Seneca College Program [Archive]

CUB181

10th Jan 2007, 20:46

CUB181,

I'm not a Seneca graduate, so I wouldn't know about the course.

I have flown with numerous Seneca graduates in my 30+ years in the industry. I can honestly say they are some of the smartest pilots I have had the pleasure to fly with. They seem to be trained well.

If you decide on Seneca, I hope to fly with you before I retire.

Cheers,

ex-beagle

I have already decide on Seneca now its up to them to accept me:ok: .

I've heard that it is a good school, and you get no summers off which I find very good; contrary to other people. A summer flying means hard work and lots of time to learn what I've always wanted to.

You sound like a very nice person and I thank you for your comments regarding Seneca students. I also hope to fly with you and meet you some time in life before an "odd" number take you away from flying.

you take care and thanks for the feedback

Dockjock

17th Jan 2007, 16:33

CUB181

18th Jan 2007, 14:00

Things may have changed, but in the past high school GPA was not a factor in being accepted. All candidates were given a math test and acceptance was based on your score on the test.

Anyhow I went to Seneca and I found it to be a very good program. Frustrating while I was in it, but after the fact I came to appreciate just how comprehensive it was. The things I learned there have definitely been more helpful since entering the "airline" world...not so much for those first couple of jobs in the "bush" world, however. In my opinion it should be considered amongst the top aviation programs in North America.

I don't know about the high school GPA but I kinda agree with you about it, the program's web site doesn't say anything about the marks needed. However, a math and an english test are needed to past, as you said, prior to enter. I've only heard good things about Seneca and right now I'm very enthusiastic about it, I'm only 2 weeks away from finishing high school.

Just as a side note, I had to fill my College Aplication with more than 1 option so I get my money's worth. My first option was Seneca, then Sault, and finally Confederation..all to the flight program. What do you guys think?

For Universities I applied for Waterloo's Science and Aviation, and Western's Management and Aviation. How are this programs? other than being very but very expensive. Although my dad and family are dying for me to go to university..Seneca is my top choice. Man I dream about it everynight this is so important for me, and means a heck of a lot!!

thanks for the feedback

Glorified Donkey

19th Jan 2007, 02:40

The training doesnt matter, you will learn more in your first flying job than you will in all the training that you did. Training just covers the basics, now to make you a great pilot, you need the experience.

wannabepilot1531

19th Jan 2007, 04:03

CUB181 -

Those 5 schools are the exact ones ill be applying to next year... but i think my first shoice will be Sault. Any graduates/students on here from the soo? Care to lend some advice? marks needed? thanks.

Fingersmac

19th Jan 2007, 18:04

Captain_ian

20th Jan 2007, 05:05

Hi,
I used to be in Toronto and thought about the Seneca aviation program too.
When i went online and did some research on flight school in Canada, I searched Coastal Pacific Aviation.
If you look at their course outline. it's a really good and challenging program.
Also, you can get a degree of B.B.A. in aviation too.
I'm in the program now and i'd say it's been a good experience so far!

Fingersmac

20th Jan 2007, 05:46

Maple Leafs

20th Jan 2007, 08:47

CUB181

20th Jan 2007, 15:39

WOW.. $75K for the degree program at Coastal Pacific! Am I reading that right?

If so that's incredible. How do people afford that? I thought Seneca was expensive at $40K!

Sault Ste Marie College, diploma and flight training (CPL - MIFR) = ~$13K

Confederation College, diploma and flight training (CPL - Float rating) = ~$8K

If you're deciding on an aviation college, at least try to see if you can get in to one of the subsidized ones first. Confederation's program was under-subscribed this year which means they pretty much accepted everyone who applied.

The reasons for Seneca and Coastal Pacific's high price is because you are also getting a degree. You are paying for both the training and the degree at the same time.

to user maple leaf:

I wish you were wrong, but you are not. Times have indeed changed, and not for better. I won't be paying a cent out of my pocket for any of this programs because I don't have the money for it. I'm applying for an student loan because that's the only way I can afford my post secondary education. Not sure about whether they'll give all the money but, at least it's worth a try!

Fingersmac

20th Jan 2007, 17:15

Actually at Seneca the flight training is subsidized by the Ontario government so in affect you're only paying for tuition. This is why the program is only $40K not $75K like other aviation degree programs.

What you have to realize is that the degree you obtain from Seneca is an Applied Technology Degree which is not practical for anything outside aviation. It's fine if you're able to pursue a lifelong career in aviation but what if you lose your medical or want a career change (for whatever reason)?

You must also realize that your degree will have no bearing on your first few jobs in aviation and the same could be said about the aviation diplomas received from Sault and Confederation. Instructor, dock, ramp or entry level flying positions, in most cases, don't require post secondary education. Skills and personality are really what most employers are interested in. There are a few operators that do require an aviation diploma/degree like North Wright Aviation but most do not. Another thing to consider is that entry level positions in aviation pay very poorly and it can be difficult to manage a heavy debt load.

Another option would be to graduate from Sault or Confederation, and while working your first few jobs and obtaining aviation experience and flight time, attend university part time through correspondence. Both programs at Sault and Confederation will get you a one year credit at the University of Athabasca towards a Bachelor in Business Admin. You can complete your degree in your spare time in a non-industry specific program which will allow you to have something to fall back on if you are unable to fulfill a career in aviation.

I'm not bashing anyones choice in program or trying to change anyones mind; I'm just offering up suggestions and opinions based on the information I collected when I was deciding what options I had for flight training.

Chuck Ellsworth

21st Jan 2007, 00:42

How the industry has changed is amazing, when I first started flying I could barely read and write, my math skills reached its zenith when I was able to count high enough to confirm a dozen condoms were in the package.

Now many decades later the industry has far easier airplanes to fly and you need a degree to apply for the job.

What is wrong with this picture?

C.E.

Captain_ian

21st Jan 2007, 01:31

Well
I guess the difference between Seneca and Coastal Pacific is that.

Coastal Pacific : get a B.B.A. degree (business degree) which you can find an office job easily after getting tired of flying (not that you're going to mentally, but you might fail to get Class 1 medical later in life)

Seneca: I'm not not sure what you get, as far as I know, you'll get like a science degree or something. Which it's kind of useless cause it's too general. But the good side of is government funded.

And at coastal, you get to go to a University while Seneca you go to a College. As far as I know, Airliners are now demanding higher educated pilot.

But i mean, both schools are top in Aviation in Canada. So I guess it depends who you are in order to be successful pilot.

**Correct me if I'm wrong about the Seneca program :bored:

Fingersmac

21st Jan 2007, 05:03

No, you're correct. Seneca is an Applied Technology Degree. The BBA from Coastal Pacific is definitely more flexible for applications outside of aviation.

Captain_ian

21st Jan 2007, 06:08

No, you're correct. Seneca is an Applied Technology Degree. The BBA from Coastal Pacific is definitely more flexible for applications outside of aviation.

You're right. My avg it's like 75 and i got in to the program.
Well...i got lots of extra activities. But then my friend who got high 60s avg and got in.
Coastal is flexible for getting in. But if you want to continue studying in the school, you need to maintain a B- in the program. That isn't easy at all.

I'm not sure about Seneca, but I heard lots of people saying it's not easy also.

All I know is I know lots of Coastal graduate went to "Pacific Coastal", "Air Canada", "West Jet", But I have never heard a Seneca graduate hits some big name airline industry...:bored:

nolimitholdem

21st Jan 2007, 12:39

Wow, I am getting old. I thought it was rough being $25K in the hole after my Private, Commercial, Multi-IFR and then Instructor’s rating. First twin job was less than $800 a month after tax. Oh how times have changed. What will it be like in another 25 years?

Well actually parts of it haven't changed that much. First job in 1997 paid $1000/month (before tax). (Navair, PA31 YVR)

wannabepilot1531

21st Jan 2007, 16:03

All I know is I know lots of Coastal graduate went to "Pacific Coastal", "Air Canada", "West Jet", But I have never heard a Seneca graduate hits some big name airline industry...:bored:

Actually I know for a fact that there are a number of Seneca grads out there working for Air Canada and West Jet. And even some Sault grads too.

wannabepilot1531

21st Jan 2007, 16:07

Just remember that Sault and Seneca have quotas. If you're not in the top X of the class, you get cut from the program as they only have a certain number of spots available for students in later semesters. Confederation, on the other hand, has no such quotas and all though attrition is high, there are spots available for all students so long as they achieve passing marks.

Sault does not have the same kind of quota as Seneca. Seneca takes the top numbers in the class, and moves them on. So you are competing against your class mates. At Sault you just have to mantain a 3.1 GPA, Aprox. 71%, and whoever makes the mark, moves on. So in this case you aren't competing against your class mates, and could make it easier to seek help when you need it.

Fingersmac

21st Jan 2007, 18:27

All I know is I know lots of Coastal graduate went to "Pacific Coastal", "Air Canada", "West Jet", But I have never heard a Seneca graduate hits some big name airline industry...:bored:

All three Ontario subsidized schools have been around for several decades and have seen their graduates succeed in all aspects of aviation including major airlines like Air Canada, Westjet and Cathay.

Wannabepilot1531: Thanks for correcting me as I was under the assumption that they only allowed a certain number of students through to subsequent semesters. Seems like they have similar criteria as Confederation in terms of academic progression.

Captain_ian

22nd Jan 2007, 00:52

All three Ontario subsidized schools have been around for several decades and have seen their graduates succeed in all aspects of aviation including major airlines like Air Canada, Westjet and Cathay.

Wannabepilot1531: Thanks for correcting me as I was under the assumption that they only allowed a certain number of students through to subsequent semesters. Seems like they have similar criteria as Confederation in terms of academic progression.

So I guess it doesn't really matter which school you go to. Cause you'll still have an opportunity of getting in to major airlines.(If you don't consider the cost)

wannabepilot1531

22nd Jan 2007, 01:40

You got it, pretty much, the moral of the story is... get your education where ever the heck you want. And worry more about the hours and stuff.

Fingersmac

22nd Jan 2007, 01:42

So I guess it doesn't really matter which school you go to.

Exactly.

In my opinion that's why cost does become a factor.

Fingersmac

22nd Jan 2007, 01:46

And worry more about the hours and stuff.

This is paramount and why I've decided to pursue a degree through correspondence while I'm working.

CUB181

23rd Jan 2007, 14:13

School does matter. The fact that Seneca only accepts top of the class students makes the program very demanding and somehow puts you over some other schools regarding student academic and experience. The fact that students are always working hard with too little time off, it's part of the training towards airlines mostly. Seneca students will be more used to stress situations than many students at Sault (for example), thanks to the time consuming and stressful program they' have been under. All pilots are tested to see their performance under stressful situations I consider Seneca students to have a better training on this aspect.No saying what school is better than the rest, just pointing out some aspects that people need to consider.

I'm not a student of any of these aviation colleges, however, lots of research and talking have helped me figure out the pluses and cons of each program.

Fingersmac

23rd Jan 2007, 16:44

wannabepilot1531

23rd Jan 2007, 20:39

You do realize that you will not be hired directly into an airline upon graduating from Seneca? Like the vast majority of low-time pilots in Canada, your first job will be a toss up between working the dock or ramp, instructing or if you're lucky, flying a small piston single or twin as a pilot (or co-pilot) somewhere much further north than Toronto. I hope Seneca can prepare you for this as it can be quite the reality check for most that are unaware of how the Canadian aviation industry works.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Chuck Ellsworth

23rd Jan 2007, 20:55

Quote:

" There are a multitude of pilots flying in all aspects of aviation that have little to no education. Attending a specific school will not make you a better pilot or employee. "

The reason that there are many pilots with very little education flying in all aspects of aviation is quite simple.

To be a good pilot and able to make sound judgements does not require any formal education beyond the ability to read and write and some basic math skills.

Conversely, I have run across a few graduates from these college programs with a very dangerous know it all attitude that does not belong in any aircraft cockpit.

Just an observation from an uneducated ordinary airplane driver. :ok:

CUB181

24th Jan 2007, 13:48

"The fact that Seneca only accepts top of the class students makes the program very demanding and somehow puts you over some other schools regarding student academic and experience."

Sounds like you'll fit in quite nicely at Seneca.

There are a multitude of pilots flying in all aspects of aviation that have little to no education. Attending a specific school will not make you a better pilot or employee.

You do realize that you will not be hired directly into an airline upon graduating from Seneca? Like the vast majority of low-time pilots in Canada, your first job will be a toss up between working the dock or ramp, instructing or if you're lucky, flying a small piston single or twin as a pilot (or co-pilot) somewhere much further north than Toronto. I hope Seneca can prepare you for this as it can be quite the reality check for most that are unaware of how the Canadian aviation industry works.

As a side note, Confederation College is only a two year diploma program and does not delve into the maths and sciences that Sault or Seneca do. What does make their program exciting, challenging and stressful (at times) is that flight training happens right from day one. Each semester has academic standards to be met but also have flying standards to be met. This is just for your information and not for a proverbial "pissing contest".

I agree with you and most of the users in here that education isn't exactly the most important aspect of a pilot. However, you can't deny, it can provides you with better chances of been hire than anyother pilot, with the same flying time as you. Why?, well because you have both the same hours, but you have a better education and you have a degree!! that my friend is the cruel reality. I'm feeling a bit annoyed by people who didn't not study, or were not precisely good at school, and consider themselves better pilots than the ones that actually got a degree.

It seems like I'm always talking to the same person. Everybody says the same over and over again. What's up?, like you don't have anything else to say rather than.."Did you know you won't be hired by an airline after college?" even a 2 year old with no knowledge whatsoever about the industry can say that. That happens in every single job, it's not like aviation is the only one. People like you make everything look impossible, and that's the main reason of why they never get to do anything to be proud of themselves. They expend their failure future on forums like this persuading many, but many people from the aviation path, by making it look impossible.

Off course that attending to an specific school will not make you a better pilot at all, the name of the school, as well as the reputation of the school, does impact on you ability of competing with other pilots, who have the same logged hours as you do, and exactly the same results in the interview. It's like a software engineering graduated from Hardvard University, and a Software Engineering graduated from Confederation College. They both have a degree, but, as a matter of fact thet graduated from Hardvard has way more chances of getting hired.

There's too much negativity coming from frustrated pilot. but again, this is just my opinion, please respect it as I respect other's.

Fingersmac

24th Jan 2007, 15:30

I'm feeling a bit annoyed by people who didn't not study, or were not precisely good at school, and consider themselves better pilots than the ones that actually got a degree.

Oh the irony.. (unless of course your mother tongue is not English)

Anyway, I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just providing you with some information and an opinion from someone that went through all these decisions recently.

Good luck with the Seneca entrance exams and all the best with your training in the future.

CUB181

24th Jan 2007, 18:33

Oh the irony.. (unless of course your mother tongue is not English)

Anyway, I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just providing you with some information and an opinion from someone that went through all these decisions recently.

Good luck with the Seneca entrance exams and all the best with your training in the future.

You got it right, my mother tongue is not English, so I'm sorry for the butchering :oh:. I hope u understand what I tried to say, I was just seeing too much negativity and that happens very often on aviation related forums.
Thank you for wishing me good luck, right now, I'm studying very hard to prepare for those exams..hopefully it will all work out. I'll post again when I get accepted (if I am) so I may help others by giving them information regarding the program.

sepia

29th Jan 2007, 22:29

School does matter. The fact that Seneca only accepts top of the class students makes the program very demanding and somehow puts you over some other schools regarding student academic and experience. The fact that students are always working hard with too little time off, it's part of the training towards airlines mostly. Seneca students will be more used to stress situations than many students at Sault (for example), thanks to the time consuming and stressful program they' have been under.

You need to get a grip man. Seneca isn't harvard! Your first 5-10 years in the industry is going to be very hard on you if you think your superior education is going to open doors for you. What the Navajo or C-185 owner wants is someone who will dig outhouse holes while being destroyed by mosquitoes in the rain, someone that will stay outside in the middle of the night and fix a honda pump when it's -40C. Your absolute crap attitute surely won't help you with those jobs. Not even your Seneca jacket will save you there.

Dockjock

31st Jan 2007, 17:24

Aviation college does not prepare one for digging outhouses, but that doesn't mean eduation is pointless. Aviation college will however look considerably better on an airline application than digging outhouses does. Embark on your education/training with the long term view...what will achieve the most in the long run. Not what will give you the best chance at fixing a honda generator. Everybody struggles through the first 5-10 years of flying, college educated or not. Those that have gained a degree or diploma will be thankful they did however when it comes time to fill in the boxes on the Air Canada or Westjet hiring form.

bcflyer

4th Feb 2007, 06:48

I have a college diploma from Con College and while it may have have helped me to get my interview, what got me the job was my experience flying up north. (including digging more outhouse holes than I care to admit too.) I don't care who you are, there is NOTHING like hands and feet experience. On a dark and stormy night I would much rather be sitting beside someone who has been there and done that before, than someone who has spent 2000 hr in the circuit.

sstaurus

5th Feb 2007, 19:06

I'll be finished my degree in Business Admin in April, and have already been accepted into Sault. I applied to Confederation too, and haven't heard back yet but I think I will get in there too.

I'm kind of leaning towards Confederation, for the Float rating, and also their program is a little shorter and they start flying right away. Do you think a Multi-IFR from Sault would be better?

I'm worried I'm starting this a little late, because I did my degree first. Starting this fall '07 at 23, I'll be 25 or 26 years old by the time I finish (depending if I do Sault or Confed). Do you think my degree will be useless after the aviation college if I can't find a job? Or I'll be too old for building Aviation experience?

cheers

Fingersmac

6th Feb 2007, 03:03

sstaurus: Go for Confederation. I'm 29 and in my final semester there as we speak. Your age will not hinder your chances at an aviation career. CPL pilot with a university degree and an aviation diploma at age 25.. you'll be fine. More than young enough for a long aviation career.. and with your educational background you're set if aviation doesn't work out.

Since you have a BAdmin you should be able to get exemptions from several non-aviation classes like accounting, business law, supervision (HR), English (2 semesters worth) and possibly computers. Depends on what classes you took at university. I was able to secure 7 out of 8 possible exemptions with my previous post-secondary education. Makes focusing on the aviation portion of the program much easier.

Good luck with your decision and PM me if you have any questions.

CUB181

6th Feb 2007, 05:32

@Sepia

I'm tired of hearing the same crap over and over again.

"You need to get a grip man. Seneca isn't harvard! Your first 5-10 years in the industry is going to be very hard on you if you think your superior education is going to open doors for you."

My neighbor that knows nothing about the industry knows this.

"What the Navajo or C-185 owner wants is someone who will dig outhouse holes while being destroyed by mosquitoes in the rain, someone that will stay outside in the middle of the night and fix a honda pump when it's -40C"

A what?? a C-185?? English muffins? Digging?

"Your absolute crap attitute surely won't help you with those jobs. Not even your Seneca jacket will save you there."

You are telling me I have a crappy attitude because I think that going to Seneca and getting my licenses and a degree at the same time, will prepare me better if my goal is to fly for an airline, either cargo or pax?

I guess your statement works only when stating you frustrations... I'm sorry if you haven't been able to come up with a plan B for getting out of what the heck you're into right now. But I purely wish you the best of luck, and exhort you to keep improving both your flying skills as well as you persona and education so you can maybe put an end to all this negativity and hate towards other wannabes like myself.

you take care and c ya around

2U5A

9th Feb 2007, 12:11

There is a rumour that Jazz and one other airline are actually going direct to the various aviation training colleges and recruiting direct for their airline.
The question begs, is this true????? and how do feel having a right hand seat with only 250 hrs driving you around in the sky???

CUB181

9th Feb 2007, 21:58

Although I wish for that to be true..I don't think it's likely to happen. I first heard about this at avcanada, and the topic caused lots of discussions and debate between users.

airlines having some sort of cadet program are mostlikely to occur in Europe or Asia because of the "lack" of pilots over there. It is indeed very expensive to get a license outside this cadet programs, therefore, airlines create it to reclute their pilots from there. that's why there are airline pilots at Europe with 250TT.

In the other hand, Canada is full of pilots applying for a job at the airlines. Many people over here have licenses because it is relatively cheaper to get licenses than at Europe or Asia. AC have tons of applicants and same with Jazz therefore, I don't see a reason why they need to create a cadet program joint with the airline.

just as a side note...the aviation college was Seneca College

and another side note....:)

I got accepted to Sault and Confederation already...however, I'm waiting for Seneca since it is my first choice.

If you have more info on this "rumour" plzz keep us or me..aware of it..thanks :P

wannabepilot1531

10th Feb 2007, 16:57

Specifically what highschool courses did you take?... and what were your marks?..academic or applied courses? thanks

CUB181

11th Feb 2007, 15:30

Hi there wannabepilot:

I took:

English 4U -----75%
Discreet Math 4U ---- 75%
Calculus 4U ----- 85%
Chemistry 4U ----- 87%
World Issues 4U ---- 87%
Physics 4U ----- 81%

total 81.6% but I was told that this mark does not gets rounded so 81%

hope that helps

WetJet

12th Feb 2007, 19:00

Even if you do get in, Seneca cuts the first year class to about 30 by year two. The programs at Sault College and Confederation College are great too. Congrats on getting in.

CUB181

12th Feb 2007, 22:30

They are indeed very good programs..but I live in T.O going to either Thunder Bay or Sault st Marie will make it almost impossible for me to confirm my acceptance. Just found out that the round trip on Jazz is 300. Going to either of these colleges will mean a whole new life far from home again.
It will be more comfortable for me going to Seneca since it is closer to home and I love the fleet as well as the campus and the program overall.

WetJet

12th Feb 2007, 23:16

Cub, I made the mistake of thinking I could go my whole career staying in Southern Ontario. You would have more fun getting in trouble in the Sault than living with your mom. Get used to moving, the guys that go north are going to be the ones that get hired up north with 250 hours...

CUB181

12th Feb 2007, 23:39

I live with my brother and father in Canada. My whole family including my mom is back in Cuba. Going up to Thunder bay will mean starting over again...and I can't just leave and try to get a job somewhere else..my family needs from me to have a job. Right now, there are many things my friend...bigger than me and many people depending on a 18 year old's part-time job.

WetJet

12th Feb 2007, 23:51

A good strong work ethic will get you places quickly in this industry. You will be just fine, all the best!

CUB181

16th Feb 2007, 22:47

I'm away from home right now, and my dad told me I received an envelope from Seneca College. He opened and told me the principal... Seneca told me to assist to Markham and Buttonvile Campus for a session. We can bring our parents and they will talk to us about the medical test, as well as registration progress etc. This is all on march 3rd, from @9 o'clock tests are done, one math one english...I'll specific later on when I actually see the envelope because my dad told me they also sent a sample test as well as a brief explanation on what the English test is based on.

I'll keep you informed

airfly

23rd Feb 2007, 04:37

Hey guys,

I went through all this thread and got an idea about aviation schools in Ontario. I did actuly apply for Seneca for their part time CPL certificate, can any tell me what do they think about this compare to their full time program.

Also would I be better of going to Sault or Confederation instead of the part time. The reason why I went to Seneca part time is because it allows me to pay for it when ever I can, but if I understood right Sault and Conf. college are pretty cheap less than $45K for the same objective wich is CPL.

Also would this schools accept me even if I don't have a canadian High School Diploma but another one from a different country?

A would appreciate your help guys and sorry for my english

Thanks

CUB181

27th Feb 2007, 05:31

stop by this saturday march 3rd at the Markham Campus, and ask about the part-time.

There's gonna be a presentation at 8:30

airfly

17th Mar 2007, 05:54

Hey guys,

I wanted to know how hard is to get in to Confederation College. I was thinking about it and I wanted to apply there, can anyone help me out thanks

CUB181

19th Mar 2007, 01:24

Wohoooo I got into Seneca guys!!! yes I did it. I guess all the hard work paid off. I have to say I'm the happiest person on earth right now.

Now, to go for my medical and apply for OSAP. I'm truly looking forward to September.

to airfly:

Confederation College is not hard to get into,or should I say, not too hard to get into compared to Sault and Seneca.

energie

19th Mar 2007, 13:34

what are the opportunites upon graduating from seneca?

CUB181

19th Mar 2007, 22:45

right now getting into Jazz. As they have started a "cadet" program with the college. If you don't make it to the top list, then I guess you have the same opportunities as everyone else in an aviation college

airfly

20th Mar 2007, 05:20

Hey CUB,

Does Seneca help you with OSAP? Last time I check they didn't have it.

Also I called Conf. College and they tols me that there was a long waiting list to get in so if i apply now they can't secure me a spot for this Sept.

What do you guys thing should I apply at Seneca wich is closer to me or Conf.?

CUB181

20th Mar 2007, 20:13

airfly:

The OSAP has nothing to do with Seneca College itself. The OSAP is the goverment and you have to apply in order to get money from them. OSAP can be used for any recognized post secondary education, so any of the colleges or universities in Ontario.

You must enter to the OSAP web site for more information as to how apply, and what rates are available for the 2007-2008 year course. All money coming from Seneca is either bursaries or scholarships.

Right now I can tell you that if you have about 80% average coming into Seneca, you get 1000 off your tuition, and if you maintain your average then 1000 more each year.

Same with OSAP, if you have marks above 80& then you they "pardon" some of the money. So let's say they give you 12 000 for this year. If you do well, meaning above 80%, you can have up to $7000 dolars that you won't have to pay back. As well as other scholarships available at the school.

Therefore, you shall not believe everyone when they say Seneca College is too expensive, as it is not. And if you keep on working hard you won't even pay a cent of those 40K.
I know students from 2nd and 3er year that the goverment is paying their education completely and no need to pay back the 40K. At the most, you'll be paying around $5000.

All this and more, if, like I said,....you work hard enough!

"Also I called Conf. College and they tols me that there was a long waiting list to get in so if i apply now they can't secure me a spot for this Sept."

I can understand that, since I've been accepted already and a couple of people I know too. However, do apply! I got accepted to Conf. but I declined my acceptance, therefore, there will be at least one spot, is available now that i refused it.

If you want a degree got to Seneca, but get ready to work you butt off, as this program is famous for a high wash out rate. As for backstabbing, I tell you that's BS. If you're looking for a job right after grad, then Seneca might also be a better option considering now their new "cadet" thingy with Jazz.
If you also want some jet training then you should also go to Seneca as they now have a CRJ-200 Simulator, as well as Jazz pilots hired part-time to instruct students.

If you sum all that up, I guess you'll see why I opted for Seneca and why I'm feeling like this is all a dream. I still can't believe that what I always dream off is becoming a reality thanks to my hard work and forever existance inspiration....

Good luck man, and if you need help on something else I'm here. You got yourself a new friend already. C ya.

airfly

21st Mar 2007, 05:09

Thats great information man thanks a lot.
I would like to get into Seneca full time but 4 years I think is too long for me. I'm almost 24 and before i'm done school ill be 28, plus i need to build my hours and by then who knows how old ill be.
Confederation is only 2 years and it give you almost the type of training exept the Jazz Cadet that you are saying but you can get a float license wich will be good to built some hours instead of be an instructor.
In the airline business segnority is the most important think, you need to build your segnority as quick as possible so thats why you need to get into this business ASAP. Especialy now that the baby boomers are all going to retire soon, so our generation need to finish school soon so we can get a flying job even with low hours.

Also I'm wondering if you can get OSAP with the part time course.

bcflyer

22nd Mar 2007, 21:47

The only thing that the Jazz cadet program will guarantee is that a few of the top students will get an interview. Thats it. IF they are successfull there then they will still be required to pass the simulator evaluation (which is done in a full motion Dash-8 by the way, not a fixed base RJ... I've flown both. HUGE difference in a full motion sim) They will be evaluated to the same standards as the guys with 3000 hrs and tons of real world IFR experience that they are competing against. If you want to really experience flying, then go to Confederation, suck up all the info you can from the top instructors there and get yourself a job flying floats. :) (best flying I've ever done!!!) It will make you a far better pilot and you'll actually have something to talk about when you're crossing the atlantic some night later on in your career.

CUB181

23rd Mar 2007, 01:50

"The only thing that the Jazz cadet program will guarantee is that a few of the top students will get an interview. Thats it. IF they are successfull there then they will still be required to pass the simulator evaluation (which is done in a full motion Dash-8 by the way, not a fixed base RJ... I've flown both. HUGE difference in a full motion sim) They will be evaluated to the same standards as the guys with 3000 hrs and tons of real world IFR experience that they are competing against. If you want to really experience flying, then go to Confederation, suck up all the info you can from the top instructors there and get yourself a job flying floats. :) (best flying I've ever done!!!) It will make you a far better pilot and you'll actually have something to talk about when you're crossing the atlantic some night later on in your career."

Wow, didn't now the green eyed monster was here in pprune...

A far better pilot?? What kinda of BS is that man? Why is it that everyone is pissed off at Seneca?

the only reason of Jazz deciding on start a cadet program with Seneca is because they find Seneca students to be the best trained. Nothing else....

and by the way: when crossing the atlantic, which I'm sure will not be while at Jazz, I'll be having the best time of my life...which will be well deserved.

bcflyer

23rd Mar 2007, 05:30

Green eyed monster? Are you trying to insinuate that I'm jealous of a program that will place 200hr guys in a Dash-8? :rolleyes:
As for what makes a better pilot, how many flying hours do you have? When you have done some real life work and have some experience under your belt I'll take your comments about what makes a good pilot seriously.
It looks like they started you on the koolaid early. (do they send out little packets with your acceptance letter?) You come out with a statement like "the only reason on Jazz deciding on start a cadet program with Seneca is because they find Seneca students to be the best trained." and then you have the audacity to wonder why people dislike Seneca grads? Once you have been in this industry for a while you'll figure out the REAL reason Jazz is looking at 200hr pilots. (little hint, it's not because you have the best training)
The cadets for the Jazz scheme (and trust me it is a scheme) will be selected from members of the CAAC which include several fine schools in Ontario, BC and I believe one in Quebec. Seneca may have a leg up because they have a RJ FTD but they are not the only school considered.
Just so you have an idea of the reception these new hires may get at Jazz, not one captain that I have talked to is in favour of this plan. In fact some have written letters to management in protest. Many have flown with 200hr wonders overseas and have said it basically reduced them to the role of babysitter most of the time.
By the way, I have flown with your so called best trained graduates. Three of them to be exact. All of them thought they were gods gift to aviation and none of them could drive S**t through a funnel with a sledgehammer. They were arrogant little pricks that wouldn't listen to anything anyone had to say. Oh but they sure looked cool in their jackets!! I have no doubt that there are some really good guys that have graduated from Seneca, unfortunately there are a number of complete idiots that have created the reputation all Seneca grads are now painted with.
You are just getting started in this industry so let me give you a little free advice. Nobody likes an arrogant pilot. Especially one that is just starting out.

pair_of_pratts

23rd Mar 2007, 06:36

BURN!!!! :D :ok:

Maple Leafs

23rd Mar 2007, 06:43

none of them could drive S**t through a funnel with a sledgehammer

He hehehehe. Now that's funny.

I guess a guy coming from flying club with a multi-IFR in one year , B, C, D student in high school is Sh!t out of luck. I guess it is just the College boys that fly the heavy metal.:rolleyes:

CUB181

23rd Mar 2007, 19:06

BCflyer you're mistaken when you call me arrogant. You don't even know me, you don't know how hard it has been for me to get to where I am right now.

"As for what makes a better pilot, how many flying hours do you have? When you have done some real life work and have some experience under your belt I'll take your comments about what makes a good pilot seriously."

Seneca students, like most cadet programs in Europe are as experienced as they need to be to be hired by the airlines, else they won't be hired. The experience you claim to have should have taught, and show you that there are pilot in Europe and the rest of the world flying safely with 200hrs. I don't see how can 200hr mean bad pilot. As well as a 4000hr a good pilot.

Jazz is not and will not be the only airline who hires pilot with 200hrs.There are also some new middle-east airlines hiring Seneca grads. 16 are at Oman Airlines right now, and yes with 200hrs.

"Green eyed monster? Are you trying to insinuate that I'm jealous of a program that will place 200hr guys in a Dash-8? :rolleyes:"

Wow you had to use google for that one eh?

It looks like they started you on the koolaid early. (do they send out little packets with your acceptance letter?) You come out with a statement like "the only reason on Jazz deciding on start a cadet program with Seneca is because they find Seneca students to be the best trained." and then you have the audacity to wonder why people dislike Seneca grads? Once you have been in this industry for a while you'll figure out the REAL reason Jazz is looking at 200hr pilots. (little hint, it's not because you have the best training)

First of all, what is koolaid? I'm not even from Canada. Again you're stereotyping, you are assuming I'm arrogant, and believe me my friend I'm not.
The statement cannot be anything else, but the closes reason of Jazz hiring grads. And if you're insinuating that it is because no one wants to fly for them, again, I'll tell you are mistaken, and talk more to pilots with 1000hr-2500hr, applying like crazy to Jazz.

"Just so you have an idea of the reception these new hires may get at Jazz, not one captain that I have talked to is in favour of this plan. In fact some have written letters to management in protest. Many have flown with 200hr wonders overseas and have said it basically reduced them to the role of babysitter most of the time."

I never said 2500hr pilots will be happy with Jazz's hiring decision. I would be if I was one of them. Now, about writing letters to management in protest?

Why is it? If we're all 200hr pilot, how can a, as you said,"more experienced pilot" be afraid to lose their jobs over a Seneca grad, which I'm sure will not be happening, since grads will only be for positions available.

"Many have flown with 200hr wonders overseas and have said it basically reduced them to the role of babysitter most of the time."

Again you're stereotyping, you're assuming every Seneca grad has the same attitude or potential. Remember we all have different abilities, the fact that I'll go to Seneca doesn't mean I'll become the kinda of person you think seneca students are, which I'm my opinion are very hard working guys.

"By the way, I have flown with your so called best trained graduates. Three of them to be exact. All of them thought they were gods gift to aviation and none of them could drive S**t through a funnel with a sledgehammer. They were arrogant little pricks that wouldn't listen to anything anyone had to say. Oh but they sure looked cool in their jackets!!

I have no doubt that there are some really good guys that have graduated from Seneca, unfortunately there are a number of complete idiots that have created the reputation all Seneca grads are now painted with."

glad you realized we are not all the same, there are a number of people with their foots on the ground, not building castles in the sand.

"You are just getting started in this industry so let me give you a little free advice. Nobody likes an arrogant pilot. Especially one that is just starting out."

Advice taken, and thanks for it. Believe me, going to Seneca will not make an arrogant person, or a better pilot, or a worst pilot, but my hard work and passion.

You take care and c ya around

I hope my English was good enough for your understanding

bcflyer

23rd Mar 2007, 20:38

Cub you are just getting started in aviation and english isn't your first language so I'll cut you a bit of slack and try to explain things more clearly for you.
The idea you are arrogant comes from one of your earlier statements that Seneca pilots are the best trained. There are many quality flight schools in this country including Selkirk and Mt Royal in the west, Confederation and Sault college in Ontario and Moncton Flight College in the east. Not to mention the many great private flight training facilities (I apologise if I missed anyone, those are just the ones that came to mind) To say that Seneca grads are the best of all those schools is extremely arrogant.
You cannot compare the cadet programs in Europe and the ME with what you have at Seneca. Most cadet programs are run by the airlines (or by an outside agency for an airline) and the students are groomed from day one to fly their specific type for that specific airline. Having a couple of Jazz instructors and an RJ FTD doesn't quite qualify. Not to mention the difference in flying in Canada vs Europe or the ME. There are some places here that require a different skill set (circling at night at mins in some very tight mountainous areas for example)
I've never made any mention of a 200 hr pilot being a bad pilot. We all had 200hrs at one point. My comment was that until you actually start flying for a living you are not really qualified to make a comment on what makes a good pilot.
Since you obviously have no idea of why Jazz would hire cadets let me lay it out for you. There is no shortage of experienced guys applying to Jazz. However due to the low pay and lack of advancement, there is a growing shortage of experienced guys that are willing to STAY at Jazz. A growing percentage of new hires are leaving with in their first couple of years. Hiring cadets will stop that flow. Nobody is going to hire a guy with 700hrs of right seat Dash-8 or RJ time so if the cadet is unhappy he/she is stuck unless they are willing to take a step back to the bottom of the food chain again. Does that make more sense to you now?
The letters of protest are from guys that would rather see Jazz pay the newhires more and keep the experienced guys than hire cadets. This program could start us down a very slippery slope. ( I won't get into details as it is an internal issue but sufficed to say it wouldn't be good for the pilot group as a whole)

Green eyed monster? Are you trying to insinuate that I'm jealous of a program that will place 200hr guys in a Dash-8? "
Wow you had to use google for that one eh?
First of all, what is koolaid? I'm not even from Canada.

Resorting to insults? Maybe if you had used the aforementioned google, you would understand what I meant by my drinking the koolaid statement.(by the way it didn't originate in this county so not being from Canada is no excuse for your ignorance)
I hope what I'm saying is opening your eyes a bit to aviation in this county. Don't believe everything that the college staff tells you. You are NOT an aviation god because you graduated from a college program and have a cool jacket. A degree does NOT make you a better pilot. More educated yes, better pilot no. Flying is about 90% common sense. Something that cannot be taught, even by the best schools.

CUB181

23rd Mar 2007, 22:24

"To say that Seneca grads are the best of all those schools is extremely arrogant."

I never said that my friend, I just said, they were the best trained for Jazz's requirements. They get trained by pilots from Jazz and have an, although stationary, CRJ 200 Sim. No one of the colleges you mentioned before have this sort of training which is what Jazz is looking for. My "best trained" was referring to jet training, which is what Jazz is looking for and as said before no other college in canada has it. It is probably my fault for not being so good in English. Next time I'll be more careful.

"You cannot compare the cadet programs in Europe and the ME with what you have at Seneca. Most cadet programs are run by the airlines (or by an outside agency for an airline) and the students are groomed from day one to fly their specific type for that specific airline. Having a couple of Jazz instructors and an RJ FTD doesn't quite qualify. Not to mention the difference in flying in Canada vs Europe or the ME. There are some places here that require a different skill set (circling at night at mins in some very tight mountainous areas for example)"

You are somewhat right. However, at least this is a first try to see how it goes.You can't compare a program that is just starting now, with one that has successfully been going on for years

"Resorting to insults? Maybe if you had used the aforementioned google, you would understand what I meant by my drinking the koolaid statement.(by the way it didn't originate in this county so not being from Canada is no excuse for your ignorance)
I hope what I'm saying is opening your eyes a bit to aviation in this county. Don't believe everything that the college staff tells you. You are NOT an aviation god because you graduated from a college program and have a cool jacket. A degree does NOT make you a better pilot. More educated yes, better pilot no. Flying is about 90% common sense. Something that cannot be taught, even by the best schools."

I don't see how I have insult you, drinking koolaid still makes no sense to me. This time i used google. The fact that I don't know what koolaid is, makes me an ignorant?

Kinda funny, I haven't talked to any staff from Seneca nor have I believed everything I see or read on forums. I know I won't be an aviation god for going to Seneca(not hoping to be one), but I do believe that Seneca will prepare me better for the specific path I will like to follow.

Speedbird eh!

26th Mar 2007, 08:53

CUB181.... Just to let you know that the degree at Seneca college is not a FULL University degree. It is an associate degree issued by a new hybrid type college that the government of Ontario has created. It will probably not be recognised in a lot of places around the world. If you are thinking of going back to Europe or wherever you are from then do re-think your position if you think it is a full degree.

Secondly, "BCFlyer" makes excellent points in his post and he knows exactly what he is talking about. Do listen to his points and his comments as they are invaluable.

Thirdly, just for your information, Confederation College is part of the Jazz cadet program. I know this first hand as I am currently at Confederation college. BCflyer is also correct when he says that we have some of the best flying in Canada. (Not to say anywhere else is less better). Confederation College has floats, skis, wheels and a Cessna 180 for training and the highest level simulator for a non-airline training facility in Canada. (Not sure about the new RJ sim).

You cannot compare the cadet schemes in Europe and the Middle East with the part-time after school activity that you will be having with an RJ sim. The European cadet schemes are a properly structured program and the pilots almost always have already been selected by the airline before training.

Seneca graduates do go through a tough and rigorous program and a lot of them come out of with a humble attitude not expecting the privilege of an Air Canada job with 200 hours. Unfortunately there are people such as yourself who will come out with that pompous attitude and make it very difficult for your friends to ever get a job in the industry later on in life. Having lived in Thunder Bay for two years and speaking with a number of the operators, a lot of them have mentioned that they will never again hire any Seneca students because of their arrogant attitude and their chip on their shoulder.

You also mentioned that it was much easier to get into Confederation College than in any of the other colleges in Ontario. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Just to let you know that I was accepted into Seneca College without even writing their entrance exam AND I was offered a scholarship and I was still on the waiting list at Confederation College.

I don't think any of our posts will change your mind, but experience in the industry will. Take advice from people who already are in the industry as their advice is indispensable.

CUB181

27th Mar 2007, 03:00

ok guys thanks for all

Dockjock

30th Mar 2007, 04:39

Nobody likes an arrogant pilot.
Slight correction- I believe Viper specifically states to the contrary, in the classroom scene, and I quote

Viper: "That's pretty arrogant considering the company you're in."
Maverick: "Yes, sir"
Viper: "I like that in a pilot."
QED
(carry on)

bcpilot_00

30th Mar 2007, 21:38

Just so you are aware, Jazz didn't pick a specific school for the cadet program. They went through CAAC which includes 8 schools in total. Selkirk and Mt Royal being a couple along with Seneca and Confederation.
www.caac.ca (http://www.caac.ca).
And it is true, all they are looking for is a total of 18 grads a year and will be picked from the 8 schools. The top applicants still have to meet the hiring requirements and pass a full sim ride. So no guarentee a job will come for the cadets. You will also sit right seat for minimum 6 years up to 10 years. Some guys who are right seat have 15 years and are just seeing upgrades to left seat!

CUB181

31st Mar 2007, 03:50

" believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."

If seneca wasn't all that good - it would not be around. Some of the comments are typical intra-college rivallry. I don't sweat it. It will exist all the way to when I die - my airline is better than yours, my airplane is better than yours. Oh, you must be rich cause you drive a Hyundaihttp://www.aviation.ca/components/com_joomlaboard/emoticons/tongue.png

It's not where I'm going or have been that counts, but who I am. So I'm just gonna be myself, and I'm sure Ill have a prosperous, and enjoyable time.

airfly

5th Apr 2007, 22:54

WOW this is getting a bit personal....nwyz CUB i need some help from you. Just today I receive a letter from Seneca and they want me to go and see them. I also got a paper with a few samples of Math and English questions. My question to you is how hard is the test? Please let me know as soon as you can, I'm suppost to go for this test on Tuesday.

Thank.

CUB181

6th Apr 2007, 02:12

"WOW this is getting a bit personal....nwyz CUB i need some help from you. Just today I receive a letter from Seneca and they want me to go and see them. I also got a paper with a few samples of Math and English questions. My question to you is how hard is the test? Please let me know as soon as you can, I'm suppost to go for this test on Tuesday."

The test is not hard, the only thing I found hard was the timing. We're giving 60 English questions,and they were divided into two sections. As far as I remember one was language and the other one reading.

In math we had around 33 questions, and the majority of them were based on probabilities and geometry. The rest was common sense, I still remember they showed you a square with a coloured circle inside, and they asked you what % of the square was not coloured. There's no way that anyone can answer that question and be 100% accurate. That's why no matter what I can say to you, you'll need to use common sense to answer some questions.

My best advice will be to hurry up and don't waste time. See if you can jump ahead and do the math section once you finished the English one. Don't allow then to see that you're moving ahead of people or time by doing so. I remember lots of people exclaimed when we were told to put our pens down during the math part. There was just not enough time.

For what you're telling me, I guess lots of people failed the test and did not got accepted. Considering that when I did the test there were around 300 people on the room and they're still accepting students and making them pass tests.

the best of luck to you, and I'm looking forward meeting you at Seneca!!

airfly

7th Apr 2007, 08:07

Hey thanks a lot CUB. I will try my best to jump ahead if I finish the English section early. Hopefully I get in. I am really excited but at the same time really nervous because I don't know if I will do good or not.
So how would they let you know if you got in or no?

CUB181

7th Apr 2007, 16:20

If you applied through ontariocolleges.ca you will receive your acceptance through them. Otherwise, they'll send you a package with your acceptance, a letter explaining the dress code, how much money it will cost the first semester and a whole bunch of other things.

Note that no matter how many people have applied but how many of those passed the test and had the marks to be included into the top 80s.Many people applied, yeah, but many of them do not have the requisites or did not pass the test. Do your best job man, and good luck once again.

:ok:

moetorious

8th Apr 2007, 03:33

hey CUB have you done ur medical exam yet? if yes can you please tell me what to expect and how its all done. is it a bad to party 3 days before the medical exam?

-Moe

CUB181

8th Apr 2007, 16:10

yes I did. It was done almost 3 weeks ago and it wasn't very rigorous. I had to pass an urine test, therefore, I think that through this they might check your alcohol level or something. As far as I know anything you drink will come out of your body being urine. They are going to check that, so be aware of it. They also make you an ECG to check your heart, check your breathing, hearing, eyes,measure the blood pressure, etc.

so if you ask me I wouldn't say it is good to party 3 days before the exam. Get it done first and then you can party all you want!!

moetorious

8th Apr 2007, 19:41

do they tell u the results on that day or do they have to call couple of days after?

CUB181

9th Apr 2007, 05:42

I only ask them how was everything with me, and they said it was great. I'm only waiting for Transport Canada to send me the certification, which shouldn't take more than a month.**I think so**

CUB181

12th Apr 2007, 04:12

This should clear some doubts regarding the Degree offered at Seneca.

How does a college Bachelor's Degree in Applied Technology differ from a regular university bachelor's degree?

The college applied degree has the same level of academic rigour as a university degree, but applied degree programs of study are not available at any Ontario university and are designed to produce graduates who are immediately employable in a given occupation. The description of an applied degree provided by the Ontario government is as follows:

A bachelor's program in an applied area of study is normally designed to require a level of conceptual sophistication, specialized knowledge, and intellectual autonomy similar to that in an academically-oriented honours program but with the disciplinary content oriented to an occupational field of practice. Students in applied programs learn by doing, with a focus on preparing for entry into an occupational field of practice. Such programs incorporate a blend of theory and practice, and normally include a terminal project or other practice-based exercises intended to develop and demonstrate the student's readiness for employment in the occupational field of practice. In addition to personal and intellectual growth, the programs are primarily designed to prepare students for employment in the field of practice, second-entry professional degree programs, or, depending on the content of the program and the field, entry into either graduate study or bridging studies for an appropriate graduate program.

as a side note:

an honours degree is equivalent to 5 years of University and it is one step ahead of a regular 4 year bachelor degree.

Hairdo

13th Apr 2007, 23:03

CUB181,
just a little note. you are going to be in an industry where there is learning to be done and if you do not want to listen to the advise that others very freely give you, then things are going to be difficult for you. maybe viper likes his pilots to have arrogance, but it will make your life difficult in the long run as people tend to get along better with those who listen. no a 200hr pilot is not necessarily a bad pilot, but they are a pilot who has a great deal to learn and the best way to learn is to listen and learn from those who have done it.

hairdo

mazmanr

15th Apr 2007, 17:32

This is indeed a very interesting thread.

I too have been accepted to start in Seneca this September. I am looking forward the the experience. I am in my last year of a Computer Science Honours degree at York University, and I have always loved flying so I decided to take the chance and go for a change.

On the issue of Seneca students and their attitudes. Honestly, I have not met too many Seneca aviation students, so I am not sure how valuable my comments or views are, but from what I've seen, UNFORTUNATELY, most of the stereotypes about them are true.

I really don't understand why the students come out like that, but I know I will definitely not graduate from Seneca with the sort of attitude and "I'm better than everyone else" mindset.

Either way, to the two Seneca students that will be starting this September, see you soon :)

CUB181

15th Apr 2007, 22:20

Thank God finally a helping hand. This thread never achieved it's goal. 4 or 5 guys started with their BS and now it's way out of topic.

In regards to Seneca students attitude I don't really care, their attitude will get them where they want to go....note that I said attitude not arrogance. Anyone would pump up after surviving 4 years over there, anyone will even pump up after seeing how much hate and bias is there towards the grads. Believe or not, your position against Seneca grads is feeding their arrogance and the "I'm better than anyone because of I went to Seneca" thinking. From where do you think they got it from?

like I said before:

"Some of the comments are typical intra-college rivalry. I don't sweat it. It will exist all the way to when I die - my airline is better than yours, my airplane is better than yours. Oh, you must be rich cause you drive a Hyundai"

see ya soon mazmanr and congrats :)