Peter Nielsen murderer to be retried

[av8boy]

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20061125/55989543.html

NZZ reports that a Swiss court has decided that a Russian man found guilty of murdering an air traffic controller in an act of revenge for the 2002 Bashkirian/DHL midair should have a new trial. Seems eight years in prison for a premeditated revenge killing is too lengthy a sentence in Switzerland.

Has time tainted my memory of this, or did this guy not hunt down Mr. Nielsen and brutally kill him in front of his family? In my opinion, eight years seems like a nice start, but still a few decades short of a complete sentence. :ugh:

Dave

[Jerricho]

No Dave, your memory serves you correctly. Murdered him in the front garden of his house.

[Snoopy]

In actual fact, he may not not be retried. Perhaps only resentenced.

The guilty verdict was confirmed by the appeals court. However it was the sentence that was not upheld as a result of contradictions in the justification for the sentence (as far as I understand). It has something to do with a "subconscious latent readiness to kill" and the appeals court considered this a contradiction in terms. It also felt that the comment by the original court that the defendant was "consumed by revenge" was arbitrary and not based on any facts. The State Prosecutor felt that the appeals court was being pedantic and regretted the appeal.

As there are still two appeals to other courts pending, it is as yet unsure how things will develop and what the next steps will be.

[Strategist]

How sad that a murderer is considered a hero. Are people so ignorant they don't care who they murder as long as they murder someone in their lust for revenge?

Poor Peter, who did his job, and was cleared of all wrong-doing, had to pay with his life because of the unwarranted hatred of this lunatic.

The real tragedy is that murder is worse than any accident.

If Peter had been guilty, to follow the justice of this madman, Peter's family should hunt him down and stab him to death. That is, IF he had been guilty. He was not, though, so as tragic as all the lives lost because of the accident, Peter's death was worse because it was deliberate. It was intentional. It was planned. It was not an accident. It was premeditated MURDER.

Peter was cleared. He did nothing wrong. Now he is dead, and the guilty are free.

What kind of sick people rejoice when an innocent man is murdered?
Or care more about the vicious murderer than the innocent victim.

[kontrolor]

sorry, it was Peter who cleared two aircraft to the same level. It was series of mistakes and wrongdoings from all sides (managment, Skyguide, etc..), but let's not forget why we are there...to enable safe, orderly and expeditious flow of traffic.... please don't understand this as bashing or ruining Peter's memory...but to make a muderer a hero, helps nobody and shows state of mind...he couldn't bring his family back, and just one name was added to total tally from the catastrophe...

[thealps]

sorry, it was Peter who cleared two aircraft to the same level. It was series of mistakes and wrongdoings from all sides (managment, Skyguide, etc..), but let's not forget why we are there...to enable safe, orderly and expeditious flow of traffic.... please don't understand this as bashing or ruining Peter's memory...but to make a muderer a hero, helps nobody and shows state of mind...he couldn't bring his family back, and just one name was added to total tally from the catastrophe...


If you don't know what exactly happended (which clearly you don't), then you should definitely refrain from writing stupid comments about the circumstances. The lack of knowledge/information is what lead some people to celebrate a murderer as a hero. You're just adding incentive for those people. Very sad and unnecessary.

[kontrolor]

thealps - from your emotional responce I would guess, that you are ATCO from Skyguide. Belive me, I'm very well informed of the events from IFATCA and other organisations I took part in.

First he cleared the B757 to climb to FL 320 and at time
21.26.36 to climb to FL 360. At time 21.30.11 the T-154
called in.

http://www.humanfactors.illinois.edu/Reports&PapersPDFs/humfac04/nuneslaur.pdf

look, from my first days as ATCO I was imprinted with the notion, that it is of vital importance to be able to select priorities and to solve problems, which can have the grawest results first. Peter failed in that. I dont and never will say nor think that the responsibility for the crash lays exclusively in his hands. Part of the solution was in his hands and he failed to do his part, because he made a bad choice. Rest assure, that I know exactly what were the circumstances at the moment when he had to make a decision.... But one of the general rules of horisontal separation of traffic is NEVER to put two or more flights on converging course on the same level if constant attention cannot be assured.

Now, I'm very well informed about the concepts of non-punitive environment, but this doesn't releave us from the responsibilites. You can't expect from me to accept the idea that loss of separation and catastrophe are on the same level?

If you do and if you are an ATCO, you should consider some other profession...

[Short Approach?]

kontrolor

By your postings you make it absolutely clear that you do NOT know all of the circumstances and therefore you are pissing the people who do know, myself included, off to a point that I'm sure is totally beyond you.

CIRCUMSTANCES or the context if you will, IS the story here. Not two alligators at FL360.

Now hush!

[kontrolor]

I'm very much familiar with all you said. was it me who swallowed single man operations and under such circumstances skyguide folk has? no. In my country there would be revolt and strike until smo would have been abolished. wait, they are forbidden by law in our country, there is no need to follow skyguide practices in every step.

and another thing - you can hush your dog, your children, but this is the last time you hush me.

[Short Approach?]

hush...

(length)

[kontrolor]

stfu (stfu for length)

[gunbus]

Remember,he is a russkie the gas may be switched off,if you upset them,or worse still you will have mor big issue sellers foisted upon you,if you have it there

[eastern wiseguy]

Kontrolor

From the Illinois report

Analysis of the event
based on technical reports and operational experience, clearly
shows how multiple human and system factors can conspire to
produce the observed outcome and it provides empirical
support for theories that highlight the difficulty associated
with divided attention across single channels, trust in
automation, and decision-making under time pressure.

My bold.

Quite how you can then place the blame on Peter beggars belief. I hope you NEVER have the holes line up.

The interaction between the two crews and the controller was the last,visible,human,fallible link in the trail of errors.

It could have happened to anyone.......even you.

[thealps]

Kontrolor

If you're unable to see the full picture in a given situation, then maybe you should consider another profession.
Any ATCO (including you apparently) knows that you shouldn't have two A/C on the same level, on converging courses, without monitoring them. But if you see that as the only essential factor in this catastrophy then I'm afraid I'll have to repeat my earlier opinion stating that you clearly don't know the circumstances.
If you don't agree- I don't care. Go on strike as you always do!

@ E W - very good point.
@ S A- my opinion exactly.

[Stoffel_KT]

I think I can't believe what I am reading here.

@ Kontrolor how can you focus only the fact that 2acfts were indeed on the same level and converging, being a Kontrolor yourself. Yes Pieter Nielsen was one of the last key elements in the line to be able to resolve this situation and definatly yes he has made mistakes if you look at the end result. But, how can you as a controler who has the experience in the job he was up to do and who states to know the details about this story, still put the blame on Pieter Nielsen?

I think this is a very sad and narrow way of thinking.

And even if so, if he would have been the only fatal mistake in this whole accident.... does that justify his murder?!?!?! If you think this is correct I even wonder how you still dare to do your job...
I thought the middle ages where 'Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth' was valid had been long gone....

[trevgk]

This was very tragic but what one needs to take into account, Swiss can be very, very, very arrogant and when this man was asked for an apology, he shrugged it off as though the others life meant nothing. My guess is that is what angered the victims of the crash father and set up the revenge. Swiss need to be more understanding and not show such arrogance, especially when so many lives were lost.

[Denti]

He was from denmark, not switzerland. And as usual it was a chain of events, not a single thing done by a single person. That would be a very narrow-minded and uninformed view of what happened.

[ATC Watcher]

Russia never will extradite one of his citizens, so the change of verdict is a pure paper exercise.
As to who made which mistake and when , a 5 min read into the BFU final report conclusions ( from page 104 to be exact) avail via google will answer all your questions.

Last observation , Peter's wife is still a controller in CPH and my be shown what some of you are writing in here.

[Basil]

Russia, a country still clinging to its 19th century ethos, where heads of state consider it OK to openly murder their own citizens in foreign lands. A country with which Western businessmen are having second thoughts of dealing.

No surprises then when this medieval thug decided to take the law into his own hands.

[Daermon ATC]

Relax folks.

I think you might have taken Kontrolor's comments a bit on the personal side, which is obviously understandable. I had the privilege to listen to someone who knew Peter Nielsen express his view on single man operations... very emotional and yet straight to the point.

I think Kontrolor just said that Peter Nielsen was the last barrier of defense (or perhaps the last slice of swiss cheese) and as such, he also failed. Emphasis is on "also", there were lots of other failures to actually allow him to be in that situation.

Back on the original topic, I obviously do share the necessity for justice in Peter Nielsen's murder. It was a horrible thing done to somebody innocent who was not to blame for the accident. However, to be true to justice I would need to ask myself if the murderer was really in a state of mind in which he could really know good from bad.

There is a reason most democracies don't put on trial underage criminals, even murderers, or if they do it's with a very light sentencing. Minors are not expected to be able to know the consecuences of their action and neither are those mentally ill. I think the trial took into consideration that the obsessively grieving father and husband was mentally impaired at the time of the murder.

To lock him up for the next 40 years will not bring Peter Nielsen back... I'd prefer a bit of mercy and forgiveness, the murderer has already the worst sentence nobody could wish for him.

[Tarq57]

One of the aspects of the (post-crash) tragedy that still angers me, is the culpability that could be attributed to the media reportage of the event.

As is today's fashion, "yesterday's news" is no longer considered interesting enough to warrant the order of follow up that should have occurred.

When the facts started to emerge, and it became clear that Mr Nielsen's actions were not the sole cause of the accident (and, IMO, a long way down the chain of causality) the media should have been reporting this, as a number one story. Not relegated, several days or weeks later, to a smallish item on page 7, or twenty minutes into the news report.

This may have made a difference, but possibly not. As stated above, the man who killed him was quite possibly insane, to some degree, at the time.

Long and short is: Peters' name should never have been released.

Daermon ATC, I'm utterly in agreement with the sentiment of your post above. The only minor point of difference I have with what you wrote is that I don't think that the controller represented the last slice of cheese. The last slice was the TCAS system, which functioned perfectly, and was deliberately ignored by the flight crew (senior member) of the 154. Poor training, and the culture at the time were causal factors. And, I think, the speed at which the technology was required to be introduced.

One of CANSO's current dreams concerns remote towers. The technology has come along nicely. It promises to save a little bit of money, by combining sectors (towers) during projected light traffic times. I'm very interested to see just how the ANSP's who embrace this intend to mitigate against the obvious hazards involved in a split-sector operation, as were horribly demonstrated at Uberlingen.

But that is for another thread; hopefully not another news story. Memories can be awfully short.

[Lon More]

One of CANSO's current dreams concerns remote towers. The technology has come along nicely
The technology is not everything despite what some wish.


BAD AXE — When Michael Trapp ditched his 1966 Cessna 150 in Lake Huron on July 26, he shouldn't have waited nearly 18 hours for rescue, says Huron County Sheriff Kelly J. Hanson in an extensive report released today.

"Our agencies have come to the consensus that Lockheed Martin Flight Service played a major part in the lack of response to this incident," referring to the Federal Aviation Administration's move to subcontract flight services to Lockheed Martin, who then consolidated services and closed the Lansing Flight Service.

When Trapp contacted what he thought was Lansing Flight Service for rescue, he was actually speaking to a controller in Virginia, not in Michigan.

Additionally, Hanson's report questions "how the Coast Guard coordinates searches in our area from Cleveland, Ohio."

On the night the incident occurred, Hanson was at the Harbor Beach Coast Guard Station, where they were ready to launch a search boat but had not been told to do so, because the Coast Guard was unclear whether an airplane had actually ditched, even though Trapp told the Lockheed controller he was 100-feet off of the water and "going in the drink."

"That order came well over four hours after the ditching," Hanson stated.

Hanson, a commercial rotorcraft/fixed wing pilot, with more than 28 years of experience, launched the investigation in the days following the incident with the hope that the agencies involved will review procedures.

He is also contacting U.S. Rep. Candice Miller seeking assurance that changes have been or will be made.

Hanson said an audio recording of the New York pilot's distress call to the Lockheed controller left little doubt that Trapp was in serious trouble and that the controller in Virginia wasn't familiar with the landmarks Trapp tried to provide to locate him.




Although Bill Lukens was not present on the day New York pilot Michael W. Trapp put out his distress call prior to his plane crashing in Lake Huron July 26, he does provide some insight into the specialist who handled the call, and defends those actions as appropriate with consideration to the information the specialist was given by the pilot.

Lukens posted his comments today after reading the story about the Huron County sheriff's investigation:


Bill Lukens October 17, 2011 at 1:13AMFollow

Hello, Michigan;

I happen to have worked with the Air Traffic Control Specialist who is on the recording posted in this article.

I was a supervisor in the Ashburn, VA Lockheed Martin AFSS until June of this year. This specialist has many years of experience in the Great Lakes area and DOES know the Lansing AFSS airspace well.

He did an pretty good job considering what the pilot said and did. He coordinated the aircraft's location as given by the pilot, he attempted to clarify the location based on what the pilot said.

The Automated Flight Service Stations (AFSS) do not have access to the Air Traffic Radar systems used in the Towers and Enroute Centers. When the pilot squawked 7700 he should have shown up on any radar that had coverage.

The pilot apparently did not file a VFR flight plan, was not receiving ATC Flight Following, did not apply carb heat promptly, and did not communicate his location correctly on initial contact. The AFSS specialist involved coordinated the emergency with both the center and approach control radar controllers and gave the best information he had available.

While I believe the AFSS system has many flaws and problems created by the FAA and Lockheed's management of the contract, this specialist did as good a job as his tools would allow. His knowledge of the LAN AFSS flight plan area is better than most and his location in Ashburn, VA had little or no impact in this incident