"Fully ready" ??

[esreverlluf]

Is the term "Fully ready" included in the AIP of any country?
I seem to be hearing it more and more of late and it is certainly not part of the Australian AIP nor of any of the Asian, Pacific and US AIPs.
I quite often hear aircraft reporting "Fully ready" to the tower or today an aircraft that was "Fully ready for pushback" - to me this sounds like tautology at its best, but I guess if it is what you do where you come from, then it might be a hard habit to break. It often seems to be BA and Emirates making these calls.:}

[Aussie]

I wouldnt mind knowing the reasoning behind this myself, but i have been told its in the JAR OPS... not sure why though! Some aircraft report fully ready while others dont :confused:

[mustafagander]

We hear it a lot in the UK - "fully ready", "fully established", fully parked" etc. - always worth a chuckle!! :}

It seems to be sneaking into use a bit in OZ too. :ugh:

[parabellum]

The usual course of events is as follows:

On ATC Clearance freq: From Ground, " Aircraft ABCD, Read back correct, call ground on 123.89 when fully ready"

Fully Ready means all doors and hatches closed, a tug and an engineer are connected and you are 'Fully Ready', just awaiting 'the word' from ATC.

Next call is usually on Ground Movement Control Freq:

"Ground, this is Aircraft ABCD, stand H34 fully ready"

If there are no slot times and traffic allows you will usually get the instruction to push and start, otherwise you will get a "Roger Aircraft ABCD, standby for push and start" or a repeat of your slot time so you sit and wait for them to call you back, they know who and where you are and they have to fit you in to the puzzle.

Abuse of the system may have some bearing on the use of the now common expression, "Call fully ready". I can remember sitting on a remote stand at Palma Majorca, all buttoned up and waiting to go, when the Spantax DC9 next pan called for start, he was given it, only problem was the last bus from the terminal was still to arrive, baggage still to be loaded etc. etc., we were told we were #2 to the Spantax!

There is a nightly armada of heavy jets from the Far East all heading for Europe at very adjacent departure times and the competition for levels is stiff, calling for start when doors are still open has happened, hence the request, "Call when fully ready".

Sorry, long winded but it is a very old practice in congested areas and airports.

[esreverlluf]

Where I come from and the in the parts of the world I fly to, and indeed in the English language, "Ready" is an absolute term. One is either ready or not ready, there is no inbetween.
We don't ask for pushback until we are ready to push, we don't tell the tower that we are ready until we are ready, the concept of calling a bit ready, or not quite ready is meaningless!
If the conecpt of "Fully ready" is written an AIP or similar publication somewhere then it is perhaps forgiveable, otherwise it is just another piece of verbal nonsense that has somehow snuck into common useage cluttering up the airways.
:ugh:

[Caudillo]

And where will it all end?

I'm thinking that this matter is not really quite worth this opprobrium?

[old,not bold]

This habit isn't confined to aviation...

What the "fully" means, especially if lightly emphasised, is "please don't call "ready" until you really are, ie don't try to get smart and and jump the queue by calling ready when you're halfway though the checks, otherwise you'll waste my time, others' time and yours. I know bloody well it's tautologous, but if that bothers you, get a life, I don't care".

"Call when fully ready" is shorter.

[parabellum]

I do agree that it is a shame that this expression has come into common use but it has come about for the reasons I have already explained, abuse of the system by people trying to enhance their position in a very crowded and busy environment, an environment that, from my experience, simply doesn't exist in Australia or New Zealand.

[speedrestriction]

Mustafagander "fully established", while not in CAP 413 is reasonably legitimate ie. to distinguish between being established on the localiser and being established on the localiser and glidepath.

sr

[Sir George Cayley]

Fully Ready when out of sight of GMC can include all doors open, baggage still being loaded and catering yet to arrive.

But it's OK, when the competition for the route on the next stand are still doing the walk round:ok:

Sir George Cayley

[Aussie]

Sounds like a term used in busy environments such as Europe ect for the reasons mentioned, however i dont see how it made the aussie airwaves...:ugh:

[Dream Land]

I am working in Asia, at my base this is what happens:
A/C- "Tower, aircraft 123 taxiing to holding point RWxx."
(No traffic within 20 miles)
TWR- "aircraft 123, line up RWxx, report when ready."
A/C-(while taxiing to runway) "Aircraft 123 is ready."
Here is where the problem begins, I have already informed them that we are ready, once lined up on the runway I now have to repeat to the tower that I am FULLY ready, or I will sit in position for days! I feel this is mainly due to the fact that they do not speak or understand English. :ugh:
I think this phrase probably originates from this part of the world.

[esreverlluf]

What a crock - so from the replies so far, I'm guessing this isn't written anywhere and that its just a degree of complexity added by those wishing to indicate that they may be at a heightened state of readiness compared to others.

I suppose the next thing will be "Completely, fully ready" or "I'm more ready than he is". Why can't people just stick to the rules!

[Dream Land]

added by those wishing to indicate that they may be at a heightened state of readiness compared to others. From my point of view, you have it wrong, it's a language problem and a Asian mind set.

[henry crun]

You can argue the semantics until the cows come home, but you are either ready or you are not.

[mustafagander]

Speedy, I take your point, but I am regularly "established" on the ILS as per AIP but level underneath the G/S. Most ATCOs want to know my lateral position as their priority - my vertical position can be readily inferred by my clearance altitude during an approach. If it really is causing concern I would expect "...cleared descent to NNNft, report maintaining".

Henry sums it up. Sort of like pregnancy, isn't it?? :ok:

To most of us in Oz it's just a British quirk, rather like THE speedbird nnn. :E

[Caudillo]

Bloody hell guys, this sounds more like a bunch of trainspotters rather than pilots. oh wait, no, they're the same thin...

[fireflybob]

I am working in Asia, at my base this is what happens:
A/C- "Tower, aircraft 123 taxiing to holding point RWxx."
(No traffic within 20 miles)
TWR- "aircraft 123, line up RWxx, report when ready."
A/C-(while taxiing to runway) "Aircraft 123 is ready."


Dream Land, what would your ATC do/say if you used the standard phraseology "Ready for Departure" or maybe you have to say "Fully Ready for Departure"?!

[parabellum]

Nothing British about it, it started in Spain about forty years ago and has spread to those regions that have high density traffic, so obviously not Australia and it certailnly doesn't originate in Asia either, though now widely used there.

esreverlluf - I do believe you are a bit of a Troll!;)

Blame the Spanish!.

[Sir George Cayley]

I think the main culprit is Eurocontrol who, when setting up the CFMU, required a phrase to initiate the process of slot co-ordination.

When the Euro Iron Brain issues a CTOT, based off flow prediction, it needs an instruction to re-look at that particular flight/route to see if anything has changed.

Clearly, any improvement in slot offered to the departure point has to be capable of being acted on, otherwise the exercise was in vain.

Hence, "Fully ready" means something to CFMU. In effect, that the a/c is capable of accepting a slot improvement there and then. That is why a number of European airports have a push and park procedure (though persuading some Captains to severe the umbilical cord of an airbridge and go remote is sometimes impossible)

And that is why abuse of the phrase in Europe gets on ATC's nerve a tad when crews try gamesmanship to get ahead of the rush.

I'm now fully ready to be shot down!:hmm:

Sir George Cayley

[liklikrokrok]

"fully sick"..."fully going off"...I think "fully ready" is the coolest:cool: at the moment.think about it..if you're not "fully ready" 'then its not "fully happening";)

[hvogt]

It's an often heard phrase in Germany. It seems to me that many pilots whose first language isn't English dont' think much about the meaning. They just hear it from the English colleagues and ape them.

[loubylou]

Once had an aircraft report ready - so I gave push clearance.
When I queried with the crew why they had not pushed, because I was holding an inbound, they said they had no ground crew. When I asked them not to request push until they were ready - they told me that they were ready - but waiting for the tug, therefore - report fully ready!

louby

[esreverlluf]

Maybe you should have just required them to;

"request pushback (and start[if req])";

when they really were ready. I suspect they would feel suitably admonished and soon get the idea.

Standard phraseology saves time and ambiguity, but only if people will be so good as to use it (or at least a reasonably close approximation)!:ugh:

[parabellum]

Dare I say it? If you were to get out a bit more into the big wide world of very busy aviation you may well discover that, officially published or not, "Report fully ready" is already standard phraseology!;)

[esreverlluf]

Thank you - that is exactly my point - if its not published then its not standard and should be avoided. Ask any training and checking mob.

Radio clutter and ambiguity just gives me the sh1ts (oh, and I enjoy winding you blokes up).
;):E

[Capt Pit Bull]

Seemed to evolve where I used to work during times of delay, where otherwise you would get a chicken and egg situation, i.e:
1. You are loaded, fuelled, closed up, all set, EXCEPT no tug.
2. You can't get a tug because they won't send you one and have it sitting with you UNLESS you are in the queue for start.
3. You can't get in the queue for start because you have no tug.
4. Because you aren't in the queue, you can't get a tug.
repeat 3 and 4 ad infinitum.

Personally, I used to declare myself 'ready', get in the queue for start, then be able to get in the queue to be sent a tug, then declare 'fully' ready once it arrived.

Probably not technically correct, but some sort of compromise is necessary when airfield delays run up to a couple of hours on a bad day.

So the basic issue is handling agents that won't put you in the queue for a tug unless you are in the queue for start.

The other time you'd hear it used would be in the context of "we actually *are* ready unlike the guys to the left of us, that you've told us to push after, who are still loading fuel and bags inspite of having declared themselves ready and beinmg cleared for pushback"

pb

[Old Smokey]

Having read through these threads, I decided to search through CAP 413 (Radiotelephony Procedures) until my eyes hurt, and nowhere, absolutely nowhere did I find the phrase "Fully Ready". What's more, nowhere, absolutely nowhere did I find the word "Ready" in any context other than "Ready for Departure" or "Ready for Takeoff".

Clearance for push-back, start, taxy etc., are prefaced with the word "Request", NOT "Ready".

Whilst CAP 413 does not apply to all the world's operations, those that I do know utilise the word "Ready" EXCLUSIVELY in the context of "Ready for Takeoff or Departure".

Maybe someone can find an alternative reference, but I can't.:confused:

Standing by for results from smarter researchers.

Regards,

Old Smokey

[esreverlluf]

Thanks Smokey - I think that's what I was trying to say a few posts back, but you have put it better.

My own perusal of the World Wide Text and several on-line AIPs also support the above.

I regularly operate to some of the world's busiest airports (though not recently in Europe) and the phenomena of the "Fully ready" tautology is fairly new to me and I think must be a European subculture thing.

[parabellum]

Well in some parts of the world their is a genuine need for it so let's have an amendment with explanation as to usage.

[Snoopy2]

For info, Larnaca Tower has a start-up procedure including the following phraseology: "Larnaca Tower (callsign of acft). Fully ready for start-up."

From Jepp Chart 10.9 26 Aug 05

[henry crun]

I think I have got my head around this now.

Being "ready" is one place below being "fully ready", so if someone says they are just "ready" they are not really "ready" but they will be when they say "fully ready".

Is that correct ? :confused:

[esreverlluf]

Ah - there's nothing quite like a hierachy of absolutes!:ugh: