Life after EK

[CaptainProp]

...and pilots are quitting and starting over a job everywhere in the world. Just have a close look at the european airlines. 10 leave - 15 new will come. That`s it....

One would think so....BUT, 10 will leave the company that is not offering a good enough deal (when there are lots of options out there, like now!), and 15 will go to the company that IS offering a good deal!
I think this is very much true if you are looking for rated, qualified crew. ie jet rated with 3-4000 hrs + experience.....ANY company will be able to get cadets and low hour, self sponsored pilots, regardless of what kind of deal they are offering...Hell, just look at us in the big orange world! However, there are tons of short haul jobs available in Europe at the moment, so we are even struggling to attract those!!

At the moment it looks like (not that I have all the info on EK, faaar from) people are getting pushed around a bit too much and this info is slowly getting around to all of us outside EK and people get more and more careful when taking the decision to got to the sand pit to "make the big cash and live in the sun"....

What puzzles me is that, there is enough money around in EK to attract the right people, in the right amounts to run whatever operation they would like.... In Europe it is not quite the same situation and the companys are struggling to make any profits at all....

[shakealeg]

"in Europe carriers fail to make profits"

British Airways announced a pre-tax profit of £620 million for the year to March 31, 2006 (2005: £513 million profit). The pre-tax profit for the fourth quarter was £91 million (2005: £6 million loss). Operating profit for the year was £705 million (2005: £556 million profit) and £93 million for the quarter (2005: £46 million profit).

I think Lufty is similar and so on and so on.

[CaptainProp]

You mention two companies where that is correct...What about SAS, Iberia, Alitalia.....And in the states - American, Delta, NW, United etc etc....just read that two of them agreed to new, more, pay cuts....
So, my question remains...Why are they not just paying the right people to do the job...?

[Cyberbird]

It wasn't the Wright Brothers that flew first, it was the Wong Brothers and they are from Brisbane!

...well -that might -or might well not - be true forthe first ENGINE powered flight;

however,the merit fort he first UNPOWERDED gliding flight plus writing a book about the theory offlying goes definitively to the German OTTO LILIENTHAL in Berlin in the early 1880 ies-
well before the Wright brothers did start building their plane ...
Actually, they'd been shocked by the deadly accident of Lilienthal in his flying machine, and tried to learn from his deadly mistake -
and they did also have a translation of his Book of Theory of Flying (Der Vogelflug als Grundlage der Fliegekunst in Original German from 1889)

[White Knight]

Cyberbird - I think that one went a bit over your head there;) ;)

[ennui]

On November 12, 1894, Lawrence Hargrave, the Australian inventor of the box kite, linked four of his kites together, added a sling seat, and flew 16 feet. By demonstrating to a sceptical public that it was possible to build a safe and stable flying machine, Hargrave opened the door to other inventors and pioneers. The Hargrave-designed box kite, with its improved lift-to-drag ratio, was to provide the theoretical wing model that allowed the development of the first generation of European (and American) airplanes.
In the 1890s a small number of inventive technologists were working to translate infant aviation theory into airplanes. Leading the race was Hargrave, a quintessential nineteenth-century gentleman scientist of independent means. A gifted explorer, astronomer, amateur historian, and practical inventor, Hargrave devoted most of his life to constructing a machine that would fly. He believed passionately in open communication within the scientific community and would not patent his inventions. Instead, he scrupulously published the results of his experiments.
The first successful aircraft incorporated three crucial aeronautical concepts developed by Hargrave: the cellular box-kite wing, the curved wing surface, and the thick leading wing edge (aerofoil). The Wright brothers had access to Hargrave's work through the aviation annuals published by James Means, and Octave Chanute's Progress in Flying Machines. Chanute, who corresponded with the Wright brothers, devoted a section of his book to Hargrave's experiments. But the Wright brothers, constrained by politics and patent problems of their time, admitted no influences.
The direct line of Hargrave's influence on the evolution of flying is more discernible in Europe. The French (who thought that France was the cradle of aviation) freely acknowledged Hargrave's influence: Alberto Santos-Dumont was the first European to fly a heavier-than-air machine constructed of Hargrave box kites in 1906. When Gabriel Voisin built the first commercially available aircraft, based on the stable lifting surfaces of Hargrave's box kites, he called them "Hargraves."
In 1889 Hargrave revolutionised engine technology by inventing the radial rotary engine, which reappeared (unacknowledged) in modified form in 1908 as the French Gnome engine. Although as early as 1892 Hargrave had voiced his opposition to the idea of the "connection of the flying machine with dynamite missiles," the rotating radial engine was extensively used in military aircraft until it was superseded by new engine technologies many years later.
Hargrave's concern for the peaceful promulgation of knowledge was evidenced in his concern for the safe placement of his working models in an environment open to the public. The only museum that would meet his terms was the Deutsches Technological Museum in Munich. It is ironic that most of Hargrave's 176 working models were destroyed in the Allied aerial bombardment of Germany during World War II. The 25 surviving models were restored in the 1960s to Sydney, Australia's Powerhouse Museum, which is staging an exhibition to mark the centennial of Hargrave's first flight.
Octave Chanute wrote in 1893 that "If there be one man more than another who deserves to succeed in flying, that man is Mister Lawrence Hargrave of Sydney." But Hargrave never did solve the power-to-weight ratio problem. His 1902 design was put to the test in 1992 when students at the University of Sydney rebuilt his aircraft from the original blueprint, replacing Hargrave's power plant with a modern one. ...It flew.
Compton's Encyclopedia Web Link - Electronic Library
© 1995 Omni Publications International Ltd.
Webb, Janeen; Dann, Jack, Lawrence Hargrave: unheralded aeroplane engineer.., Vol.17, Omni, 01-01-1995, pp 24(1).

[4HolerPoler]

Thread closed - way off topic.

4HP

[camelshagger]

Along with many others, I'm trying to complete my termination with EK and get as far away from the place as soon as possible. As expected, EK are not very cooperative with the process. Any advice from recent terminees would be appreciated.
One find so far is not to use Freightworks (owned by EK), as they will rip you off on the port-to-door segment (EK repatriation only covers door-to-port). Any of the other freight companies will charge a lot less overall.
Also make sure you find out what the accommodation department are going to try to charge you before you leave - once you're out of the country they will charge as they please!
Leaving EK is harder than joining - good luck!

[Stormy Petrel]

What did you expect shag? You have been used S****ed for the use of a better expression. Used and thrown away. This is what we shall all have, despite years of honourable service. Wecome, or should I say ~ farewell the the Middle East.

Good luck :D

[ruserious]

Makes sense, their last opportunity to grab back every dirham they can from you. Good luck, let us know who you do get a good deal from, for future reference, when I pull the pin :hmm:

[exdxb]

G'day gents,
I retired from EK DXB about a year ago and got a quote from 3 of the companies recommended by EK for a 40ft container DXB YVR.
Freightworks actually wasn't too bad, and a several thousand dirhams lower than the highest bidder.
However got an even better quote from the Kuene & Nagel (sp?) reps in DXB (First Gulf shipping). They were trying to break in to some of the EK repatriation biz. They did an excellent job for me and were easy to work with.
If you want to try them for a quote, my contact was Glen Miranda (his daughter works for EK in Skywards).
Good luck

[Desert Nomad]

Try a bunch called Ahmed Saleh. The name doesn't sound much but they are excellent. I know a few people who have repatriated using them and all have said they were excellent.

Good luck

[Rabbitwear]

Dont forget to take out a big fat personal loan before you quit...............

[Scooter Rassmussin]

I left nearly a year ago, Im so happy now , I love going for walks where it is green and cool good people , I was sure wasting my time in the middle east.
I sold most of my stuff it was quite easy many people want second-hand stuff so it was cheaper to sell and start again than take a container load of **** home that was worth less than the container.
Now I have a job that pays well Im slowly re-equipping with good stuff and the government is paying for my kids schooling.
I felt like i just got outta prison when i left EK and Dubai , im sure ill live an extra 10 years longer now.
Good luck to those smart enough to see the light.....

[Arnie Dan Otherdump]

.... recently left the sandpit after a huge chunk of my working life, used Scotpack and was more than happy with their services, they did a great job of looking after me ( us ) not only ex DXB but settling in at our new place. PM me for details

..Glad to be free of the place !

[Quod Boy]

Frightworks didnt even visit but came in competitive.Decided on Allied Pickfords due to rep who understood and delivered on cost and dates.

Whether it goes OK the other end remains to be seen this end good so far.


Leaving EK is almost as convoluted as joining Ive had lots more pictures and passport copies done in anticipation.

Exit interview is self discovery,the lady is charming TCAS,Ed etc nowhere to be seen,either on summer leave or "unavailable" but everything is fine and there is no problem with manpower or Flt Ops,pilots are leaving because they miss home and their families.

So there you have it.

The pub awaits.QB

[EK Pilot]

If you leave Emirates with debts what is the procedure? The provident fund that I have covers it, but I understand that is not paid out until two months after you leave??? So what do you do??? :confused:

[Scooter Rassmussin]

You need a fat personal loan from one of the ripoff local banks for $250k get an early ticket before you resign to go back home , then bugger off before you have to hand in your passport that way youll be rewarded for all the heartache they caused you and your last salary can go to paying some debt, who cares.
And chances are youll never go back there i mean why would you...........
If you want to be more devious you can get 3 or 4 of these personal loans from different banks at the same time using copies of the same letter from EK and leave with 1 million or so ........................

[MR8]

Scooter..

So in about a few years from now, you're sitting in that nice business class towards the Seychelles for a well deserved holiday, when suddenly for some reason the Captain announces on the PA that you won't be able to get to SEZ, but no worries... you will have a free night in the New York of the Middle East. Landing in Dubai will be in about 45 minutes.. And that's where you start sweating really hard!!!

No, seriously, if leaving, you better do it the official way. Not only will you be able to go places without looking over your shoulder all the time, but also, you won't make life harder for the colleagues you leave behind.

MR8

[Ray Darr]

Easy solution to that, mate. If you DID end up in DXB sometime later, just skip the hotel and just spend the night in the Transit area, quaffing "samples" at that good Irish Pub!!

:p :ok:

[VONKLUFFEN]

...you go with lots of money, live happy ever after and so do many more like you , stealing money. And the decent pilots left behind will pay the moral consequences of your acts. Great , well done ! You are leaving EK because they "steal" from you. Wow, now who is the bad guy here?
EK or you? Think a bit more and dont be so selfish...

[EK Pilot]

I want to repay the debts! Why don't people listen or read the posts. BUT I do not have the cash to do it, but I do have the money (about US$40,000) in the provident fund which I hope to use. There are no other available sources to get the money. What I need is to get the provident fund first, but cannot do that. So, sensible answers to a moral and upstanding pilot please.

[pintofstella]

EKPILOT, yes you can use your prov fund, the company will dircet it where it needs to go to settle all your outstanding debts b4 you get whats left and your final release. good job in leaving, wish you all the best. Plenty more behind you. Cheers

[VONKLUFFEN]

the post was met to those who give ideas to screw others... I say again NOT u EK. Good luck

[Pragmatic]

:ok: HI Guys and Girls Im new to this forum but since I will be leaving the sandpit and EK soon.:{ Thought Id join so I can add my two cents worth as to my reasons for going back to reality.:ugh:
Watch this space

[boeing-man]

why wait till leaving then speak up?? A little too late or perhaps you have another reason.....:oh:

[Zomp]

You talk but I hear nothing you must be EK management

[Fart Master]

Chill with the font size dude:sad:

[Pragmatic]

Sorry Guys just dont have the time or the energy at the moment to explain, will do so in due course.
Im certainly not EK management have more self respect than to be part of that team, Im a Pilot not a Politician.
Also its easier to join this outfit than to leave, you will all find out when your turn comes no doubt.
After briefly reading TCAS latest rantings bout fuel prices and monitoring, And "dont be defensive if you get a call from management to explain your extra fuel reasons" I really feel vindicated in my decision to leave, HAPPY DAYS GUYS:=

[djskypimp]

Latest rantings from "the management"

In your mail box now,this months news letters including fleet facts,fuel efficiency prog and the SLR ops to N.Y

Read and enjoy!!:ugh:

[ekpilot]

Log into the portal, go to rosters, type into the duty code field RG. Select September 30th, check Capts and FOs and read the names on the extensive list of those leaving at the end of September alone. Not that TCAS will give a sh!t, but I'll be joining their ranks soon! :}

[Yossarian]

Yeah, yeah! Go boys! Still not sure why Pragmatic has to shout before going so quiet though.

[ratpoison]

Yes EkPilot, and some great lads on the list as well. It will be sad to see most of them go as we all got a bloody good laugh from them.
Good luck gents, you have certainly made a fine move. Some great trips and a belly full of laughs over the years.

Rat

[UNOME]

Where are they off too?

[Mack Tuck]

I talked to one of the recently departed 10+ year (Training) Captains who said not one person rang him from Flight Ops Management to discuss reasons why he was leaving or say good luck or even thanks for the past 10 years of your life.
Quite frankly I find it disgusting that a company can have that little regard for its experienced employees.
Clearly the dirham rules and his replacement will cost the company less than him.:yuk:

[145qrh]

I too am shocked and surprised....

Surprised that you are surprised at EK's total and completed lack of respect for any of there employees..:=

The dollar, dirham ,pound ,sheckel ,mexican jumping bean, in fact any form of currency means more to our ar....sorry managers ..

Some day accountants will learn that there is more to running a company than the balance sheet...

[Fart Master]

Mack tuck, it's the eternal mistake we all make of thinking that the people upstairs give a s**t, they don't, as long as they are ok the thousands of us below can go you know where:suspect: :suspect:

[LHR Rain]

Does anyone at EK NOT have their applications out to other airlines? With so many very experienced trainers and line guys leaving that has to tell the group something and I don't think it is all about the falling dollar. Good luck to all that has submitted their retirement papers.

[kiwi_r4]

Mack Tuck, you just love to moan don't you. You poor little soul.

If someone in EK manangement had picked up the phone and rang your friend who has since departed to say "thank you and best of luck" I'm sure you would find a fault ie the person making the phone call wasn't high enough on the management ladder, or if a gift was forthcoming you would complain that it was cheap and tacky. What I'm trying to convey here is that you're a "bloody moaner". You must be an absolute joy to fly with.

[Mack Tuck]

Hello wee man.
How's your little life in your little 737.
Are you bored?
Search the threads as there is one here somewhere about re-applying to EK after missing out.
Incidentally, most of the threads and posters here in the ME involve a fair amount of moaning so if you don't like reading it how about staying Down Under.

[kiwi_r4]

Hi Mack Tuck, Thank you for your reply!

Life is ticking along pretty good. Went snow skiing at Mt Hutt with the children last Friday. On Saturday hired a 182 and took the family flying over the main divide to the West Coast for a couple of days. How can life be boring? back to work tomorrow. For interest sake, what do you do during your days off? Contact VN or other Asain carriers for DEC jobs by any chance?

Truth be known Mack, I think you're envious. Is the 777 that big a deal?

Good luck.

Ps. I have never applied to EK.

[ekpilot]

Hi Kiwi, I'm sorry to hijack the argument but could not resist. To answer for Mack Tuck, the 777 is no big deal. In fact no aircraft I have flown (9 commercial jet types) is any big deal after 3 months. But skiing with the family and flying a 182 over your beautiful country is a big deal and for the record, I am jealous! You seem to have your life sorted mate, don't ruin it by coming here!

[mensaboy]

I highly doubt Kiwi has his life sorted. He periodically writes a baseless condemnation or childish insult directed at anyone who shows any displeasure with EK. He says that Mack must a real joy to fly with, sarcastically implying the contrary. This is based on nothing at all, except that he doesn't like Macks level of frustration with EK. This is clearly an example of an individual who has no knowledge about the atmosphere of discontent at EK and what is causing it. I really have to wonder why Kiwi persists in taking shots at EK pilots when it should have no relevance to his life. If he had anything of consequence to say, anything at all based on an insight into conditions at EK, then it would be just a case of individuals disagreeing. Clearly Kiwi has some other agenda or perhaps he just likes to stir the pot.
He reminds me of the Republicans who decree that anyone not supporting the war in Iraq..... are not patriotic americans. Its analogous to anyone not totally supportive of EK's policies. Either that or he is a person of similar character attributes as BM/Tartan guy.
I'm not going to get into another round of pointing out the stupidity of his posts, but I do want to stress that he is well known for making assumptions and reaching conclusions about others based on nothing of substance.

[kiwi_r4]

Mensaboy (TH)

Are you a conspiracy theorist after hours by any chance?

Look, Mensaboy, you need to spend less time reading novels and get out more to smell the roses! If I made no sense at all you would ignore me; which you don’t.

That was pretty sharp of you to pick up on my sarcasm regarding Mack. Good on you!!

Mack is a big boy and can defend himself rather than have his henchman (you mensa) come by and make a hash of it.

Off to bed, good night.

[Marooned]

Whilst waiting for Pragmatics reasons for leaving I can't help but comment on Kiwis posts:

I'm no henchman but perhaps you, kiwi, could explain for credibility reasons more than anything else why this forum (EK and the Middle East) has such an interest for you?

I don't understand your arguments or issues with anyone on this particular forum if it doesn't involve you in any way at all...

It's a serious question; What are your motivations here?

[Payscale]

BITCH fight on a pilots forum....what is the world coming to! :uhoh:

[bushbolox]

Anyway......... back tot he topic .Why is this guy leaving?

[chinny]

:cool: dont think any 1 gives a s*#t any more-reminds me of an old girl friend(which is why old) just says anything that comes out of their mouth with out any brain cells involved at all.
Pathetic:ooh: go bug your kids or something.:ok:

cc
VTSP

[kiwi_r4]

Hi there,

In a hurry but best to reply;

Mutley Crew
Is that all you've got.

Marooned
With a handle like "Marooned" you are probably another poor little soul who cries himself to sleep at night. To answer your serious question; I have asked serious questions in the past but the problem is when logic is applied, some disgruntled EK pilots dissappear from pprune. Look into my history and you'll find some of us are still waiting for a reply from Toad Hall.

Chinny
Your post doesn't make much sense. You're either pissed or just plain thick.

Enjoy your day.

Kiwi.

[readytocopy]

Guys there was another posting I remember when everyone was ignoring a paticular person. Eventually he/she got so frustrated that no one was listening and he/she stopped posting on that perticular topic...so just ignor kiwi....unless he is bringing some truth out.....then you should come to terms with your situation. But I got to tell you its kind of fun.

[bus canuck]

I don't think this idiot has any motivations. Idiots don't need motivations. Idiots often make their idiotic posts for no reason at all. Not that I'd know because that idiot is now enjoying the only position on my Ignore List so I don't even notice his idiotic posts anymore!

15 years of surfing I've never put anyone in an "ignore" list..until now. (I didn't even shut down "Bound for Dubai!")


What a dickless waste of cyberspace.:yuk:

[kiwi_r4]

MC and BC

3000 views in less than 36 hrs. I have no doubt you'll keep on reading.

It's a shame Mutley, your last post has been your best humour yet!

On the subject of the original thread, pragmatic, why don't you enlighten us with your situation. You have a fairly keen audience.

[fractional]

HI Guys and Girls Im new to this forum but since I will be leaving the sandpit and EK soon. Thought Id join so I can add my two cents worth as to my reasons for going back to reality.
Watch this space
Will Explain when Ive time
Sorry Guys just dont have the time or the energy at the moment to explain, will do so in due course.
Im certainly not EK management have more self respect than to be part of that team, Im a Pilot not a Politician.
Also its easier to join this outfit than to leave, you will all find out when your turn comes no doubt.
After briefly reading TCAS latest rantings bout fuel prices and monitoring, And "dont be defensive if you get a call from management to explain your extra fuel reasons" I really feel vindicated in my decision to leave, HAPPY DAYS GUYS
Pragmatic, we are all waiting for your debrief on EK. It would be very appreciated to hear from you. Tks.

[Quod Boy]

Well guys,after 11 yrs Im leaving.
I couldnt find anyone to resign to on the day then a secretary pointed me to Mr Eds office where he politely listened but told me that attrition was well in limilts of 5% and that the market was buoyant and people missed home thats why they left.
Mr Ed asked me to write my comments/suggestions down when I suggested that my only letter ever written to AS of 2years ago remained unanswered,he assured me he would reply.I even believed him. .I duly did this some 2-3 months ago.no reply to date.
Exit interview,pleasant enough but once again "no problem" plenty of applicants and "everythings just fine".
In total I ve had one letter from LL which was a resume of my time and a few kind words.Thats it.Hes a decent man.
Leaving is OK if you line your ducks up in a row before hand,all the clerks and office people charming,but DXB traffic will mean a min of 2-3 days driving getting signed out.Clearance letters from bank/etisalat time consuming.Passport is biggest problem they had mine 5 plus days avoid weekendsto depart.Perhaps I will get my passport at the airport with a reply to my letter,a gold watch,signed photo,handshake etc prior to departure?? Perhaps AS himself may turn up to shake my hand?
For those who know me,it was a pleasure professionally and socially..Its a small world out there,take it easy and fly safely.No visuals or handflying though fellas OK..The most worrying aspect is the total denial within Flt Ops yet saying cheerio to some of the best people in the business at the CBC these last couple of months.What a total mess AAR & AS have got themselves into yet they have superb resources and many talented pilots from around the world.It is unbelievable.
Who will eventually tell the Emperor he has no clothes?
The pub awaits in cooler climes.Cheers to all professional ppruners,QB

[fractional]

Good luck Quod Boy! It would be nice to hear from you and all ex-Middle East PPRuNers after they settle (or resettle) in their new lives.:)

[TangoUniform]

Just a couple of observastions. Who joins here with the aspect of staying for a whole career-20 plus years? So why is it surprising that many with time in country are leaving after 10 years or so? Folks miss their roots.

And if you think it is just EK that doesn't give a s***t when experienced pilots leave, better look around. We are a number boys, filling a slot. If planes reach destinations with little or no apparant issues, then we have a great bunch of qualified pilots. And having been here just a short time, I am very very impressed with the professionalism and expertice of the pilots I have run into. And that's why it works. When I left my big carrier after 20+ years, did any one call me, did I get any handshakes? Hell no. I did get a nice shiney plaque in the mail about 4 months later.

So fellows, don't lament on what EK has become. It is now a big carrier like all carriers with the same bean counters, whannabees, etc. probably running it. Or not even big carriers, just big corporations. :ugh:

Life in the big city......
TU:ok:

[dunerider]

All the best QB.I always enjoy reading your posts.Sad to see you leave.
Gee TangoUniform fantastic insight.I just love you DEC's with all your wisdom.
You are just like the new Jumeira Janes I see at Choithrams abusing the checkout staff about why they have run out of Orio's.Please enlighten us all with some more of your pearls of wisdom.

[ironbutt57]

It's a bit disappointing to see colleagues leaving here and going down to Dubai, then read so many are bailing from down there as well...the raionale here, is better schooling and housing coverage..little if no out of pocket at EK as opposed to GF, but I fear the money "saved" by not going so much our of pocket for schooling and housing, will for sure find it's way back into the UAE economy, as opposed to the offshore account...good luck to all those who venture forth...hope it's not an "out of the skillet into the fire" scenario :ok:

[TangoUniform]

Gee TangoUniform fantastic insight.I just love you DEC's with all your wisdom.
You are just like the new Jumeira Janes I see at Choithrams abusing the checkout staff about why they have run out of Orio's.Please enlighten us all with some more of your pearls of wisdom.

Geez DR,
It's not pearls of wisdom, not anything other than observations of what seems to be the culture at all large corporations around the world. Man some raw nerves here, and trying very hard to step lightly.

Curious though, DR and others, how many see this as a 20 plus year career, being an expat?

And how am I like the JJs abusing the staff?
TU:confused:

[Yossarian]

Tango, I think your observation is spot on, but then again, that is just my opinion and as the saying goes.....

I initially was only looking at ten years in the sand, but subject to big global shifts have adjusted that upwards. Twenty years? Sure, if nothing that suits me better doesn't come along in the meantime. ;)

[kingpost]

QB


Who will eventually tell the Emperor he has no clothes?


The above is so true just like the statement of how AAR & AS are running Ek into the ground - so sad to see when they have great resources available to them.

Only when the dust flies high will this problem be addressed, until then do not hold your breath.

Good luck for the future.

[jethrotull]

In short there will be parity between Flight deck and Cabin with Crew and PAX from 3rd world.

[fractional]

In short there will be parity between Flight deck and Cabin with Crew and PAX from 3rd world
I wouldn’t say the same. It might be misunderstood... despite acknowledging your message.
This same trend is happening across the world and for some time now. What's not good for many is excellent for many others and the undesirable fix is to "take it or leave it". I just hope safety is an unforgettable word...:hmm: This face means everything...
I felt it myself. Fortunately, I have been always one step ahead. I know many others haven't had the same luck. Where I am isn't a paradise (where is it?) but it's better. Most of decisions made have its practical objective and the dislikes forgotten after a good BBQ and chat.
Keep discovering until you find better!...:sad:

[Mack Tuck]

I note 3 more good bastards finish up in October; all senior Captains. When will it end?:ugh:

[ratpoison]

When will it end?
It wont. Once the inertia of the boys leaving gets a go on, it will be something very hard to stop.

[arob]

Guys:

The idea of this forum is to give useful, and educated information to people contemplating to join EK, EY etc, however I see it is used in a way that it will point anyone with a little bit of common sense as far away from the dessert as possible. So here is my 2 cents worth of advice:

If you are unhappy, it is very simple..... Leave! Don't tell me you are just waiting for better opportunities, because right now a lot of Airlines are hiring, so no excuses there.

As long as there is an excess of fairly qualified pilots out there, the working conditions will not get any better for you, or anyone else for that matter.

Last, as an Expat, you are a guest worker, just like all the third world workers building those glamorous skyscrapers, without any union or fair labor representation.

The choice is yours! so what are you going to do Captain?:ok:

[Payscale]

Nope dude...this forum is not an information service fot you pleasure. Its a rumour network.....

The negative guyes can let off some steam here. The happy ones are at the beach or the pub...

If anyone makes their decision on info retrieved from a RUMOUR network, for their long term plans, when then good luck :cool:

Well there you go...Did you actually equate a pilot to an unskilled labour in terms of rights. Never been to the ME have we?

[pintofstella]

arob
Apart from saying you are a local f/o and a bit of a dick think about the big picture.
If it was not for the expat work force in YOUR country there would not be a an airline to talk about.
That about says it all..,,
I look forward to taking another sector off you useless want to be capt with 500 hrs on type.

[A340Jock]

I've been reading the rants on this forum for quite some time now from you EK prats. It seems that you guys who came from Joe Bloggs Airways suddenly seem to think that by default after 3 years service on EK you are entitled to a wide body command. Wake up boys and smell the bacon, command is not an entitlement you actually have to earn it.
Your attitude towards command is indicative of immaturity and frankly you deserve to sit on the right seat till you're mature enough to handle anyhing near command responsibility. Do you seriously question why EK are seeking DEC's when you prats are acting the way you are?
Thankfully the vast majority of EK f/o's are a bit more mature and professional than most of you to$$ers on this forum and they are the one's who advance and become good captains, the rest of you are just a sad excuse of occupying the right seat.
Have you perhaps forgot where you guys came from before joining EK????
You have the b@lls to critisize DEC's who have been captains for the past 10-15 years because they are not familiar to the EK sop's or destinations. Do you seriously think that what makes a good captain has anything to do with familiarity with the route structure??
Get the thumb out boys and stop with the bloody whinging because it's frankly getting real old. If you want to make the cut start acting remotely professional.

[Nearjet]

A quick question A340Jock.
Why should the "vast majority" of "mature professional" current EK FO's be by-passed by DEC's ?

[A340Jock]

Nice one Pintoftella, just proved exacly what I was talking about mate. I don't need to prove anything to you mate, if you don't have any self esteem then sure as hell I'm not going to teach you. At the end of the day expect to be treated the way you act.

[pintofstella]

A340 jock
Bit confused now as if you are a DEC or a wan a be local pilot, either way back to my stella and my 11 and a bit years pay you d@@k , cheers. Will pi@s you down the toilet later.....

[A340Jock]

Nearjet, good question and I'll happily answere it. If you work for a global airline with the rate of growth of EK do you seriously expect that no DEC's will be required to handle the crew requirements with the number of aircraft delivered? You cannot have the cake and eat it too, would you prefer to work for any airline that is in financial trouble and letting people go? You guys are all going to get command and frankly much faster than in the "real world" and certainly much faster than in "coconut airways" which you came from so what is your problem? The vast majority of the guys you fly with who occupy the left seat had to wait for ever to get a chance for command and you guys get the opportunity to fly for a world leading airline and get command withing 3-4 years and still complain like hell. Get real

[Nearjet]

A340Jock
We have heard all that before. Please re-read my question ? BTW I have been in EK for over 11 years now.

[A340Jock]

Nearjet your question is very clear and I fully understood it. The fact that "some" and I emphasize "some" f/o's in EK are constantly comlaining and act as compete pillocks on Pprune regarding command and DEC's is totally rediculous. For an airline like EK 3-4 even 5 years for command is a joke. It seems these guys are so full of themselves that they think that EK owes them a command just because they work for them for the past 3 years. What kind of dream world are these people living in?
Sorry mate but when I started flying things were a bit different, we actually had to work to get command.

By the way when you say you have been in EK 11 years what do you imply? Are you implying you are still an f/o? I seriously doubt that I don't know anyone in EK who is still an f/o after 11 years.
Sorry correction I do know a couple but they are a different story altogether

[Ahad Adump]

"The idea of this forum is to give useful, and educated information to people contemplating to join EK, EY etc,........ "

Arob, I agree with you, let us share useful information about EK:

Senior 777 Capt handcuffed and marched off a/c in LHR, no help from EK. In fact TCAS wants him binned before his trial.

Belgium f/o fired after 9 days in prison. Gets completely cleared by court with credit letter for 9 days in jail. HR says he misused his sick days.

EK re-applies for 1100hrs/yr with new FACTORING FORMULA.

AAR wants to bring all 164 Varig applicants and families here on a ship. Ground school to be done during the 3 week cruise. 107 are DEC's

[Nearjet]

A340Jock
Thanks, you have nearly answered my question.
So a FO with 5 years experience in EK thinking he may be ready for a command is a joke ? (excluding all previous experience)
But you seem to think that somebody with 2 years command experience with "Coconut Express" and coming to EK as a DEC is not a joke ?
When you have been here longer you may find out that not all of us come from "Coconut Airways".
Over and Out !!!!!!

[kiwi_r4]

A340 jock
Bit confused now as if you are a DEC or a wan a be local pilot, either way back to my stella and my 11 and a bit years pay you d@@k , cheers. Will pi@s you down the toilet later.....

Charming!

Pintofstella,

On another subject, how did you get on with your;

Netjets interview
G5 Exec interview
A340-500 DEC interview with SQ
Rapid CX command interview
Dragon Cargo interview with the possibility of UK base

Don't tell us you've been rejected by all five :uhoh:

I'm surprised you've got time to visit pprune and drink copious pints of stella.

[Payscale]

AHAD ADUMP.....

When did this happen? What did they do? I work here and havnt heard about them. Are we really that good at hidding out dirty laundry, while we happely slag the command issue, like an old record?

Can you share some info?

Payscale

[readytocopy]

I am an FO here at EK and although I tend to disagree with the DEC issue, I do agree with A340J.....where does it say "you will be a captain in 3 yrs service to EK"....it says you will be in the considered pool to be a captain. SO on that point guys that complain about the 3 yr mark...blah, blah, blah. However A340J we have many FO's that have come from major cariers like BA, AA, Virgin, UAL, AC etc etc and just because they were not from some low cost carier where they got their upgrade in 1yr and flew as a captain for 3yrs and now have come here as a DEC, are they less qualified; do you think we sit in the right seat with fingers up our.

The point is that Emirates thinks you need to be a scientist to ba a Captain. There are so many qualified FO's that can go captain but they insist to hire from the outside. They hire FO's from the States and Canada with 8000-9000 hours and they treat them like local arab cadet pilots, and that goes for all the pilots. I have never seen a training dept that has such a huge influence on the pilot group. They are trying to standardize things and fly the aircraft from behind the desk they forget our backgrounds and where we came from as pilots and something called airmanship. We are so worried half the time about the FOM and FCI's and covering our a*s, that we forget to fly the plane. We claim to be professionals, yet we brief each other to death because it says to do so in the FOM such as the mountains to the east of dubai...whocares....they have been there for millions of years and they are not moving. The biggest responsibilty I have is wether I want the seat belt sign "on" or "off" at 10000ft. We talk about CRM; aren't we both there in the flight deck.....just fly. My point is look at the upgrade questions....how many static wicks are there on a 777.....I don't think the last guy I flew with actually counted them or even noticed if one were missing. An airline is made up of so many people that come together as professionals and each do there part to make sure we get our passengers safe from A to B.....but yet every dept doesn't want to be accountable and are always covering there a*s....look at the acars the next time you ask maintenance for help and the disclaimer at the bottom. No one helps each other out in this airline and the onus is put on the pilot...no wonder it is impossible to be a captain in this airline. Guys it is just an airplane....wether it is a 737, 777, 767, 747....there is only so many ways to fly an aircraft....stop making it a science and upgrade the highly qualified FO's.

But what I have noticed in the last couple of months is that this company and training department is moving in the right direction and things are getting so much better.

But as to the upgrade, it has nothing to do with the 3yrs, they are looking at the muturity and the ability to manage and be open minded to others as well be assertive etc etc....What the guys are saying A340J is give the FO's who have been here for 3yrs a chance if there is a need for Captains, don't by-pass them.

[UAXCAPT]

Guys;

I am very disapointed with EK. My interview went really well and I am a captain with my current employer but applied for an FO position,. After looking at things in retro-respect and seeing who got an offer and who didn't It seems that if you are a brit , and australian or a south african you will get the job no matter what kind of experience you have and if you are from another country well if they like you fine, if not good luck with your future endeavors.

What a waste of time and resources.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

A340 jock
You are one sad piece of garbage. you probably got your command in 3 years , or are a DEC that everybody hates. What right have you to comment on the F/Os.
You think its fair 777 guys get their commands in 3 years and the Airbus guys have to wait longer because there is no aircraft coming. What if the A380 doesnt come there would be no more commands on Airbus for years. Its lucky nobody knows who you are or you would have nobody to fly with. Pull your head in looser.

[whossorrynow]

Wow, arobs' really lit a fire here.

Some things we might deduce about him.

1/ He works for Emirates
2/ He's an American.
3/ He's a DEC.
4/ He think's that he's made a good move.
5/ He think's that anybody in EK should be grateful to be allowed to work there.

Sound familiar?

Having said that, I don't think that arob is abrian. But maybe they went to the same school.

[hans_airbus]

A340 jock is absolutely right, most of EK F/O are a great bunch of prof and mature pilots. They dont blame the DECs because they might gonna do the same thing in the future.

Only a few incompetent i....s r complaining about EK and other minor things. If you are not happy here than just go. But pls stop whining and blaming others. They are plenty of jobs.

This is not a kindergaten.

[Payscale]

UAX.. I suppose that is a way of explaining why you didnt pass. If I saves your self esteem, good on you. I dont think it the case though. Sometimes it actually goes the other way. When there are too many from any of the big nationalities, they cut down the intake. To avoid dominance of any particular nationality.

Scooter...Chill. You are behaving like a brat. Shame on you..

Ready to copy.....I would like to be treated like a Cadet pilot. Just call rostering and tell them which flight you want. Work 20 yrs and retire on 75% of final salary. I know that wasnt what you meant though. These people dont have your interest at heart. Never had. Not ment to either. Stay here. Get 2000hr LHS and get a DEC job elsewhere. The 7 years is not worth waiting for...

[A340Jock]

Nearjet, it seems you are the one not reading my posts carefully. I never painted all EK f/o's with the same brush I in fact emphasized that "some" and only "some" here on Pprune seem to constantly throw their toys from the pram. Most f/o's in EK are highly professional individuals with very high hours. Nor did I say that the majority come from "coconut airways", I certainly believe that the one's constantly whining about command and DEC's probably came from "Joe Bloggs airways" flying poxy 737's and suddenly after 3 years fancy themselves in the left seat of a 777.

Just take a look at the comment from Mr Scooter there and you'll soon realize that the boy is just doing his best to substantiate what I'm talking about.

It's always the same small bunch of spoilt little brats screaming and whining and going on for ever. EK has about 1,600 pilots at present, it only seems a dozen or so are the ones constanly complaining here on Pprune.

I never said that I agree in principle with the DEC issue, but sadly that is the way many airlines with a high growth rate as EK go. In my previous airline we had the same problem, so what, that's life, who said life is always fair? Does that mean you loose all self esteem and rant on like a three year old because they took your toy away. I'd like to see actually how many of these hypocrits would not take a DEC position in another airline like SQ say if it was offered to them? Let me guess
Grow up boys and stop being complete and utter prats. You only make fools of yourselves

Over and out.
Enough typing, time for a nice cold one.
Cheers

[Ahad Adump]

Payscale

The 777 LHR thing is about 10 days old. Apparently he is back in DXB. Had an argument with security, went to a/c. CAA shows up and does breathalyser, he fails and does 4 days jail.

The Belgium f/o is still in DXB sorting paper work before his dep.
Reversed into a cab, breathalysed, jailed for 9 days. Court finds him innocent and gives him 9 days credit in jail for his next offence. JH from HR says sick days can't be used for doing innocent jail time and kicks him out.

The 1100hr thing has been with gcaa for a few weeks.

The Varig thing is hot rumour.

Cheers AA

[ruserious]

and does 4 days jail
AA that is totally untrue, please be careful about spreading unfounded rumours, especially when somebody's career is at stake. In LHR the pilots layover was less than 1 day longer than normal.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Have heard the breathalizer has been used on expats in accidents involving locals , where it was the locals fault and a false reading has been used to convict the innocent and protect the local from his stupidity. Careful in Dubai.
So what leave is availiable for Jail time?

[helen-damnation]

Ahad Adump

You're an ar$eh:mad: :mad: e!

We don't need this all over the general media especially when you seem to have got your facts wrong :ugh:
In the UK, where one of these events happened, you are innocent until proven guilty. You seem to have it all wrapped up already :mad:

Get a life.

HD

[Big Bald One]

The topic of DECs has been the "petrol for many a bonfire" it gets really hot really quickly!

It is , has been and will always be really pi## poor to be on the receiveing end of the issue but in reality there is nothing that can be done to stop management making unpleasant policy for some.

There is only one way to mitigate the bad feeling, to give all who feel up to the job a shot at the course.

In an ideal world it would be possible, no budget constraints , lack of sim time etc etc but there is no such thing as an ideal world.

In one operator some years ago the option was there for SFOs who had the requirements / hours , but felt to be not ready by the trainers, to insist on getting a shot at command...... the rider was if they failed they would not be given another go........ever. Harsh but fair or maybe not?

I my 20 yrs in the lhs a very general rule has grown by itself( and don't shoot the messenger boys!) there are guys who scream blue murder when they get the hours "Where is MY command?!" and guys who get on do the job of being a really pro FO and gently ask to be concidered when posts become available.

Who would you give the job to?

keep it safe.
BBO

[Farty Flaps]

EXekpilot.
A very good post.
I am amazed that as a heavy jet captain you would be so nieve as to believe a bunch of ex pat managers,and take an f/o job, but thats your call.
Just one question.
Are you joiining your new company as a senior training staff F/O or Capt.? If the latter then its very convenient that you are not blocking an F/o and both your conscience and hypocrisy are saved.However:

I know of an operator looking for dec tre/i. They are most definately taking the jobs of current staff. Not their commands , but their slots as tre.They are 6 to 10 yrs senior to any TRE DEC and very competant. You see its cheaper,and they are using an agency to disguise the advert. So as eloquent as your post began it seems to descend into hypocrisy, unintentionally or otherwise. Not that I blame you because if your story is true you must have been pretty poissed off for years. Just putting it in perspective, and adding another dimension to the Dubai flat earth mentality.:hmm:

[Biff99]

:confused: Why are you holding a grudge towards the DEC. They don't hire them self.
I you have a gripe with the company take them on. Don't vent your anger towards people who came here like your selves to try and create a better life for themselves and there families.
And no, I'm not a DEC but and F/O. Yes you will say wait until it happens to you! Yes that might be, but it does not make it the Dec's fault. Some of them are highly qualified and yes some or most struggle. But then again so will you if information is with held from you and then when your do you test you fail.
To me that's childish, immature and unprofessional
Those of you who are by-past, must ask yourself, is it because of me or is it because of the policies implemented by the company.
If its is the company then it is simple, move on.
For it will never change.
But to call the Dec's selfish and thieves, is a bit much

[hans_airbus]

Ex Ek Pilot


Very Good Post.

You Are Joining Ur New Airline As A Dec. Very Good. You Are Really A Proffesional Pilot.

[montencee]

Seems to me that exekpilot is just stating facts.

He's making no claim to a moral high ground.


Have DECs devalued EK as a career employer?

Do the 'proper' airlines employ DECs?

Will the airline as a whole suffer in the long term?


Yes, no and probably.

[mensaboy]

Exekpilot,
That is one of the best posts i've read in a long time. Sums things up rather nicely.
Millerscourt..... he's joining an organization that requires senior training staff.... which if I am correct, means he is not a DEC.

Best of luck in your new position.

[BYLAW]

Hear! hear! for ex ekpilot!

For Mutley: very good Mut, you stopt the copy and paste!
Now just get rid of that pedantic schoolteachers mentality and you be just fine! Must be in the genes in your part of the world.

[turtleneck]

............... as a dec ..............

[Farty Flaps]

Mutley,
Hippocrasy is the study of large stubborn unwieldy waterborne pigs. Not so far off after all:}

[EZGOEK330FO]

Excellent post Ex EK

I assume you have gone to Airbus?????

Good Luck with your choices:) :) :) :)

[UAXCAPT]

Payscale, this is not a matter of self esteem.. I expressed how I felt after my experience . By the way I am not the only one who feels this way.. Many pilots who are there feel that there is some kind of a british Mafia in the gulf region.. Same goes with Saudia Arabia where people said it over and over it is the American mafia runing the flt depts.

So going back to my issue.. Let talk statistics.. How many British , Australians, South Africans and people from New Zeeland are Flight deck officers and get some numbers regarding Americans & Canadians.

If someone has the numbers and is willing to share them with us it will be nice...

[Ghostflyer]

UAX,

You are right there are more Brits, Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis and Yarpies than say Americans. Why is that, it must be the blatant discriminatory recruitment practices of EK!!

Alternatively it could be because a lot of them came long ago due to circumstances. A bunch of Aussies came after the dispute in the late 80s when they were all fired. Even more of them came when Ansett went down the tubes in 2002. The Brits have come in dribs and drabs over the years, the big in-flux of Canuks was when C3 went down and then with Air Canada's problems.

Now it seems that a few yanks want to come. In the past, the US market wouldn't have lowered themselves to the level of going to the sandpit for anything. ALPA was keeping the salaries nice and high and trying to get the golden goose to lay its last egg. So its no use bleating that the jobs have gone in the past to certain nationalities, we ate the crumbs from your table and you laughed in our faces, now the boot is on the other foot.

However, I'll put your mind at rest, we have over 70 nationalities and recent hires have come from Colombia, Mexico, The Carribean, Brazil and Ethiopia in increasing numbers. The Canuks are now the 2nd largest nationality here (oops there goes a plank of your argument) and most of the recent hires have come from North and South America.

So playing the nationality/race card starts to look like you are making excuses for your own performance at interview.

The Stats in Early 2005 were (thanks to Alphaprot):

British 205
Australian 147
Canadian 137
UAE 79
NZ 72
S. African 68
Swedish 39
German 36
Swiss 36
Belgian 26
American 25
Malaysian 25
Irish 23
Indian 20
Italian 15
Norwegian 15
Mexican 14
Zimbabwean 12
Pakistani 11
Austrian 10
Greek 10
Danish 9
Dutch 9
Bahraini 8
Maltese 8
Yugoslav 7
Egyptian 6
Jamaican 6
French 5
Kenyan 5
Omani 5
Algerian 4
PNG 4
Croatian 3
Jordanian 3
Trinidadian 3
Brazilian 2
Czech 2
Finn 2
Hungarian 2
Iranian 2
Portuguese 2
Slovene 2
SriLankan 2
Turkish 2
Bahamian 1
Bulgarian 1
Chilean 1
Colombian 1
Ecuadorean 1
Ethiopian 1
Filipino 1
Grenadian 1
Luxembourger 1
Nepalese 1
Qatari 1
Seychellois1
Slovakian 1
Tongan 1

Ghost

[lead zeppelin]

Burma, '43

[NG_Kaptain]

Update the Trinidad count:)
BTW EK is supposed to be having a road show in T&T to recruit the BWIA pilots who are on the bread line.

[Capt737AA]

So when EK would layoff pilots, how is it determined who goes first etc, with no seniority list per se?

Pat

[Vorsicht]

So when EK would layoff pilots, how is it determined who goes first etc, with no seniority list per se?


That's easy. They"ll get rid of the ones they don't like

[Oblaaspop]

"Lay off pilots"??????????????

Where have you been???

We haven't got enough to fly the aircraft we have got, let alone the 120ish on order!!!:ugh:

BTW There is a seniority list (updated once every decade!)

[aimscabinet]

[quote=Capt737AA;2887778]So when EK would layoff pilots, how is it determined who goes first etc, with no seniority list per se?[/quote

As usual in aviation, the "undesirables" first, the most expensive, and probably, the non-aligned. :E

[sandpit]

Just in case you relative "newbies"" (less than about 12 years in EK) don't know, lay offs have happened in the past. Some guys were fired and some given leave without pay who subsequently returned.

[dogcrushedvelvet]

............and some given leave without pay who subsequently returned.


Been here quite a bit longer than 12 years and have no recollection of this.

But if they could get away with it they would get rid of as many long termers as possible and replace them with new joiners on starting salaries.

[atiuta]

I think the current CFE will put you straight about previous redundancies.

[pintofstella]

same old bull sh@t. At the end of the the day, the job is great once you are on the plane. Its the ancillrary **** that is a joke, ( more than a joke verging on insulting) We know what we are doing and have to do so LEAVE US TO DO IT YOU BUNCH OF MUPPETS UPSTAIRS , back to lower case now because they go to sleep at a normal time every night with no fog or atc sh@t. Had enough know so back to the stella

[sandpit]

atiuta, I as one of those affected (not fired!), so don't need setting straight, but thanks for the thought!;)

[tournesol]

An F/O with 11yrs service does not automatically become a Cpt.
The company has a system of evaluating FOs who are capable for command. Those who are not, I am afraid will have to remain FO, look for another job or try again at a later stage(hopefully some maturity will have accrued by then).
Moaning and biching will not give them a chance for command.
This just happen to be a reality of life, anywhere in the world. Not just with EK.

[TangoUniform]

An F/O with 11yrs service does not automatically become a Cpt.
The company has a system of evaluating FOs who are capable for command. Those who are not, I am afraid will have to remain FO, look for another job or try again at a later stage(hopefully some maturity will have accrued by then).
Moaning and biching will not give them a chance for command.
This just happen to be a reality of life, anywhere in the world. Not just with EK.

Well, not completely true. If you are talking about upgrades to captain. As you should know, airlines that have ironclad seniority allow upgrades when it is time and a slot available. These airlines say they hire captains from the start and that everyone should be eligible when the time is there. If you can't pass the upgrade, that's a whole 'nother story. If one doesn't have the "maturity" or whatever subjective quality management sees, to not be a captain, should one really be sitting in the right seat too? To have a pseudo psychologist make the decision whether or not someone is capable of command is bizarre. But I guess there are so many different levels of experience amongst the f/o's that there has to be a deal breaker somewhere.
TU

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

A340Jock,

You're treading on thin ice with your caustic remarks.

To my knowledge the EK selection process is geared towards pilots who are up for command. It seems quite reasonable that F/O's should be upset at direct entry captains taking the slots.

Blue Foot

[aimscabinet]

You're treading on thin ice with your caustic remarks.

To my knowledge the EK selection process is geared towards pilots who are up for command. It seems quite reasonable that F/O's should be upset at direct entry captains taking the slots.

The direct entry captain thing is not new in Emirates. It happened in the 727, A310/A300,and now, in the 777 and 330/340.
It is been in the policies since day one, and the company used it as they needed.
I am not sure whether they save any money hiring and training a guy from outside. Ultimately, yes, they use their command experience, but we, the more experienced f/os, have to actually finish their training on the line, as unofficial "training f/os" ... for free :-)))
It is not a fair thing, but there isn't much one can do, other than whine.:rolleyes:

[aimscabinet]

The company has a system of evaluating FOs who are capable for command. Those who are not, I am afraid will have to remain FO, look for another job or try again at a later stage(hopefully some maturity will have accrued by then).

:ouch: In some cases, maturity was not an issue; but plain bias, discrimination, and ignorance, led the check airmen to fail certain candidates.

[theidler]

The direct entry captain thing is not new in Emirates. It happened in the 727, A310/A300,and now, in the 777 and 330/340.
It is been in the policies since day one, and the company used it as they needed.
It is not a fair thing, but there isn't much one can do, other than whine.:rolleyes:

Other than that in around 1995 the then Head of Flight Operations is on record as saying that he (the HFO) was the last DEC that Emirates would employ.

This with the intention of moving Emirates towards being a world class airline with a career structure and future comparable to say Cathay Pacific rather than the likes of Korean Airlines that Emirates then compared to and is now comparable to again.

[L1011]

Other than that in around 1995 the then Head of Flight Operations is on record as saying that he (the HFO) was the last DEC that Emirates would employ.
If it was GJ you're talking about, the meeting was in November 1993 I think. He was just appointed SGMFO back then. We gave him an ovation for that remark and he stuck to his promise. But the FOM always allowed the company to take DECs if needed. The two Yarpies were the only examples (both as GMs) until the recent flood.
Agree with the CX-KAL comparision. T & C's are rapidly approach KAL levels, but for the commuting rosters. Just hope our safety record stays like CX's but have my doubts these days. :sad:

[tournesol]

:ouch: In some cases, maturity was not an issue; but plain bias, discrimination, and ignorance, led the check airmen to fail certain candidates.[/QUOTE]

I don't know how long you have been in the business.
One thing is for sure, what you have mentioned happens in almost every organization. Failing a check is sometimes based on the examiners poor judgement.
As long as he/she is human, he/she is prone to misjudge at certain times. It is unfortunate but can you think of any other way of checking ?

Back to FOs who have been waiting for THEIR cammand for 11 yrs, I have 2questions.
1.Are you trying to tell me for the last 11yrs EK did not promote any FO to CPT position ?
2.Why did they skip you ? could it be that you need to look at your own performence and attitude ?
3.If the answer is NO to all the above, then you have been treated unfairlly, and you should take maters in you own hand, such look for another airline that will give you a fair deal.
You knew very well when you came here that there were no unions to back you up. You knew that if you rub your boss the wrong side, YOU are the looser. And yet you accepted the job. Why are you now making such a big fuss ?
Another thing I like, DECs come here to take our jobs. Since when those were your jobs ? you joined as FOs with possibility for command. Read your contract again, is the command guaranteed ?

[ratpoison]

Read your contract again
Maybe you should be saying that to the turds in management. :=

[MR8]

tournesol said: Another thing I like, DECs come here to take our jobs. Since when those were your jobs ? you joined as FOs with possibility for command. Read your contract again, is the command guaranteed ?

Actuelly, the answer to your question is a sort of YES!!
Our contract goes together with the rules laid out in the FOM. And guess what the FOM says... well, we all know it, first 3 year guys, then accelerated guys, last DEC's. If you want me to go and look up the exact ording again, I'll do it, or you can just search for it on PPRUNE, I posted it before.
So, although I have to agree that you are not guaranteed the command, we were (actually according to he present rulesm we still ARE) guaranteed to have a shot at command, that is, the assessment, and when that's good, the actual course.

So please tournesol, stop posting cr@p to wind people up, it just shows how much of a w@nk3r you are... Almost as bad as Captain America/Tartan Boy.

Well, I'm off doing more interesting things..

MR8

[ekpilot]

Aren't you all just dying to find out the EK definition of "specific circumstances"...

[Fart Master]

Yeah just read the letter, very interesting. But given that they are already doing transition upgrades for accelerated guys I would assume (Dangerous word that!) that it would involve the 3 year guys:ok:

[tournesol]

MR 8,
You are showing your true colors.
Rather than responding to a fair question, you are calling me names.
That will only increase your frustrations. If you could spend the same amount of energy in looking for the reasons of why YOU haven't been given a shot for command and DO SOMETHING about it, you might be a Cpt prety soon.
A childish attitude of calling names, blaming eveyone else for your misfortunes and prejudice implications won't get you far.
You should learn how to be civil even when the going gets tough. You will be amazed on how many ppl notice your behaviour based on what you say and your body language projects.
If you are good enough and behave like a pro, EK will give you a chance for command sooner or later. If you are not good enough and behave like a kid, you will spend more time wining on pprune and entertain the world.
G'day mate.

[MR8]

tournesol...

I know why I don't have my command yet at EK, that's because I'm just coming up my 3 years in the company, and there is a load of people ahead of me on the seniority list who will have their shot first, as they should. I came to EK by my own choice, giving up a good seat and some salary, would I do it again.. well yes I would. But it doesn't mean that I can't be seriously p1ss3d off at the way I am treated here. And that includes DEC's!!
Actually, if there were no DEC's, I could start my Command course about now... and you might have a chance to prove your point about my maturity if I should fail.. Unfortunately, with the delays of the A380 and he DEC's coming in, it looks like we have to wait another 2 years to prove anything..
So why the hostile attitude towards you? First of all, I went a bit through your history of postings, and it is very clear that you are very opinionated, even though you might not have the inside information. As for EK, somehow, you keep replying to posts on EK, yet you don't fly here.. So how can you ask me to read my contract (which includes the FOM) if you don't have a copy yourself? How can you know how much we have been lied to by management in the past years, if you never got the letters? How can you know how our conditions have been changed already in the time that I have been here, so let alone for the guys who have been here for a much longer time, all 'cost neutral' for the company, but somehow costing the pilot group a fortune? How can you know how bad the flying skills of most people are in EK, not because they are bad pilots, but because the company doesn't want us to practise the AVIATE step anymore in Aviate-Navigate-Comminicate? I am aware that some of these things happen in other companies as well, but you won't see me posting on their forums, because I have no idea about how things work over there..
So, I hope this answers your question about why I don't have my command yet, as well as why I have a certain opinion about you.

To bed now..

MR8

[turtleneck]

the contract may go with the fom. however there is no mention of this in it. the fom can be changed
or even overlooked without breach of our contract. 3 years to upgrade are just a verbal promise, not
even a verbal contract. at the moment all upgrades happen before 4 years, this should still be very
much in tolerance of normal airline fluctuation.
consider this: those dec's who cared to ask were also told that no fo would be overlooked
for the 3 year line (at least the first bunch recruited for the 343's). now that everyone has been lied to,
do you realistcally think that they would feel obliged to quit? by constantly hitting on them you imply
that they should assume responsibility for management screwups to please the fo's? - get real mates.
it's just as arrogant as the dec-nursing argument, like: [quote] "...but we, the more experienced f/os, have to
actually finish their training on the line, as unofficial "training f/os" ... for free :-)))...." [endquote]
to overrate yourself is quite dangerous for your upgrade....
dec's were reintroduced in sep 03. every fo entering later would have known about and cannot complain. those
who joined just before should be in their upgrade shortly, within 4 years, if they performed normally.
you can now stop with the dec-bashing.

[Kawasaki787]

For those who want to join EK, beware that you will be rostered to a maximum of 8 Days OFF, operating through many times zones, spending 24 hours, then returning to Dubai. They will send you on a daylight flight, expect you to have 2x rest periods in a 24 hour layover, then fly back at night!! Initially this will be okay, but you will start to feel it after many months.

In-flight sleep quarters are uncomfotable and add to fatigue. For starters, the atmosphere on the 340-500 is dry, so one needs to drink continuously. This in turn requires constant dunny visits, which disturbs sleep. On the Boeing 777, one canno't stand. The only place to eat is in the cockpit.

Most flights are rostered to maximum duty but expect to be on duty more than the MAX as the actual report time is NOT logged!! Managment expects pilots to fly into discretion, they even send out emails to highlight this!! I thought discretion is at the end of a flight when one can guage if tired or NOT.

Flight Operations management do not know the line culture as they are employed in non flying positions. They are "YES BOSS" oriented.

Now they have applied to work pilots to 1100 FLIGHT hours per year, while the DUTY hours will be much longer and you will not be paid for the extra work. This is unsafe on the long haul operation, maybe OK on short haul acclimatised. They simply don'y care.

Virgin Blue or equivalent will be better in terms of longevity. More to come....

By the way, expect to be lied to all the time, particularly by TCAS!!! Ask any British Airways pilot about him.

[dogcrushedvelvet]

dec's were reintroduced in sep 03. every fo entering later would have known about and cannot complain. those
who joined just before should be in their upgrade shortly, within 4 years, if they performed normally.
you can now stop with the dec-bashing.

So writes a DEC.

Except that there could be a 100 or more First Officers disadvantaged in perpetuity in both salary and command seniority by the DEC program.

Of course it's healthy to move on. So just do as turtleneck says lads, and stop bashing the DECs.

Anyway, the management will be expecting an outburst of high morale over the next few days, a company party's sure to make everybody forget about their lifestyle and career issues. Or will it?

[pintofstella]

Co party... cant wait .. may be we should do a cathay thing with a bowl or 2 of peanuts. Read the portal today, cannnot believe their attitude. Might bring the boys down from waxy's!!! should make it a bit more intereseting.

PS forgot to say ... plus a few stella"s for the good boys here> AS don't drink yours

[BIKKERDENNAH]

Why would anybody be remotely interested in this PARTY anyway.:confused: :confused: The only people there will be management ,and Brownosers who want to climb the corporate slippery pole!!

That is not fun to me!!

:sad:

[Farty Flaps]

I have seen the posts, and I believe that I have given a balanced account of the situation at EK.
I have taken a position that has been approved by the pilot union and not only management. It means that although for sure someone interanally could have gone for it, the pilot body has approved it.
This is more than the current situation in EK. It is a move home, it is a move that benefits the family, and it is a move into an organization that is different to EK.
:O

How convenient that you are going to utopia. I doubt any pilot body approved it. Maybe a union rep or two were out maneuvered again.Or blinded by the glitz and glamour of sitting at the top table.
I'm not wishing you ill, quite the opposite, but it is no different to taking a dec at ek. You see there is no need to get pilot body approval at ek because there isnt one.There is no need to get pilot body approval at your new place either because even thought there is one they dont make policy just window dressing . Ask the internal guys if they were offered your job , not the top table reps, harumphing away with the management. Probably eying up a juicy job themselves at the top table.
Again I dont wish you ill just lets not fool ourselves (yourselves) and justify what is a move that suits you, not your new colleagues. Oh just like a dec at ek.
A spade is a spade


The union may have approved a few positions as a bargaining tool but I'll bet it was not put to any pilot body particularly the ones it may affect.
Good luck anyway. I hope your new colleagues show a better tolerance for your arrival than some of the childish sh1te on here.

[montencee]

I say again.

Seems to me that exekpilot is just stating facts.

He's making no claim to a moral high ground.


Have DECs devalued EK as a career employer?

Do the 'proper' airlines employ DECs?

Will the airline as a whole suffer in the long term?


Yes, no, probably.


Where exekpilot is going is irrelevant to the DEC issues at Emirates. Particularly to those F/Os/recent upgrades still at Ek who have been screwed over by the DEC program.

[gatvol2006]

Gees boyz EK is the place! Lovin it, nice management, excellent training, and a bunch of guys that really care about each other and the company. whats the problem?

[airliner747]

You're dammed right about this..

But sometimes you look for something , maybe some technical , maybe something about a company..

Well I am a pilot lying on the beach and just enjoying my time on a B747 flight deck at 32 years of age..

C Ya !!



Nope dude...this forum is not an information service fot you pleasure. Its a rumour network.....

The negative guyes can let off some steam here. The happy ones are at the beach or the pub...

If anyone makes their decision on info retrieved from a RUMOUR network, for their long term plans, when then good luck :cool:

Well there you go...Did you actually equate a pilot to an unskilled labour in terms of rights. Never been to the ME have we?

[sec 3]

Yeah, and I work with many guys who are less than 30 years of age who are captains on heavy jets and are tired of going to the beach every day.They have different toys for every day of the week:E

[arob]

Do I hear some engines whinnying, or is it again the same people that keep complaining, and do absolutely nothing?
After reading most of the posts I do agree that there is a lot to be done , however I still don't agree with the comments saying that DEC are preventing FOs from upgrading. Having joined from Coconut Airways with 2000 hrs jet time and a Captain babysitting you all this time does not give you entiltlment to an upgrade.
DEC have been around forever!! It is a quick solution by most airlines to compensate for the fast growth of the airline as is the case of Emirates.
Most go and throw another shrimp on the barbie:ok:

[Fart Master]

arob, thats right, you are not entitled to an upgrade. But doing your 3 years and getting 4's and 5's ie good marks, I believe entitles you to a shot at it ahead of DEC's though

[JonBoy80]

I love this site. A breeding ground for Flight Deck who beleive that complaining will get them far in Emirates. Funny how till now, the company hasnt changed anything thats annoyed you. Perhaps they look at it from a BUSINESS point of view and not a "Im a captain/FO, im special and need my life in dubai to be perfect, oh please emirates, change everything to make me happy"... Rat Poison, Life is soo difficult for you in Emirates. Poor you. I will buy u a lollipop and perhaps that will make you feel muchhhhhhh better for the next hour or so...

Its very simple "unhappy bunch". Stay, bite your tongue and survive or leave and give someone else who wants to join an oppurtunity. :ok:

[Payscale]

747...my point is, if one is interested in a airline change, pprune in not the place to find your info. Nobady says anything nice in here about anything. EXEKPILOT did a great and balanced piece, but they are far apart.

If you have never been to the ME, and want to come work here, you must travel down with the wife and see it for yourself.

Excellent that you are on the B747 cockpit at 32. Swedish friend of mine was B777 skipper at 30.....after having flown the B747. Time and place is off the essence.

[Alan Squeely]

Oh dear??

A couple more high seniority resignations this week, the boys are off to greener pastures. I was wondering. what do you think the chances are for the likes of TCAS to be finally held to account for the mess that he has managed to put EK flight ops. in?

Sorry TCAS, you can't hold Mister Ed. responsible for this one, he hasn't been around long enough, and I do know that you are the one who is saying that basings aren't necessary, despite the 50% decrease in applications and a massive spike in resignations.

Remember that TCK had his sycophant's ball just before he was summarily marched out with cause.

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

So who has left this time. Curious minds need to know!

SyB :zzz:

[Yossarian]

Yeah, and EK management reckon they will replace these two "expensive" captains with three cheaper DECs. Cool!

[Marooned]

Ironic that the 'cheaper' DECs are becoming more expensive...

The effect of recruiting inexperienced DECs has been an increase training costs (more sims/sector training), added to the replacement costs of not only the 'experienced' captains leaving but also the F/Os resigning having been lied to and disadvantaged by the policy. Prospective candidates are also turning their back on EK as the DECs signal a lack of F/O career progression adding even more to the cost.

Lack of pilots on the line are leading to more work for those already fatigued and angry with the current situation... expect more resignations of the 'expensive' pilots to come.

Long term safety issues will also add significantly to the overall cost.

The lack of foresight and crass implimentation of the DECs policy will cost far more in the long run.

[atiuta]

$10000-150000/mth?

Will it be paid retrospectively?

[ekpilot]

Come on guys!! So who's resigned?

[ruserious]

Nobody NEW who is senior that shows up on the rostering system for November, unless you count a 15xxxx staff number as senior :\
Last guys that I could see who where senior are evil & bill, IYKWIM

[ShockWave]

Also more resignations from training, where the new DECs will have to be trained...

Anyone with a 15XXXX staff number would be in their eighth year with Emirates, which would have to equate to 25 years worth of ****e in any other airline. So i'd say they are senior, anyone who has been here around 15y is more likely to be classified as senile.:} Or equipped with unfathomable amounts of tolerance, fortitude and a hide as thick as an elephants.:)

[ruserious]

Hard to argue with your reasoning Shockwave, only a few more years to senility

[Ahad Adump]

Not sure if these guys rg on Thursday but they are on short final.

GM - 340 TRE
CP - 340 TRE
RT - 340 TRE
MS - Think he is a line guy on 340

Going to.........................are you ready for this......................senior TRE's pulling in 15U$/mnth....................................can't stand this BS anymore........................EASYJET!!!!!!!!!

What an insult to EK.
Yeah man.

I hear EGT is sniffing at Jetairways.

[Fish]

Fame at last!! my initials are on PPRuNe!! :)

[ruserious]

Ahh, but you have been famous for a long time Mark. Good luck in fresher climes

[Payscale]

Fish are you realy TCK???:} :p :ouch:

[Fish]

As soon as I posted that flipant remark, I knew someone would say something like "So which one are you, TCK or TCAS?" :)

Nope, I'm just the regular Airbus line guy who's going home. I've had fun in Dubai and made many friends, had some great trips with great people, but home beckons and Dubai's not for me anymore. As for being senior, well, if that's all you've got to argue about Ruserious, maybe you should think about going home too? :) It's been good working with you guys but there's still 2 more months to go!!! :)

[BANANASBANANAS]

Fish?

Would that be Fish as in user of Fish Eye Lens, late of the abode of peace by any chance?:ok:

[Hamid_27]

Hey, fish, im thinking about going over to EK and moving to Dubai soon.

how long have you been in Dubai with EK for? just Curious :E .

Hamid

[Fish]

Hi Bananas, yes, it would. Are you a former resident of Chester, proud father of an appropriately named son and owner of a twenty year old Honda Civic??

And Hamid, I'm leaving Dubai and EK, are you sure that I'm the right person to be giving you career advice? ;)

[ruserious]

Ruserious, maybe you should think about going home too?
No argument there, just not as soon as I would like, although I do have a cunning plan...

[Fish]

A Cunning Plan...? Is this thread going to degenerate into the Blackadder thread, like a previous one morphed into a Monty Python parody? :}

[Ramboflyer 1]

Korean Airlines needs about 100 captains next year and then some.

[ruserious]

"You wouldn't recognize a cunning plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord singing 'Cunning plans are here again!'"

[Fish]

Something is always wrong, Balders. The fact that I am not a millionaire aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle..

[Chimbu chuckles]

Might be old but heard a funny one last night

EMIRATES

England Managed Indian Run All The Employees Shagged

:E

[Marooned]

"Wrote a note in my diary having left a good job for EK... simply says bugger".

[ekpilot]

Couldn't resist....

"Have you ever been to Wales, Baldrick?"
"No, but I've often thought I'd like to."
"Well don't, it's a ghastly place. Huge gangs of tough sinewy men roam the valleys terrifying people with their close harmony singing. You need half a pint of phlegm in your throat just to pronounce the placenames. Never ask for directions in Wales Baldrick, you'll be washing spit out of your hair for a fortnight." :p

[White Sausage]

What a load of crap...:ugh:

[Fart Master]

White Sausage, with all due respect, actually scrub that, 'SHUT UP MORON', the boys are having a laugh, nip down to the life shop and buy one :rolleyes:

[145qrh]

Well Farty "I believe the term rhyms with clucking bell"
What are you on Whitey ???? or maybe you should keep taking the medecine...

[Fish]

Maybe he's Welsh? ;)

[atiuta]

Probably a few proud Welshmen tonight no doubt.

[QNH1013]

Actually the line from the 'Goes Forth' series is
"I believe the phrase rhymes with clacking bell"
Ok, I'm a telly rat.:p

Ok so back on the resignation issue is the rumour true a senior airbus training Capt just left for CX second officer? Is it that bad to go back to the 3rd seat?

[White Knight]

Don't know about senior QNH, but an LTC left a few months back to go 2nd officer at CX....

Best of luck Fish:cool: :cool:

[Alan Squeely]

Gentlemen,

I move that some of the more forethoughted ones who have left EK can offer us some stories from their life after EK! I will be able to add my own soon, I am currently sitting out my last days.

Over one hundred pilots gone in the last six months, could some of you offer your thoughts. My friends who have left say it is the best move that they have ever made, I'm sure that we would like to read some first hand accounts of life after Mak-World?

:D

[Vorsicht]

It would appear that life is so good for those guys that they no longer feel the need to waste their days on Proon, unlike those of us left here in the 'pit.

Good luck to em.

V

[777SandMan]

Alan S.

Did you also drive a 911 Turbo, shipped your Harley and Jetskis to your new location, and is still bitching and moaning about the "pit".

Amazing the dudes that we have to work with - tells me what a sh:mad: t place the sandpit is, then pulls out the laptop to show pictures of the Harley/Porsche/Jetski/ and condos in Durban/Brisbane/Milan. Then informs me of the 1 000 000/2 000 000/ 3 000 000 Dirhams that he made on his place Arabian Ranches/Green Community/Marina! (DELETE IF REQUIRED):ugh:

Then I say "YES CAPTAIN, IT IS A SH:mad: t PLACE TO WORK AND LIVE IN" and then I stare into the darkness ahead!

[Fart Master]

Huh?:confused: :confused: :confused:

[ruserious]

Then I say "YES CAPTAIN, IT IS A Sh*t PLACE TO WORK AND LIVE IN" and then I stare into the darkness ahead!
Keep staring, I think you will find the "rings around uranus" and maybe TCAS's too.

[ironbutt57]

"Brown-25" another fine product from the Uranus Corporation..."because things come out different at Uranus...(quote form the OLD movie..The Groove tube) :}

[Dirigible]

It's not all about the money...this article eloquently expresses sentiments about the place and the sad plight of those less fortunate.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6171909.stm
Merry Christmas all.

[dedeita]

Alan S.

Did you also drive a 911 Turbo, shipped your Harley and Jetskis to your new location, and is still bitching and moaning about the "pit".

Amazing the dudes that we have to work with - tells me what a sh:mad: t place the sandpit is, then pulls out the laptop to show pictures of the Harley/Porsche/Jetski/ and condos in Durban/Brisbane/Milan. Then informs me of the 1 000 000/2 000 000/ 3 000 000 Dirhams that he made on his place Arabian Ranches/Green Community/Marina! (DELETE IF REQUIRED):ugh:

Then I say "YES CAPTAIN, IT IS A SH:mad: t PLACE TO WORK AND LIVE IN" and then I stare into the darkness ahead!


Amazing......can you do all of the above, have all these expensive toys, real estate invesments with the first offficer salary, married, with two kids, because it´s true i have been working for the wrong company all my life

[russellpeters]

heard from the grapevine that about 35 capts are leaving ek for 9w .is this true . is it the start of an exodus from the gulf

[L1011]

9W being the reggo for Jet Airways i assume/

Heard many of the Euro commuters were heading that way, wanting the base at home. Good for them, hope it works out. Will give us poor stiffs a boost and the company a kick in a tender spot.:eek:

[BIKKERDENNAH]

Sorry who is 9w.

Quite a few guys are waiting for start dates and offers with Jet Airways if thats who you mean. A couple have already left but have never come up on the crew portal under RG , funny that!!:ok:

Ahhhh L1011 you pipped me to the post!!:D

[Marooned]

Jet: So far all Airbus guys... the numbers leaving will increase as the 777 recruiment picks up pace in a few months...and they're not the only ones needing the pilots...more to come.

Don't think AARs 'pay rise' scam is nearly enough to stop the rot. It may have damped down the fire a bit but got nowhere near to putting it out.

TCAS in CBC a few days ago seemed oblivious...or perhaps it just ignorance.

[BIKKERDENNAH]

NOPE. NOT ALL AIRBUS!!

2 777 CAPTAINS!!:ok:

[Marooned]

...it has begun...

[theidler]

Will someone please apply for the soon to be vacant position of Deputy Chief Pilot Airbus. My inbox is filling up as they continue to resend the FCN with ever reducing requirements for the position.

[Blair Brownnose]

Duh! Its an invitation to DECs...:mad:

[dedeita]

what about Korean, they are desperate looking for 747/777 drivers(capts and f/o). it seems the pay is good and for sure is a commuter job. IMHO

[Inspector Clueless]

Well.I am one of the 94-150 plus(take your pick) pilots that left EK in 2006 and there is believe it or not life after EK.For those considering leaving(or joining) heres my take on it:-

It wasnt a hard decsion to leave-once you are set to go,but it is a wrench to leave a company & friends after 10+ years and start over-that said I have been made very welcome at my new outfit and Im treated like an adult.I have some good friends still at EK but many have gone and I can report they are all happy to have done so-thus far.Many like myself have a peek at Pprune to see what s going on-it is after all he only real way to get a cross section of opinion apart from friends still there.

Heres the facts compared with the real world as I see it:-

Experience at EK is second to none,good equipment,varied flying,generally a good standard with generally good people to work with.Decent if not varied training standards(I was a trainer)

Pay hard to equal in overall package terms,not bad EXCEPT currency conversion was an issue for me and hit me hard when getting Prov Fund out.Prov Fund v v disappointing.Currency exchange is biting hard unless you are investing/spending in USD.

I think there must be some real questioning going on somewhere "upstairs" as to how EK descended into its current situation-I had 8 great years at EK and another final 3 were highly disappointing watching some unreal decisions unfold.

I think EK offers a job if you need one and good opportunities for those willing to take the plunge.If youre going now with your family the advice on PPrune is honest and it will help make your decsion.Personally unless there are some radical re thinks I dont think it will be a career especially if you leaving the 1st world and a good job already.If however you NEED a job its still OK and you could do a great deal worse.For me DXB could never be home and after a long time it was time to move back.EK I think delude themselves that this is why pilots leave and that "market forces" are at work.Nonsense on both counts IMHO they simply do not listen to what pilots need and want in terms of lifestyle.With young kids DXB was great for us-teenage kids not ideal,again my opinion only.The roads were a lot less busy then and the beaches etc more plentiful.

EK have however IMHO missed some crucial opportunities to have made EK one of the best and most highly sought after jobs in the industry.Why they decided to play hardball and ignore all the advice and suggestions I personally do not understand.Everyone of my friends told the same old story at the exit interview and clearly it was "box ticking" as nothing has changed at all.

Eventually these decisions will have consequences for EK-Im glad I went and gained fantastic experience,made great friends had good times.However,most of those friends have gone and Im glad I left.

I wrote to AS and Mr ED but neither bothered to reply-so I guess they really dont know why I personally left,to those joining good luck but go in with your eyes and ears wide open having done your research.Had anybody listened yet alone acted on what the 94-150 pilots said at their interviews I truly believe many would have stayed.It doesnt look to me that with the current team in place thats ever likely to happen so long may the pilot market be buoyant.

If you want more info-let me know I will try and remain honest.


Inspector Clueless:rolleyes:

[Cyberbird]

as stated obove - by Captain Clueless - who hit the nail spot on with his posting about the 90-150 left pilots (that's close to 10 % !!) who voted with their feet ...
.... "I think there must be some real questioning going on somewhere "upstairs" as to how EK descended into its current situation-I had 8 great years at EK and another final 3 were highly disappointing watching some unreal decisions unfold"
... and as it looks to me: EK- recruitment is now getting pretty desperate to attract any qualified pilots at all, if You see that - first time ever to me! - full page advertisment @ Flight International this week !
Desparation is starting to kick in recruitment obviously - and those "crums" like that crappy 6% payrise - vs. the 20% the UAE local-employees in government offices get (from 1st Jan. respectively !!) - is contributing to that "downward spiral", as it does by no means outbalance the massive loss buying power, and the skyrocketing rents here - don't even think, how much we've actually lost against the Euro in the last 4-5 years - i reckon, my salary went down some 25 % against the Euro in the meantime :*
- well - i've updated my CV and looking actively, like so many others now :rolleyes:

[chinawladi]

Yes to both last posts. The good thing is that on our side there's no rush, whereas the other side has to come up with something substantial qite rapidly. There is one outfit out there concockting a very good package for 2008, as i was told. It seems to target EK,EY and QR unhappies especially. Nothing specific to be able to pass on right now, but i'll follow up the moment i get it. I'm very sceptic, but hopeful!

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Jobs are out there ,if you apply be ready to jump ,the response times are faster than i have ever seen. There is actually f/o jobs that pay more than EK Captain salary..............................

[ratpoison]

Clueless,

Nice honest post mate, well said. Hopefully the folk about to head over for a job offer or interview will think long and very hard.

Rat

[Rabbitwear]

Just been offered a job back home, now how do i get outta here.........

[fatbus]

Just go to fleet and explain, they should help you out. Wife cant stand the place works good.

[donpizmeov]

Rebirthing (didn't hurt as much as I thought it would actually) a thread from 2005-2007. For those that think its just been a recent decent into the ooze for EK take a quick peek. I don't think anything new can be added now.


Its all been said before. If only they would have listened.

[Desert Camel]

Looking at threads like this and the youtube video series about the pilot shortage makes you wonder indeed. Nothing new!
If only.....