Clark Institute of Aviation

[traveller93]

rq4globalhawk

I'm glad to see we're getting a good, civilized and professional discussion for a change. I'll get back to you gentlemen as soon as I get more info from my MPL grapevine.


Any news? Please don't tell us that the grapevine has run dry.

betpump5

The latter route into the airlines is something that happens in every single country for non-sponsored pilots. That is my authority. It is how the majority of pilots I fly with everyday got to the airlines - the other method is via the military or if they were on a specific airline sponsorship scheme. This is also based on my being an airline pilot of 10 years compared to you being a cadet for 1 or 2 years ok?

My point is that with a basic MPL license, you can not apply to any general aviation jobs without doing further training to satisfy certain requirements. That was all I was pertaining to in my post.

Your statements go in full agreement with my last post regarding the licence conversions by the individual authorities.

In the frame of the actual CIA MPL self-sponsored cadets situation, and the ICAO guidelines for licence conversion, what do you think should be CIA's recourse to resolve the very real drama of those poor souls?

We get a lot of hot air in this thread but, besides repeated empty "assurances" that all is well, no solution is in sight. At least we have not seen a single news release that any self-sponsored pilot cadets have been employed.

What is CIA waiting for?

And time is passing....:ugh:

[rq4globalhawk]

Any news? Please don't tell us that the grapevine has run dry.



Sorry for the late reply but I've been busy flying.

No, my grapevine is still active, but I don't want to quote speculative info.

Right now there's a glimmer of hope for a few (very few) self-sponsored Clark Aviation students. My source does not want me to elaborate - they've had false starts before.

[traveller93]

rq4globalhawk

Sorry for the late reply but I've been busy flying.

All is well and only the "pretender pilot" doesn't understand what it takes to be a professional airman.

No, my grapevine is still active, but I don't want to quote speculative info.

Right now there's a glimmer of hope for a few (very few) self-sponsored Clark Aviation students. My source does not want me to elaborate - they've had false starts before.

You are correct. Rather wait a little longer than to subject the poor guys to another disapointment. They had enough of those over the last few years. But, again, time is running...

Is it true that CIA has been granted authority to run CPL/IR/TR training? If I remember correctly, this thread's blabber has mentioned something about that and, if true, perhaps it could be a good way out of the bottleneck.

To keep the current situation as is, is not a solution.

[slatch]

Had a Cebu airbus flying over the house (Angeles) doing multiple patterns the other day, any chance more cadets making progress....

[Jin75]

Lolo:

Just saw online that STATA will be starting a flight school including MPL in Australia...it appears to be an unsponsored MPL scheme. Apply August (Batch 1) or November (Batch 2) for a program starting sometime in 2010. Also I heard that there will be changes in the way the MPL is offered. I wonder if the two are connected...


I do not want to second-guess what you are trying to imply. Elaborate?

[vtango]

Cebu cadets are making good progress with nearly 2 dozen of them having completed their base checks and are in various stages of their IOE. Another dozen or so Cebu cadets are scheduled for their Base checks in the coming weeks weather permitting.

Its the self sponsored cadets that are getting the stick. :mad:

[betpump5]

Lolo,

I must say that I am surprised at your U-Turn on the subject (wasn't you the guy proclaiming how good the MPL was even if you are just a self-sponsored cadet) but I am little more surprised at you trying to find "a solution to self sponsored cadets".

Why does a solution have to be found? CIA, just like any FTO in the world, does not and did not promise a job to self-sponsored cadets - regardless if they offer the fATPL or an MPL.

The self-sponsored MPL cadets have been approved by ICAO - i.e their MPL is perfectly valid. Therefore they are cadet pilots and have joined the other tens of thousand cadet pilots in the world looking for employment. Thats it! Finish. Tapos Na!

There are 2 solutions here which I have mentioned previously. Either play the waiting game to see if a carrier is prepared to take on MPL self-sponsored cadets or spend more money on ratings that will allow you to fly General Aviation so you can build hours. It is that simple and these are the only 2 options available.

Why the need for brainstorming? No one owes the self sponsored MPL cadets any favours, just like no one owes any fATPL cadets any favours.

[betpump5]

Lolo,

I must say that I am surprised at your U-Turn on the subject (wasn't you the guy proclaiming how good the MPL was even if you are just a self-sponsored cadet) but I am little more surprised at you trying to find "a solution to self sponsored cadets".

Why does a solution have to be found? CIA, just like any FTO in the world, does not and did not promise a job to self-sponsored cadets - regardless if they offer the fATPL or an MPL.

The self-sponsored MPL cadets have been approved by ICAO - i.e their MPL is perfectly valid. Therefore they are cadet pilots and have joined the other tens of thousand cadet pilots in the world looking for employment. Thats it! Finish. Tapos Na!

There are 2 solutions here which I have mentioned previously. Either play the waiting game to see if a carrier is prepared to take on MPL self-sponsored cadets or spend more money on ratings that will allow you to fly General Aviation so you can build hours. It is that simple and these are the only 2 options available.

Why the need for brainstorming? No one owes the self sponsored MPL cadets any favours, just like no one owes any fATPL cadets any favours.


I am so amazed at the lack of research and understanding about how cadets get that elusive first job. People seem to think (or have been brainwashed) that they have an exclusive right to a RHS on a shiny jet - just because they are Type Rated on an A320 or because CIA management told them the MPL is fantastic! It does not work like that - regardless of whether you are training at Oxford Air Academy or CIA. Getting the license - regardless if it is MPL or fATPL is just the beginning. It does NOT guarantee a job.

Let me summarise everything now.

This thread is now dead. Any arguments/discussions that were posted here are now obsolete.

1. CIA have stopped offering the self-sponsored MPL and have reverted back to the CPL/ ME IR.

2. CIA will continue with the Cebu sponsored MPL (just like the MPL should be offered i.e affiliated with an airline)

3. Self sponsored MPL cadets who have finished/ are finishing have a 100% approved and valid flying licence. They now join the thousands of cadets worldwide looking for the job. The only difference is they can not build hours without paying for more ratings.

The end.

[jamestaylor]

"Amen" let it all rest is peace.................

[betpump5]

Allow me to apologise. I didn’t mean in my post that the thread should be finished. I was just making a point that for self-sponsored cadets, there is nothing more to say on the subject. But of course I would be very interested to see what happens to them in the next few months.

Lolo, do you know why there are not that many students posting here? Is Pprune a banned website in the college? Have students been told that if they divulge any information, they would be in serious trouble? Or is it simply a case that they prefer to stay focused on their training without the knowledge that their flight training is under huge scrutiny.

I must say though that I am very much disappointed and saddened at these turn of events and I hope that prospective cadets took some value from the posts I wrote for the last 3 months and really weighed up their risks. Unfortunately, I have been too late for the self sponsored cadets who walked blindly into this course. My personal opinion is that there is very little hope for them and let me educate people as to why:

Even if the self-sponsored MPL cadets have a few hundred thousand pesos left to get more training to fly GA and build hours, their only hope is still the Philippines where after 1500 hours ( a very long time in Philippine General Aviation) they are eligible to apply for PAL or Cebu. The 2 ab-intio scholarships in the world at present (Etihad and Cathay-both of which are currently closed) are reluctant to take on cadets who have already have a license – although it can happen but would you really want to do everything again for a year and a half? Other schemes around the world like KLM, Lufthansa, Singapore are only open to nationals.

Unless these self sponsored cadets are super rich, I honestly fear for them. I just hope that these guys had a back-up plan and were aware of the risks before they were brainwashed by the lovely advert in Manila Bulletin telling them they will be in an A320 within 12 months. I honestly hope they will be ok.

[traveller93]

Before commenting on the latest inputs on this thread, I would like to bring up this interesting interview that might bring some light to the conversation:

On course | Transportation | Supply Chain Interviews | ArabianSupplyChain.com (http://www.arabiansupplychain.com/article-1987-on_course/)

Isn't it strange that the interviewee does not mention Clark Aviation as a provider of the MPL?


"Where else in the world is this course available?

The only other place I know of is Alteon, Boeing's commercial aviation training unit in Brisbane, Australia. They gradusted 12 MPL cadets last November, who now fly for Air China."


And they belong to the same group.

I wonder why.... Any ideas, anyone?

[traveller93]

ST (Singapore Technologies Engineering), through its Prescient branch, is one of the Alpha Aviation Group partners, as seen in the graphic below.

http://www.alphagroup.aero/uploads/File/NEW%20shareholders%20ppt%20%28feb%2007%29.pdf

It appears that CIA lost the confidence of ST (Singapore Government owned) to the point where it chose to have another of its branches to directly compete with CIA.

Given that, and assuming that ST will assume its quota part of the responsibility, what will be the solution to the insulting situation being suffered by the self-sponsored cadets? Will they get the just reward to their investment (fully paid for) towards their future as airline pilots?

[betpump5]

My gut feeling is that the self-sponsored students will be taken care of somehow. ICAO knows what's going on.

Lolo - there you go again?? What do you mean taken care of? No one owes them anything!

Just because you have a fATPL or an MPL, it does not mean you are entitled to a job. I honestly do not understand you Lolo? Do you think ICAO will approach airlines and say, there are 40 selfsponsored MPL cadets in the Philippines, please give them a job.

They won't be taken care of. Just like the other thousands of fATPLs out there!

Please be more clear in your discussions.

[traveller93]

betpump5....

You seem to be misinformed. The self-sponsored cadets have not yet completed the MPL training. They are still missing the 12 rotations and that is the problem CIA is now (still) desperately trying to resolve. Therefore the SOS for a brain storming session, in the PPRun.....

You have mentioned that CIA is now instructing CPL/IR. Are you sure??

If CIA has been approved to do CPL/IR instruction, why don't they just bridge the self-sponsored cadets from the MPL to the CPL/IR/TR?

What a bunch of incompetents!!!! Not to mention crooks that deserve to be jailed for running such a scheme.

[betpump5]

It would appear so for which I apologise.

My posts were related to those that had finished their self-sponsored MPL. I was under the impression that there were at least a few self-sponsored MPLs that had finished.

Can someone please bring some clarity to this thread please. Lets take the first batch that started CIA in January 2007. I.e 2 years and 9 months ago!

Were they all 50% sponsored by Cebu Pacific?

Were there any in the Jan/Feb/march batch that were self-sponsored?

If there were any self-sponsored cadets in the early batches, are you telling me they are still not finished? What are they doing? just sitting around?

I am completely lost. Self Sponsored cadets have paid their fee up to and including the 12 rotations in an A320. So why is CIA stopping this final part?

Lolo/Traveller, brainstorming by us three will not solve this problem because this seems to be purely a CIA decision. They obviously have reasons why they they are refusing to complete the MPL cadets 12 rotations.

Traveller, are you sure about this. Previous posts by Lolo suggested that the self-sponsored MPL cadets have valid licenses and are "ICAO Approved". this is why I assumed some self-sponsored cadets have finished.

Anyway, in response to your question, yes there is nothing wrong with CIA bridging the gap between MPL (incomplete) and CPL/ ME IR. But because things are so complicated, there may be law suits because CIA may request more funds from self-sponsored MPL cadets who now wish to embark on the CPL IR, but those cadets will say that CIA should pay because of all the trouble they caused.

This is very very messy. Can someone please shed light. Lolo- who are you? A cadet (if so self sponsored?) or are you just an interested observer with some connections to CIA.

I am very confused.

They are still missing the 12 rotations and that is the problem CIA is now (still) desperately trying to resolve.

What is there to resolve. If self sponsored cadets have paid for their full MPL training TR, then apart from there being a lack of aircraft, why aren't CIA providing the final part?

[jetfire11]

Good day to all!

Newbie here. Although i just joined, i have been reading in this forum for quite some time now. I have been wanting to be a pilot but have failed to even start (tried to enter PLC this year but failed to make the final cut). I'll try again next year. But while waiting for it i researched on other possibilities of entering this career. One school i came across was CIA. I have mixed info about the school and the license being offered.

I was wondering if anybody could give me some advice about entering CIA. Should i wait an try my luck for PLC? Oh yeah, i talked to a PAL F.O. a while back and he asked about the MPL scheme to his colleagues. He told me the feedback wasn't good (btw, he came from PAF). Anyway, CIA sent me an email about their current situation. Hope this helps the discussion...

"Good day. I hope that this mail finds you well.

I am delighted to inform you that Clark Aviation is now offering two pilot training programs, (1) Multi-crew Pilot License (MPL), and (2) Commercial Pilot License with Instrument Rating (CPL/IR). The cost of completing the CPL/IR, with an opportunity of shifting to MPL is approximately USD40, 000. If you intend to do strictly CPL/IR only, cost is USD 34,500, subject to change depending on the prevailing fuel price. Please take note that our CPL/IR incorporates an extensive 6 months ground school that is Airline Transport Pilot License (ATPL) ground school standard. We are uniquely positioned as the only institution that offers this kind of ground school program in the Philippines .

On the other hand, the MPL program is designed so that graduates are qualified to fly as First Officer in a specific type of commercial aircraft. At Clark Aviation, we focus on the A320 type of aircraft. In other words, our MPL graduates are qualified to fly as FO for A320 commercial aircrafts. This program will cost USD90, 000 and we require that cadets should have an alignment with an airline before we accept them. Alignment essentially means that an airline will provide base training of 12 landings and take-offs and eventual employment. Should there be no alignment possible, we can train cadets under the CPL/IR program with an option to proceed to A320 type rating.
Attached is a paper on who we are and what we do.

I would be delighted to discuss any questions you might have.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards"

[traveller93]

My posts were related to those that had finished their self-sponsored MPL. I was under the impression that there were at least a few self-sponsored MPLs that had finished.

You are indeed under the wrong impression. No self-sponsored cadets have finished the MPL. If they were, be sure that the news would be all over the world.

Can someone please bring some clarity to this thread please. Lets take the first batch that started CIA in January 2007. I.e 2 years and 9 months ago!

Were they all 50% sponsored by Cebu Pacific?

Were there any in the Jan/Feb/march batch that were self-sponsored?

If there were any self-sponsored cadets in the early batches, are you telling me they are still not finished? What are they doing? just sitting around?


See answer above. Only the 5J fully sponsored cadets are finishing the MPL.

I am completely lost. Self Sponsored cadets have paid their fee up to and including the 12 rotations in an A320. So why is CIA stopping this final part?

Only the CIA so-called management can answer your questions. That is why I'm saying that the present management must be, somehow, in the scam to fleece the poor souls out of their cash.

Lolo/Traveller, brainstorming by us three will not solve this problem because this seems to be purely a CIA decision. They obviously have reasons why they they are refusing to complete the MPL cadets 12 rotations.

You are right. This is really a CIA management problem and only they can explain why the 12 rotations are still outstanding for the self-sponsored cadets. Weren't we all told that ICAO was resolving all the problems?

Traveller, are you sure about this. Previous posts by Lolo suggested that the self-sponsored MPL cadets have valid licenses and are "ICAO Approved". this is why I assumed some self-sponsored cadets have finished.

Please don't tell me you still believe anything that clown writes here....

Anyway, in response to your question, yes there is nothing wrong with CIA bridging the gap between MPL (incomplete) and CPL/ ME IR. But because things are so complicated, there may be law suits because CIA may request more funds from self-sponsored MPL cadets who now wish to embark on the CPL IR, but those cadets will say that CIA should pay because of all the trouble they caused.

The bridging was only a way I thought would assist all involved to resolve the problem by providing the cadets with a valid licence. CIA would be ill advised to try to get any more cash out of anybody....

This is very very messy. Can someone please shed light. Lolo- who are you? A cadet (if so self sponsored?) or are you just an interested observer with some connections to CIA.

If I'm correct, you would be very surprised to know who this character is....

I am very confused.

Quote:
They are still missing the 12 rotations and that is the problem CIA is now (still) desperately trying to resolve.
What is there to resolve. If self sponsored cadets have paid for their full MPL training TR, then apart from there being a lack of aircraft, why aren't CIA providing the final part?


It only shows how incompetent they are. They can not even organize a piss-up in a brewery....

Sometimes I wonder if they are really aviation people.

[Aerocadet]

Guys,

I just want to confirm if this is true. A friend of mine told me that his friend is already flying for 5J as a FO?

PRESENTLY!

Is it true? Any updates guys? :ok:

[vtango]

Aerocadet...partly true! Coz the 20 odd cadets with 5J are technically LFOs (Limited First Officers) ;) They become FOs only after completing a certain IOE stage. The first few are already flying (with a full fledged FO sitting on the jump seat as the safety pilot). Some are in various stages of their OBS flights. There are a bunch of cadets awaiting Base checks.
Weather and non availability of check pilots from CAAP are delaying the Base checks for the past few weeks.

[betpump5]

If I'm correct, you would be very surprised to know who this character is....Traveller,

My private message inbox is always open. Perhaps you may like to give me some information that obviously I am unaware of.

P.S - Looking through Lolo's post history, it seems he only has 3 posts and I'm sure there were a lot more. Any reason why he has gone back and deleted them?

[Aerocadet]

@vtango

I see! Thanks for info. This friend of mine is very impressed with the MPL program and is planning to do the same.. Trying to convince me to join him.

I still prefer to go through PPL, CPL, IR, instructor ratings.. For personal reasons, I would want to enjoy what I think is the lighter side of being an aviator. Taking your friends and family in a cross-country flight.. Enjoying the scenery etc. Hehehe! Being in an airline or corporate is a long term goal.

Anyway, cadets fly a C-172SP for the core flying right?

[traveller93]

Traveller,

My private message inbox is always open. Perhaps you may like to give me some information that obviously I am unaware of.

P.S - Looking through Lolo's post history, it seems he only has 3 posts and I'm sure there were a lot more. Any reason why he has gone back and deleted them?


Betpumps

No need for any PMs on this subject. All that is needed is some attention to that guy's attempts to confuse the issue with "information" that should, normally, only be in the realm of the gods (management).

He certainly is not a cadet but rather a low level manager in CIA that is following "his master's voice" to protect what he thinks is a good source of income and continue to fleece the cadets.

Remember his savage reactions to any criticisms about the way CIA management was handling the self-sponsored cadets situation? And he dares come to this forum looking for some brainstorm.....

The self-deletion of his posts are also proof of his crooked intentions.

It is a real pitty that CIA has let a golden opportunity to make a killing in the world of MPL training go by.

No wonder the other Alpha Aviation organizations don't want to be associated with them.

They are as good as the conman that initiated CIA....

[Aerocadet]

@reallyawannabepilot

Actually, in last year's Hot Air Balloon Festival, I had a chance to talk with those on duty in the CIA booth. I asked if there is market for MPL cadets aside from 5J. They showed me a copy of some proposal paper (not sure) or list of POSSIBLE clients with Zest and SEAir on it. They'll be acquiring more A320s in the future as I know.

:}

[jetfire11]

Is the new CPL/IR program offered by CIA good for starting a career in aviation?

[HarmonRabb]

I heard Zest is thinking about hiring at least 5 self sponsored cadets. There could be hope..

I wouldn't count on that..... firstly Zest is in a lot of trouble (freeze hiring), second, the guys in the MA60 are lining up for the A320 (pay for training) and the old Dash 7 crews are also waiting and other CPL applicants from outside not to mention the ex-Air Phil guys trained in the A320 already plus ex-PAL who i believe has also applied are also lined up. So, maybe in 2012.... when there is a lull...:zzz:

[AvEnthusiast]

Anhanh, Guys! about MPL and what else is going there I can't tell you anything. But Clark is going to provide you with 2 scrap c-152 initially maybe in 1 or 2 weeks and maybe after that with 2 more. But anyway even if they are scrap, but they are good for flying. And maybe you see some new indian instructors there as well.
Wish you all the best.

[9ball]

SATURDAY, OCTOBER 10, 2009

Well, the saga of Clark Aviation continues. I have remained quiet about this embarrassment to the Philippine Aviation Community up until now.
Apart from having promised over 100 cadets an MPL License and rides in an A320 to complete their license, there are still many cadets who are a long way from seeing any kind of license. In fact, I know of a few cadets who are paying out of their own pockets to get their Commercial/IR at another Philippine Aviation School, just to show that they have something for their more than three year association with Clark Aviation.

Clark Aviation has a reputation for not paying their bills, not delivering on the courses they promise, they treat their staff abysmally and are incapable of showing any kind of professionalism towards their day to day operations, the aviation community and their own cadets.

The following photos speak for them selves, the alphas being loaded up onto a low bed to be hauled away to some hidden location. More than likely, the useful bits will be removed and sold and there will only be useless hulks remaining ..

A warning to all considering purchase of these aircraft, they were imported tax and duty free and have been subject to continuous parts removal by CA who refused to buy the correct spare parts.

Anyone who knows anything about aircraft will shudder at the way these aircraft were loaded ...

Let the photos speak for themselves .. (Taken before lunch today .. These are of the third aircraft, the first one nearly fell off whilst loading it on the low bed, unfortunately I did not get a photo of it)

(Oh, I forgot to mention, they took the wings off yesterday whilst it was raining, they were left sitting in the rain on the ground)








http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/aviationpros/jVzxH30eA1q5ms0NeauAVvBHa2icpVS4SaiCIfE9cEKO2CwhfoRAvYYWj1oC/CIMG4257.jpg.scaled.500.jpg

http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/aviationpros/YtRcbe1ve2mPi98LJKgGviZ6Jx5FxJY9M45Ez8g7kfmDgimjGZPRGgC6Fnd1/CIMG4263.jpg.scaled.500.jpg

http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/aviationpros/ObbRms8tTTsgpD64Z2q82nqUcB55xereUut7GkODHwyIeQi4CrMuH2WItUpU/CIMG4269.jpg.scaled.500.jpg

[vtango]

Hey 9ball....instead of conspiracy theories why dont you use your "common sense"
I dont know who had the brain wave to buy the alpha 120s in the first place...but as it is the manufacturer went bankrupt even before they could deliver the ordered aircrafts. Its a no brainer that getting spares for those aircrafts are not easy!

So you have a camera and hang out at omni airfield....duhhhhh but you still did not notice that those 3 aircrafts have not been flying for a long while now? since you are not conencted with Clark Av now, you obviously dont know where those aircraft are :}.

...ughh you good in math? coz i am yet to meet anybody who has been a cadet for more than 3 years. The school started in Jan/Feb 2007. Except for the non sponsored cadets the first 20 odd are already flying with 5J! half a dozen are awaiting base check and another dozen are waiting to be endorsed to 5J! Whats your problem? You are NOT a non sponsored cadet at the school!

Blame the founding fathers of CA who are lavishly living a nice life elsewhere after screwing around with the lives of the poor cadets! They are the ones that took in those non sponsored cadets in the first place against all regulations! One of them is happily instructing at the KL AA sim centre now.

[garfieldslaststand]

Hey c'mon Vtango we all know that 9 ball has not got any common sense. He sits in his secret ops center there "jacking off" every day with a huge chip on his shoulder about getting fired from CA. :ugh:Does anyone know what else he really does inside there?

[JV126]

I think you people ( vtango and garfieldslaststand ) have mistaken 9ball for someone else..... also, grow up !!!!..... there is no need to slander people (old and new) in this thread. Our concerns as cadets far outweighs any of your bickering and character assasination so if you don't have anything nice to say about someone then shut the hell up because this is not helping.

You people are UNBELIEVABLE !!!......... Crab mentality sets in again...

Umuwi na lang kayo....

[garfieldslaststand]

Hmmm, well if you think we are mistaking him, take a look at his blog ! Looks like the exact same post to me. Now who is mistaken ? It is just another one of his aliases.:bored:

http://www.markcupitt.*************/

[mountaintop2007]

been absent for quite sometime and when i look again i get to see this piece of action!

it's in wwwdotmarkcuppittdotblogspotdotcom

Sunday, October 11, 2009

Clark Aviation Skulks away ... Another Blow to the MPL .. just have a look at how they moved their aeroplanes .. (http://markcupitt.*************/2009/10/clark-aviation-skulks-away-another-blow.html)


SATURDAY, OCTOBER 10, 2009



Well, the saga of Clark Aviation continues. I have remained quiet about this embarrassment to the Philippine Aviation Community up until now.
Apart from having promised over 100 cadets an MPL License and rides in an A320 to complete their license, there are still many cadets who are a long way from seeing any kind of license. In fact, I know of a few cadets who are paying out of their own pockets to get their Commercial/IR at another Philippine Aviation School, just to show that they have something for their more than three year association with Clark Aviation.

Clark Aviation has a reputation for not paying their bills, not delivering on the courses they promise, they treat their staff abysmally and are incapable of showing any kind of professionalism towards their day to day operations, the aviation community and their own cadets.

The following photos speak for them selves, the alphas being loaded up onto a low bed to be hauled away to some hidden location. More than likely, the useful bits will be removed and sold and there will only be useless hulks remaining ..

A warning to all considering purchase of these aircraft, they were imported tax and duty free and have been subject to continuous parts removal by CA who refused to buy the correct spare parts.

Anyone who knows anything about aircraft will shudder at the way these aircraft were loaded ...

Let the photos speak for them selves .. (Taken before lunch today .. These are of the third aircraft, the first one nearly fell off whilst loading it on the low bed, unfortunately I did not get a photo of it)

(Oh, I forgot to mention, they took the wings off yesterday whilst it was raining, they were left sitting in the rain on the ground)

[pictures not shown for brevity, but they are exactly the same]



looks conclusive to me.

tsk tsk tsk this 9ball cupp*tt guy is courting trouble. :=

what's the problem with removing the fleet anyway? how is that a "blow to the MPL"?

[M 0.78]

I believe Clark Aviation still has one flyable Alpha in addition to their Cessnas. The other Alphas were just taking up space at Omni. Instead of paying rent, CIA probably decided to store them elsewhere. They're still good for spares at the very least. I don't see anything sinister about that, just smart conservation of resources.

[Fish & Chips]

I know Mark Cupitt personally. I have read all the posts by 9ball that haven't been deleted. Pilipino yan. Medyo obvious. It's not Mark. If you want to launch a personal attack against an individual, you will be more credible if you get your facts straight first. This is a rumor network. But the best rumors are those well-based in fact.

:8

[Fish & Chips]

Whoever wrote that article with the pics of CIA's dismantled Alphas wrote:

"Anyone who knows anything about aircraft will shudder at the way these aircraft were loaded ...

"Let the photos speak for them selves .. (Taken before lunch today .. These are of the third aircraft, the first one nearly fell off whilst loading it on the low bed, unfortunately I did not get a photo of it)

"(Oh, I forgot to mention, they took the wings off yesterday whilst it was raining, they were left sitting in the rain on the ground)"

Heck, the airplanes were sitting out in the rain and sun for ages. Setting the wings on the ground and letting them get wet for a few more minutes would cause no appreciable additional damage. Anyone who knows anything about aircraft would know that.

:oh:

[Mysha Da Kat]

The MPL was conceived during a period of mass hiring worldwide. Airlines all over were scraping the bottom of the barrel for warm bodies to fill their cockpits. During the mass hiring at PAL in the early 80's, a VP told me, "If Satan walked in tomorrow with an ATPL, I'd hire him!"

The MPL program guarantees a supply of first officers well-qualified for that position by virtue of the extremely focused type-specific training. When we first heard rumors of the MPL, everyone was leery to say the best. But after several years of flying with A320 and A319 first officers that came from heaven knows where, I think I would not mind flying with an MPL holder.

But the airline business is a volatile one. The best corporate planners and human resources divisions in the world could not have predicted the global economic crisis. Who could have prevented our downgrading to Category 2 by the FAA? We all know the answer to that but at least he doesn't work there anymore. All the same, airline expansion and consequent crew hiring was snookered.

Now there is a huge slowdown in airline hiring. Suddenly nobody is in a hurry to hire low time pilots. The only airlines who are hiring actively have their pick of experienced crew, many on furlough from other airlines.

Those MPL candidates already in the pipeline who have been sponsored by 5J are lucky. 5J has spent millions for them and will probably not write off their training cost and leave them swinging in the wind. 5J probably has more sense than PAL who trained Zest's first pilots for free.

It would be wonderful if 5J could absorb the self-sponsored CIA cadets but, to paraphrase an earlier contributor, nobody owes them anything beyond the training for which they paid. These guys should be thinking of alternatives as early as now. In my humble opinion, the best option is to go for additional training to get a proper CPL/IR. Think of it as an en route diversion. Only a minuscule minority of all CPL/IR holders will get to fly the big iron. But only those who are available will even have a chance.

Never lose track of your destination. But don't forget to enjoy the journey itself.

[mountaintop2007]

Fish & Chips, I think the fact that the guy has been living in the islands for long means he should know his tagalog, but really who cares? if you really believe what you say that this is a rumor network, then your defending him should also be taken with a grain of salt, shouldnt' it? :hmm:

anyway, just to move this thread forward, my caap connections tell me that they have been mighty impressed with the performance of ALL the MPL cadets in the sim checks. of course we all know that is not "all-conclusive" in the sense that the real test is on line. in that regard, the Cebu cadets have been proving the MPL very well, in fact so well that there is talk of possibly decreasing the number of TAGS. that should be welcome news for Cebu Pacific and of course, the cadets.

well it's been 6 months since the first MPL guys graduated, and Cebu now has around 20 MPL cadets chasing their flight hours (i wonder what the FOs in Cebu really feel about that? i hear most, if not all 5J senior pilots are supportive of the venture, though.)

also, i am not sure if that has been brought up in this thread, but non cebu guys only need to do the TAGS to get the MPL even without an airline partner. i was pleasantly surprised with that news, but it seems to me in the way they talked that it's really old news. can anybody confirm? if so, what CA only needs is an airline TAGS provider.

[Fish & Chips]

Mountaintop, you are correct. I wouldn't give a rat's ass to know who wrote that article. And Mark might be able to order a beer in Tagalog.

I'm really happy that there are developments favoring the MPL pilots. Having ridden the aviation roller coaster for almost 4 decades, I know quite well what it's like to be all dressed up with nowhere to go.

Timing is everything in this game. It took me less than four years to get my first command in the airline. Recently I've seen guys do it in two - in jets even. It's a matter of being in the right place at the right time with the right qualifications. Take every opportunity to stack the cards in your favor.

[fine]

Game over for CA

[betpump5]

Care to explain?

[M 0.78]

fine
Game over for CA


Why game over? What happened?

[Mysha Da Kat]

The word is CA's last flyable 172 is now grounded in SFU. I guess they'll have to rent planes from Omni again, if they're not already doing so.

[Airforce2]

Not actually for CA, game over for Mr. Fiine, you crushed and burned to your flight simulator.

[Mysha Da Kat]

CA is renting airplanes from Omni, as they always have. They were busy flying yesterday.

[traveller93]

There's been a deafening silence in this forum regarding the self-sponsored cadets situation at CIA.

Any news??

[balut]

There's a new GM now. He's come to replace the former GM (MT).. Also not around is JE (No one really knows what hes position was withn CA) and the accountant..They all got fired it seems.:ugh:
The students that are waiting for the promised base training in Cyprus seem to be very quiet,they dont say much about their situation.. just like this thread lately..:E:E

[jamestaylor]

Who is new GM? Hard to believe still running........... Sad

[balut]

Congrats on the following cadets on this link:
Cebu Pacific scholars: Flying to even greater heights (http://businessmirror.com.ph/home/companies/18668-cebu-pacific-scholars-flying-to-even-greater-heights.html)
But why is it mentioned that its a 5J training and not a CA training.:ugh:

[traveller93]

Judging by the last posts, there seems to have been (or is) some movement in CIA.

Cyprus base training? Could anyone develop this further and how does it affect the self-sponsored cadets?

Those poor souls.....:hmm: three years and nothing to show for it.

Congrats to the 5J's and good luck.:D

[balut]

Can anyone confirm the status of CA's aircraft. Heard that they have no flyable aircraft and that they renting again from Omni..

[vtango]

Dont know what you based your post on balut but atleast i have seen with my eyes that CA has 2 172s flying. They also additionally rent 2 152s from Omni...well sometimes 8842 (C172) also....you just dont see them anymore at Omni field coz they have moved out to the Main!

(Something in my opinion they should have done a long time ago...considering that they fly IFR quite often...well better late than never :ok: Its much easier to fly night and IFR from the main + the flt ops facilites are a lot better now!)

Whats not flying is the Alpha...thats why you see CA renting the 152s...as i always have maintained...the Alphas were a mistake...lack of spares/trained technicians/instructors in the Philippines for that model...but otherwise that aircraft was a nice lil plane to fly! (much better than the cessna...stick forces were pretty light)

[balut]

Vtango im requesting confirmation on CA's aircraft status. Im not affirming anything yet.
We all know the sad ending of the Alphas, the fotos here say it all.:} True that CA has moved its operation to the main runway.
But are the 2 cessnas that clark own flying constantly? Ive heard there's a few issues concerning those 2 planes... mechanical and paperwork issues..

[vtango]

Balut..am glad you raised this issue. Am not telling everything is hunky dory with CA aircrafts but having said that i wish to put in writing my observations regarding this!

I am one of the few who has experiences flying both CA and OMNI aircrafts. Take the following 2 scenarios:

CA aircraft (Alpha):

A/C grounded due to inop DG!

OMNI aircraft (C152)

Aircraft dispatched with following instruments INOP:

1. DG
2. Turn Coordinator
3. VOR inop (temperamental ;) works fine on the ground but becomes inop in the air..those who know of this ...know what aircraft reg is am talking about :))
-and-
4. Xponder became inop while flying!

As far as i am concerned i dont see anything wrong in flying a VFR flight with an INOP DG....

Both the above flights for VFR sorties...

Personally i dont find anything wrong with dispatching an aircraft with an INOP DG for a VFR flight. I have flown IFR flights with an INOP DG, No big deal.

Again there were instances when we had to return to field twice flying omni aircrafts due to engine vibrations, once due to faulty radio.
So far so good with CA aircrafts! fingers crossed!

I find that dispatch criteria vastly varies from flight school to flight school.

Answering your question....both CA 172s are flying.

[traveller93]

By the look of things, CIA seems to be doing well and still in business but, coming back to an earlier post, does anyone have any information about the Cyprus thing?

Will it resolve the problems that have plagued CIA for such a long time?

Christmas is around the corner. Give the suffering students the best present they wish (and paid) for:

An useful PILOT'S LICENCE!!!

[JV126]

like anything in aviation, nothing is for certain.... I'll believe it when i see it....

[balut]

Seems like CA is very busy, there are a few new students at CA, they have enrolled in a PPL CPL course with CA. the part that I dont get is how can CA have ever advertized and accepted new students for a PPL CPL training when they are not certified for such training...:ugh::ugh: and in the month of December..:ugh::ugh:
How can the CAAP ever certify CA to offer PPL CPL training if they cant even resolve there MPL program...
PPL CPL course with 2 barly flying aircraft and rented planes from OMNI.:}:ok::}

[win_faa]

With CAAP, anything is possible! :ok:

[chairwrecker]

have the final cebu pac cadets all finished yet? what about the non cebu? the foreigners? will it ever get sorted out? hope the new GM can finish the job.

[AvEnthusiast]

The two C-152s which I already said Clark will be getting them, just took-off and are on their way to Clark.

[chairwrecker]

from where, AvEnthusiast?

[Try Hard 4.0]

from dumaguete

[vtango]

Yes... 2 C152s are now owned by CA. they got ferried last week. heard it was quite a flt all the way from down south! Anyway they look good...of course they are used...no "new" 152s but quite neat inside.

Saw Cebu Pac cadets performing TAGs today. looks like they have finally restarted base checks after their X Mas, new yr breaks...:ok:

Heard also some positive news from the non sponsored cadets last week. hoping for the best for them!

[balut]

Are those planes going to be used for CA cadets? Apparently HOT went to Sharjah (he's back now) to bring the cadets from Alpha's Aviation school their, to fly here!?
And whats happening to CA's first PPL/CPL students that arrived late last year. Does CA have their permit to train PPl/CPL yet!?
Hmmm what the HOT of training is doing their no one knows!!?

Great news VTANGO about the TAGS today. Thanks.

[chairwrecker]

sources in the school say indeed they have inducted new cadets who are supposedly taking the CPL ground classes (CA cannot get any more "self-sponsored" MPL cadets), while a simple check with CAAP shows CA is not yet authorized to offer CPL...could be a case of CAAP turning a blind eye on the scenario? however this is still very risky.

if CA is "caught" then even the MPL non-sponsored cadets who are now just waiting for base checks will suffer should the CAAP suspend CA. however if CAAP is in fact tolerating them, then there should be no problem (unless the elections coming up throws some surprises in personnel and policy).

glad to hear the TAGS are being done again. hope everybody gets through! it's been what, 3000 years already??

[coffindodger]

Talk on the street is that
RP-C1049 off the end of the runway 02 Omni this morning, only pride damaged. Young lady was flying, possibly some minor damage to aircraft

[vtango]

Nice to know that the oldest bird in OMNI is still flying! Have flown her quite a few times...the most memorable trips being to Pinatubo and solo flights to Vigan via Iba.

Also glad to know that nobody was hurt in this latest incident. Since you say possibly damage is minor to the old bird, we should see her flying again hopefully :ok:

However i think it is an omni student involved as no more young ladies in core flying at CA! all the ladies have moved on to the MCC/SIMS or are already flying with 5J.

[traveller93]

Any news about the self-sponsored students completion of the MPL training?

The silence is deafening....

[avtraining1]

There are 2 Cessna 152s that was bought by Clark Aviation last month from Aviation Training One International (http://www.avtraining1.com) in Dumaguete. Both aircraft has very low time engine and are well maintained (RP-C7013 & 7014) by the previous owner. We hope that Clark Aviation's students and instructors will take care of that aircraft...

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad181/danbahinting/at1-1.jpg

But the iconic Cessna 152 Aerobat (http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id=A20070077000) of the school, with serial no next to William Kershner (http://www.pprune.org/www.kershnerflightmanuals.com) will be brought back to the US.

[paolylo]

wow, it's been ages since i last posted here.

just saw an old video of my family having a picnic at Canlubang airfield back in the early 80's, i saw RP-C1049 painted white and red (with PAL Aero Club on its tail fin) doing TAGs with PAL's flight engineers back in the day when they needed basic flight training. how ironic that i used to see that aircraft everyday at OMNI without knowing i had seen that same plane over 20 years ago when i was a kid.

anyway, no news yet on the latest batch of MPL cadets due for A320 TAGs. so far, i believe it's 31(?) out of 55 MPL cadets of CA already with 5J. four more are in the bubble. the next group after them includes myself.

safe flight, guys.

[fernandeztv]

Hello All...

Breaking my silence after a long time.

This thread has become very quiet in the recent past and i find that quite confusing! The past 1 month has been quite hectic and very productive!:ok:

15 Non-aligned cadets (including myself) have completed the base training (12 take off and landings) with Cyprus Air in Larnaca (LCLK) over the past few weeks. CAAP designated checkpilots supervised the base training.

The fist 4 cadets who finsihed their base training have been issued their MPL licenses YESTERDAY (29 Mar 2010).

So here we have the first 4 non-aligned MPL cadets earning their licenses. :D

The remaining cadets who finished their base training are in the various stages of processing their licenses.

It has been a tough time for all of us (cadets and school) to get through with the various stages of this MPL programme but the point is that the programme pushed forward. (despite all the nay sayers and the people who hoped the programme would fail).

A BIG thanks to all the instructors and the people of all depts who tirelessly worked behind the scenes to make MPL a reality! :ok: It truly is a dream come true after certain people in the past nearly killed the dream and drove the programme to the ground. (the same people who had the audacity to criticize the programme after being connected with the school! Everyone knows whom we are talking about! They and their doomsday predictions!)

Recovery was a painful process but truly rewarding in the end! :)

Cheers,
Thomas.

[rq4globalhawk]

UPDATE

15 Non-aligned cadets (including myself) have completed the base training (12 take off and landings) with Cyprus Air in Larnaca (LCLK) over the past few weeks. CAAP designated checkpilots supervised the base training.

The first 4 cadets who finished their base training have been issued their MPL licenses YESTERDAY (29 Mar 2010).


:D Congratulations and all the best for you and your group! :ok:

[fatcadet]

YouTube - Base Training on Airbus A320 - MPL @ Clark Aviation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ90t1dx0Ig)

:ok:

[malirm]

Congratulations Thomas, I am one of the MPL cadets in the sister academy...Alpha Aviation Academy (UAE), I'm really happy to hear the good news. :ok:

Good luck with your Aviation Career...bytheway, I'll start the Core flying at Clark...& hopefully the same route that you went through, but then back to the UAE...did you hear about a kind of line training done here in the UAE for you guys?

[fernandeztv]

rq4globalhawk, malirm

Thanks for your wishes!

@fatcadet! yikes you posted my youtubeupload here! ;)

malirm pls check our PM.

[traveller93]

It seems that finally things are moving in the right direction (after two years delay....).

So, what's next?

[SlamBam]

Any truth to the report that CAAP has grounded the 5J MPLs?

[slatch]

That would be a shame. I was talking with a Greek friend this week whose brother works for Cyprus. He stated they were impressed by the performance of the Clark MPL’s. It would be a shame if the CAAP is going to punish the program because they lack the talent to develop a proper regulatory program to manage the license.

[explai9]

CAAP itself is in a turmoil....in the middle of all that some so called "inspector" created a ruckus that the MPL grads do not have an IR rating! so how can they fly A320s!

Poor fellow did not realize that the MPL grads have been flying IFR all the way from their core flying days....and that there is no separate IR rating as such for the MPL issue! The person in CAAP would have realized that if he had ever read the course content of MPL but alas…we are talking about CAAP! :ugh:



EU blacklisted Philippines not because the airlines are unsafe but because the regulatory authority is manned by unqualified people who have no clue as to what to do.:{ The Airlines continue to suffer....


CAAP motto: DGs might come and DGs might go...but we go on forever...i.e, doing NOTHING other than creating unwanted trouble !

[fernandeztv]

Just for info:

The CAR states (please note the line in red colour):

Download link:
CAAP - Downloads (http://www.caap.gov.ph/web/downloads.htm)

In the above page select the link: CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS (final/approved) (http://www.caap.gov.ph/Downloads/carfinalapproved.zip)

Opening PDF CAR Part 2e-23Jun08.pdf page 44 states:


(g) Privileges. Subject to compliance with the requirements specified in this Part, the
privileges of the holder of an MPL shall be:
CAR Part 2
Issue 1 2-43 23 June 2008
(1) (i) to exercise all the privileges of the holder of a private pilot license in the
appropriate airplane category provided the requirements have been met;
(ii) to exercise the privileges of the instrument rating in a multi-crew operation;
and
(iii) To act as co-pilot in an airplane required to be operated with a co-pilot.
(2) Before exercising the privileges of the instrument rating in a single pilot operation,
the license holder shall have demonstrated an ability to act as pilot-in-command in
a single pilot operation exercised solely by reference to instruments.
(3) Before exercising the privileges of a commercial pilot license in a single pilot
operation, the license holder shall have:
(i) completed 70 hours, either as pilot-in-command, or made up by not less than
10 hours as pilot-in-command and the necessary additional flight time as pilotin-
command under supervision;
(ii) meet the requirements for the commercial pilot license.
(3) Act as second-in-command/co-pilot in commercial air transportation in airplanes
required to be operated with a co-pilot by the type certificate of the aircraft or the
regulations under which the aircraft will be operated; and
(4) When the holder of an airline transport pilot license in the airplane category has
only previously held a MPL, the privileges of the license shall be limited to multicrew
operations unless the holder has met the requirements established. Any
limitation of privileges shall be endorsed on the license.

[buddys]

Hi guys,

Back in 2007 when I was looking for a good flight school to do flight training in the Philippines and I found a few. I came across MPL CA was offering and found it very interesting. Back then it was a new thing (until now, I think) and thought of going for it. Well, basically because of financing issues I didn't go for any pilot training. Now I'm ready, I've been looking around for good pilot training schools again and I came across this thread about CebuPac's MPL programme with CA. It's good to know there've been successful cadets who've completed their training and finally got their licenses, but now it makes me wonder, if I did join this programme 3 years ago, where would I stand?

I know there are many Filipino pilots here, and I would like to obtain some opinions. I'm looking for a pilot training school again and am hoping to start a career in flying. So far, after reading (at least not all messages) this thread, MPL is not at all an option. Would you say so?

Also, I'm looking for pilot training in the US instead of the Philippines. Is that a good decision? After doing my research, the cost of training in the Philippines is almost the same as training in the US. I'm not undermining training in the Philippines, I'm a Filipino myself, but sometimes, I tend to favor the option of training elsewhere rather than training in the Philippines.

What do you guys think? Can you recommend some schools in the Philippines that I should really consider? Or otherwise, recommend schools in the US?

Your experiences and comments are welcome for those people who are also thinking of starting a career in flying. The foundation of basic pilot knowledge gained where we choose to train is very important so your opinions or comments will help us decided are very much appreciated.

Thank you!

[Try Hard 4.0]

buddys check your PMs

[franztorres21]

This too is my dilemma. Im a staff nurse working in one of the tertiary hospitals in alabang for more than a year. But I still want to pursue a flying career. Currently, I am waiting for my interview with PAL but due to large volume of applicants, my interview might be next year. I submitted my application last August 2009 with them. What can you suggest? I am thinking of doing flight training in US instead, but I am also considering job availability in the US and here in the Phil after doing training in the US.

[fernandeztv]

@franztorres21 I really have no idea if being a nurse in the US generates enough income to sustain and finish off an CPL + IR in one year. But i am pretty sure that getting a job in the US is not as as easy as it is being projected! That too working on your own terms of 3 days ON and 4 days OFF...seems too good to be true!

As far as i am concerned i just had a full time job for a few years that paid well. Meanwhile using my salary cert i invested in real estate and took a loan. After 3 years i sold off the property, repaid the loan and still had enough to finance the tution fee. Whatever it is...i suggest you keep the end in mind and slowly start working towards it! and i did not even own a civic...i had a very small...very very small hatchback from suzuki...but most of the days i took pubic transport.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other news ...i am glad to hear that my fellow cadets and classmates in 5J have been cleared off this nonsense IR issue by CAAP.

Fly safe mga bords....Ingat! :ok:

[rq4globalhawk]

CAAP itself is in a turmoil.... some so called "inspector" created a ruckus that the MPL grads do not have an IR rating! so how can they fly A320s!

Poor fellow did not realize that the MPL grads have been flying IFR all the way from their core flying days....and that there is no separate IR rating as such for the MPL issue! The person in CAAP would have realized that if he had ever read the course content of MPL but alas…we are talking about CAAP!

... the regulatory authority is manned by unqualified people who have no clue as to what to do. ....

5J's knee-jerk reaction was to ground MPL F/Os based on a verbal statement of the CAAP "inspector", nothing written at all, nothing from the DG. I hope that matter has been straightened out by this time (see tvfernandez' CAR quotation).

Le "inspecteur" owns a flying school - sounds like a conflict of interest to me.

My humble opinion, after talking to MPL-involved TREs/TRIs/SFIs these past few months:

The only difference between the MPL pilot and the fresh CPL/IR graduate is 100+ hours of "real" flying, which the MPL fellow spent instead in a jet simulator, getting type-rated and specializing in his chosen aircraft. Give the MPL F/O a few months of A320/B737 high-cycle flying and that "real" flying "edge" will be totally wiped out and surpassed.

Our next batch of pioneers hope to join a middle eastern airline. I am certain they will do well and I wish them all the best in flying. I may opt to be an expat someday - in which case I hope to cross paths with you fellows.

[rq4globalhawk]

Oh sorry - I should have previewed my post before sending - the 1st part was a quotation of part of explal9's post.

[traveller93]

rq4globalhawk. What do you mean with this:

"Our next batch of pioneers hope to join a middle eastern airline."?

This sounds like good news but you use the word hope which I interpret as a non-certainty.

In any case, I wish all of them good luck and a quick ingress in the profession they invested so much in.

As I've been saying all along, it is about time CIA comes up with the goods they promised three years ago.

[rq4globalhawk]

rq4globalhawk. What do you mean with this:

"Our next batch of pioneers hope to join a middle eastern airline."?

This sounds like good news but you use the word hope which I interpret as a non-certainty.

Thanks. Nothing is certain in this world, but according to my sources this comes with a high degree (at least 95%) of probability.

We do not know how many MPL pilots the airline intends to hire. The "hope" part is: we hope they hire a good number. The application and the licence conversion process has already started.

[Aerocadet]

Hello everyone!

I have been browsing this thread for a long time already. It's like the MPL is on the right way already..

Anyway, I would just like to ask if anyone has any update on Clark Aviation's PPL-CPL/IR course offering. Anyone here completed the course or is on the process of completing it?

I had a talk with the marketing of CA and they were able to answer my questions well. I'm just bothered on the payment terms/policies. :suspect:

Hehe.. What attracts me with CA is their C-172SP :ok:.. Wanna fly one soon!

Thanks!

[chairwrecker]

yeah good machines, probably the only SPs being used in the Phils for flight training. Just not sure if they will let you use the SPs for the CPL course instead of the 152s bought from Dumaguete. im sure if you wanna fly the 172SPs they will charge u more.

[paolylo]

2 more CA cadets just completed base training with 5J yesterday at Clark. i think it brings up the total to 37 (18 more to go). i believe 27 are already flying with 5J, 3 of which (the first batch), have been released as full-fledged F/O's.

[Aerocadet]

Marketing says.. They will allow the use of the C-172SPs if you're already in your instrument course. The C-152s will be used for private and time building for CPL. Hmmm.. Are the Robins still flying? I'm planning to visit Clark Aviation soon. Just to have a sneak peek for their facilities. :ok:

[chairwrecker]

@paolylo
great to hear that 3 are now no longer Limited FOs. I think Cebu just made history (again!) as the only airline in operation right now with FOs from MPL (need to check the ones from China). Congratulations! :ok:

on the other hand i hope CA is not working on another bit of history: the longest MPL training program ever ....:}

[Aerocadet]

Hmmm.. Anyone knows any update on Clark's PPL-CPL/IR Course with ATPL Level Ground School? How are they doing? :hmm:

[traveller93]

There have been no updates on this thread for more than a month.

What happened to those guys that were to go to a Middle East airline?

rq4globalhawk (http://www.pprune.org/members/161820-rq4globalhawk) any news?

[Bagoongathipon]

everyone's busy flying! :)

[coffindodger]

Or singing and dancing to Wowwoeeeeeeee

[Aerocadet]

That would be good news.. I guess CA is pushing the right buttons already. :bored: Actually, I really want to go at CA but PPL/CPL/IR costs P300k to P200k more than what other flight schools offer. :}

[traveller93]

Bagoongathipon: "everyone's busy flying!" http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

That sounds good and I take it that all the paperwork has been through. Do they have a program to choose the one's that stay with the airline?

coffindodger: "Or singing and dancing to Wowwoeeeeeeee"

This one I don't understand. Are you hinting that the guys are not concentrating in their work in the ME?

I think they are aware that success is a must.

[man of steel]

All the MPL Cadets i know are busy flying with cebu pacific now and not like others say. Goodluck to those mpl friends back in cebu pacific, all the best to you all! :ok:

[traveller93]

Thanks Man of Steel. Good luck to the guys flying with Cebu Pacific.

But I was refering to the ones that were supposed to go to a Middle East airline. How are they doing?

[chairwrecker]

agree with traveller. for 5j cadets, it's almost a non issue as that track has been opened up and proven by the previous management. heard that the first ones who graduated last year are now being fully released to Line as full fledged FOs, so everything there is just a matter of time.

it's the non-5J guys whose progress everybody is anxious to know.

[rq4globalhawk]

What happened to those guys that were to go to a Middle East airline?
rq4globalhawk (http://www.pprune.org/members/161820-rq4globalhawk) any news?


... I'm busy flying too ... will ask

[valiant05]

Three Bahraini and four Indian CA cadets were accepted by the "Middle East" airline and are to start their line training by July. Seven Filipinos and two foreign cadets are also in line and are to report in a few weeks. Some are also busy flying for a very "juicy" airline.

[rq4globalhawk]

Three Bahraini and four Indian CA cadets were accepted by the "Middle East" airline and are to start their line training by July. Seven Filipinos and two foreign cadets are also in line and are to report in a few weeks. Some are also busy flying for a very "juicy" airline.

Feedback I received:

Valiant05's news checks out - The seven pilots were accepted by Air Arabia, training to start next month.

The nine cadets in Clark are busy preparing for their interview. Air Arabia needs a total of fifteen pilots at the moment. It seems they have a shortage of F/Os. The airline is planning to open a new base and launch new routes to Europe.

A few MPL cadets from the Alpha Aviation school in Sharjah have just arrived and have started their core flying in Clark.

ZestAir is training at least a couple of MPL pilots.

Expect developments in Clark Av's CPL/IR A320 course within the next few months. A marketing campaign overseas has been launched and I gather there has been positive response in this area.

The school has been cited for excellence in MPL training by the GCAA and the UK-CAA, based on the performance of its recent graduates.

.... now back to my daily grind ... safe and happy flying (real, simulator and bunk) to all of you ... all the best!

[traveller93]

Thanks guys!!!

So the "juicy" airline is Zest Air.... Heard many things about that set-up. Good luck to the MPLrs!!!

Globalhawk: I bet the "bunk grinding" is the one you enjoy the most....;);)

Your feedback is very clear and indicates that, finally, things are coming to a positive conclusion.

Air Arabia is indeed expanding and the MPLs will get a chance to log a lot of hours and flying experience in a large route network. They'll just need to look where to step....

Regarding the MPL at Clark, perhaps they don't realise that they may be the pioneers of the generic MPL+ training method that is in the pipeline.

There are moves in that direction, but the wheel turns slowly....

But what matters now is that every single one of the Clark pilots gets his/hers dreams fulfilled. They deserve it after so much trouble and stress.

Keep the news flowing as it helps to promote this type of training.

[malirm]

Hi guys, it has been a while since I posted here :)!

I am one of the cadets from Alpha Aviation Academy being sent to Clark Aviation Academy here in the Philippines. All what I can say is that the MPL wheel has started rolling faster this time...BIG Thanks for the Bahraini & Indian Cadets who proofed to be excellent in their Psychometric, Psychomotor, Interviews & Sim Check at Air Arabia...they have changed a lots of views about the MPL & especially about Clark Aviation Academy.

Hope I get to become like them, as I will be a bi-made product of Alpha Aviation Academy & Clark Aviation Academy...good luck for the cadets scheduled for the interview with air arabia...and special thanks too to air arabia who believed in MPL & thus in us :ok:.

[Aerocadet]

Hmmm.. Will there more airline sponsorship programs coming up in the near future? Local airlines like Zest Air and international airlines like Tiger Air, etc.?

I pray there would be! :hmm:

[airfoil]

Hi everyone It's been a long time since I last visited PPRUNE.
Well now I have my resources for the MPL (i've been eyeing on these program since CIA started running). I just wanna ask beacuse when I visited the Clark instittue website It says in their MPL course "Note: Multi-crew Pilot License Training Program requires airline sponsorship prior admission."
now, where can I get airline sponsorship? I'd like to take MPL program but I guess this requirement is giving me a hard time.
Does CIA provide these scholarship?:ugh::ugh:

Please shed me some light on these.. thanks!
Happy Flying everyone!

[man of steel]

FROM Aerocadet
Hmmm.. Will there more airline sponsorship programs coming up in the near future? Local airlines like Zest Air and international airlines like Tiger Air, etc.?

I pray there would be!
____________________________________________________________ ______
Hi Aerocadet, tiger airways has it's own MPL cadets training in australia right now. http://www.staero.aero/downloads/uploadedfiles/STATA%20Fact%20sheet.pdf

But let us hope some other airlines will open doors once they realized the potential thereis in the program itself.

[chairwrecker]

congratulations to CA for the very tough road that was. and to the cadets for the patience and fortitude they displayed all through out!

hope the philippines really does become a center for MPL training in the world, finally erasing the old sh*t about training here.

[Aerocadet]

Oh well.. I think it would still take a long time before airlines open their eyes to the potential of the MPL programme.

I'm surprised with what's happening with this thread. In the previous months, lots of critics keep on telling things about the MPL programme. Now, it seems we're on a peaceful mode right now. We're beginning to become positive of what the MPL has done through time.

I remember when a former MPL cadet, now FO flying with 5J, told me when I mentioned about this thread. He said.. "Let the skills do the talking.." and I strongly agree with that.

@chairwrecker: soon the Philippines will be center for MPL training and that's a big factor in proving that our industry is doing well. What I think is pulling the industry down is the appointment of government officers who are not qualified for the job and of course, mismanagement of funds (corruption?). Check out the CAAP website in the downloads section, there's a PDF file for NOTICE OF VACANCY. I hope those who apply at CAAP are qualified for the job and in good spirit in serving this industry.

God bless the Philippines! :ok:

[fernandeztv]

Cost of MPL programme at Clark Aviation Mid 2007 = X
Cost of implementing the MPL programme = X + Y USD
Getting a right seat job on an A320 with a GREAT Airline = PRICELESS :)

BIG thanks to all involved for their efforts!:ok:

All the best to my fellow cadets in their training and job hunt. Its just a matter of time, patience and ...hard work. Never stop learning.

Safe flt to my fellow cadets already flying.

Ingat Ladies and Gentlemen...

[traveller93]

This thread has again been quiet for a long time.

Any good news coming?

[traveller93]

Almost two weeks since my last post and not a single comment giving us news of any successful progress in the MPL careers (other than the lucky 5Js).

Are there any? How many self-sponsored MPL pilots have completed their IOE and found jobs?

Come on guys!!! Give us the good news.

[paolylo]

i got third-hand info from a fellow 5J-half sponsored cadet yesterday. the latest is that AirPhil Express is expressing their interest in the remaining self-sponsored MPL's who were already rated by the CAAP after their A320 tags in Cyprus.

let me reiterate that this is third-hand info. i'm in no position to confirm or deny this, but if it's true... it's another point on the scoreboard for Clark Aviation.

[manflex42]

I've heard PAL is now seriously considering CIA grads for A320 FO jobs to address their pilot requirement. Can anybody confirm this?

[Mikkideez]

Gentlemen (and ladies if any),

I am happy for everyone who are benefiting from the MPL program...the program was definitely a boost to get your career started. Keep on encouraging each other to strive hard in your chosen profession. Kudos to all of you for choosing a respectable and rewarding profession.

@Aerocadet, whoever the FO was that said "Let the skills do all the talking", please tell him that he has been smoking pot way too long, and the fact that you agree with him, I would suggest that you lay off the weed as well. That FO sure comes off as "mayabang" because we have NOT SEEN the skills yet. As a matter of fact even those that have been released to the line are still nowhere close to being an "airline pilot". There's one MPL FO that tried to throw his weight around at 5J. But that's ok...because the Captains have and are still putting him in his place. Honestly it sucks to be him. You see, flying is 90% attitude, 10% skill...if you have the proper attitude, the skills will follow...but if your attitude sucks, then your skill isn't going anywhere period.

[coffindodger]

Is Mr Peter Q still working there or has he retired now.
Thanks in advance.

[Bennyboy1]

Pete Q is still at Clark and continues to educate young pilots about all there is to know about ground school subjects. He is their longest serving member of staff.

It appears that CA is well and truly back with 15 of their cadets going to the PAL Group with options on additional pilots once the first group are absorbed into the system. So far Clark have placed cadets with Air Arabia, Zestair, Cebu Pacific and now the PAL Group. This is, of course, great news for students and for the staff at Clark. Most likely all non-sponsored A320 cadets will be in full time airline employment by the end of the year.

It has taken some time for the MPL concept to be accepted however this latest placement advances MPL in the Asia region and it looks like it is here to stay

[traveller93]

Welll…. There’s life in this thread after all.

@paolylo. Even third-hand info is something to give those poor guys some hope of finishing the longest pilot course on record.

I only don’t think it is “another point on the scoreboard for Clark Aviation”. It is only a coincidence that PAL’s pilots are leaving in droves and the opening could be there. If it is, then the guys should take the oportunity.

@Mikkideez. I second your words that the MPL program is the way for pilot training in the future. Pity that CIA has made such a mess with the self-sponsored cadets that paid a fortune for a dream that is taking far too long to materialise.

Your comments regarding the “astronaut” at 5J is something that all MPL (and others) grads should think about. Without the right ATTITUDE there is no place for such people on the RH seat of a commercial airliner.

@Bennyboy1. Great news!!! But are you sure that CIA MPL pilots have been placed in all those airlines? Other than 5J I have not heard, or read, anywhere that has happened. It sure should have made the news… The PPRuNe threads on Air Arabia don’t mention any MPLs intake and AA also needs pilots.

Could you give more details?

To all. As I said from the beginning, the MPL program is the way of the future and CIA was the pioneer but screwed it up by the way it went about it. Others are taking advantage and profiting greatly by doing things right. CIA can also do it but needs, first, to clean the bad name it made by taking non fully sponsored candidates and promising them a career.

Fix the problem (find them jobs) and the industry will look at CIA as a honest enterprise. That is the way to create confidence in the MPL (it should be a generic type rated license, anyway) as discussed here before.

[Thunderbolt49]

Dear Traveller93,

:=

Stop it already ! You have made your point.

FYI and all the gentlemen frequenting PPRUNE..
In addition to those already with Cebu Pacific...

15 more CA graduates awaiting base training with Cebu Pacific
7 are with Air Arabia
3 are with ZestAir (asking for 5 more)
4 just completed their "acceptance check" with PAL for AirPhil
more interviews and acceptance checks to follow.Happy?

[Mikkideez]

@Thunderbolt49

Good to hear that these MPLs are getting placed. As I have said before, the MPL program is a great avenue to jumpstart one's aviation career. The aviation industry is growing at a fast pace, and there may come a time where it would be difficult to fill job vacancies that may happen thru growth, or vacancies being created by pilots leaving for possible greener pastures.

@All MPL Cadets

As much as I support the program, one thing you guys have to realize is that you are entering the airlines with less than 200 hours. One thing that is working against you guys is the lack of experience...something you cannot learn. The average total time of newly hired airline pilot is somewhere in the 2,500 hrs figure...and although most airlines will require a minimum of 1,500 hrs, this figure is just a minimum. Most hired pilots will have experiences well over these numbers. So are you lucky? With less than 200 hrs? You damn betcha you're lucky.

Don't be surprised if you will receive death stares at times in the airlines you enter because they are all thinking the same thing. "What the hell is he/she doing here with such limited experience?" All you could do is prove to everyone that you can do the job. But you guys got a long way...it's all about ATTITUDE, ATTITUDE, and ATTITUDE. Do you want to be good airline pilots? You have got to, for the mean time, eat and sleep "flying". Everything you do is geared towards flying. Flying is not for everyone, otherwise everyone would be one. For the MPL cadets, prepare for a real gut check...because the road after graduation just becomes harder.

[crazydud2000]

it's all about ATTITUDE, ATTITUDE, and ATTITUDE

woahahah...rubbish. it s all about MONEY!

[Thunderbolt49]

I agree 100%.....

"Don't be surprised if you will receive death stares at times in the airlines you enter because they are all thinking the same thing. "What the hell is he/she doing here with such limited experience?" All you could do is prove to everyone that you can do the job. But you guys got a long way...it's all about ATTITUDE, ATTITUDE, and ATTITUDE. Do you want to be good airline pilots? You have got to, for the mean time, eat and sleep "flying". Everything you do is geared towards flying. Flying is not for everyone, otherwise everyone would be one. For the MPL cadets, prepare for a real gut check...because the road after graduation just becomes harder" :eek:

[traveller93]

Thunderbolt49

For someone that claims to be new here (I doubt it, but...) you are raising your "voice" (typing in bolds) far too much for the level intended here. Got it?

My interest in the MPL (worldwide) is because it represents a leap forward from the pilot training that has been in place for many decades. And that is good!!!

Being a new process, it needed, from the beginning, credible institutions to build the foundations from where to raise the necessary trust from the individual aeronautical authorities for acceptance. Unfortunately it did not happen there and everybody knows why.

Having said that, CIA has been doing a lot of work to repair the damage but the pace seems to be a bit slow for the immediate needs, until now.

That is why it is good news to read about all the new developments in respect of employment prospects for the MPLrs already qualified but without the necessary final experience to start drawing a salary. And this affects ALL the non-5J fully sponsored pilots. Best of luck to them!!! They deserve it!!!

If you had given yourself the trouble to read the threads on this subject, you would have seen that there were some fruitful discussions about the merits of making the MPL a generic license instead of an operator customised one. This, in my opinion and I repeat it, should be the way forward and CIA, with its experience, could help make a case to have the ICAO rules changed. Are they doing it? If yes, very good. If not, they should.

Can you see the advantages for everybody?

Finally, don't get too nervous about me making my points.... aviation is a serious business and it does not run only around ATTITUDE. This will only make sense if coupled with the most important word in aviation: SAFETY.

A proper ATTITUDE towards SAFETY will root out those who, as our colleague Mikideez (a wise man) said, think they know it all and I call "astronauts". Crazydud2000 forgets that one needs to be alive to make MONEY. Enough said.

So, whoever you are, take it easy, relax, keep on working on your attitude towards safety and remember that most of the aviators follow this matter with interest, as they might end up with one MPLr on the RH seat and they will want to feel SAFE as well as their passengers.

Have a good day.

[busdriver2010]

Hi guys, I am an aspiring pilot and planning to start training in Jan2011. Which do you think is better at having a job after completion;

a. MPL at CIA?
b. Waiting for PalAV school?
c. Doing flight training in FL,USA(completing PPL/CPL/ME/IR)?

Thanks.:)

[chairwrecker]

busdriver2010,
u need to read a lot more on the MPL. if it remains operator-focused you really have no choice but go CPL.

traveller93,
while understandable, i am still mighty astounded with your sudden "happiness" for CA. quite a turn around, indeed, though i'm sure you're not thinking all of these developments happened due to your pontificating in this thread? := by the way, it's not yet over until the guys do IOE. i really hope the guys got their money's worth. my fear is that the long waiting time may have eroded some flying skills.... heard some of the 5J guys are having a really hard time.

[busdriver2010]

Which is better in terms of quality of training/job opportunities after earning the licenses (PPL/CPL/ME/IR)?

a. Waiting for PalAV (I am still waiting for their initial interview, hopefully if I get in might start mid next year, 2-3 years training period)

b. Going to FL,USA ( might go to ATP, or Flightsafety in Jan2011, 1 year training period to complete all the licenses)

Thanks.

[Mikkideez]

@crazydud

You maybe right...but if YOU are doing this just for the MULAH...well sorry to tell you my friend, you are not a pilot. The money should only be incidental. :=

[Mikkideez]

@Traveller93

Darn that's right...totally forgot that...ATTITUDE towards SAFETY...actually this is more important than ATTITUDE socially. Thanks for adding that traveller. :ok:

[traveller93]

chairwrecker

You shouldn't be surprised with my "sudden happiness" ;) for CA. It is all a matter of being fair. Praise them for doing good work, criticise when not.

You're correct in assuming that I take no credits for anything good that happens at CA (why should I?). Those should be directed at whoever is running the show there at the moment. Big diff from not so long ago, or so it seems.... Time will tell.

You talk about the IOE. Where will it be done? That stage is important to keep the flying skills sharp and to get into the swing of things in the real world.

MPLrs having a hard time at 5J and I understand that they might have lost some flying skills? CA should ensure, for the sake of safety that, when the pilots go to the airlines, they are up-to-date and confident with the a/c. After all, they are responsible for the delays.

God forbid any incident involving a MPLr from CIA. It would be the end of them and a setback for the whole MPL program (worldwide).

Been around the "silver birds" a long time to understand how things happen. It's a constant battle against the Murphy's Law....

[busdriver2010]

Which is better in terms of quality of training/job opportunities after earning the licenses (PPL/CPL/ME/IR)?

a. Waiting for PalAV (I am still waiting for their initial interview, hopefully if I get in might start mid next year, 2-3 years training period)

b. Going to FL,USA ( might go to ATP, or Flightsafety in Jan2011, 1 year training period to complete all the licenses)

Thanks.

[chairwrecker]

i have mixed feelings with CA's MPL cadets finally getting the chance in PAL, in the middle of PAL's tragic pilot experiences. so i hope the MPLers grab this chance and do well. as for CA's turn-around i think credit goes to the management who turned the situation around (i've only met their HOT from India once and he seems a really great guy). i know it's a lot harder to fix stuff than to do something right the first time. cheers and goodluck!

[Bennyboy1]

.... as for CA's turn-around i think credit goes to the management who turned the situation around (i've only met their HOT from India once and he seems a really great guy). i know it's a lot harder to fix stuff than to do something right the first time. cheers and goodluck!


An Aussie guy took over as Managing Director about 10 months ago. He really made an impact, sorted out the cadet problems, staff problems and and established good working relationships with the airlines that are now taking the non-sponsored cadets. I know a couple of the cadets at CA and they speak very highly of this guy and of course are relived that they are getting jobs. Good one mate.

[chairwrecker]

my own sources tell me that the aussie guy is just enjoying the fruits of the hard work that a previous GM from 5J did (MT). if you guys ever wondered why 5J didn't sue CA to kingdom come during the time that CA was well and truly run aground by the bright boys who started CA, well frankly it was because of MT taking over management.

that aussie guy you talk about (RH?) cannot possibly be the one who should be given credit as he is relatively new. granted i hear some things about him, although he's also become famous for being all around Fields, among other things, if you know what i mean. ;)

seriously it would be shameful to give him any credit. :=

the real credit should be given to the Head Of Training plus all the SFIs. i hear they're all very good professional training captains. :D

[onedelacruz]

Hi everyone!

I also aspire to be an airline pilot someday.

Which flying school do you recommend that I enroll to aside from PAL Av and CA? I've crossed out PAL Av since they would not open a new batch anytime soon and CA being new with their PPL+CPL program.

I want to enter the airlines here in the Philippines. Would training with other av schools in the Philippines affect my chances of making it to the airlines (are the airlines biased to some schools)? Does PAL heavily prioritize their graduates? Is getting an airline sponsorship from Cebu Pacific the only way to enter CebuPac?

Thanks!

[fingus]

Are u serious mate? PAST management just made money for themselves. that is a FACT! did not care where these kids could be placed for flying or even cared about their future in the aviation industry.

Head of Training and other instructors???? you guys claim to be JAA standards and seriously.... the quality of these graduates are nowhere near to that standard. I can personally say that to anyone. That is why 5J is having troubles with training these cadets. there is still a big gap that wasnt filled when they were passed on to the airline. basic aviation knowlegde wasnt present. So who would you like to hold responsible for that then?

I know for a fact that RH is doing his job getting this place up to standard. running the school and finding placements for the new graduates. making sure the quality of pilots should come close to an airline standard.

Im not putting anyone down or trying to raise anyones bars but i just think some people dont have a clue of what is going on here.......

[Mikkideez]

Well said Fingus!

For those who are "clueless" about what's going on at 5J, I invite you to ask your MPL mates who are in 5J right now how things are going for them...seriously! If they say they're "doing just fine", then the Kronik is being smoked again.

[chairwrecker]

fingus
it's always easy to say in pprune the words "i know for a fact." you could be as clueless as the best of them here in this thread but you wouldn't know it so stop whining that not everyone is impressed with your favorite mate in CA. but yeah maybe RH is really one white knight. i hear there are not a few "ladies" in clark who vouch for the saving grace of his "love". :E


mikkideez
good point there. although in your opinion, how are these MPLers performing compared with the previous FOs who went the CPL+ 1500H route?

[Navitimer]

Chairwrecker,

Fingus knows, you don't. Let's leave it at that.

Navitimer

[chairwrecker]

navitimer
how in the world you came to conclude that fingus knows and i don't is beyond me. if you really think so, then i rest my case as further discussion with you would be pointless. but i believe you could get rich giving sage advise to people so they can be millionaires if your talent in knowing what's on people's minds is spot on.

[Thunderbolt49]

:) Hi Fingus !!

Are you serious? They claim that? really? my my
And, you say the MPL cadets now with 5J lack basic aviation knowledge?
What is that "big gap that wasn't filled"?
Could you give us specific examples please? What difficulties are they encountering with 5J?

[Thunderbolt49]

In addition Fingus...

Is 5J JAA compliant?

[Mikkideez]

@ Chairwrecker

About the FOs who entered 5J with CPL+1,500 hrs.? I would suppose they are doing just fine at 5J. Why'd ya ask? You trying to compare them with MPLs?

In addition:
Navitimer concluded correctly, you didn't.
Fingus knows, you don't. PLEASE leave it at that.

Doubt it though...pro pilot like you will have the last word...

...so c'mon and "Bring it" OR we can just have a couple of beers at Highstreet Fort and enjoy! :ok:

[traveller93]

My, my..... what’s going on here? It seems quite a few contributors are "flying" VFR in thick fog.... Total loss of visual contact with the objective!!!!

From afar and not knowing personally any of the individuals mentioned, I try to stay focused on the matter at hand that is: defend the A320 MPL pioneer cadets (some already pilots) that believed, and paid for, that they could embrace one of the most challenging careers in the world.

It is no use talking about the crooks that initiated CIA. We all know what they did (and got away with it). We should rather look intently at the present situation and help resolve some serious (by what is "reported" here) issues.

Leave the individual personal life styles out of this discussion but rather concentrate on the professional side of those running the show in CIA.

Let’s see.

1 - A number of CIA MPL pilots (early batches) entered 5J and got good reviews for their performance. Have they continued to improve their skills with the gained experience?

2 - Some others (early batches too) went to Cyprus for their 12 TAGS and got good reviews (from the Cypriot training captains). There's even a video on the net and in this forum. Why Cyprus? Because they were not 5J sponsored.... How many of these have been employed (IOE completed or ongoing)?

NOTE: I think that these guys/girls were mostly trained before the present training management took up their present positions. Might be wrong though....

But things get very serious in the aviation world when we read reports that 5J is not happy about the quality and behaviour of CIA trained MPL pilots. Do they refer to the early or later batches? Either way there is a big problem that needs the most urgent attention from the training school (CIA) if they want to be taken seriously in this business.

Quality=credibility=$$$$$!!!

As I said in an earlier post, CIA must be responsible for the continued training of the MPL pilots while they wait for the promised jobs in the industry. Otherwise they “rust” and lose the skills acquired during the training period. “Rusted” pilots are a safety risk and nobody wants that.

It costs money to keep their skills honed? Sure it does!!! But that is the price they must pay to build up credibility and fulfil their commitments.

You cannot approach an aircraft pilot training academy the same way you do a tricycle driver school in Mumbai (or any other place). The company (CIA) must demand an appropriate performance, and monitor it, from the training top management. If the customers (airlines) complain about the CIA formed MPL pilot’s bad quality and attitude, then the training management should be the first to be questioned about the matter. If they cannot fix those problems, then they should be shown the way.....

It worries me to read this:

http://www.pprune.org/5883213-post17.html (http://www.pprune.org/5883213-post17.html)

And I honestly hope they are not hinting about CIA when they say:

“The Cadets are Mothered through the course and given all the answers to the questions so they can pass their exams,”

Sure way to disaster!!!!


Enough for today and, please, leave the personal stuff out of the discussion.... Live and let live but be serious when you work.

[chairwrecker]

@mikkideez

yap that's the point. ICAO's theory is that MPL addresses shortcomings in the traditional CPL/ATPL + minimum flying hours route with its emphasis on early adoption of and higher training hours on full flight simulator jet training, multi-crew cooperation, and training on the specific airline type. should lead to improvements in FO's abilities to handle airbus systems and work with their captains, etc etc etc (i'll leave it to other posters with more expertise on these matters).

all in theory of course. so i was wondering if 5J, having already 12+ months of experience in IOE of the MPLers, do they find the cadets up to these lofty expectations? any 5J training captain comments in this subject would be great.

[traveller93]

Hello???? Anyone out there???

In one week there must have been a lot happening around CIA.

Keep the news (good and bad) coming.

[buskoto]

any 5J training captain comments in this subject would be great.

A few posts ago, someone in the know (and how!) left a very short comment that said a lot about the 5J experience with MPLs.;)

But if you're expecting a 5J TRI to come out and give an extensive assessment right here on this board, well... don't hold your breath.

[chairwrecker]

buskoto
if that is the case, i guess it's time to close this thread. it was a nice soap opera while it lasted. cheers everyone and happy flying. :ok:

[rq4globalhawk]

i guess it's time to close this thread.

... not yet

[traveller93]

... not yet

I agree!!! There are still some unfinished business to deal with.

[malirm]

Yeh not yet...great news will be coming sometime next month...can't say anything & won't say anything until it happens :)

[traveller93]

Wise man.... Real good news is what is needed.

[rq4globalhawk]

After 2-3 years of ups and downs we're finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. It's not time to shut down this thread yet. I've been in touch with TREs, TRIs, SFIs involved with MPL training: CAAP and ICAO are monitoring the IOE phase of the MPLs. The soap opera is not over until the fat lady sings.

[traveller93]

Its time to refresh the thread again.

Globalhawk. How is the light at the end of the tunnel doing? Still bright or is the torch running out of batteries?

The silence from CA is deafening....

[toffeebuenafe]

confirmed from 2 guys that their CPL/IR program is over.

no graduates, no news, and no airline employment from their CPL program.

must be a big failure, i guess? :D

[dream_0n]

hi! newbie here...
I really want to be a pilot but I dont know where to start...
I saw this ad from Clark Aviation and i am really interested about it especially the MPL license...
With all the comments in this thread, I'm just wondering if this school is good... I'm planning to apply next year.:confused::confused::confused:

[rq4globalhawk]

How is the light at the end of the tunnel doing? Still bright or is the torch running out of batteries?

My apologies Sir, I'm too busy flying to follow up with my contacts - the best info I can give at the moment:

.... Air Arabia - the Bahrainis have started flying; the Indians are waiting for their training slots.
... Zest Air - the first batch of MPL pilots are flying
... Air Phil Express - have interviewed/selected MPL pilots, no further action yet

[rq4globalhawk]

p.s. I was told by a reliable source that CAAP and ICAO are working out the proper procedure for the MPL pilot's IOE phase - monitoring, progress reporting, etc. Hence the delay in implementation for Air Phil Express - pilots will (or might) be seconded to PAL for the IOE phase.

[rq4globalhawk]

p.s. again
- Zest Air MPL pilots are doing fine
- Air Arabia has stopped or slowed down hiring/training. Seems it has to thresh out some crew basing issues

[rq4globalhawk]

" ... confirmed from 2 guys that their CPL/IR program is over."

My Clark source says otherwise. A couple of pilots from the MidEast finished their A320 type rating course and has started qualifying for an airline back home. A few more are in the pipeline. CA has embarked on a marketing program for their CPL/IR course and is reorganizing its worldwide network of training centers (a new one is planned in the U.S.).

[toffeebuenafe]

"CA has embarked on a marketing program for their CPL/IR course and is reorganizing its worldwide network of training centers (a new one is planned in the U.S.)."

embarked on a marketing program for their CPL/IR course? my 2 sources (prospective students) told me CIA has put the program on hold until further notice.

[chairwrecker]

my own sources confirm toffeebuenafe's info. just a simple call to CA confirms that also. maybe the A320 type rating continues, but definitely not the CPL/IR.

[traveller93]

So, the plot thickens..... We have commentators with different views (info) about what is happening at CA.

I did not even know that CA had a licence to do CPL/IR training and now I hear that they do A320 TRs....

On the other hand we have conflicting news about the deal with Air Arabia. Some say the Bahrainis are flying (IOE?) but the Indians that were on the same group are on hold. Until when and what is CA doing about it?

Some say that other philippino airlines are willing to employ MPLrs. But are these positions available to the Indian guys too or are they reserved for the locals (ref. Cebu Pacific)?

After all, the Indian guys were there from the begining and they just keep on being screwed left, right and center.....

If CA is qualified to give A320 TRs, why not give these guys a CPL/IR with an A320 TR and finish their suffering once and for all?

Almost four years.......

[Aerocadet]

Hmmm.. :hmm:

Why are we expecting a lot from Clark Aviation? Other students from different schools around the Philippines complete their CPL/IR also. At the same situation, no airline employment for them also. Will that mean the operation of a certain flight school is a FAILURE as well if they don't produce graduates hired by airlines after finishing a fresh CPL/IR program? :suspect:

[traveller93]

Aerocadet.

I think you missing the point here. The subject is the MPLrs that are still waiting for the fulfillment of the CA promises (an A320 FO qualification and employment) and for which they (CA) got paid handsomelly.

Why doesn't CA provide those poor MPLrs a CPL/IR with an A320 TR (obtained by doing the MPL) and let them find their way in the aviation world?

It is not a question of expecting TOO MUCH from CA. what is expected is that they do the right thing, as all honest people do.

[Aerocadet]

All right. I understand. Maybe I was just overlooking the details here. Anyway, I inquired yesterday about their CPL/IR course. They answered my concerns very well. ;)

[onedelacruz]

I didn't know that Zest Air has MPL trainees at CIA...

Are the trainees company-sponsored? How many trainees and when were they recruited to the MPL program?

[chairwrecker]

@onedelacruz
zestair did not sponsor any MPL cadets, they're only plucking guys now who are available and needing employment.

@traveller
its a shock to me that for a long-time poster here you missed some basic info--suggest to recheck the validity of your CA sources. if they are of any use they will tell you whatever happend to this so-called CPL/IR with A320 TR alternative.

@aerocadet
care to share the concerns and the answers? ;)

[traveller93]

Chairwrecker.

I hope that old age is not affecting my memory that much.....

I read here, some time ago, that CA had applied for a CPL/IR training license but were waiting for the approval. Now it seems they got it but lost it? What happened?

On the other hand, there have been some postings from a Sharjah cadet regarding MPL core flying at CA but I did not see any connection with CPL.... Looks like I missed something....

I wish I had some source within CA but I don't. Nevertheless we know they are very much aware of what is written here. Aren't we?

[toffeebuenafe]

Unfortunately, our Integrated PPL/CPL/IR program is currently on hold. We are now focusing on the Multi-crew Pilot License (MPL), A320 First Officer Transition (FOT) Training, and A320 Type Rating Training. If you are interested to pursue a commercial pilot career, you may take the CPL/IR program from one of the many flying schools in the country, and then come to Clark Aviation for the A320 FOT Training, which is essentially a preparatory training towards becoming a First Officer in a commercial airline on the A320 aircraft. The A320 is currently the bestselling single-aisle jetliner in the aviation industry worldwide.

I got this email from their marketing dept a few hours ago. So it is true. The next question is, why was it put on hold? Caap problems? Did they fail the auditing? ...

Only CIA knows the real story behind.

[traveller93]

toffeebuenafe:

"Unfortunately, our Integrated PPL/CPL/IR program is currently on hold. We are now focusing on the Multi-crew Pilot License (MPL), A320 First Officer Transition (FOT) Training, and A320 Type Rating Training. If you are interested to pursue a commercial pilot career, you may take the CPL/IR program from one of the many flying schools in the country, and then come to Clark Aviation for the A320 FOT Training, which is essentially a preparatory training towards becoming a First Officer in a commercial airline on the A320 aircraft. The A320 is currently the bestselling single-aisle jetliner in the aviation industry worldwide."


There's a good way out of the mess CA created originally. Give the guys/girls (those who were conned into the scam) a Free Of More Charges valid A320 Type Rating. After paying for a MPL and having to pay for a CPL/IR, that is the minimum CA must do to compensate all the suffering and financial losses they caused.

[chairwrecker]

nice. but what's the diff between A320 FOT and A320 TRT? is the FOT really necessary for an aspiring FO or is it just another bogus "enhancement" so your chances of getting hired "improve tremedously"?

Sorry for my ignorance. i just hope CA is not being disingenious again with all of these new "programs".

[onedelacruz]

@chairwrecker

thanks clarifying. pls check your PM.

[iamyumie]

Happened to stumble in this forum.. I don't know this c*pp*t guy actually, just got interested with the post below. I happen to be there too when the alphas was dismantled and loaded. (enjoying the view of the mountains :p)


Hey 9ball....instead of conspiracy theories why dont you use your "common sense"



Hey c'mon Vtango we all know that 9 ball has not got any common sense.

Hmmm, well if you think we are mistaking him, take a look at his blog ! Looks like the exact same post to me. Now who is mistaken ? It is just another one of his aliases.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wbored.gif

http://www.markcupitt.*************/


Look who's talking about losing common sense here.. :E If the guy was brave enough to post it on his blog spot with his real name(:confused:) on it, then why he would hide behind an alias and repost it here?? It's like shooting your own feet.. tsk..tsk..tsk..:=

Whoever wrote that article with the pics of CIA's dismantled Alphas wrote:

"Anyone who knows anything about aircraft will shudder at the way these aircraft were loaded ...

"Let the photos speak for them selves .. (Taken before lunch today .. These are of the third aircraft, the first one nearly fell off whilst loading it on the low bed, unfortunately I did not get a photo of it)

"(Oh, I forgot to mention, they took the wings off yesterday whilst it was raining, they were left sitting in the rain on the ground)"

Heck, the airplanes were sitting out in the rain and sun for ages. Setting the wings on the ground and letting them get wet for a few more minutes would cause no appreciable additional damage. Anyone who knows anything about aircraft would know that.

It's actually the opposite. There is a mile difference between when the airplanes sitting out in the rain for ages with its "fairings" and "access covers" in place, and, letting the wings get wet with "acidic" rain with its unprotected internals are exposed. Just a matter of time and those wings will get corroded and dis-integrate. How about if it is your ass sitting in that airplane when that happen? :confused:
Let's make it simple.. How would you feel if I treated your car/airplane/jeep/whatever the same way as those guys treated the alphas??? Honest anwer only :rolleyes:

[paolylo]

a quiet thread here.

3 more MPL's cadets have done base training with 5J and will be applying for their licenses, a couple more were released to the line over the weekend... i lost count on how many have been released, should be over a dozen of them already.

[traveller93]

Indeed a quiet thread here, until someone's cage is rattled....

With all the news/rumours in the other topics threads about the local airlines and pilot's moves, what is Clark Aviation doing to place its newly formed MPL pilots in those "new" airlines other then only at 5J?

After all, the MPL is a fully recognized licence by the CAAP.

Any ideas or opinions?

[valiant05]

There are five graduates doing their IOE with PAL in behalf of Airphil Express and at least fifteen are now with Zestair. The few remaining A320 trainees at Clark, both non-airline sponsored and 5J trainess, are due for base training in Cyprus and Bupak.

[chairwrecker]

what about those poor chaps from india?

[Bagoongathipon]

I dont think they are "poor" anymore this time. If you know what im saying.

[traveller93]

Bagoogathipon.

Care to elaborate on it, or is it a "state secret"? ;)

[traveller93]

Welll.... It is rare that a discussion thread be involved in such secrecy such as this one about CIA MPL cadets/pilots. In my opinion it should be very much alive with whatever news of its MPL pilots finding jobs in any world airline as a sign of success. But no, everything is wrapped up as if they were State secrets.

So. The Indian MPL pilots are not so "poor" anymore (after 4 years?). Have they found jobs in the Philippines (strapped for pilots, ref. Cebupac and others threads) or anywhere else? Are they getting the same employment conditions as the locals (from whatever latitudes) or are they still being pushed to the limits of human endurance regarding racism and unfair treatment?

I think CIA owes an overdue public explanation about the treatment of its MPL cadets/pilots and the CAAP should step hard on any malpractice.

[chairwrecker]

@bagoongathipon
i don't know what you're saying so pardon my ignorance. last i heard, while everybody was happily moving out, those chaps were being left behind. which puzzled me no end as CA is supposed to be owned by Brits and Sings of India descent.

[Bennyboy1]

Several months ago the Indian MPL cadets from Clark were part of the first group of cadets to travel to Sharjah for interview/assessment by Air Arabia. They were with the 3 Baharaini's. The 3 Baharaini's were found acceptable and commenced ground school (EP's, DG's etc) immediately and are well into line training (46 sectors).

Last month the four Indian MPL cadets from Clark were called back to Sharjah to commence ground school and line training (IOE).
Next month the next group go the Sharjah for interview/assessment. So far all cadets (both Cebu Pacific and non Cebu Pacific) who have been issued MPL licences have been accepted into airlines.

The shortage of pilots in the Philippines along with the airline's policy of only employing nationals has meant full employment for all. In fact, there is still a shortage, especially commanders. Now as for their terms and conditions, well thats another matter but at least they are in.

[chairwrecker]

bennyboy
if that is correct, congratulations to all the cadets! tough road indeed, you deserve all the success you will get. cheers!

[Bagoongathipon]

@bennyboy
Spoiler! haha

@everyone,
I think everyone knows that there's really a shortage of pilots these days and the upcoming years. That is what CIA has anticipated. What happend the past 3-4years was a really really rough ride for MPLers. It may be because of bad management, bad program or just because the program is one of the first of its kind. I guess its inevitable. Airlines need pilots with type rating. Whether MPL training is better than the traditional SPL-PPL-CPL-ATPL or not, MPL still have the type rating. And the way I see it now, its a pilot's market now. That the pilot's have the upper hand. As long as he has the license, rating and currency.

..and since its a pilot market, lets just be happy for the pilots rather than pull them down. As long as you get a type rating and hours.. you are in demand!

Now if you ask if MPL pilots are ready for emergencies, PF duties, PNF duties, F/O duties, etc etc. I guess its the airline's job/responsibility to make sure that they are ready.

As one of the directors in one of the airline said, "They have the brains to do it!" So, why underestimate them? Why overestimate them? They're just the same pilots as the one who came from the traditional route, in a way that not all are good, not all are bad, some are really good, and some commits alot of mistakes, some learn fast, some learn really slow. But in time, in 1500hours or so.. what differs an MPL pilot with 1500hours of A320 flying against a CPL with 1500hours of flying with all sorts of single engine/multi engine aircraft? Who is better and worse? For me, its not in the program, but its in the pilot. How he copes up with the airline environment.

But, atleast, with MPL, you get to the airline after your training rather than going through what SPL-PPL-CPL has gone through. Its because of technology to be able to train pilots on aircrafts airlines use. For me, thats the only difference.

[rq4globalhawk]

"That is what CIA has anticipated"

With due respect, I don't think so Sir ... Clark Av was just lucky the hiring cycle came up in time for the MPL'ers ... a bit late for some but better late than never ... their crystal ball isn't that good at all, or anybody else's

[Bagoongathipon]

@rq4globalhawk
let me rephrase what I said...

It was ICAO that has anticipated the shortage of pilots and access to new technologies which paved the way to develop a new training program. And in which Clark Aviation has ventured in.

ICAO did not have any crystal ball (I hope so) and based this new program on facts.
1. A global shortage of pilots is an eventuality.
2. A predicted fleet growth of 17,000 aircrafts is anticipated by 2020
3. The last ICAO review of pilot training standard occured in 1948
4. Technology advances have facilitated changes in training standards.

..and with you're comment of Clark Aviation being lucky? I dont think so. The company and the students also struggled to make these things work also.

[Bagoongathipon]

Maybe you are right. Its just luck. Because in the aviation industry.. everyone says that their just lucky, right?!

[traveller93]

Benny.

"Several months ago the Indian MPL cadets from Clark were part of the first group of cadets to travel to Sharjah for interview/assessment by Air Arabia. They were with the 3 Baharaini's. The 3 Baharaini's were found acceptable and commenced ground school (EP's, DG's etc) immediately and are well into line training (46 sectors)."

Lots of material for some thoughts.... but 46 sectors in how many months? Well... if they fly always 4 hour sectors (which I doubt), that makes less than 200 hrs total flying time. As it appears, its a rather slow IOE program.

Don't you think so?

I hope the other guys will have a better chance to get the needed hours and sectors much faster and take their rightful place on the RH seat.

[chairwrecker]

@bagoongathipon
assuming all your points are correct (i still reserve my own judgments until validation is made on the current MPLers), the point is CA's difficulties in large part were due to its own making. they took a lot of liberties in implementing their MPL program. and im being nice in my words. :p

[Bagoongathipon]

@Chairwrecker
I agree with you 100% that the difficulties were of Clark Aviation's wrong doings. The way I saw and experienced it since 2006, It seems and looked that they just ventured in it without carefully studying the cadet program and their business plan. Its like they just have the money and cebupac agreed on taking on the first cadets and experienced everything along the way.

But no matter how disappointed i was with the first, 2nd and 3rd management of Clark Av, spending 3years in schooling, im glad that the last management I dealt with has solved its problems along the way.

With all the problems we encountered, the years spent trying to resolve these problems.. It was still the easier path compared to what the general aviation pilots has gone through. (and I have so much respect on how they endured just to be able to join the airline industry).

So, is MPL the easier path? compared to SPL-PPL-CPL... INDEED. Is the program better? We have our own opinions unless a response from the different airline instructor/chief pilots who has MPL flying with them. I believe they will be the most credible people to ask to.

[traveller93]

Well, we are now in December and ready for un update on the CIA progress in the resolution of the outstanding issues.

Any volunteers to provide some news?

[toffeebuenafe]

Marketing dept informed me that their CPL/IR is back. They put it on-hold for the last 2 months because they cant compete using avgas while most schools use mogas. Sorry clark av, i just dont buy that ****. Good luck to the poor souls who plan to enroll there =)

[malirm]

HI guys,

I've been reading through most of this thread...alots of people are stabbing the MPL & the way of the training (being Negative)...and they have the right (NO DOUBT) & others like me, are positive about it, while SOME others! are just Observing.

Just to make my Point(s)...I sat with one of the People who made a part of the MPL training Manual/Curriculum...etc. You'll be impressed that this kind of training was used LONG time ago...by whom? By the US Airforce & NASA...yep, this is how they train the Fighter Pilots...all around the world!

Ground School (3 months instead), 70hrs of flight time, Simulators...then the TOs & landings, then a Medal & a rank!

This method is used until this moment...MPL is the CIVIL version of such a training...what better outcome can you expect? The Key is the selection process at the very beginning, i.e. the cadets & thats it! You'll get a human being who is capable of handling a Hi-Tech machine, this time with Passengers in peaceful skies :ok:

[chairwrecker]

@malirm
i think we're past that discussion. MPL has been accepted (although only by a few CAAs while the others are of wait and see position), cadets trained, and pilots hired. we should now be validating their performance. how's your own training going on?

[malirm]

I know that, I just wanted to share what I had about the MPL :ok:

As you know, I am doing my MPL in Alpha Aviation Academy UAE (CA's Sister Company)...the training will be commencing on the coming Monday, after approx. 44 days off (as we did our flight training on the C172S with CA...took us 5 months in the Wet season, that made us ask for such a vacation :))

Still have the MCC, then A320 Sim & finally the 12 TOs & Landings done with Air Arabia + 40 Sectors with them...hope we'll be diluted with Air Arabia Crew by the time we finish the 40 Sectors...If you were asking why 40 Sectors as compared with outcomers (CA MPL & CPL/IR), this is because we were already trained by Air Arabia Captains using Air Arabia SOPs all the way from MCC...

Just to make the Long Story Short, what I can see & have seen, the MPL training is being Shifted to UAE (Promising Market), while PPL, CPL/IR & Frozen ATPL courses will be commenced at CA (MPL will be for sponsored guys ONLY from now on)...heard that something will happen in Australia in 2011 :)

Wish You all the Best...whether MPLers or CPLers...:ok:

[traveller93]

Another festive season is coming by and the hope is that the new year will bring, finally, good tidings to all those affected by the never ending CIA saga.

What are the predictions??

MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR to all.

Traveller93

[toffeebuenafe]

any news and updates regarding clark av progress?

[onieangeles]

whats wrong with the students of clark av, try to improve your students guys wake up instructors your students became headache of captains in zest and cebupac they dont even know how to communicate with tower.
so dont even think about it applying in tiger for direct A319 entry

[ILSystem]

your jealous because they are flying airbus and your not hahaha... just stick to dornier!

[Airstink]

Well, at least Dornier pilots aren't just button-pushers who know no other approaches than an ILSystem approach. :mad:

[JAMUP]

Hi there,

So far I ve seen comments about the MPL, and some cadets ( bahrain and Indian ) getting jobs at Air Arabia.

I was sent an email from Clark last month about their A320 FOT programme and mentioned they have an agreement with Air Arabia, Cebu, Zenair, etc etc ...

So can somebody please tell me how organise and how true this programme is ( CPL/IR/A320 rating ) and NOT the MPL. Since I have the CPl/ME IR already I want to know the true and the reliable picture to do the A 320 rating and then get employment with the airlines they have mentioned. Has any of these Airlines taken Clark Cadets who have done the traditional CPL/IR and the A320 rating with them. Please Pm me for any confidential news regarding interveiws , age etc .....

Cheers

[Bagoongathipon]

Only Dvo, BCD, Clark and ILO are with ILS in the Philippines. FYI.

And you're still stucked with the Dornier.

[chairwrecker]

@JAMUP
"Has any of these Airlines taken Clark Cadets who have done the traditional CPL/IR and the A320 rating with them"

So far, none. you will be the guinea pig. nothing bad being the guinea pig, per se, but maybe you can ask them for discount or a staggered payment scheme where you pay, say, the last couple of dollars once their "partner airlines" show you the employment contract? whatever works, just nego with them as they also need u to validate their program. remember it's always easy for schools to say they have tie ups with so and so airline until it's time for the graduates to apply....

also what is Zenair? :ok:

[chairwrecker]

Tiger has tie up with STATA for the MPL in Ballarat/Singapore so i don't understand what onieangeles is trying to raise. is it against the MPL? against Clark Av? against a particular Clark Av cadet?

[x_feed]

@ chairwrecker

Tiger has tie up with STATA for the MPL in Ballarat/Singapore so i don't understand what onieangeles is trying to raise. is it against the MPL? against Clark Av? against a particular Clark Av cadet?


Oddly Specific?! :confused:

[subsonic69]

have a look in the mirror dear sir... before you point out the mistakes of others.

if you really are a pilot, then I have to say your english $ucks.

[toffeebuenafe]

how are the MPL graduates of clark aviation doing? are all of them flying already with the airlines that sponsored them?

[Thunderbolt49]

toffeebuenafe

Dear Sir,

I suggest you drop by the offices of Clark so you'll get firsthand information. It might not be as bad or as good as you think re progress of MPL cadets.

Have a great day !!

Thunderbolt49

[chairwrecker]

@xfeed
i was suspicious that the guy just posted the usual ignorant ranting against everyone AND no one. :)

[toffeebuenafe]

can you just post it here instead? it doesnt matter whether i get it first hand or not.

[Thunderbolt49]

What exactly would you like to know?

I will ask around while I am here in Clark Av.

[fernandeztv]

Happy 2011 to all! :ok:a bit late i know...but i have been busy flying :)

I cannot reveal much but all i can say is that we MPLs at the Middle East are having a great time. Line training is tough but also very enjoyable (did i forget to mention tiring at times ;))

The variety in the sectors is very good for the training. One day we fly to Kenya crossing the Equator and the next day to India. Had a great beginning for 2011...flew to Almaty (Kazakhstan) for a white snowy new year's flight.

To my fellow cadets in Cebu and Zest...great to know that most of you are released...:D Happy flying and safe landings.

ILS button pushers?Yes and No! My first ever PF flt...i got an NDB approach at the high alt Destination at night. Yes we have to push buttons for an ILS approach...but just button pushing will not help! The other night we were held at FL310 till 45 nm from the Destination. We also had a 105 kts tail wind. Had a bunch of traffic below us getting in and out of DXB. The descent was fun...well atleast for all of us in the flight deck! A little bit of helpful wide vectoring and hand flying the aircraft all the way down with full speed brakes till flaps 2 did the trick. Bottom line is all of us are having fun flying and learning new things every day.

All of this would not have been possible if our foundation was not strong enough! For that i extend my gratitude to all my instructors back at Clark AV...and i am not forgetting my core flying days FIs as well. If not for you we would not be here on the shiny jets! If not for the school we would not have landed this gig in the middle east! So Shukran, Dhanyawad, Salamat Po, Muchos Gracias, Merci Beaucoup...THANK YOU to all involved in getting us where we are today! :ok:

[paolylo]

after all that's been said about CA's MPL program, i wonder why no one's ever talked about those fresh graduate SIA cadets being rated to fly, take-off, and land B744 (http://airlinespilot.com/viewtopic.php?t=74&sid=7923542c3a15aed5654581ca5554d0b8)'s? those guys have just as much single engine aircraft hours as PAL Av's Ab-Initio cadets and they have been doing it even before the MPL existed. i think that's an even bigger jump than whatever CA MPL's do with the A320. is it because they're Singaporean and we're just Filipinos?

@fernandeztv
nice to know we all went somewhere despite the chaos we've all been through :ok:

[chairwrecker]

wait is that the sound of onieangeles' jaws dropping to the floor in envy at fernandeztv?

sorry just couldn't resist the jab. happy flying to everyone! :cool:

[chairwrecker]

these stories of success are very nice to hear. really very happy for them.

what i'm actually concerned now are those who didn't make it. heard before about those who didn't finish the MPL training in Clark. recently i just heard from the grapevine that one female MPLer in 5J got sacked without completing IOE. is it true?

[toffeebuenafe]

how many female MPLers are there in CIA?

[chairwrecker]

2? 5? 10? does it matter? :ok:

[Reedeye]

Chairwrecker,

The grapevine
is true

[traveller93]

Glad that this thread has come alive again.

Are all the "veteran" (non-sponsored) cadets done or busy with the IOE or are there some that are still waiting?

By what Fernandez says, it seems that he is quite happy with the experience.

[toffeebuenafe]

are their PPL/CPL students enrolled in clark aviation already?

[Thunderbolt49]

toffeebuenafe

There are 6 CPL/IR, 2 PPL and 1 CPL students at Clark Aviation now.

Almost all of the non-sponsored cadets are done with their training.
5 are with Air Philippines
7 with Air Arabia
over 10 with Zest Airways
2 awaiting invitation from local airlines
1 Jordanian, 1 Portugese and 1 Malaysian awaiting processing with Air Arabia ?
1 cadet awaiting partner for Base Training at Cyprus

The ones who have been waiting more than a year for Base Training are 9 0f Cebu Pacific sponsored cadets.

4 Filipino FOT graduates are awaiting processing with Air Philippines
3 Egyptians - 2 are now with Air Memphis in Egypt and no info on the 3rd one.



NOTE: gathered this info thru casual conversations with people around CA. Will update you again after 6 months. Fly Safely Everyone!

[toffeebuenafe]

what is this FOT program by clark av? and there are 4 graduates already of the said course?

thanks thunderbolt.

[Thunderbolt49]

toffeebuenafe

You are most welcome!

I believe FOT means First Officer Training - for pilots with CPL/IR who would like to become First Officer on the A320.

4 Filipinos and 3 Egyptians have graduated (as per the people at CA)

[traveller93]

Thunderbolt49

It seems that quite a lot of MPLrs have managed to find an employment niche in the Philippines. Good for them and for those that are already doing the IOE with Air Arabia.

But there a still a few (all foreigners) that seem to be in limbo (waiting, waiting....) and not knowing when finally things will happen. What is CIA doing about these guys? After all, it is CIA's responsibilty to resolve the issue.

With so many opportunities coming up in the Philippines, is it so difficult for CIA to get them a RH seat position in the local operators? Why can't they be employed locally? Is there a law that impedes foreigners being employed as pilots in the Philippines?

If that is the case, it is a shame coming from a country that has millions of emigrants making a living (many as pilots) around the whole world.

CIA will not manage to clean its slate until ALL the MPL pioneers are placed in the commercial aviation.

Those poor guys don't deserve such treatment from a company that was very quick to take their money!!!!

Thanks, Thunderbolt, for being one of the few that don't try to brush the dirt under the carpet.

[x1alpha66]

any news on the 5J that undershot the runway in Puerto Princesa with a new captain & an MPL FO?

[Thunderbolt49]

When did this happen?

[chairwrecker]

was it an under or an overshoot? is it true the tires exploded (as per news TV) or did the NLG collapse?

[subsonic69]

chair.. its an overshoot ( according to the janitor who knows the janitor in PPS )

the Nose Landing Gear did not collapse, but some of the people I know are there now to replace the whole Nose Landing Gear assembly..

Although whats funny is I can't seem to find any news regarding that incident anywhere. ( maybe my googling skills aint that good ) or 5J is really that good in covering things up.

Heard also that the PIC is one of the best in 5J's ranch.. I wonder what happened for this incident to happen..

Hmmm...:ugh:

you wanna name names ?? I wouldnt LOL..

Oh. I was wondering what is happening also to 5J's AMO (maintenance organization) . heard that they also have an aircraft grounded in Incheon yesterday due to the engine not starting..

Guess its true that most of their so-called elite mechanics transferred to Airphil Express, along with some Captains and F/Os.

BTW, Lufthansa is also taking over Aircraft Maintenance of their ATR's. I was wondering if they will also be taking over the Airbuses within this year.
:confused:

[subsonic69]

although I think its also a commercial tactic since they also caused the PAL flight from PPS to be cancelled because of that incident. :p

SMART!!! :D := :}

[chairwrecker]

subsonic69
since this is an overshoot, i would be more interested about the MPL FO's landing skills rather than the AMO, don't you think? :ok:

by the way. no need to name names. if you're in the loop i'm sure guys already know who they are. if u don't know them, u probably have no business to know. :E

[subsonic69]

point taken dear sir ;)

[chairwrecker]

can i just say cebu pac is shameless the way they're covering up this incident? they keep saying that the weather at that time was stormy when in fact the metor reported visibility of 5-10km. what a bunch of bull!:mad: just wait till i get a copy of that met report!

[Bagoongathipon]

To answer some question..

First of all, I Just went to Puerto Prinsensa yesterdeay. It was not an overshoot.

Secondly, dont be concerned about the MPLs landing skills... thats the least to worry about.

Lastly, its a captains runway and its was the captain who landed the plane.

[traveller93]

This thread was sidetracked to the landing incident just because someone thinks an MPL pilot was onboard....

What about returning to the original objective?

There's more to CIA than to prove "how bad" the MPLrs are. Lots of wrongs to correct.....

[onieangeles]

it is the skill of MPLs to blame, the lack of training they have for the A320 procedure. good luck to other airlines getting the services of MPL graduates. Here in seair i guarantee there will be no MPLs for the A320

[Thunderbolt49]

onieangeles

"it is the skill of MPLs to blame, the lack of training they have for the A320 procedure. good luck to other airlines getting the services of MPL graduates. Here in seair i guarantee there will be no MPLs for the A320"

Wow naman onieangeles!! how could you say such things? have you experienced the training in CA? and how could you say "it is the skills of MPLs to blame"? your flying credentials must be awesome!! CP of DO328 with SEAir? instructor too? you must have logged tens of thousands of hours? tell us how you could make such conclusions...and you can guarantee there will be no MPLs for the ?A320 in ? SEAir? You own SEAir too?

Please enlighten us....

By the way, what specific A320 procedure do you have in mind?

[rq4globalhawk]

it is the skill of MPLs to blame, the lack of training they have for the A320 procedure. good luck to other airlines getting the services of MPL graduates. Here in seair i guarantee there will be no MPLs for the A320

The MPLs went through the fast track - what most of them lack is "real" flying ... I'd give them a few months to a year of flying to level the playing field before passing judgment, if ever.


I've flown with 25,000-hour pilots who are basket cases (couldn't even pass second officer training).

I've flown with 3,000-hour+ pilots who I reckon are ready for widebody command .. and my fellow TRI/TREs express the same opinion


So if I have to assess someone, I wouldn't care if he went through the CPL/IR route or the MPL route - I focus only on the person's performance during the specific time frame he/she is with me.


I've had loudmouths who mess up when they're in the hot seat
I've had meek, silent types who keep cool and perform well under pressure.

In the end it all depends on the person's aptitude, intelligence, discipline and how he applied all of these during those hundreds or thousands of hours.

I wouldn't pass judgment on MPLs unless I've flown with one ... and I have .. also with all sorts of pilots for the last few decades.

I also wouldn't give a blanket judgment - only on that one person.

I don't consider myself qualified to make sweeping conclusions.

[chairwrecker]

guys i think by now we all should know a wind up post when we see one. just ignore the ignoramus. i actually have doubts that the person is really employed in that airline.

also apologies for previously hinting it was the MPL cadet who was handling the plane. up to now my contacts won't confirm who was actually doing the landing. seems it's being treated as a cebupac state secret, though bagoongathipon has stated it must have been the captain.

[Bagoongathipon]

Its the captain alright. Based on my personal observation, they wont even do a straight visual approach, intercept downwind or intercept base in KLO even on a 9999 visibility. How much more let a beginner captain land an MPL on a captains runway? plus the factors that would make the captain decide to take over the control/perform a go around.

lastly, they have foms. If it was the FO who landed, they would have been fired right now and make news here!

[traveller93]

Bagoongathipon

What a pity you edited your original post..... very well written, it was.

But since you are a 500hr MPLr, what about pushing CIA to fulfill their obligations towards your course colleagues that are pining for an IOE chance?

What a shame CIA is!!!!

[chairwrecker]

officially this is the 996th post in this thread. is it a testament to CIA (then CA) stamina or to the depth of their enduring crises? :E

some successes have been noted, but still as traveller rightly takes pains to remind everyone, this school has scammed 100+ cadets and up to now, a significant number have still not received what was promised to them.

when will things ever end? :ugh:

[Bagoongathipon]

What Ive written was too long. It will be subject to misinterpretations, loopholes and alike. Leading to endless and senseless debate.

[traveller93]

Well..... it was your post and you can do whatever you want with it. But I liked it as you exposed some misconceptions that some "astronauts" have regarding the MPL.

My questions remains though... what about your colleagues that are still suffering without any prospects of a job?

This is a question to all and sundry that frequent this forum and avoid the subject like the plague.

The whole pilot community should rise against the conmen that have and are running CIA and bring about a class criminal case agains them. And everybody knows who and where they are!!!

[rq4globalhawk]

The whole pilot community should rise against the conmen that have and are running CIA and bring about a class criminal case agains them. And everybody knows who and where they are!!!

Oh my gosh ... pardon my ignorance Sir ... may I know who the present ones are?

[xxfl350xx]

FYI the same ones that are managing CA now are the same ones from back in the early day's. Im sure your source in CA can elaborate and confirm.....
But I can understand Travellers posts pretty well, and I do simpathise with what Traveller is saying.

Unfortunately one must remember that the ones that are working, are actually the ones who were 100% or 50% sponsored, either by Cebu Pac or CA themselves. They will never do any kind of law suite cause they know that getting an airline job with that kind of deal is a dream come true, Bagoongathipon im sure you know how lucky you and your class mates are right. (in that aspect I do wish you all the best :D).

But what about the ones that are self sponsored, most of them are still waiting, the ones that paid.... they deserve the same opportunity right... Its Clark's lack of initiative and complacency that is delaying those students...

All in all the MPL training that was done at CA is above standard, and there are some very qualified pilots that have proven already that the program and training works. (working so well it seems to be intimidating some of the pilots still flying the turbo props).

[rq4globalhawk]

... everybody knows who and where they are!!!
... now that really makes me insecure, the whole community knows and I don't ... may I know at least the initials?
----------------------------------------------------
the same ones that are managing CA now are the same ones from back in the early day's. Im sure your source in CA can elaborate and confirm.....
My source tells me otherwise .. says it's easy to criticize from the bleachers ... there have been several changes in management since 2007 and the people who made the promises are no longer there so their task is to fix the mess.

May I know who these people (the ones who are still there) are so I can avoid the lying complacent varmints like the plague?

I know some MPL pilots - they're in four airlines - I'll get a better picture when I get their story. It'll take some time though - we're all busy flying, specially with Chinese New Year just around the corner - .恭喜發財 Kung Hei Fat Choy to everyone!

[xxfl350xx]

Its true, there have been several changes in the management since 2007. Just in the GM department they must have changed half a dozen times by now....:ugh::ugh:.
But its no secret that Alpha Aviation has been running CA since day one. Its simple really, follow the bread crumbs and it will lead you to the puppet master. Im not here to point fingers or name names... more than enough of that has been done in the last 50 odd pages of this forum. Im just stating the obvious here that the same key people that started this company are still around pulling all the strings....
Globalhawk is right, better to know who they really are, just to be able to avoid the complacent varmints...dont see what more could be done in that aspect....
The MPL'ers that I have Flown with until now have not once disappointed me in their abilities and knowledge. Keep up the great work and to those who are still waiting:ok::ok:

[chairwrecker]

IMHO, i think the MPL works. it's unfortunate that CA has given it a bad name.

in the future i hope another operator in the philippines can start a new MPL sponsorship program but with totally credible guys to run the show right off the bat.