Monthly ATCOs salaries in Europe

[minimax]

I'd like to know ATCOs salaries around Europe and most of all how salaries are structured considering rating and endorcement.
Here you have the requested info about Italian ATCOs with min and max as new or close to retirement ATCO...please post same info for other countries:

MONTHLY NET SALARY W/O EXTRAS (overtime...)
TWR non RDR €1.900(min)/€2.500(max)
TWR RDR/APP €2.200(min)/€2.800(max)
ACC RDR/AWY €2.500(min)/€3.200(max)

Those are basic salaries, if you consider overtime, bonus and so on at the end you have a TWR non RDR with an annual income of €30.000/€37.000 while a ACC RDR/AWY €55.000/€70.000.
So the difference between airports and radar centers is very big:= ...too big:* .
What about your country?
MiniMax

[begbie]

So the difference between airports and radar centers is very big:= ...too big:* .
MiniMax

Too big? Depends on what side you look at it from.. Too small I'd say..

[anotherthing]

I would say those are fairly low salaries, still waiting for other figures to come in to compare but at todays conversion rates they equate to sterling of....

TWR non RDR £1275/£1675
TWR RDR/APP £1475/£1890
ACC/AWY £1675/£2145

and salaries of

TWR non RDR £20115/£24810
ACC/AWY £36900/£46950

I assume the salaries are gross figures not net like your monthly figures... otherwise they do not add up!!

[Zandr]

Hi !;)
I am an ATC from Ukraine.
And here are our salaries... in a mounth...
TWR non RDR €333(min)/€833(max)
TWR RDR/APP €533(min)/€1100(max)
ACC RDR/AWY €533(min)/€1100(max)
I work in Simferopol ACC and i have approximately 150 - 200 planes in a shift. My sektor is over Black Sea.
As i know that this number is not so much differ , compare with other European ACCs, but salary is REALLY differs from salaries of Europeans ATCos.
TWR and ACC earns the same money, but has really different traffic.
TWR has 15-30 planes in a shift in Simferopol Inernational Airport in the summer and 2-5 in the winter.
Sad but true...:sad:
How much planes in a shift do you have, if this is not a secret?
P.S. Sorry for my "Ukrainian@ English :D

[Charlie Roy]

Belgocontrol:


From the first day of your training period you are entitled to a salary, amounting to 1.600 euros gross/month. When you succeed in the training stage and an operational traineeship your salary will be increased to some 2.900 euros gross/month. When you succeed in obtaining the title of ADR, ACS or APS your salary will be situated between € 5.800 and € 6.200 gross/month depending on the operational position that you hold.

[Courtenay]

higher pay than NATS then... that is suprising....

[A7700]

higher pay than NATS then... that is suprising....
before or after income taxes...? what about the cost of life..? and for which number of madatory hours of duty ?

[Scott Voigt]

Our Center (ACC) averages about 6300 movements a day, we are down from previous years due to a one carrier pulling out of DFW (still third busiest airport in world though for movements.). One of our busiest centers does about 10,000 movements a day.

Our new pay scales, I believe that the busiest facilities CPC (certified professional controller) range from $84,000 - $104,000 a year. Most of the new folks will probably never see the top of the band with the way they are going to do the pay outs...

regards

Scott

[!turnleftrightnow!]

I have been working as an ACC-controller in Germany for 3 years now.

The gross monthly payment I got was 6500 Euro.
Plus extra money for working on sundays and holidays and nightduties i received an annual salary of 95500 Euro.
After tax approximately 58000 Euro were left.

From that money I had to pay private health-insurance (400/month), other insurances like e.g. loss-of-licence (150/month) and housing (1000/month) and so on...

Cheers!

[oceans 11]

higher pay than NATS then... that is suprising....

It is surprising because it is not higher pay than nats, at the top of the scale a NATS controller will earn £6500pm gross

[Courtenay]

ok ok... I can't do 11 year old maths :)

Well spotted!

James.

[matsATC]

before or after income taxes...? what about the cost of life..? and for which number of madatory hours of duty ?

That's before income taxes. What appears on your bank account every month is about this:
training: 1000 EUR (minimum)
ATC assistant: 1700 EUR (minimum)
TWR radar: 2900 EUR (minimum)
APP/ACC radar: 3300 EUR (minimum)

Increased with some 100-600 EUR depending on weekend/night shifts...

Working hours: 35/week

[OscarTango]

Shouldn't have applied at Belgocontrol then... :oh:

[flowman]

Lonmore! Where are you, don't be shy........:E

[OscarTango]

Let's wait untill we see what the controllers in "e-spain" are making, after that, I could post the Eurocontrol salaries...

Their extra duties are paid with a 4 figure number...too bad they won't let any foreigners in, eh :suspect:

[andrijander]

Hi there,

in view some counterpart of mine hasn't already taken this matter, allow me:

when you get established as an ATCO you'll start making 5500€ net/month. That's a long way from the 1300€ you start with as an ab-initio. It gradually goes up as you succeed going up the training ladder. Of course salary doesn't stop there as experience counts and at the end of your "serviceable" life you can expect quite much more -apart of some allowances-. But cost of living in NL is quite high and the area where we live is not the most lively I've seen -if you don't speak dutch/flemish or german forget the social life after work.

Regardings the spanish salaries: be cautious. It is only some places were they're doing the mega-bucks. Some twr's controllers don't see much more than 3K's a month...except when they get the extra pay -they get 14 pays a year-. That said, the conditions of employment are the best I've heard of in a while. But the way of getting in so far...you must hold a university degree and go through a selection process that starts with an exam that changes every year -from computer use to aviation law- and, once you pass that, then you go through psicotechnicals and interviews, medical, etc... to go to a lengthy 15 months course. Earning about 500€a month in Madrid. Their high succes rate, some claim, resides in the fact that you definitely need a loan to finish and what awaits for you, if you pass, keeps people in the right track.

My 2 eurocents worth of it anyway.
Saludos,
A.

[OscarTango]

Andrijander, one of our our colleagues visited an ex-eurocontrol-abinitio who's working in Barcelona ACC...one figure that stuck in my brain was 1000 euro's per extra duty, with no limits on extra duties.:eek:

I'm not sure anymore about the basic salary though...:O

But all in all, I ( personal opinion here )'m quite happy with what we've got. I have worked a "normal" profession before I started at Eurocontrol, and I'm happy with what I have. Makes me realize how hard I had to work to get far less... some people seem to forget that sometimes, or have never had to work before they joined us. But this is taking us off-topic, I think...

So, eurocontrol's salary is on here now, let's keep the other acc's coming :}

[andrijander]

Hey,

I was a waiter before...best years of my life (before the stress, the mortgage and the responsibility) just serve two drinks, have one yourself....

A.

[fredchabbage]

We all know about Spain, NATS and so on, but it would be interesting to hear what the salary in say Athens Area Control is. I heard a rumour its the highest in europe....anyone from Greece want to let us know?

[OscarTango]

well, excuse me :rolleyes:


:} :} :}

sorry, had no idea you only wanted to see twr/app/acc salaries :\

[mdcsplatter]

NATS Airports 3 or 4 points from top of scale fully valid OJTI band 2 £3100 after tax etc

[kontrolor]

slovenia: ACC with 10 years of experience - arround 2200 euros. 1 litre of 95 fuel is 1 euro

[Lon More]

Flowman
living happily off the pension that you are paying for:}
For what it was, see previous incarnations of this post
Anyway someone else posted Eurocontrol Controllers salaries, what do the flow Managers get given?

[flowman]

"What do the flow Managers get given?"

A hard time!

[Lon More]

Well it obviously wasn't going to be related to the work they do :}

[flowman]

See what I mean! :rolleyes:

I hope you are enjoying your retirement Mr Lonmore. I suspect you are not Moring many Lons at this time of year.:ok:

[MACR]

In most cases, EUROCONTROL is the bearer of bad news - not the instigator. Blame the UK for the DLA's (and, therefore, resultant re-routes for the bucket and spade brigades) due "staffing problems". HRN and LYD sctrs spring to mind here. The French; well, because its a hobby of their's. The Spanish; well, because they're Spanish....

[Lon More]

Flowman

Indeed, one is working on next season already although if it remains dry may go for a fast blast round the orchard tomorrow
http://www.webcamshafts.com/images_sm/lawnmower_sm.jpg

Not mine unfortunately - either of them:\



BLMRA (http://www.blmra.co.uk/modules/content/?id=3)

[OscarTango]

slovenia: ACC with 10 years of experience - arround 2200 euros. 1 litre of 95 fuel is 1 euro

Ouch !...:eek:

[jovica]

Serbia:
When you get RDR rating (you have to be valid in PROC for at least one year and ASS one year before that) pay is between 2600 and 3000 euros, depending on working hours, national holidays, etc. That is some 15 times the average.

[OscarTango]

Well, this is humbling:ooh: ...if I check my last paycheck, I'm emberassed to post it here ( so I won't ):\ Okay, we live in a more expensive region of Europe, but still...

But the good thing is I'm actually enjoying what I do to get payed that salary. That's also worth a lot !
:ok:

[jangler909]

Monthly figures from Finland:
TWR+APP: ~3000-5000€ (smallest figure at a small airfield with basically no shift allowances and right after graduating)
Additional APS-rating (where possible): add ~350-700€
ACC&EFHK: ~4000-6500€
35-50% goes to taxes etc. Government pays healthcare and education. One liter of 95 costs at the moment about 1,20€ and Big Mac 3,75€.
I get about 4000€ a month after 2 years of experience with TWR+APP -ratings.

[zasieki1]

In Poland ADI, APP + OJTI, 7 years expierience at smallest and no busy airport in the country 1300 euro netto. ACC more then double that, but cost of living in Warsaw are much higher. Big Mac 1,80 euro, 1 liter of 95 0,90 euro.

BTW, I have opportunity of working in Ireland. I have been asked what are my salary expectation. Do you have any clue what should I propose?

[slatch]

ZOA - Oakland ARTCC - even though its a level 11 (old scale) with 30.34% locality pay has about the highest salaries in the US.

Old Pay Scale - Controllers at the pay cap make $14,000 USD a month base pay plus CIP pay ( 8% of basic pay not counting locality), Night Shift (10%), Sunday Pay (25%), and Training Pay (10%) being added. Controllers with 20 plus years at ZOA are making $190,000 gross before overtime a year. Unfortunitly with the new pay scale no one will reach these levels again for a long time.

New Pay scale is $89,000 to $129,000 for a CPC.

New CPC certifing today makes $7416 a month gross before adding the CIP, night, sunday and training pay.

CIP is being eliminated at 2% a year.

[OscarTango]

And how many percent tax do you have to pay in California ?

[spike_scramble]

@slatch:

am i eligible to apply as a german citizen at the FAA? AFAIK they're just considering US citizens, right?

cheers spike

[slatch]

Federal Tax runs about 25% total on amounts like $190,000, California state tax runs about 7% total. Off course overall tax rate is lower on lower incomes. This is married two kids and a average mortgage which is deductable in the US. LIke I stated there are only a few controllers lucky enough to be at the pay cap. I would guess less than 1000 nationwide. Alot of the current controllers with around 10 years are frozen at aroiund $140,000 base pay. All new controllers will be making much less until NATCA gets back in gear. Yes you have to be a US citizen.

Example:

$190,000 Gross
$42,000 Fed Tax
$12,000 State Tax
$5,600 Solical Security Tax
$2,000 Medicare
$2,000 Retirement Contribution
$2,600 Health Care Contribution
$123,800 Net

[Radargod]

Here in sunny, crime ridden South Africa I earn roughly 4100$/3100Euro per month. I have 10 years TWR and 9 years App radar experience. Cost of bond for 3 bedroomed house in middle-class area is 1000$ per month(not deductable)

[spike_scramble]

@Radargod:

Are you talking about a gross or net salary? If it's the gross, I'd like to know how much is going for tax, insurance etc.... Thanks in advance.

Cheers Spike.

[makeapullup]

hi spike, maybe i can help, as an approach/area controller in Johannesburg with 5 years experience your net is approx 2500euro per month (this includes a station allowance of which Johannesburg has the highest in the country and all overtime and public holiday pay) . Tax is approx 38-40% and medical aid about 200 euro a month(of which the company contributes a % to) . These things are taken from your gross. Insurance and the likes differ from person to person. Obviously the net amount increases as the years of experience do.
hope it helps...:)

[EastCoaster]

Zasieki1, the answer to your question depends on who your prospective employer will be.
Any further info available - i.e. destination unit, position being offered, whether licence conversion required, etc?
P.M. me if you wish

[roswell]

tax, medical insurance and general cost of living is a killer throughout Europe is it not??

[OscarTango]

Tax in Belgium is up to 40 percent, Medical is very cheap ( 12,50 euro's month ), cost of living, well...houseprices are definatly on the rise.

Let's say an average income is about 1500 euro net...

So, as ATCO's we're really well off. Belgocontrol people are subject to the national income tax, Eurocontrol people are not ( thank God )...for Eurocontrol, internal Taxes,pension rights and medical amounts up to 30 percent of the gross income. Last year, I had around 105.000 euro gross, which left me with 65.000 net.

[jangler909]

I'd also like to know the figures in Ireland.

[prowler]

hey

with IAA the money is good between 80k - 93k EUROS for ATCO up to Team Leader..

but.....

IF you get to work with one of the local county airports, that is privately owned, & NOT RUN by IAA,, expect MUCH MUCH LESS!!

regards:ok:

[jangler909]

Thanks prowler. I guess those numbers are the gross pay - how much can one expect to have after taxes etc? I'm not sure if I understood correctly, but is 80k the starting salary for a new controller?? And is there much or any difference between tower and ACC-controllers?

[alwaysmovin]

I qualified as an atco in Ireland in 1999 and I made 69k last year, about 18k of that went on income tax and 2k on pay related social insurance. I also pay 1% of gross income for loss of licence insurance. You also have to take pension and health insurance out of this gross amount. It works out roughly 4000 net per month excl health care. However do remember when looking at these figures that Ireland is not a cheap place to live

[FrenchATCO]

Hi ,

here is the salary in French ACCs at the beginning of 2007 after the last agreement regarding the european licence:
ATCO fully qualified in any of the 5 ACCs in France : 6400 euros per month (before taxes cuts) at the time of the qualification and 9200 euros per month at the end of the carreer.
How much does it make in net salary ??
As we are in the civil service , we have a 15 % cut on these ammounts (social tax, retirement....) so 6400 becomes 5300 e/month and 9200e becomes 7800e/month . These figures are what we call "net salary" in France BUT after that depending on the number of people of your family we have the most important cut which is the "income tax". For a single it will represent 1000e per month for the "5300e/month net salary" so finally the REAL NET will be 4300e/month. For a single at the end of the carreer it will be 7800 - 1800 = 6000 e/month (the real NET salary).

[kiloquebec]

I'm not sure if anyone is interested in Canadian pay, but here it is.

We have a 10 year pay scale, it takes 11 years to get to the top. Our pay is made up of salary plus an allowance depending on the specific ACC.

I'm in my fourth year, and make 95,000 CAD (85,500 US) plus a 15,000 CAD Allowance (13,500 US) for a total of 110,000 CAD (99,000 CAD). This does not include eveningshift allowance ($9 per shift)/night shift allowance($16 per shift), holiday pay or instructor pay ($8.50 per hour). Monthly gross of 9,166 CAD (8,250 US).

Taxes vary greatly across Canada, depending on the province of residence. Also deducted from our gross pay is 9.5% pension, employment insurance, medical insurance (very little), life insurance and union dues. My take home pay (before overtime) is about $6000 CAD (5,400 US) per month.

We have lots of overtime available, it is paid at double-pay of our base salary (doesn't include our unit allowance). It is about $100 CAD per hour extra.

We work at 36 hour week, 26 days that we can book off as holiday per year (this goes up after year 8 and 15 I believe) and 15 sick days per year.

If this looks attractive to anyone, Nav Canada is always hiring! They would prefer having more staff so they don't have to pay us overtime! Most centres are short-staffed, but here in Vancouver most of us don't actually work short staffed because there are enough people willing to work overtime to fill in the holes.

[spike_scramble]

If this looks attractive to anyone, Nav Canada is always hiring! They would prefer having more staff so they don't have to pay us overtime!

@kiloquebec: just a question: Do I have to be a canadian citizen or am I eligible to apply as a German? By the way, I am TWR (RADAR) rated....

[kiloquebec]

You don't have to be Canadian. There is a section on the Nav Canada website pertaining to recruitment of foreign controllers

http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=en&Content=ContentDefinitionFiles\AboutUs\Careers\AirController s\default.xml

I know here at YVR ACC we work with guys from Australia, UK, Singapore, Lebanon, Russia etc. The more the merrier.

The Nav Canada website currently says they are only recruiting foreign controllers for high traffic tower positions only (Most likely Vancouver, Calgary or Toronto) ... But I know the ACCs are short staffed as well.

KQ

[FrenchATCO]

Question for Americans ATCOs : is it really true that you have a new scale pay since avout 2006 and that new ATCOs don't receive the same pay in comparison with colleagues working at the same facility ! ???
If it's true how could that happened ?
Thanks for your answers

[thorisgod]

If you include everything for a gross Irish salary in IAA all allowances etc. including option to take cash for public holidays instead of extra leave:
You will be on a 20 point scale and expect to earn
approx 55,000 euros at the bottom and 110,000 at the top.
that's 4600 euros/m to 9500/m gross

Tax is bad. Roughly 1st 20,000 at 21% everything after that at 42% with a credit of 2,000 against the final amount.

You are also paying 0.5% to union, 1% to loss of licence protection

Middle of the scale your net salary is 4500euros/m
But if you add in mortgage(expensive), utilities(expensive), life insurance(expensive)....you get the idea!.........
expect to have a disposable income of about 1000-1500euros/m but that's ok cos you have practically no chance to spend it as you can't get a bloody day off!:\

[slatch]

The FAA changed the Pay scales in 2006. They lowered the pay bands by as much as 35%. Controllers that were already above the band got their pay frozen. New controllers work under the new pay rules. So in the top centers we do have senior controllers making over $172,000 while newly checked out controllers make less than $100,000.

[SINGAPURCANAC]

Here we call it - discrimination.
Different salary for the same position.
If I understood properly.
Some difference could exist,like 0.5 % per year of service but 50 % is really motivated for youngsters.

[FrenchATCO]

Thanks Slatch,

it's really unbelievable !such a difference for the same job ! How could your main union Natca have agreed to sign that ???You never thought about going on strike or perhaps controllers in Natca are all seniors so knew they had nothing to lose ... Seems very strange from here in France.
Thanks for your answer

[SINGAPURCANAC]

On the same track,
We(my union and associated ATCA) didn't accept the difference between ATCOs with university degree bachelor,MBA or DBA level,as well ,either connected or not with aviation and secondary school ATCOs.

As long as they working the same job- the same salary.

Things change at management level but there is also( not in my company) in surrounding ANSPs cases that qualified ATCO with secondary education earns more money than someone with university degree. Why?
Because, union said: If you work as an ATCO 12 or 15 years,than you may choose: ATCO salary with 15(12) years of experience or salary as someone with university degree. In most cases people opt for the first case. salary is better,definitely. Also if you move to some lower position you may retain your ATCO salary.
I also have in mind that here in Europe people are more concerned and prefer social type of state. USA is more profit-without love.

[slatch]

NATCA did not agree to the new pay policy. Federal law stated that if the FAA and NATCA could not come to agreement and Congress did not take any action (which they did not) the FAA's last offer becomes the agreement. NATCA has been fighting it with little sucess.

[Short Approach?]

A mid-career ATCO in Copenhagen TWR/APP or ACC will make around €10.000 a month. Tax is a bitch (50%) and cost of living among the highest in the world, so we are still not smiling. :cool:

[whippet075]

Hi, Can anyone tell me what the Salaries and working conditions in Spain are. As a Radar Approach controller in Australia, I am looking at moving to Spain in the future.
If anyone is interested the Salaries here converted to Euros are: 43,977 to 88,701 plus superannuation. Overtime is payed at 185%, Average Tax rate on the top salary is about 32%, a litre of petrol is 0.88 Euros and a Big Mac is 1.58 Euros.
Any other info on Spanish ATC (like if you need a European passport) would be much appreciated.

[OscarTango]

Dont' know about the salaries, but there's no way that you can get in (E)Spain... even the spanish controllers at Eurocontrol don't make it in there ( wihout a university degree ).

You need to have a university degree, and speak Spanish fluently. They have a language test that they make so difficult, a non-native won't make it.

The Spanish guys at Euro, are all in the university for some course to fulfill the first need, and obvioulsy, they will pass the language test.

The conditions are appearantly the best in the world, salary and time-wise...hence the guys over at Euroc. want to go back to Spain.

But, I hope I'm wrong and that you can find a hole in the net. Did you have any contact with people over in Spanish ATC ?

[Slo Moe]

I have good memories visiting a Spanish ACC 7-8 years ago.

I was warmly welcomed, the people were very friendly
(also to each other), the breaks could be enjoyed as a team
underneath a lemon tree. And yes the salaries were somewhat
abundant. The work environment was calm despite the fact
that there were moderate to heavy traffic flowing on the
"older tubes". They were going to move to a new facility
within the same year. I must say that the gym there was
fantastic! I do not know were tey joking, when they said
they were planning for a pool outside...
The restaurant they had had waitresses,
the food was very tasty. Work and breaks were relaxed.
The way it should be.

Thank you Spain and Spanish ATCOs for good and warm memories!

They have been able to do it.

[OscarTango]

True, collegue of mine visited the centre, and was amazed by the working environment. Especially the restaurant... all compared to our own wonderfull :E cantine and facilities at Maastricht UAC :suspect:

Seems like a great deal, warm weather, good conditions, amazing salary etc... I guess that's the reason why they don't have their door open for every ATCO that wants to join. If it would be easy, I'd be there tomorrow :\

[Slo Moe]

Yup OscarTango.

ATCOs heaven on earth.

And the point is not the salary or the amount
of ATCOs on the seats.

It was the friendly and balanced atmosphere.
People can be friendly to each other.
I've seen it with my bare eyes.:ooh:

[ISaidRightTurns]

You can come to Atlanta.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/popup?id=3719760

The trash cans catch the rain..until the ceiling falls out. In the control room.

Pics in the above link.

[055166k]

Don't worry buddy, you're not alone. London ACC Swanwick uses buckets rather than trash cans in heavy downpours. We have about three big leaks, but the real worry is a huge cracked portion of the Glass Roof.......been broken for years.....I always carry a bible in my work-bag.

[Slo Moe]

I truly believe that all ATCOs deserve the best working conditions
and the best equipment available. And the best and most
positive workmates. And the best managers.

And the best and most relaxed beaches with the softest sand and...

[Quokka]

Short Approach?, is Copenhagen ACC recruiting foreign Area controllers?

[Short Approach?]

Short Approach?, is Copenhagen ACC recruiting foreign Area controllers?

Yes. But you gotta learn the language, as all internal coordination and com. with local VFR's is done in Danish

[Slo Moe]

This is just on the verge of "off topic"

The spanish ATCOs might have shifted their thinking
away from the things that they do not want
to the very things that they want.

I heard a story about an ANSP manager who visited the Portuguese ANSP.
He asked the Portuguese hosts, that isn't it somewhat a challenge, when
the salaries of the ATCOs are so good.

The reply showed very good understanding that we really live in abundance:
"Not a problem my friend. We raise our salaries also!"

So the wisdom from the wise from our past is:
"What you resist, persist"
By Carl Jung.

Although there is quite a lot good info in the net, be
careful about those "bits&bytes" you do not want.

So the advice can be said also this way:
"Think and focus only on the outcome that you want."

[Moira]

Maybe you can find more info via the Spanish ATC-forum: http://www.limaeco.net

[thealps]

Monthly sallary in Switzerland for an ACC controller with 10 years experience is about 15.000 Swiss Francs = about 10.000 Euros (gross).

The deductions are; about 2.000 Sfr pension, taxes about 2.500 Sfr, private health insurance about 200-400 Sfr.

This adds up to a net sallary of about 10.000 Swiss Francs = about 6.500 Euros.

However, the cost of living here is quite high with everything from housing to big macs...

Nevertheless, you're very well of with the payment.

Cheers!

[Bill Woodfull]

Greetings, salutations, a nice cold beer after work, and warm heart to share it with to my fellow Controllers in Europe.

Just thought I'd pop this thread back up there and ask the controllers of Avinor (Norway), Naviair (Denmark) and Aena (Spain) what their current pay and conditions are (?). I'm most interested in your salary, tax rate and rate for overtime.

I'm not in the market to come over but am rather exasperated with my employer and am thinking of a few years in Dubai or leaving the business and want to find 1 (just one) ANSP that treats its traffic separating employees really well and your respective ANSPs came to mind.

I really should go to an IFATCA conference one day and meet you lot in person.

Thanks from the Antepodes!

[Rule3]

Why are you interested in European salaries if you are contemplating Dubai?:confused: If you haven't already applied to Dubai I think you've missed the Bus. Abu Dhabi {APP and TWR} or UAE Centre {Area, ARR and lots of sequencing, and loads of overfliers} suggest you get your skates on or you'll be "caught'' short.:O

[Bill Woodfull]

As-salaam alaykum Rule 3,

Why are you interested in European salaries if you are contemplating Dubai? I understand that one of those ANSPs (and possible the French) operate under attractive T+Cs and I want to poke someone in the ribs locally and say 'look what they are getting from their altruistic employer' etc. No cunning plan I'm afraid.

Don't speak Norwegian, Danish or Spanish so no chance of a job for me (I can however order a bottle of wine or a glass of beer in French without getting a punch on the beak).

If you haven't already applied to Dubai I think you've missed the Bus.The tattered and aged copy of 'Flight' I was reading in my private place yesterday sugeested that Al Maktoum Int airport(JXB - formerly Jebel Ali World something or another) has only just finished its first of six planned parrallels, has almost completed its freight facility, is working on the first of its terminals and the new swish 90m control TWR and ATC complex isn't complete yet.

The said publication may have missed the mark but with DXB staying open and the new facility not yet running and the extraordinary ammount of traffic it expects to move as it ramps up over the next 10 years, I'm guessing 100ish extra headsets at least.

Please tell me that those extra bodies have not already turned up and you have 8 dozen sitting around playing cribbage in the rest/crew room?

[Rule3]

Jebel Ali is like Dubai,:{ a :mad:work in progress.:ugh: It is a completely separate contract, and I believe several Ozmates:ok: have thrown their "hats in the ring". Still room for an old "Baggy Green":D

[Bill Woodfull]

Good to hear mate!

I understood that DXB courses were full but this JXB thingy is such an unknown quantity and picking up a dozen dozen (not a typo - I meant 144) Tower, Approach and Enroute controllers from the coin operated training facilities that are a little on the blink lately from an employers perspective - I think I should give my employer the final chance this Christmas.

As long as I don't have to cross that cad Mr Jardine or the false platitudes of Plum Warner anymore, I may grace your shores...we never know.

I hear you are getting some good ex-baggy green but solid top and middle order types your way in the next few months.:D

[hunterboy]

I've got a brother in law working at Torrejon, Madrid as an area controller. Fantastic T's and C's, own golf course, swimming pool, rest facilities better than some hotels i've stayed in.....17000 euros a month, with 14 or 15 months salary I believe. Nice work if you can get it. Puts my lowly Captains' salary to shame. BTW, I saw some of the ATC tests and failed the English language test ( I'm a native English speaker)

[Bill Woodfull]

Are you serious?

Thanks for the info mate, 'tis what makes pprune what it is.

Thats the sort of numbers I have heard in days gone by. The fact that no Spaniard ever applies for foreign gigs doesn't help our info gathering.

If true Spanish friends, good on you!!

[GetTheFlick]

Question for Americans ATCOs : is it really true that you have a new scale pay since avout 2006 and that new ATCOs don't receive the same pay in comparison with colleagues working at the same facility ! ???
If it's true how could that happened ?

FrenchATCO,

Two words -- George Bush.

There is no contract -- no signed agreement. There are only "Imposed Work Rules."

It is illegal to strike or engage in any type of job action for U.S. Government employees. That is the reason President Reagan was allowed to fire all the PATCO controllers in 1981.

If you find it hard to understand from over there, imagine being over here. :sad: The only legal recourse an individual has is to retire or quit. Controllers are doing both in record numbers.

I retired in 2006 when the Imposed Work Rules were implemented. My pay was roughly $150,000 (per year) the year I retired -- after 25 years at the Atlanta ARTCCenter.

Don Brown

[flowman]

I can verify the sums that hunterboy refers to. It gets even better....
We used to have quite a few Spaniards working here as flow controllers. If you leave here before you have completed 10 years you get all your pension contributions back (normally so you can buy a pension in your home country). AENA continued to pay their controllers' contributions back home, so when they left to go back home they got to keep the lot. On top of that their seniority continued to progress as if they had never left Spain.
Guess what, there are no more Spanish flow controllers here!
Those Spanish unions certainly know how to negotiate :ok:

[Bill Woodfull]

Buen trabajo a mis colegas españoles de la unión del ATC. Si solamente teníamos testículos grandes como los suyos aquí en Australia.

[SINGAPURCANAC]

Those Spanish unions certainly know how to negotiate
Certanly,
But at the top of everything I think that it is more "cultural","regional",and 'political" indentity issue.
It might be diffucult to explain but I will try.
There are at least two different approach to life. "Northern" and "South".
Also many others "types" and 'subtypes" exist but for this issue those two are the most interesting.
If we compare just two recent cases USA and Spain it will be easily understood.
USA- understuffed,No possibility for industrial action,too much work, no holidays(or just seven days per year) ,very bad enter salary and so on.
Spain- quite opposite.
Have they achieved it only with union negotiations or something else?
Something elese is key.
I am living in South Europe,but I have an opportunity to see other side of story.
i can't understand sentence (here on pprune pages): my manager canceled my holiday,a few days before holiday starts.
I would like to see that manager(here in SE) who would do it more than once:E!
Easy way of life is something more ussual here.
It is very indicative that many of "Northern" ANSPs has simmilar problems, I will name just a few of them: FAA,NAV Canada, Avinor,Denmark,IAA, DFS, Austrocontrol... All of them are connected to similar problems:understuffed and everything related to this issue.
I have been informed recently (more informal) that Austrocontrol union accept next sentence in their new contracts: Minimum working hours e.g.156 maximum not determined. correct me if I am wrong but if it is true just explain me what are difference between slaves and Austrian ATCOs.
Also I will add to those group of countries two very South (from my point of view :)) Australia and NZ. But they belong to "Northern" type.Very similar cases with very similar solutions.
What is the most interesting for me is the fact that citizens of above mentined countries are in quite better position than myself. They have possibility to move whenever they want especially if they are ATCOs. I will give you two days of my life to undestand what kind of possibilities you have to consider as a good will of mighties.
But I will never understand union and associations that allow things like we may see and read at those pages. TIBA,chronic understuffed,no holidays, call on day off, single person operations, more than 2/3 hours on frequency without rest,non competetive salaries ...
I think that only people living and working in such enviroment could change it.
But changes must occur in their heads.
If they realise that living is more important than working! :ok:

To avoid any missunderstanding I sometimes regret over the fact that some solution in my contract are never close to Norvegian one but I am going every my dayli shift to drink coffe in the town 5 km away.
There may be only three reasons to omit such "procedure"
1.I am on my holiday leave
2.I am on my day off
3. My contract has expired:E
I will appreciate other side of story if any,to correct myself in future.

[Bill Woodfull]

My French speaking buddies tell me that my verb conjugation in the said classic language is soooo bad I'm better with english (most of Europe are Latin based 'classic' languages for any not thus acquainted).With that in mind (your reverse translation) and the fact that you are Portuguese (sim???) why can't you join AENA if you can speak Spanish?

[SINGAPURCANAC]

and the fact that you are Portuguese (sim???)
I wasn't so lucky!:{

are Latin based 'classic' languages
latin language has considerable influence to my language but root is on the other side.:=
why can't you join AENA
I can't decide which unit. Palma,Gran Canaria,Pamplona, Valencia or Gibra..(ups!):):E:)

Best regards from sunny Europe.

[pjresq]

Does anyone know anything about the jobs going at DFS (Germany). Are they a good or bunch to work for? What is the work like? etc etc.

:confused:

[FrenchATCO]

Hi

Gettheflick : thanks for your answer. Still incredible from France what happens in the States but for sure if it's illegal for you to gon on strike on that it's more difficult...Hope for your colleagues Obama will change that !

To give the figures for French ATCOs ONLY in ACCs :
- just after the qualification : 5400e / NET monthly salary (after all deductions except income tax salary which is 1000é/month for a single person) (so 4400 FULLY NET)
- approximately 8000e/ month NET at the end of the career. (before income tax)

[kontrolor]

Slovenia - ACC arround 3500 € after tax
APP 2500-3000 €
TWR 2000-2500 €

depending on position and age of course.

[dimdelu]

does anyone know what about extra duties at eurocontrol ?

Do you have extra paid ? or extra vacation ? one hour extra = one hour extra vacation ? or more ?

thanks a lot :ok:

[eagleflyer]

DFS is a good company to work for! The grass is always greener elsewhere it seems, but in my view it´s one of the best companies I could imagine working for. Management is as crappy as everywhere else but seems to be the case with every company employing more than 500 people.

The pay is very good for German standards, I would say in the top 5% of employees pay range. I´m in my thirties and started about 10 yrs ago, last years pay before tax was 120k+. In fact they paid me more than 130k, but that was a one-time-effect.

We work a mixed roster of 4-4 and 5-3, 220 days per year. Take your 30 days holidays plus extra time off for nights and public holidays plus occasional sick days and you will find yourself to end up at work on less days than at home!

A lot of guys still complain and whine a lot but I really think some of them have lost touch to the real world.

I would recommend applying to DFS, but don´t get yourself told into the first contract they´ll offer you...you´d be nuts to take it.

[Jagohu]

There used to be time or money compensation for extras... I think it's only money now, but if ur working at MUAC go to the Roster Office and check with them...

[AGNES]

Here are the pay scales of Hong Kong ATCO.

Junior ATCO (non-radar rated) USD4200 to 6200 per month.

Senior ATCO (radar rated) USD6470 to 12700 plus 1920 housing allowance per month.

The annual income tax is around 10%. A Big Mac costs about USD2 in Hong Kong.

[Cafe City]

Senior ATCO (radar rated) USD6470 to 12700 plus 1920 housing allowance per month.



Is that before or after your 5.4% pay cut?

The annual income tax is around 10%.

Sounds a bit on the low side! More like 15% on that sort of money isn't it?

[dimdelu]

If I am belgian living in Belgium but working in the Netherlands at eurocontrol. Can I have the expatriate status ?
Or do I also need to live in the netherlands ?

Does someone know the conditions to get it ?

thanks :ok:

[aaesteve]

FrenchATCO,

Two words -- George Bush.

There is no contract -- no signed agreement. There are only "Imposed Work Rules."

It is illegal to strike or engage in any type of job action for U.S. Government employees. That is the reason President Reagan was allowed to fire all the PATCO controllers in 1981.

If you find it hard to understand from over there, imagine being over here. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gif The only legal recourse an individual has is to retire or quit. Controllers are doing both in record numbers.

I retired in 2006 when the Imposed Work Rules were implemented. My pay was roughly $150,000 (per year) the year I retired -- after 25 years at the Atlanta ARTCCenter.

Don Brown
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=4331202) http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/reply_small.gif (http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4331202&noquote=1)


UNBELIEVABLE!!!

I'm really sorry to read this. I feel for you. I'm sorry you had to retire from such a beautiful job because of those incredibly abusive conditions. I would have done the same thing.

And that's supposed to be the land of freedom and democracy!?

Maybe here in Spain we would have all resigned next morning and let's see if they use teachers and mailmen to control the traffic. Of course, this is easier said than done, but with 96% of the ATCOs in the same union it's feasible.

[TWR]

Is it just me or are Belgocontrol salaries low compared to other institutions such as Eurocontrol?

Eurocontrol salaries are ridiculously high (as with any "Euro"-institution).
Belgocontrol salaries are comparable with other Western-European ATCO salaries but the taxation in Belgium is grotesque...

[mcstiofan]

Not Europe but still...

Anybody got latest China figures?

[Lon More]

Eurocontrol salaries are ridiculously high When you consider that there are no tax deductions possible they are not as high as they once seemed

[dimdelu]

What kind of deduction would you like to do? I have a belgian salary. From my house credit, I can deduct 2800 per year, and because my income is taxed up to 50%, I can get back 50% of that amount each year. Namely, thanks to this deduction, I get 1400 euros back from the state each year. In other word, it is like if I earned 120 euros more per month... hum hum, compared to eurocontrol salaries.... it means nothing!!

What do you wanna deduct else?

In Eurocontrol, if you have 2 children and a non working wife, you'll get about 1500 euros extra per month? In belgium, guess how many? 342 euros!!!
So deduction or not, it is nothing compared to such salaries and Eurocontrol still has very good salaries

[levelD]

So what exactly kept you from applying to Eurocontrol dimdelu ? :hmm:

[ALEX_V]

Salary in Russia.
Hi, if it's interesting for someone.
There's a class system here in Russia. We start with the class 3 which followed by 2 and 1. They pay 20% more for each class and it takes about 3 years to get next class.
Pay is vary greatly across the country depending on the region, the far norh or east The higher salary. It's from 1,000US/month up to 4,000US/month for class 3 and from 1,500US/month up to 5,500US/month for fully qualified ATCs. The only tax is 13% for everyone.
Here we work 36 hours a week and have 55-85 days off as vacation per year, depending on the region.

[Una Due Tfc]

This thread was a massive mistake and will be used to beat us for years

[hiltonbaby]

Strangely quiet from those in the southern hemisphere a little right of the search for Mas370.

[kpnagidi]

Perhaps this has something to do with the fact this is a thread called "Monthly ATCOs salaries in Europe (http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/249107-monthly-atcos-salaries-europe-6.html#post8452772)" :hmm:

[N90-EWR]

Since this thread is a bit old, can anyone care post what would be the annual gross income for a veteran journeyman controller at the top of the pay band, in whichever is the highest paying busy facility in Europe?

Just looking to compare to what our top earning veterans at the busy facilities here make.

[middles]

£100grand ish at Swanwick for top of the working ATCO grade including OJTI and examiner.

[TC_Ukraine]

now in Ukraine after taxes (tax rate 30%):
trainee - 120USD/month
ATCO - from 400 to 600USD/month (20+ years of service)
Supervisor - 750USD/month
__________
apartment rent in Kyiv costs apx 150-300$. If u want to buy one - 'd pay at least 50000$.
cars are more expensive than in most European countries (prices are 40% higher than in USA). 1 liter of gas (1/4 gallon)= 90 cents.
The only cheap thing is public transportation (subway and local buses cost just 15-20 cents).

[kcockayne]

TC Ukraine

I presume that is US Dollars. Seems very little to me; unless your cost of living is VERY low !

[samotnik]

Value of Ukrainian currency has dropped by 60% over last year.

[SINGAPURCANAC]

it might be interesting too, the lowest ATCO salaries.
My first salary as ATCO trainee was 44 DEM ( deutch marks ) back in late 90'.
:}

[Satellite Man]

Ahhh.. if I told you about the good old times, heheheee

[TC_Ukraine]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/957x595/salary_5b273fc334325db9bb4d280bb11d5f15f559e30f.jpg

[flightsearch]

Source of that statistic?

[TC_Ukraine]

Source of that statistic?
https://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/default/files/publication/files/final-ace-2016-benchmarking-report.pdf

[alfaman]

That's not salary; that's costs, not the same thing. Misleading without the accompanying context.

[ACC1]

Hello everybody,
Let me to introduce myself, I have worked as an ATC en-route over Moldova FIR,close to Ukraine and Romania and I want to say my monthly wages was 450 euro ten years ago
I have worked 3 years and left, I am in England now and I want to work at Swanwick Area Control Centre,
so, shortly Can I find any ATC school in Bournemouth?

I will appreciate any answers,
Thanks a lot, Have a nice day,
Vasile

[BwatchGRUNT]

Bournemouth ATC school moved to Whiteley Hampshire several years ago, now located around 2-3 miles from Swanwick

[TC_Ukraine]

Ukraine: zero.