Netjets (Europe) Interviews - All you need to know about it (threads merged)

[Dirtyharry]

desperately wanna work for netjets europe and would greatly appreciate any advise / info. on how to get my foot in the door .
my experience totals 1700tt, 500 turbine. uk atpl. thanks...............

[V2Rote8]

In Flight International 26/10/99 NetJets were looking for FO's: EU ATPL, 1500 TT,250 ME. Suggest send your CV with copies of ATPL & last medical to the Chief Pilot.

Fax +351214468455 or
Email [email protected]

They are slow to answer! I'm still waiting for a reply from them - best of luck

[This message has been edited by V2Rote8 (edited 11 December 1999).]

[V2Rote8]

Finger trouble I repeated the previous reply

[This message has been edited by V2Rote8 (edited 11 December 1999).]

[Atlantic bart.]

My mate applied in early September and got an invitation to interview three months later! I guess they're snowed under.

[Dirtyharry]

any idea on what they pay their f/o's and capt.s and what the work schedule is like???

[Atlantic bart.]

The European situation may not be anything like the USA one, but the following URL might be of interest - it's the EJA (NetJets) USA pilots' union site! (amazing what you find surfing around...) There are some bits you can't get into without the password, but lots of good stuff available without it, USA salary scales, interview hints, some limited info on work patterns etc... www.ejapilots.com (http://www.ejapilots.com)

[Dirtyharry]

Cheers mate!!!!!!!

[bizjet pilot]

Netjets Europe, Ltd.
Piso 4
Galerias Alto da Berra
Avenida dos Descobertas
2780-053 Oeiras
Portugal

Email: [email protected], Mrs. Lina Vila

Send curriculum vitae to:

Miss or Mrs. Lina Vila l v i l a @ n e t j e t s . c o m
Pilot Recruitment
Netjets Europe, Ltd.
Piso 4
Galerias Alto da Berra
Avenida dos Descobertas
2780-053 Oeiras
Portugal

Be aware that your pilot supervisor will be
Mr. or Captain Skip Geddes, [email protected],
Director of European Operations

[EG]

I have been offered an interview with Netjets in Paris and will be based in Saudi.
Could anyone give me details of pay, aircraft,and general conditions at Netjets Middle East.
Thankyou All

[LAVDUMPER]

EG,

Netjets aircraft in the Middle East will be Hawker 800XP, Falcon 2000 and Gulfstream IV/V aircraft with the possiblilty of adding BBJs.

Not sure about pay or living conditions.

Sounds like some nice corporate iron to fly - have fun!

Regards

[Jimmy the Pilot]

Can anyone give me some info on NetJets as an employer please? E.g. rosters, pay etc., what they are like as an employer etc. Any info much appreciated!

[mr blue sky]

Jimmy, I have tried on several occasions to elicit some info from Netjets people, either Europe or Middle East, all to no avail. I suspect apathy reigns.......

[LAVDUMPER]

Jimmy the Pilot,

Although I am not a NetJets pilot, I do know a little bit about its operation in both Europe and the Middle East.

The Euro operation is bulking up on very well-equipped Hawker 800XPs and Falcon 2000s. I believe it still operates a few Citation-series aircraft in the region, but they will eventually be phased out (or so I have been told). At one point, pilots were based out of Lisbon - but I am not sure whether UK bases are offered.

As far as I know, the Middle East operation will use Hawker 800XPs, Falcon 2000s and Gulfstream IVSPs. My understanding is that the pilot base will be in Dammam (Dhahran), Saudi Arabia.

I have heard only good things about the operation in general. Again, you get to fly new, well-equipped jets to a wide variety of destinations throughout the world. Sounds good to me...

Hope this limited information helps - check past threads for more detailed information.

Cheers

[delphi]

Schedule: 6 days on, 5 off. Normal 17 workdays a month, max 19 (2 extra days means also extra pay). The first day you fly to the airport where "your" plane is, the last day of the tour you fly home.

Base : anywhere in Europe within 1 hour from a major airport (pilot picks his 'homebase").

Info about the airplanes is correct. Citation SII will be phased out. More new planes are coming.They have 4 SII, 3 Citation VII, 3 Falcon 2000, 10 Hawker 800 XP and 2 Falcon 900.

Salary depends on total time and jetexperience. Starts I think at about 3000 euro/month for an FO plus 60 euro per diem. About 500 euro (for FO) pensionfund. Medical insurance with a big US company is included.

In general, a fast growing very good company. Nice people (pilots from all european countries). Good to very good hotels during the tours. Good training with Flight Safety in the USA and a lot of interesting courses (CRM etc.).

[rimfire]

NetJest?

The EU Programme may be ok but the Muddle East Programme?

Make sure you get some straight answers from the interviewer! (ha ha)

*ç)(/&çç*+""!!!!

[delphi]

Rimfire,

What do you know about Netjets Europe or Middle East....?

[Fokjok]

see this
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum25/HTML/000216.html

[delphi]

I have read it.......but what does Rimfire know about Netjets Europe/Middle East......? Where is his opinion based on....?

[SSBJ]

NJME
Interesting comments Fokjok, I can see where they came from, but once your in the door things get better, The money isn't top dollar but still it's good, and the company is still in the eairly phase and in a similar state as Netjets Europe was at this time of there life.
But they still have a long way to go.
They have been doing a lot of interviewing for both the HS-125 and F2000, I beleave they are still looking for pilots on both aircraft that have time on type, but only for Falcon F/O's with no time on type.
The roster is 7 on 4 off and the money is from $45K up tax free with an appartment etc.
You need keep on them and be persistant they have a lot of people applying.
Jeddah is the base which I guess is the best of Saudi citys.
Keep at them they have some great people working for them and theres lots of potential.
Good luck!!

[FlyingCrew]

SSBJ,

received acknowledgement of my c.v.from the HR mgr at NJME six weeks ago till now nothing heard.

would appreciate if you could advise on the process detail of interview e.g. how long would you be called up before they receive your c.v., how long to start after interview if sucessful, training details as to which facility, employment package for F/O etc.

thanks for the help.

[Triple B]

It took me a couple months to get a reply from Netjets ME then suddenly an interview and now waiting for results.
Found HR very helpful although somewhat swamped with volume of applicants.
I found the interviewers friendly and informative.

[FlyingCrew]

Triple B,
Thanks for the info, care to share how they contact you for interview and the package is like? By e-mail, phone or you just received an invitation letter with an air ticket in your mail box?

Good luck to your result.

Cheers!

[frogyfly]

triple B
When did you do your interview?
I am also waiting for the happy news (I hope)

[Triple B]

Frogfly,

I did my interview in August and like you, I hope all goes well for us.
I contacted HR and it seems they've been ties up with delivery of the Falcon 2000.
Hope to see you in Jeddah.

[Joe Ninety]

Jimbo: see my post on Netjets Europe's package:
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum25/HTML/000165.html

hope it helps.

Joe

[rancid crab]

Jimmy the Pilot
NetJets are slow in getting in contact; -my experience is that they phone if they want you to come for an interview. They will send you a ticket to go to Flight Safety at Paris , Le Bourget, - (NetJets are owned by the same company that owns Flight Safety). The interview lasts the whole day with a psychometric test, technical questionaire, interview in front of a panel of three NetJets staff, (2 pilots & a representitive from Personnel) & finally a sim ride on a Citation. The whole show is well run & seems almost too good to be true, (so it would be nice to get some feedback from someone who is actually working for the company). They are very cagy about pay & you will have to push them to give you a straight answer; -to get an accurate picture you will need to give them a detailed rundown of your hours as pay is caculated pro-rata to *factored hours; -*1 hour of C152 is worth ,let's say, .2 of an hour wheras 1 hour on Falcon 2000 is calculated as 1 whole hour. The sim ride is normally just a SID, a transition & a STAR with an engine failure, but watch out because the citation is rigged to behave as though it has it's engines under the wings(?). You will get a response after two or three weeks, maybe longer; -if you are successful offering you a position, if you are lucky, on a specific fleet. Don't be surprised if ,when you were going for a Captains job, that they propose you a copilots salary; -that is what you will get until you are through your line training & given a command. Netjets are looking for a lot of pilots rifgt now, in fact their requirements have nearly doubled in the last week to approximately 100 pilots. They have had so much demand on the Falcon 2000 that they have had to bring an 2000 airframe over from the USA & have bought the 900's while waiting for the 2000's on order to be delivered.

------------------
festina lente

[delphi]

That remark about the "co-pilots" salary is not true. There are a lot people hired to be a captain and getting a probationary captains salary, which is slightly lower than a captains salary but much better than a copilots salary.
Netjets is not "fuzzy" about the salary, but they need a detailed breakdown of your hours to give you a quote (PIC, jet-time, multi etc.).
When you pass the selectionprocess, you'll get a job-offer including the salary they offer you. It's then up to you if you accept it or not.

[Loc-out]

Yes, just as thought. Everyone on a different deal. Great way to boost moral, that.

You would expect that from an operator in some Banana Republic in the third world.

[bizjet pilot]

I've been flying for NetJets since 94. first the Citation s-2, then Citation Ultra, then Hawker One Thou. now Falcon Two Thou. I'll tell you what you want to know about NetJets US, if you'll tell me stuff about NetJets Europe and NetJets Middle East.

Thanks
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by bizjet pilot (edited 07 November 2000).]

[delphi]

I worked in a banana republic, so I know what that's like. Netjets does not come even close to that.....
The good thing about their way of paying salary, is that you get paid for your experience, not just by seniority or the type you fly. In this way they can attract high timers. Because the pay per fleet is the same, you don't get the usual fights to get to the bigger aircraft etc.

[rancid crab]

Delphi
To be more precise about the difference in pay for Probationary Captains: -I was offered a Captains salary equivelent to £32.5K with a probationary salary of £18. Now that is not what I call "close"; whether you call it a Copilots' or a Probationary Captains' salary is immaterial, those are the facts. Now, have things changed recently?

[FlyingCrew]

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by FlyingCrew (edited 08 November 2000).]

[delphi]

That's not the case right now. A friend of mine got recently hired at NJE and is offered almost the normal captain's salary.....

Of course, if you don't like the deal, don't take it. I just wonder why you guys sound so frustrated......

[Sheep Guts]

Does anyone know ,or is there anywhere I can find out, the requirements for the Europe and Middle East outfits? That is, licence type,nationalty,visas, hours etc?

------------------
Props are for boats!Unless its a Kingair.

[Triple B]

Has anyone heard from Netjets ME lately after attending interviews?

[Flameout_No1]

With regard to Netjets Middle East operation, could someone tell me if an Australian licence is acceptable, or must you have an FAA or JAR.


------------------
Play it again Sam, I said play it !

[mutt]

National Air Service (Netjets ME)have just taken delivery of their first Falcon 2000.

[frogyfly]

Triple B,
I did mine in August and still waiting even after several phone calls and e-mail to the management.

[Paterbrat]

NAS in Jeddah has a couple of Gulfstreams IV's I think, two Hawker 800XP's and the first Falcon 2000 is just doing it's proving flights and is down Bangkok way, dunno what they're proving down there, but it's only just recently arrived. It's been a slow start and the head fred M Al Zeer has a debatable rep, rest of the flight crew seem pretty OK. Business seems a bit slow and not too many shares sold. Couple of the G V's that were slated to come over haven't shown up yet, but it is early days yet.

[mutt]

Do you think that the idea of fractional jet ownership can actually work in the Middle Eastern environment.?


Mutt

[Flintstone]

Wouldn't have thought so mutt.

Can you imagine the loss of face if it got out that you only owned a bit of the plane instead of all of it?

[Miles High]

Any of you know what requirements netjets euro/me want from f/o applicants?

Thanks

Miles High, a CAA fATPL holder with a pitiful 300hours, but 280,000 hours on the ground.
:)

[Flintstone]

I was told that the absolute minimum in terms of total hours is 1500. Lack of jet/turbine time need not be an obstacle though.

[G3]

I know it has already probably been posted somewhere, but could someone post the details for applying to Netjets ME.

Thanks,

G3

[delphi]

Netjets Europe....think minimum for FO: 1500 TT and 250 multi, European/JAA ATPL, European passport. So, no place for lowtimers.

[Miles High]

Thanks.
The search continues...

[Sick Bag]

Anyone thinking of going to Netjets should be aware that while the pilot/aircraft side of the company may be fine the administration is not.

Hardly a month goes by when some pilots do not receive their pay and/or expenses and per diems. These missing payments often take some time to sort out so you will need to have a contingency fund.

[mr blue sky]

Hi sick bag,
I'm just about to join NJME, are you comments about them or NJ europe, or both ? Do tell !

[This message has been edited by mr blue sky (edited 26 November 2000).]

[delphi]

Sickbags comments do NOT apply to Netjets Europe. And even if they did, when you start at Netjets Europe you'll get a 1000 Euro in advance for cases like this.......

[Sick Bag]

Sorry to burst your bubble there Delphi but I am talking about NJE. It is common knowledge within the company that this happens.

I know, I used to work there and have friends who still do.

[delphi]

Well....if haven't had that problem yet and I have not heard anybody complaining about it. You must have been unlucky......

[Pvt. Godfrey]

My sister Dolly tells me that several lovely young people have suffered the missing month's salary syndrome at NJ Europe this year.

While that does eventually always get sorted she is very worried at the number of people going for more than 6 months between completing that sim thingy and actually beginning all that real loop the loop stuff on a jet aeroplane.

[Lear35pilot]

Can anyone tell me where to send the papers for NJ Europe?

Thanx :)

[Flintstone]

Lear 35,

Check your e-mail

[SSBJ]

How many hours do you NJE pilot's do a month on average?
Ta

[mr blue sky]

I've asked this before, but is there anyone out there who actually has been interviewed, given a contract, been on a course, started employment, been paid, is living in Jeddah, or anything positive with Netjets Middle East/National Air Service ??? or indeed actually had any response from emails/faxes etc from Saudi Arabia ??? Go on, live dangerously, post !

[tribal offerings]

I worked there.

If you want a personal subjective opinion call me.

I don't recommend it.

Good luck.

[Sick Bag]

Tribal,

I'd like to speak to you but you have not posted your e-mail.

Please drop me a line and perhaps we can arrange something.

[spooky]

Anyone know why Netjets (Europe) have apparently postponed interviews originally scheduled for early January until March?
RIP

[outofdutyhours]

No but expect the Beauvais 8C dep. from Paris on the sim ride which is on a clockwork CE500 sim. (BVS8C)

Hope this helps

[spooky]

Well thanks, I've decided not to expect anything as I once turned up for an interview expecting an informal chat and got a full afternoon doing sums and seeing if I could spell followed by a full grilling in front of panel of three! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif I imagine Netjets to be a bit like that. Flying a clockwork machine will be tricky as I've been in a glass cockpit for some time and we hardly ever hand fly it. This could be another topic - do people feel that the use of modern flight management flight guidance systems erode basic flying skill? What do you do to keep in touch? :)

[Avenger]

Hi Spooky,

Don't know anything about postponed interviews as I'm not looking! But I agree that the use of all glass, FD and A/P can erode the basic elements, mainly in terms of scan speed.
We are encouraged to hand fly whenever possible just to keep up to speed. I believe we do get complacent and can lose an element of spacial awareness.
Merry Xmas to all....

[lucille]

Whats stopping anyone from disconnecting the A/P and doing a properly briefed, raw data ILS for practice whenever its a low workload day with good weather.?

[V2Climb]

Quite right - we do the occasional approach the old fashioned way. Interestingly, nowadays LPC's and OPC's are flown using all the automatics except the engine out ILS and go - round, as you all no doubt know, so the modern emphasis is on using the f/d and autopilot not on basic skills.

[Flintstone]

Spooky,

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the interview if I were you. Mine was very relaxed and came complete with tea and biccies (well, almost). Yes, there were sums an' spelin tests but they were quite benign too.

[birddog]

Interviews have been delayed due to the back log in training. They have a large number of new hires sitting at home who have yet to do their line training. This is due to the lack of training Captains. Until they are finished a hold has been placed on interviews. The backlog is anticipated to be cleared by March/April. They are makng an effort to train more training Captains as well, so this should also help the situation. All this can change however.

[mach2moose]

Has anyone who responded to Netjets advertisement recently actually had a response ?

Many thanks.

[Gulfpilot4]

No

[Loc-out]

That's about parr for the course for that company.Don't hold your breath.

[mach2moose]

Thanks for the info!

I called Anabela Rola, their recruitment lady
in Portugal, to see how things were progressing. She said they were short listing
the First Officers, but had not started on the Captains yet.Mind you, that was before
Sept 11th.

Good luck to your application.

[noax2grind]

:rolleyes:
Sent an email to the lady and reply was that I was on the `yes` list for interviews (capts)and would be contacted when it had been arranged?!
Still dont know anything about the pay. Its the 6 on / 5off that appeals!
Watch this space....

[mach2moose]

Noax2grind,

Thanks for that...sounds promising for you, well done! I might send an e-mail on Monday, myself.

Good luck with the interview.

[Gentleman Aviator]

T2,

Any chance of posting Anabel's telephone number - I would love to know if I am on the short list!

Many thanks, GA

[Gentleman Aviator]

T2,

Any chance of posting Anabel's telephone number? I would love to find out if I have made it onto the shortlist!

Many thanks,

GA

[mach2moose]

GA

I'm struggling to find the number, but will e-mail you when I find it. I e-mailed anabela this morning, but have not had a reply yet.
Good luck!

T2

[activewaypoint]

Netjets main number is +351 21 446 8400. Hope you get through to someone. ;)

[NdekePilot]

Waited over 6 months to hear back from them...finally called Anabela to be told not hearing from them was a good thing as it meant you were on the list to be interviewed.Asked how long it was good NOT to hear from them and was told to resubmit application just in case...yeah, yeah.
Had an interview with FlexJet in Copenhagen who although a lot smaller, were the epitome of friendly efficiency. Bombardier owned with Lear31A, Challenger604 etc. Would have loved to work for them but was starving and offered job first by someone else...C'est la vie. NetJets may be big, but they could learn a thing or two about common courtesy it would appear. :)

[mach2moose]

Ndeke,

Interesting comments, although worrying. Hopefully, things are better on the inside !
Thank you anyway.

T2

[gulf-crew]

I applied for cabin crew position just been told chief flt left and went back to states and applications sitting on desk not been looked at, spoke to friend who works for them and they are all working hard due no staff. So whats happening over their why advertise and then not get back to people its so disgusting the way companies treat people applied for over 50 jobs in the last 6 months that were advertised and only 5 sent back letters. What to do.????

[Flintstone]

gulf crew,

I know how frustrating it must be but if you are really interested the only thing I can suggest is that you keep pestering.

The rate at which the company is expanding means that sometimes the admin side has not kept up (believe me, I know :rolleyes: )

[allthenines]

Where was this advertisement that you speak of? I'm probably going to be made redundant shortly and I'm looking for a job!

[mach2moose]

Allthenines,

The ad appeared in Flight International, dated 4-10th Sept. They are looking for Capts., F/Officers, and Cabin Crew.

If you can't find it, then I,ll pass on more details.

Hope you are not made redundant!

T2

[allthenines]

T2sugarsplease,

Can't access the Flight back issues website. Would appreciate the details.

Thanks
9's

[mach2moose]

Here we go.....(slightly abbreviated !)

Netjets Europe accepting resumes for its European Fractional Ownership Program.
Must have valid EEC passport and EU/JAA ATPL. Preference given to those with Airline and Corporate experience.

Capt: ATPL, 3000 TT, 500 ME JET, 500 PIC JAR25 Aircraft.

F/O : ATPL or frozen, 1500 TT, 500ME ,MCC certificate ( what's that ?!)

They offer 6 on, 5 off.You can be based anywhere near a major airport. Duty travel from base and return paid, and inside duty days.Crew savings plan.Medical insurance for family.Life and disability insurance.Per diem plus crew meals (whoopee!).

Mail, e-mail or fax CV and copy of ATPL, and last medical to:-

Netjets Europe Ltd.,
Human Resources Dept,
Av. das Descobertas,
Galerias Alto da Berra Piso 4,
2780-053 Oeiras,Portugal

Fax: +351 21 446 8455

E-mail: [email protected]


T2
Phew.......well, you did ask !......

[gulf-crew]

Flintstone

Just heard from ms Rola, not much was said just that they are recruiting until the end of next year and will hear from them basically when they feel like it. Cant believe a company size and high profile like Netjets would do something like that. But will keep trying as would like the job think its off to charter for the time being still looking very hard for vvip f/a's job but its a hard slog happy hunting hope u guys have better luck should have been a pilot instead of looking after self loading freight. :eek:

[putco]

Hi Lads, I was invited to a NetJets interview in Paris. The ticket from South Africa was booked, the hotel and all - two weeks before the occasion I get an email to say all interviews are cancelled and have never heard anything more.

Nice one guys! :mad:

[mach2moose]

putco,

When was that, exactly ?

Thanks,

T2

[4granted]

Putco
DAMM!!! we could have had a brewsky together...Sorry man, looks like Ill see you there sooner than here....its not looking good here either (Swisslundaus) and am seriously looking to come back asap...Wait !!!! Ill email you
Cheers
hb4g :p

[putco]

T - the axact date of the email sent to me was 21 April 2001, confirming my interview and tickets and hotel.

I then received another a while later saying all had been cancelled, no explanation was given.

Cheers

4Granted, check your email Bwana, MaxTorque, you too! beers are iced and ready!

[activewaypoint]

Same happened to me back in January. I replied again to their recent ad and nothing so far! Fortunately I have a decent job but I wouldn't mind 6 on 5 off. I'd have to take a bit of a pay cut though, but for what looks like a part time job, I'd do it I think......... :cool:

[noax2grind]

Activewaypoint do you know the pay scale for Capts in Netjets?
Cheers

[activewaypoint]

well, I know they have a varying scale depending on experience. They have some sort of weird table which brings in variables such as jet time, turboprop time etc. I expect Flintstone could enlighten us perhaps.
Whereas one could expect mid to late 40's in a small corporate outfit, Netjets seems to be in the late 30's, but they get per-diems on top. Its a complex equation which has to include lifestyle etc. I think its a reasonable package these days if one ever got a reply..............

[Flintstone]

Pay has just been revised with a view to creating a bit more parity. The situation had developed where certain people of similar experience had different salaries.

Starting pay would depend on experience of course. I know what I get but wouldn't dream of asking anyone else so I can't help you there I'm afraid.

Like activewaypoint says, the days off have a lot going for them.

[mali]

Sorry to but in bit has anyone got some contact details for one of your Hawker guys: Nick Nightingale, I've lost track of his details and thought someone could help me.
cheers mali. :confused:

[pilot dude]

I spoke to Anabella Rola today and she told me that they needed 100 pilots in the next 18 mo's but they received 1644 quallyfying CV's, So don't get your hope up.

PD

[mach2moose]

I wish I hadn't started this thread!

I was quite optimistic beforehand!

Good luck to you all.

T2

[activewaypoint]

Well, now all the recent bout of bitching seems to have stopped...has anyone been hired from the interviews at the end of last month?:cool:

[Gentleman Aviator]

Not sure, but I received a charming telephone call in the last few days inviting me to interview in Paris in early August.

Any clues as to what I should expect at interview/sim would be greatly appreciated.

Silly question time : is it possible to have a gateway airport of London in Summer and Geneva in Winter ?(need to spend as much time as possible in the Alps!)

Regards to all,

GA

[chinny]

Why ......you don't want much do you!!!!:eek:
In this environment you want to count your blessings that you've got a job,if in fact you get the offer!!!:cool:

[Gentleman Aviator]

What an unusual response Chinny.

I was simply hoping for a little information about the current recruitment profile.

The 'aside' was simply that - nothing to get excited about?! (Unless of course you are a fanatical non-skier!)

I do count my blessings that I have a job, however, it never hurts to apply to fly within a different environment and it rarely hurts to ask questions from colleagues.

Regards,

GA

[Gentleman Aviator]

Another reason for dual basing is the tax position associated with being out of the UK for 275 days per year (no income tax ;) )

Free skiing (or boarding) and no income tax - what a terrible way to live. Throw in some top of the range biz jet and you will have a very happy GA!

Sorry to slash & burn - keep in the general direction of the topic - well, within 180 degrees of it would help.4HP

[Jet Net]

I've got the call with an offer anyone else??

[Gentleman Aviator]

Jet Net,

Be most grateful if you could drop me an e-mail with regards to my forthcoming interview.


Gentleman Aviator

[Bigmosquito]

First, you'll have a psychological test. Nothing unusual, same as airlines.
You can get books related to this subject at different book stores.

Second, you'll be invited to chat with three persons from the cie.

One will be talking about safety, Jepps, aerodynamics (simple things), and put you in a situation with a go minded captain to land below minimum.

Another one will be talking about things such as catering. Of course with some problems such as: "This is not what I've ordered! I want what I've asked and I want to leave on time...".
Deal with it...
Another scenario could be oversize luggages that can not be put on board. Think about next day delivery with DHL, FEDEX, or others... Good old cargo goes almost anywhere now a day...

Remind to yourself that they don't want to hear false informations. Be honest and tell them the truth...
Stay a public relation type of guy...

Another one will ask about your previous employer and the three things you would consider negative about yourself.

Third, the sim check.
You'll fly the Falcon 10 from A to B without A/P and flight director.
You'll have an SID departure with a break in between to do some 45° bank turns then proceed to your destination.
You'll have to shut down one engine for what ever reasons, shoot 1 ILS approach with a go around single engine, then come back with a full stop.
For those already qualified on the Falcon 10, you might get an engine failure on take-off, so expect scenarios to change depending on your background.
For those who haven't touch a stick for years and have used auto throttle, would be good idea to practice again basic scanning...
No fancy EFIS or glass cockpit. This is back to good old instruments.

Just stay cool, polite, honest and you'll have a pretty good chance to get in.

I've seen a lot of negative things in this forum. I won't come back on what has been said. Just remember that Netjets Europe is still a young cie and it takes years before things get stable.
Big airlines didn't make it in one day.
Management will do mistakes so will we before finding the right path.
Don't forget they started with 2 or 3 SII's.
What a change since then... and still growing...

Good luck to all of you...

[Fakawi]

Net Jet

What airplane were you hired onto ?
Just keep in mind : our payscale has recently been changed and some of us had to take up to 30 % paycuts.
The rationale for that as given by management was that now everything would be based upon seniority. Pay as well as progression.
I congratulate you for having been chosen but be aware of the fact that you have stepped upon people more senior than you should you be a direct entry to the F 50.

[Gentleman Aviator]

Big Mosquito,

You are a gentleman indeed.

If I do get in, I owe you a beer - a Belgian one, of course!

GA

[Jet Net]

G A

The Big Mozzi has got it about right - sounds a bit like the interview I suffered. I can add very little.


Fakawi

I don't know the fleet I've got. I will read the offer letter very carefully before I sign anything. How do you like working for them? Anything I should lookout for? How does the 6 on 5 off thing work?

Anyone else got the phone call or is it just me?

[Fakawi]

Net jets

read these
as true today as they were then:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=52650&highlight=netjets


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=56443&highlight=netjets



about the 6 and 5

"Management will try to.........however it is understood that........bla bla bla..........."

[PENNINE BOY]

Anybody got the format for the day of interviews?

Any help would be appreciated

Cheers!

[CRJdude]

PB

Check your PM

Regards~

[pilot dude]

How long have you've been wayting for an interview

p.d.

p.s. And tell us what happened

[JoeCo]

If you are interviewing for a NetJets USA job then you should check out www.aviationinterviews.com There is tons of information however it is only relavent to the USA division.

As for the NJME interview, been there, done that, got the PFO letter. What do you specifically what know?

As for the NJE interview, sorry mate, can't help yu there.

[TheDrop]

I have heard from rumours interviews are 15th to 17th of february at Gatwick.

I didn't see an advert anywhere, but I have emailed my application to [email protected] with no answer. I have 2350 hours, 450 jet, and ATPL.

Was there a postal address the application should have gone to?

Thank you all.

[Flintstone]

The e-mail application should do it. No point in sending a paper copy.

[TheDrop]

So, what happended, I haven't heard a word, not even a confirmation receipt of the email.

I will send them another one, it might have been lost somewhere!

[activewaypoint]

Nasty american culture in NJE. The damage they're doing to the charter business in europe is huge. Employees treated badly etc.
Its all been posted before, I've heard its not getting better. Better off out of it, don't join.:ugh:

[PENNINE BOY]

Thanks for the replies Guys,

Did the days interview, it was the most laid back interview I have had since leaving school. Mostly role playing situations like what if you had just taken off and the paxs were complaining of banging noises from the back, what would you do? Back on the ground it turns out that the F/O has left the keys in the baggage hold.etc. etc.

Apparently it had happened!!! The guy giving all the verbal was called edited out by admin.

This was followed by a sim ride. Quite a poorly organised day considering it is a USA Company.

Any way got the standard P.F.O. email that was not even addressed personally to me. I thought I had won a time share appartment/condo in Portugal when I recieved it but on further evidence it was from the Human Remains Dept.

No use in crying over spilt milk onwards and upwards hopefully

Do not name names, people... simply not on. And the use of a few "in my opinions" is helpful too, when it comes to criticism of a process from such close quarters to the event. Sick Squid.

:cool:

[silverhawk]

Pennine Boy

it might not feel like it just now, but you are better off out of there. Good luck in the future elsewhere

[chuckyaeger]

I agree with Activewaypoint. Working for NJE is a waste of time. They dont have a clue what they are doing. No seniority, poor pay, As a matter of fact NO NOTHING. Treated badly.
Overworked underpaid. Hire fire policy.

The rumour has it. As soon as the market picks up. Pilots will be leaving for other companies. So dont bother wasting your time and careers, and dont believe a word they tell you.

Good luck.

Private Detective.
:eek:

[4HolerPoler]

I would kindly remind folk to read the red warning at the bottom of the page before fully digesting the contents of postings, specifically those containing vitriol & intended to cause concern. Then, if you´re still not sure, check the profile of specific posters and, if you´ve got the time, check the typical content of their previous posts to verify their character and apparent ability to be able to make fair comment on a topic.

4HP

[pilot dude]

Is there anybody that actually works for Netjets that can say anything usefull

Cause i'me under the oppinion that only Netjets rejects are the ones that have something (negative) to say.

pd

[Capt Crash]

I work for NetJets as a Co-pilot on the Bravo.

It is a well run company, ops (generally) get it right and the do work us hard when on tour. When off, mostly for 5 days (sometimes 4 days and sometimes 7 days off) we are left alone.

Management are very hard working and value the pilots, despite being hundreds of miles from Lisbon I feel part of the NetJets Team.

The company will back the pilots up to the hilt if you are honest but if you are dishonest or have the wrong attitude you will go. No hire fire policy that I've seen.

Early command for the right people, and fleet changes for others if they have insufficient total time.

There are a mix of people in the company, some with 1500 hrs and come from GA or others with national carrier airline backgrounds.

I do not know of anyone who is planning to leave, people do go, mainly because of the 6 day tours away from home.

The pay is ok, not great, £25 000 basic plus per diems but I am getting some quality jet time and I have a GREAT TIME when on tour.

I'm really sorry if you haven't been selected to join the company, but don't slag us off. Re-apply and keep intouch with HR. Those who are thinking about applying, it's worth a look and it may suit you.

[activewaypoint]

PD.....Flintstone who is apparently still a Netjets employee wasn't all that positive about the company awhile ago!!!!:cool:

[pilot dude]

Ok so what was flintstones problem?

PD

[chinny]

:confused: Can some-one tell me what all the rhetoric is about?
I have just been turned down after interview but I fail to see what all the s*#t is about-surely it would be better to have a job than than not ,esp in this environment.I have a couple of mates there who are having a great time!!!
Something is better than nothing-it is for me!

[Wrong Sisters]

AciveWP

"Nasty american culture in NJE." American culture - mostly yes Nasty - no

"The damage they're doing to the charter business in europe is huge." Sounds to me like we're doing a great job then! Sour Grapes?

"Employees treated badly etc" I agree with MJ and Captain Crash. No company is perfect but there are a lot of people working hard to improve this one and if charter businesses go broke tough - its called competition.

For those that complain on this forum about the company what have YOU done to try to improve it? I'm not naive enough to realise that there aren't problems but you show me a company that is growing this fast that doesn't?

To me the answer is really simple if you don't like the company - resign and if you haven't got the balls then shut up or at least make your posts balanced.

For those reading this still looking for work please don't be put off because the one word that can NEVER be used for our flying is "boring"

[doubleu-anker]

I don't know what their staff relations are like but I have known people, experienced and type rated, who have applied till they are blue in the face.

So what, I hear you say?

Problem is they don't appear to be able to muster up enough common courtesy to even reply to these people. Surely, this must give an insight into their general attitude towards employees, prospective or other wise. I have certainly been "put off."

At the very minimum, Flexjet jet Europe would do their best and reply to an application. A dam shame they pulled out of Europe as they would have given NJ a run for their money.

[respect_?]

People tend to forget


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showth...ghlight=netjets


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showth...ghlight=netjets



Everything mentioned in these threads is as true today as it was then.
Capt crash: who are you ? Do you have eyes ? And if so open them and do not try to cloud the vision of other people.

Mike jenvey: You have been hired so recently that you can hardly speak for us at Netjets. Wait till the high season brings the first bullyings your way !

Wrong Sisters: No company is perfect but there are a lot of people working hard to improve this one

Name one ! You are surely not talking about those people who will get teir huge bonusses at the end of the year are you ?

No hire and fire ? What a laugh !
No chance to experience the ejection seat in civilian flying ? Try Netjets.

For those of you that are upset for not even having recieved a polite denial of your application: the comtempt of NJ towards their pilots is just as bad.

[activewaypoint]

Quite a thread this one!! Started as a request for info on the Netjets interview and its back to the pros and cons of NJE!! Its certainly stirring up a lot of feeling and I suppose might be important.
WS : I realise that the concept of american and culture are mutually exclusive so perhaps I shouldn't have written that. But nasty it certainly is!
I don't accept that NJE is fair competition. They cannot make a profit operating the way they do - how much is Warren Buffet losing a month? When he pulls the plug, I wonder how the local markets will take up the flotsam.
I'll bet the flying isn't boring - being bounced off the runway at Aberdeen has to be fun!
What you've got is an american billionaire pumping cash into a loss making enterprise, operating under a flag of convenience, buying aircraft at discount prices. I guess thats where any potential profit will come from - when it folds and the aircraft are sold.:yuk:

[doubleu-anker]

Well Mike, if you were contacted one day after submitting you resume, you are obviously are of "the right stuff". Well done.

What are they looking for then? Airforce, Airline or NASA backgrounds? Would help if we knew, then we wouldn't waste our and Netjets time, submitting a resume in a futile application to an outfit that is beyond the reach of us mortals.

I don't recall NJE giving me the impression they would not reply to to an application to unsucessful candiates, in their latest advertizement for pilots.

[Flintstone]

activewaypiont may have been right (dunno when we spoke,but take it all in perspective, please).

Are Netets perfect? No.

Is anyone else....? I'll leave you to answer that.

For the greater part 6 on/ 5 off is the norm.

Am I happy? For the greater part, yes.

I'd rather be doing this than shuttliing back and forth between the same two airports.

Are they going places? I bloody hope so or I've hitched up to the wrong wagon. Soon find out though, eh?

Am I blind to the real world? Well, I suppose you have to decide upon who's outside looking in. I'm (fortunately) for now looking out but that can change.

All I can say is that if Uncle Warren is prepared to keep pumping the money in I'm more than glad to keep flying his brand new
aircraft.

The really annoying thing is how they deal with applications (as in, ignore them). We, already working here, know this but resources are limited. I'll tell those in the know but don't hold your breath.

Joking aside, it ain't such a bad place to be. Sure, **** happens and we all cop some from time to time but the gamble might be worth it. If it turns out not to be I'm sure someone will let me know.

activewaypoint I think we're long past due a beer mate. S

[GashShag]

For all of you wondering what you need to join net jets-
On my initial course, all of us had 2500-3500 hours ie. we all had the amount of hours for an upgrade to captaincy.

For those asking why you didn't get any reply, I was told there were 2000+ CVs for one advert- and for only two people initially sorting out these CVs, it would take alot of time to reply to them all.

[B767-300]

Hi GashShag, did you say 2500-3500 hrs.?. Just got my PFO letter with 5000hrs. airline jet time, they said I was not "competitive" enough for the European market, what ever that means . All these after a personal talk (yes, I went over to Oeiras exclusively to talk to him) with Mr. Carlos Costa (do you recall this name or do I have to explain?) in which he promised that "of course" I would be interviewed ... LAST SEPTEMBER!!.
So have fun in your NJE but as far as I am cocerned ...
:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:
Fly Safe

[pilot dude]

That means that with 5000 hrs airline time you are just To damn expensive

PD

[BitterFlex]

Mr. B 767-300

Why don't you tell us about a day in your life, when you are out working. Then we'll have one of us bizjet pilots tell you about our work day. Then you'll proberbly find out why NetJets diden't call you for an interview. ( I know the shoulden't have lied to you)

I myself got an interview two weeks after I applied (wich saddly I screwd up). But thats life, hopefully I'll do a better job next time. Buy the way I'm not eaven close to 5000h, not eaven one hour of widebody time.

BF

[B767-300]

Mr. BitterFlex,
the whole point of my letter was: "hey, play fair". If they don't want experienced pilots at NJE just put a minimum of flight hours in your advertisement and A MAXIMUM. Of course writting up a maximum doesn't sell too well in terms of safety, does it?. Also if they don't want airline pilots, just let it know. I just want to know if I can have an access to that job, and if I can't ... I just don't send my CV and everybody is happy.
Secondly, don't make the mistake of thinking that working for an airline is the same thing as working for a major. Not everywhere pilots get excellent pays, pension plans, free travel tickets ... . I assesed my self and believe me, if I wanted to switch to NJE is because it was worth it.
You screwed at the interview?, you've never flown a wide body? hard luck pal, what can I do about that?
Fly Safe

[jag70]

dear B767-300,

all your statements are guesses. I don't know NJE recruitment policy exactly but I know they want a good mix of different kinds of aviation and different levels of experience. I got in with 5000+ hours being an airline captain as well. When I applied I got a phonecall from them within a couple of days. So far, I don't regret my choice.

[BitterFlex]

Hey B767-300
All I'm trying to say here is, what you'r proberbly used to, is total diffrent than NJE opperations, not talking about the aircraft. I belive if you get a direct entry captains seat you'll get to fly the old mighty Citation Bravo, wich proberbly gross out at the weight you plan for a go-around (slight exageration). I totaly agree with you that lying to your face and promesing a interview is ..... (well we no what).
I belive they woulden't mind one of these 5 to 10 tusend hour guys working for Easy or Ryan or what ever they are called. Since the type of operation is fairly simular. Quick turnarounds one to three hour flights, alot of workdays and so forth.
Be good

[GashShag]

Just to clarify- There's lots of different experienced pilots within NetJets. I was only talking about my course. NetJets have recruited alot of pilots with "Mr 767's" experience and also pilots with 1500 hrs (as per the advert).

[TheDrop]

Latest advertisement in FI, april 1st, did anyone here get called in?

[bigbusdriver06]

Does Netjets have a policy against recruiting older pilots? I speak to friends with (what they imagine to be) exactly the right bizjet/customer service/airline experience, and they never hear anything in reply to their CV. Perhaps they should try again, and "accidentally" enter a younger age?

[doubleu-anker]

Well i am a little older than 45.

I have applied everytime the ad goes in.

You know something? I managed to extract a reply, this time around. Only the once, but it was a reply.

Cant ask for any more than that, can we?

No, my services were not required.

[cambioso]

Of the seven candidates that attended the Tuesday morning interviews at Gatwick, three were OVER 50 !!!
I guess they wouldn't bother to interview them if they weren't prepared to employ "over 45s" would they ???

P.S. I am not a Netjets employee !!

[bigbusdriver06]

Okay, I'm convinced, Netjets are not ageist! ~ thanks for your input.

[FlyGB]

Does anyone have the address of Net Jets UK? I've found their address in the USA and addresses in Portugal and Switzerland, but nothing for the UK.

[Flintstone]

NetJets Europe, Ltd.
2nd Floor
60 Sloane Avenue
Chelsea
London SW3 3DD
44 (0)207 590 5110
44 (0)207 590 5111 FAX


I found it on the website under 'Contact Us' :E

[Flintstone]

Specific question.

Specific answer.

[silverhawk]

According to a Netjets executive at a recent tribunal, Netjets has no assets nor any presence in the UK. This meant the UK tribunal had no jurisdiction over NJE and therefore were unable to make an award to the ex employee, despite the fact that the tribunal found in favour of the ex employee!

Perhaps the tribunal can be reconvened if NJE do have a presence in the UK.

Would the NJE executive in question be quilty of contempt if he knowingly LIED to the tribunal?

BEWARE OF NJE

[AIRWAY]

Net Jets - Europe is based in Portugal and owned 49% by Portuguese Airline, Air Luxor.

[silverhawk]

AIRWAY

if what you say is true then you are confirming that one of your bosses in Lisbon did knowingly attempt to mislead the industrial tribunal.

That would be an offence and make him liable to prosecution.

NJE claim to have zero presence in Europe when it comes to legal matters. Bear that in mind if you ever are in conflict with them!

[livinginspain]

Its does seem astonishing that with Portuguese registration, a Portuguese ops set up, employing several hundred Europeans, that any Company can claim to have a zero presence in Europe .

Maybe bluesafrica with all that understanding and wisdom could enlighten us ? or anyone else for that matter.........

[livinginspain]

Another every so slightly telling statement about a presence in Europe may just be -

a quotation from this very thread ..

"The company is based in Portugal. If you are looking for a pilot job, try:

[email protected]

Pilot Recruitment
Netjets
Avenida Das Descobertas
Galerias Alto Da Barra Piso 4
2780 053
Oeiras
PORTUGAL

Fax: +351 21 446 8455 "

from non other than that master of getting personal, mike jenvey

Thanks for that info Mike, great stuff.

[FLAMBEBOBO]

Jeez, for the sake of safety I thought everybody in this industry got on together. A bit of a worry if your a customer, or a passenger.

[bluesafrica]

Dear Activewaypoint,

You should know that Portuguese flag is not a flag of convinience. I happen to know something from Portuguese Authorities and they are as competent as anyone else in EU. Please, rest assured that all NJE airplanes are properly insured and they are denitively in better position to stand behind their product than any other European Air Taxi operator today.

The fact still remains that without NJE, Europe was having several 1-2 old airplane operators using mainly free lance pilots.
I am afraid that the fact is that it is commercially not possible or feasable to operate with modern airplanes in Europe. Period.
NJE economics must be based also for the fact that they do need operation in Europe to support existing customers from US as well as some European customers that do not like to fly with those " Fred´s Friendly Air Service" airplanes because they can have a brand new jet and properly trained crew for the same money.
Well , that´s it and it wouldn´t help if pilot´s keep crying good old times back... That´s why I like to retire too!
Blues:ok:

[livinginspain]

Here's one definition -

"Definition of a Flag of Convenience (FOC)
235. The ITF defines Flags of Convenience as:

"Where the beneficial ownership and control of a vessel is found to lie elsewhere than in the country of the flag the vessel is flying, the vessel is considered as sailing under a flag of convenience. In cases, however, where the identification of the beneficial owner is not clear, any vessel where there is no genuine link between the flag state and the person(s), or corporate entity, with effective control over the operation of the vessel shall be considered as sailing under an FOC".

236. Any register can be declared an FOC on the basis that the majority of the vessels on the register are not beneficially owned and controlled within the flag state.

237. For the purposes of ITF policy, effective control is taken to mean the control exercised by the entity (ie a person(s) or corporation) being held responsible by the flag state for the actions of the vessel and fulfilling its obligations to abide by the law of the flag state. In so defining "effective control" and where the beneficial ownership is unclear, the ITF shall take account of the operator, the charterers and the ship managers in that order. "


Obviously it is defined here for merchant shipping, but, personally, I feel that one can draw parallels.

Its interesting that the phrase ' beneficial interest ' appears.

"ITF" = International Transport Workers Federation.

[Oluf]

According to JAA regs. the aircraft operating under an AOC must be of the same national register as the issuing authority of the AOC. Netjets Chose Portugal, Flexjet, when they operated, chose Denmark.
If I were to start a business, I would also choose the best place for my investment to grow, which is what I'm sure Netjets did. They needed a EU member country as base.
The EU is after all a common market.
The discussion wether Portugal is this or that doesen't really matter in the end, as all these countries will have to comply with JAA regs. in the end.
When it comes to wether the company has a precence in the UK or not I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. The employment contract will usually specify which court is the authority in disputes, and one would think this would be in Portugal. If anything, Portugal being a EU member, the dispute can be brought to Brussels.
As I have said before. Read the contract before you sign it, then live with it for better or for worse, or simply get out.

O
;)

[macfloppy]

Can anyone out there answer a couple of queries for a pal . Rumoursville has it that Net Jets takes direct entry commanders , pays them circa 70k , guarantees them 6 days working and 5 days off , and positions them to and from Portugal and home . Is this true or fantasy ?

[jammers]

Macfloppy........the most recent upgrade to command was on the Falcon core fleet........the certain individual from start of indoc to command upgrade took 2.5 months........and IMHO that was even too long for this particular individual, fantastic fellow and very experienced.....70k a year depends on which aircraft type you are assigned as commander and if you're into opening champers and brown nosing your pax the job will suit you well........keep in mind though safety is your foremost responsibility as one NJE crew who where intercepted can attest to.......6 on 5 off is ideally the way things should proceed but in the biz world Nothing is written in stone.............the contract should you sign it, is unenforceable and since you are paid in the IOM litigation due violations of the contract are hard to persue should you have a need to do so..............basically they don't need a reason to fire you and being none unionized you haven't a flamingo leg to stand on.........right or wrong, these are the facts and some pilots are quite happy with these conditions because they have no choice, .....they are quite happt to sign most any contract as thay have little or no glass time or knowledge of airline ops......they are quite flexible individuals though driven by the need for :suspect:........positioning to and from home base is the norm but anything can change;)

[tophe]

Jammers, would it be possible to know what type of falcon are you refering?
If it's the 2000, then you are completly wrong. The latest having done the upgrade flew for 9 months before being upgaded. And no, it was not too long. And they did not requested anything special as you suggest.
You should know as well that most of the pilots join on the other fleets and usually uprade on the aircraft they fly (which make sens economicly).
Something else, some "experienced" pilots join NJE because that's almost the only way to live in there own country close to they family, not because they are too bad to join another "airline". That's just a choice of live. 6/5 sonds much better to me than being away for 20-25 days a month like some om my friends living aboard.....


Happy ldgs to everybody.

[jammers]

Dear Tophe,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Macfloppy........the most recent upgrade to command was on the Falcon core fleet........the certain individual from start of indoc to command upgrade took 2.5 months
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you may have not noticed from my previous post I make specific mention to core fleet. Core fleet (as you know or probably don't know) is the Falcon 50/900.......one thing you're right about is that SOME pilots do choose to fly for NJE experienced or not, what I am saying is that for the furloughed pilots flying for NJE they most certainly return to their former airline once recalled e.g. SAS ........
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Something else, some "experienced" pilots join NJE because that's almost the only way to live in there own country close to they family, not because they are too bad to join another "airline".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said these pilot's are "too bad", just simply that they do not possess the neccessary 'Glass' cockpit time or type ratings to join the airlines :ok:

The one thing you are right about is that at the end of the day it's all about QUALITY OF LIFE.

[Kelly Hopper]

OK. Is this what you want to hear?

Netjets have established with INAC that their pilots have no fixed base. Their base is wherever the aircraft happens to be at any particular time. No amount of positioning counts towards duty time despite the Portuguese equivelent of the ANO insisting that time out counts as 100% and time back at 50%. All one can assume is that the Netjets cheque book has been used unscrupulously.

All you wannabees out there. There is no such company as Netjets Europe. Pilots are employed at the convenience of Lisbon through various worthless holding companies located around the world.
Put simply, what redress do you have when your salary is reduced by 30% or you get fined for upholding standards or fired with no explanation. Many ex's are trying to establish jurrisdiction somewhere. Time will tell.

Does this sound like a dream job? Current "happy" pilots just haven't been shat on. (yet).

[livinginspain]

or demoted for an arbitrary period


anyone know of any more ?

[AIRWAY]

This is Interesting, how everyone knows everything about NetJets, and still everyone's opinion is different :rolleyes: So who shall we believe :confused:

[silverhawk]

Kelly Hopper has got it about right.

Netjets Europe does not exist. Netjets Ltd is a front for the setup.

Pilots are employed through Cayman Islands or Isle of Man, both of which are just holding companies.

Before you join Netjets it's worth a call to BALPA. Just ask them how many times they have been asked to intervene in the Netjets circus. Unsuccessfully, due to the arrangements of the company.

Not sure where or how the Lisbon groundstaff are employed. I'm sure Mike Jenvey THINKS he knows the answer

[oldhasbeen]

question for our friends in Netjet US. Do they accept applications from non US citizens and do they also reject 10,000+ pilots as some say they do in Europe.Any info appreciated,especially from Aus pilots working there.

[ComJam]

OK, so many conflicting views!

Simple question: Netjets job? Yes or No?

Cheers

[Bames]

I know pilots who have previously worked there, but have managed to escape, like one recently said. I also know pilots who still work there, and they both agree that the only reason they still are with NJE is that they haven't found anything else.
So, if you have nothing else, go for it, otherwise I wouldn't...

[PPRuNe Towers]

I meet Net Jet crews from the left side of the pond on just about a weekly basis. The two major threads running here are baffling to them. Other than the griping legally required to maintain a current licence they like the place, the equipment and most of the work practices.

The problem facing all the NJE cheerleaders here is their resolute refusal page after page after page to answer any question in a straight forward manner. This is actually a polite way of saying ducking, diving and consistently, pointedly and egregiously obscuring the truth.

Earlier this week I spoke face to face with a PPRuNer and asked for the most concise and brutal analysis of the issues being purposely obscured - the ones most important to those considering employment. The reason? PPRuNe is for the benefit of pilots and not companies.

The post by Kelly Hopper was the response I received. Note that the regular suspects have not refered to it, refuted a single word or rebutted any point whether historically or in terms of current arrangements. Digs and sneering are a semantic null - devoid of meaning and discounted totally here at the Towers.

The Air Luxor AOC and standard FTL's are a fact.

Generic Portugese FTL's are a fact.

The utterly err, unique NJE ummm, arrangement is a fact and a particularly interesting one in the light of the Crossair Jumbolina report. Something that would prove very interesting tested in employment, civil or criminal law. Something the legal section of the Portugese authorities should be looking at pretty sharpish to cover their own arses.

Let's sum it up. NJE got out of the FTL's required by all other AOC operators in extremely mysterious circumstances. Working for NJE is actually a contract job with no employment law comeback.

Any sane, experienced aviator would be a fool to take the blandishments offered by supposed Net Jet employees as anything other than rose tinted honeymoon whisperings or the ravings of the terminally ambitious.

We've had vast amounts of wasted bandwidth while the two most critical issues for pro's have been intentionally avoided time after time. FTL's and the contract.

Anyone caring to rebut that point will discover the joys of cut and paste thrown back in their face. They will aslo have counter the findings of the Swiss accident investigation insisting on culmulative timing including transport and other duties undertaken prior to flight.

Finally, we at the Towers have to make it utterly clear the NJE are facing contract disputes taken to law at a rate a magnitude greater than we have ever seen at any airline.

Caveat Emptor

Regards
Rob

[Wrong Sisters]

Any sane, experienced aviator would be a fool to take the blandishments offered by supposed Net Jet employees as anything other than rose tinted honeymoon whisperings or the ravings of the terminally ambitious. PPRuNe Towers you are spot on and I await MJ's response with interest. Once the market picks up, as it appears to be doing now, I predict an awful lot more will do a runner. You get what you deserve in life and I think NJE are in for a shock; I also suspect they will be totally unhappy to release pilot turnover figures.

This thread has the potential to ignite into another "netjets has the best pilots" - Jammers where are you?

[livinginspain]

Did you leave in equitable circumstances ?

Don't know ?

Were you happy working for them ?

Did you have your salary reduced by 30 % ?

If you were fired, did you get any reason as to why ?

[PPRuNe Towers]

Flight time limitations are a matter of record.

No NJE employee has every given an answer on these limitations. Re read the threads if you have any doubts.

The Crossair report has made extremely clear the JAR/Europs views on cumulative hours.

The UK CAA has had the drafts for many months due to the aircraft type involved in the accident. New methods of auditing all hours of duty including travel and between companies are flying around the various authorities.

Balpa are running a database due to the numbers now involved in litigation.

Let's see those who actually believe any of their writing regarding improving things. Tell pilots reading these threads straight:

Who employs you - the legal, responsible and answerable entity detailed in your contract.

Until that question can be answered reliably anyone considering applying to NJE is gaining less employment protection than a contract pilot out in the third world.

Best pilots in the world or simply the dumbest??

The history of this site is littered with 10 page threads on employment at companies. The one's on the Britannia's, the Monarchs and many others die out in a couple of days. Have a look at the ones that go on and on and on for weeks and months. There are five at the moment and many more from the past.

8 years of running this place tells me this: Smoke + fire = 10 page plus topics.

FTL's as I said at the outset are a matter of public record. They and the contracts are the dirty little secret missing from all these months of enquiries.

It really makes you wonder at the hostility consistently bandied around at those that left the company. I strongly suggest those considering applying take an hour our so to reread every single word published in the last 6 months. Not one word has been edited and the lack of honesty from NJE employees is breathtaking.

I am disgusted at the attacks on pilots who have left NJE from employees who have spent a cumulative 14 pages avoiding answering any question on contracts or flight time limitations.

Regards to all
Rob

PS A private forum should be running out around Easter.

[jammers]

Mr. Michael Jenvey............Your BS has finally risen to the surface on the WORLD-WIDE WEB, through the charity PPRUNE affords us as respected professional pilots (without an obvious agenda). Your cut and paste tactics have been exposed for all to see, your continual avoidance of the question posed time and time again regarding the FTL limitations aspect of the job at NJE, flying under a CAA licence with a mickey mouse INAC validation are blatantly exposed, and I must thank you most sincerely for your unprofessional responses to this thread which have not only attracted the attention of Pprune moderaters but also BALPA, all countries operating under JAA OPS and in a matter of time your COO and FOM:O .............you continually hide behind the supposed confidentiality agreement with NJE, which incidentally only applies to the pax you carry and their scheduled T/O and Dep. times.......FTL's are a matter of public record ol' chap so do us all a favour and stop hiding behind the "my hands are tied behind my back excuse'........you should try restraining your tongue behing your back, but then again that would be quite impossible for a spineless individual..........distinct lack of icons on your last post.....bit pre-occupied are we MJ........I suggest you start practicing your profiled hobby of target-rifle shooting as I believe you and your lot are in the cross-hairs.....ex-RAF ex-HeavyLift and maybe ex-NJE....your hostility and selfrighteousness has now awakened a sleepy giant......

[Wrong Sisters]

Mike (king of cut and paste) old chap. Regarding the quote of mine you posted sadly I was still in the honeymoon period then. As PPRuNe Towers has said you simply cannot hide that what NJE are doing with FTLs on day one is simply morally wrong and, in the end, potentially unsafe. Are you telling me that what is going on is acceptable? If the answer is no - what are you doing about it? If the answer is yes - why have you let your professional standards slip so low?

NJE has the potential to be a great company but you cannot defend the indefensible. Either take off the rose tinted spectacles or take off the blindfold.

[jammers]

Seems to me that after the 'Sermon on the Mount', by PP Towers the sinners have repented by remaining silent and have crawled under their respective rocks or back into their holes...... :) or after taking off their rose-tinted spectacles they can't find their PC's!!

[Kelly Hopper]

Jammers;
You took the works right out of my mouth. Where are they now???

As the NJE lawyers had such a ball writing such a one sided employment contract, who would suppose that the owners/customers may have been stitched up in a comparable manner? Where do they seek redress when things go wrong or the company ceases ops and all those ££££££'s can't be made accountable? Are THEY aware that when NJE told them they operate to JAR OPS 1 standards they were refering to Portuguese JAR OPS 1 standards.

I am sure this dispicable company would not lose a moments' sleep when it all goes wrong, for DM and his cronnies in Lisbon will all be sitting on their wallets fat dumb and happy.

WAKE UP YOU LOT.

[jammers]

MJ you're just full of 'sticks and stones'......checked your 'NJE offshore holding company mickey mouse INAC third world company manual', I'm impressed you can read.....my vindictive comments you make mention to that were modified were simply your own words from your own web-site found at www.jenvey.cwc.net/...........clouding the facts again, and still no mention of FTL's........did PP Towers ever hit the nail on the head with you, mind you it's so big how could he miss
:ok: ........Thank you aswell Rob, be careful though and watch your back, he's only trying to get on your good-side now!!!

[CL300]

NJE is run under the portaria, with as JAR OPS permits some modification of it, if any of you took time and some money to Call INAC in portugal they would have received as I did the full regulation governing Netjets operations since it is a public information....sob.
I cannot tell if Netjets is bending those rules and i'm not a computer wiz to have those scanned and so on. however concerning Flight time limitations here they are ;)

this agreement is dated April,3rd 1998

It is based on Report hour and number of landings as a crew memeber on duty, two or pilot crew.

from 0700to 1359 1 or 2 landings Flight service max is 14 hours 9 or more landings flight service goes down 9 hours
from 1400 to 1559 flight service is 13hours30
1600-1759 Flight service 12h30
18-0359 Flight service is 12h00

for technical crew weekly Duty time 55 hours
monthly flight time 95 hours and duty time 190 hours
quaterly 285 hours Flight time Duty time 480 hours
Yearly 900 flight time 1800 duty time


I 'm not involved directly in this business, but I cannot be more than amazed to see so called pro, fishing around for what it seems to be a crucial information, not to be able to dig this out from the portuguese authorities as I did in a week time...

If I can get my hands on an Netjets contract I let you know, but in the mean time you can go out and ask may be or even better since the pilots seems to be not that good, you can try to submit an application and get there and have a contract with your name on like that you would have a pretty good idea about what is going on (shame I do not hold an ATPL licence :\ )

hang loose

[livinginspain]

One more time then -

"Who employs you - the legal, responsible and answerable entity detailed in your contract."

or is that information confidential too ?

[jammers]

CL300
April 3, 1998......right up to date:rolleyes: you sure that isn't the date of your last medical......I notice you say you are not involved in the business that's probably why you made what seems like an attempt to answer the question, it being, WHEN DOES YOUR DUTY DAY START.......atfq..........by the way, the pro's aren't into third world contracts:ok:

'Let's sum it up. NJE got out of the FTL's required by all other AOC operators in extremely mysterious circumstances. Working for NJE is actually a contract job with no employment law comeback.'

[GashShag]

Livinginspain

For UK pilots, the contract is in the Cayman Islands with NetJets Corporation.
For Non-UK pilots, the contract is in the Isle of Man with....
I hope that helps.

[PPRuNe Towers]

The jungle drums between the authorities are at work again.

Many ears to the ground listening in to DGAC.

While the report on the Flash Airlines accident will in all probability be just as delayed as Egyptair 990 the crew duty hours and the positioning are now clearly understood.

At some point the French public will discover what is already being passed around informally. At that point it becomes a political hot potato and Europs will be dragged kicking and screaming into the fray.

Brittle smiles at INAC guaranteed if you mention Crossair and Flash in the same breath - try it. You might be impressed with the effect.

Regards
Rob

[livinginspain]

thank you gash shag , great name btw !

[scambuster]

I heard that uk pilots were employed by uk company and pay uk tax as per paye. Non uk pilots are employed by an isle of man company and do not pay tax at source.

[MFRA]

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.,

Remember this when you read the post's of "experts" like jammers or livinginspain!

Ciao

[publius]

With respectful regards to your last post..........

MFRA
Instead of being 'just another number' I could order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
posted 12th October 2002 07:58
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6 and 5 does not exist anymore at netjets europe, you work 18 days and they will TRY to give you a 6 and 5.

Minimum rest between to rotations can be as little as 36 hours, but they will TRY to give 5 days

Currently, pilots fly the full 18 and more.

There are no LHS positions on the hawker, just bravo and excel.

F/O salary: 40.500,-- euro.

Bond for 3 years, typed or not.

Pilots are generally unhappy with items like duty times and upgrade policy.

Have fun
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would assume that if you are in any doubt of the previous posts by livinginspain, , Capt. Crash, jammers, Mike Jenvey, silverhawk etc. etc then let me refresh your short term memory loss with an extremely interesting post by a Ppune moderator...

PPRuNe Towers
Dep Chief PPRuNe Pilot
(IC Lavs & Dunnies)
posted 7th February 2004 13:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I meet Net Jet crews from the left side of the pond on just about a weekly basis. The two major threads running here are baffling to them. Other than the griping legally required to maintain a current licence they like the place, the equipment and most of the work practices.

The problem facing all the NJE cheerleaders here is their resolute refusal page after page after page to answer any question in a straight forward manner. This is actually a polite way of saying ducking, diving and consistently, pointedly and egregiously obscuring the truth.

Earlier this week I spoke face to face with a PPRuNer and asked for the most concise and brutal analysis of the issues being purposely obscured - the ones most important to those considering employment. The reason? PPRuNe is for the benefit of pilots and not companies.

The post by Kelly Hopper was the response I received. Note that the regular suspects have not refered to it, refuted a single word or rebutted any point whether historically or in terms of current arrangements. Digs and sneering are a semantic null - devoid of meaning and discounted totally here at the Towers.

The Air Luxor AOC and standard FTL's are a fact.

Generic Portugese FTL's are a fact.

The utterly err, unique NJE ummm, arrangement is a fact and a particularly interesting one in the light of the Crossair Jumbolina report. Something that would prove very interesting tested in employment, civil or criminal law. Something the legal section of the Portugese authorities should be looking at pretty sharpish to cover their own arses.

Let's sum it up. NJE got out of the FTL's required by all other AOC operators in extremely mysterious circumstances. Working for NJE is actually a contract job with no employment law comeback.

Any sane, experienced aviator would be a fool to take the blandishments offered by supposed Net Jet employees as anything other than rose tinted honeymoon whisperings or the ravings of the terminally ambitious.

We've had vast amounts of wasted bandwidth while the two most critical issues for pro's have been intentionally avoided time after time. FTL's and the contract.

Anyone caring to rebut that point will discover the joys of cut and paste thrown back in their face. They will aslo have counter the findings of the Swiss accident investigation insisting on culmulative timing including transport and other duties undertaken prior to flight.

Finally, we at the Towers have to make it utterly clear the NJE are facing contract disputes taken to law at a rate a magnitude greater than we have ever seen at any airline.

Caveat Emptor

Regards

Followed by:

PPRuNe Towers
Dep Chief PPRuNe Pilot
(IC Lavs & Dunnies)
posted 7th February 2004 22:55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flight time limitations are a matter of record.

No NJE employee has every given an answer on these limitations. Re read the threads if you have any doubts.

The Crossair report has made extremely clear the JAR/Europs views on cumulative hours.

The UK CAA has had the drafts for many months due to the aircraft type involved in the accident. New methods of auditing all hours of duty including travel and between companies are flying around the various authorities.

Balpa are running a database due to the numbers now involved in litigation.

Let's see those who actually believe any of their writing regarding improving things. Tell pilots reading these threads straight:

Who employs you - the legal, responsible and answerable entity detailed in your contract.

Until that question can be answered reliably anyone considering applying to NJE is gaining less employment protection than a contract pilot out in the third world.

Best pilots in the world or simply the dumbest??

The history of this site is littered with 10 page threads on employment at companies. The one's on the Britannia's, the Monarchs and many others die out in a couple of days. Have a look at the ones that go on and on and on for weeks and months. There are five at the moment and many more from the past.

8 years of running this place tells me this: Smoke + fire = 10 page plus topics.

FTL's as I said at the outset are a matter of public record. They and the contracts are the dirty little secret missing from all these months of enquiries.

It really makes you wonder at the hostility consistently bandied around at those that left the company. I strongly suggest those considering applying take an hour our so to reread every single word published in the last 6 months. Not one word has been edited and the lack of honesty from NJE employees is breathtaking.

I am disgusted at the attacks on pilots who have left NJE from employees who have spent a cumulative 14 pages avoiding answering any question on contracts or flight time limitations.

Regards to all
Rob

PS A private forum should be running out around Easter.

Are you the journalist or an unfortunate pilot with a 3rd world contract?

[MFRA]

Thanks for refreshing my short term memory, has nothing to do with my previous post though!

All I'm saying, is that there is a lot of bithing and mud thowing going on, based on rumours and "have heard from a friend" info.

Ciao

[publius]

MFRA says

'All I'm saying, is that there is a lot of bithing and mud thowing going on, based on rumours and "have heard from a friend" info.'

Just in case you're forgetting where you're posting, this is the Professional Pilots 'Rumour' Network:ok:

[livinginspain]

What make you think that its based on rumour and "heard from a friend " ? Could it not actually be true ? or is that that you just refuse to accept that some companies can behave like this ?
Look at the number of entries about nje, do you really think this is all sour grapes ? or envy ?

There are many pilots who have felt the wrath of nje, so I suggest that you may be a little quick to come out with the 'rumour and heard from a friend' routine.

The spirited defence of the company by several individuals is laudable, ( and is probably a company requirement when the printout is taken in to the upper echalon office is LIS for the pat on the head ! ) but in the end they may come to understand how this company operates, like many others before them.

These threads should, in my opinion, be treated as words of caution to other would be employees. They are, with one or two exceptions, intended to be informative and evoke discussion, but above all they are for the benefit of our brother and sister pilots. When we start the personal attacks on each other, we are certainly not achieving anything positive. Our energies would be better directed at bringing to light and exposing practices which have resulted in many well intended pilots being thrown out of a job, in many instances for absolutely no reason, other than it suiting various individuals personal agendas in Portugal. The disparate nature of aviation has dictated that there has been no cohesion amongst those so affected, ( not a situation gone unnoticed by LIS ) Is it not about time that individuals got organised ? actually got together and organised some method of redressing matters ?

Now would be the time for all those suggestions folks, now that would be useful !

[nxmember]

I HAVE BEEN WITH NJE AROUND 9 MONTHS AND STILL ENJOYING IT. I HAVE FLOWN A TOTAL OF ABOUT 180 HRS AND IT ONLY TOOK ME FIVE MONTHS TO GET UPGRADED. I USUALLY AVERAGE 15 DAYS A MONTH AND HAVEN'T EXCEEDED 18 DAYS ONCE.

THE COMPANY NEEDS CAPTAINS AND ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT EMPLOY DIRECT ENTRY CAPTAINS IF YOU MEET THE REQUIREMENTS YOU WILL GET AN UPGRADE WITHIN 6 MONTHS. THERE WERE GUYS ON MY UPGRADE COURSE WITH LESS THAN 3000 HRS.

THE ONES THAT MOAN ABOUT UPGRADE POLICY ARE USUALLY THE ONES THAT HAVE COCKED UP ON THE COURSE. THE ONES THAT MOAN ABOUT THE COMPANY ARE USUALLY THE ONES THAT GOT THE FLICK FOR COCKING UP, AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME MAJOR COCK UPS IN THE PAST. (THERE IS STILL SOME DEAD WOOD AROUND BUT THEY ARE WORKING ON IT).

FO'S PAY 40500-45000 (EUROS P.A.) +15000P.A BASED IN EUROPE. (+20% FOR UK BASED PILOTS)

TRAINING BONDS
3 YEARS FOR PILOTS WITH LESS THAN 5000 HOURS
1 YEAR FOR THOSE WITH MORE THAN 5000 HOURS.
AND IT IS ONLY ON THE INITIAL RATING. I GOT MYSELF TWO TYPE RATINGS WITHIN 5 MONTHS AND I ONLY HAVE 3 MONTHS LEFT ON MY BOND.
THESE JUST TO CLARIFY SOME OF THE BS MENTIONED ABOVE.

FTLS

INAC FTLS AND THEY ARE NOT MUCH DIFFERENT TO UK.

REGARDING THE FIRST DAY IT IS NOT ANY DIFFERENT TO THE BA AND VIRGIN CREWS THAT CHOOSE TO LIVE IN FRANCE (ABOUT 300 OF THEM, FOR OBVIOUS TAX BENEFITS). THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THOSE CREWS HAVE TO PURCHASE THEIR OWN ID90 TKT AND POSITION TO LHR PRIOR TO STARTING THEIR DUTY WHERE AS WE GET TO CHOOSE WHERE WE LIVE AND THE COMPANY FLY US TO WHERE THE AIRCRAFT IS ON THE FIRST DAY.

BEST JOB I VE HAD. JUST TRY TO KEEP IT SIMPLE, GO TO WORK DO YOUR BIT KEEP YOUR PLATE CLEAN AND ENJOY YOUR 4-5 DAYS OFF AT THE END OF IT.

LI KE I VE SAID BEFORE. IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY LEAVE.

[cambioso]

"Stitch that" moaners and mud-slingers !!!
Well said nxmember !!

[AIRWAY]

nxmember,

Clap Clap Clap, loved it :ok:

Safe Flying
:}

[FALCON.net]

GOOD ..Thank You...

[silverhawk]

nx member

honeymoon period, rose-tinted glasses etc. Do hope it continues to work for you.

By the way--- your CAPS LOCK is stuck

[publius]

cambioso "Stitch that" moaners and mud-slingers !!!

1."The spirited defence of the company by several individuals is laudable, ( and is probably a company requirement when the printout is taken in to the upper echalon office is LIS for the pat on the head ! ) but in the end they may come to understand how this company operates, like many others before them"

2."Pilots are generally unhappy with items like duty times and upgrade policy"

3."The problem facing all the NJE cheerleaders here is their resolute refusal page after page after page to answer any question in a straight forward manner. This is actually a polite way of saying ducking, diving and consistently, pointedly and egregiously obscuring the truth."

4."Let's sum it up. NJE got out of the FTL's required by all other AOC operators in extremely mysterious circumstances. Working for NJE is actually a contract job with no employment law comeback."

5."ANY SANE, experienced aviator would be a fool to take the blandishments offered by supposed Net Jet employees as anything other than rose tinted honeymoon whisperings or the ravings of the terminally ambitious."

6."Finally, we at the Towers have to make it utterly clear the NJE are facing contract disputes taken to law at a rate a magnitude greater than we have ever seen at any airline."

7."FTL's as I said at the outset are a matter of public record. They and the contracts are the dirty little secret missing from all these months of enquiries"

8."It really makes you wonder at the hostility consistently bandied around at those that left the company. I strongly suggest those considering applying take an hour our so to reread every single word published in the last 6 months. Not one word has been edited and the lack of honesty from NJE employees."

9."We at the Towers have to make it utterly clear the NJE are facing contract disputes taken to law at a rate a magnitude greater than we have ever seen at any airline."

PPRuNe Towers
Dep Chief PPRuNe Pilot

Cambioso(sounds like a type of ripe cheese)

The 'Threads' found above will provide the powers that be, including all JAA OPS Authorities and Operators, who view this site on a daily basis,the sufficient material to 'Stitch' together(couldn't resist the pun) a quilt which will eventually smother and then reveal all the 'dirty little secrets', which keeps your outfit afloat through the power of the 'backhander'. .......who knows, DM might even have to pay back his former employer his training bond, after having done a runner........

[Bames]

Glad to hear nxmember enjoys his life with NJE. He probably hopes that the admin in Lisbon can find his identity by the clues he left of himself in his post. Maybe his advancement in the company will be boosted further. Then again, maybe not.
The INAC FTLs are probably not much different from UK ones. Question is: How are they interpreted? A pilot lives in Madrid, for example, and in an extreme case starts his duty in Helsinki or Istanbul. Is the travel time included in duty time calculations, or not?
The difference to a UK pilot commuting to work from France is that he or she chooses to do it on his time off. Whether this is wise, safe or whatever is another matter. In case of NJE, the pilot is told by the employer to airline out to somewhere, so IMHO it should count towards the total duty time.
BTW, nxmember, how is your contract? UK, EU or offshore..?

[Kelly Hopper]

Nxmember.

Perhaps after your honeymoon you would explain why UK pilots get an extra 20% on their salaries. Is it because they are the best of the "best pilots in the world" or maybe something a little more sinister?

NJE could have been the best job in aviation if it had been set up honestly.Why defend the indefendable? You are doing yourself no favours and when DM throws the mud at you then you will realise!

[livinginspain]

The salary difference is only because something had to be done to compensate for possible tax liability. I hear on the old 'vine that a certain individual from LIS informed the revenue in the UK first, then told the individuals concerned what he had done. Another classic way of keeping the staff enthusiastic, happy and cheerful.
That was after reducing certain salaries by up to 30 %.....

[270/55G75]

If NJE wants to take the travel time into consideration they will reduce to a limited amount of bases and people will have to relocate. My guess is pilots prefer it the way it is now. The example of the BA pilot living in france is relevant in this issue.
NJE is a company growing rapidly and offering opportunities for pilots in a rotten marketplace. The contract and some other things are not the best but for sure a very good alternative. Probably a lot will change in the future.

[publius]

AIRWAY
Sorry to hear you have the CLAP CLAP CLAP.........must have been quite the threesome!

[exjet]

Off the subject - but a little info needed

I'm trying to find out about a pilot and if he is now employed by Netjets Europe. Could one of you NJ pilots send me a pm with a contact and telephone number so I can do the running around.

Many thanks

[Level Buster]

I have read this post with much interest and appreciate the positive contributions from current Netjets pilots.
I am keen to join and am currently about to make a decision to go for it.
A big factor for me is the basing requirement. The available gateways for basing seem limited to only the major international airports. My question is how far would I be allowed to live from this gateway. I understand it might be 1 hr drive, but I would possibly be looking at 21/2 hrs.

[Kelly Hopper]

Level Buster.
With a handle like that you could be just what NetJets are looking for! Sorry, I could not resist it.

But really, don't confuse base with gateway. You have no base with NJE only a place, and not neccessarily one airport, to position out to duty from. For example: If you live in London you could be positioned from LHR or LGW or STN or LTN and returning to LON. ie: You may leave your car in LTN only to find 6 days later you return to LHR. In any case you are expected to be within 1 hour by road of your "gateway".

Best of luck mate.

[CL300]

FlightSafety, NetJets Performance Fell in 2003
Profits soared last year at Warren Buffett’s holding company Berkshire Hathaway, though not all of the company’s units did well. In his annual letter to shareholders, released on Saturday, Buffett summarized the reduced performance of FlightSafety International and NetJets. FlightSafety operating earnings dropped from $183 million to $150 million, partly as the result of a one-time, pre-tax gain in 2002 from the sale of FlightSafety’s partnership interest in the former FlightSafety Boeing Training International. The corporate aviation business has slowed significantly in the past few years, noted Buffett, “and this fact has also hurt FlightSafety’s results.” Meanwhile, NetJets lost $41 million in 2003, according to Buffett. The company had a “modest operating profit” in the U.S., but this was more than offset by a $32 million loss on aircraft inventory and by continued losses in Europe. The $32 million loss NetJets took last year occurred because of falling prices for used aircraft early in the year, Buffett said. Despite the losses in Europe, “we are now adding European customers at a good pace. During the years 2001 through 2003, we had gains of 88, 61 and 77 percent, respectively, in European management-and-flying revenues.”

Any comments ?

[captainflame]

#1- No jurisdiction in the UK, was for an abusive lay off suit.

#2- Nowadays, NetJets crews in the UK have a UK work contract it seems (none of this offshore Cayman stuff anymore)

#3- Seems the same in Portugal for Portuguese crew.

#4- Anyone living elsewhere still under offshore not-worth-the-paper-contracts....with obviously much thinner benefits... (same job same pay ? Naaaa!)

#5- I won't go on

.....individual EU contries are slowly catching up to this company and their less than recommendable HR practices.

Cheers

[publius]

Maybe why the new FOM has come on board, since the last one was managing EU REGISTERED A/C without a JAA Licence........maybe just washing dirty linen?

[livinginspain]

captainflame
what is "an abusive lay off suit" ?

sound great !

is that wrongful dismissal ?
if so where was it heard ?
and what was the outcome ?

all very interesting.......

[mr blue sky]

hey captainflame, are you not capable of backing up your statements???

or just more hot air ( flame ) ?

[happyjack]

Trying to get any real info on the netjets subject is difficult but could someone please explain how when the Portuguese INAC FTL`s maintain that positioning time out at the start of duty must be recorded at 100% and positioning back to base at 50%, netjets pilots record this as nil duty time?
Regardless of whether it is right, wrong,safe or dangerous it IS completely contrary to Portuguese regulations. Why?

[montys ex teaboy]

Level Buster.

Good luck to you.

Bare in mind they have a very strange recruitment set up. Let me try and explain. I know people that have been and are still current on at least one A/C that is operated by NJE, very experienced in some cases. Dear I say it probably more experienced than "half the management put together" at NJE and they cant even get an interview.

Now some cheer leaders at Netjets will tell you that the mountain of applications is such, every time an advert hits "Flight" for NJE crews it's first in first served (Gotta be quick if you wanna be snapped up be the NASA equivalent). Well if that’s the case, an outfit in a banana republic would beat them hands down.

I'm not an economist by any stretch of the imagination, but at least give some of these qualified people an interview if nothing else. Or is the NJE goldmine such a bottomless pit that has limitless funds to spend on initial training etc, when there are qualified people around? If that is so why not pay the crews a bit more? It is not as if they are paying a great salary at present. :}

[Altyre]

Hi guys
I attended a NetJets Europe interview in Amsterdam on May 17th (3 weeks today) and haven't heard a word yet. How long does it usually take to get an answer from them? I had Monica on the phone 10 days ago who said next week maybe 2. It's starting to be difficult to have my heart jump everytime the phone rings!

[Kopeloi]

It can take few weeks, don´t worry. I assume that they will need a lot of pilots this year. So your chances are better now than ever.
Nikolai

[french clover]

Hello ALTYRE,
I received the answer from NJE the day after the interviews(which where held in MAY).No indoc course is planned before July,due to the soccer tournament in LIS.
They will hire over 50 pilots until the end of the year and the hiring departement is quite busy.
For any information about NJE ,send a PM.
By the way ,any news about this Declan Dxxxxx we met a few months ago in DUB?
Good luck.

[Altyre]

No, never heard from Ryanair anymore and I'm not too surprised! This Stefan Jxxxxxxxx never impressed me very much!
I was with some former colleagues of yours in AMS, I don't know if they had any news, one was a CDR and the other one an FO on the CRJ. Anyway hope to see you soon in Portugal or a NetJets aircraft!

It's not a great idea to name drop on this forum unless obviously appropriate

[unimuts]

I am unable to locate information on the simulator section for netjets recruitment. I would like help to lern more what to expect, it will be in ge capitol 17 december.

Thank you all



:ok:

[4HolerPoler]

Unimuts or Uninuts?

NJE management spend a bit of their time looking at this site - do you really want them to know that you're looking for a heads-up here? I'd seriously suggest removing the date from your post to assure yourself some semblance of cover. Probably too late already.

The words "wet" and "behind the ears" spring to mind.

Remember to tell them you heard about it first on PPRuNe. Good luck.

4HP

[Flintstone]

Why should he?

For one he's hardly going to attend an interview wearing a big badge that says "I AM UNIMUTS AND I FREQUENT PPRUNE" is he, so how will they know who he is?

Secondly I can't think of any company anywhere who wouldn't expect interviewees to try and get some inside info. It's hardly protected under the Official Secrets Act now is it?

Talk about pick on the newbie.


Edited to say: Unimuts, check your email.

[redsnail]

I replied to your question here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155140).

[unimuts]

Thnk you redsnail

Also thnks to you flintstone.

I am need of help as this is a very imptant opertunity for me and wish to be very good on the day. Not many opertunitys like this happen often. So i am happy to do my research.

thanks all and good luck to those who also have simulator sessions.

Unimuts

[4HolerPoler]

I'm sorry unimuts, I apologize, no offence.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

4HP

[JoeCo]

A little harsh 4HP.

Unimuts, you and hundreds of other NJ applicant have the exact same intentions. I did come across a site some time ago refered to as a Gouge (??). Baically it was a place were applicants could submit a moment by moment profile of their specific interview, available to whomever cared to hear it. Although this style of informing others seems to be predominantly American, and therefore predominantly for the NJ USA interviews, I am sure anything would be better then nothing. I'll try and track down the site and pass it on. I think it was something like www.aviationinterviews.com??? I'll see what I can dig up.

All the best.

Joe

--> Just did a very basic search on google and that was it. Click on the link, sign up (its free) and start reading. Good Luck.

As a point of interest for others, there are a number of other airlines/fractionals/charter companies, not just NetJets, on this site for those who may be preparing for an interview or just plain interested in the interviewing process.

[Tefal Ted]

Hi unimuts,
If i could be of some help, the sim and interview is mostly held at CAE in Amsterdam. You will do psychometric tests, followed by group assement and individual interviews with HR and training dept.
The sim in Amsterdam will be the DO328 jet, mostly raw data, engine failure and SE ILS to land. Fairly straight forward except the DO328 sim is a real hand full the first time. They will mainly be looking at your CRM, basic handling and decision making.
If the session is held at Flight Safety, Le Bourget, the sim will be on a Citation V, which is an easier animal to handle.

Good Luck

[silverhawk]

No-one flies into an airfield by accident (hopefully!), you take a look at it on the Jepps or aerads beforehand. IMO should be the same for a sim ride, whether it's an interview or an LPC, should be a comprehensive brief available a few days prior to box time.


Unimuts, hope it went well

[redsnail]

silverhawk,
For the Netjets sim ride you're not given any thing untill the day of your ride. The guys tell you what you'll be doing and off you go. If your hand flying and IR skills are fine then the flying isn't too difficult.

From what I can gather, they want to see if your CRM, interpersonal skills are good and you have some trainability. Also they want to see common sense applied too and you keep every one in the loop as to what's going on.

Personally, I found it one of the most relaxed sim checks I have ever done. Dare I say I even enjoyed it. ;) (Gatwick sim)

[Flintstone]

Hey Silverhawk. You get to self-brief an airport four days before going there?

You psychic or something? ;)

[PorcoRosso]

Usually, my boss let me know 2 hours before take-off where we go ;)
I wish I had 4 days !

[sixfeetabove]

I just got a call from Netjets offering an interview either on next Friday in Gatwick or in April!

I urgently need information on what to expect!!!

What do they gonna ask me?

Cheers!

[Son of a Beech]

I was in AMS, did two hours of sim, 1 hr PF one PNF, SID, ILS, SE G/A, ILS Landing and some basic flying (speed, holding etc) All raw date, And the interview was fairly basic talk about my history

but search in PPRUNE under netjets, there should be about 20.000 subjects with lots of info about the grading.

good luck on the Sim

SOAB

[Riker]

sixfeetabove,

Great job on getting the interview! Can you tell us about your experience so that we can guage whether we might be called anytime soon? I have heard great things about Netjets but you will read a lot of negatives on this forum (probably from pilots that couldn't pass the interview...). Good luck!

[netjets]

I would have a look about before commiting to Netjets, the T & C can change and I would be very careful what they say at interview.

There are jobs elsewhere offering more money, more reliable airplanes, more holiday, private travel benefits, better career progression (e.g. a useful type rating rather than the Hawker 400) and more honest management.

NJ

[sixfeetabove]

@Riker!

Yeah, I am very happy they called me! I have exactly 1510 hours TT, 1125 hours on jets (C550 / Falcon 50) and a Falcon 50 / 900 TR. I applied two weeks ago! That was really fast!

All the Netjets-Drivers I meet on the airports are happy. And they definitly encouraged me to apply!


@netjets

Where???

[Dutchie]

@ netjetsThere are jobs elsewhere offering more money, more reliable airplanes, more holiday, private travel benefits, better career progression (e.g. a useful type rating rather than the Hawker 400) and more honest management.

I feel a big : the grass is greener in the other pasture :8

Well don't leave us in more tension who is this great company you are reffering to????

[Jambalaya]

Dutchie and anyone else going to a Netjets interview.

Netjets is right. No matter what they tell you or put into your contract they will change it if they want. They have done it and will do it again.

It does not matter if it is in writting, it will changeif some one decide that they want you to work more than you agreed.

Netjets pilots in the US are discussing a strike. In europe this will not happen because the pilots are never all together and the company know this.

[Dutchie]

Still no answer to the question. What is this great company that has better pay, better holidays, better schedule, etc then NetJets? Oh and throw in job security and big change to move to the left seat within your lifetime as well . :rolleyes:

There is too much nonsense on the board and by giving an answer rather than BS it helps people decide. :mad:

The only people who seem to be unhappy are the ones on Pprune. The ones I spoke to seem to be happy. so should I believe people who work there or the ones that pretend?? :ok:

[Jambalaya]

Dutchie. If you ask someone to tell you what they think of Netjets they will give you a ready reply but will it be the truth?

If you worked for Netjets you would now what happens to people that say what they think.

Fact 1. Netjets cut salarys and made pilots sign new contract. Those who did not want to sign were told they do not get a new contract at the end of the old one.

Fact 2. Contracts all said that crew work 6 days and get 5 days off. This was explained at interview and this was explained on indoc in Lisbon. Netjets decided that crew should at least work 18 days a month. 6 and 5 and 18 does not go into one month. Crew were sent ammendements to the contract. No discusion, no question, just sign or else.

Fact 3. Vacation policy has been changed. No discusion, no question, no matter what you contract say. Crew must work 18 days a month. If they take 5 days vacation they can still be made to work 17 days so really only get one day vacation!

Tell me this is BS? Tell me this is good managment.

If you get the job in Netjets you want I would like to here you one year later after what you agreed to is no longer there..

[publius]

I guess we can't ask CM either seeing that he's even been barred from entering the NJE building in LIS:(

[High Viz Vest]

All the Netjets-Drivers I meet on the airports are happy. And they definitly encouraged me to apply!

Thats cos they are going to go for your job when you leave to fly netjets ;)

All the original old faces I knew who went to Netjets in the early days when they were desperate for captains seem to have left now and they have been replaced by lower paid smiling androids, Maybe.

[Dutchie]

Sorry, as far as I know there is still no answer:

Give me the name of the operator that has better conditions There are jobs elsewhere offering more money, more reliable airplanes, more holiday, private travel benefits, better career progression

All people that I have spoken to about Netjets who WORK THERE are very positive. The only ones that are negative are the ones that seem to be working somewhere else and feel threatend in their job as NetJets seems to do extremely well :ok:

So give me an answer not BS!:oh:

[netjets]

BA
B Med
GB
Easyjet
Flybe
Flightline
Lufthansa
Air France

To name but a few.

And yes I'm going in the next few months and I wont be the only one!!!

[Jambalaya]

Well Netjets and me work there so seems not all are happy.

And I would say 30% of pilots on my fleet are looking for other jobs.

See Dutchie? You do not know everything.

[EXCIN]

Happy or not... I think in every Airline there are pilots who are happy and others who are not. It has always been like that !!
In the company where I currently fly it's the same.

[Dutchie]

My point exactly Excin.

That is why I have not seen a like for like comparison. If you do a search on any of the airlines below (although I have not seen AF actually) you will find people slagging of their own airline and saying that any other place is better... Human nature i guess.. :rolleyes:

[His dudeness]

I always thought it might be a better deal at NJE than what I have. I`m very often doing some 22 to 23 days a month, we just can`t get the offdays we are entitled to by law (8 days at home with notice), the newest A/C I fly is a 5 year old, the oldest is 14 years, we very often handle ourselves, we pick up catering and newspapers, we clean the interior and recater the a/c, we do flight planning etc.
BUT NJE didn`t bother to answer when I applied 2 years ago, nor when I applied 1 year ago. THIS time I got a nice note, basically saying: sorry , too much applicants, we keep it, but....
After 15 years of executive flying with a total of 6100 hours. 2000 on a type they operate, I thought that I might be interesting for them. What really pisses me of, is that I applied EARLIER than guys that have an interview coming up soon.
I really would give my right arm for a schedule....

[pistulaza]

Anyone know if netjet is hiring pilots in Europe?
What Is the Policy?

[v1r8]

1) Yes

2) show up with 1500 TT, and a pulse during your interview.

[redsnail]

It would appear that you also need a valid type rating on an aircraft +5700kg to appease the TSA in the USA.

[toothpaste67]

Oh yeah and read up on some technical stuff- it's not a multiple choice test, you actually have to write the answer with your own words.

"What is an extended v2 climb etc." easy peasy-

and fly the sim- raw data, SID, STAR, approach , engine faliure, NDB land- swap seats, and the other guy gets a go.

No problem if you have a pulse...

[pistulaza]

Understand, what do you mean for pulse?

[redsnail]

pulse = heart beat, ie you're alive.

[pistulaza]

Do you thunk my experience is enough?

[lifeafterflying]

You sound purfickt for the job, good luck.