Clark Institute of Aviation

[Bagoongathipon]

xxfl350xx

pardon my ignorance..
Whats the difference between the 50% sponsored and nonsponsored? Are you refering to those not sponsored by cebu pac? Because its either the cebu pac sponsored, non cebu pac sponsored. Please enlighten me. OR maybe the tons of information here in the forum has made everything mixed up?

Secondly, as a noncebu pac sponsored cadet, i didnt know if there was an airline who will accept me until about 1-2 months after my base training. I was already planning to go to the general aviation but i decided otherwise because I knew that CA was doing something.

While there were alot of foreign management people who wasnt doing anything but sh!t, the last management who handled us wasnt. We knew they were trying to fixed what the previous managements where doing and they were trying to fix what was due for us. It wasnt that easy and it didnt take a day, a week or a month.. it would take 2-3months to have things get going. And that was fast.

Just like in the corporate world (to those who have experienced), that a contract could take a quarter or even a year to have it even approved.

I worked in the corporate environment before and meeting owners of big banks, talking to employed presidents. Its not that easy to engage on something eventhough you already have the blessing of the owner. Much ofcourse an MPL program.

While it is best for clark av to iron out everything even before the school was launched, i guess it was a business decision/strategy. Supposedly Lesser cost for them?

Whether it worked or failed, i just protected my own interest. So when I got to talk to one of the management who handled us, I knew he wasnt talking sh!t by asking questions and probe them. (as compared to the first 2managements i talked to, they were hopeless) It was just hard to make things work because of their initial strategy.

They have to talk to airlines who would absorb mplers.. this wouldnt take a month.
They have to talk to airlines who would accomodate base training.. this either wont take a month of negotiation.
For foreign pilots, they have to have their philippine issued MPL converted to UAE. It took them 2-3months?! and it was processed by ICAO. Would you blame ICAO? Why cant they process it in 2days?

Above that is the MPL program itself, there were standards to be followed, clark av, cebu pac and caap has to play it by ear. Making adjustments and requirements here and there. The other airlines, zest air and airphil had the easier way. They just waited and see. It also took 2-3months for some MPLs to be absorbed in airphil.

The 3years I stayed in Clark Av, the pros and con, the uncertainties, was a much better option that going for general av, in my opinion.

Because it was way easier than what gen av people have gone through. and I respect them for that. I cannot survive fish flying for free and all the things that comes with it. So much respect with them.

So, if there are still MPL in Clark, im sure that they will be absorbed by the local airlines because pilots are such in demand right now and it was the best business proposition.

The question is, are those MPLs still there are at par with the airline minimum requirements? If yes, im sure they will be absorbed by a local airline.

For my point of view, these were the options back then.
1. PALav: 2years as a cadet, 2nd officer for atleast 3years? (total 5years)
2. Genav: Only 1% would be able to make to an airline.. plus the hazards? (I dont have the average # of years a gen av pilot makes it to airline jet flying.. but i guess you get the point)
3. Clarkav: as per my experience, 3years of uncertainty then FO on an A320? and by next year i would have reached 1500 hours.. Would there be any difference between a CPL and MPL? (well, yeah, depends on my attitude on learning).

You tell me.

I think, in my honest opinion, i made the right choice.

[xxfl350xx]

Bagoongathipon

I have no idea if its your ignorance or if your on something half the time your reading and posting here. And to be quite frank I really dont care.

Read the post again with a clear mind and you might actually understand that I am very happy with the MPL program and the cadets that have concluded and are now flying. That whether some had 100% or 50% sponsorship from Cebu Pac or Clark Av sponsorship (what you refer to as a noncebu pac sponsored cadet) is irrelevant at this point.
Im sure also that with your years and years of corporate experience, dealings with banks and so forth, you are a very knowledgeable and wise person in regards to businesses.. But again its irrelevant to the point.

What is relevant to this thread is positively helping and assisting all the CA pilots in their future endeavors. I am honestly impressed at their performance and thats why I decided to post on this thread.They have proven beyond a doubt that the MPL is a worthy licence to hold. And with all that I know about CA, I know that whether one was aligned or not, it was not an easy road for any cadet at the time to conclude their studies. I am also aware that their are a handful of students who have concluded but are not aligned as of yet. I do share the same concern in knowing what will happen and outcome of those MPL pilots.
I pretty much doubt that anyone will be able to answer that here right now, but we can at least, for now express our concern and best wishes to those still waiting.
And for those MPl'ers flying keep up the good work and dedication. Our industry is not an easy one, but it is a rewarding experience to be in it right.

[chairwrecker]

i think some guys are too defensive. my bet is that all local MPLers will be absorbed eventually (in the next 12 months max hopefully) by local carriers. the problem is on the non-locals who sponsored themselves through CA. what is CA doing for them?

[chairwrecker]

@bagoongathipon
also in the interest of fairness i doubt it very much if the last management you were dealing with performed a miracle in actually convincing Zestair to take MPLers.

my experience in things like this tells me that CA's past management in most likelihood have been talking to Zestair about it too. it was not actually a matter of CA management being more persuasive and stuff this time, but rather zestair finally willing to take a gamble on MPLers due to spike in competition for FOs. it was the market that dictated Zestair consider MPL.

that's a huge difference right there, fanboy.

[Bagoongathipon]

@xxfl350xx
sorry, i was addressing only the first two paragraphs to you. The succeeding paragraphs are just an exposition of the experiences i had during my stay in clark and how i saw things. It was not a reply to your post.

@chairwrecker..

You are right that about currently its the market that dictated on whats happening right now.

What im really saying is the difference of how we were treated and how things were planned by the different managements. On a cadet's perspective.

[coffindodger]

Is Mr. Peter Q still there or has he retired now ?? Thanks

[malirm]

Just got out from a meeting in Alpha Aviation Academy, it included the GM, HOT & Air Arabia's Training Manager...and other AAA staff.

As for the time being, The 3 CA MPL cadets were released from line training & are now Full FOs of Air Arabia, while the other 4 are still under the SO position (for the Line Training). MPL cadets must do (initially) 80 sectors with Air Arabia before they get released to FO position (depending on Availability of Slots AND performance)...might be reduced (from 80 sectors) as soon as MPL becomes more popular & Air Arabia becomes 100% confident of the "product".

More on that in http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/423554-alpha-aviation-academy-3.html

as this is a CA thread :)

[nandyg1]

i've flown with quite a number of mpls and some are ok.
most dont know squat about basic flying SIDs,interception,LOP, etc.......:ugh:

[malirm]

Hi Nandyg1, try me...I mean Try us now :) looooots of stuff has been changed...trust me :)

[chairwrecker]

@malirm
you're kidding right? i know what you're trying to say, but believe me, a lot of guys will be turned off instead by your "offer" of a "trial."

[Thunderbolt49]

malirm
"Hi Nandyg1, try me...I mean Try us now http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif looooots of stuff has been changed...trust me http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif"

What has changed?

[malirm]

Well, where to start...lets start from the Offer/Trial point:

Lets say the MPL was in a position where its carrier must peg airlines & ask them for a trial...but after doing it right this time...since The MPL Academy has a Partner Airline (As 99% of us have right NOW [This is one of the CHANGES that happened]) I wouldn't really Piss or Turn Off some guys...I will just go & fly :) sorry...I take it back :ok:

Things that Changed:

Alots of changes on the Core flying phase, more instrument & Solo Cross-Country flights + other teaching techniques...CBT, Sims Sessions...we treat the Cessna like an A320...we have SOPs, Flows...etc. !

MCC, more realistic/serious stuff occuring...more focussing on how to fly a Jet & its instruments...you know what I mean...even if you had 1000 hours on Gen Av aircrafts...you go to a glass cockpit & you'll say WTF for FMS/PFD/ND?AP/FD & so on...in addition to the Manual Handling of the Jet...I've seen some CPL Gen Av pilots doing the Jet flying...they're at entry level still (No offense)...all of us would start like that = most of us will reach a certain Equal level at MCC/Jet transition...

Then 110 hours on the A320 Sim + 12 or TOs & Landings! + Line Training

Where else you want me to point changes...if you want to turn off the MPL, please make sure to turn off the Air Force guys, who had been trained the same way as MPL guys are training right now...MPL is the CIVIL version of the Airforce training (including MCC)...would I be ready on my 245th hour for the A320 Ops...I'd say YES...Its not only me in the Cockpit, its a Multi-Crew environment...would I be ready for a Pilot incapacitation situation...why not...I've done in the MCC & will do it several times on the A320 sim soon :)

[euindkan]

will you guys be doing 12 T/O's and landing on AA revenue flights.

[malirm]

Until this moment, the 12 TAGs won't be on revenue flights...don't think would happen on a revenue flight anytime...AA & AAG are talking with the UAE GCAA to reduce it to 6 TAGs, yet I don't know...there might be some kind of Out sourcing...renting an A320 for 3 days to finish us with AA training Captains...by March we would know the results of the talks with the GCAA...A320 for TAGs...don't know if you need a General Declaration Form !

[chairwrecker]

@malirm
your excited posts are well and good. appreciate the time and effort that went into that.

what i'm trying to say is that we're talking abt passenger lives here. a 'trial' seems awefully naive.

[Bagoongathipon]

@malirm
Relax there cowboy! :) If you study enough and train yourself hard enough by yourself, you could excel on those procedures and flying skills.

But based on my experience, those things are easy. Whats hard is the human factors side of flying. Such as:
1. How well you adapt to the standard you know against the overall situation. (Situational awareness)
2. How well you can communicate with different captains of different attitudes when they deviate from standards & parameters.
3. How well you can adapt when everything goes nonstandard.
4. How can you avoid mistakes and errors especially when you get tired (ie 6leg flights with block time of 7:50hrs)
5. How can you cope under pressure on very quick turn arounds
etc etc.

You wont learn this on the sim, trust me. So, just relax, enjoy your training and make most out of it because when you go into the airline, what you learned is just 10% of what aviation is all about.

This is what we dont see on gen av pilots / airforce pilots / tenured airline pilots. That eventhough some still get confused on the glass cockpits, jet handling, fms, etc, they know how to handle the situation quite well.

Ive been flying with newly type rated captains who came from different equipments.. while some dont know the procedure from "interception from above," or get confused on the usage of the FCU,MCDU,managed and selected, they just revert to manual flying to get back on track.

I guess thats the big difference.

Its really a humbling experience seeing these especially for us MPL whom we try to prove our worth in the airline industry.

[Bagoongathipon]

I remembered that I had this very tiring flight we were on our 5th leg and I had a captain whom I just flown with for the first time.

We were really tired and exhausted and during our holding overhead KLO, we ran into a CB and the autopilot disengaged. It was apparent that we were tired because we didnt reacted asap. But after 2-3seconds, I noticed that my captain wasnt still taking over.

Knowing that I was more aware at that moment, Should I say "I have controls!" as per standard?

Well, what I said was "You have controls!!" Then he immediately went back to the situational awareness and commanded for the connection of the AP.

While this is nonstandard, this is to prevent conflict or test his ego or whatever.

This might be debateable, but at that point up there, I know i did the right thing.

[rq4globalhawk]

Well, what I said was "You have controls!!" Then he immediately went back to the situational awareness and commanded for the connection of the AP.
While this is nonstandard, this is to prevent conflict or test his ego or whatever.

I'd expect red ECAM "AP OFF" plus the cavalry charge aural warning. In this case the SOP is to read the ECAM to alert the PF.

Nevertheless that was quick thinking (and diplomatic) on your part.

"Bagoongathipon" .. interesting call sign ... in a few years you'll be "Caviar&Lobster" :)

[traveller93]

Time for a refresher in this topic.

It was going so well when, suddenly, it went silent. Was it because the MPLrs are very busy applying for positions in the various new operators from Clark (or the Philippines)?

After all, the MPL is a legal license in there and even the non-sponsored guys should have a chance.

How many did?

Come on, lets give them all an opportunity to prove their worth!!!

Is Clark Aviation selling their product?

[malirm]

Arabian Aerospace - Air Arabia signs MPL training contract with JATS (http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/article.php?section=training&article=air-arabia-signs-mpl-training-contract-with-jats&utm_source=googleNews&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=news_feed)

:D

[traveller93]

Malirm.

Those seem to be good news for the Alpha Aviation in Sharjah.

Do you have any news about the guys from Clark Aviation joining Air Arabia? Some have already joined, and are apparently doing well.

As you seem to be well informed, just let us know.

[toffeebuenafe]

is clark aviation accepting MPL cadets these days? are there airline alignments available? thanks

[malirm]

I was expecting to see the rest of the Clark Aviation guys here with Air Arabia since the beginning of the Year, but seems some of them were absorbed into Phil Air Express or about to do so, while others might have heard from another airlines...haven't really heard about their plans, anyways, Air Arabia will be ready to take new MPLers inline training in June or so, maybe thats one of the reasons...will keep you posted as soon as I get any update :)

[traveller93]

Thanks Malirm.

As far as I know, here only 5J and Zest have taken MPLrs. The other airlines that are starting ops in Phils are taking the pilots that are leaving 5J and Air Phil. So far, the local airlines have stuck to hiring only locals with the MPL.

I also thought that AA would be taking the guys in January but, obviously, something has changed.

Will be waiting for your news.

[Thunderbolt49]

I gathered:
58 or so are with Cebu Pacific
19 are with Zest Air
5 with AirPhil Express but being trained by PAL
7 with Air Arabia
1 doing National Service in Singapore
1 is somewhere in the Midle East doing his assessment with a ME airline
2 awaiting call from Air Arabia (still)
and 3 still on MPL training (non-aligned) but being absorbed by Cebu Pacific
1 awaiting Base Training (non-aligned also) with Cebu Pacific.
*that is a total of four non-aligned cadets being absorbed by Cebu Pacific.
1 is working on continuing his MPL training in Sharjah

the former Filipino HOT had a lot to do with the placement of non-aligned cadets with airlines here in the Philippines.

He was recently replaced by a Malaysian from Hongkong Airlines

[toffeebuenafe]

Sir, are there airline alignments available for future MPL cadets?

Regarding your info, that's good news for Clark Aviation :ok:

[Thunderbolt49]

I believe it best to go to Clark Aviation and ask the people there what exactly their plans are for their MPL program.

[The_Prophet]

he doesnt know how to teach... everyday will be like a checkride instead of teaching u how to fly the damn plane! he covers his lacking of knowledge in the plane by insulting you!!! by letting u feel u don't know how to fly so that u will think of him as someone who knows everything under the sun about flying and he always brag that he used to work from the country's flag carrier operating the 747-400. Just be aware u guys whose planning to have ur rating here... and most specially JDC.

[emcee]

Any update on this? Still choosing between Clark Aviation and OMNI Aviation.

[airfoil]

how's MPL in Clark now? Is there anyone training for MPL right now? :confused:

[Bennyboy1]

It seems Clark is gradually winding down operations with the departure of many of the instructional staff who are not being replaced. Currently the Ground School is closed to MPL, there is only 1 MPL Instructor remaining.

The Flightline has been shut down to operations with aircraft grounded due to safety concerns over aircraft maintenance and flying standards. Clark has 1 Approved MPL Flight Instructor. The Maintenance function is also now closed as the Maintenance Manager was fired this week.

There are just a couple of MPL cadets left, the stragglers from the original intake with no new business coming in, and they are sitting and waiting for someting to happen. They may be waiting quite a while, there are no time available on the A320 simulator at Clark as well, Cubu Pac are using all available slots. A sad conclusion to an even sadder story

[airfoil]

Thanks for the heads up benny! I appreciate it.
I'm currently torn between doing MPL or the gradual training in Florida.
I might visit CIA to check the situation.

also, any ideas if the recent grads of MPL cadets was absorbed by airlines?

[fatfranz747]

Hey guys,

Just wanna ask whats the difference between the A320 first officer transition program and the A320 type rating training that clark aviation offers. If I'll be availing one of these training programs, will it make me eligible for a first officer position assuming that I just finished my CPL/IR?

Looking forward to your reply guys! :ok:

Thanks.:)

[giords88]

Hello all :)

Im new to this forums and this is actually my first post!

I actually just finished my degree in engineering however it isn't something I'm passionate about. My dream is really to fly and become an Airline Pilot.

I'm looking into different schools which offer training here in the Philippines. I would just like to ask if anyone has gone through or has heard of anything regarding Clark Aviation's PPL,CPL/IR + A320 FOT training program. I talked with the Sales and Marketing person in Clark and she told me that they actually already have 25 waitlisted candidates for the PPL CPL/IR + A320 FOT and that the training for first two batches will begin by this year

From reading some of the comments in the forums I'm beginning to doubt the quality of training i will get there. And from what i heard from my friend who is an MPL graduate and now with Cebu Pacific Clark Aviation lacks training planes and their own runway? Is this still the case now? I was thinking of maybe taking my PPL CPL/IR somewhere else maybe in Omni Aviation then take the a320 FOT at clark since they are the only school which offer it here in the philippines.

Any advice you guys can give me or insights regarding the PPL CPL/IR program of Clark Aviation? Thanks!

[emcee]

How's CA? Haven't heard from anyone with regards to this..

[fatcadet]

I have been following all AAG threads for a long time. Positives as well as negatives articles posted, are interesting to read. Recently I noticed some slandering and false remarks targeting AAG constantly on various threads. I did my reseach on AAG couple of years ago. They are not ordinary company. They enter into the aviation industry to become leader in training pilot with a very clear vision and strong financial muscle to support its for a long haul. They encounter severe up and down over the year in Philippines and UAE. My admiration to them nevertheless they always manage to solve them. Today they have placed many credible pilots flying our sky. Some of them I believe in the near future will be made captain of their flight.

[Taras B]

http://www.cae.com/_img/masthead/pr_logo.gif

http://www.cae.com/_img/pr/cebupacificair.jpg
Press Release
Cebu Pacific Air and CAE to establish new aviation training center in Philippines


Center to offer training for Cebu pilots and third-party airlines
Pasay City, Philippines and Montreal, Canada, December 20, 2011 – Cebu Pacific Air (PSE: CEB), the Philippines’ largest national flag carrier, and CAE (NYSE: CAE; TSX: CAE), world leader in aviation training, today announced that they have signed a joint venture agreement to establish an aviation training center for airlines in the Asia Pacific region. The joint venture will also be responsible for type-rating training of CEB pilots.

The aviation academy is scheduled to start operations in the third quarter of 2012 in Clark Freeport Zone, northwest of the national capital of Manila, and represents an approximate US $40-50 million joint investment.
“We are proud to partner with CAE to support CEB’s growing fleet, expansion plans, and training requirements. This will also help make Asia Pacific’s vibrant aviation industry more appealing in the face of growing competition for well-trained aviation professionals,” said CEB President and CEO Lance Gokongwei. “Airbus’ Global Market Forecast predicts more than 34% (9,160) of total global airplane orders until 2030 will go to the Asia Pacific region, of which 5,770 of these will be single-aisle planes like the A320.”

“By partnering with CAE, CEB once again underscores its commitment to enhance the Philippines’ tourism and aviation potentials by producing world-class pilots and crew,” Gokongwei added.
Jeff Roberts, CAE’s Group President of Civil Simulation Products, Training and Services, said, “We are excited about this new relationship with CEB and the opportunity to help meet the increasing demand for high-quality pilots and other commercial aviation professionals in the Philippines and throughout the region. The new training center will be a world-class, one-stop training center for CEB and a hub for training services for other airlines.”

The joint venture will initially cater to Airbus A319/320/321 series pilot type-rating training requirements and will provide “wet” instructor-led type-rating training for Cebu Air’s current and new-hire pilots. Initial, recurrent, conversion and jet indoctrination training will be available to other Airbus operators.

The state-of-the-art training center will be developed in consultation with CAE’s training facilities design team. It will initially be equipped with two Airbus A320 FFSs with capability to expand by two additional simulators.
The aviation academy is expected to provide training for other aviation personnel in the future, such as cabin crew, dispatch, ground handling personnel and cadets.

About Cebu Air Inc.

Cebu Air Inc. is the largest carrier in the Philippine air transportation industry, offering its low-cost services to more destinations and routes with higher flight frequency within the Philippines than any other airline. CEB currently operates 10 Airbus A319, 19 Airbus A320 and 8 ATR-72 500 aircraft, a fleet of 37 aircraft with an average age of 3.6 years – one of the most modern aircraft fleets in the world. Between 2012 and 2021, Cebu Pacific will take delivery of 23 Airbus A320 and 30 Airbus A321neo aircraft orders, and 2 Airbus A320 aircraft on operating lease agreements.
About CAE

CAE is a world leader in providing simulation and modeling technologies and integrated training solutions for the civil aviation industry and defense forces around the globe. With annual revenues exceeding C$1.6 billion, CAE employs more than 7,500 people at more than 100 sites and training locations in more than 20 countries. We have the largest installed base of civil and military full-flight simulators and training devices. Through our global network of 33 civil aviation, military and helicopter training centers, we train more than 80,000 crewmembers yearly. We also offer modeling and simulation software to various market segments, and through CAE’s professional services division we assist customers with a wide range of simulation-based needs. www.cae.com (http://cae.com/)

-30-
CAE contacts:
Nathalie Bourque, Vice President, Public Affairs and Global Communications, (514) 734-5788, [email protected]
Trade media – civil aviation: Rick Adams, Senior Manager, Marketing Communications – Civil Aviation, (214) 864-5409, [email protected]
Investor relations: Andrew Arnovitz, Vice President, Investor Relations and Strategy, (514) 734-5760, [email protected]

Cebu Air contact:
Investor relations: Jhoanna D. Buganan, Director - Corporate Finance & Investor Relations, (632) 802-7081, [email protected]
Media: MP G. Pestano, Corporate Communications Manager, (632) 851-1430, [email protected]


http://www.cae.com/news/details.ashx?lng=English&location=InvestorsNR&showEvents=False&count=0&id=1363&year=2011

[giords88]

Hi TarasB

This forum has really saved me from making a wrong decision and i would like to thank you most of all for all the information! This is great news!!! I have now decided to take my PPL and CPL/IR in a more reputable school and I'm really hoping that i can get my airline training in the Cebu Pacific and CAE aviation training center once it is set up. Again many thanks for all your help!!! :)

[traveller93]

It has been a long time since I posted anything on a Clark Aviation thread and this one is very short.

Can anyone tell me who is actually running Clark Aviation?
Are they still part of Alpha Aviation Group?

Thanks in anticipation.

[Left Wing]

Alpha Aviation Group | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/AlphaAvGrp)

Clark Aviation is now managed by AAG

[traveller93]

Thanks for the lead to the FB page.

Clark Aviation has always been owned by Alpha Aviation, no?

In any case, the old timers in the PPRuNe will remember the heated discussions about the many many problems and heavy delays they had to complete the MPL training. Are all the initial MPL pilots formed in Clark now employed?

Will these people resolve the issues and make the initiative a success?

Photos of Alpha Aviation Group | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=193205250773088&set=pu.185481661545447&type=1&theater)

[Bennyboy1]

Taras B is correct, Clark Aviation simply went through a re-branding exercise to align its name with the main investor, C & C Alpha based in the UK. It was determined by some marketing consultant (not exactly rocket science in this case) that the persistent bad press over the last 5 years was irreversible so the rebrand exercise was the only option left.

Another driver for the change occurred closer to home. The Regional Director for Clark, P Singh, is being investigated in Singapore for allegations for corruption / bribery. He was the principle director who set up Clark Aviation with the English guy and it appears (alleged) that substantial sums of money (student fees) were removed at his direction, resulting in insuffucient funds to purchase aircraft (remember the 18 month - 2 year delay for the Clark cadets before their flying training started).

Anyhow, to answer the original question, same decision makers leading Clark (now Alpha) Aviation.

[traveller93]

Thanks Taras B and Bennyboy1.

So, it seems that very little, or nothing, has changed.... But the new management only took over in December and, perhaps, they should be given a chance to show rapid results. "Rapid" being the key word!!!

A review of the various threads about Clark and Alpha indicate that there might be MPL pilots, formed by Clark, still without an airline to work for. I read that these pilots are from the first batches, back in 2005. Is this true?

If true, then I think it should be the new management's top priority to resolve this unfair situation first and start with a clean slate. After all, they paid for the MPL training in full and after being promised employment on a successful MPL course completion. Still reading the threads we can see that others, not airline aligned, have been given priority and are now flying for AA. This looks like discrimination and must be eradicated. We would like to know what is the Philippines' government intending to do about this since it gives the country a very bad image.

Regarding Benny's statement in respect of some corruption/bribery charges investigations, these are long overdue and it is hoped that they will lead to some international warrant for the arrest of the culprits. The destruction of peoples' lives cannot go unpunished.

The solutions are in the hands of the new AAG's management.

[captainbrad]

Dont know why my post didnt show up here. reposting!

Hi giords88,

Trained with AAG for FOT. True, they sent us to France cause the sim’s fully booked but they paid for all additional charges-VISA, airfare, accommodations. Heard nothin about previous trainees asked to pay for the addl fees for training abroad! We were there for the sessions on the full flight sim, rest was done in Clark. Checked my training footprint and I’m pretty sure the MCCs done on ALSIM 200 FNPT 2 bro. Got to know some of their cpl students too and theyre flight training was frustrating before but they’re flying was on track when I was there. They seemed to have ironed out their “flight line” problems. Saw their new students still in ppl and they seem to be pampering this guys. Being trained for Airphil. I came from another school myself but me and my batchmates agree that AAGs got the best facility, man. they also got a new full flight sim on the way. saw it all over their Fb page. If you asked me before I trained there would’ve said go to another school for cpl but go check them out. they got trainees for all the local airlines except for Pal of course

Good luck, man!

[Left Wing]

January 24, 2012, opening ceremony of the third batch of the Airline Pilot Training (APT) course of Alpha Aviation Group Philippines. These cadets are also to be trained for the A320 First Officer pilot requirement of client airline Airphil Express.

Opening Ceremony of 3rd Batch of Airline Pilot Training of AAG Ph | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.214282091998737.50002.185481661545447&type=1)

[traveller93]

Is AAG/Clark proposing the already formed, and waiting for a job, MPL pilots to AirPhil Express?

If not, why not?

[Bennyboy1]

Good to hear about a fresh batch of cadets starting at Alpha Aviation (rebranded Clark Aviation), unfortuneately a week prior to the celebration they wrote off another C172. The cadet managed to get himself out of the crumpled mess and is OK, however Clark Aviation have now lost three aircraft in the last 4 years, with just 2 C152's and 2 C172's left and no plans to replace, yet keep taking in more and more (tuition fees) Does this sound awfully familiar?

Assuming 1 aircraft is on the ground undergoing maintenance at any one time, Im not sure how 25-30 cadets on a flight line manage to share 3 aircraft and complete a program with an organisation that is notorious for taking tuition fees, promising the world and quite simply failing to deliver every time. I could have the maths wrong here but it looks like another training delay disaster looming at Clark. if you promise an airline x number of cadets in 1 year, what do you say to them 2 or 3 years later, as what happened with Clark Aviation (Alpha) and Cebu Pacific.

If there are cadets out there considerring Alpha, ask some very detailed questions about the training delivery schedule. Better still, check the reaction when you ask for some kind of reasonable financial penalty clause from Alpha if they dont deliver - just a normal, reasonable expectaion of completion. Remember its your money but watch the reaction you get.

[Left Wing]

the news is that... 6 C172 glass cockpit coming soon.... pls go and confirm this with the management at the AAG office:D:ok:

[Bennyboy1]

Great news, then including a reasonable expectation of completion' clause should be no problem, especially given that some of the current CPLIR students are coming up to 2 years and still waiting to complete a 190 hour program. The simlator was coming for the last 4 years, it wont be there until late this year. Cebu Pacific recieved a substantial compensation payout from Alpha Aviation for an MPL program that was promised within 18 months and took more than 3 years. Promises, promises, promises. bottom line, 3 aircraft divided into 30 cadets doesnt work.

Has anybody explained this to the cadets Left Wing. Does any of the current cadets actually have a reasonable training plan that tells them when they should finish, provided by management. Lets try the word no to both these most basic of questions questions

[Left Wing]

Taras B.. not change of heart; in aviation you dont think form your heart you act with known SOPs and related training and facts.

My comment was related to the fly by night flying schools who were giving Philippines aviation a very poor name. Where as guys like AAG, Omni, PAL school are going by the right process and are fully approved and audited by CAAP.

Bennyboy1.. pls feel free to go to the AAG office and get these questions clarified and feel free to grill the person make a list of questions you have and get them addressed, no point in crying on an anonymous form. best wishes mate.

[Bennyboy1]

Last count on this PPrune blog there were in excess of one thousand entries effectively criticising of the lousy management team at Alpha Aviation. Broken promises, corruption, tuition fees mis-appropriated, massive delays, indifference to the welfare of the cadets etc etc.
Is there anything, anything at all, that someone can post that can actually demonstrate that something has changed. New aircraft promised, but undeliverred. 30 cadets and 3 aircraft, fact. If there is something that can be verified that these new aircraft are coming, Bill of Sale, arrival date, anything other than just more fluff, it might add some credibility.

[captainbrad]

From what I heard, they were all endorsed to Cebu Pacific, Zest Air, Airphil. There are I think 6 MPL graduates who are unemployed, out of 100 MPL graduates. The foreigners were referred to Air Arabia but some of them turned that down, don’t know why. In all fairness to AAG, bumps in the road and all that, they produced almost 100 MPL graduates who did get into airlines. That’s saying something.

[bananaman2]

As an interested bystander, we've had similar debates in Europe about Employment success stories via certain flight schools, the point being...

Some schools have a very good track record of their students securing airline employment, but is it down to the student or the FTO?...

In the Philippines it's been an applicants market for quite some time (i'd say at least 18 months) rather than an employers (i.e where there are very few jobs and lots of candidiates, where the airline can pick and choose at will). For the locals at least anyway - no real expat recruitment. Are these students employed becuase they got an MPL through Alpha - I don't think so, they were employed because they got their licence and they probably did all the hard work in securing and passing the interview themselves. They could've got a job by going to any school, getting their licence and they're probably good pilots anyway - otherwise wouldn't have got onto an MPL program. By going to Alpha, they've spent 3 years, doing a 2 year course that they've paid top dollar for... this means 1 year more of expenses e.g accom, food etc. Lack of consistency - perhaps needing remedial training etc, not to mention lost time and stress.

There is a distinction to be made between training for initial CPL/IR issue and A320 training. Having seen the A320 operation, I don't see how a TRTO in their right mind can rely on leftover sim from the airlines (i.e Cebu/PAL) to conduct a business, promising to get people out in 10weeks I think the official line is (for Type rating only). Besides my A320 Type Rating in the US and everyone else's I know took 5-6 weeks (even with some short gaps for a break of 2/3 days) - so 10 weeks is already long. Obviously if you're lucky enough to be rushed through on the APX scheme, being sent to France to get the sims done, then things will seem a lot better. Additionally $800 per hour for FFS is ridiculous... most places i've seen are around $200 per hr cheaper. On the plus side once they get their new sim all to themselves, maybe things will be ok. Also the instructors I hear are very good.

My suggestion... go to Leading Edge, get your licence in a year or so for P1.5 Mill, then (reluctantly) do the Type Rating with Alpha once their new sim is up and running (as CAAP and at least Zest/APX require it).

[traveller93]

My question still is:

"Is AAG/Clark proposing the already formed, and waiting for a job, MPL pilots to AirPhil Express?

If not, why not?"


Captainbrad

Could you elaborate on what you say here?

"There are I think 6 MPL graduates who are unemployed....... The foreigners were referred to Air Arabia but some of them turned that down, don’t know why."

Lets see if you talk FACTS or BS.....

[bananaman2]

traveller93...

I have no firm facts to your question but i'd add a couple of comments:

The last advert, I saw of Alpha's glossy newspaper advertising campaign for the FOT program (they advertise in the local newspapers regularly) - stated that they had a relationship with an airline... so could offer a job/line training. However they also said candidiates would have to pass the independent assessment process with the airline.

Secondly assuming they are talking about Airphil, which I guess they are - without searching for the recruitment advert, i'm almost certain the prelisted requirements state, a degree, min 21 years old and at least 200hours.

Would have thought any MPL pilot should be able to achieve each of the above but should they not, then I guess Alpha would be in a position to do nothing.

In addition from what i've heard of Alpha, the more you complain, the worse it's gonna get for you!

[traveller93]

Thanks bananaman.

It is accepted that every airline has the right to have its own entry requirements. Airphil would not be different.

Nevertheless, Clark/AAG are not free from charges of malicious business practices and financial and personal damages to those that were promised guaranteed employment. That is the truth!!!

Regarding the blackmail you say is going on, well.... there is a time when even a mouse will fight the cat when there is nothing else to loose and the sheer survival depends on it. Remember that AAG is an international enterprise with several governments involved. I'm sure they don't want that kind of scandals....

As it is being said on this forum, there appears to be several individuals on the run after "cashing in" money paid by the cadets to AAG/Clark on fraudulent contracts.

AAG can resolve these issues rapidly and fairly. All it needs to do is provide the outstanding guys with valid CPL/IR type rated A320 licences and then they would have to go fend for themselves in the pilot's employment market place. After all, they already paid for a licence. No?

On the other hand, what is AAG/Clark doing towards convincing the Philippino carriers (i.e. Cebu, Zestair, Airphil, Seair, etc.) to accept their foreign MPLrs as done with the philippino nationals (even those who were not aligned)? After all, they were all trained to the same standards (CebuPac SOPs) and were issued with CAAP licences.

Are those poor souls facing a serious case of discrimination in a country that has millions of its own citizens labouring overseas?

I just don't understand why AAG is not doing it.....


But I still want an answer to this....

"Captainbrad

Could you elaborate on what you say here?

"There are I think 6 MPL graduates who are unemployed....... The foreigners were referred to Air Arabia but some of them turned that down, don’t know why."

Lets see if you talk FACTS or BS..... "

[honestpilot]

so u actually believe them?

Why not go to them and ask for confirmation via a contract. Make them sign a contract saying that they will have those 6 planes ready by the time that the promise.

The same thing was promised a AAG in Sharjah. A friend of mine was that the planes actually came 2 years after they were promised. The students actually got fed up of asking for the latest news on the planes!

I for one do not trust a word they say anymore!

[Bennyboy1]

If you are seriously considerring singing a training contract with these fools, take some ownership in the agreement. Its your money and your future. If Alpha - Clark Aviation or whatever they are calling themselves these days claim its all different to how it has been these last 5 years, the lies and corruption are a thing of the past, then say good, put in a clause that guarantees completing training with a reasonable but specified period of time with financial penalties if they fail to deliver.

If the (latest) round of promises about 6 new aircraft are true, shouldnt be a problem.

Remember, the demand for fresh CPLIR cadets from the airlines is cyclic so dont expect the same demand to be here in a year or two. Some of the PAL cadets waited 5-6 years before they were taken.

[coffindodger]

Now that CEB/ CAE have jumped into bed with each other and the new planned super complex which should be ready before the end of this year, could this be the nail in the coffin for CIA .

[Bennyboy1]

You make a good point Coffindodger, Cebu Pacific have shut the door on Alpha Aviation and their joint partnership with CAE at the Clark Airport will offer a much more comprhensive and professionally run Simulator training centre.

The only other major airline in the Philippines, PAL/Air Phil Express, have their A320 simulator up and running as of late last year as well so without any opportunity to sign a contract with a serious A320 operator in the country, how do fill 5-6,000 hours of sim time per year. How do you service the USD$7 million dolloar loan Alpha Aviation have now signed up to with the Maybank? Do you commit to a massive loan on ad-hoc Type Ratings that is notoriously cyclic?

Heres the clue, the AAG Regional Director, P Singh from Prescient Systems is also the CAE agent who effectively sold the simulator to the business that he is a Director of, and pocketed the commission. Due process, conflict of interest or business as usual.

AAG have just celebrated signing up their 30th CPLIR cadet and only have, on average, 2 Cessna 152's and 1 old C172 available for training use. How do you explain to cadets the 2 year plus duration for a 190 CPL/IR hour flight training program?

When read within the context of the previous 1,049 blogs and a picture foms as to where the stench of impropriety and corruption comes from.

[coffindodger]

Has any one any info or any pictures of this set up with CAE /CEB
its supposed to be close to the holiday inn hotel ??

[RP-C000]

First Solo Flights of AAG Ph 2nd APT Batch | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.223021904458089.51694.185481661545447&type=1)


:ok::ok:
:)

[traveller93]

This thread has gone very quiet. Does it mean that ALL is well in Clark Aviation and they have made good for the damages they caused?

Rumour says that there are new faces running the place. Are they any different from the bunch of crooks that have cruised by that golden mine?

What about the non-aligned MPLrs that were tricked by AAG to part with their money? Have they been refunded or otherwise given an alternate path to a pilot's career?

A few questions that we all would like to see AAG reply to.

[Taras B]

This thread has gone very quiet. Does it mean that ALL is well in Clark Aviation and they have made good for the damages they caused?

Rumour says that there are new faces running the place. Are they any different from the bunch of crooks that have cruised by that golden mine?

What about the non-aligned MPLrs that were tricked by AAG to part with their money? Have they been refunded or otherwise given an alternate path to a pilot's career?

A few questions that we all would like to see AAG reply to.


traveller93, your continual posts along the above lines of questioning are succinct, important and appreciated.

[RP-C000]

Air Arabia Graduation ceremony | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.230040947089518.53008.185481661545447&type=1)

[RP-C000]

Last edited by Taras B; 17th Feb 2012 at 15:16. Reason: Ummmm.... RP-C000, your shots like the one below in defense of AAG are anemic... you need to get some iron in your balls

sad to hear such language on a professional fourm... and sending me abusive private messages Mr Taras B thats not how a real airline pilot behaves.. :=

happy landiings to you in Florida.

[traveller93]

As can be seen in the few posts I've made in the various Clark Aviation threads over the last few years, my concern has always been, and is, with the problems faced by the non-aligned MPL pilots (who began as ab-initio cadets) to get the promised employment when AAG took their money. As the situation stands today, and until AAG makes good their promise, it all boils down to thievery upon those who trusted what they thought was a reputable enterprise.

Certainly AAG cannot deny making such promises..... (and don't come with the exhausted excuse of not having anything in writing).

Why is AAG not resolving the critical situation of the small number of their MPL pilots when the solution is easy and not costly?

Does it indicate that AAG is not in such a good financial situation as they want us to believe by their grandiose advertisement?

Alpha Aviation to put up US$ 10-M flight simulator in Clark - ZamboTimes (http://www.zambotimes.com/archives/40287-Alpha-Aviation-to-put-up-US-10-M-flight-simulator-in-Clark.html)

Quote"
Andrew McKenchie, chief training officer of Alpha Aviation Group said the training would be based on international standards.
"AAG Ph graduates have established successful careers in the aviation industry" McKenchie said. :mad:
Andrew Mclntosh of Alpha Aviation Group said AAG Ph provides highly discipline operating efficiencies to ensure "on-time and on-schedule" :eek: delivery of training services both to pilots and airlines."unquote (McKenchie should read McKechnie)

Will you two make good your own words?

It is not only the AAG name that is damaged but also the names of those individuals who have been or are in charge that will suffer irreparable harm. Aviation is a very small world.......

Come on AAG, do what is right to fix your c*ap!!!

[traveller93]

Is this article accurate or are there...... inaccuracies?

Alpha Aviation Group (AAG) to invest aggressively in Philippine aviation industry « Aviator Aero / Newswire (http://www.aviator.aero/newswire/index.php/2011/12/alpha-aviation-group-aag-to-invest-aggressively-in-philippine-aviation-industry/)


On the other hand, I would like to congratulate AAG for the prestigeous "2007 Frost & Sullivan Award for Strategy and Innovation" in commercial aviation training in Asia Pacific as mentioned in this article.:ok:

Press Releases (http://www.mechtronix.com/press-releases/detail/news/alpha-aviation-group-orders-mechtronix-jet-fnpt-ii-mcc/)

The problem is that, other than this article from Mechtronix, I cannot find any other reference to such award when I do a Google Search.:hmm: Anybody can help me?

2007 must have been an "outstanding year" for AAG..... I wonder what happened to cause the colapse?

[traveller93]

I see that Taras B has a BANNED sign on his name.

Could anyone tell me what happened?

[hervin1991]

Can somebody give me contact number of Clark Institute of Aviation? Im interested in taking up aeronautics. Is there a scholarship here? Thanks..

[RP-C000]

its now called Alpha Aviation Group pls contact
Ms. Emerald Banares <[email protected]>

Alpha Aviation Group | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/AlphaAvGrp)
:ok:

[aakhan]

cant understand why bohdank has been banned for speaking the truth

[Ridge Runner]

aakhan,

I guess because it is a very one-sided attack and not suitable for such a forum? We all have grievances about things, big or small, but the tirade that is evident in the thread is not acceptable. It may seem like gagging but all courts and hearings hear and consider both sides equally. Heated tempers can mean distorted stories that stick to conveying the message the plaintiff wants to getover, aside from the truth.

RR

[traveller93]

So.... we now have a "cruiser" in the midst of us and he begins by saying "AAG-Philippines is now run by professional managers from the UK and Philippines with many years of aviation experience. This team has put right the wrongs of the past and is now running a safe, efficient, ethical and high quality training organisation."

Wellll.... that's not what I hear and everybody knows in Angeles. There are outstanding serious issues, money taken on false promises, that should be erradicated from the world of aviation. Show us that I'm not talking the truth and I'll apologise.

Regarding these long standing issues being "one sided" as mentioned by another commentator, since when are they so? When did AAG or Clark Aviation refute any of the facts I've posted here for many a year?

As I've been insisting, there is an easy way out of the mess they got many people into. Why don't they do it?

There is no other way to call them other than crooks if they don't REALLY make right where they wronged.

[RP-C000]

Photos of Alpha Aviation Group | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=233280790098867&set=pu.185481661545447&type=1&theater)

AirPhil Express must doing something right to partner up with AAG Ph :ok: facts here for you to see..

SE Air comming soon too... :D

[LUGLOYD]

Reading your comments in this thread. Is there any chance that things have changed in AAG starting 2012? I'm planning to check the school out in Clark soon.

Hope you guys can enlighten me on this ?

[LUGLOYD]

Currently doing my PPL flying hours here in Cebu but planning to transfer to AAG to finish up to APT A320 rating. My goal is to work for the airline industry once Im done.

This thread is making me think twice but to see is to believe, I plan to visit the school first.

[RP-C000]

LUGLOYD pls go and visit the school and talk to the students there who are already enrolled and meet the management and see for your self, take your parents as well to ensure all documents are in order.

Photos of Alpha Aviation Group | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=233280723432207&set=pu.185481661545447&type=1&theater)

:ok:

AAG Ph is also getting a new A320 sim in Oct 2012 from CAE :D

[LUGLOYD]

Thank you RPC0000

[Taras B]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMuxuwYiI3M

[RP-C000]

Alpha Aviation Academy | Air Arabia (http://www.airarabia.com/crp_1/alpha-aviation-academy)

:D:ok:

[LUGLOYD]

Thank you TARAS B

[Bennyboy1]

Well Stratocruiser and RP-C000, you suggest we should forget the past and move forward. Good idea, except for those couple of nagging, pesky little questions that have popped up from time to time during the 5 years this post has been running, like;

Who audits and approves AAG as a training organisation each year?
Who defines the standard for training and checking at Alpha?
Who checks and issues Flight Instructor licences at Alpha?
Who checks and issues Ground Instructor licences at Alpha?
Who does the final check flight of all students at Alpha and what are the payment arrangements for this little number?
How many staff at AAG Philippines are ex-CAAP personnel at Alpha?

Still wondering, then read on....

CAAP failed to prepare the country for the FAA review
http://philippineairspace.********.c...y-for-faa.html (http://philippineairspace.********.com/2012/02/caap-failed-to-prepare-country-for-faa.html)

CAAP failed to prepare the country for the FAA review

Manila - The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has rated the Philippines anew as "FAILED" in its aviation compliance directive, and recommended that the country should remain further under heightened surveillance (CAT 2), according to initial reports submitted to Washington.

"It (the Philippines) failed to pass our technical review" says one of the members of the FAA team that went to the Philippines two weeks ago...

[RP-C000]

Bennyboy1 agreed AAG functions under CAAP which is a mess, however AAG has been "cleaned up" why not make a visit and see for your self. It is ISO 9001 certified.

There is a new Chief training officer ex BA 77 capt who oversees all std and compliances. :ok:

AirPhil has audited AAG and soon SE Air will do the same too.

[Atis777]

So Alpha has the inside track on CAE's ability to make money at Clark.:hmm: Somehow I think a NYSE and TSE listed company with an annual turnover of about CAN $ 1.7 Billion which has consistently made profits of about 10% of revenue for the last number of years is likely to have a better idea about making money than Alpha. Go and look at their financial accounts. Wow what a statement from an Alpha insider which has lost a ton of money in all their "academies".

[traveller93]

On the 26th January, the member Captainbrad wrote

“From what I heard, they were all endorsed to Cebu Pacific, Zest Air, Airphil. There are I think 6 MPL graduates who are unemployed, out of 100 MPL graduates. The foreigners were referred to Air Arabia but some of them turned that down, don’t know why. In all fairness to AAG, bumps in the road and all that, they produced almost 100 MPL graduates who did get into airlines. That’s saying something.”



And on the 27th I wrote

Captainbrad

"Could you elaborate on what you say here?

"There are I think 6 MPL graduates who are unemployed....... The foreigners were referred to Air Arabia but some of them turned that down, don’t know why."

Lets see if you talk FACTS or BS....."


Well….. Captainbrad, don’t you think you had enough time to get your “facts” yet?

Say something!!!! :rolleyes:

[Bagoongathipon]

thats 120 to 140 of us in different airlines! Ive lost count :)

Been a long time since i visited this thread. What I've learned the past 5years are..

1. Nothing's perfect
2. Someone has to make money
3. its seems a short cut.. but there's a lot of hardwork we did.
4. If you keep on complaining, nothings gonna happen to you.
5. People and companies promise you something then they will screw up, but if you want it badly, Dont let your fate be in the hands of other people. Go fix it yourself.
6. Flying is the best thing that happend to me. I hated how much time and money that was lost.. but, in the end.. It just made success so much sweeter!
7. People will rant, people will tell you to be cautious. people will pull you down. But never be afraid to make a mistake. Be afraid if you're not doing anything because of what the people around told you so.
8. Its your ability to correct your mistakes and the mistakes others has caused you that what is most important.

and lastly,
9. Once you got a license with an A320 rating in it, you're surely be hired.


While others has spent 5years bringing this company down, we've spent the first 3years trying to break it through and enjoying the past 2years reaping its benefits!

I remember, alot of people said that they will never fly with MPL pilots. Alot has changed, some till dont, some like it better flying with MPL. We will never please everyone. But one thing for sure, we got 600hours-2500hours on our belt.. plus its corresponding salary. :)


Enjoy and safe flight guys.

[RP-C000]

:D:ok: glad to see successful MPL pilots in the 320 flt deck

and the future pilots getting ready

Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.157350837719441.32161.100003335769302&type=1)

[traveller93]

Bagoongathipon

I remember you.....

Congrats for your successful career but how come you are forgetting those colleagues who were left behind after successfully obtaining their A320 rated MPL licences? Those who helped you during your training?:=

Your words:

"9. Once you got a license with an A320 rating in it, you're surely be hired."

Not at Clark....:ugh:

Again your words:

"I remember, alot of people said that they will never fly with MPL pilots. Alot has changed, some till dont, some like it better flying with MPL. We will never please everyone. But one thing for sure, we got 600hours-2500hours on our belt.. plus its corresponding salary.":D

I'm happy for you and all those who proved that the MPL is the way of the future:ok: and, if you care to remember, I always said that. The problem was, and still is, that Clark took some, then cadets, for a ride, pocketing their money and not fulfilling the promises made. Promises that you very well know were made.

Your feedback on the success you are experiencing is very much welcome, but shouldn't you be at least a bit concerned with your colleagues that are still chasing the dream you all shared?:mad:

Just put yourself in their position and..... think.

[Bagoongathipon]

First of all, those who helped me in my training? I know for a fact that everyone in my batch and above my batch are in the airline already. If theres some, it is because of his own undoing.

Secondly, how many are still without an airline? One guy from the last batch I knew, was released from IOE and started his productivity.

Thirdly, promises where made by clark av that wasnt fullfilled. But, what we did was made a way to meet halfway just to have a license then an airline to fly with. They failed miserably but we did we just have to find a way to get through. We did. Again, if someone who didnt get accepted in an airline, it is his own undoing. He could have done more than rely on the promises made.

I think there are tons of airlines who would not fullfill what was written in a contract or replace the whole contract to a new one. So, its part of the airline industry. Now, the question is, would you cry over that? Or do something about it? Its your choice.

I was in their position before.. even worse.. but we made it through. Im sure they can if they really want to. (if there are still MPLs in clark)

[Bagoongathipon]

set your facts straight.

The Indians are happily driving their brand new convertible cars in Sharjah already.

[Taras B]

.
http://www.shoe-tease.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/motorized-car-vehicle-shoe-shoetease-shoes1.jpg
.

[Bagoongathipon]

"Yes, but no thanks to Clark Aviation..."

bitter much?

[Bennyboy1]

'AAG Philippines is in rude health and providing excellent training and value for money for its current students...'

OK, well 2 months ago we all learnt that Alpha Aviation Academy Philippines lost a C172 in a crash. There are 4 aircraft remaining at Alpha to be shared between 30 plus CPL/IR students needing 200 plus hours flight time.

I raised some simple questions that you have remained silent on ever since. They are;

1. Assuming 1 aircraft is out of action at any one time due maintenance, that leaves 3 aircraft.
2. The rainy season, typhoons etc will further reduce this availability.
2. Has AAG factually advised current cadets how many years it will take to complete a 200 hour program with such a nonsensical allocation of resources? Is AAG providing this info to new cadets?

Your assertion that everything is on track at AAG is a joke. Tell me these facts are not correct, or will you continue to remain silent.

[captainbrad]

Whoa been missing action I see! Been very busy with IOE! I dont know about what I read about the FOT not being a success but we're all absorbed by the airlines, majority in less than a month! Low timers for the Limited First Officer position. The new AAG management worked their asses off to get the remaining guys jobs. Dont you wonder why there's only a handful of unemployed graduates while AAG was successful in referring other foreigners? I agree with what I read, it's probably their own doing already. Know there were lots of issues with this school before but the current numbers dont lie. AAG delivered to airphil's requirement, and is also referring successfully to zest air and cebu pacific! Even cebu pac wants what AAG has provided for airphil and approached AAG themselves to do the same for them.

[Bagoongathipon]

Taras B

To be honest, you got some wrong.
1. Not only bahrainis are in Air Arabia, the Indians are there as well.

2. The restrictive nature of MPL requires an airline to commit to a student even when they havent started it yet. Plus, the airlines are required to have the 12 TAGS as the transition of their training. Obviously, airlines doesnt want to commit their Airplanes for this one. When we were doing our TAGs in cyprus, it was just a way for us to get our license, but CAAP told that no more MPL applicants shall be accepted unless there will be an airline who will commit/sponsor them (including the TAGs).

3. With the shortage of pilots, the on going trend now is getting low timer 150hour CPL IR, have them type rated in A320 then proceed with IOE. It was a cheaper alternative. No 6months groundschool, 120 hours Level D simulator, 12 TAGs required. It just required 1 month groundschool, and 2 months simulator training. Thus, the MPL program proved to be a more expensive option. So the airlines resorted to getting those low timer CPL IR with A320 Type rating. But, the MPL program is still there, i think. Its just airlines would rather get the CPL IR A320 pilots.

4. Air Arabia had its own MPL program. Then, because of the troubles in egypt where they were supposed to open a base and which didnt push through, they suddenly had an excess of pilots. I think there was a proposal wherein Airphil will hire pilots from air arabia. Well, in this case, im not 100% sure.

5. I myself, had 3 years in Clark. It sucks that it happened where I could have finished it in 1 year and should have earned 2years more of income. But you are forgetting something.. before MPL, it takes 1500hours of flying time, plus a certain amount of multi engine time to grab a chance to be accepted in an airline. How long does it take? 1.5-10years or so. Depends on how lucky you are. So if you ask me 3years in Clark with 0 time compared to doing that 1500 hours? I'm definitely glad i took this route. Plus, I was trained for 120hours in A320 sim by experienced airline instructors. That gave me an edge. So in real terms, the MPL route at that time was more meaningful than taking 1500hours CPL IR. Ofcourse the 150 CPL IR Type rating is now the best option. Thats why you see very young first officers now.

6. I asked one of the MPL who just got an airline on how many MPL are still there in clark. He said 4. Who will be having their TAGs in jakarta. Thats what he said. I dont know. But, if thats the case, then the last MPL students you are talking about will be in the airline soon.

7. The foreign pilots? Who are they? Actually, I dont know. I just know about the portugese and singaporean. Maybe 3 more? But, with cebu pac able to hire expats, it just means that CAAP has relaxed its position on hiring Filipino pilots only in the Philippines. Maybe they can try this approach.

Im not biased for clark. They have done wrong things against me. But, my point is, instead of crying, me and my group tried to find a way to work it out.

So, Im replying just to correct the wrong information that is said here. Other than that, if I know its wrong. I wont bother trying to hide it.


3 years is definitely worth it trying to get your dream job. You can ask those from general aviation who've waited years and years for an opportunity in an airline. 3 years is a short time.

[traveller93]

Bagoongathipon

Are you really living in this world?

No offense meant but your post needs a dose of reality.

[chairwrecker]

the thread is still alive?? :}

[chairwrecker]

no firm customers, no partner airline, rotating GM's (at least 5 in the last 4 yrs and counting...), a fleet of C172s that are increasingly breaking down, BUT touting a new multi million dollar full flight sim supposed to come in 6 months' time? Can anyone guess what is wrong with this?:D

[Bennyboy1]

Um, lets try everything!
No partner airline and you lay a USD$8 million Maybank loan on Alpha Aviation Group - Philippines (Clark Aviation)???
Smell a rat a mile away - you would be right. The same rat from Prescient Syatems that sold the first CAE simulator to Cebu Pac, with a USD$360,000 bribe - kickback for the then advisor to the CEO (who was sacked some weeks later).

This sleaze bag is the regional Director of AAG (Clark Aviation) and makes a sweet commission on the sale of sims - regardless of having no business case. Simualtors have about 6000 hours available each year to sell - you dont buy one unless you have a solid anchor partner who has committed to at least 3000 hours.

AAG have zero committed hours from anyone but sleazebag has his commission.

Chairwrecker, youve got it right. The stench of corruption is alive and kisking at AAG Philippines. Ask their management who has committed to but 3000 hours, silence will be the stern reply

[RP-C000]

WHEN THE SIM ARRIVES IN SEPTEMBER 2012 SO WILL THE AIRLINES := :ok:

[Bennyboy1]

....and thats the business case right???

[aakhan]

Stratocruiser my friend was inducted into Alpha academy with compass score of just 34% which predicted failure in core flying which did happen. Who is responsible for waste of time and money of this cadet and the agony caused to his family. It is time the higher authorities are informed about how compass scores is being misused to induct cadets into academy.

[traveller93]

Stratocruiser377.....

....Gone are the bad old days of Clark Aviation. Let's look to the future and stop talking about the mishaps of the past that are no longer relevant to the great organisation that is Alpha Aviation Group (Philippines) today.

When did the ....bad old days.... go away? Please explain.

Is sweeping the *hit ....stop talking about the mishaps of the past..... under the carpet make the scene less smelly?

....that are no longer relevant to the great organisation that is Alpha Aviation Group (Philippines) today. Perhaps to AAG but certainly NOT to those negatively affected by them!!!!

[A_B_C]

Any heard or good feedback for All Asia Aviation Academy in IBA zambales.

This thread is so helpful and good thing mentioned all the bad and good feedback.

Just want t o ask any career for 31 yrs old as this will be my 2nd career with no flying experience.

My track is finish the CPL with IR and proceed the a320 rating. This is advise from my pilot friend.

My Pilot friend told me once acquired the a320 it will be automatically as 1st officer is this true?

Also none of the institue replied regarding the completed hours...
Do you mean once completed the pilot training course I will acquired 250 hours....

appreciate your advise should I proceed with my pilot dream or continue my current job which paid me 100,000 pesos a month? By the way the risk is big also as I ahve to sacrifice my savings which I earned from ME.

Thanks...

[traveller93]

Wellll..... Stratocruiser377. When will you reply to the challenge?


Stratocruiser377.....

Quote:
....Gone are the bad old days of Clark Aviation. Let's look to the future and stop talking about the mishaps of the past that are no longer relevant to the great organisation that is Alpha Aviation Group (Philippines) today.

When did the
Quote:
....bad old days....
go away? Please explain.

Is sweeping the *hit
Quote:
....stop talking about the mishaps of the past.....
under the carpet make the scene less smelly?

Quote:
....that are no longer relevant to the great organisation that is Alpha Aviation Group (Philippines) today.

Perhaps to AAG but certainly NOT to those negatively affected by them!!!!

[RP-C000]

you should go to AAG and see it for your self...why ask others. seeing is believing

[traveller93]

RP-C000

You're trying to whitewash the crap out of view.

Shame.....

[aakhan]

I think RP COOO you need to have a look at all AAG records and find out how many cadets have been offered a place with low compass scores. To offer a place to cadets with low compass scores who have no aptitude to become a pilot is very unethical and will be brought to the attention of higher authorities. Thus please do not tell us how this group is managed by professionally qualified people.

[aakhan]

Stratocruiser377
Well the spot light is on Alpha for inducting cadets with low compass scores into their MPL programme. EPST will soon be aware of it and Alpha will be exposed to the entire aviation community. Truth prevails

[RP-C000]

the Alpha Sharjah MPL program is not and cannot be ICAO-approved.. come taras B .. now you sound like sad old jaded man / woman..

to say the MPL is not approved is a joke.. so Capt Mohammed Director Flr Ops and Capt Yaser Head of Training of Air Arabia and members of GCAA would pose for public pictures for a course that was not approved ?? GROW UP.

Air Arabia Graduation ceremony | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.230040947089518.53008.185481661545447&type=3)

[RP-C000]

The above statement is factual and correct.... if so then prove it ? of course you std reply will be you here to create awareness...

[Taras B]

Does ICAO approve training organizations or training programmes?

ICAO does not endorse, recognize or approve training organizations or training programmes. The only exception to that rule is the Regional Training Centres delivering the ICAO Aviation Security Training Programme and ICAO Government Safety Inspectors Training Programme.


ICAO | FLS | FAQs (http://legacy.icao.int/icao/en/trivia/peltrgFAQ.htm#50)

[RP-C000]

so where does this say AAG UAE or PH is not approved for MPL.

Wall Photos | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=222541927839420&set=a.189939397766340.43660.185481661545447&type=1&theater)

here is proof of AAG UAE MPL graduates in Air Arabia uniforms.

Nothing personal mate.. just the facts..

[aakhan]

CR000 Well the spot light is on Alpha. They will be giving explainations to the entire aviation community why they induct cadets into their MPL programme with low compass scores. Now it is EPST turn to ask Alpha this vital question.

[aakhan]

Lets say EPST will be made aware of this. Stratocruiser could you expain
how should this tool be used by an Academy who claim that it is run by
professionals. Professionals have high ethical standards.

[aakhan]

Not a single cadet should be inducted with low compass scores. Nobody in the aviation industry will say that cadets can be inducted with low compass scores into an MLP PROGRAMME
Stato it seems you are one of the managers of Alpha who is always ready to support Alpha. Do you not have better things to do?
Just speak for yourself we look forward to Taras B posts. They are music
to my ears. May be you are scared of his posts because he speaks the truth. Truth prevails. Just wait time will tell.

[RP-C000]

Congratulations to Airphil Express trainees Wilberto Alcasabas, John Derek Vergara & Martin Que for passing their A320 Skill Test with AAG PH.

And more FOs of SE AIR under training with AAG PH :ok: :D

cut out of the AAG logo for the new CAE sim coming soon

Wall Photos | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=232067703553509&set=a.189939397766340.43660.185481661545447&type=1&theater)

[RP-C000]

Alpha Aviation Group Investing in Philippine Aviation Industry | Halldale (http://halldale.com/news/alpha-aviation-group-investing-philippine-aviation-industry)

[traveller93]

Stratocruiser377

There is no challenge to answer Traveller93. Bottom line is that 90+ MPL students have graduated from Clark and are flying A320's in the Philippines and UAE. The majority of the very few students that have not found jobs or were released early from training were all as a result of poor perfomance and lack of aptitude. Nothing more, nothing less. My sources tell me that the couple of non-Filipino students who have yet to find jobs will be employed very soon. Not sure why you continue to try to promote such a negative picture of Alpha, when the truth nowadays is so different. Keep up the great work Alpha and don't let the untruths told by people such as Traveller93 and TarasB get you down.

Show us ONE single post of mine where I was wrong since I began writing on PPRuNe about the plight of the AAG MPLrs.

Regarding the content of your post quoted above, lets see what happens, shall we? Hope you're right, but......

I'll be back until this sorry business is properly squared, no matter what you or others like you say.

[honestpilot]

Stratocruiser377

I have a BRILLIANT idea for you. Here it is!

You should think CAREFULLY before you open your mouth. It would do everyone here a HUGE favor!

Many students from Alpha aviation at SHJ have passed exams with either great help or by alpha ignoring their bad exam performance. Seriously if you are not going to be using the tool, which i must add that every aviation college in the world does, then why use it. U want to know more?

I sadly cannot proof this but lets hope that u believe me. I was quietly revising for my GCAA exams in one of the classrooms when all of a sudden I find 2 nervous students coming in for their pre-selection exams. I spoke to both and they both said that their maths was weak. I said it is k do not worry you will not find it that hard!

Anyways i was proved to be wrong. One of the staff (i am not mentioning his name) came into the room with the exams and when the students faced difficulties he would just help them to get the answers. He would not say that question 1 is 15 he would use an example and hope that the students would then get it right.

Now are all exams done like that? If so in the future when I have an accident I will say 'Sorry, captain but you were not there next to me to guide me how to fly well'

I am sorry but ALL exams in the pilot training should be done as professionally as possible. That means that you should remove all the cheating that happens. I as a student know that not all can be removed but atleast make an effort. People get help in their interview and pre-selection exams, GCAA exams and then they go for flying. I have been in alpha for 8 months or so and EVERYONE apart from 1 student that has gone for the exams has passed. Seriously is that good? It shows that there are NO standards. My friend went to Oxford in the UK for the mpl and failed. He said that there were 6 students in hit batch and NO ONE was offered a place. Seriously, alpha should not bother with the pre selection exams. It is just pointless. They should have a banner saying "Do you have 450k DHS to lose, If so Alpha Aviation is the place for you"

:)

[aakhan]

I agree with everyword that honest pilot has written. There is no point
in having a pre selection exam if you are helping the cadets to cheat and inducting cadets into the programme with low compass scores. Strato i think it is about time that Alpha is exposed to the entire aviation community. Think about it. Your game is up. I too endorse the banner If you want to lose DH 440,000 come and join Alpha. Meet an aviation academy with no standards.

[aakhan]

Strato will Alpha return Honest Pilots money not a chance. Which world are you living in. Please think twice before you speak.You seem to be speaking just for the sake of speaking and you statement has no logic. Will they also return the one year lost because he was lured into joining an academy run by non professionals. That is the sole reason he and all of us are here to make cadets aware before they gamble their money.

[honestpilot]

Stratocruiser377

Seriously man in what world do you live in?!

You should know that if i leave alpha I will not get any money back. I signed such a contract! If alpha was to give me back Dhs 300k then yes I would leave!

[RP-C000]

honestpilot... how about focusing on your studies and becoming a successful pilot with Air Arabia and flying for them as an FO....

Stop moaning and hit the books ! seek help of the instructors !...

the new HOT Capt Peder is a very open guy if there are any issues talk to him in private and he will help :ok:

[honestpilot]

excuse me dude but who the hell are you to tell me to study?!

I have finished my ground school and avged 90% so i know my stuff.

I am only pointing out the flaws with alpha. And like i have said several times before I am not talking to the heads of Alpha. There is no point. When i first mentioned a problem i was complete ignored and told lies about improvements were made. 6 months later none thing happened!

[RP-C000]

"dude" ... if you have scored 90% then why worry your place with Air Arabia is secure and you should be helping your fellow students.

So if you have not even tried speaking to the new team and just continue to hide behind a key board and cry nothing will help you...

Go and talk to Carsten the new sales guy, he is a young guy like and will help you out.

[honestpilot]

hmm k u are so very very wrong

one of the students who was removed avged 85% in his exams and he did not mind helping his friends. When he came to the flight line he got removed due to his poor performance.

So please do not explain to me that my job is secure. If this was the case alpha would not have made us sign a one sided document. They can remove us when they want and for whatever reason.

There is unlimited proof that alpha has f***ed up. So why should i trust them. I am the one counting myself very stupid that i did not go to the UK for flying. One of the reasons was because getting a visa takes forever and is difficult!

anyways back to bed to try and sleep. Damn my insomnia! :(

[aakhan]

Strato and RP C000 remember Alphas game is up and cadets can fight back for their rights. No point in going on and on like a broken record and use this energy to salvage your academys reputation what ever is left. Be fair to cadets then you dont need to come and defend Alpha.
Truth is apparent so save your energy. As i said spot light is on Alpha.

[traveller93]

Quote:
Stratocruiser377

There is no challenge to answer Traveller93. Bottom line is that 90+ MPL students have graduated from Clark and are flying A320's in the Philippines and UAE. The majority of the very few students that have not found jobs or were released early from training were all as a result of poor perfomance and lack of aptitude. Nothing more, nothing less. My sources tell me that the couple of non-Filipino students who have yet to find jobs will be employed very soon. Not sure why you continue to try to promote such a negative picture of Alpha, when the truth nowadays is so different. Keep up the great work Alpha and don't let the untruths told by people such as Traveller93 and TarasB get you down.


Show us ONE single post of mine where I was wrong since I began writing on PPRuNe about the plight of the AAG MPLrs.

Regarding the content of your post quoted above, lets see what happens, shall we? Hope you're right, but......

I'll be back until this sorry business is properly squared, no matter what you or others like you say.

Well.... Strato..... What else do you have to say? More HOT AIR coming out of your BS mouth?

This thread will not die.

[RP-C000]

Stratocruiser377 now see what you have done ... Taras B & aakhan will be awake all night trying to plan their "response" :p:8

[stormiscoming]

@stratocruiser
The remaining (non-Filipino) cadet will be employed within the month.
Considering your position with Alpha Aviation, this is a bold statement. Could you elaborate for the masses.
I happen to know what these Foreign cadets, that were promised employment by Clark Aviation when they enrolled, have gone through until now to keep their dream alive. No thanks to Clark Aviation and Alpha Group.
What do you know that they don't. As far as I know they haven't been communicated with any update on employment.

[RP-C000]

stormiscoming v soon the information will be on the AAG website :D

[RP-C000]

Batch 7 of AAG UAE (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.289493977810881.66612.185481661545447&type=1)

Alpha Aviation Group UAE's 7th batch of MPL students completed their Core Flying Phase at the Australian Airline Pilot Academy (AAPA) in Wagga Wagga, New South Wales :D:ok:

[RP-C000]

25 April 2012
More pilots for SEAir from AAG Philippines

Eight ambitious students commenced Airbus 320 type training today at AAG Ph’s Clark academy. These current flyers from SEAir in the Philippines come from a range of turboprop aircraft within the airline’s fleet and are now stepping up to the jet fleet. The placement of this group is a further testament to the faith shown by the airlines of the country in AAG and its experienced team.

SEAir is expanding its fleet through the lease of further Airbus 320 aircraft to add to its current fleet of two.:ok:

[RP-C000]

get your facts mate ! :=

....but unfortunately, SEAir doesn't trust its MPL cadets to Clark (Alpha) Aviation and is sending them instead to CAE/Oxford Aviation... SE air has no MPL programme parent company Tiger has an MPL with STAA

...currently, SEAir is simply sending some pilots over to Clark (not the Alpha Academy per se) to use the Cebu Pacific A320 sim to get a type rating. Clark (Alpha) Aviation has to send their own (unsponsored) A320 cadets over to France... no A320 sim time for them! Cebu Pacific does not lease the sim to SE Air as they are competitors; AAG sim instructors train SE Air crew at the 320 sim in BKK until AAG's own 320 sim arrives...

...things are never quite what RP-C000 claims them to be! and these are the facts

[RP-C000]

Taras B.. Its clear you have ZERO knowledge about TRTO training... Go back to school young boy..

AAG provides the CAAP approved instructors and the type rating course; a simulator is just a machine; does not matter if you use BKK or Oxford; the key is in the quality of the sim instructors and the course-ware all provided by AAG.

Hence training is provided by AAG. :ok:

[stormiscoming]

@RPC000
You are absolutely correct that CA/AAG provides approved instructors by the CAAP for the type rating course on the A320. And that its just a machine.
That's about as factual and correct as you will get in that matter.
TARAS B couldn't have explained the rest what you have said better than anyone else.
As I recall CA/AAG had to send their cadets to Airbus in France to do their A320 type rating not to long ago. To their surprise of course as CA/AAG did not explain to them initially that they wouldn't be able to do their type rating in Clark. As I recall also Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong have been utilized by CA/AAG to do the type rating training also.
Seems like the company is everywhere except where its suppose to be. Of course this does not only pump the price up considerably, it also always has additional unforeseen costs for the cadet to incur...
As for the quality you are stating a lot can be said about that at this moment. Especially with the new HOT and hes SOP's, but that's a completely different topic.
So RPC000, instead of exerting your efforts and energy here with a futile pissing match (and no you cant do it like the big boys) why not focus your concerns to all those cadets that have not made it into an airline yet but have trusted the promises made by CA/AAG.
Only then can CA/AAG re-branding strategy really work for you and the company.

[RP-C000]

so are you saying as a local Filipino...that the AAG instructors who are senior capts ex PAL and ex Philippines Air Force are of poor quality and the Airbus JOC course that is approved by EASA & CAAP is useless..

again a fact that you have ZERO knowledge about TRTO operations...

[RP-C000]

why not focus your concerns to all those cadets that have not made it into an airline yet but have trusted the promises made by CA/AAG.

pls ask the guys who did not make on the efforts made by AAG to get them an interview and thats all AAG can offer after that its the airlines call to hire a certain individual or not. AAG can force the airline now can they.

The new HOT Richard is highly experienced airline TRE his SOP's are in line with future airline training AAG cadets would need to be ready for.

AAG UAE & AAG Ph offers professional pilot course this is very different from other schools in Philippines who offer a generic CPL/IR course.

Ask the 50 cadets who were successfully employed by Air Phil

[honestpilot]

nice post taras

but u should give them another clue

it is a 9 letter word and ends with a n!

So if u guessed it now how did Alpha get to this stage if they are improving like RP keeps telling us?!

[aakhan]

Excellent post Taras. You can write so well you are too good for RPC000 and Stratocruiser and they cant cope with you. Well so what have the two of you decided? Henceforth you all will conduct your pre screening according to EPST recommendations. Lets say you all have been forced to do that. Then which new method will you adopt to lure cadets into the programme. Think quickly think you next plan

[aakhan]

Strato you really dont want to give up? Agreed it is a competency based
programme thus there is a stringent need to put emphasis on pre screening which you all dont. All cadets are taken who apply even if they have a very low compass score. Then they are issued a letter stating that they have passed the aptitude test and when they face problems with flying Alpha entrenches them and pockets their money. Alpha is to blame if you do not screen cadets for a competency based programme. You are really exposing the ills of Alpha through your own posts. You are making yourself a laughing stock

[bad3ip420]

the comments in this thread is quite disturbing. I graduated BSLegal Management in a reputable school last year and have been working in the marketing dept of a large telecomm company since then. Flying was my childhood dream so I decided to pursue it.

I went to Clark Alpha Aviation Group last week and they presented me a couple of documents. They said if I want to be an airline pilot, it is recommended that I take their Airline Pilot Training (APT) course. It costs roughly 3.4m+ Php100,000 of training materials.

The course outline is as follows:

Ground school: 14 weeks
Flight traning
Core Flying: 200 hours
Flight and Nav procedures trainer: 30 hours
A320 Multi-Crew Coop
Crew Resource Mngmt: 3 days
Fixed Base Simulator MCC sessions: 32 hours
A320 Ground School
Computer based training: 14 days
A320 Integrated Procedures trainer: 40 hours
Weight/Balance/Human Performance training: 2 days
Flight planning training
A320 Jet Orientation Training: 16 hours
A320 Advance training: 28 hours
A320 Line oriented flight training: 4 hours
A320 skill test: 2 hours
A320 zero flight time training: 2 hours

The total is basic flight training: 230 hours; Advanced Flight training (a320 simulator): 124 hours


After a couple of questions here and there, AAG said that once I finish the course, I will be provide with a Commercial Pilot License with Instrument rating and A320 Type Rating.

I'm going to take an aptitude exam next week so I was really hopeful until I saw the posts here. Now, I'm starting to think of going to OMNI for my flight schooling.

Note: I was just wondering what's the difference between AAG's APT package and the MPL course?

[RP-C000]

Yes, I am a journalist - you got that right. :D:D:D how interesting ! a journalist who sits at home and monitors Pprune all day and collects clips from youtube :zzz::zzz::zzz:

[honestpilot]

do u also not do the same thing? You also sit in-front of ur pc trying to explain to us how awesome Alpha is. Difference is you get paid to do it. Taras does not get paid to write his point of view.

[RP-C000]

yes coz its my job...:ok::ok::D

Taras does not get paid to write his point of view. thank you for admitting it his point of view and NOT THE FACTS

[honestpilot]

they are facts my friend. I can vouch for them all.

We both know that alpha is probation and we also know that the flying school was closed BEFORE the students who were flying in alpha could finish their training. They had just a few hours left. Some only had ONE hour left so please do not give a lame excuse by saying that it was voluntarily closed! No flying shool would do that since they are the ones losing money and the students lost time! They had to wait for a few weeks until the got their license to fly! They could not go solo before that!

That much trouble and u STILL want to say that u closed it voluntarily!


Now when they went to Australia they had to waste 2 months or so! And why ? because alpha cannot maintain its flying safety to a required standard.

My piece of advice is this. All flying school makes mistakes. Admit them, correct them and then move on and improve on it. Do not try and deny it. People here are not stupid so do not treat them like one!

[stormiscoming]

Stratocruiser I will say this for the final time. Of those foreign (non-Filipino) students that passed the course, all bar one have employment. The reason that they have employment with the likes of Air Arabia is due to the great lengths that AAG went to to secure them jobs. Yes there were mistakes made by the original Clark management team, but the support of the Board of Directors and the new management team has been unwavering. The one remaining foreign MPL holder will join the happy ranks of employed A320 pilots imminently. Combined with the near 100% success rate of employed Filipino graduates, what was initially a flawed programme has turned into a wonderful success story. As an independant in this ongoing debate, I take my hat off to AAG and the ethical and unwavering support that they have provided to their customers.
I'm glad that you will be saying it for the last time because hearing your lies and miss information is like listening to a broken tape recorder. Your repetition in defense of what Alpha group has done in the past becomes tiring, especially as you claim to be an independent. An independent would probably focus hes criticism, opinion or defense on the MPL licence and not on an organisation that is until now run by... well lets just say people that are less than honest and keep it at that :ugh:
TarasB could'nt have said it better again.
The Jordanians brother actually had to threaten Air Arabia that he would resign if he's younger brother, cadet of Clark Av, wasn't excepted. That's how far it had to go.
Also TarasB didn't get a chance to mention the Filipino students that are waiting for Clark Av to finish their course. Some for over 2 years sitting idly because of Clark Av still cant seem to organize their :mad:

There's no point in trying to defend the mistakes and errors that have been done. If anything Alpha should try to learn and correct these errors because there is potential for the Clark Av/ Alpha Av to have success. But not without these unsolved problems. A simple re-branding of the name does not suffice to hide what has been done and is still ongoing.
No pilot would ever want to invest in their own carrier knowingly that until now there are cadets who are been cheated by Clark Av/ Alpha Av and Alpha Group.

So why not focus your strengths in assisting Clark Av/Alpha Av in finding all the cadets still waiting, for jobs instead both in Sharjah and Philippines also.
Its the only way you and the rest of Alpha group will ever be correct. And that's when both facilities might be able to move forward.

RPC 000
I don't know what to say to you really. Your rebuttals are so childish and off topic, that I'm sure everyone is starting to think your mental ability is of a 12 year old. Again stick to wearing high heels because you cant do it like the big boy's.

So again in closing lets hope Alpha group in general focuses more on their abilities and professionalism in fulfilling what everyone has paid for both in Sharjah and the Philippines.

Stay safe

[honestpilot]

Facts are that the current Alpha management are experienced, professional aviation managers with the highest standards of safety awareness and ethical standards. Taras B (and your few buddies), keep spouting out all the rubbish, half truths and years old information that you want

haha

what a joke! Professional?! The news I am giving is recent! No more than 2-3 months old! So do not give us that excuse!

[RP-C000]

377 you should not waste your energy on these guys... let them attack us personally from their comfort of their keyboards...

[aakhan]

Facts are that the current Alpha management are experienced, professional aviation managers with the highest standards of safety awareness and ethical standards. Taras B (and your few buddies), keep spouting out all the rubbish, half truths and years old information that you want, but please realise that nobody is listening any more (or nobody that counts anyway)


Stratocruiser the fact is nothing has changed and cadets are cheated and inducted into your training by your so called experienced professional aviation managers when they have no aptitude to fly. Can you tell me which other aviation academy will take cadets with low compass scores. Think we should expose you all in Singapore in the next aviation conference. What do you say? You are one of the sponsors isnt it a good idea.
As written earlier we welcome Taras B posts and he speaks the truth and thus you are very very scared of him. No cadet will join you academy after reading all the negative posts in this thread. Have you all paused to think what aviation community must be thinking of ALPHA

[honestpilot]

RP, as usual u simply never answer my questions. I wonder why? Is it because what I am saying is true?

[x_feed]

Endless Argument, since 2008..


The Best way to have a rating, Do it in a "Hard" way, Start from SPL, PPL, CPL(IR,ME), then ATPL, and build hours in "Real" Aircraft.

[traveller93]

RP and STRATO

RP.... Have you noticed that STRATO removed his last post? If you have, aren't you wondering why?

To both of you I have a question and a piece of advice:

1 - Have you ever seen the inside of a jail house? Yes, that's were you will be heading for abiding in the scam.

2 - Start thinking about protecting your own backsides (otherwise the jailbirds will take care of it) by coming clean.

Lying is a sin and being an accomplice in a scam is a crime. Both carry a sentence.

Listen to what x_feed says. This thread has been going on since 2008 and will not go away until the wrongs are made right.

[stormiscoming]

To Stratocruiser
You are so funny STORMISCOMING. I'm sure that RP looks very fetching in high heels even if he is only 12.
If you are into 12 year old boys in high heels, then...well lets just say you need a little help and leave it at that.:ugh::=:ugh:
Whatever your sexual fetish orientation is please keep it out of PPrune. This is a very respectable forum and no one here wants to know what turns you on. :=:=

[traveller93]

Strato & RP

Its been a week since you last posted something here.....

Something such as the AAG/Clark good news ghost posts that, by magic, simply disappear. But you must be used to those disappearing tricks, such is the practice you have with the cadets money....

Don't disappoint us, give us some clown act.

[RP-C000]

:D:D thanks for your guidance.

[traveller93]

Taras B

It is significant that there was no challenge to what you wrote:

"I call Andrew McIntosh by the name of Scrooge because he promotes wealthy C&C Alpha Aviation Group's usurious relationships with cadets who are of little means. These relationships, along with a lack of charity and shabby treatment of the company employees in Clark, are his Scrooge-like qualities. The only presents I would ask of Andrew is to employ the remaining foreign MPL cadets from Clark Aviation or compensate them; give the wrongly-accepted/entrenched kid in Sharjah a full refund; and finish off the last batch of Pinoy MPL cadets already. They all deserve Merry Christmases after all these years.

By now it should be clear to anyone reading this thread that some of the Alpha Aviation Group managers, past and present, operate by a Lie & Deny strategy. It has worked very well in the past for these managers, and in their own minds, they think it is still working. It is certainly less expensive to lie and deny, than to spend and mend."

RP and STRATOS, always so quick to deny the evidences posted here, have not dared say a word......

The truth hurts and those who keep the scam alive should think twice, at least, about the consequences to themselves.

[traveller93]

The world is full of "good guys"......

The questions is: When will they resolve the long lasting problems created by AAG/Clark Aviation Academy to unsuspecting cadets?

[traveller93]

STRATO and RP are noted for their silence from "AAG/Clark Good News".

Does this mean that all is well and all the remaining issues have been resolved?

Oh welllll...... HOPE is the last thing to die......

[traveller93]

A question for the AAG management

Is IATA being given accurate and truthful information regarding the Sharjah and Clark Aviation performances?


For all those that have been fighting for fairness

To help understand the question, this is the "IATA Training and Qualification Initiative (ITQI)" report and where you can find the information given to IATA in respect of those two training centres. Find the report that IATA has for the APATS in Singapore here:

http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/aircraft_operations/itqi/Documents/ITQI_Report_Winter%202012.pdf

To better see what I'm talking about, right click on any page and "Save as" to your computer.

Open the PDF file and go to page 12, Fig. 7 "IATA Global MPL Tracker".

Zoom to 600% (on my computer) and analyse the data for ALPHA AVIATION / CLARK and SHARJAH.

Since IATA officials would not suck up the numbers from their thumbs, the logical conclusion is that AAG was the entity providing the data.


Do the numbers in the report agree with what the REALITY is and has been at both training centres?

If they are not REAL numbers, doesn't this mean that an international organization such as IATA has been lied to and provided with false data?

Since IATA works closely with ICAO, and both rely on truthful information from the FTOs that provide MPL training, doesn't this constitute a crime of false information and abuse of trust?


I'm sure that the IATA and ICAO representations in APATS would appreciate some personal presentation from those who have been fleeced by the continuing scam.


.

[RP-C000]

not quite ! just busy with work... AAG Philippines new A320 sim is ready for TR courses new C172 a/c coming soon.

AAG UAE new MPL course starting soon... so busy with work... happy landings all.:ok:

[daddyzippo]

I need a little help here... can you please tell me in whether Alpha Clark schools are worth it? I am an Indian with PPL from Serbia,CPL did from Philippines and got it converted in India in 2009. My experience in Philippines was very bad after Serbia, leaving the flying part as my instructors were great. But the management sucked big time, lied and never kept there promise not only with me but with every student from my time and i guess before me also. I want to fly any aircraft from C152 to A320. Please if to join these schools, will i get stuck? will they keep there word? Can i get a job in Philippines if i do 320 training with out marrying a local girl?

[RP-C000]

https://www.facebook.com/AlphaAvGrp

daddyzippo you should contact the school and ask them questions. BTW I work for AAG in Clark.

[traveller93]

Strato says "....you will get great training and fair treatment from Alpha's team in the Philippines. It is by far the most professional FTO in the Philippines....."

I dismal attempt at becoming a joker. Stick to being a clown..... The sad one, that is.

[yano]

Can i get a job in Philippines if i do 320 training with out marrying a local girl? 29th Aug 2012 22:40

Lately, an airline has been accepting non-locals who had FOT, CPL holder with only 200+ TT and not even married to a Filipina.

As long as you pass the interview , SIM Evaluation, and secure a working visa.

[RP-C000]

no loss still here !..was busy with the event... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=336333773126901&set=a.336332173127061.80321.185481661545447&type=1&theater :D

[traveller93]

You would like to change de subject, wouldn't you, strato?

Lets rather get back to the business at hand and give us your solution to the plight of the unemployed Clark Aviation, AAG, MPL pilots. They were simply abandoned after being skinned clean of their money.

Until the day AAG resolves this matter, count on me to bring it up here.

Resolve that issue and I'll disappear for good.

[traveller93]

strato..... Just because you are an idiot, don't try to pull the wool over everybody's eyes. It is clear that you are the one who is telling lies and they have been unmasked here.

There are more than one Clark Aviation MPL pilots (they are not cadets anymore) unemployed and AAG is not doing anything about their situation. I'm not talking about all those cadets who were dropped along the way and not given any refund or compensation.

What is at stake here is the fact that some paid and were issued MPL licences and AAG has not done anything to find them the promised jobs, be it in the Philippines, UAE or anywhere else in the world.

Now you come with a story about "bar one who has a rather unusual set of circumstances"..... what can be such a thing? The only "unusual set of circumstances" can only be really bad luck for getting involved with such a bunch of crooks in AAG and believing their lies.

Spell it out if you have a drop of courage and I dare you to come out clean. No names no pack drill, just tell everybody what "unusual set of circumstances" could lead to the hardship of so many MPL pilots, or just the one you are referring to.

And yes, let the world pass their judgement as to who is telling the truth. Your own statements are a revelation that there are unfinished business that AAG has to resolve.

Until the last one.

[RP-C000]

traveller93 no one is stopping you pls fix an appointment with the GM at AAG Philippines and solve the open issues no point in crying on Pprune.

[RP-C000]

Taras B you were invited to meet AAG management at APATS ; why did you not show up... Our staff saw you walking around but you refused to come to AAG booth and talk to our management.

So pls stop this childish behaviour; you are grown man not a 20 yr old kid.

Other than a few who were rejected by the airlines on poor attitude all MPL cadets are flying with various airlines. The final 3 who were struggling to pass have been given extra training and have completed the base training ready to be employed.

All the past problems of Clark are behind us now the new AAG management team has done awsme job.

Zest Air & SE Air pilots will train with AAG on the new A320 simulator and for the cadets the advantage will be they will get to meet with real airline capts while in the campus who come to train on the simulator; this is an advantage no school in all of Philippines can offer.:D

Zest Air teams up with AAG for pilot training | Inquirer Business (http://business.inquirer.net/78344/zest-air-teams-up-with-aag-for-pilot-training)


“With AAG, we have the perfect training partner, right on our doorstep in the Philippines, to deliver an innovative training program of the highest international and safety standards,” said Zest Airways chief executive adviser Brian Hogan said.

[jetfire11]

I'm sorry Stratocruiser but there is truth to what Taras B is saying. I have a cousin who graduated under AAG's CPL program with an A320 rating but is still unemployed. He says that a bunch of them are hard pressed on looking for jobs and are kinda down because it's been months since they graduated.

I myself am an airman and wanted to take a type rating in AAG. But based on what my cousin told me I'm having second thoughts. :hmm:

[RP-C000]

I have a cousin who graduated under AAG's CPL program with an A320 rating but is still unemployed. .. no one guarantees a job mate ! its demand and supply and how the cadet performs at the airlines interview AAG does not control it... just like applying for any job..

Even if you go train with Cebu they will also reject you if cant pass the interviews... NO GUARANTEED JOBS

[stormiscoming]

TARAS B, how many times do you need to be told, there are no unemployed Filipino cadets who completed the programme. There is only one unemployed (European) cadet who completed the programme, and there are reasons behind this. All other cadets are fully employed. Only those who failed the course do not have jobs, and that would be the same whether they took MPL or CPL. Also, please remember that I am not AAG Management, merely an observer of the BS that you portray and somebody who needs to put your lies straight.

Just had to copy/paste this,as we all know that AAG/CA's affiliates here on pprune have a tendency to either delete or edit their posts when they get smacked with the truth in their faces.
And again it seems like Strato, once again, got Jupiter's "C*$#@ in A#$*".

my previous posts are able to show the hardships that everyone endured while a cadet at AAG's CA facility. And the continuous hardship and difficulties that many still endure both professionally, mentally, financially and most importantly time lost because of the way AAG conducted their "professional" business. Its sad to say and see, that AAG still cannot put right what they have wronged.
those who know the MPL'ers that still require a job, promised by AAG, and that includes the European, know all to well the real reasons behind this. No fault was or has ever been done by them .Not to mention the ones who did their CPL and A320 type rating, who were told that Airphil Express would take them in. Too the point that the SOP's that they were taught were Airphil's.
AGG has a lot to correct and answer for, before they might, and i do mean might, have some sort of successful future.

@ Jetfire. Hope things will work out for your cousin soon and I'll be able to see him at my companies FL OP's looking at hes next flight. keep us posted on how things work out.

@strato. SOP's means Standard Operating Procedures. Just in case your as stupid as you are ignorant and blind.

[traveller93]

My previous post directed at strato.....

strato..... Just because you are an idiot, don't try to pull the wool over everybody's eyes. It is clear that you are the one who is telling lies and they have been unmasked here.

There are more than one Clark Aviation MPL pilots (they are not cadets anymore) unemployed and AAG is not doing anything about their situation. I'm not talking about all those cadets who were dropped along the way and not given any refund or compensation.

What is at stake here is the fact that some paid and were issued MPL licences and AAG has not done anything to find them the promised jobs, be it in the Philippines, UAE or anywhere else in the world.

Now you come with a story about "bar one who has a rather unusual set of circumstances"..... what can be such a thing? The only "unusual set of circumstances" can only be really bad luck for getting involved with such a bunch of crooks in AAG and believing their lies.

Spell it out if you have a drop of courage and I dare you to come out clean. No names no pack drill, just tell everybody what "unusual set of circumstances" could lead to the hardship of so many MPL pilots, or just the one you are referring to.

And yes, let the world pass their judgement as to who is telling the truth. Your own statements are a revelation that there are unfinished business that AAG has to resolve.

Until the last one.

The absence of a reply is strong evidence that strato is using this forum to slander the victims of the ongoing AAG scam.

Further proof is his latest coment:
....."TARAS B, how many times do you need to be told, there are no unemployed Filipino cadets who completed the programme. There is only one unemployed (European) cadet who completed the programme, and there are reasons behind this......


From "unusual set of circumstances" to "there are reasons behind this"......

Neither the "circumstances" or "reasons" were clarified by the author of those statements which, until so done, constitute slander.

Also, Strato's repeated afirmation that he "is not AAG management" falls very short of the truth. He spins far too much for an outsider "spares salesman".......

The old tactic of blaming the victims will not succeed. A lie repeated a thousand times is still a lie.

Again I challenge strato, or any others, to come out clean and spell out the "circumstances" and/or "reasons" that led/are leading to the hardship of those skinned by AAG.

I'm sure there are a lot of interested ears waiting.....

[stormiscoming]

Strato
are you on the pipe or the drink when your posting here.. I mean seriously now, you keep contradicting yourself post to post.

Right now your saying there's no MPL'ers without a job and just a post ago you gave an example of one MPL'er who was still unemployed...
One thing is for sure, AAG has a lot of outstanding obligations still in hand, and a lot more broken dreams and broken promises in its pockets.

Do a little less of whatever it is your on and maybe people might take you a little bit more seriously. maybe...:D:D

[traveller93]

Strato says:

Traveller93, for the last time, no one got skinned, there are no hardships and the only people out of work are those that failed the course. Sad, but it happens. AAG has no obligations to anybody. All those that it had obligations to were found jobs in the Philippines and Sharjah. Traveller, you are like a broken record. Put up or shut up. Name names if you truly have evidence.

Strato said:

"TARAS B, how many times do you need to be told, there are no unemployed Filipino cadets who completed the programme. There is only one unemployed (European) cadet who completed the programme, and there are reasons behind this......

and strato said:

All who completed the course are employed (bar one who has a rather unusual set of circumstances)


So.... who is trying to spin it?

Since you twice mentioned that there is still one MPL AAG graduated pilot unemployed, it is up to you to name him and spell out the "....reasons behind it...." and the "....rather unusual set of circumstances...." that made AAG falter on their commitments.

Come on, have some guts and spill it out.

So far, and for a number of years, I've concentrated on the plight of the AAG MPL cadets, and then pilots, calling for some sense of justice and fair play from the responsible people. To no avail. The last post from the "spares salesman" is clear of the intention to rob those who, unwittingly, fell for AAG's rosy promises.

Pure thievery.

No, I will not give up the just fight and you just raised the issue to a level you will find unbearable.....

[jetfire11]

Strato said:

All other cadets are fully employed. Only those who failed the course do not have jobs, and that would be the same whether they took MPL or CPL.

I was only referring to this comment which is false and was only stating that a part of what Taras B is saying is true. That's it. I never said CPL program had an alignment. And I wouldn't be commenting about CPL out of the blue if it wasn't part of the conversation, which it is.

@ stormiscoming: sure, man. I'm sure he'll be ecstatic to inform me when he gets hired.

[traveller93]

Taras B.

You are not wasting your time when you state the truth as it is.

Truth that should be known by all that are still thinking to dish out their cash on a company that has no ethics and was run (and is until they sort out all the injustices of the past) by crooks.

As seen in this thread, they attempt to conceal their criminal actions by trying to put the blame on the victims by slander. A typical move of crooked minds.

Keep up the good work!!!!

[traveller93]

A contradiction in terms....

.....there are no broken dreams, no ripped off students and no MPL'ers without jobs (except one)......

Says the AAG manager on duty.

Despite challenges to spell out the "reasons" for the continuing unemployment of the referenced MPL pilot, strato insists in the attempt to deviate the attentions from that real drama.

Until he comes out with a public proof explanation, he is the only slanderer in this forum.

Slander is the weapon of a coward..... but his day will come!!!

[RP-C000]

traveller93 & Taras B you both have been invited many times to the AAG Philippines office yet you chose to behave like 2 yr olds and hide behind this forum.. Event at APATS you chose to hide rather than have a meeting like a professional.

Pls stop moaning and crying its evident its just the 2 of you on this forum with no real agenda.

Once again you are invited to the AAGP office; pls come and clear up your issues. :ok:;)

[fine]

:{Nasaan paul bico at pete quinlan???? Wala ang recent photos sa Clark Aviation cadets and instructors??

[traveller93]

Welllll....... it seems that the "lone rider" Strato has taken leave of absence from this forum.

Perhaps gathering strength to defend the indefensible and continue to whitewash the sod past of AAG.

Just remember that AAG has abandoned some of those that paid hard cash for a promised dream and ended with nothing in their hands.

Crooks!!!!

[coffindodger]

They have a big push on for staff now a certain web site has lots of jobs for Instructors / Managers for Clark now.

[ZFT]

The Alpha Aviation Group sim in Clark is not certified for A320 checkrides.What is it certified for because the CAAP usually certifies a specific operators use of the device for initial and recurrent training?

[ZFT]

Computer and other bugs further delayed the proper operation of the sim

This is a new simulator? Not a good reflection on the manufacturer either.

[stormiscoming]

FYI
Taras B and many others have done an amazing job in showing the World how deceitful Clark Av, now known as alpha academy, have been operating in the past and even now. And how their marketing and unprofessional operating tactics have led many people to spend large fortunes for a dream that AAG promised but had no interest in fulfilling.
But how can AAG move forward without correcting the mistakes they have done and inflicted in the past?
Everyone can see that AAG is investing large amounts of capital to grow in the industry, but again how much success can a company have with such a negative image, that and how they acquired the money to invest...
Its true there has been a large success rate in employment with the MPL students in the local airlines. I know because I am one of them, but it was dumb luck that the local pilot market suddenly got a high demand for FO's and AAG had a ton of students who had concluded their MPL course and were waiting for employment. Dumb luck, thats all it was and that's why when i visit my friends who are still waiting to get employment and even base training I cant help but express discontent to the horrible situation that they are in because of what was promised by AAG... if not for that sudden need for pilots, myself and many others would be in the same situation.

So just because there is a positive update STRATO with AAG, it doesn't mean Taras B or anyone else for that matter, are liars.

[ZFT]

The brand new AAG A320 Simulator is fully EASA Certified, Level D. The only one in the region incidentally.

Not strictly true. The A320 in Bangkok is both JAA and CAAP Level D (and others) approved.

[traveller93]

Taras B.

Just a little correction. There are unemployed AAG MPL pilots that enrolled in early 2007, paid in full upfront and almost 6 years of living expenses.
Like thieves in the night, AAG skinned them of everything they and their families had but, worst of all, they robbed them of a dream.

Previous managers, and there are plenty of them, opened businesses in other countries. Savings from the salaries? Naaaaa.... don't you believe it.


STRATO.....

You resurfaced with the wrong side up..... you're talking through your *rse and the pestilence that comes out stinks.

We, you and me, have some unfinished business.....

Remember, and I know you do, what you said about the already qualified foreign MPLrs situation?

I challenged you to spell out the details and you, cowardly as you are, tried to skirt the issue by accusing me and everybody as liars.

Are you so dumb that you don't understand that IT WAS YOU who made the affirmations about those skinned poor souls?

I know you are a manager, and not a small one, in AAG. Do you think you can get away unscathed with your devious schemes?

Think about it......

[traveller93]

The "grandiose" plans that trapped many

CAT Magazine - 2006/2 (http://cat.texterity.com/cat/2006-2?pg=36#pg36)

Alpha Aviation's Philippine fillip.(Features)(Alpha Aviation Group inducts its first group of cadets in Philippines)(Brief article) | HighBeam Business: Arrive Prepared (http://business.highbeam.com/411058/article-1G1-160171882/alpha-aviation-philippine-fillip)

.....and so many others.

[traveller93]

TRUTH is a foreign word for Strato and he wouldn't understand it even if it hit him in the face!!!

He knows that he is covering up to all the AAG wrongdoings of the past and is trying to whitewash the issues with the present attempts to present a clean image. An impossible task until justice is done to all that suffered, and are suffering, spiritually and financially to this day.

As a senior manager in AAG, Strato's continued attempts to pass the responsibility to those who paid hard cash for a service and got nothing, clearly shows him as part of the gang of thieves they are. There is no other word to classify them.

The thieving began with the first CEO and continues to this day.

[traveller93]

...........but certainly there appears to be a far more credible organisation and management in Clark these days.....

To gain credibility, the new management MUST right the past wrongs and compensate those facing financial hardships because of AAG's false promises.

TarasB is correct in what he states. Some have worthless MPL licences, despite having dished out the full amount upfront, and AAG is doing absolutely nothing to give them an alternate pathway to find employment in the industry.

Until then.....