alan J* pay packets down there. There is only a handful. Jet* started with queit a number of highend ultrahigh salaries.

[UNOME]

My friend (who should know) is coming to Oz this week to tidy up the loose ends and tells me this:

Pay; Just waiting for the VB EBA to settle. Then Tiger can announce that they have the highest paid LC pilots in the world. (Makes recruitment easier!) Still holding on AUD180K base, plus super, etc. :ok:

Lose money/ make money; SIA doesn't care how much they need to throw on the fire, this is PAYBACK for AN time! Also once they float Tiger, SIA will receive the real prize: THE PACIFIC routes.

Aircraft; 55 320s, initally 12 330s and eventually ALL of SIAs 340-500s. Why? Because SIA doesn't want them nor need them...but they do want that Pacific Route!

SIA is going to stroke this pussy for as long as it takes. Maybe there is a major change in the wind downunder...imagine pilots being paid very well, having a passion about the airline they fly for and actually enjoying their jobs!!:D seems simple and sensible to me...

[murgatroid]

Unome,

A couple of questions regarding your friends leaked information.

Pay. Why would Tiger wait for Virgin EBA to settle? If they wanted to shake things up a bit and were going to offer more money, then the smart idea would be do do it whilst the EBA is open and create more chaos for Virgin.

Float Tiger? How is that going to give SIA access to the Pacific? SIA is still a foreign airline and the gov't policy is a case by case basis for air rights. Tiger may get the pacific in its own right, but not SIA by default.

Also, the goose that lays the golden egg on the pacific is business/first. Are Tiger going upmarket? Also, if Tiger fly the pacific, then it makes SIA lobbying to fly the route even more unlikely to succeed. SIA want the pacific for SIA, not Tiger (that is second place, something the Singaporeans will not accept).

Don't get me wrong, I think Tiger are no dummies. I think they will take a measured approach to Aus, they are not going to throw 55 jets this way straight away but will build over 5-10yrs as the market expands as well. Maybe over this time there will be enough room for 4 majors - 2 premium, 2 discount, without too much of a bloodbath. For workers in all companies, I hope that will be the way it plays out.

Finally, I think Tiger are in for a bit of a hard time. The media will be watching them very very closely, any stuff-ups will be a big media deal. Remember, Australians can be quite xenophobic.

[UNOME]

In reply to your Qs;

1. Pay. Answered above.

2. Float Tiger? Yes, ASAP as far as I know.

3. How does that help SIA? They own most of Tiger now...float it...re-brand it later. Ahhh so you firmly believe that Jetstar is totally autonomous to Qantas..okay now I understand you! :bored:

4. The Goose that lays the largest golden egg may be a low cost business class...

5. 55 jets will take 10 years...and it took VB how long?? How much more cash does SIA have and is willing to provide?? Which market is Tiger shooting for?? According to you, the past has no bearing on the immediate future.

6. All airlines sometimes drop the ball..it's how well you pick it back up that makes the difference.

7. Why are all of you Melburnians xenophobs?? :E

[coaldemon]

It will be interesting but fromwhat I hear from one of the guys that has done the Tiger interview.
1. Money $164000 ( to get to 190 add super and a bit of overtime) so really probably $175000. This is well below Ryanair etc depending on how you account for different tax rates , currency conversions etc.

2. If they are floating and want to do it quick then they will need to be making money. That should be interesting in a market full of capacity and low airfares. My understanding is that they haven't made money yet so that should make them attractive to the underwriters.

3. It is possible now for Singapore to set up a Australian owned company to run their international out of Australia. It was done by Ansett international so that can't be that much of an issue.

4. The reason that VB got 55 jets is due to Ansett collapsing and also growing the market over the years. The singaporeans do have money but I haven't yet come across one that would waste money just to have an airline in Australia. If that was the case they would have started one a long time ago.

5. Geese or not business class is dominated by product / frequent flyer points / lounges etc. If they don't have those then it doesn't matter. Ozjet comes to mind really with low cost business class. That really worked a treat.

6. Where are all these A330s and 50 A320s going to pull up at all of these airports? ONly Melbourne and Coolangatta at this stage so it should be interesting to see.

With all of these aircraft coming in next year if you can't get a job as an Airline pilot you may as well give up. :cool:

[Trashed Aviator]

So when is the interviews is 6000 hrs A320 not good enough for a look.:ok:

[woodja51]

has anyone actually got any reply from any EOI to Tiger at the web address above?? OR are they keeping it a secret?

Any info on ops out of PER on a 330 gets my interest up a bit.

[UNOME]

1. Your mate is basing his figures on what the Singapore based Capts are paid i.e average SGD200,000 (@ 10% tax). I am told that the Australian contract has not been released to even those employed by Tiger for the Oz operation therefore, I seriously doubt that your friends info is valid. AUD180 base plus super and o/t is still my "ballpark" guess.

2. Profit is in the purchase. Maybe the thinking is not what it has earned in the short term but; A) who is the backer? (SIA) and B) what improvement potential the share price has = shareholder profit?

BTW Who are the most profitable Airlines in the world?:)

3. Concur

4. SIA has a long memory. Once bit... twice as determined! They have been trying to get Pacific rights for how long?? Will GoD ever let them??

5. Why do people fly Business Class? Seat size is the most important factor. Maybe Tiger will be offering a regular seat or supersize me!

6. Mel,Adl (Old terminal), Per, Brm, Drw, Asp, Cns, Tsv, Mky, etc but not at SYD... Build it and they will come...

Getting pilots will be the problem. Possibly some of us old guys could cash up from QF and do a retirement gig?:zzz:

[Casper]

SQ certainly have long memories, especially about the Pacific route.

Try this scenario. Tiger offer a ridiculously low fare to SIN ON CONDITION that the purchaser also purchases an SQ ticket (any class) from SIN to the US. The punter obtains a VERY low cost SIN stopover (if desired) for a very competitive fare to the US. Just a possibility?

[BrazDriver]

From PER to LAX it is far cheaper to fly SQ than QF. Air NZ is more competitive than QF! QF is the dearest with the worst in flight product out of the 3. Who ever said you get what you pay for! I know my choice!

[BrazDriver]

Just to back up my previous post,

PER - LAX Random last week in Jul

QF $ 3468 :yuk:
ANZ $ 2096 :D
SQ $ 2340 :ok:
It is even cheaper to fly via HKG with CX! $ 2341 :ok:

Thats a big difference for QF! :yuk:

[Mr. Hat]

I can't wait to see this fight unfold.

Tiger are clearly going to be an alternative for the J* pilots and i suspect they will be offering a few incentives to coax people over. At the moment J* pilots are free agents and can leave when they want to. I'm tipping that a lengthy bond for new hires isn't far off with the Tiger arrival drawing closer.

Interestingly on another thread a discussion about increased salaries at J*.

[galdian]

Mr Hat
I think the suggested improvement in T&C's are interesting; however as someone else far smarter than myself (probably about 90% of the population!) has pointed out I think it is MORE interesting the companies want the EBA's for 5 years.
From experience a hell of a lot can happen in 5 years.

Obviously the companies, being benevolent types, want to PROTECT the pilots T&C's from the imminent downturn that only they can see and which, by unscrupulous operators, could be used to lower T&C's. :eek:

Bless their little cotton socks; makes me a little teary, actually. :ok:

[Mr. Hat]

At the moment if you want to leave J* or VB and stay in Australia your options are a bit limited without retraining and going through the whole new type caper again. For the J* guys/gals this will change with the arrival of tiger.

[brown_hornet]

Possibly has already been mentioned but does anyone have any inside info as to whether Tiger plan on using the Jetstar strategy and having pilots in multiple bases once they get up and running, ie no/few overnights or just having the one base in Mel?

[UNOME]

There will be no layovers for Tiger pilots therefore...

Shame really because, for the neophyte airline pilot it is an intrinsic part of his sexual awakening :8 and for us old blokes, it's great way to have a few dozen beers with ya mates!!

[smiling monkey]

With their current minimum requirements, doesn't look like there's anyway to get in from GA. :ouch:

[Jet Jockey]

Casper. The A320 has a manufacture's max 180seats + 2 crew can't see how tiger is going to squeeze on a heap more than J* with a 177 seats. 3 extra seats not going to make much difference.
.:hmm:

[Skystar320]

Based on average fare of $99 those seats are worth $297

x 8sectors a day = $2,376
x 7days a week = $16,632
x 52weeks a year = $864,864

Nearly an extra $1million in potential revenue a year, I wouldn't say no to that!

[B A Lert]

Skystar320 assumes 100% seat factor on each and every flight and zero downtime for maintenance. Not likely on both counts.

[Skystar320]

No assuming anything as I said it’s the potential to earn up to $800k a year extra by adding those extra 3seats

[neville_nobody]

I would be careful holding up Singapore as the "world's most profitable carrier" as they get plenty of help on the tax front from the Singapore Government. Something they seem to forget when they come here complaining that Qantas is propped up by the Australian Government.

As for costs vs Jetstar I cannot see how they can be cheaper than Jetstar. Jetstar's aircraft came through at bargain basement prices thanks to the QF A380 deal even though Dixon said that a few years previous that the 737-800 was a superior aircraft when they had a fly off between the two.

Jetstar uses QF facilities, or they use the common user facilities. Can't see how Tiger will be getting cheaper deals given they are a low volume in comparison to QF/Jetstar and Virgin.

Jetstar pilots are the cheapest in Australia, Flight Attendants are getting paid peanuts so I can't see how they will save much money.

I understand that all these things are flexible and can be negotiated, however for Tiger to offer the prices they are saying, I can't see how they will make any money.

[Southern handler]

Recently flew DRW SIN SGN with Tiger. Not sure what capacity they have on these A320's but leg room was a real struggle, the gf is quite short and she struggled with legroom I'm a smidge under 6 foot and would of been buggered without having a spare seat between us.

As a comparison to JQ Domestic JQ have a lot more comfort and legroom. Also the TR F/A's are more hardcore trying to sell inflight.

Flew back SGN SYD on the JQ A330 and was quite happy very good legroom, sure you had to pay for everything but when you pay bugger all for the flight I wasn't overly concerned with this. Oh and nice friendly F/A's

cheers

[galdian]

Hi Neville
Always enjoy your posts.
Agree completely with your last statement - can't see how they can make money.

The idea is to LOSE as little as possible but establish the beachhead for SQ to head off in whatever direction(s) they so choose, THAT's when they'll make money.
If they ever do get on the Pacific routes the level of service they provide will cause QF one hell of a headache; time will tell regarding VB Intl, doubt thay have any real idea of what their In Flight Service will be and any plans they have now will be revamped many times before any 777's are in the air.

Like pornstar the tiger operation will be well supported by the parent companies and the figures in the books Vs the day to day reality of their operational costs will be two very different and incompatible sets of figures.
They know that, we know that, they know that we know and the general public doesn't give a stuff - all they want are the cheapest seat costs and don't care what lies, distortions, half truths etc are trotted out to achieve the result.
If nobody else would be nice to think the ATO at least would be interested in how the figures are put together! :E

[Wingspar]

The main problem for Tiger like any other Singaporean company will be a little thing called 'accountability"?
They will have to answer to Australian law!

[Bolty McBolt]

Tiger Oz pilots are in training in SIN

A small group of Australian pilots are right now going thru the motions of Tiger training.(they can't be the only future OZ tiger pilots as there is'nt enough of them) As far as I have heard, the only pay negotiations agreed on are the training wage while living in SIN. I think Tiger wanted these trainees to get some flying under Tiger SOPs while in SIN but it is proving difficult to get around the Singapore Air Leg rules.

These trainees will be in SIN for the next 3 to how ever many months it takes to get Tiger OZ of the ground.

[UNOME]

Nev, Gald, and Wing;

Why are your collective "expert" opinions so negative and derogatory?

Bolty

"I think Tiger wanted these trainees to get some flying under Tiger SOPs while in SIN but it is proving difficult to get around the Singapore Air Leg rules."
How does something you think become fact? I do believe the 5 or 6 ex-Ansett A320 Captains, (who have been flying long-haul widebodies all over the planet since the AN demise) and have all well and truely checked out, may take umbrage to your "opinion". BTW, SGD18,000pm is pretty good "training pay" :O

What is your problem boys? Does the thought of another 500- 600 airline pilot jobs in OZ (@200k pa) being created by SIA upset you that much??

[neville_nobody]

Not trying to be derogatory and certainly no expert in business, just interested in how they propose to do this. I have a passing interest in economics and finance and just curious to how all these LCC make money.

Again anyone in the know I am interested in hearing an explanation. My mates in the finance game don't know much about aviation.

The reason I say this is that GD seems to harp on about keeping the cost base down in all areas etc etc. So even if Tiger had the same cost base as everyone else but paid the pilots more (by a significant amount) how are they going to make money? One way I suppose is if the entire market grew and all airlines were 90% full all the time. However given that the Australian population is pretty small I doubt that it can support all 4 airlines.

[Cactus Jak]

Type rated Captains a plenty, including a couple ex J*.

I believe the training up in Singas is for the benefit of newly rated ef ohs. Wether they migrate back to OZ or not for launch is yet to be seen.

[Keg]

What is SQ up to?

Of course they're not interested in hooking up with QF at the moment....it's way over priced. I reckon they're out to nobble QF to the stage where SQ can become the 'saviours'. It's not a bad strategy either from their perspective. :eek:

Of course QF isn't putting up much of a defence at the moment!

[Wingspar]

Unome,

Don't get me wrong. I hope Tiger's plan do end up in many high paid jobs for pilots in AUS.

My comments reflect the contrast of the corporate landscape that exists between Singapore and Australia.

[Wirraway]

"Melbourne Age" Wed

Tiger Airways announces domestic route
June 27, 2007 - 2:59PM

Melburnians will be able to fly to Darwin for $80 one way with Tiger Airways as the low cost carrier announced it would begin domestic flights on the route from December.

Tiger chief executive Tony Davis made the announcement which marks the official start of the Singapore Airlines-backed carrier's assault on the Australian domestic market.

Up until now Tiger has refused to reveal when its domestic services would start or where it would fly despite announcing Melbourne as its home base almost two months ago.

Mr Davis said the one way tickets for the Melbourne to Darwin route, which have gone on sale today, would cost $79.99 inclusive of all taxes and charges and would commence on December 1.

"Tiger Airways is pleased to offer our first domestic route, linking our home base of Melbourne and our international gateway of Darwin, with one-way prices of less than half of the advertised fare of our competitors," he said. "Darwin has long suffered from a lack of affordable domestic air fares and this new service by Tiger Airways, with our true low, low fares, will be welcomed by both travellers and the tourism industry alike."

Tiger will also offer Flight Combo fares between Melbourne and Singapore for $499 return inclusive of taxes and charges.

Mr Davis said all fares offered on Tiger's domestic services can be changed online up to four hours prior to departure for $10, plus the difference in any fare.

He said Tiger would be adding further routes to its domestic network over the coming weeks.

===============================================

[PattyStacker]

[QUOTE Jetstar pilots are the cheapest in Australia, Flight Attendants are getting paid peanuts so I can't see how they will save much money.]

JQ FA's aren't exactly eating beans and sprouts.... We may not make as much as the overnighting brigades but I can still have a bottle of vino in the comfort of my own home. Life is good;)

[fender]

Alice Springs and Perth just announced.
How does one get a look in?

[cunninglinguist]

Can anyone confirm/deny the rumour of a hefty bond AND paying for part of the rating with Tiger :confused:

Also with the amount of hirees they supposedly have already, still no mention of pay etc ?

[RFN]

If they try and put a bond on a type your already rated and current on, well, I can't imagine the 30-40 Jet* pilots who are looking will now look too hard!

T& C's STILL in the works! Should have been up considering the VB EBA is over.

[jeepers]

Last week Tiger was offering fares Darwin to Singapore for $30 AUD. Unfortunately I missed out and had to pay $129 a few days later........still not bad. I'll easily miss out on a few meals if it meaans I get an affordable holiday with my family every year. Bring it on!

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Interesting article in today's Age about Singapore Airlines possibly looking at selling their stake in VS, which could be worth up to 1 billion pounds.

From the article - "London based analyst Chris Tarry said the only thing that is clear now is that Singapore is turning it's focus elsewhere.":hmm:

[cunninglinguist]

I think you will find 30-40 Jet* pilots a slight exaggeration on the 10 or less that are rumoured to be going, time will tell.

Apologies for not being more concise :hmm:, I was referring to non rated drivers

[otto the grot]

Tiger bares its teeth


Geoff Easdown

July 28, 2007 12:00am


TIGER Airways has been promised however many aircraft and funds needed to fight against cashed-up rivals Virgin Blue and Jetstar.

Tiger's third biggest shareholder, Declan Ryan, yesterday dismissed claims by the carrier's critics that Tiger would exhaust its cash reserves before it was profitable.

Tiger will be supported, Mr Ryan declared, adding that its four major stakeholders were prepared for the risks.

"Sure we would" Mr Ryan replied, when pressed on the issue of whether it would support the carrier. "This is a very capital intensive business".

As a member of the family that launched Ryanair, the world's most successful low-cost carrier, Mr Ryan should know what's needed to make an airline profitable.

When Tiger begins domestic operations in December, the airline will have a fleet of five 177-seat Airbus A320s.

Depending on demand, it will be able to draw from a fleet of 50 new A-320s ordered at the recent Paris air show.

Questions about Tiger's looming cash needs and the limited size of its start-up fleet arose this week at an aviation summit when Tony Davis, Tiger's chief executive, spoke to regional airline chiefs.

Yesterday, after a meeting of the Tiger board in Melbourne, both Mr Ryan and Mr Davis dismissed as a "fallacy" that Tiger was likely to burn tens of millions of dollars before turning a profit.

"We are going to bring the business public, " Mr Ryan said.

Would Tiger float here?

"I'd love to float in the Aussie market," Mr Ryan replied, adding that it was probably better for the company to list in Singapore.

"When we listed Ryanair, we didn't have to list in Dublin, but if you don't list in your home market, you can get a good kick.

"I think the Australian market does need some good aviation stocks."

What would Tiger take from the Ryanair model and bring to the Australian market?

"Low fares, simplicity, punctuality and on-time departures and arrivals.

"The average Ryanair fare in Europe is about 47 euro a head and we make another 8-to-10 euro on auxiliary revenue.

"That's from Budweiser," said Mr Ryan, noting that "there's only one bar at 35,000 feet."

"We are going to commodotise the air market here.

"Tony has been saying that if we took $25 off the average price of air fares in the country, the good Australian people would save in the order of $1 billion a year."

Mr Ryan said it was too easy for low-cost offshoots to operate by drawing a comparison with their parent airline's budget.

"And because of that, you haven't seen low fares in Australia".

Mr Ryan ventured a suggestion about running Jetstar to Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon.

"The guys at Jetstar shouldn't take phone calls from Geoff Dixon."

"He should leave them alone and tell them to report just once a month."

According to Mr Davis: "That's very much the relationship we have with Singapore Airlines.

"There is no day-to-day contact," he said.