Continental Jet Incident approaching TLV

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Two Israeli Air Force jets were scrambled today when a Continental Jet lost radio contact approaching TLV airspace. Contact was only resumed once within 15kms from land. At this stage it was already in close contact with the two jets which were ready to act appropriately if need be. Just after it was discovered it was a true technical communication fault and not a hijacking, was the aircraft allowed to land at Ben Gurion Airport.
For my Hebrew speaking friends:
דרמה נוספת היום בנמל התעופה בן גוריון: מטוסי קרב של חיל האוויר הוזנקו הערב (11.4.07) לעבר מטוס של חברת קונטיננטל, ועליו 256 נוסעים, לאחר שנותק עימו הקשר. רק לאחר דקות ארוכות ומורטות עצבים הסתבר שמדובר בתקלה טכנית, והמטוס הורשה לנחות.ערנות גבוהה בנוגע לטרור אווירי
מטוסי חיל האוויר ליוו את המטוס עד שהקשר בינו לבין מגדל הפיקוח בנמל התעופה בן גוריון חודש, והוא הורשה לנחות בשדה התעופה. במערכת הביטחון קיימת ערנות גבוהה בכל הקשור לטרור אווירי, ולכן מטוסי קרב נמצאים בכוננות מתמדת.
הקשר עם המטוס אבד עם התקרבו לישראל, וחודש רק כשהיה במרחק של פחות מ-15 ק"מ מחופי הארץ. בשלב זה כבר היו מטוסי חיל האויר בקרבת מטוס הנוסעים, מוכנים להפילו אם ידרשו לכך. ראש הממשלה ושר הביטחון עודכנו בפרטי הדרמה, והרמטכ"ל ומפקד חיל האוויר היו בקשר עם אנשי חיל האוויר שניהלו את האירוע.
רשות התעופה וחיל האוויר חוקרים את האירוע
רק לאחר שהתברר מעל לכל ספק כי הסיבה לטיסה שלא על פי הנהלים היא תקלה טכנית במערכת הקשר, וכי לא מדובר במטוס חטוף, הורשה המטוס לנחות בנתב"ג.
דובר משרד התחבורה, אבנר עובדיה, סיפר כי "רשות התעופה האזרחית יחד עם חיל האוויר חוקרים את האירוע ואחד הכיוונים העיקריים הוא בעיות קשר במטוס עצמו". הדובר הוסיף כי מדובר בנוהל קבוע: "פנו אל המטוס ממגדל הפיקוח ולא היה מענה. התעורר חשד, והוחלט להזניק מטוסים ולבדוק שלא מדובר במטוס עוין. נוצר קשר עין עם הטייסים והפנו את המטוס לים".

[bomarc]

CNN just reported this story on Wolf blitzer's show.

during the course of a "handoff"/ frequency change something went amiss somewhere by someone.

but who?

CAL says their pilots did procedures correctly.

it would seem that the Israeli fighter pilots were quite prudent in their actions too.

just seems to prove that the radio is as important as the wing to modern aviation .

[Julian Hensey]

http://news.google.co.uk/news?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&tab=wn&ncl=1115272356&hl=en

[sir.pratt]

just seems to prove that the radio is as important as the wing to modern aviation .

so why didn't it fall out of the sky when the radio failed to work?

aviate
navigate
communicate.


it comes last for a reason.

[bomarc]

it came close to being shot down...4 jet fighters scrabled...that is quite a response to NORDO.

the radio started working , explanations understood, and they didn't fall (read shot down) out of the sky

[West Coast]

"it came close to being shot down"

Really?

Evidence please, and being intercepted doesn't meet the burden of proof.

[bomarc]

I have NO evidence other than published reports...here is one that should interest you. It is from USAToday online and was just posted...it also quotes the Jerusalem Post.

Israelis: We came close to shooting down American passenger jet

Israeli fighters buzzed an American jet this afternoon after the civilian aircraft failed to check in with the airport on its approach to Israel.

"This was the closest we ever came to intercepting a civilian airplane," a military officer tells the Jerusalem Post.

The paper says Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and his top generals were put on alert in case they had to authorize the military pilots to shoot down the Continental Airlines flight, carrying 273 people, as it approached Israeli airspace.

The fighter jets conducted a visual inspection when the plane was within five minutes of Tel Aviv.

"From the moment that we lost contact with (the jet) we treated the incident as a possible terror act. When the fighter jets approached the plane, they guided it west. It contacted us and that's how we were sure it was not a terror attempt," a source tells Ynet News

[FLCH]

Was there a call from XXX nm out or was guard monitored ?? We'll see....

[kellmark]

Did the Israelis know to contact CO's System Ops Center and get the flight dispatcher to send an ACARs message to the crew to come up on the appropriate frequency? This would have solved the problem in a few moments. This is done all of the time with US carriers and no interceptors are launched. US Part 121 carriers are required to have a separate comm system to be able to do this. It is routine in the case of lost comms.

[Dream Land]

I think if I operated in that part of the world, I would make a prudent effort to monitor 121.5.

[Another Number]

Anyone still game to take Continental from Newark to Tel Aviv?

Either the most dangerous or luckiest route going, depending on which way you look at it!


(QV: Current pprune thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=269498) on the 777 engine failure)

[F4F]

Israelis: We came close to shooting down American passenger jet

Israeli fighters buzzed an American jet this afternoon after the civilian aircraft failed to check in with the airport on its approach to Israel.

"This was the closest we ever came to intercepting a civilian airplane," a military officer tells the Jerusalem Post.

The paper says Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and his top generals were put on alert in case they had to authorize the military pilots to shoot down the Continental Airlines flight, carrying 273 people, as it approached Israeli airspace.

The fighter jets conducted a visual inspection when the plane was within five minutes of Tel Aviv.

"From the moment that we lost contact with (the jet) we treated the incident as a possible terror act. When the fighter jets approached the plane, they guided it west. It contacted us and that's how we were sure it was not a terror attempt," a source tells Ynet News.

Reading this makes my blood boil in anger and sadness, what kinda world are we living in?

Please, armies of the World, stop killing innocent people!

[Dogma]

Seems reasonable to me. They appear to have been close to "fully" intercepting this Conny. Should the Pilots have follow the ICAO Interception procedures, they will remain bound for their Destination. Fail and you will be escorted to an Airforce Base. Fail to follow that instruction then its-

"Game Over"

The military procs' are there to protect the majority!

[Skipness One Echo]

Your blood boils at SOP in sending an interceptor to look at an airliner that has lost contact?
You are angry about what?
No one was killed, a sensible precaution was taken. The aircraft didn't fly into any civilian target. A good says work for all concerned.
What is your practical and constructive suggestion? Sit upon one's hands and hope it's R/T failure and not aiming for the Knesset?
Sheeessh! All together now, KUM BAH YA M'LORD KUM BAH YAH.
Come on you middle eastern chaps, DO sing up.
F4F - go find a darkend room and lie down.

[bomarc]

if the 777 crew KNEW they had a com failure, then they might have done the 76 trombones thing.

(slang: squak 7600, lost com)

so they didn't know.

must be a long flight...a little tired upfront?

who knows...but no one can ever take another chance

[lomapaseo]

I really don't believe news reports with any official attribution bragging about how close they came to shooting down an airliner that was not being communicative. We expect step by step procedures no more no less

[archae86]

I really don't believe news reports with any official attribution bragging about how close they came to shooting down an airliner that was not being communicative. We expect step by step procedures no more no lessIf interception ever reaches the point of actually shooting, a hideous outcome has already occurred, even if a yet more hideous one is averted.
To make that less likely, a deterrence point of view requires that it both be true and that it believed to be true that the ultimate action can and will be taken at need.
Given the adversaries of interest, press reports of this kind may be about the main tool available to deter perpetrators who can be persuaded that their effort on this method will fail.

[singpilot]

I fly this route a lot. From the FIR to the ADIZ is not very far. Maybe 30 minutes from touchdown. Not a lot of time to second guess.

Sounds like all of the procedures worked. No matter what happened to cause it.

If any of you slept peacefully in Tel Aviv after a long flight, it was precisely BECAUSE of the intense security that you slept well.

[Alpine Flyer]

The German "Supreme Court" (Bundesverfassungsgericht, i.e. the court watching over the constitution) last year ruled that the interception of civil aircraft on the suspicion that they might constitute a danger is unconstitutional as it puts one life against another which is not a right of the state to do.

Sounds civilized to me.

[West Coast]

Should a German building come down from an airliner, I imagine that ruling will be revisited.

[ChristiaanJ]

Isn't this called a no-brainer?
200 deaths in an airliner.....
OR
200 deaths in an airliner, PLUS a few thousand in a crowded city centre?
Don't you love politicians?

[Alpine Flyer]

It's not that easy. How could you ever be sure that the "plus thousands" are actually endangered. You could as well shoot down an aircraft the moment the passengers have won back "control" and if you wait until destruction on the ground is obvious it is too late to shoot.

The matter is not that simple but the German ruling basically says that the government may not count lives against lives and then give the thumbs down to the side with the lower count.

(This specifically wouldn't apply to killing an aggressor in a hostage scenario, etc., it is just innocent lives against innocent lives that may not be weighed.)

BTW, German ALPA "VC" made a statement in court against the shooting down of airliners and hailed the verdict as a victory.

It is highly unlikely that at WTC scenario will be repeated as there are a lot more vulnerable targets around that are far less protected than aviation these days. We don't need trigger-happy politicians ordering lost-comm aircraft to be shot down.

(The decision was not taken by politicians but by judges.)

[ChristiaanJ]

Alpine Flyer,

I agree.
Trying to repeat the WTC scenario would be stupid.... there are better ways (from their point of view).... but then sometimes people ARE stupid.

But just maybe, if you saw an airliner squawking the hijack code, not answering any comm, and in a shallow dive heading for the centre of Jerusalem, maybe even you would put four Sidewinders up the tailpipes first, and ask questions afterwards?

[peeteechase]

If this had been JFK not TLV and American fighters/
Could be related but at about 1100GMT today (13th April) flying over central France heard a transmission on 121.5 a bit like this:
"Continental Airlines 7X7 at FL 370 on (easterly heading), XXX bearing from Marseilles XX miles with Mirage 2000 on your right wing do you read?"
This was repeated a few times (showing an easterly track from Marseille) then nothing heard, assumed it was a Radio Failure.
So I suspect the Israeli Fighters were probably the last defence . Were the French and others caught with their pantaloons down?:)
The report should make for interesting reading
ATB,
ptc

[rwethereyet]

Ladies & Gents,

To begin with,this is only an open observation on what has been voiced here and this is only a point of view so please do not take any offence to this posting.....
Having read all the comments, I can honestly say that everybody should take a deep breath and stop imagining worst case scenarios!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been to TLV many times,was very recently based there for a year,flew for a "national airline" and am well versed in their security procedures and I can honestly say that they won't "shoot" down any civilian aircraft until all emergency contingency procedures have been thoroughly exhausted!!!!
For those of you looking for "sensational" CNN headlines....well....get a life!!!!
Until you have been there,done that and got the T-shirt, I suggest that y'all start by educating yourselves on aviation matters in that part of the globe and obtain some kind of insight on what specific procedures dictate for this type of situation before "transmitting blind" and save everybody from any drama!!!
I'm sure that the CO crew did everything that was required of them and the last thing they would expect was to be blown out of the sky!!!!!! Give it a rest and start worrying about world peace for example!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)
Shalom,
RWTY :ok:

[Wiley]

I'm based in a part of the world that's marginally less tense than the TLV FIR, and if I had a beer for every time I've had to suggest to an FO that it would be a really good idea if he was to select his 121.5 RX p/b to on (and audible), I'd be a very drunk man.
Likewise, the number of times you're asked to contact some errant aircraft and Guard and he doesn't answer. I think some people in this profession have an amazing lack of imagination - although some less charitable might call it a lack of situational awareness.

[West Coast]

Its not meant to be funny, nor to entertain you. I believe should another (especially German) target be attacked by a hijacked aircraft that the ruling will be up for discussion at the highest levels.


I don't understand why many easily dismiss the thought of another airborne attack. 9/11 was very successful, if anything too successful. It may be harder to replicate on that scale but I believe I believe the terrorists still have it in their play book.

[AHRS]

The worse is yet to come mate!:}

[bomarc]

a mistake was made somewhere...tech problems with radio, wrong freq, pilots asleep.

let's see what happened...but it seems to me that the truth would be at hand already.


nothing against CAL, but they did land on a taxiway in KEWR. To think for a second that any pilot, at any airline , couldn't foul up a freq ....hmmmm

[MSP Aviation]

This wasn't a Huge deal. Every time one calls for a weather briefing in New York they are told to be familiar with fighter intercept procedures. Clearly the fact that intercept procedures were known by the crew saved lives.

As for the Germans, imagine what their guards would do at a middle-eastern embassy should they see a bus doing 120kph down a city street towards their gate. Maybe the passengers would retake control at the last minute and avert disaster! No, of course not, the guards would shoot. It's the same situation in the skies.

[vapilot2004]

Continental's comments and more on the incident near TLV:

BY RON MARSICO
Star-Ledger Staff
An Israeli official yesterday defended his country's decision to scramble military jets after a Continental flight from Newark to Tel Aviv did not contact air traffic controllers on approach, but he did not address a statement from an un named Israeli air force official that the plane was nearly shot down.

The Jerusalem Post reported that Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was alerted after the crew of Continental Flight 90, with 251 passengers aboard, failed to make required contact with controllers Wednesday. The newspaper cited a "senior air force officer" as the source.

"This was the closest we ever came to intercepting a civilian airplane," the air force source told the paper, referring to the possibility that the plane could have been destroyed.

David Saranga, the Israeli consul for media and public affairs in New York, said that sending up fighter jets to gauge potential threats in such cases "can be considered common procedure for any country," especially since 9/11.

"Naturally, we become very concerned when an incident such as this occurs," Saranga said, citing Israel's vulnerability. "Fortunately for everyone involved, the flight was able to land safely."

David Messing, a Continental spokesman, said the crew did not believe the plane was at risk of being shot down.

"The crew had clear instructions on what to do and did not feel threatened by the presence of the military aircraft," Messing said in an e-mail.

Messing said the situation "stemmed from a technical communication glitch, which is still being sorted out. Israeli aviation authorities will want to review all the communications and figure out the scenario that caused this."

Eventually, Messing said, the flight crew was able to speak with Israeli air controllers before landing.

The spokesman added that two other Continental flights have arrived in Tel Aviv without further problems since Wednesday's incident.

A spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration said his agency was not reviewing the matter.



All in a days work, then.

Did the Israelis know to contact CO's System Ops Center and get the flight dispatcher to send an ACARs message to the crew to come up on the appropriate frequency? This would have solved the problem in a few moments. This is done all of the time with US carriers and no interceptors are launched. US Part 121 carriers are required to have a separate comm system to be able to do this. It is routine in the case of lost comms.

ICAO rules only provide for 121.5 and/or visual communication if on-frequency radio contact is lost. Perhaps when satellite links are more commonly used by carrier Ops, the ICAO may reconsider.

As for the Germans, imagine what their guards would do at a middle-eastern embassy should they see a bus doing 120kph down a city street towards their gate. Maybe the passengers would retake control at the last minute and avert disaster! No, of course not, the guards would shoot.

Then there are those embassies that have a quick and rather large chunk of steel that denies entry no matter who's driving the bus. :cool:

[merlinxx]

Just ask how many are intercepted either live, precautionary or practice in Europian airspace daily/weekly.

[Stoic]

This was the closest we ever came to intercepting a civilian airplane," the air force source told the paper, referring to the possibility that the plane could have been destroyed.



Did not the Israelis shoot down a Libyan airliner some years ago?

Regards

S

[JJflyer]

I dont care what anyone says. In Middle East, especially Nicosia, Damascus, Beirut, Amman and Tel Aviv FIR's (add Ercan to that salad) you must follow the established procedures to the letter. Additionally monitor 121.5 and 123.45. keep your WX radar on etc.
There is no excuse total utter stupidity to be in "incommunicado" unless a total equipment failure.

JJ

[rwethereyet]

JJF,

You hit the nail on the head:D .....this should close the thread! Know where you are going and read the charts!!!!! End of story.:oh:
Cheers,
RWTY;)

[Ignition Override]

During the 9/11 nightmare, or the day after, a Korean widebody jet was almost destroyed because of radio confusion over or near Alaska.

Apparently at least one F-15 fighter climbed for an interception.

This happened to a Korean Air Lines flight in Soviet airspace many years ago (partly due to a military "ELINT" jet's proximity, and also to cover up a different mistake on the part of the Soviet Commander for the area) and everybody on board died.

Korean crews and passengers almost paid with their lives a SECOND time!:(

[JJflyer]

Actually Ignition Override. Soviets had shot down a KAL flight once before, a B707 that managed to land on a iced over lake. Have a look for details
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Flight_902
So this would have been the third time KAL suffers a shootdown.
JJ