Minimum height requirements

[Lister Noble]

I've always understood that the minimum height for UK flights in a light aircraft is 500 feet.
Reading "Beyond the PPL" by Nigel Everett I see that in fact we must not fly vertically or diagonally nearer than 500' to any person ,building or vessel,so if flying in the open countryside it would be OK to fly at say 200' as long as this requirement was respected.
Obviously noise could be an issue and should be taken into account.

I don't intend to blast around at zero feet but would like some more info on this,is all this correct?

Lister:)

[Son of the Bottle]

Yep that's correct, 500' from any person,vessel,vehicle or structure.

I've flown PFLs down to (much) less than 200' - though if you startled a courting couple you could be in trouble.

[unfazed]

Safe to fly over an estuary or the sea at 50 feet but not if there is a diver lurking 450 feet under the surface:)

[mark147]

Safe to fly over an estuary or the sea at 50 feet but not if there is a diver lurking 450 feet under the surface:)If they're that far down and there's no boat nearby, I reckon there's a good chance they're dead. Does the ANO specify that it has to be a live person or do you have to keep 500ft away from dead people too?

Mark

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Yes that's correct.

However as you typically can't actually see whether you're within 500' of a person (people get up to all sorts of things in the "open countryside", eg a courting couple deliberately hiding under a bush) this is effectively a minimum 500' height over land.

Over the sea, more than 500' from any boats or swimmers or whatever, you can go lower. But whilst you can fly one of those <== around quite happily at 100', and I have done, I wouldn't recommend it if you're wearing wheels - what happens when the fan stops?

[Them thar hills]

Re the "50 ft over the sea" bit, you would be guilty of endangering the aircraft and its occupants, because if the donk stopped there's no doubt you'd get wet.
Plenty of frowning there.
:bored:

[englishal]

though if you startled a courting couple you could be in trouble
Unless you were carying out the PFL in good faith and really didn't see the people until you were below the 500', and then carried out an immediate go-around.....Then the CAA won't prosecute you.

[aluminium persuader]

Not necessarily true. If the field has a fence, a fence is a structure. If the CAA has a need it will bring all guns to bear.

Some years ago "beat-ups" became a bit of an issue with folk flying fast and low down a runway. The CAA "advised" for the purposes of Rule 5 that a runway is a structure and unless you were landing/taking off/overshooting from a genuine approach you could be treading on thin ice.

[stiknruda]

Lister - when I zoom your house I do it with caution.

The 3:4:5 triangle plays a huge part - you see me whooosshing by at 300' from your property, I'm flying at 400' agl ERGO I must be clear of you. The very fact that you have a gorgeous house with no neighgbours makes it all legal.

Stik

[shortstripper]

The very fact that you have a gorgeous house with no neighgbours makes it all legal.

It's quite an advantage having no neighbours ;)

SS

[IO540]

Has the "structure" bit ever been defined? There is a lot of fences around.

The real problem is nothing to do with legality: if you are at 500ft it is virtually certain that somebody will report you for low flying, and they probably can read the number plate. You will probably get away with it (any half decent lawyer will make the point that a layman cannot possibly judge height accurately) but that's not the point. GA has loads of enemies already.

[Humaround]

What's the legal position with PFL's?

I have done, and continue to do, plenty of these, and to be useful it's necessary to pick a field quickly, and descend to 100' or so before departing again. In most areas that will inevitably take you closer than 500' however considerate you try to be, specially if we count fences as structures.

Does the CAA ever prosecute pilots for doing a PFL?

[bookworm]

Does the CAA ever prosecute pilots for doing a PFL?

Yes. IIRC, there was a case a number of years ago when the CAA prosecuted a pilot for violating the 1500 ft rule over East Hanningfield in Essex while carrying out what was undisputedly a bona fide PFL. After conviction in the magistrates court the case was appealed to the Crown Court, which threw out the charge on the basis that the prosecution had proved neither that East Hanningfield was a "congested area" nor that the pilot actually flew over it.

[Lister Noble]

The aircraft I fly does not have any normal CA markings as it is in US Army military colours ,but that's not the point.
I was really questioning the legality of flying below 500 feet if not nearer than 500 feet to any structure,people etc.
Reading the replies it appears that bearing the 500' rule in mind, it is legal to fly at any height in open countryside especially if over friends farms where there are no footpaths,houses etc.
Lister:)

[airborne_artist]

do you have to keep 500ft away from dead people too?

Dead people may have a gravestone - a structure perhaps?

[MSP Aviation]

as a GA pilot, regardless of legality, i wouldn't push the 500ft rule near a cemetary, out of respect. if anything, i'd be at 1000

[Gertrude the Wombat]

as a GA pilot, regardless of legality, i wouldn't push the 500ft rule near a cemetary, out of respect. if anything, i'd be at 1000
Ah yes, there's a cemetary somewhere in London which has a canal running along one side ... and a large sign, to boat drivers, saying

"DEAD SLOW"

[J.A.F.O.]

Lister - Thought you flew an L4, didn't know it was legal to take them above 500'.

:ok:

[Lister Noble]

Got it up to 1000' today but very,very scary!;) ;)
Actually had a marvellous time checking out pals farms and airstrips,although not landing there this time:)
Lister

[Arclite01]

Hope you are enjoying the Cub Lister. Be careful on your touch and goes because the climb out on a hot day, 2 up can be interesting !

New Zealand is pretty demanding too ! - I am flying a Cub out here now and all my L4 time is standing me in good stead !

regards and take care

Arc

[mingalababya]

I've flown PFLs down to (much) less than 200' - though if you startled a courting couple you could be in trouble.

Excuse my ignorance, but what's this 'PFL' that you guys from the UK refer to? I'm from the other side of the world and have never heard of PFL.

Thanks,

[Darth_Bovine]

PFL: Practice Forced Landing.

To keep us sharp for the day when the fan stops at the front! :eek:

[Lister Noble]

Stuart,
I'm flying on my own,as it's easier than peering through a head,although I suppose I could sit in front when two up?
Thoroughly enjoying and thank you for your help in doing so.
Lister:)

[mingalababya]

PFL: Practice Forced Landing.
To keep us sharp for the day when the fan stops at the front! :eek:

Oh, I see .. thanks for that. We just call them "forced landings" over here. :)

[foxmoth]

Does the CAA ever prosecute pilots for doing a PFL?

The CAA has recently pushed out a bit of paper that I think Englishal was refering to with his post Unless you were carying out the PFL in good faith and really didn't see the people until you were below the 500', and then carried out an immediate go-around.....Then the CAA won't prosecute you.
The CAA are saying basically what Englishal says here, that they will not prosecute in these cases.

[Legalapproach]

Lister

If you want a master class in the low flying rules give me a call particularly because I may be the one to get the call from the CAA if you breach them!!

1000 feet pah! I got the Cub up to 8000' once although I have to say it was very cold, it took a very long time and Norwich wouldn't believe me.:{

Arclite

Just seen your post - everything going well out there?? Still very envious about your move and we will keep the L4 warm for your return

regards

Legal (SS)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

and Norwich wouldn't believe me
Why were you talking to them?? Part of the point of flying at that height over East Anglia is that you can go wherever you like without talking to anyone.

(Although I couldn't resist calling Cambridge with "field in sight" from overhead Honington.)

[JP1]

A banner towing aircraft flew over my apartment in Spain a few months back, (in fact over all the apartments parallel to the beach, so a good few) at I would guess no more than 200 feet. The apartment block is 4 stories high, I was one up from the ground on the balcony.

Anyway the height was low enough to me to clearly see the individual oil streaks and marks under the cowling.

Is low flying actively policed in other states, like here?

[Legalapproach]

Gertrude

I was boasting - knew they wouldn't believe me:ok:

[bigflyingrob]

If you see the courting couple then if you actually land in the field then you are legit as obviously the 500 foot rule does not apply if you are landing!:)
The other opt out is a glider ridge soaring but not a lot of people know that!