ICAO rule change --Over 60 now 65??

[greenfield]

So tomorrow is the 23rd November ! Will the age-limit now be 65 for pilots-in-command overflying or landing in ICAO contracting states, including France, or has anything happened to prevent the rule changing ?

Having been myself denied several jobs last year due to passing 60, can I now look forward to some opportunities opening again in Europe?? Have any of the agencies taken notice of the revised situation?

[hetfield]

Having been myself denied several jobs last year due to passing 60, can I now look forward to some opportunities opening again in Europe??

Go to a lawyer, in most european countries anti-discriminination laws are in effect.

[BOAC]

It was expected yesterday. Whether it happened at 0001 or 2359 or not at all, I do not know. Has anyone in any company received any 'official' notification? (assuming they were not just 'getting on with it' anyway:) .)

[Max Angle]

Don't work for them but I think at Thomsonfly (old Britannia, a much nicer name!) it has been implemented with over 60 Captains who had stayed on in the RH seat moving back the left as of now.

[wifi]

read the two lines of French AIC A 2006_13
http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/asp/frameset_fr.asp?m=3
:)

[BOAC]

Merci wifi!:ok:

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Anyone sen anything from the Italian CAA???:\

[kotakota]

OK , excusez-moi , je suis un cretin....when it comes to reading French aeronautical notices .............does it mean that the 'restriction' on over 60s is now lifted ?

[BOAC]

Je vous en pris:)

"The air users are informed that the validity of the Aeronautical Circular of Information A 21/00 of August 17, 2000 and whose object is "Age limit of the commanders" will end on November 23, 2006. SUBJECT: Age limit of the commanders"

Interestingly, it makes no mention of the retention of the age 60 limit for French licence holders which is what was rumoured.

You can read A2000-21 on the same site, and they HAVE translated that one.

[beenarround]

Has the FAA also capitulated.
As I understand from my reading it sounded like their stance was dependant on the wishes of the US pilot union which has up till now supported the limit.

Would be good to know.

[Airbubba]

As I understand from my reading it sounded like their stance was dependant on the wishes of the US pilot union which has up till now supported the limit.

The newly elected head of the U.S. pilots' union is John Prater and he supports raising the retirement age. Captain Prater takes office on New Year's Day 2007.

[BOAC]

Somewhere on PPRune is another thread on this in which it says that the only question for the USA is whether US pilots remain 'restricted', and that under ICAO rules OTHER licence holders can now operate in the US.

Check post #108 on this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242500&page=6&highlight=icao)

[mrs nomer]

BOAC,

It is my understanding that the US FAA has no choice but to now allow FOREIGN pilots in command up to 65 years to operate into and out of the USA. This is a condition of membership of ICAO, which, as has been reported plentifully elsewhere, recently ratified age 65.

The French AIC also seems to be an acceptance of this new limit.

The situation regarding American pilots living in the US and operating domestically or internationally into and out of the US, is somewhat less clear and I have no idea what further legislation may or may not be required to remove this uncertainty.

[sikeano]

I am glad I can work till I am 65 :yuk:
I am really looking forward to it

[BOAC]

The situation regarding American pilots- quite - I guess those on JAR or other licences will be ok, and the rest will have to await the decision of the house committees. Interesting scenario!

.........sikeano - AFAIK, no-one can MAKE you. Just resign.

[sikeano]

cheers
I might just do that
:ok:

[alexban]

We had a major retirement 2 years ago,at age 52 :D ,and since then around 25% of the retired guys died of different health reasons.:uhoh: (They all had a Class A medical before retirement,one even died at 52,rolling out after landing)
So,enjoy the new 65 limit of age,and best of luck for a retirement as long as possible.My bet,is that after some cases of incapacity or even sudden death at the controls of an airplane we'll see again an age limit change.
We all love this job,and maybe we have things to pay for,so I doubt any of us will retire before the limit age,health permitting.After maybe 40 yrs of flying,even if holding a good medical licence,one may crack at any time,I've seen this happening unfortunately to some good old friends of mine.
So fly safe,as long as you wish and have a nice,long retirement after that.:)

[tropical wave]

Can someone tell me what happened on the 1st Oct 2006 in Europe ?

[SLATS_EXTEND]

The newly elected head of the U.S. pilots' union is John Prater and he supports raising the retirement age. Captain Prater takes office on New Year's Day 2007.

I was at Captain Praters campaign speech when the ALPA-BOD convened here in LAS.

It is his personal position that he supports a change. However, as President of the Association he will support the position of the membership which is No Change to age 60....

Alpa members overwhelmingly favor retiring at age 60....No need to "work 'till you die".

Cheers

[Flying Guy]

It is in writing from the FAA that pilots up to age 65, in compliance with the new ICAO standard, may now be be in command of non "N" registered aircraft flying to and from as well as within the US but the FO must be under 60.

See this thread:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=248636

[ZQA297/30]

We had a major retirement 2 years ago,at age 52 ,and since then around 25% of the retired guys died of different health reasons. (They all had a Class A medical before retirement,one even died at 52,rolling out after landing)


Alexban, that is a very interesting observation, it seems to suggest that retirement is pretty fatal when you pass 52.
It is widely held that soon after they retire, many who lack focus, either business, or hobbies, etc, start a rapid downhill health slide. Your observation would seem to support that.
The age 65 rule allows you to go to 65, but does not require you to do so. You can still retire at 60 if you want.

[Ignition Override]

Historically, the older pilots often want to work after age 60, but many younger and/or furloughed pilots never want an extension of the age limit.

If I were furloughed and were willing to return to an airline (many will not return, or are changing careers...one airline has the worst Upper Management team in the US industry), then the age 60 rule would always be attractive.

Many US pilots went back to the FE seat at age 60 and flew until some widebodies are 'retired'-this also prevented some furloughed pilots from returning. It still seems a bit strange that on a poster board with a guy's name and which planes he/she flew with good luck signatures, there is never a mention of the situation when he flew as an FE at the end.

Are they ashamed of the fact, knowing that hundreds of pilots have been furloughed for several years, or just silent?:O

[411A]

I have a slightly different tack on this over age 60 idea.
Those at larger established airlines, that have a reasonable pension sceme should retire at the stipulated period (age 60, for example) and leave the flying for the younger folks.
The older ones have had their day, move on to retirement, so the younger ones have their chance.
Divorced (more than a few times) or other personal financial hardships should not enter into the picture..they made their bed, now lie in it.
OTOH, those who have retired should certainly be able to continue working as Commanders if they so choose, just at another airline that urgently needs direct entry folks, to aid expansion, for example.
This idea would seem to satisfy most folks, I would think....except perhaps those First officers at new(er) airlines who think they should be advanced to Command, but are not quite ready, for a variety of reasons.

[Docfly]

OK, so now we've got 65 lets go for 70! See below from this week's Flight mag.
Pilots could fly on until they reach 70
By David Learmount
JAA medical committee sees nothing against fit crew
The European Joint Aviation Authorities medical committee has agreed that there is "no medical reason" why airline pilots should not be permitted to continue flying until they reach 70 years of age.
The finding has been revealed as an International Civil Aviation Organisation resolution permitting pilots to fly to age 65 was implemented last week.
Speaking at Flight International's Crew Management Conference in Brussels last week, aviation medical consultant Dr Ian Perry said that the JAA medical committee has agreed that a fit 70-year-old should not be prevented from commanding a commercial air transport aircraft on medical grounds.
At the conference, the chairman of the Singapore Civil Aviation Medical Board, Dr Jarnail Singh, who also chaired the ultra-long-range task force and is a member of the Flight Safety Foundation crew alertness committee, said that in examinations of factors affecting crew fitness to work on ultra-long-range flights - such as Singapore-New York non-stop - pilot age was determined not to be an issue.
Perry, meanwhile, said that while airlines find clinical diagnosis of chronic fatigue "difficult to accept", if an accident is fatigue-related the airline is responsible for it. While making it clear that such events were rare, he revealed that the reduced freedom of movement imposed on long-haul pilots by the need to lock cockpit doors has resulted in flightcrew sleeping on the floor behind the pilot seats.
The US Federal Aviation Administration has set up a forum to investigate if US commercial pilots should be allowed to fly past the age of 60, in line with the new ICAO rules.
ICAO has increased the upper age limit for pilots to 65, provided that one of the pilots in the cockpit is under 60. Medical experts and FAA personnel will be joined by representatives from airlines and pilot unions in the Age 60 Aviation Rulemaking Committee to examine whether the USA should follow suit.

[bear11]

It's not uncommon from other industries to see people who work "unsociable" hours or shift workers having health problems into their late 40s/early 50s - at least pilots undergo regular medicals, and may pick up any difficulties earlier. Longevity in the face of long shift working I would suspect is down to the physiological makeup of the individual, and their ability to withstand it.

Two other relevant points: 1) the ability of a pilot to fly over 60 legally now does not mean that pilots can legally insist at being paid top dollar at the top of their pay scale in their airline for another 5 years, and 2) I suspect that the rollout to over 60s allowed in many countries will take some time as both local CAAs and airlines decide what they want to do.

[chuks]

I don't think general assumptions about age and fitness can be applied to people across the board. That is what is called 'discrimination,' actually, the whole point of our argument against the Age 60 Rule.

If one can pass the assessment, then why not fly? If that inconveniences someone younger who wants to move into my seat well, all I can say is, 'How unfortunate!' Perhaps he would like to move into my house as well? If I cannot work then it might be coming onto the market, and, yes, I know that marks me as a foolish boy but there you are....

I used to have to listen to a lot of whining about self-improvers, women and blacks moving into aviation to take up valuable space that was obviously meant for white, male, US Air Force veterans and retirees. Now it is wrinklies who are causing trouble. Life really is tough, eh? First we had homosexual marriage and now this! Too, for once one cannot blame the French!

[Tinribs]

I worked for a large UK for over twenty years and then was obliged to retire last year at 60. They siad my contract said 60 and they were not inlined to consider anything else

I wrote a few applications to smaller airlines and was amazed to get 4 job offers. The money is not so good and the aircraft are smaller but my company are pleased to have me and the other pilots seem content. I thought there might be a bit of antagonism from FOs about to be promoted but then blocked by my joining but not so those ready for command mainly moved on the airlines I had just left and the resulting gaps were sufficient for the remainder

Getting to 60 .. chooose a few likely candidates apply in writing and attend for interview, be realistic and polite to the young guys who interview you, they have problems too
Im glad I made the change, my boss listens to me he even rocognises me

[sikeano]

I just watched a film Firefox good old clint flies a mig the us and british govt think he is the best man
there you go guys if you convince you are the best man for the job you get the job end of story i seen the film :cool:
p.s not to be taken seriously the above comment :ok:

[6Pack]

Can someone tell me what happened on the 1st Oct 2006 in Europe ?
The sun came up ... some time passed ... the sun went down ... the date changed.