"Fully ready" ??
"Fully ready" ??
Is the term "Fully ready" included in the AIP of any country?
I seem to be hearing it more and more of late and it is certainly not part of the Australian AIP nor of any of the Asian, Pacific and US AIPs.
I quite often hear aircraft reporting "Fully ready" to the tower or today an aircraft that was "Fully ready for pushback" - to me this sounds like tautology at its best, but I guess if it is what you do where you come from, then it might be a hard habit to break. It often seems to be BA and Emirates making these calls.
I seem to be hearing it more and more of late and it is certainly not part of the Australian AIP nor of any of the Asian, Pacific and US AIPs.
I quite often hear aircraft reporting "Fully ready" to the tower or today an aircraft that was "Fully ready for pushback" - to me this sounds like tautology at its best, but I guess if it is what you do where you come from, then it might be a hard habit to break. It often seems to be BA and Emirates making these calls.
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The usual course of events is as follows:
On ATC Clearance freq: From Ground, " Aircraft ABCD, Read back correct, call ground on 123.89 when fully ready"
Fully Ready means all doors and hatches closed, a tug and an engineer are connected and you are 'Fully Ready', just awaiting 'the word' from ATC.
Next call is usually on Ground Movement Control Freq:
"Ground, this is Aircraft ABCD, stand H34 fully ready"
If there are no slot times and traffic allows you will usually get the instruction to push and start, otherwise you will get a "Roger Aircraft ABCD, standby for push and start" or a repeat of your slot time so you sit and wait for them to call you back, they know who and where you are and they have to fit you in to the puzzle.
Abuse of the system may have some bearing on the use of the now common expression, "Call fully ready". I can remember sitting on a remote stand at Palma Majorca, all buttoned up and waiting to go, when the Spantax DC9 next pan called for start, he was given it, only problem was the last bus from the terminal was still to arrive, baggage still to be loaded etc. etc., we were told we were #2 to the Spantax!
There is a nightly armada of heavy jets from the Far East all heading for Europe at very adjacent departure times and the competition for levels is stiff, calling for start when doors are still open has happened, hence the request, "Call when fully ready".
Sorry, long winded but it is a very old practice in congested areas and airports.
On ATC Clearance freq: From Ground, " Aircraft ABCD, Read back correct, call ground on 123.89 when fully ready"
Fully Ready means all doors and hatches closed, a tug and an engineer are connected and you are 'Fully Ready', just awaiting 'the word' from ATC.
Next call is usually on Ground Movement Control Freq:
"Ground, this is Aircraft ABCD, stand H34 fully ready"
If there are no slot times and traffic allows you will usually get the instruction to push and start, otherwise you will get a "Roger Aircraft ABCD, standby for push and start" or a repeat of your slot time so you sit and wait for them to call you back, they know who and where you are and they have to fit you in to the puzzle.
Abuse of the system may have some bearing on the use of the now common expression, "Call fully ready". I can remember sitting on a remote stand at Palma Majorca, all buttoned up and waiting to go, when the Spantax DC9 next pan called for start, he was given it, only problem was the last bus from the terminal was still to arrive, baggage still to be loaded etc. etc., we were told we were #2 to the Spantax!
There is a nightly armada of heavy jets from the Far East all heading for Europe at very adjacent departure times and the competition for levels is stiff, calling for start when doors are still open has happened, hence the request, "Call when fully ready".
Sorry, long winded but it is a very old practice in congested areas and airports.
Where I come from and the in the parts of the world I fly to, and indeed in the English language, "Ready" is an absolute term. One is either ready or not ready, there is no inbetween.
We don't ask for pushback until we are ready to push, we don't tell the tower that we are ready until we are ready, the concept of calling a bit ready, or not quite ready is meaningless!
If the conecpt of "Fully ready" is written an AIP or similar publication somewhere then it is perhaps forgiveable, otherwise it is just another piece of verbal nonsense that has somehow snuck into common useage cluttering up the airways.
We don't ask for pushback until we are ready to push, we don't tell the tower that we are ready until we are ready, the concept of calling a bit ready, or not quite ready is meaningless!
If the conecpt of "Fully ready" is written an AIP or similar publication somewhere then it is perhaps forgiveable, otherwise it is just another piece of verbal nonsense that has somehow snuck into common useage cluttering up the airways.
This habit isn't confined to aviation...
What the "fully" means, especially if lightly emphasised, is "please don't call "ready" until you really are, ie don't try to get smart and and jump the queue by calling ready when you're halfway though the checks, otherwise you'll waste my time, others' time and yours. I know bloody well it's tautologous, but if that bothers you, get a life, I don't care".
"Call when fully ready" is shorter.
What the "fully" means, especially if lightly emphasised, is "please don't call "ready" until you really are, ie don't try to get smart and and jump the queue by calling ready when you're halfway though the checks, otherwise you'll waste my time, others' time and yours. I know bloody well it's tautologous, but if that bothers you, get a life, I don't care".
"Call when fully ready" is shorter.
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esreverluff
I do agree that it is a shame that this expression has come into common use but it has come about for the reasons I have already explained, abuse of the system by people trying to enhance their position in a very crowded and busy environment, an environment that, from my experience, simply doesn't exist in Australia or New Zealand.
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Mustafagander "fully established", while not in CAP 413 is reasonably legitimate ie. to distinguish between being established on the localiser and being established on the localiser and glidepath.
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I am working in Asia, at my base this is what happens:
A/C- "Tower, aircraft 123 taxiing to holding point RWxx."
(No traffic within 20 miles)
TWR- "aircraft 123, line up RWxx, report when ready."
A/C-(while taxiing to runway) "Aircraft 123 is ready."
Here is where the problem begins, I have already informed them that we are ready, once lined up on the runway I now have to repeat to the tower that I am FULLY ready, or I will sit in position for days! I feel this is mainly due to the fact that they do not speak or understand English.
I think this phrase probably originates from this part of the world.
A/C- "Tower, aircraft 123 taxiing to holding point RWxx."
(No traffic within 20 miles)
TWR- "aircraft 123, line up RWxx, report when ready."
A/C-(while taxiing to runway) "Aircraft 123 is ready."
Here is where the problem begins, I have already informed them that we are ready, once lined up on the runway I now have to repeat to the tower that I am FULLY ready, or I will sit in position for days! I feel this is mainly due to the fact that they do not speak or understand English.
I think this phrase probably originates from this part of the world.
What a crock - so from the replies so far, I'm guessing this isn't written anywhere and that its just a degree of complexity added by those wishing to indicate that they may be at a heightened state of readiness compared to others.
I suppose the next thing will be "Completely, fully ready" or "I'm more ready than he is". Why can't people just stick to the rules!
I suppose the next thing will be "Completely, fully ready" or "I'm more ready than he is". Why can't people just stick to the rules!
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added by those wishing to indicate that they may be at a heightened state of readiness compared to others.
Speedy, I take your point, but I am regularly "established" on the ILS as per AIP but level underneath the G/S. Most ATCOs want to know my lateral position as their priority - my vertical position can be readily inferred by my clearance altitude during an approach. If it really is causing concern I would expect "...cleared descent to NNNft, report maintaining".
Henry sums it up. Sort of like pregnancy, isn't it??
To most of us in Oz it's just a British quirk, rather like THE speedbird nnn.
Henry sums it up. Sort of like pregnancy, isn't it??
To most of us in Oz it's just a British quirk, rather like THE speedbird nnn.
I am working in Asia, at my base this is what happens:
A/C- "Tower, aircraft 123 taxiing to holding point RWxx."
(No traffic within 20 miles)
TWR- "aircraft 123, line up RWxx, report when ready."
A/C-(while taxiing to runway) "Aircraft 123 is ready."
A/C- "Tower, aircraft 123 taxiing to holding point RWxx."
(No traffic within 20 miles)
TWR- "aircraft 123, line up RWxx, report when ready."
A/C-(while taxiing to runway) "Aircraft 123 is ready."
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Nothing British about it, it started in Spain about forty years ago and has spread to those regions that have high density traffic, so obviously not Australia and it certailnly doesn't originate in Asia either, though now widely used there.
esreverlluf - I do believe you are a bit of a Troll!
Blame the Spanish!.
esreverlluf - I do believe you are a bit of a Troll!
Blame the Spanish!.
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I think the main culprit is Eurocontrol who, when setting up the CFMU, required a phrase to initiate the process of slot co-ordination.
When the Euro Iron Brain issues a CTOT, based off flow prediction, it needs an instruction to re-look at that particular flight/route to see if anything has changed.
Clearly, any improvement in slot offered to the departure point has to be capable of being acted on, otherwise the exercise was in vain.
Hence, "Fully ready" means something to CFMU. In effect, that the a/c is capable of accepting a slot improvement there and then. That is why a number of European airports have a push and park procedure (though persuading some Captains to severe the umbilical cord of an airbridge and go remote is sometimes impossible)
And that is why abuse of the phrase in Europe gets on ATC's nerve a tad when crews try gamesmanship to get ahead of the rush.
I'm now fully ready to be shot down!
Sir George Cayley
When the Euro Iron Brain issues a CTOT, based off flow prediction, it needs an instruction to re-look at that particular flight/route to see if anything has changed.
Clearly, any improvement in slot offered to the departure point has to be capable of being acted on, otherwise the exercise was in vain.
Hence, "Fully ready" means something to CFMU. In effect, that the a/c is capable of accepting a slot improvement there and then. That is why a number of European airports have a push and park procedure (though persuading some Captains to severe the umbilical cord of an airbridge and go remote is sometimes impossible)
And that is why abuse of the phrase in Europe gets on ATC's nerve a tad when crews try gamesmanship to get ahead of the rush.
I'm now fully ready to be shot down!
Sir George Cayley