Hotel fires and aircrew

[PPRuNe Dispatcher]

Due to the nature of the job aircrew spend more time in hotels than almost anyone else. I strongly suggest that if you haven't done so, you read the article "WARNING: HOTELS COULD BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH..." that is on our website. Follow this link :
Hotel fire safety (http://www.pprune.org/pub/tech/hotelfire.html)
If you want to redistribute the article then go ahead but please let me know as it is a copyrighted document.

---Mik
(Contact me via PM)

[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Dispatcher ]

[Busta Level]

Well worth a look. I checked the site out a few months ago, and started doing what it suggested. Last Thursday there was a real fire at the SAS Radisson in MAN, and being pre-armed with the knowledge of what I needed to do certainly helped! Although it was only a small fire (on the 9th floor!) it was pretty scary at 2.00am.....

[VFE]

I cannot understand the logic of some hotels to have so called 'burgular bars' fitted to the windows of rooms. I had the misfortune to be put in a hotel in Spain a few weeks ago and there were bars on my room window. My room was on the third floor and there was no way of getting into the room from the outside except with a ladder. Not the most inconspicious way of breaking into a hotel room is it? :rolleyes:
I asked to be moved to a room without bars.
It must be the case that these hotels want to reduce the risk of customers doing a filt in the night and not paying.
What's worse, the loss of a few quid or 75 dead people?

VFE.

PS: BTW, it was not an airline who put me in the above hotel.

[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: VFE ]

[Gantenbein]

I carried a copy of this article with me for a few years. Quite a few years ago… Of course, it is still very relevant, and very helpful. It has become second nature, since I first read it, to look for and open the emergency exit before going into my hotel room, and count the number of rooms separating me from it.

Still, something happened that I'm not proud of, but that will serve as a warning forever.

Having flown into Toronto from Europe on New Year's Eve, our crew didn't manage to stay up to celebrate the new year. So when the fun began, and the fire alarm went off, it didn't wake me up entirely. Somehow, I thought the TV was still on, and in the dark, I tried all sorts of buttons to turn it off. And went back to bed. And realised, slowly, that it was a fire alarm. And, overcome by fatigue, could not muster the willpower to leave the comfort of the bed again.

Obviously, that could have been the end.

The lesson appears to be that you need to be aware not only of the symptoms around you, but also of your own weaknesses…

gnothi seauton (know yourself)

[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: Gantenbein ]

[Dan Winterland]

All wise words. I had the misfortune to be staying in a three week hotel in Kuala Lumpur which caught fire after some workmen had set fire to an unfinished floor with a blowtorch. Those of us who chose to adjust to the time zone in the bar where warned by the sight of firemen running through the lobby with hoses. Most of those who chose to go to bed were woken up by firemen hammering on their doors - others woke up when we phoned them to say we were changing hotels! The one who went to the gym (!) the floor under the fire was warned by the smoke, went down 15 floors of fire exit to find the exit door locked. He kicked his way through. Outside, some of us were nearly hit by a pane of flying glass from the 18th floor.

Now when I check in, I always make sure I know where I'm going in the event of a fire.

[Lou Scannon]

This information should be included in every crewmembers training on joining a company. My bet is that globally we lose more employees every year in hotel fires than we do in aircraft fires.

[tonyryan]

For those of you that stay in the Aer Lingus owned (ex?) kip called the Copthorne at CDG, please realise that they have removed the handle to open the windows in most rooms. No fresh air,and more importantly, no ability to get out onto a roof just below etc.

[BobZyurUnkl]

Always worth thinking about when you check-in. I fellow I met never stays higher than the third floor (especially in Las Vegas, where they overnight frequently)
I also noticed one hotel that put exit signs on the floor as well as the ceiling. Great Idea.

[Bramble]

Copthorne CGD is a bit scary like that.We stay there.The bar is a kip too.None of our girls like it as they always get hit on so the lads have to drink as a group like the Hitters!!!!
However EI dumped all their non-airline assets in an attempt to make them more profitable! in the mid 90's

[Taildragger]

Good friend of mine lost her life in a Hotel fire at Cairo Heliopolis near the airport.
I think it was the Sheraton, and she was part of an exec 1-11 crew staying there.
She was trapped in her room by the fire, and when she was found she was overcome by smoke....not the actual fire.
Another F/O of a B707 Saudi based, got trapped in his house when it caught fire and again, it was smoke that got him. Other crew tried to throw breeze blocks through the window to release him and the bricks just bounced off the reinforced plastic windows, and after that all the guys unscrewed the window frames to allow a quick and easy exit if necessary. Scary. I personally was in Manila in the Sheraton during a richter 7.1 earthquake which collapsed the Hyatt in Bagio killing a lot of people, and when I tried to get out onto the balcony the door was locked and signposted "This door is locked for your safety" When I grapped my maglight which I always carry in my briefcase and ran into the corridor, all the emergency lights had failed and people could not find the emergency exits until I switched the flashlight on and we exited the hotel. Our Captain and F/O were on the 11th floor and had to make their way down the stairs with the hotel shaking.
Ever since all these incidents I request the lowest floor of the Hotel and check all the doors and the nearest exits and ALWAYS carry a flashlight in my briefcase where I can find it quickly. These are only my own personal experiences fellas, so multiply it with all your own and it's a dangerous world out there. I really urge you to check out the exits and at the first sign of trouble wet towels to put over your face to keep smoke off as long as possible, and check the balcony doors first thing.

[ 20 August 2001: Message edited by: Taildragger ]

[4 of 7]

The other day in Luton at the hotel our crew were staying in(smack in the middle next to the station) , workmen managed to set off the fire alarm at about 0845.

Hotel staff were not initially aware that it was not 'real' and 3 appliances arrived post haste.

Most of our crew slept through the alarm (we had flown all night) and no attempt was made to ensure guest safety. I followed the fire arrows to the nearest fire exit.

On the back of the door there was no caution against using lifts.

There were no directions to the Assembly Point when egressing through Fire Escapes, it was an absolute shambles.

Beware if you stay there! I think its the Thistle - bolted on to a multi-story carpark and next to the Arndale Centre. :(

[Jungle Strip]

There's nothing like being the only person in a big hotel to take a fire alarm seriously, trotting down six floors and finding yourself in a Houston carpark in your jammies, surrounded by guffawing hotel staff... Then having to do the Strut of Death back through the lobby. Thing is, the bells had been ringing for 10 minutes before the "This is a Drill for Staff Only" PA started up. But I was the only person who paid any attention. Am I paranoid, over-cautious, or just sensible?

[Top Loadie]

Definately sensible Jungle Strip. Note that the guffawing hotel staff... were already in the carpark when you got there. They may have known that it was a drill but in a real emergency the first place low-paid hotel staff head for is the door.
Remember, any Firefighter in the world worth his salt would rather investigate a small amount smoke you made a fuss over, then give the all-clear, than turn up at a hotel that was "going like a bastard" and have to risk their own lives rescuing hundreds of people from a labyrinth of hotel rooms.

I would rather look a wally in the car park, in my jammies, than being identified in the morgue in them!

We all know what it's like when we do fire and smoke training. In real life its ten times worse and you don't have a smoke hood...

[410]

Very good article. However, the one thing the Fire Captain did not mention was what to wear when making your escape.

I've been in a house fire, and the radiant heat when close to direct flame can be unbelievablly fierce. I'd say, wear everything non synthetic you can put on, especially sturdy leather, (not rubber!) shoes. Cover as much skin as possible, right dowm to wetting the hotel bathrobe, which is usually white,(which can be important), and putting it on over your clothes. Then put a wet towel over your head, as both a heat shield and a smoke filter, coving as much of yoiur face as possible.

I can vouch for the accuracy of his comment about there almost always being a small area of clear air very close to the floor. Slither on your stomach if necessary.

What also surprised me was the stratification of the heat. It was so hot at eye level in one the room I was in, my eyebrows and hair literally frizzled. Down on the floor in the very same area, the temperature was quite bearable, and even more importantly, the air breathable.