'Air scare as jet wheels burst'

[Tony Flynn]

The Sun's headline not mine I hasten to add.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007080474,00.html

[Dash-7 lover]

oooh we're all doooooomed! When are we gonna see it on Air Crash Investigations...? - see other threads

[DingerX]

Hyperbole as tabloid publishes story!

[visibility3miles]

that relates to this thread, right?


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251060&page=7 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251060&page=7)

[Ontariotech]

:{

ARGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!

What a load of crap? Who reads this dung? I certainly hope we do not chop down trees in some nice green forest to have stinky slop like this printed on it?

"It climbed up sharply......to avoid crashing....." er...it did a go-around? a missed approach? an Overshoot? no....WAIT......IT CLIMBED SHARPLEY LIKE A ROCKET FROM A LAUNCH PAD TO AVOID THE CATYLCLISMIC COLLISSSION THAT WAS INEVITABLE DUE TO THE PRESSURIZED TUBES OF AIR DISINTERGRATING IN A GREAT BALL OF FLAME, SMOKE AND BITS, REDERING THE STRICKEN CRAFT UNCONTROLLABLE ON THE CONCRETE SURFACE, AND LEAVING IT TO RESORT TO THE EMERGENCY MANUAL SYSTEM AND MAKING THE SKY PILOT A HERO TO THE MANY THOUSANDS OF CITIZENS HE SAVED ON THAT GLORIOUS DAY OF FREEDOM, AND HEROISM"



Think I could apply for a job as a sun reporter??????:}

[llondel]

No, you use too many long words to be a Sun reporter

[Felix Saddler]

No you just sound like a prick.

[Ultralights]

not the thronomister water folder failure again!:}

[Sleeve Wing]

Language, language, Felix !

Ontariotech is right to vent his sarcasm, albeit a little extreme.

The professionals on this (our) forum are getting a little peeved at some of the overdramatic rubbish which is regularly presented as news in the gutter press, particularly by an obviously-uninformed female junior.

00.03 ??? Shouldn't you be in bed, ready to study again tomorrow......and leave the flying business to the professional guys who have to cope with whatever is thrown at us, day after long day ?

Sleeve.

[FougaMagister]

Wow! Now THAT was a close one :rolleyes: I guess some (most?) of the passengers will testify (no doubt with the help of a juicy backhander from The Sun :yuk: ) to have seen their life flash in front of their eyes :rolleyes: "It was a really narrow miss"... how would he know? What was the actual minimum separation?

Cheers :cool:

[Cyrano]

Alas, it's not just the Sun. Bloomberg, that supposedly sober provider of financial news, is now seemingly going into the ASI calibration business:
The plane was moving more quickly than normal as it landed
and hit the ground hard, according to a Bloomberg reporter who
was aboard. Passengers felt at least one tire blow, and the plane
veered to the left and then the right before coming to a halt
about 10 yards (10 meters) short of the landing lights at the end
of the runway and 200 yards from the water of the docks, he said.
At least the article didn't mention how many yards away the nearest primary school/hospital was.

[llondel]

How close to the end of the runway does a normal landing take an aircraft? I know LCY is on the short side and is used by specific types, so one would expect it to be a lot closer than using those types on a longer runway. Given the layout at LCY, I assume it is necessary to go to the end at the Eastern side just to turn around.

Good old media, doing a great job with the molehills.

[YesTAM]

With the greatest of respect to all of you professional pilots, I suggest you are missing one blindingly obvious trueism that is obviouslt not taught at professional pilots school:

perceptions equal reality!

It matters not that your hard landing/ barrel roll/ whatever is perfectly safe/ within company SOP's/ regulations whatever. if you continue to scare the bejesus out of your customers, no matter how ignorant and uninformed they are, you will ultimately work your self out of a job.

As a simple PPl today i watched a circling NDB approach. Could i tell the difference between this and a cowboy approach? No! Until I asked.

For Christ sake, if you want to continue in your profession, give your customers a little respect.

[nitro rig driver]

yestam

Maybe reading wasn't one of your better skills

the criticism is aimed at the :mad: press


not the customers

[Squealing Pig]

1199m = 1 mile ? must be true, great I,m gonna use that factor of 1.34 to impress all the girls in future. Oh and note to self,stay away from those manual brakes even if they are the only ones I have.
What quality !
Later
SP

PS 10,000 pax a day - ****!

[FougaMagister]

YesTAM - "Perceptions equal reality" - not in commercial aviation they don't! Accident/Incident investigation is all about facts; that's what the AAIB, NTSB, BEA etc are for.

Most posters here do not mind passengers relating their experiences to the press; what we object to is the press spicing it all up with some juicy headlines, end-of-the-world (but details-less) testimonies and simplistic drawings - as to explain where the tyres are on an aircraft :rolleyes:

Since the BAe 146 series has no reverse thrust, in case of autobrake failure, I would indeed expect the PF to use (heavy) manual braking!

Cheers :cool:

[WHBM]

Given the layout at LCY, I assume it is necessary to go to the end at the Eastern side just to turn around.
No, you can turn around within the length of the runway. Happens all the time otherwise LCY couldn't keep the movement rate up when on easterlies.

[llondel]

Thanks for that - I've seen runway U-turns at other airports involving A320/B737 but I've never been to LCY so don't know the width with regard to the aircraft that use it.

[SLFguy]

There is so much whinging on this site about journo this and journo that, (and by the way it's akin to footballers complaining to the ref - it will achieve nothing), that I'm begining to suspect theat some journo's write up a story with even more shock/horror wording than normal JUST so they can log on here for a giggle at you lot wetting your knickers!
You can't do anything about it so why not give up on all the hand wringing?

[fred peck]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I remember, the 146 does not have autobrake.

[wee one]

YESTAM is correct. What is a normal maneuvere to us ie 30' bank is a very steep turn to the masses.
This is why there are threads on here smarmily stating how they use patronising terms for turbulence, IE lumps or bumps, during pa's.
You cant have it both ways.
Papers like the Sun project perception and have more influence than a bunch of intolerant sanctimonious pilots.
It is annoying but you must appreciate that despite years of air travel , no aspect of the physics of flying is taught in the national curiculum. Hence the ignorance and the acceptance of laymans interpretations. IE air pockets, pulled up sharpley, dropped from the sky. To the average punter a stall is something your car engine does. Anything else is a crash.
If you cant rise above itdo one of two things. Ignore it or educate people without patronising them , slagging them off or getting on your middleclass high horse.. Its not their fault.
It may come as a shock but if some of you were half as good as you thought you were youd be brilliant.
Dont forget you were not born with a knowledge of flying .(in many cases)...Daddy bought it for you.

[Chuffer Chadley]

Wee one-

Nice rant. Which pretty much totally misses the point.

Expressions such as 'schreeched to a halt by the water's edge' and 'had to pull sharply back up into the sky' are at best mislaeding sensationalism, and at worst simple lies.

Nobody is suggesting that The Sun (gawd bless it) should be using technical language, but this sort of reporting is lazy, unhelpful and untruthful. It does shift newspapers, though.

Further, the graphic is wildly inaccurate, and the comment suggesting the go-around was a 'really narrow miss' is also untrue.

I hope that this clarifies the complaint that is made here by other forum users.

CC

PS: My Daddy didn't pay for my knowledge of flying.

[Ye Olde Pilot]

Interesting that Tony Flynn reads the Sun.

I thought it only had pictures:)

Tony...if you want some interesting aviation head for Asia. Adam Air will give you a thrill:}

[glhcarl]

I don't know if the Bae 146 has autobrakes, but it should at least have anti-skid, which is probably what failed.

[begtodiffer]

You are correct in that the Bae 146 does not have autobraking. The system is made up of yellow and green hydraulics which are separate and redundant to one another. These two systems are backed up by emergency manual brakes, which when used gives raw braking action with no antiskid which would result in burst tires. Outside of the fact that not only were the tires all burst and the brakes welded on the aircraft from the use of emergency brakes. The fact is when all four tires are burst the aircraft is too low and a jack cannot be placed underneat and a crane is therefore required to lift and remove it.

[VORDME2]

The 146 has carbon brakes,and those does'nt weld like the steel brakes.There is also brake fans.If you brake hard temp can go very high....

[WHBM]

Just for those who think these standards of journalism are unique to aviation stories, you only have to look at this weekend's reporting of the Virgin Trains railway accident in the North of England. Repeatedly described in the media was how the train driver, after the high speed derailment, "heroically stayed at the controls to steer the train to safety". Now you don't have to be from a railway background to know that the steering control a train driver has, whether it is derailed or not, is precisely zero. Another one from the "narrowly missed a school" school of journalism.

[PICTUREPERFECT]

Thats prob correct that they are carbon, but if there is enough heat something metal is bound to stick and brake fans ain't there to cool things down when u engage emergency brakes. If the systems are redundant is it common for both to fail on 146? Did they fail any history of this on 146?

[nitro rig driver]

Begtodiffer
and i do

Yes you can lift an a/c with all tyres flat or burst....
you use a jack called an alligator instead of the normal rhino one
has a much lower lifting point though there are not many around
I'll grant you
we used to have one for just that purpose and was only used once by the then dan-air at lgw on one of their 146's that did much the same thing.
What happened to it after the airline bust i don't know
like this
http://www.malabar.com/recvy/65L45.html

[Chuffer Chadley]

Shortly before (about 30 mins) the aircraft began its journey back down the runway to the Jet Centre, I watched a regulation fork-lift truck shamble off towards the 28 threshold.

Perhaps they used that? :}

Sorry.

CC

[begtodiffer]

Maybe ur companies alligator wasn't available and your rhino wasn't enough to do the job, therefore crane was used or maybe that good old regulation fork lift.

[YesTAM]

I would like to suggest that in days gone by (probably when pilots were not so busy) the Captain would give, not a running commentary, but a few words about what was happening, about to happen, what the pax were about to expereince etc. In my opinion the press can't get much leverage with pax if the Captain has informed the passengers about what has happened and they leave with slightly more knowledge of Aviation then when they boarded.

[potatowings]

What a load of rubbish.

I saw it happen and it wasn't that dramatic.

[theamrad]

"heroically stayed at the controls to steer the train to safety".


Thank-you so much WHBM - I'm so glad I didn't have to be the first to mention it - I heard it first on SKY news - The SUN of the the TV news world IMHO. I really don't wish to demean the train driver involved, who I have no reason to think is anything but a sterling individual. But how in the media's eyes is he a hero: train hurtling down the tracks and derailment - what :mad:ing choice did he have but to stay at his controls???

"Steering a :mad:ing train" - what next from the enlightened?