Aer Lingus

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
I have heard from a couple of sources that EI have written to their laid-off cadets of a few years ago, offering them direct-entry F/O seats. Anyone out there with something hard and fast to back this up? be real nice if they opened up again.
regards
TDD

[flyerire]

Many have found employment already either with other airlines or simply in different area's of work. Know a few guys myself who went to Cityjet as they have been hiring pretty agressively in Ireland in recent years. So it should be an interesting one to see if they can meet their requirements with just ex-cadets!

Maybe not too long (so i've heard from a source in the company) till the cadet program comes back. We can only hope and pray for wannabe's sake!:ok:

flyerire.

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
I doubt very much if a pure Cadet scheme ever returns to EI.They might be willing to take on low-timers but ab-initios,nah.Too expensive, too slow and too fussy to administer. Allegedly, they are looking for 55 bods, so wait and see...
regards
TDD

[flyerire]

55.....wow, that is a lot! Well, 9 new pilots for every new plane and then retiree's, i suppose. Do they have many order's/deliveries for next year apart from the 2 330's?

Regarding the Cadets, thats exactly what i thought when i heard the rumour too!! But apparently,

1. They are very keen to hire "Irish".
2. If they are taking low hours pilots, they prefer to have an input in their training also as they want only the best and so some type of semi-sponsored cadet scheme does not seem off the cards.

What we may see happening also is that the pilots who went to other airlines may be lured back to Aer Lingus and a lot of space will become available elsewhere but this may be unlikely unless the Aer Lingus offer is very good.

[november.sierra]

That's great news, if they don't come up with a new pay deal for new joiners, because the Aer Lingus package on offer to their current pilots including pension & benefits is supposed to be among the best in Europe.

Good news also that they want predominantly Irish pilots, I've always believed in looking after your own first, something which Irish and British airlines aren't usually very good at. At the risk of sparking this debate again, how many Irish pilots do you find in KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, etc.

[dlav]

This is great news, hopefully some of us low timers will get a look in:rolleyes:

[TolTol]

I’m not getting my hopes up. Knowing Aer Lingus they will have meaningless stupid aptitude tests. As if having a fATPL doesn't show that you have enough of an aptitude to be a pilot.

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
All over Europe, unofficial protectionism is the order of the day, so I don't see why Aer Lingus shouldn't indulge in a bit of it.There are plenty of non-Irish in EI already, so it can't be said that they haven't had a fair go at getting in. With regard to terms and conditions, I'd say that new comers would be offered lesser terms than the existing crowd, such as the pension scheme, as it stands now, being closed off to newbies. The existing Ts and Cs are among the best in Europe which is why the present pilots guard it jealously.As far as EI having an input into training, they would do that simply enough by doing the TR in-house.They already have a greatly-underused A320 simulator and I am led to believe that the pilot's union will oppose newbies having to fund their own TR, except only as a deduction from their wages.
Either way, it won't do any harm to tidy up the old CV and get it ready:D
regards
TDD

[EGAC_Ramper]

Excellent news and will most certainly keep me eyes open and ears to the ground.


Regards:ok:

[captwannabe]

We'll have to wait for the takeover aswell. Knowing the Irish govt. they will make a b*lls of it and drag out the proceedings. I heard that they recently recruited from CTC and FTE (although not running courses through them). A partial sponsorhip scheme would be great though, especially if just for Irish wannabes or those who speak the (sh*t) Irish language á la Air France/KLM with French/Dutch! Shouldn't really get my hopes up. BTW, has anyone heard if there are any major expansion plans, or will this have to wait until after the takeover? How many retirements will there be over the next few years?

[Shamrock 125]

captwannabe a chara,

cad atá cearr leis ár dteanga féin? is teanga an-shiumúil é má tá sé múinte go maith ach bfhéidir go raibh tusa ceann de na buachaillí dána ag caint agus déanamh ríraí agus ruallie buaille sa scoil nuair a bhí tú óg!

bíonn a lán doaine ar fud na tíre ábalta caint as Gaeilge agus tá bród orm a rá go bhfuil mé ceann de na daoine súid.

And by the way any irish speakers out there i apologise in advance for any gramatical errors! I just felt like showing off for once! Anyway continue with the thread...

[captwannabe]

A chara,
Is fuath liom an Ghaeilge! As béarla más é do thoil é.

Haven't a clue what you're on about boy! In my town we speak the Queen's English. Irish is dead - unless Aer Lingus wanted it as a requirement for a sponsorship scheme, in that case tá bród an domhain orm bheith ábalta caint as gaeilge! Scroggs will prob delete the Irish - English language forums. God save the Queen and all that! Enda Kenny for Taoiseach!

Please continue.........Ar aghaidh libh! :ok:

[scroggs]

Sadly, we don't have a Gaelic-language forum, though we have quite a few other languages.

The reason why most non-English language posts get deleted (or moved to an appropriate forum) is that if I can't understand what you say, then I can't moderate it. That could leave Pprune wide open to abuse. So, while I appreciate your desire to express yourself in your mother tongue, please don't do it here.

Scroggs

[conor_mc]

captwannabe a chara,
cad atá cearr leis ár dteanga féin? is teanga an-shiumúil é má tá sé múinte go maith ach bfhéidir go raibh tusa ceann de na buachaillí dána ag caint agus déanamh ríraí agus ruallie buaille sa scoil nuair a bhí tú óg!
bíonn a lán doaine ar fud na tíre ábalta caint as Gaeilge agus tá bród orm a rá go bhfuil mé ceann de na daoine súid.
And by the way any irish speakers out there i apologise in advance for any gramatical errors! I just felt like showing off for once! Anyway continue with the thread...

It's alright Scroggs, he's just pointing out that captwannabe might have been "head of the bold boys in school" talking and messing when he was young! :ok:

[johnrizzo2000]

with regards to the possible aerlingus cadet programme, some have said they may want people with 'low' hours. how many hours is counted as 'low'?

also, i like that some decided to add a bit to this forum, as gaeilge! an mhaith ar fad!

slan

[milehighdriver]

Yes, the company have written to the cadets asking if they would be willing to return. How many actually return is still up for debate. It's been a while since they were chopped, and by now alot would have settled elsewhere. The number of approx 50 pilots is correct, and that is due to the delivery of the A330's and another A320. I would say this is just the tip of the iceberg over the next few years. At the moment the airline is undercrewed and max duty hours are being reached on a regular basis. Hire-ins are a regular occurrence at the moment, due lack of crew or aircraft.
As regard a cadet scheme, I wouldn't count on that for a while, if any. The company needs pilots now, not tomorrow. It's far cheaper to hire a direct entry pilot (preferably type rated) rather than wait 18 months to get a cadet on line. As regard 'unofficial protectionism' , or being keen to hire Irish - er don't think so. Being Irish doesn't make you any better at the job or any more committed to Aer Lingus. They will want people who are competent and able to fit in.
Any new comer's will be on the same T & C's. Despite the company stating in the press recently, that all new entrants (not just pilots) will be on a defined contribution scheme. Mr Mannion has been told quite blunty that the pilots will walk the walk around the airport if he tries that stunt with the pilots. Unlike BALPA, IALPA has the forsight to realise the stupidity of caving in on the pension issue. By looking after new entrants, IALPA is ensuring that it remains one of the best.

[johnrizzo2000]

so how many hours , is 'low hour pilots'????????????????????

[celtic mech]

NOTICE TO PILOTS FROM CEO


Notice to Pilots from the CEO Notice to Pilots from the CEO
Notice to Pilots from the CEO
Rehire of former Cadet Pilots

As you are aware we have committed to the purchase of two additional A330 aircraft, which are due for delivery in 2007. In addition we are in the process of sourcing two more A320 aircraft. In the past number of weeks a comprehensive plan has been developed to address the training and resource requirements, and pilot numbers will be increasing in line with the growing fleet.
I am pleased to announce that we are now in a position to honour the commitment made to the former cadets in 2001. It is hoped that many will take up their positions with Aer Lingus in the coming months.
The Company will be initiating contact with this group starting today and training is scheduled to commence from July.
I am sure you will agree that this is a very positive development for Aer Lingus and we can look forward to welcoming the former cadets on to the line, as we work together to meet the exciting opportunities that lie ahead.



Dermot Mannion

CEO

[Shamrock 125]

Thanks for keeping the ole post there scroggs and as was said there was nothing malicious on it. you'd be surprised how many irish folk can speak their native tongue at least to a comprehendible level. an irish language forum would be welcome although i fear it would be under used.

As for the cadet programme. I do wish they would bring it back although i feel my eyes aren't up to scratch. its not going to stop me trying after my engineering degree though. until im told to sod off i'll keep trying.

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
Talking to some of the current jockeys today, one stated that he had been in contact with some of the ex-cadets and a rough reckoning of thirty or so out of the fifty-odd were willing to at least apply to come back.Just leave room for me, that's all I ask!:}
regards
TDD

[zooloflyer]

Times are finally changing!! Good news.:ok:

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
Latest I've heard is that the ex-cadets are being interviewed over the next few days, with a view to a course date in June.IALPA are said to be trying to get EI to start them on the equivalent of Year 5 pay and conditions,which is not going down well with some of the established heads...Don't suppose there's any chance of Mannion contacting all the laid-off engineer apprentices and rehiring them on such generous terms?:rolleyes:
regards
TDD

[johnrizzo2000]

those cadets are soo lucky!!! come on EI, start a new cadet programme! Even an easyjet/ flybe style programme!!!!!!!!!!!:)

[captwannabe]

those cadets are soo lucky!!! come on EI, start a new cadet programme! Even an easyjet/ flybe style programme!!!!!!!!!!!:)

Yes, please do! This time next year! And bring in language requirements like most other EU state airlines! Irish will be an official EU language next year aswell!

[d2k73]

I wonder if i got in contact and told them Im starting training for my fATPL next month, and that i would pay for my training would they give me a job!!?

[cheekycapt]

I hope EI start a new cadet programme for all those young Irish wannabes including myself ! Since they have not recruited since Sept 11th alot of young wannabes with potentional have missed out and now they will have their chance of fulfilling their lifelong dream. I think they will but this time next year ! It will be a green version of the Easyjet cadet programme though ! Fingers crossed in the meantime !

[TolTol]

From what I hear there's little chance of a cadet scheme starting in the near future. Even if it was going to start, I would not be relying on it as I think its easier to win the lotto than get on the cadet scheme!!

[RogerIrrelevant69]

captwannabe,

Good suggestion. Not only will that keep out Johnny Foreigner, if properly applied and tested (by Gael Linn at the very least) it should exclude about 80% of the Republic's population too thereby reducing the number of future applicants to about 10.

[captwannabe]

captwannabe,

Good suggestion. Not only will that keep out Johnny Foreigner, if properly applied and tested (by Gael Linn at the very least) it should exclude about 80% of the Republic's population too thereby reducing the number of future applicants to about 10.

Ah now, I didn't mean they had to be fluent Irish speakers or to be able to write grammatically correct Irish. But, they should be able to pass the higher level Leaving Cert exam.

I think it is possible they will start a scheme through CTC. They have already hired a few CTC graduates, and it won't cost them anything until they hire the cadets.

[johnrizzo2000]

i think having leaving cert irish wouldnt be such a bad idea, as part of the cadet programme requirements! but thats just me, and also because i can speak irish!!! you need spanish for iberia, lets have it so you need irish for aerlingus! it'll make the whole airline greener!

[cheekycapt]

Captwannabe I can see where you are coming from with your idea but I dont think it would be fair ! Gaeigle is the worst thought language in our Secondary Schools today ! I spent 14yrs learning the language and I still cannot figure the bloody thing out ! I spent 6 learning French and I am very good at French ! Goes to show how badly thought Gaeilge actually is ! Fewer and Fewer students are doing Honours Irish for the Leaving Cert simply because its too hard and there are very few teachers out there who can actually teach the language properly !

Slan !

[jumbo-clingfilm]

spanish for iberia

irish for aer lingus

german for lufthansa

anything for UK carriers

[RogerIrrelevant69]

cheekycapt,

Wasn't just me then! How many hours of my life did I spend listening (or not as the case may be) to that bloody language being shoved down my throat year after year. Back in my day you had pass the bugger in the Leaving to actually get an overall pass (whatever the hell that meant). The fact that I and a good number of my school buddies could ace every maths and science subject under the sun was irrelevant to the Gaeilge mafia who ran the Dept. of Education back in those days.

Ironic thing is now I would actually like to be able to speak Gaeilge. But any thoughts like that when I was a youth were beaten out of me through utter tedium.

Good old days my arse.

Anyway for you youngsters out there I'm sure no such barrier will appear. The last time Aer Lingus recruited I believe they did actually employ one or two non-Irish residents. But the vast majority were from Ireland (north and south).

[A38lephant]

Hi Captwannabe
"I think it is possible they will start a scheme through CTC. They have already hired a few CTC graduates, and it won't cost them anything until they hire the cadets."
Just wondering what your source for this info is? I didn't realise they were signed up to CTC. :ok:

[captwannabe]

cheekycapt,

I completely understand your point of view. I have been learning Irish for almost 13 years so far, and French for 6 years (learned a bit in Primary School). I am unable to use the Irish language properly, but if I'm lucky I might get a B in LCHL next year (what a joke of a subject!). I can understand French much better, Irish just isn't a practical language. But, if they required cadets to have LC Irish even at ordinary level, it would be a good thing. It would/should never have to be spoken when working for Aer Lingus.

A38lephant,

They're not signed up to CTC, but when they were looking for pilots, they went to both CTC and FTE (not sure about Oxford). Check out their websites and you'll see. BA and a number of other airlines have acted similarly.

[TolTol]

I don't think Irish should be a requirement. Spanish is the primary language in Spain; German is the primary language in Germany. Irish is what in Ireland? A language that’s forced upon primary and secondary school students and that’s not used in most parts of Ireland. Would be very unfair I think as it would rule out a lot of good pilots from entering Aer Lingus. Saying Irish is the same as Spanish or German just isn’t right.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for our national language, I just don't think it should be forced upon people to learn.

Just my thoughts (and no I can't put two words together in Irish, but I can fly a plane...).

[captwannabe]

TolTol,

I don't think that it should be forced on people. But, since it is a statutory requirement of our education system, and it will be an official EU language next year, if Aer Lingus required cadets to pass Irish for Leaving Cert, then our national airline would be hiring young Irish nationals. I'm not saying that Irish should be spoken on the flight deck! English is the language of aviation.

[captwannabe]

On the FTO's websites, it says that Aer Lingus have recruited from these schools. I don't know exactly when they were hired, but if they have hired from these places in the past, and are looking for pilots now...................

[Silver Tongued Cavalier]

The last group of around 30 Direct Entry Pilots recruited into EI was mid 2000, all from a wide variety of backgrounds and experience. Some were recruited directly from Oxford (self sponsored) as that was where EI had all its 37 cadets at the time.

The other DE's ranged from Airline TRE's, Capts and FO's, Air Corps, RAF, USAF, General Aviation, and fresh out of various training schools!!! All of whom able to speak varying dialects of Irish! ;)

[dlav]

Can anybody give any figures what a newbee at EI could expect to take home? Or any info on the T+C's in general? Whats life at EI like?

Cheers
dlav

[captwannabe]

I see what you're saying now.

If your a wannabe, seriously "Don't believe what you read". I'm an FTE lad and they ain't recruiting from them. Last FTE heard from them was 2001 (five years ago, sooner than Oxford or CTC, but all the same 5yrs).

You really came out of the blue with your comments before, but seriously, the schools are about getting money. They will put up anything, one person reads it, likes it, €100,000. Ya Know.

Good School FTE though.

Scenic.

Yeah, I should have made it clearer earlier. Still a wannabe, and I'm not believing everything I read! I'm really interested in going to FTE (or CTC/sponsorship if at all possible). I heard of a guy from Cork who got a job with Easy straight after training with FTE. Are you out there now? What are/were your impressions of the training? Did you have much experience before you went there? Send me a PM if you want, this is going off on a tangent.

[Telstar]

A few facts before everyone goes mental.

The company are trying to recall cadets from 2001. Some of these cadets are Captains in other airlines by now, some are F/Os some quit aviation completely. My Ialpa rep tells me that the company is trying to give them much revised T&Cs especially regarding pensions(They won't get the final pension salary). The Union says no way.

Irish protectionism/Prefer Irish/Irish speakers, whatever. Its bull****, I am sorry to dissapoint Irish wannabess. I don't fly into Dublin that often but I can tell you from the RT when I do go there and the Aer Lingus Drivers I meet in the waiting area in the Mater for my medicals, I have met plenty of Scots and English Boys and Girls who got in on the cadet programme for example.

I very much doubt that there will ever be a sponsored cadet programme ever again in the same vain as the BA/Aer Lingus ones ever again. You should never say never, but never! Aer lingus has made huge changes to imitate the Ryanairs of this world.

I do hope as a recent ex-Lowtimer/job seeker that they do take on Low Timers, and those on the bottom rung get a look in. Best of luck.

[TolTol]

Well said Telstar.:ok:

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
I was having a jar with one of those lucky cadets, who expects to start his course in June.Priority will be the cadets,survivors of.After that, experienced guys, if there's any out there who want to come home...:(
regards
TDD

[mach daddy]

Lads i was wondering if any of you could give me an insight into what EI might be looking for in a low houred-fatpl,apart from the basic requirements.

I'd be interested to know how far back they go,god knows the ould leaving cert could have been better!Also,had to repeat a couple of the atpl theory exams and was wondering if this would affect my application.

I'm confident that my flying ability is up to scratch,but unlike some of the other guys that might apply,I don't have a degree and am afraid my c.v will be inadequete compared to others.Maybe a few hundred hours instructor time would help in the long run.Would love to hear any opinions,ta!

Don't even joke about the requirement being able to speak as gaeilge :eek: .....mine's shameful at best.

[jamesiek]

Most airlines specify a degree these days especially if you are a low hours pilot, simply to reduce the number of applications that they need to go through.

Obviously if you have been a Captain for 20 years with x thousand hours then this may not be so important but nowadays, it seems a degree is a minimal standard for low-hours recruits.

However not having a degree does not mean you have no chance, just those with a degree and similar experience will have a beeter chance at employment all other things being equal.

Hope that helps somewhat!

[Telstar]

Most airlines specify a degree these days especially if you are a low hours pilot,

jamesiek, What are you on about?. You must read a different jobs section, of a different flight international magazine. I have never once seen a job advert specifying a degree.

I'd like you to quote me a specific source word for word, or I am not interested!

[jamesiek]

Sorry Telstar, might have come across the wrong way......what i mean is that if you are up against a number of low hour pilots and all of you have similar flying experience then they will look for something else to differentiate you from the rest. ie a degree. This is when it may be very useful.

I have actually seen one advertisement somewhere specifying third level education (for an Asian carrier if i remember correctly), but yes it is a rarity alright. Perhaps we will see it requested more in the future as the pool of low hours pilots grows and Airlines struggle to differentiate between them???? Might not be a bad idea!:8

It would also have relevance in terms of applying to a cadet scheme, but talking about that in this thread would not be relevant.:=

[TolTol]

I have heard that Aer Lingus like third-level education more than flying experience.

I have also heard from a very good source that a degree is a big bonus when applying for any flying job. But this isn't the place to start another degree requirement argument as I think people are very biased when it comes to deciding whether or not a degree is required.

[jamesiek]

Similar source we have TolTol perhaps!!!:)

At least somebody agrees with me on that.

Would love to go into the reasoning behind it but its definitly another thread!!!:=

[corsair]

What TolTol said was true, EI loved degrees for their cadets no matter how irrelevant they were. But there won't be cadets this time. That was then and this is now. Back in the good old days with the economy shot, people with degrees coming out of their ears had to emigrate to get a decent job and Aer Lingus seemed an attractive option. Every job was oversubscribed and competitive. Not any more.
I've heard the figure of 100 pilots been required (rumours, rumours). Obviously the ex cadets will get the first preference but after that who knows. One thing for sure there will be no more cadet sponsorship. If anything it will be like the Ryanair/Cityjet idea, they select you and you pay 100k for your training. Most likely though they will be taking rated pilots or turboprop (Aer Arann) pilots and low timers just out of flight school. This is good news for everyone concerned. They will probably take people from other airlines thus opening vacancies for others to fill. In the meantime Aer Arann just bought ten new ATR's and will need more pilots for them and to replace those lost to Lingus, Easy, Ryan et al.
So if you want to fly for EI or anybody, go out and get trained and stop waiting for the mythical cadetships to return.
As for preferential treatment for Irish pilots, certainly I believe they would like Irish pilots simply because and Irish pilot is more likely to stay around for a while once he has bought his pad in Swords or Malahide. That is probably true of most Irish airlines except Ryanair. The same could be said of most airlines in other countries. Others are more likely to move on if a vacancy comes up in their home country or in the 'worlds favourite airline'. But don't imagine being Irish will allow you to meet a lower standard. EI were always fussy, unnecessarily so in my opinion. It remains to be seen as to what they look for. They will get applications simply because it's Aer Lingus, mine being one. But we will have to wait and see.
In practice though, from what I've seen there are simply not enough Irish wannabees coming down the pipe. The combined efforts of the JAA and the IAA have seen to that. So there are opportunities for everyone particularly British willing to make the move across the water. If you are Irish and qualified there has never been a better time to get the airline job in Ireland and I mean never. Every Irish airline seems to be recruiting. If you don't get the job this time you are simply not good enough. Give it up and go back to IT or whatever you did before.:) ;) ;) ;) ;) edited :=

[dlav]

Without intending to spark off a debate here, and I really mean this, do you think they will have any preference to integrated grads from FTE/OAT etc than modular guys with the same 250hrs?

Or would they even consder guys with only 250hrs?

dlav


JAA ATPL - £40,000 TO £70,000
CAA Medical - £300
Type Rating - £20,000
Medical/Life insurance - £500

Modular/Integrated Debates - PRICELESS!!!!! :ok:

[cheekycapt]

Jamesiek i find it very hard to believe that EI like all their recruits to have degrees ! Willie Walsh joined the company at 17yrs old and all he had was a Leaving Cert !

[jamesiek]

Possibly when Willy Walsh joined, Degree's were not held in as much respect as they are now with EI.

Besides i did not say they were essential, all i am saying is that they will definitely give you an advantage over applicants that do not have a degree. That is from the horses mouth!!

[speedrestriction]

Jamesiek:
they will definitely give you an advantage over applicants that do not have a degree. That is from the horses mouth!!
I don't agree with that, then again I don't talk to farmyard animals:hmm:
You seem to have forgotten that Aer Lingus is not the same airline it was five or ten years ago.

Corsair:
Aer Arann just bought ten new ATR's and will need more pilots for them and to replace those lost to Lingus, Easy, Ryan et al.
From what I understand some of the older ATRs will be phased out so it is not like there are going to be a huge number RHS positions coming up.
And as for
Every Irish airline seems to be recruiting. If you don't get the job this time you are simply not good enough. Give it up and go back to IT or whatever you did before.
Shame on you. That is just plain insulting and devalues the effort and sacrifices that so many wannabes have made and continue to make. This is a forum for people who are trying to better themselves, and isn't the place to make snide, undermining remarks anonymously.
Put the brain in gear before you post next time.
sr

[scroggs]

There are a few people on this thread who seem to be posting because they like reading their own drivel in electronic print. Ubfortunately, they neither have the experience or knowledge to justify or give credence to most of what they have to say.

For information on the relevance of degrees to airline employers, check the Archive sticky on 'Wannabes - Pro Pilot Training'. For information on discriminatory employment practices (such as 'preferring Irish pilots') see any lawyer specialising in EU Employment Law.

Scroggs

[jamesiek]

Ok,

I am not trying to say that a 22 year old straight out of Oxford etc with a degree will get a job ahead of a Captain from eg....Cityjet with 2000+ hours but without a degree. What i am saying (and have in previous posts :ugh: ) is that if 2 low hour cadets with similar flying experience apply for 1 position, then if 1 of the cadets holds a university qualification eg a degree then he is without doubt more likely to get the job! That is the case in any industry! :ok:



Scroggs, many of those surveys regarding what airlines prefer only studied a very select group of companies and were not always specifically adreesed in terms on cadet/low hour applicants ( i do stand to be corrected here, but thats what i gathered from the few i have read!).
Either way, surely if a number of equally qualified pilots apply for the same position, then anything you have which can differentiate you from the bunch is highly beneficial????

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
A degree holder will be given the same amount of consideration as a non-degree holder. All aspects of a potential pilot's education and achievement will be considered.Traditionally, when EI recruited cadets, they wanted them to have very little accumulated flight time.In the last intake of DE pilots, there was every size and shape of educational qualifications.The sim check is where fellas will get weeded out.
regards
TDD:rolleyes:

[corsair]

[Corsair:
Aer Arann just bought ten new ATR's and will need more pilots for them and to replace those lost to Lingus, Easy, Ryan et al.
From what I understand some of the older ATRs will be phased out so it is not like there are going to be a huge number RHS positions coming up.
And as for
Every Irish airline seems to be recruiting. If you don't get the job this time you are simply not good enough. Give it up and go back to IT or whatever you did before.
Shame on you. That is just plain insulting and devalues the effort and sacrifices that so many wannabes have made and continue to make. This is a forum for people who are trying to better themselves, and isn't the place to make snide, undermining remarks anonymously.
Put the brain in gear before you post next time.
sr

Relax willya, for goodness sake. It was not meant to be taken that seriously. I should have put in a smilie or two. :ugh: ;) :) I dunno some people, mutter mutter, no sense of humour.:rolleyes:


But I do think there will be at least some RHS in Arann not least because I am quite sure one or two will defect to EI.

[Strepsils]

Telstar - A few facts before everyone goes mental.

The company are trying to recall cadets from 2001. .....the company is trying to give them much revised T&Cs especially regarding pensions(They won't get the final pension salary).

Suggest you check your facts, 'cause these are wrong;)

[Telstar]

Strepsils,
No I don't believe that your right. I am sorry if you disagree I can only tell you what the man from Ialpa told me. Wether the company will get away with it in the face of Union opposition is another matter. Cheers.

[TheRedVonBaron]

Telstar I believe the cadets will be on the same terms and conditions as current lot.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/0518/aerlingus.html

[TolTol]

Has anybody heard any new info on when Aer Lingus might be recruiting? Are we talking weeks or months?

[captwannabe]

Have a look in Terms and Endearment.

[CarbHeatIn]

Apparently 5 or 6 of the recently returned cadets have had to be sent off to Oxford for remedial training in order to revalidate their Licences.

What does this say about the motivation of these individuals? These people were given the best training the industry has to offer, for free, and have proceeded to walk away from all flying for 5 years. Surely if these individuals are so motivated to become professional pilots they would at least have stayed current?

[potkettleblack]

Hold on a moment there. You are making a few assumptions.

- you assume that they had the cash to go off and do some flying. Remember one of the main reasons people go for sponsored schemes is to save coin. I wonder how many people could raise some cash for a flying course post 9/11?

- many of these chaps and chappesses will have been young wannabees. Perhaps when they were offered a sponsorsip they dropped out of university or gave up building a career and then found after they were let go that they had missed the boat. How do you know that some of them didn't end up as labourers on the bones of their butts?

- they had as close to a contract of employment as you can get and that was taken away from them. They took up a legal right to be reemployed when opportunities came about and there was nothing that said that they had to keep themselves current in the meantime.

- They were also training during one of the darkest periods in the industrys history so maybe they made a calculated decision to put aside their training until things got better? How many wannabees actually go through that thought process? Hardly any, which is why you read countless stories on pprune of banks about to foreclose cos little timmy went off and got into hock to train and had no idea, no smarts, no contacts to get a job at the end.

You clearly have a grudge or missed out on the cadet scheme. Good on them I say and what a great airline Aer Lingus must be for honouring their promise/contract of bringing them back.

[INLAK]

....what a great airline Aer Lingus must be for honouring their promise/contract of bringing them back.

If Aer Lingus had their way, the cadets would have been out the door permanently 5 years ago. The fact that they can return is all thanks to IALPA's insistence that they be given first choice of refusal before any outside recruiting occurs.

[TheRedVonBaron]

So, just under 90 per cent of the cadets managed to get themselves a job. Thats not a bad statistic considering the job market after sept 11th is it??

I believe its not fair that you condemn these guys that didnt remain current. You dont know these guys personal circumstances. As mentioned above some guys may have decided to return to college as their had no other qualifications or on the hand guys may have had the opportunity to return to well paid jobs they left to become less well off cadets. Also, being an airline pilot may not have been the only goal in the lives of these cadets. Willie Walsh was a cadet and look at him now.

Now that these guys are been given a chance to go back (some with new college degrees and some more financially secure), they themselves are in a better position if the industry goes tits up again!

Manfred

[CarbHeatIn]

I am not condemning these people. I am questioning their motivation.

The dogs in the streets have known for the last 18 to 24 months that EI is facing a pilot shortage and that the recall of all those on leave of absence and the recall of the Cadets was imminent.

With a bit of foresight and preperation these guys could have been well prepared and set to get through their 320 courses smoothly. Instead they are well off the pace (understanable after 5 years) and in the words of an EI Captain, "will struggle to get on line". They will have all the time in the world for College and alternative careers if thats how things work out. Which would be a crying shame as it was so avoidable.

Hopefully its just speculation on the Captains' part and that these people do go on to have rewarding careers with Aer Lingus.

The same Captain was of the opinion that when EI do start to hire outsiders that it will be for Airbus rated people.

[TwoDeadDogs]

hi all
I totally support CarbHeat In's assertion that any laid-off cadet should have made some effort to keep his license current during the lay-off period.After all, most of them did, without question, knowing instinctively that to do so upped their odds of getting a fresh start. Given the fact that they had already consumed many thousands of other peoples' money, with no impact on their own pockets, it wouldn't have hurt to cough up a few quid and maintain at least a basic level of currency.After all, I'd expect an interview board to ask them if they had kept up the flying.It shows a distinct lack of motivation.Bear in mind that EI laid off two years worth of apprentice engineers and then had to contract in engineers from Shannon Aerospace to fill the gap.No such recall awaits those luckless apprentices, who ended up, in some cases, having to start all over again with new employers.Some of them gave up aviation.Those cadets who got recalled are having jam on both sides, with a level of union protection that is the envy of the industry.Quite frankly, if an ex-cadet came to me and said that he hadn't flown in five years, I'd show him the door...
regards
TDD

[dartagnan]

5 years no fly, gosh, thats a lot...when i think u can get a plane for 50$ /hour in the USA and fly a little bit...these guys are not motivated at all..

[Callsign Kilo]

A month or two ago there was a lot of hype regarding Aer Lingus recalling their cadets which had been sent through the likes of OAT and FTE pre 9/11.

Is there any update from anyone who was in that position or from any wannabee who had been called for an interview? Or has the unsettlement caused by O'Leary's attempt to buy the Irish flag carrier put a hold on future plans?

Plus, if anyone can answer, 1.) does Aer Lingus have any affiliation with Parc?
2.) do they have a preference for Irish pilots or Irish based crew?

Thanks CK

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Some have decided not to answer the call due to the uncertainty. Some have decided to go for it anyway.

It looks like MOL will not be able to effect a takeover of Lingus. Nevertheless there are questions hovering over the next 2, 5 and 10 years that weren't there prior to flotation.

I believe Lingus are very understanding of the situation.

They would seem to be needing to recruit small numbers of new pilots in the next 12 months. If that's any consolation.

Cheers

WWW

[liffy2A]

Aerlingus has some of the cadets pre 9/11 back training since August. Also I heard a rumour that the Eirjet pilots have been offered contract work for them.Anyone have anymore on this?

[Callsign Kilo]

Aerlingus has some of the cadets pre 9/11 back training since August. Also I heard a rumour that the Eirjet pilots have been offered contract work for them.Anyone have anymore on this?

Forgot about Eirjet!! Would make perfect sense for EI to 'fill in the gaps' with already rated and experienced A320 Dublin based crew. Eirjet's demise can only work in Aer Lingus's favour if they are requiring pilots

[drix51]

Just a little point here, the Cadets sent back to Oxford for a weeks re-training were current and had been flying in general aviation over the last five years. Their motivation shouldn't be questioned by people who don't know the facts.

[fms_fail]

Well i have to agree with Drix.... I am only too familar with the guys who went back to Oxford... They were current, but the point of their return to Oxford was reasons better known to Aer Lingus in assisting the guys return back into their training program....Mo-sey :cool:

[moggiee]

Giving the ex-cadets a refresher makes a lot of sense. A few quid spent giving them some time in aeroplanes (or better an MCC type sim) will allow them to hit the ground running when they get to the type rating. I trained a lot of these cadets at FTE and they only got a 20 hour MCC rather than a 40+ hour JOC - so they don't have the same level of training to fall back on as some other did. 5 years was along time ago and standards drift, too - most pilots will pick up many bad habits in 5 years and a little refresher/standardisation training will go a long way.

Think how much it costs for 4 hours remedial training on an A320 full-flight sim during a type rating - taking up valuable time at an expensive TR training centre with a training Captain. Compare that to an extra few days training in an FNPT2 MCC device at an FTO such as OAT or FTE and you can see the savings to be had.

BA tried to give their cadets a few sim rides in the BAC 111 sim when they were kicking their heels in the early 90s after the first punch up with Saddam Hussein. Any brush up before a TR helps - and all credit to an airline that is sensible enough to spend a few Pounds/Euros to save many more.

[Vortex Thing]

There are a few people on this thread who seem to be posting because they like reading their own drivel in electronic print. Ubfortunately, they neither have the experience or knowledge to justify or give credence to most of what they have to say.
For information on the relevance of degrees to airline employers, check the Archive sticky on 'Wannabes - Pro Pilot Training'. For information on discriminatory employment practices (such as 'preferring Irish pilots') see any lawyer specialising in EU Employment Law.
Scroggs

Is that why Flybe seems to have an entire fleet of ex Scabair Instructors aged 24 going on 12! I think that the law though present and correct in the case stated has little meanig when no one is really going to sue and airline for not interviewing them for fear of being balcklisted (unofficialy of course)

Just about every airline in this and most other countries employs a completely and blatant unofficial discriminatory policy. There are numerous airlines still not interviewing canidates over the age of 28, 32, 34 or 35, even CTC were doing it up until the last second before 1 Oct 06 when the new law came in and expressley forbids this!! I get the feeling that there will not suddenly be a rush of 45 year old pilots to go CTC ATP scheme, wings scheme or going to Flybe now will there.

[Airbus Jockey]

Well?

Will be very interesting if it is!

http://www.parcaviation.aero/aviation/FlightcrewJobsDetail.asp?id=3228

[CLEAR4T/O]

It sure is!!!!

Fingers crossed, would be a great start....:)

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Hi All,

I have done a search on this, however, only very little came up. I was wondering whether anyone has any information on the Aer Lingus recruitment process?

Thanks in advance.

[average bloke]

apparently if you sound like barry white you're in. although the last batch all had hair, or so i've been told.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Well thank you Avergage Bloke.

Looks like I have a chance, but not sure about the latter, unless I invest in some transplant hair surgery :).

I will see you soon senaca/B737 king :ok:.

[Mondeoman]

I have an interview with Aer Lingus in 10 days time, for a ist officer A320. Can anyone give me a heads up on what to expect? Does anyone know what aircraft they use for their sim rides? Any advice gratefully received!

[Dent Collector]

I suspect it's on the 320 sim because they've got their own in Dublin. Sorry don't know anything about the interview.

[FO JimmieJames]

Has anyone been for an interview/sim check with Aer Lingus lately? Any info would be hughly appreciate! Any tricky questions or sim situations?

[dlav]

Anybody?...........................

[FO JimmieJames]

Hello All,

I have been invited to sit the sim check ride at Aer Lingus. I am already type rated. Has anyone (type rated), been on the sim check for Aer Lingus? Would appreciate a heads up just so that I can do some arm chair practice. Any information greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[suasdaguna]

don't worry about the sim check...type rating is all they want.

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
If you have a TR, they will give you a sim check to the appropriate level, such as several departures off Rwy 28 in Dublin, at least one of which will have a V1 cut.You may also get an engine fire in flight or an electrical fault in flight.You will get ILSs to 28,some with full automation, some without.you will spend at least an hour in the sim.Persons without a TR but with line experience will get a good work out, including such delights as a non-automatic VOR approach to RWY 16 at EIDW and plenty of ILSs to 28.Handling exercise include steep turns, accels/decels, climbs and descents.Non-TR, non-line experienced will get an abbrieviated version of above.A comprehensive briefing will be given in advance.You will be told how you have done within a few days.If you get the offer,everything will happen fairly quickly thereafter.
regards
TDD

[Shinty]

It seems like my fellow Galwegian got a better offer with the big toys. Tell me mightycelt how did you tell the big 'P' that you weren't going with them. I'd loved to have been a fly on the wall for that one....

[the flying scotsman1]

I have hust been invited to aer lingus Interview as F/o, I am typed on the A320, any 1 tell me about technical questions asked for rated pilots. any aptitude tests etc. any info would be great. Was told that many technical questions are asked but nobody knows what on. any help will be appreciated.:ugh:

[fonz77]

I know Aer Lingus are taking oxford students, but is there any other school they have a preference for when selecting low hour, non type rated candidates. Or is there even a preference.
Coming towards the end of training and would love a chance with EI.
Cheers

[Blinkz]

just wondering how long people have been waiting after sim check to hearing back from aer lingus? I've been hearing from a cpl of days to a week?

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hello all
I got the PFO phonecall after the interview/aptitude tests.
Ta Bron orm.:(
regards
TDD:sad:

[iae2500]

What was your experience TDD?
What is the general experience of guys going in??? is the A320 pool dried up? I have a mate that starts soon and he waited about 7 working days for a reply "positive reply" and he was experienced on type and a dub, so he was in a good place, but i gather from this thread and other stories that there is representatives from Ezy/Arann/Ryan and elsewhere all in the running for these sopts, Its a much sort after position if your an irish lad no doubt.

[donny brasco]

How long do you normally have to wait to hear from them after you have done the interview. If unsuccessful do you normally get a letter or do they ring you in person?

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
I met a lot of Oxfordites during the process and they are well regarded in EI.The influx from FR/RE/WX is happening but all shapes and sizes are being taken on(typed/non-typed,etc).The HR dept are not exactly consistent in telling you yes or no but generally within a few days.
regards
TDD

[dartagnan]

call them, ask them or you will shop somewhere else!!!

all airlines are hiring...

[dlav]

Two Dead Dogs, sorry to hear that mate, always next time ah? :ok:

Did many of the oxford guys not make it?

dlav

[TwoDeadDogs]

hi there
latest I've heard is that they have taken on 96 pilots, either Oxford-ites, Jerezites or TR/NTR experienced guys.Whether that includes the ex-cadets, I dont know.The recruitment will close, so Im told, in about a fortnight.
regards
TDD

[CarbHeatIn]

They've taken low hours people from Aero Madrid also. Primarily because they've done their MCC on A-320.

They've also interviewed low hours modular from elsewhere to the schools already mentioned but not sure if any have been accepted

[Jumbito]

People from Aero Madrid??Spaniards or students from UK?

I´ve sent my CV 3 Weeks ago and no answer yet with A320 TR and 600TT.

I suppose all options are gone since you said that they are closing the recruitment in few days...:ugh:

Anyway regards everybody and good luck for those joining the interviews!:ok:

[Blinkz]

The selection process seems a little strange to me. I finished selection 2 weeks ago and have been waiting ever since. Found out today I'm on hold, whatever that means and that I should hear next week sometime. Quite a few people who finished selection after me have all gotten jobs so its a little confusing. I think all the interviews and tests went fine. All I can do now is wait! Fingers crossed.

[Blinkz]

anyone heard anything else recently?

[dartagnan]

no,sent my cv 2-3 weeks ago...nothing.not even a reply. and I am type rated on the 320.

[potkettleblack]

Maybe they read your rantings on pprune and decided to give you a wide berth:)

[CamelhAir]

Word has it that the quality of the "rated with just base check" types wasn't quite what has wanted. Seems this type of pilot has been badly discredited within the training department. Seems Ei's standards are rather higher than ryr's.
So says the grapevine.

[FO JimmieJames]

I completed my sim check 3 weeks ago. Have not had any answer. I phoned and they said all training slots are filled for this year! Otherwise I take it that I am on hold. I mean if they didn't want me they would write or phone or even e-mail right? The communication on their part is a bit hard to get ones head around . . . I think they are still using telepathy but I'm not too good at that. I am an e-mail, telephone kind of guy who is just looking for a staight answer as to the outcome of my application.