LEEDS -3 [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

14 loop

5th Oct 2006, 09:34

A300BOY
By my reckoning MAN now has 23 routes and LBA has 26 from Jet2.
I don't see the whole Jet2 story as a M v L thing anymore. Look at the pax figures and you'll see that both bases can co-exist quite happily.
Now, I believe when MAPLC approached Jet2 in the first place their opening gambit was a straight transfer of the Leeds routes to Manchester which thankfully Jet2 declined. Quite sensibly they took-up the offer of a base however and the rest is history.
Let's hope that Bradford Council do the right thing (my parents are Bfd Council taxpayers!) so we can see some developments on CatII ILS for runway 14 and RSEA works around the 32 threshold.
BTW Did anyone see that pathetic journalism on BBC Look North last night? Reason NOT to sell the airport....it will disturb my golf swing!

14 loop

5th Oct 2006, 17:47

Breaking news....Bradford Council Executive approve sale, just awaiting the full Council to nod through the decision. Keep 'em crossed!

LBIA

5th Oct 2006, 18:13

Breaking News - Updated

Well its official. Bradford Council have now agreed to the sale of its 40% of Leeds/Bradford Airport

Heres the official press release from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/5410708.stm. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/5410708.stm)

The sale of Leeds Bradford Airport to the private sector will go ahead after the move was given the green light by Bradford Council.
The authority, which owns 40% of the airport, agreed to the sale after a full council meeting on Thursday.

Leeds City Council has already agreed to sell its 40% stake, along with other shareholders Kirklees, Calderdale and Wakefield councils.

The sale of the airport could be completed by spring next year.

'Hard realities'

Deputy leader of Bradford Council, Dale Smith, said the authority's decision had not been forced on it by the other shareholders which had already agreed to the sale.

He said: "We have taken this decision looking at hard commercial realities.

"We wish to see the airport move into the 21st century. We are not hanging on anyone else's coat-tails here."

Mr Smith said any estimate of what the airport could be worth was "speculation", but figures in the region of £40m have been reported.

He said: "Any money into the council tax payers' coffers is obviously welcome."

Safeguards for future

After Leeds Council announced its decision last month, councillor Andrew Carter said there were development constraints while the airport was publicly owned.

He said: "The airport business is complex and we believe this sort of commercial risk is more suited to the private sector."

But, he said, the authority would ask for safeguards about the future of the airport.

Leeds Bradford International Airport was originally Yeadon Aerodrome, which began operating in October 1931. The five local authorities took over its ownership in 1987.

The airport currently serves 60 direct destinations and was used by more than 2.5m passengers in 2005.

BombardierCR7

5th Oct 2006, 19:25

This is undoubtedly good news, although unsurprising, I guess we will have to suffer the "Bradford" part of the airport name for a few years to come, which may be not a bad thing as Bradford has now started to trigger its regeneration as a city on the back of its regional rival.

£40m seem's low for an airport doing just under 3m pax, with an average growth rate of 10% per month over the last 2 yrs, which is a couple of percent higher than its new South Yorkshire rival. I guess this is a "net" figure...ie pure asset value at present, excluding the well known investment requirements needed for LBA. I am speculating, but i guess the true value that the airport will be sold with will be at the level that either one "side" will invest. E&Y, claim that there "is a significant interest in the airport".

682amsl, as a respected contibutor, any comments?

14 loop

5th Oct 2006, 20:49

My understanding is that a condition of sale will be a continuation of the LBA name....quite right too! Let's not start a L v B debate.....we have enough on our plates supporting LBA with MAN of old and more recently DSA without local infighting!

I note that a DSA forum (hosted elsewhere) has had a bit of Donny v Shef in the recent past...there are bigger fights to fight for all of us Tykes..even if we are away on missionary work down south!

682ft AMSL

5th Oct 2006, 20:51

Thanks for the kind words CR7.

I believe the £36m number quoted (rounded up to £40m by the media!) represents the net balance sheet of the company at the moment, i.e. the net book value of its assets less liabilities. As an indicator of the likely sales price, it is next to useless given any deal is going to be transacted on the profit generating potential of the business over the mid-long term + the capital growth of the business.

The last LBA-esque airport to move out of council control was NCL back in spring 2001. Then Copenhegan Airports Group paid £145m for a 49% stake in the business at a time when the airport was just above the 3m pax p/a threshold. Allowing for the fact the price will have factored in the lack of a controlling interest, that valued the airport at c.£300m in total. On balance a similar valuation for LBA today is not unrealistic. On the up side is the fact the regional aviation business has grown since 2001, the fact LBA is the last remaining opportunity of its size in the UK and the clear evidence of a significant amount of the local catchment currently using MAN. On the downside, capitalising on the potential of the business needs investment in the airport landside and airside infrastructure and improved transport links.

Interestingly, Ernst & Young also acted for the authorities in the North East and it was they who brokered the NCL deal with Copenhegan.

With the political obstacles out of the way, the fundamental question is who will bid and will the authorities select the "right" bidder.

682

14 loop

5th Oct 2006, 21:13

Given that both Leeds and Bradford councils have significant Tory presences....one expects that there have been some back room conversations about possible buyers..however....
Peel & MAPLC - both out on competition issues.
Macquarie - poss and my favourite.
Copenhagen Airports group - poss, but given S&Ps statement last week?
TBI (abertis) - poss, particularly given their geographic spread - a nice addition.
Ferrioval (BAA) - poss, but have probably got bigger fish to fry with the break-up of BAA.
Anyway...interesting times ahead!!

niknak

5th Oct 2006, 22:33

The EEC recently decided that Paris Orly and CDG were sufficiantly far apart not to count as "competetiive under EEC rules", so if Peel or MAN PLC felt so inclined, they could put in a bid.
MAcquarie - possibly, but they have a lot of investment tied up elsewhere and probaly couldn't afford it.
TBI - no spare cash, wouldn have to borrow heavily against one of their other airports - not permitted by CAA regulations.
Ferovial - No.
The Germans??????

BombardierCR7

5th Oct 2006, 22:52

682, thanks for u comments, i am in agreement, but i am a bit concerned of E&Y being involved from personal experience, plus i do not see the similarities between LBA and NCL.....ie NCL with a captured catchment area, and LBA with a fluid catchment area..but i guess this will come out in the wash....

14 Loop, Think outside the box...does it need to be one of the "usuals", there have been various documented and undocumented rumours...right from Fraport and AENA in the aviation industry, thru Babcock's, and Shepherd's in the construction industry, thru to locals like Jan Fletcher and KW Linfoot in the developer industry as potentials. I guess we will be a million miles away from the eventual buyer, should there be one, when the deal is eventually done.

I think the next 6-8 month will be very interesting

14 loop

5th Oct 2006, 22:57

14 loop

5th Oct 2006, 23:05

Bom CR7...quite happy to accept other bidders...Fraport & AENA are particularly good infrastructure investors...familiar with Babcocks but not Shepherds.
Anyway, this thread will expand over the next few months...will be good to watch.

BombardierCR7

5th Oct 2006, 23:08

'so if Peel or MAN PLC felt so inclined, they could put in a bid'
Bid they can, but my mole however (close to one of the council executives) suggests there was some worry about selling to the wrong people. He says there are some very anti-Peel / MAPLC feelings within [I]one[I] council to ensure that a sale to either of these parties is unlikely.
Likewise, if you were a bear would you sh** in the w**ds?
I think other players will stump up better money rather than pay over the odds and dilute existing, competing, airports...read Peel (DSA, MME) and MAPLC (HUY, EMA and of course MAN).
Peel and MAG can of course put in bids, but from what i understand they will need to prove they have sorted any competition issues and have certificates to prove from the EU.
Of course they can do that, how easy that is will depend on how well they prove that.

TANGO100

6th Oct 2006, 14:41

Interesting times indeed my friends, reading through the lines of all your guesses, I have a little niggle about the Spaniards.
Remember London city was up for sale, one company pulled out from the bidding, I guess the price was getting a little silly - £750m they offered
But I reckon their still looking for an airport to buy so putting 2 and 2 together the Spanish construction group Sacyr Vallehermoso could be a runner.
Either way, I bet the bids are already on the table !!

A300BOY

6th Oct 2006, 16:38

SWBKCB

6th Oct 2006, 17:25

Aside from the operational shortcomings already mentioned, the thing which really needs sorting at LBA is access. The place is just too difficult to get to - and that isn't going to come cheap.

robo283

6th Oct 2006, 20:10

Hear hear SWBKCB! Access is absolutely diabolical. No prospect for a rail route without a rack-and-pinion contraption, and nowhere to put a decent dual carriageway without dehousing the residents of Horsforth / Yeadon or demolishing the Golf Course. I drive past LBA every day and it's only ever easy if I want to get to work at 0700hrs. Even an access road won't solve the problems of trying to get anywhere in West Yorkshire at anything other than snail's pace.

I can't see Jet2 wanting to relocate just at the moment. The pain of moving the HQ from BOH to LBA isn't yet fully sorted so moving lock, stock and barrel to DSA isn't a realistic option. Also, the current business model hasn't gone down the LH route so, by and large, the runway isn't a problem. Yes, the whole industry is a hostage to fortune, but it always has been so 'so far, so good' (touch wood).

682ft AMSL

8th Oct 2006, 17:05

I think the sale was probably instigated as a result of an offer or enquiry made to them. If we get the right buyer I am sure with the operational issues of the Ils upgrade and runway length, resolved we can give our competitor airfield a run for there money, but they are in the driving seat at the moment and in a very strong position regarding long haul flights. I dread to think what would be the result of Jet 2 pulling out or having financial problems.

If by "Our competitor airfield" you mean DSA then consider this.

If 50% of the passengers passing through DSA originate from the LBA core catchment area, there is potential lost business of 0.4m passengers per year.

If 10% of the passengers passing through MAN originate from the LBA core catchment area, there is potential lost business of 2.2m passengers per year.

I'd be very surprised if anything like 50% of DSA's traffic was from in and around the LBA heartland and I'd be equally surprised if the % using MAN wasn't above 10%. In short, the new management will (I hope) be focussing on where the biggest threat and biggest opportunities are and unless there is a sudden and significant change in the DSA schedules, it will continue be 70 miles west along the M62.

682

wawkrk

8th Oct 2006, 20:58

I always wonder by how much they can extend the runway at LBA.
Gordon Dennison once told me that if they had known about it, the runway could have been long enough to allow BA Concordes to land.
This is why the first landing was by Air France as BA said it was too short.
However, then there must have been a change in BA operational rules and as we all know, BA eventually came to LBA with Concorde.
For sure, an extension at 32 end is the most desirable. This could probably be 190m taking the full length up to 2440m (8000ft) But, if you look at the land heights on Google Earth at the 14 end, even 1200m (4000ft) is possible.
Ridiculas I know and not needed. But, my point is this. We have restricted take off on 32 because of the Chevin. But, what if there was more than enough runway available for a 14 take off even with a strong tail wind, would this not solve all the problems.
My reasoning being the example of the now closed Kai Tak airport
(Hong Kong).
I cannot recall any of the endless stream of Jumbos taking off towards the sky Scrapers of Kowloon.Surely, a worse problem than the Chevin.

SASfox

11th Oct 2006, 17:18

Goldtrail Holidays have put Dalaman and Bodrum on sale for next summer. DLM will again be a Monday morning departure with Onur Air while the BJV moves to Monday evening again on Onur Air. Both will run for the full summer season...hopefully!

BombardierCR7

12th Oct 2006, 08:51

Toulouse is now showing in the Jet2 booking engine.

Weekly flight on a Saturday from mid May07

lorddee

18th Oct 2006, 17:53

Intresting see todays flight psa-dsa diverted to lba .Does DSA not have full catIII.What happened to outbnd flight

BombardierCR7

18th Oct 2006, 18:36

Doncaster's FR Pisa has diverted to LBA last Friday, and again today. DSA is only CATI until early next year when it will be CATIIIa on rwy 20.
The outbound flights were cancelled.

wawkrk

19th Oct 2006, 14:31

Does anybody know why the management decided to erect 2 buildings on the best part of the apron and force more aircraft onto remote stands.
Then, spend more money to build new stands.
There is plenty of space to put these big sheds elsewhere like on the grassed area to the side.

perky35

19th Oct 2006, 19:00

DSA have also lost the Easyjet Geneva flight for next year according to my sources...

graham

POL1W

19th Oct 2006, 21:45

Thought this was the Leeds thread.:=

wawkrk

19th Oct 2006, 21:51

Which bunch of muppets gave permission for such a low class Hotel (sort of)
to be built in such a prime location.
I remember one idiot councillor saying it will be a big boost for flight crews.
Which flight crews?
I believe the inmates must walk to the airport in order to feed.
Lets hope the new owners of LBA will discard all this rubbish including the previously mentioned apron sheds and Hall B shed.
(sorry, in bad mood and anti shed today)
wawkrk

jet2impress

19th Oct 2006, 23:50

Would be shocked if any airline used it as a crew hotel. No good at all if food is not available 24 hours a day!

wawkrk

20th Oct 2006, 04:49

Any comments?

Did I miss something ?

http://www.holidaycityeurope.com/travelodge-leeds-bradford-airport/map.html

http://www.holidaycityeurope.com/travelodge-leeds-bradford-airport/

14 loop

20th Oct 2006, 11:44

That certainly doesn't look like the Travelodge I stayed in at LBA last year!!! Perfectly acceptable for punters....save the walk to Murgatroyds for some decent fish and chips!

wawkrk

20th Oct 2006, 12:25

Old news I know but is this a joke.
WORK STARTS ON MAJOR NEW HOTEL AT LEEDS BRADFORD AIRPORT
18 May 2004

CONSTRUCTION work is underway on a new multi-million pound Travelodge hotel
THIS IS THE MULTI MILLION POUND MAJOR HOTEL ?

http://www.lbia.co.uk/newsandupdates-newsstory.php?storyid=20041022

Reckon I would ask for my money back.

Cant blame them for showing a false map and a Hotel in some other city.

wawkrk

23rd Oct 2006, 19:45

Much has been written about TUI dropping LBA as a base and now a rash of other airports also.Should this create any panic?
I dont think so, except maybe in TUI management.
In my opinion its a case of closing the door after the horse has bolted.
TUI have been caught with their pants down by the meteoric rise of outfits like Jet2. More a case of Bambi in the headlights methinks.
Their latest strategy (assuming they had one in the past) is to create a few fortresses at selected airports.
If you take LBA as an example, even in the Thomson good old days, their programme would have taken 6 years to equal 1 year of Jet 2.
And this is only the beginning. They have totally missread the market.
They knew that LBA flights were always amongst the best supported.
Leeds is the 3rd biggest city in the UK after London and Birmingham. They are only at DSA because of no competition.
They are in danger of becoming a charter version (or ex) of BMI.
I think they are totally bewildered.Their business model died and nobody spotted it. At the end of the day, the market is customer driven.
wawkrk

HOODED

23rd Oct 2006, 20:45

Wawkrk, agreed in toto. Sadly having lost the plot they moved in at DSA and as a result will cream off some LBA pax who do not wish to build their own holiday using Jet2. However as you point out the all in package is dwindling in favour of the Loco's but there is still a substantial market there, just look at MAN LGW etc. As long as Jet2 and LBA under new ownership continue to grow I dont really care what happens to TUI given the way they have treated the LBA pax over the years. Far too many diversions to MAN when everyone else was landing, I'm told it was nothing to do with the crew being MAN based. Surely on the technical diversions to MAN it would have been cheaper to send engineers in a van to LBA rather than coach 200+ pax across!

Northern Hero

23rd Oct 2006, 22:10

Quoting WAWKRK 'Leeds is the 3rd biggest city in the UK after London and Birmingham' Unquote

..............And Manchester, Glasgow, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Belfast, Newcastle...........:confused:

Going loco

23rd Oct 2006, 22:25

haven't we been here hundreds of times before in hundreds of different threads. And isn't the conclusion always that it's a matter of definition;

http://www.lovemytown.co.uk/Populations/TownsTable1.htm
http://www.lovemytown.co.uk/Populations/CouncilsTable1.htm

RobT100

24th Oct 2006, 02:42

I think what a lot of people don't realise is that travel agents are now using firms like Jet2 to "piggy back" for them in packages put together by the agency.

The truth is these can not only work out much cheaper than those offered by TUI but gives the pax chance to fly from his/her local airport.

TUI have done nothing but bully the charter market along with the pax and even the airport over the years. The chickens are now coming home to roost and its like music to my ears :hmm:

wawkrk

24th Oct 2006, 08:06

It was not my intention to get into my city is bigger than your city again.
It was only to make the point about the sizeable Leeds and Bradford markets that have been abandoned.
The real problem is the fact that Thomson have protected the Manchester market far too long and now they have lost some business.
Yes, maybe they will attract some loyal diehards to DSA, but I think the market has changed faster than anyone imagined.
The flexibilty provided by Jet2 for example cannot matched.
There is no need to travel on the notorious change over days any longer.
You can travel any day and stay for any length of time.
As I have written before, for the resort hotels and apartment owners, this is surely better. They get paid probaby immediately instead of having to wait until the end of year, and get a higher price.
In the longer term, surely the story is over for the traditional package holiday.
Now if Jet2 provided flights for Thomson.............

NEW-CREW

25th Oct 2006, 02:14

I hear that AEU are to close there Leeds Bradford base permanently. A real shame for the crew and the airport.

Mooncrest

25th Oct 2006, 10:00

It would be naive of me to think that LBA's new owners would be the answer to all the problems the airport faces. There are however some major issues which urgently need to be tackled which will hopefully enable us to attract new and varied business whilst simultaneously sticking two fingers up at those airlines and tour ops who dare to bugger our customers about.

We need a brand new terminal building. One that is large, easily extendable, non-curved with easy access to aircraft parking stands and a significant retail section. It could be sited on either the existing long stay or short stay car park, with a new multi storey for short stay. The current terminal can then be pulled down and the area concreted over to provide more apron and taxiing space for our aircraft. At the same time we'd lose rent-a-tent baggage hall B and all the other silly prefab buildings that take up valuable apron space.

The runway needs to be longer, I don't think there's any doubting that one. A few more feet (well, several hundred actually), preferably at the southeast end could make so much difference. At the very least, the 32 threshold needs budging back a bit so it's on a flat section of runway, making CAT3B ops on 32 a more realistic possibility than it is at the moment. I am fairly certain the technology now exists for at least CAT2 on runway 14. I'd be happy to hear from any ILS experts out there who can add some definitive answers to the debate.

Road access ? Not too sure about this one. It would be pretty difficult to widen and/or reroute the A658 given that it cuts through several built-up areas. Perhaps some sort of spur of the Leeds outer ring road may be the answer. I have a serious lack of knowledge of urban road planning so any better informed contributions are welcome.

I hope the likes of Macquarrie, BAA, TBI etc. have deep pockets. They'll certainly need them. Let's see.

The Desert Ferret

26th Oct 2006, 11:38

I'm not entirely sure I'm allowed to do this but this is in today's Telegraph (26/10/06).

"THE sale of Leeds Bradford International Airport is set to take off next month when its owners issue an information flyer seeking bids in excess of pounds 100m.

Leeds Bradford's five local authority owners have hired accountants Ernst & Young to handle the sale of the latest UK regional airport to be put on the block.

They hope to capitalise on the strong bidding interest in airport assets following the pounds 750m sale of London City Airport and the pounds 60m sale of Exeter, both of which fetched better-than-expected prices.

The fast-growing Leeds Bradford hit the headlines earlier this month when a Sun reporter claimed she had boarded a plane wearing a Muslim niqab veil without being asked to show her face for passport checks.

However, it is the forecasts for passenger traffic growth which will catch the attention of bidders. The flyer is expected to show that the single runway airport has seen a 183pc rise in passenger traffic over the past decade, up from 922,976 passengers in 1995 to 2.61m last year.

Total turnover is up from pounds 17.6m in the year to March 2002 to pounds 21.02m in the most recent financial year, when profits slipped from pounds 881,000 to pounds 788,000 pre-tax. Net assets increased from pounds 31.1m to pounds 34.2m last year. While profits are low, one banker said: "Airports are being sold on passenger forecasts, not earnings multiples.''

Leeds Bradford is expecting rapid passenger growth, partly owing to the expansion of Jet2, owned by the private Dart Group. Jet2 passengers at Leeds Bradford rose by 17pc last year. Other customers include Bmi and KLM Cityhopper.

Leeds Bradford directors expect passenger traffic to top 3m in the next two years and reach 5m passengers by 2015.

The airport is situated at one of the biggest conurbations outside London, but loses traffic to neighbouring airports, including Manchester.

Leeds and Bradford councils each own 40pc of the airport, with Calderdale, Kirklees and Wakefield councils holding the rest of the shares.

Some of the losing bidders for Exeter Airport, including the Low Cost Airport Group led by Blackpool Airport owner Paul Whelan, and Save, the Italian operator of Venice Marco Polo airport, are expected to take a look at Leeds Bradford. Abertis, the owner of Luton Airport, Balfour Beatty, which successfully bid for Exeter, and various private equity groups are also likely to be interested.

Leeds Bradford expects to complete the sale in the first quarter of next year".

> Sale by first quarter next year - they're not hanging around.

RobT100

27th Oct 2006, 10:05

I hear that AEU are to close there Leeds Bradford base permanently. A real shame for the crew and the airport.

I'd like to know where you got this information ? As far as I know nothing could be further from the truth.

NEW-CREW

28th Oct 2006, 22:51

I heard it from a crew member who has received a letter from the company explaining that there will no longer be a base at LBA. This apparently is due to a dispute with a tour operator.

BombardierCR7

29th Oct 2006, 00:00

NEW-CREW's information is correct unfortunately. It would have been nice to have seen a 737-800 at LBA from AEU next summer, but unfortunately myTravel seem to have scuppered that.

RobT100

29th Oct 2006, 17:24

BombardierCR7

Okay thanks for that guys, the question is then : Who will run the programme from LBA for MYT next year ?

....or maybe there will be no programme ?? (still bookable however)

Tommyinyork

30th Oct 2006, 14:37

Maybe a chance of Futura ? afterall they operate a number of MYT flights across the UK.

Smile!!!

30th Oct 2006, 14:53

Futura certinaly do operate a lot of MYT group charter work. I know everything short-haul at CWL is Futura for MYT

fokkerplod

30th Oct 2006, 15:58

Well before astraeus decided to end ops at lba (LAST FLIGHT TOMORROW)

it was suggested to staff that a 737-800 would be damp leased from HELIOS airways ((well their re-incarnation AJET AVIATION))

But we got told last week that this isnt happening and someone like BMI or BMI baby will take on the routes:sad:

Tommyinyork

30th Oct 2006, 16:13

BMI would be good, i could see them using an A320 if they did MYT charters.

RobT100

30th Oct 2006, 18:08

Well before astraeus decided to end ops at lba (LAST FLIGHT TOMORROW)
it was suggested to staff that a 737-800 would be damp leased from HELIOS airways ((well their re-incarnation AJET AVIATION))
But we got told last week that this isnt happening and someone like BMI or BMI baby will take on the routes:sad:

How about Jet2 ? Now there's a possibility :confused:

RobT100

1st Nov 2006, 03:51

From LBA's website it now shows:

Tue ALC on a W with TOM
Wed Banjul with AEU. Nothing from TOM (i.e. ACE gone !)
Thu ACE with IWD
Fri TFS with AEA (no TOM)
Sat ALC on a W with TOM plus the Chambery and Innsbruck
Sun Malta BritishJet

TOM's website however still shows a based unit. Are LBA unveiling something that TOM haven't yet told their customers ??

lba2006

1st Nov 2006, 17:16

What's the chances of MYT basing on of their own??

scamptonboy

1st Nov 2006, 18:09

BMI with a based A320 are to pick up MYT / Astraeus S07 charters with a few tweaks to the plan.

No FNC, CFU or VRN. Dalaman will be done in place of CFU on a Friday. Possibly a PMI flight on a saturday.

LBIA

1st Nov 2006, 21:47

Heres the programme for bmi's based A320 on Charters for LBA next summer 2007.

Mondays
LBA – REU 09:30 12:40 REU – LBA 19:40 20:55(W legs to Teeside)
Tuesdays
LBA – PMI 07:00 10:30 PMI – LBA 11:15 12:25
LBA – HKR 13:35 19:45 HKR – LBA 20:30 22:15
Wednesdays
LBA – RHO 07:00 13:15 RHO – LBA 14:00 15:50
LBA – FUE 16:50 21:05 FUE – LBA 21:50 01:40
Thursdays
LBA – FAO 06:00 08:55 FAO – LBA 09:40 12:20
LBA – ZKY 13:20 18:55 ZKY - LBA 19:40 20:55
Fridays
LBA – IBZ 06:00 09:30 IBZ – LBA 10:15 11:45
LBA – MAH 12:45 16:15 MAH – LBA 17:00 18:15
LBA – DJM 19:15 01:25 DJM – LBA 02:10 04:30
Saturdays
LBA - ALC 13:15 16:40 ALC – LBA 17:25 19:05
LBA – LPA 20:05 00:25 LPA – LBA 01:10 05:50
Sunday
LBA - AGP 07:00 10:55 AGP – LBA 11:40 13:20
LBA – LCA 14:20 21:05 LCA – LBA 21:50 00:10

1, No FNC Service (Been told that the operators are trying to get someone else in to operate it)
2.The Friday Eveing Thomas Cook service to CFU has been dropped. Now replaced with an DJM Service. (This was to be operated by a B737-800 of turkish airline Pegasus.)
3.The VRO service has been dropped. This is a nother service which is to be moved over to Thomsons DSA base. (A extra service to PMI along with the Thomsons REU service have been mentioned as a replacement op on Saturday mornings for the based unit.)
4.Noticed that the Wednesday FUE flight is now operated by the based unit. This has previously been operated by the likes off LTE and FUA.

Any comments guys??

RobT100

2nd Nov 2006, 08:28

I have a couple of comments:

1. Who says its going to be BMI ? has this been confirmed ??

2. Dalaman seems like a futile operation to me. Turkey is well down on peoples wish list for hols at present.

POL1W

2nd Nov 2006, 09:17

holidaymax

2nd Nov 2006, 09:39

3.The VRO service has been dropped. This is a nother service which is to be moved over to Thomsons DSA base.

Quick point to be made is that if you mean VRN by VRO, then it was already in place at DSA and so isn't being moved here from LBA.

RobT100

2nd Nov 2006, 10:09

1. It's on the MyTravel computer system with BD flight numbers.
2. It did'nt seem futile for Goldtrail who sold out their twice weekly Turkey programme with an A300 and an A321 with only a 2 month lead in time. MyTravel are only doing the DLM with the BMI flight, because this year it was done on the Thomsonfly 757 sharing with TUI.
Guess you don't work at LBA then?

thanks for that POL1W, missed that one. You are correct I dont work at LBA, my family own a travel agency in west yorks however. i dont work for them though.

They did tell me that the turkish flights werent doing so well however

scamptonboy

2nd Nov 2006, 10:36

RobT100

Having been one of those punters on the Onur Air A300 2 weeks back to Dalaman I can safely say 291+3 Pax outbound and 300 + on the way back.

:ok:

RobT100

2nd Nov 2006, 12:03

That has to be a good thing then. Goodness knows why TOM want to pull out.

Eaglestar7

3rd Nov 2006, 00:03

RobT100

Simple, they think that passengers will stroll on merrily down the road to Doncaster (not!)

RobT100

3rd Nov 2006, 08:58

Eaglestar

Lets talk positive (hark at me - lol)...

PM has shown with Jet2 what a demand there is from LBA. You can talk about road access, terminal buildings, airbridges, runway length, what ever......

The fact is Jet2 has been a rip-roaring success from LBA and people in the district want to use the airport (and I know that is a fact because we regularly get clients who always want LBA as their first choice). Other companies (including TOM) would have to be fools not to recognise that fact.
I (and my family) firmly believe PM will continue to expand Jet2 into whatever the LBA users want it to become.

However I would be very surprised if (after all this growth) that another company doesnt step in and compete.

GLOBUSAIR

6th Nov 2006, 01:14

Yes its all happening ! :}

But is it not just a little sad at the same time? The arrival of the lowcost era has meant the closure of MYT at Leeds...remember the summers of two based A320's! ... The 757 every winter!.. The busy year round BY 757 sched then the based 767!..Remember Friday nights with a ramp full of interesting UK and Spanish Charter aircraft..!

AEU! Offering a great service to its pax.. a nice modern Aircraft.. investing in Leeds with a base..crew room! ...

Airlines Like BMI, KLM, Eastern pushed further down the priority list at Leeds... airlines that have kept the airport going! Through the hard times! Remained loyal!

We are all happy to see that ramp full, to see a success story! But what hapened to variety..what happend to choice. Its just so sad to see all these carriers closing at Leeds.

:bored:

The loss of AEU is rather grim. The dedicated crew, ... and also a big loss for Penuille Servisair !!!! The BMI contract for the A320 going to Aviance no doubt.

Imagine another massive industry downturn in Aviation.....do you think lowfare airlines that have been operating for 2mins will be able to surrvive.. worrying when you think how much of a LCC base LBA now is...

A300BOY

6th Nov 2006, 08:47

Yep could not agree more ! I love the Jet2 product but feel all the Lba eggs are in one basket and as I have said before big bad Manchester is out courting them so it would not suprise me to see Lba relegated to lower priority as Manchesters potential for both bums on seats and operationally is much greater. I would love to be proved wrong though !

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

6th Nov 2006, 10:56

Being a Manchester guy I think Jet2 is complementry operating from both fields
as they have proved, no mad expansion but adding aircraft and routes in a planned and organised way

And long may they continue

G-I-B

Rainboe

6th Nov 2006, 11:51

Having spent a summer operating out of Leeds, I have to say I can see the problem. Within a circle of radius of less than about 25 miles, you have Manchester Airport, LBA, Doncaster Sheffield, with Liverpool, Humberside and East Midlands just outside. It's a terrific call on division of resources for an airline. I think LBA should have a limited life for the following reasons:
Limited expansion capabilities
Weather problems
Dreadful road access
Lack of public transport facilities
Noise, with approaches right over the city
Major runway upgrade/levelling required

If out of town shopping centres are henceforth banned to stop people driving to them, why is an airport like this encouraged? Everybody drives. If you look at other centres of population, nowhere except London is as well served by airports, and there they are someway out of town, maybe EDI/GLA too. The central south coast has just 2 tinpot airports- Southampton and Bournemouth. I can't help feeling it's time to encourage resources elsewhere. Because of the current pressure to stop the prols flying, we're hardly going to
start with a green field site, but one of those three should bite the dust, and I feel it should be LBA. But money is being spent upgrading a dead duck.

wawkrk

6th Nov 2006, 14:12

Dead Duck, not.
To answer your first point about Manchester being 25 miles away.
Unfortunately most passengers have cars not planes and helicopters.
Yorkshire folk have been making the dire trek to MAN for many years and if you knew what you were talking about, you would know it is not easy.
Liverpool, why ?
East Midlands also can be a terrible journey.
Humberside, ok but it will not happen.
Doncaster ? Some pax will be lost to DSA but the choice of where to fly from is made by the passengers.
Why don’t Thomson make a massive increase in flights at DSA ?
Not enough pax of course.
They have tried to do something by closing the LBA base and time will tell if this has had any effect.
The weather, can you tell me what your diversion rate is compared with other airports?
Approaches over the city, this is unusual?
The rest of your comments are down the failure of successive Leeds and Bradford councils by allowing politics to come first instead of investment in the airport and infrastructure.
Airports create wealth.
I reckon PM of Jet2 knows the subject very well and he has not flinched from investing in LBA.
You say one airport has to go, so why have millions just been invested in creating another one?
LBA is here to stay whether it is the best location in the world or not.
WAWKRK

A300BOY

6th Nov 2006, 14:30

Interesting to get an un-biased opinion from a person not living in the area and I understand your view.
Its obvious Manchester and Robin Hood have the space and runway length to attract any operator away from Leeds and if the passengers follow them I am sure your comments may be accurate.
Bristol and Cardiff must be a similar case with Bristol having all the problems that Leeds has and Cardiff the ideal location however which one is booming.
My previous employer operated into Leeds for many years with various types and they were never very happy operating the larger aircraft but since then Cat 2 and 3 is more the norm also aircraft performance has improved it is just a pity the runway and operational issues at Leeds have seemed to have had a low priority but maybe its not as easy as all us amateurs think to resolve them.
I still believe that Leeds has a future 2.8 milion passengers a year is not too bad and they are still rising.
I believe Thompsonfly have made a poor decision with regards to their Leeds operations but time will tell and they may rethink in the future.

Leodis

6th Nov 2006, 14:45

Rainboe

The way you talk, you would think Leeds Bradford is just a grass strip. All the airport needs is the investment it deserves to bring facilities up to date and back in-line with other airports. You mentioned the local roads. This is not really a discussion for an aviation forum. It is something that must be addressed over the coming years at local and national level. North and North West Leeds is crying out for better road links and access to motorways.

Many problems you have mentioned could be relevant at many UK airports. The Department for Transport have stated that the M60 Orbital motorway for Manchester will be at choking point at the same time Manchester Airport is expected to be handling 40 million plus.

Every major city in Europe has an airport, Leeds is no different. Sheffield was the only major city in Europe without an airport until the likes of Doncaster Sheffield and the former City airport. What people fail to realise, is that it is people living in those cities that demand local services, not bureaucrats and aviation experts. I would put money on an American service starting from Leeds within a year of any runway improvements such as a starter extension. With flights to Dubai following shortly after.

Many things at the airport need addressing, but see what happens when they've been addressed.

Leodis

682ft AMSL

6th Nov 2006, 15:21

The question of whether the place is a 'dead duck' or not will be answered over the next few months. Ernst & Young are sending out their official documentation this week requesting formal bids for the airport. If nobody bids or the bids are so low that the councils are not inclined to sell, it would go some way to ratifying Rainboe's view of the world. If however there is interest from the airport management sector and sizeable bids are received, it would suggest a more positive view.

Personally, I wouldn't invest too much effort in trying to debate it now when the next few weeks and months will unequivocally answer the question one way or another. All I do know is that the phase1 report produced by Ernst & Young beteen July and September this year indicated that their informal discussions with the indutry led them to believe that (a) there would be significant interest and (b) a sizeable selling price was achievable. We shall have to see whether the industry puts its money where its mouth is when the time comes for the formal bid submission.

Rainboe

6th Nov 2006, 17:23

Leo, I think the way an airport links into the local transport infrastructure is important when decisions are taken on investment and upgrading. LBA is sited in possibly the worst corner of Leeds for access- it couldn't be further from motorway links. This whole part of the North, from Kingston to Liverpool, is blessed with a bewildering array of motorways. You only have to look at a countrywide map to see how sparse they are almost everywhere else. The airport is pretty ramshackle, with a poor runway with bizarre slopes, and serious local weather effects. I've done a CAT 1 limit go-around and a diversion to MAN (always basking in clear skies when Leeds is out). The apron extension is done, but I'm afraid the beef of the matter is the runway. Having a Harrier ski ramp at the end, leading to one of the most severe airfield edge precipices is not acceptable. If there's a runway, someone, one day, will run off the end- as has happened to a Tristar at Leeds. Do that off 14 and it will spoil your day. I don't believe in pouring money into dead projects, but unfortunately business and the Councils are seeing megabucks flashing before their eyes, and only want all they can get out of it.

So, as we are being persuaded gently it is to our benefit to be megataxed on air travel as it will somehow 'sort' global warming (ha-ha), quite missing the point it is yet another way for a grasping government to raid our pockets (= 'there are too many proles flying all over the place- let's tax them!'), money will be directed to the wrong resource. The location is inadequate. Trouble is, there doesn't seem to be any flat ground anywhere in the area!

14 loop

6th Nov 2006, 18:09

Rainboe - do you want BRS to close for the same RSEA reasoning?

I agree that the runway IS an issue but the right buyer will sort out the problem. The investment in Cat 2/3 on 32 has done much to improve matters...the next works on 14 will make things better again.

The fact is people from the locality want to fly from LBA, they do not like the drive elsewhere - motorways may be alright but once you're on them its difficult to get off if everything grinds to a halt. The M1 & M62 regularly do. The locals that use LBA know the short-cuts and cut throughs to reach the airport. That said improved access will help..and there are plans for this.

You make a big play on govt moves to stop the prols flying....I'm not sure it will come to much - if it does you might be out of a job!

HOODED

6th Nov 2006, 18:20

Rainboe, whilst I can agree with some of your reasoning some others are a little off the mark. LBA is thriving despite all these problems you mention, look elsewhere around the world. Do all airports have flat runways. Do none have local weather problems. Have you ever been at LBA when it was poking out of the top of low lying fog when all airports around it were in Cat 3 conditions? It does happen! Severe airfield edge percepices! Have you ever visited Luton?
The point is that LBA sits in the middle of a very large conurbation and the people in that conurbation seem quite happy to drive on non motorways to fly from there. Roughly 3 million a year.
So hey, lets leave LBA to the airlines that want to fly from there cos thats where the pax are.To those that want to go to DSA good luck, it may have a nice runway and good motorway access but fog is not uncommon there either and pax aren't as numerous on the doorstep so lets hope they are happy to use those motorways to get there.

Rainboe

6th Nov 2006, 18:53

You're right- while the demand is there, the airport will thrive. It is just a bit galling living in the allegedly wealthier south to see the profusion of airports up there, and the how poorly the south is served by local airports and the low investment in them. It's most confusing until you come to the realisation that the average northerner seems to travel away more- maybe something to do with lower property prices up north/ higher local authority housing meaning more disposable income. Maybe Labour's great move of Council resources to the North is showing through now.

14 loop

6th Nov 2006, 19:50

Bilmey Rainboe - you've opened Pandora's box!

Let's not get into an N v S arguement.

The demand for LBA is there and will continue!

As a northerner that now works in the smoke - my view of the situation down here is the lack of airport provision in the south is down to the fact that fields like LHR & LGW shift so many pax and have such influenece (may be as a result of the BAA monopoly) that other fields have not developed. But add up all the figures, more people (UK indigines) fly from airports in the south than the north - so no bleading hearts about wealth, local authority housing and implied regional stereotypes please!

I believe that SOU was originally bought by BAA to put a lid on the place - however SOU has grown thanks to Flybe (the IT market has completely died there) and now NEW BAA is keen to keep SOU because they will be forced to divest themselves of their monopoly of London airports.

I can't believe that Greenham Common (my local) wasn't developed into a civilian field - it had many of the elements that Rainboe reckons LBA ought to have (runway, roads etc)!

Anyway as 682 says... the test of whether LBA is a dead duck or not is the sale.

wawkrk

6th Nov 2006, 20:08

Rainboe,

Looking at the plethora of motorways in our is missleading.
Most are only car parks.

Good point though about stopping the public from driving to greenfield sites, LBA pax dont need to do that.

BombardierCR7

6th Nov 2006, 20:12

Rainboe, perhaps this may be just one of the reasons why the north is better served by airports, and perhaps also may show why some company may potentially want to take the long term investment in LBA rather than making comments such as "higher local authority housing" and "having a Harrier ski ramp at the end, leading to one of the most severe airfield edge precipices is not acceptable"

Key left to right: City rank in Europe, City name, GDP per head in Euro 2005

23 London UK 35,072
25 Edinburgh UK 35,018
29 Glasgow UK 31,893
34 Bristol UK 29,437
43 Leeds UK 25,619
56 Birmingham UK 22,069
57 Manchester UK 21,099
58 Newcastle-upon-Tyne UK 20,499
61 Liverpool UK 16,466

Do you think investing in an aviation facility 13km from the centre of the UK's 5th largest GDP producer is "pouring money into dead projects"?

A few years ago a certain Bournemouth based air freight operator decided to launch a loco airline. It could have chosen from many airports in the UK as its start up, instead it chose a windy, fog bound hill in the north resembling an aircraft carrier away from the core motorway network. It now operates 27 routes from there.

Do you still think LBA is a "dead Duck"?

We'll see in a few months when the sale of the airport has hopefully been completed as to how it has been viewed as investment potential. I think one thing we can be sure of, any investment should it occur won't be for a "quick buck". Leeds City Council's sale is also unlikely to be for a "quick buck", but a long awaited realisation that private investment and management is required in the development of one of the city's key assets for future economic prosperity of its residents and businesses.

Do you think Peel put circa £100m into a dissused RAF base next to an ex pit town for a "quick buck"?

The Desert Ferret

6th Nov 2006, 21:52

Let's credit Rainboe with stirring up an interesting exchange of opinions rather than the usual stuff.

Regarding surface access the rather grandiosely self-styled Leeds City Region Vision (local government) cites a road link to the airport from the A65 up Scotland Lane way and a tram-train service from Bradford to Leeds via Guiseley, LBIA and Horsforth in its 25 year strategy. Its all subject to some innovative (and ambitious) funding.

682ft AMSL

7th Nov 2006, 08:39

from the FT over the weekend. The first confirmed expression of interest as far as I'm aware, although on first impressions are that there are probably better options out there - Abertis for one.
682

"MAR properties, a Northern Ireland company that owns Blackpool, Wolverhampton airports is bidding for Leeds Bradford airport, which could be worth about £100m. Based in Belfast and owned by Noel Murphy, Adam Armstrong and Bill Rushe, MAR confirmed it had expressed an interest to Ernst and Young which is handling the sale on behalf of a group of 5 local authorities that own the airport. As Leeds Bradford is a publically owned transport facility, under EU rules there has to be a pre-qualification process as part of the tender, which is expected in the next couple of weeks. Others expected to bid include Abertis, owners of Luton, Cardiff and Belfast International airports, Balfour Beatty, which was part of the consortium buying Exeter airport for £60m and SAVE, the Italian owners of Venice's Marco Polo airport.

MAR also owns office and retail property in Toronto and a shopping centre in Barking east London. The three owners of MAR jointly own Monty's Pass, winner of the 2002 Grand National".

Rainboe

7th Nov 2006, 11:30

I can't help feeling that the location of this old Yeadon Airport, developed pre-war for aeroplanes that needed far less take-off distance, is now so bad in terms of all the reasons I outlined, that it would be worth going for a new green field site and saving all that runway upgrade work. The new apron would make a very nice Tesco Car Park. It is time to bite the bullet and put the place out of its misery before we become committed to it. Somewhere everyone can get to easily, near road/rail terminals that would serve the whole area. There is a suspicious looking blank area that I recall was quite flat- south of the M62 and just east of the M1. Might bugger up Pontefract, but how it would improve north of Leeds-Bradford! They took the ideal wind alignment for a runway at LBA and built the darn thing at 90 degrees to it! Every approach is an exercise in crosswind landings on a short, violently undulating runway (usually wet)!

Leodis

7th Nov 2006, 12:26

This argument has gone the full circle now.

Basically Rainboe, you don't like the place and you could also probably sell snow to Eskimos. All the airport needs is investment and I firmly believe it will get it.

Rainboe

7th Nov 2006, 15:05

Not quite right. It's accepted the Leeds/Bradford/Huddersfield/Wakefield conurbation obviously merits an airfield with good services, but Yeadon is way out on a limb, and even when developed, it is not going to serve the needs of the whole area. You can say 'well that is where it is....tough!', but it doesn't have to be Yeadon that does the job. But now so much money is riding on the place it is taking on a commercial life of its own, so an unsuitable facility will suck up all that investment and not serve the southern areas, inc Barnsley, and to a small extent Sheffield, at all well.

We are banned down south from ever having any more shopping centres like there are at Meadowhall, Sheffield, because the public actually likes to get in its cars and dare to drive to them. So we have Cribbs Causeway, Bristol, and Bluewater, East London.......and er....that's it. Can you see the objection about Yeadon when the only way to get there is by car, on poor road links, and they're going to grow the place? It's out of town, out in the sticks, a long drive for everybody, esp from the southern part of the area it's supposed to serve, and nobody can call it an acceptable 'green' option. I'm merely trying to express an opinion that good money shouldn't be thrown after bad. Go on, fry me!

14 loop

7th Nov 2006, 20:08

Not quite right....
We are banned down south from ever having any more shopping centres like there are at Meadowhall, Sheffield, because the public actually likes to get in its cars and dare to drive to them. So we have Cribbs Causeway, Bristol, and Bluewater, East London.......and er....that's it.
Rainboe, obviously your Summer at LBA is taking it's toll.....you'll find a massive new retail development on a brownfield site (like Meadowhall actually) taking shape in West London at White City.
Now to my mind a W12 postcode certainly sounds like the south to me...and yes there will be a car park there (aswell as a new Underground station).
As I said in my last post, don't get into the NvS type arguements.

Rainboe

7th Nov 2006, 22:22

It is in London served more than adequately by public transport. Look outside London, and there will never be anything again, because as I said the politicians don't want the proles getting in their cars to drive there. Also there is some garbled logic about not wanting town centres to lose their function to out of town stores. So how come an out of town airport with lousy transport links, though some are promised 'sometime in the future' is so OK?

I did quite like flying there. It was challenging, sorted my crosswind landings out on a new type, and I quite liked Leeds. But Yeadon?

The Desert Ferret

7th Nov 2006, 22:39

Rainboe - thanks for stirring up a lively debate - I've been enjoying the contributions - though I had a quick scan on your other contributions and you generally don't seem to broadcast anything positive about anything to anyone - Leeds or elsewhere! Cheer up.

In the current climate (I assume you all read the newspapers) the likelihood of planning permission for a new airport to serve West Yorkshire or anywhere in the UK is zero. End of story. Given that real-world constraint what is your policy for Leeds Bradford? Close it and concentrate on Doncaster? Lets hear your full argument on this if that is the case - I guess, amongst other things, you're advocating NOT building road and rail links to LBA that form part of the Leeds City region proposals.

RobT100

8th Nov 2006, 02:27

I've sussed this Rainboe guy --- he is obviously a TOM employee trying to justify their base closure at LBA............

..........:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

14 loop

8th Nov 2006, 05:55

I've sussed this Rainboe guy --- he is obviously a TOM employee trying to justify their base closure at LBA............
..........:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

RobT100 - he ain't that bad, reckon he's an AEU jock! and we know the reasons behind their base closure.

A300BOY

8th Nov 2006, 08:18

Now I am intrigued ! do we know the real reason why they closed the base ?
However I agree with Rainboes comments about keeping his skills honed as a result of his short session of operations at Leeds this year I hope mine too have been, but I will be coming back for more and relish the thought.
I wish him good luck at his new base next year, he will have to try making one of the turn offs half way down the runway so he can remember our little strip on the hill.

RobT100

8th Nov 2006, 17:22

RobT100 - he ain't that bad, reckon he's an AEU jock! and we know the reasons behind their base closure.

I dont know the reasons behind the closure. Please explain ?

14 loop

8th Nov 2006, 18:27

I dont know the reasons behind the closure. Please explain ?

Another airline (bmi) struck a deal with the principal seat taker MYT for the contract. bmi got the work, AEU didn't!

GLOBUSAIR

9th Nov 2006, 12:13

Yes in ref; to Aeu closure.

AEU Came in to LBA when none of the big boys dared..they offerd seats on their aircraft to all the big names, MYT TOM JMC TCook and other niche tour companies...

For Summer 2007...MYT (WHO CLOSED A YEAR ROUND LBA BASE DOWN!) .. wanted a full Aircraft to themselves...

Why Should AEU kick off other paying customers? So....MYT spat its dummy out and that is then end of AEU at LBA and a afew of the new nich routes...

I dont think Atlantic Want BMI to operate the Funchal... so that will operate from elsewhere now or they will seccure and alternative carrier.

So passengers will now be changed on to flights out of DSA..which will be nice when they get the letter through the door... Probly those who keep LBA tickets will be subject to change...oh and not to mention.. offered a lessor product than AEU by bmi charter.

################ :ugh: ##################

Anywho... just wanted to say something about "Weather at Leeds"

The past three weeks!!!! We have had diverts from DSA due to FOGGGG ...would you belive... we have had MAN diverts because..did you know they too get FOGGGGG...... high winds and snow :D

And as someone who operates out of Schiphol airport 6 days a week!!!! One of Europes largest hubs... when it gets windy.... Operations are sometimes reduced to one inbound runway!!!! ...and last year i diverted 4 times due to fog at schiphol....

So peeps... if your airports on the top of a hill or the foot of one.. weather is an issue... So you LBA bashers cant use that ammo anymore :p

682ft AMSL

9th Nov 2006, 14:55

Spotted this press release yesterday.
682

Coach service to York with Leeds Bradford International

Coach operator First York is planning a new service that will link York with Leeds Bradford International Airport.

The initiate is being launched by the operator, the City of York Council, Yorkshire Forward and the York Tourism Bureau and the service is planned to commence on March 1st 2007.

Peter Edwards, commercial director of First York, told the York Press: "All our partners have something to gain out of this service becoming a success and I do not think it will be long before we will be carrying a significant number of passengers."

Mr Edwards added that the operator has "valuable experience" in providing "high-quality airport feeder services" throughout the country.

In order to supply the new link, First York has purchased three new 'express' coaches, which will run every hour between the city and the international airport.

First, of which First York is part, states that it is the "UK's largest surface transportation company", reporting revenue of £3 billion per year and operating a fifth of all local bus services.

682ft AMSL

9th Nov 2006, 15:01

A bit more background on the sale
682

Ernst & Young is the lead advisor on the imminent sale of Leeds Bradford International. Leeds Bradford Airport is at the heart of one of the most dynamic regions in the UK. The airport has just celebrated its 75th anniversary and has an exciting masterplan for the next decade to develop new routes and services. The current capacity for transporting passengers out of Leeds Bradford is only three million people per year. The deal will enable significant growth and profitability resulting in this figure more than doubling to seven million by 2030.
On 13 November 2006, the transaction information will be released into the public domain in the form of the pre-qualifying questionnaire and marketing flier, with the shortlist of bidders chosen in the New Year. A preferred bidder is to be selected by March 2007 and the completion is expected to be finalised only a month later.

Richard Tollis, Aviation partner, Ernst & Young says: "We are already seeing strong interest in this transaction from the market, based on development prospects for the business - and perhaps because this may be the last opportunity to acquire a privatising regional airport in the UK". To register interest in the sale contact:

wawkrk

11th Nov 2006, 03:14

Does anyone know why last nights TOM flight from TFS went to Manchester.
All other flights operated as normal.
WAWKRK

jongeman

11th Nov 2006, 09:09

We are banned down south from ever having any more shopping centres like there are at Meadowhall, Sheffield, because the public actually likes to get in its cars and dare to drive to them. So we have Cribbs Causeway, Bristol, and Bluewater, East London.......and er....that's it.

The ban on out-of-town shopping centres is national, it's not a policy specifically aimed at hurting car owners down south. In the south, there's Lakeside, Bluewater and Cribbs Causeway, in the north, Meadowhall, Metro Centre and the Trafford Centre, and between them Merry Hill. That's your lot.

The north isn't more blessed with local airports any more than the south either. London has 5, Southampton 1. Evereywhere that needs one, has got one already, so I can't imagine where else there's demand.

RobT100

11th Nov 2006, 12:53

Does anyone know why last nights TOM flight from TFS went to Manchester.
All other flights operated as normal.
WAWKRK

Blimey, how many times have we had this old chestnut when the aircraft is based at MAN ??

Wouldnt have anything to do with the fact that this aircraft was positioning back to MAN anyway.....would it :mad:

scamptonboy

11th Nov 2006, 14:13

RobT100Blimey, how many times have we had this old chestnut when the aircraft is based at MAN ??

I think what wawkrk is trying to establish is that the inbound from TFS may have actually diverted into Manchester, not re-position, perhaps because X-winds at LBA were a factor last night??

wawkrk

11th Nov 2006, 14:44

According to Wundergroud weather reports for Yeadon last night.
The winds were very light.
I held back from expressing my opinions about the reasons to go to Man until I knew the full story.
Was the Jet2 flight from TFS at a similar time also a 757?

withins

11th Nov 2006, 15:32

TOM TFS Diverted to Man yesterday because the Rwy was wet! :confused: (No kidding) this restriction applies to their B738'S although I thought it only applied when landing on Rwy14 with it's shorter LDA. Yesterday 32 was in use. also of interest is the fact that a RYR B738 landed fine around the same time under the same conditions.

Why TOM have this restriction in their company SOP's respecially when they will be using the B738 at LBA so much this winter is a question only they can answer.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

RobT100

11th Nov 2006, 19:20

RobT100

I think what wawkrk is trying to establish is that the inbound from TFS may have actually diverted into Manchester, not re-position, perhaps because X-winds at LBA were a factor last night??

I know he was - I was saying the crew perhaps used a cop out to get home for an early night ? No, I couldnt imagine that now :)

RobT100

11th Nov 2006, 19:23

Yes in ref; to Aeu closure.

For Summer 2007...MYT (WHO CLOSED A YEAR ROUND LBA BASE DOWN!) .. wanted a full Aircraft to themselves...

Why Should AEU kick off other paying customers? So....MYT spat its dummy out and that is then end of AEU at LBA and a afew of the new nich routes...

Why on earth dont MYT come back then ? crazy (or what)

We are seeing here probably a regret - a regret by MYT that they pulled the LBA base in the first place. But rather than some big-wig at MYT admit they are wrong we are now playing politics.
I wonder how long it wil take TUI to do the same ;)

perky35

11th Nov 2006, 22:47

HI,
does anyone have any idea who will be operating this years various charter flights? e.g. lapland and norway etc...

i think last year it was First Choice with A321 equipment?

SASfox

16th Nov 2006, 16:11

Just noticed that Goldtrail have tweaked their flights to Turkey for next summer. Both still go on a Monday but the DLM is now a morning departure with the BJV staying with an evening flight. The first flights out will depart on the 30th April which means these flights will probably be classed as "Winter Sun" by the airport marketing boffins!
I still can't believe we have only 4 Winter sun charters a week this year. Was it only 2 years ago that we had 4 flights to TFS on a Friday alone?
Looking at Thomson Holidays flights for next summer we have 6 "W" flights with TOM all arriving early-mid afternoon. Tue-ALC, Wed-MAH, Thu-PMI, Fri-CFU, Sat-IBZ, Sun-PMI. The Sat-REU and Fri-TFS are still on sale but showing the old flight times with a based TOM aircraft...any ideas?

robo283

16th Nov 2006, 20:02

Good point SASfox but look on the bright side. Plenty of Jet2 flights to traditional charter destinations including TFS, ACE, AGP, ALC, MJV etc etc. The market is changing......:ok:

682ft AMSL

16th Nov 2006, 21:54

If only the commercial traffic could land on 32 like this - would make a world of difference. First 400m of the runway dead-level. Will be interesting to see if dragging the touchdown zone further back is something a bit of money can address over the next few years.

682

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZowrUdbrFk

Tommyinyork

16th Nov 2006, 23:53

mightymouse111

22nd Nov 2006, 16:56

May I ask a quick question; Why do the airlines not fly Leeds to Gatwick?

Benefits;
Lots of Charter flights from Lgw
A lot more airlines now chosing lgw as their uk base.
Quick connection into London in 30 minutes (quicker than LHR)

Sorry to interrupt the thread, but always wondered why.

PTH needs tarmac

22nd Nov 2006, 23:17

mighty

Yes, this route has been tried several times, and I think the prime attraction would be the much quicker access to South London or the South coast area, both of which have direct train links, as you say. Connecting onto charter routes will account for only a small number of passengers.

The last airline to have a shot at it was BRAL with a 4x per weekday Jetstream 41 service. The passenger numbers were looking reasonable, over 3,000 per month, but then BRAL closed their LBA base and Eastern chose not to continue that route. Given that Flybe are now muscling in on two of Eastern's remaining LBA routes that might have been an error.

The major difficulty is accessing decent slot times at LGW. The peak times of morning and evening are exactly when every other airline wants to arrive at LGW, so slots are very hard to get. Also, a moderately successful route (as LBA-LGW probably would be) is not really good enough when there are potentially much more profitable routes to run. Easyjet, for example, has plenty of slots at LGW and could run almost as many daily flights to LBA as it wanted, starting yesterday, but there are better loads and yields to be had on the routes it does operate.

LGW would be a useful addition to LBAs routes, but the sticking point is more the LGW end of the operation. Similarly LBA-LCY should raise some demand, but when it has been tried too much capacity has been supplied and other background factors have seen the route rapidly withdrawn.

PTH

mightymouse111

23rd Nov 2006, 10:04

Thanks PTH

LBIA

24th Nov 2006, 19:23

bmi british midlands based Airbus A320 Charter operation at Leeds/Bradford Next summer will now also be operating the Thomson Holidays Saturday Reus Service which was added to the programme this week.

Flight BD 7161 07:00 Depart (LBA) - 10:15 Arrive (REU)
Flight BD 7162 11:00 Depart (REU) - 12:15 Arrive (LBA)

Full programme for bmi based charter unit

Mondays = Leeds-Reus-Teeside-Reus-Leeds
Tuesdays = Leeds-Palma-Leeds-Heraklion-Leeds
Wednesdays = Leeds-Rhodes-Leeds-Fuerteventura-Leeds
Thursdays = Leeds-Faro-Leeds-Zakynthos-Leeds
Fridays = Leeds-Ibiza-Leeds-Mahon-Leeds-Dalaman-Leeds
Saturdays = Leeds-Reus-Leeds-Alicante-Leeds-Las Palmas-Leeds
Sundays = Leeds-Malaga-Leeds-Larnaca-Leeds

robo283

25th Nov 2006, 09:38

A hat gets thrown into the ring...
http://www.aoa.org.uk/media/latest_news_view.asp?NEWS_ID=17988290
Interesting that MAR also own Blackpool with its strong Jet2.com presence. Meeson Air doesn't fly from Wolverhampton yet, as far as I am aware. (In fact I didn't even know that Wolverhampton had an airport, but there you go).

wawkrk

25th Nov 2006, 11:15

The MAR story has been around for a while Robo.
The new strong contender seems to be Balfour Beatty who have declared an interest.

robo283

25th Nov 2006, 19:38

Thanks, WAWKRK. I only picked it up off the AOA website.

Who else is interested? I have heard also of Dart Group and presumed that Piel Holdings and Manchester Airport might have an interest.

Dart would be interesting as airlines don't generally seem to mix well with airports when it comes to ownership.

SWBKCB

25th Nov 2006, 20:29

You may be more familiar with Wolverhampton airport (or to give it it's correct title "Wolverhampton Business Airport") as Halfpenny Green Airfield - when I lived down there the biggest thing operating was the Islander used for para-dropping, and although there have been big plans mooted I don't think it's changed much...

Also, with Manchester Airport Group considering getting rid of it's smaller airports and with Peel already operating DSA and DTVA, I can't see them joining the fray.

robo283

25th Nov 2006, 20:56

Ah, Halfpenny Green. Of course!

I'll go with your logic on MAG and Peel. Maybe the Sheikh who was supposed to buy Leeds United will appear again, as if by magic ;)

SASfox

28th Nov 2006, 16:23

Looks like the FNC has been pulled altogether for next summer. Not showing on Thomsons or Atlantics booking pages at all now.
Ah well, at least we still have Jet2 to AGP 23 times a day:bored:
OK not counting Jet2 how many new routes have LBA for next Summer?.....erm......there must be 1 surley????
I know lets play how many routes lost... FNC, PFO, VRN, GRO,
Massive exspansion from FLYBE aswell....SOU goes 3 times daily M-F, 2 on Sun.

robo283

28th Nov 2006, 17:31

Look on the bright side, SASfox. Surely continued expansion by Jet2 is better for LBA and the local community than a varied programme of here taoday, gone tomorrow charter carriers (stand by for flamethrowers...:} ).

NEW-CREW

28th Nov 2006, 17:50

on about AEU by any chance??

starbag

28th Nov 2006, 20:53

on about AEU by any chance??

Not quite sure what you're asking, but AEU, apart from a short series operating LBA-BOH-BJL and the odd LBW-CMF flight this winter have left LBA, and are focussing operations at their main base at LGW, with a reduced base at MAN. Flying is moving away from the relatively low profit charter flying, and more into our very profiable niche scheduled flying out of Gatwick.

682ft AMSL

7th Dec 2006, 19:08

Spotted this on the newswire today. Not a confirmed bidder at this stage, but showing an interest. Arguably the biggest name to come to light so far. Involved in the UK with LTN, CWL and BFS and in the US with Orlando/Sanford.
682

MADRID (AFX) - Abertis Infraestructuras SA is considering bidding for Leeds Bradford International airport, which was put up for sale in November with a starting bid of around 150 mln stg, El Economista reported, citing a company spokesperson.

robo283

7th Dec 2006, 20:34

150 million? At least the price is geeting sensible (as a Leeds council tax payer these things take on an added significance;) ). Plus they seem to have a string of 'similar' airports.

Maybe the West Yorks councils could turn things on their head and bid for PMI, AGP etc.....

SASfox

22nd Dec 2006, 09:34

Anyone know how the first Banjul went this week? What was the pax split between LBA and BOH?

PAXboy

30th Dec 2006, 01:33

New Year Honours in full
Published: 30 December 2006
The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article2112580.ece)

This one looks like one of yours??
OBE Cairns, Anthony James, Dep Chair, Leeds Bradford Internat Airport. For serv Civil Aviation and to the commty in West Yorkshire.

682ft AMSL

30th Dec 2006, 10:48

Leeds City Council have penciled in Weds 4th April as the date their Executive Board will vote on their prefered and reserve bidders for the airport sale.
682

robo283

30th Dec 2006, 18:53

Well done Mr. Cairns :D

Leodis

31st Dec 2006, 13:04

Leeds City Council have penciled in Weds 4th April as the date their Executive Board will vote on their prefered and reserve bidders for the airport sale.
682 Or the already chosen one:E

SWBKCB

6th Jan 2007, 16:35

Reported on the Exeter thread that it has been sold for £60m - how does this tie in with the expected price for LBA?

wawkrk

8th Jan 2007, 13:53

Good to see the LBA website is up to date as usual.
On the day it has been announced that flights to Bristol will resume, LBA announce the disruption of flights.

LBIA

8th Jan 2007, 16:24

Hi

Well I’ve just noticed that the 2006 Passenger figures have been released on the LBIA website. Just look on the news section on the airport's website for a full press release. I wont post the link.

Anyway it looks as though the airport handled just under 2.8 million passengers. Which is up 7% on 2005. Airlines and Operators are now operating up to 65 direct destinations and off them 18 where newly launched in 2006.

So what do you guys think! Will LBIA hit the magic 3 million mark this year??

wawkrk

8th Jan 2007, 19:20

Nice one LBA.
So you saw my posting regarding Bristol and changed the date from the 8th to the 7th. Since when did admin work on Sundays?

GLOBUSAIR

9th Jan 2007, 23:35

It really is all coming together now and i am quite giddy when i think about all the changes that are coming!

Re: website updates.. hopefully more investment in the internet presence of lbia when under new ownership. The website is very useless, despite a number of new designes yearly it remains dated and amature looking and ever noticed how certain flights dispapeer off the flight info every day!!

The end of makeshift units, tempoary structures, tacky make-shift council style shortcuts. Replacing one facility to make room for a new one.... (2004 closing down a childrens play area and replacing it with prayer room)... hmmmmm! A duty free shop / s worth the visit.. further extension of the terminal along the main ramp... a further airbridge for stand 9 at the very least..?

Its not going to happen overnight but so much to look forward. we have put time and money and remained patient with our local airport. Its about time to give leeds the airport it deserves... and that doesnt mean building a new one elsewere!

Jet2 has done alot for LBA but people.. the mark of a good/real airport is variety.. multiple frequency and carriers on routes.. lets hope with new ownership we will attract airlines back aswell as welcome new ones.. cos those silver/red jets are pretty.. but who wants to watch the same thing all day! We likes choice!!!

Happy new year.. Heres to 2007.. LBA year :):} :) :}

GLOBUSAIR

9th Jan 2007, 23:50

:\ Its also worth mentioning to those who are abit behind on LBA news.. Jet2 will become a self-handling airline operation at LBA from March this year.

This will mean that Penuille Servisair will no longer be used for Check-in, Boarding, Dispatch and most aircraft services. Baggage services are provided by the LBA company for all airlines at LBA and this will remain so for jet2. However the sale of the airport may see changes in this area.

This announcement will mean job cuts for the large Penuille Servisair workforce at LBA. Hopefully these people will find new roles at Jet2 handling or in a new job..

As a former Servisair employee.. I have to say Jet2's success at LBA is partly to the dedication of servisair staff from 2003 to present..some there from Jet2 day one up to now still. Ontime if not early dispatch ,... always the priority and behind the brand 100%.

Good luck to all servisair staff, especially those at checkin.. dispatch and ramp! Not the pen pushers.. the people that made it happen you!

spanishflea

10th Jan 2007, 09:37

Copenhagen announced, daily flight with bmi Regional, starting 26th March, intro fares from £66 return:

BD491 Leeds Bradford-Copenhagen depart 1000, arrive 1255 (Mon to Fri)
BD491 Leeds Bradford-Copenhagen depart 0705, arrive 1000 (Sat, Sun)
BD492 Copenhagen-Leeds Bradford depart 1325, arrive 1425 (Mon to Fri)
BD492 Copenhagen-Leeds Bradford depart 1030, arrive 1130 (Sat, Sun)

Lets hope this one actualy starts!

BombardierCR7

10th Jan 2007, 20:12

Third time lucky perhaps...

Have they managed to secure a SAS codeshare on it this time?

turnipgreen

11th Jan 2007, 13:22

Leeds City Council have penciled in Weds 4th April as the date their Executive Board will vote on their prefered and reserve bidders for the airport sale.
682

Any ideas on likely bidders?

TANGO100

12th Jan 2007, 09:20

As quoted in the TTG - 12-01-07
Former Yorkshire Electricity chief exec Sir Graham Hall is spearheading a bid by Bridgepoint Capital to buy Leeds/Bradford airport.
Hall confirmed he was leading Bridgepoint's bid, which is likely to be one of up to four that will be shortlisted to aquire the airport today.
Hall declined to comment on Bridgepoint's proposals but identified the expansion of Europes routes, capital investment and retail development as the three main areas of opportunity at the airport.
While the initial asking price for Leeds/Bradford was thought to have been about £40m (TTG Oct 20th 2006), the sale last week of Exeter International airport to Regional and City Airports for £60m is likely to have bumped up bids considerably.
The final price for Leeds/Bradford has already been tipped as high as £100m.
The airport is estimated to have handled about 2.9 million passengers last year.
Hall and Bridgepoint are likely to be up against some stiff competition from other UK airport groups and venture capital companies, though it is thought that an interested US bidder has already dropped out.
Hall said his experience running a private sector company and chairing regional development bodies, Yorkshire forward and Northern Way would stand him in good stead as a strong local candidate to run the airport.
Leeds and Bradford city councils, which own 80% of the airport are to begin the bidding process today (Friday) and will be keen to seal a deal by April before council elections take place.
Interesting stuff then, if you want to check out Bridgepoint follow the link.
www.bridgepoint-capital.com/default.asp?sID=1101378498812

LBIA

15th Jan 2007, 20:16

Well it looks like bmi regional are going to comfirm tomorrow that they are going to axe there 3 times daily LBA-Paris Cdg route on Saturday February 25th according to several post on the bmi threads.

So I wonder if Jet2 will go twice daily (Thats if they can get the Slots) or if another airline may look at the route. Especially with Tommo's dropping their DSA-Orly flight as off the end off the winter season as well?

harrogate

16th Jan 2007, 03:20

For anyone who cares, Infratil are now in the frame for LBA.

A late entry to the party, but an entry nonetheless.

682ft AMSL

16th Jan 2007, 12:35

See article below from today's Yorkshire Post
Contrary to previous reports on here, no shortlist was drawn up by the councils last Friday nor indeed will the councils be drawing up the shortlist. E&Y will select the shortlist and the Council's will then vote on a 1st and 2nd choice bidder from this list. As previously reported, the exec group in Leeds are expecting to do this during their meeting on 4th April. Report states up to a dozen initial bidders
1) Infratil
2) Balfour
3) MAR
4) Bridgepoint
5) Abertis??
Wonder who the others are - likely to be not much cop if a private equity firm with no prior experience of running airports is "a favourite" to make the final list.
682

THE privatisation of Leeds Bradford Airport will take a major step forward this month when a shortlist of bidders is drawn up.
Potential buyers had to submit indicative bids by last Thursday and now experts from accountancy firm Ernst & Young, which is handling the sale of the local authority-owned airport, will draw up a shortlist of around three or four.
That is likely to be completed by the end of January with a preferred buyer announced by early April.
The sale of the airport at Yeadon by the five West Yorkshire councils which own it was announced late last year and is likely to reap each windfalls of millions of pounds.
Up to a dozen organisations are thought to have submitted indicative bids with offers for the airport likely to be well above £100m.
Favourites to be on the shortlist include a private equity bid being spearheaded by former Yorkshire Forward chairman Sir Graham Hall and a consortium involving construction giant Balfour Beatty which bought Exeter Airport for £60m earlier this month.
Industry experts believe that the airport is likely to attract worldwide interest and estimates suggest that it will fetch a price of between £100m and £140m.
Sources close to a number of the bidders have said that they expect the final figure to be around £120m.
The airport, which celebrates its 75th anniversary this year and had almost 2.8m passengers fly through it last year, is owned by Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Calderdale and Kirklees councils, with Leeds and Bradford each owning 40 per cent.
Groups which have declared an interest include Regional and City Airports, part of Balfour Beatty's specialist airport investment and development group.
The ambitious group is a joint venture between Balfour Beatty Capital, the group's investment arm. It already owns Exeter Airport, and London City Airport and is keen to expand its portfolio.
The group is being advised by Rod Hoare, the transport industry veteran who is the former chairman of the Heathrow Express and chief executive of Metronet, which runs part of the London Underground system.
Another bidder is private equity group Bridgepoint Capital whose bid is being led by Sir Graham Hall, former chief executive of Yorkshire Electricity and the former non-executive chairman of regional development agencies Yorkshire Forward and The Northern Way.
Bridgepoint is being advised by merchant bank N M Rothschild, led by its Leeds-based managing director David Forbes.
Richard Tollis, aviation partner with Ernst & Young, is heading the team handling the sale on behalf of the local authorities.
His team dealt with the £750m purchase of London City Airport last year as well as airports in Budapest, Hungary; Bratislava, Slovakia; and the sale of Newcastle Airport.
When the sale of Leeds Bradford was announced in December, Mr Tollis said it was likely to attract a great deal of interest. "Prices have been very buoyant in this market. We are already seeing strong interest because this may be the last opportunity to acquire a privatising regional airport in the UK."
It is thought unlikely that Manchester Airports Group – which is local authority-owned and operates Manchester, East Midlands, Bournemouth and Humberside airports – would be among the bidders for Leeds Bradford.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=56&ArticleID=1973689.

14 loop

16th Jan 2007, 12:55

......The group is being advised by Rod Hoare, the transport industry veteran who is the former chairman of the Heathrow Express and chief executive of Metronet, which runs part of the London Underground system......

Well that's reason enough not to sell it to Balfours!

TANGO100

17th Jan 2007, 10:34

Interesting to see that none of the rumoured parties are included in this list;
Jet2
BAA
Believe it or not Group4.
Any body want to add to the list !!:8

682ft AMSL

17th Jan 2007, 10:57

Depends whether there are really a dozen bidders as the press have speculated. The only ones we know about are the 4 who have chosen to make it public that they have bid. Potentially up to 8 other bidders who are keeping quiet at this stage.

Would be surprised to see anything other than airport operators or private equity groups in that list to be honest. Remember, even at £120m, the buyer is getting the airport on the cheap relative to the likes of BRS, NCL etc which were both sold for much more when at similar passenger volumes. That has to be a reflection of the work required in the next couple of years - runway resurfacing alone has been quoted at £17m - and I suspect both the buyers and sellers are viewing this as £120m to buy + £50m to renovate. Spend £170m, grow the passenger volumes, spread the risk on the route network and airline portfolio, lean on the local councils to pull their fingers out their behinds viz road improvements and one could easily have an asset worth £300m+ in a few years. If it were me I wouldn't even entertain a bid from anyone who wasn't thinking along these lines and couldn't demonstrate some proven track record in airport management.

Leodis

17th Jan 2007, 23:12

£120m to buy + £50m to renovate. Spend £170m, grow the passenger volumes, spread the risk on the route network and airline portfolio, lean on the local councils to pull their fingers out their behinds viz road improvements and one could easily have an asset worth £300m+ in a few years.
My sentiments entirely. The councils have to sell the airport to someone who is willing to invest.

682ft AMSL

18th Jan 2007, 22:20

Some interesting numbers in the OFT's paper on airport competition. Using data from the CAA passenger survery of 2005 it concludes that the overall number of passengers generated by the Yorkshire & Humberside region was 10million. Of the 10 million

45% (4.5m) used Manchester
25% (2.5m) used Leeds/Bradford
07% (0.7m) used "Midlands" airports
05% (0.5m) used Heathrow
04% (0.4m) used Stansted
04% (0.4m) used Humberside
03% (0.3m) used Liverpool

which leaves 7-8% or 0.7m / 0.8m at "other" airports. Not clear when the survery was done and therefore whether DSA is included in the other pot or not.

I would say the split seems to fit with my own anecdotal experience of speaking to friends and family, with the exception of LPL which has always seemed to get plenty of business from this part of the world. Maybe the recent rapid growth of Ryanair over there pre-dates the survery.

Nonetheless, the size of the prize for LBA if the right bidder can be found and if the right investments are be made, is clear. Couple of big 'ifs' there, but 6-7m pax going out of the region is not to be sniffed at.

682

682ft AMSL

23rd Jan 2007, 08:23

Looks like the opportunities the stats in the previous post have not gone unnoticed by those considering a bid. This from today's Yorkshire Post
(can we take it that the YP business editor's fascination with the Graham Hall bid is simply because he doesn't know anything about the other bidders. He was touting this as one of the favourites only last week, which seems remarkable if international airport groups are in the running)
682

Airport price 'more than £120m'Winning bid will be at high end of scale as panel draws up shortlist
Exclusive
David Parkin Business Editor
LEEDS Bradford Airport is likely to fetch substantially more than the £120m experts were predicting it would be worth when it is privatised later this year.
A shortlist of up to five bidders was drawn up yesterday by a panel representing the five West Yorkshire local authorities which own the airport.
And indicative bids already submitted by the groups which want to buy the Yeadon operation suggest that it will take a bid at the high end of the scale to secure its purchase. A total of 65 expressions of interest were received from groups interested in buying the airport and around a dozen submitted indicative bids earlier this month.
Those interested in buying the airport include international operators, other airport groups, private equity groups and infrastructure operators.
Among those known to be keen to purchase Leeds Bradford are a private equity bid being spearheaded by former Yorkshire Forward chairman Sir Graham Hall and a consortium involving construction giant Balfour Beatty which bought Exeter Airport for £60m earlier this month. Richard Tollis, the aviation partner at accountancy firm Ernst & Young, who is leading the team handling the sale of Leeds Bradford for its local authority owners, said: "I really do think we have got some very positive development proposals and that we are going to be able to secure a very attractive price."
The airport, which celebrates its 75th anniversary this year and had almost 2.8m passengers fly through it last year, is owned by Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Calderdale and Kirklees councils, with Leeds and Bradford each owning 40 per cent.
The selected bidders will have until the end of February to submit their final offers and then a preferred and reserve bidder will be announced by early April.
Final bids will be subject to an "upward only ratchet" so can only be increased once they are made.
Those close to the bidding process say that the price secured for the airport is likely to be around £150m.
The relative wealth of those living in the airport's catchment area is seen as a key attraction.
Bidders will also have to outline their plans to develop the airport's services.
Groups which have declared an interest include Regional and City Airports, part of Balfour Beatty's specialist airport investment and development group.
The ambitious group is a joint venture between Balfour Beatty Capital, the group's investment arm. It already owns Exeter Airport, and London City Airport and is keen to expand its portfolio.
The group is being advised by Rod Hoare, the transport industry veteran who is the former chairman of the Heathrow Express and chief executive of Metronet, which runs part of the London Underground system.
Another bidder is private equity group Bridgepoint Capital whose bid is being led by Sir Graham Hall, former chief executive of Yorkshire Electricity and the former non-executive chairman of regional development agencies Yorkshire Forward and The Northern Way.
Bridgepoint is being advised by merchant bank N M Rothschild, led by its Leeds-based managing director David Forbes, and law firm Addleshaw Goddard.
It is thought unlikely that Manchester Airports Group, which is local authority-owned and operates Manchester, East Midlands, Bournemouth and Humberside airports, would be among the bidders for Leeds Bradford.
[email protected]
23 January 2007

bobleeds

23rd Jan 2007, 18:51

The possibility of a sucessful bid by Balfour Beatty is fascinating. Their expertise in both the construction and railway industry conjour up the very real possibilty of early airport terminal and runway extensions/taxiway enhancements.

Added to this with smart lobbying of local and national government (Both Leeds and Bradford Councils will have some funds avaialble following the airport sale and Westminster still "owes" Leeds big style after pulling the plug on supertram) for imaginative funding, the creation of an electrified rail-link between Guiseley and Horsforth would not only serve the Airport from the Leeds, Harrogate/York, Bradford, Skipton areas and beyond, but also offer an extremely attractive peak-time commuter link (entirely within the West Yorkshire Metro area) doing much to alleviate the severe congestion in the established and rapidly growing North West Leeds dormitory corridor of Aireborough & Horsforth.

SWBKCB

23rd Jan 2007, 19:04

Far too sensible - haven't you heard of this Global Warming malarky? This isn't the time to be investing in efficient public transport solutions!;)

bobleeds

23rd Jan 2007, 20:22

Yeah I was probably dreaming - we are 175 miles north of Watford after all!

RAFAT

24th Jan 2007, 13:14

LBA has got to be THE worst runway in the UK. How they've not come under pressure from airlines that use LBA to get something done about it is beyond me, but of course this can only be accomplished by pilot reports to their Companies. In my view its condition is worth an ASR.

bobleeds

24th Jan 2007, 18:38

robo283

24th Jan 2007, 20:52

Who said it was the runway's fault? Could have been the a/c

RAFAT

25th Jan 2007, 11:38

bobleeds - Whilst the runway was unlikely to be the cause of this particular incident, its condition is absolutely shocking. There are literally hundreds of repaired 'potholes' of varying standards in the concrete, and even taxying along it is a most uncomfortable experience. In the late '90s commercial activity in and out of LBA was predominantly small to medium-sized turboprop/RJ and the occasional 737/757 or A320/A321, but with the success of Jet2 and the general increase in jet traffic the runway simply hasn't been able to cope.

bobleeds

25th Jan 2007, 13:55

Thanks RAFAT,

Yes as a regular LBA passenger, I know that taxiing and take off/landing is somewhat bumpy on the concrete surface, and you can see a number of the patches you refer to. It's about par for the course for something that is ownded partly by Leeds Council - If you think the runway's bad you should try driving on the local roads!

Seriously, presume over a period of time this exacerbates wear and tear on aircraft that use the airport on a regular basis.

Sounds like an early priority for the new owners to address once they are in place.

RobT100

3rd Feb 2007, 16:23

BA7602 BELFAST CITY 1615 LANDED 16:17
BA1843 GLASGOW 1615 LANDED 16:22
AF2568 PARIS CDG 1710 LANDED 17:10
BA7792 VIENNA 2000

A few interesting arrivals this afternoon - anyone any idea whats going on ? Diverts ??? (its over 2.5hrs until the vienna arrival !)

steve platt

3rd Feb 2007, 17:05

sat in my office at man airport cant see far out of window lots of divs out to leeds and birmingham few inbounds to from liverpool.

Jet2Leeds

3rd Feb 2007, 19:46

Jet2 flight from alicante to blackpool just land at leeds also 20.33

atc saying more to follow

??????????

DTVAirport

4th Feb 2007, 08:46

Could it be anything to do with the Piper Warrior crash that happened around 17:00 yesterday? Crashed just off the coast of Blackpool.

HOODED

4th Feb 2007, 08:59

No fog at MAN/BPL/LPL resulted in around 10 diverts into LBA including 2 Jet2s' one from BPL their ALC and the BUD from MAN. I believe a BMI from LHR and an AF from CDG plus various BA ac also and an Air Arran from MAN. All three airports were down to 100m with RVRs of around 250-300m. So no mystery really just weather.:}

robo283

4th Feb 2007, 20:37

Been a cracking weekend on the Costa del Leeds ;)

hottowel

6th Feb 2007, 17:49

Does anyone know the reasons why several BA flights have diverted to Leeds today? Cheers

spanishflea

6th Feb 2007, 18:49

Nasty fog at MAN. Looks like its going to hit in the morning again :(

LBIA

13th Feb 2007, 10:14

So now that My Travel are mergering with Thomas Cook do you think we may get an the in house airline TCX to operate the Charter programme in summer 2008?

Instead off using the likes of Astraeus over the last 2 seasons or bmi british midland this summer 07 season.

mmeteesside

13th Feb 2007, 10:59

I assume that MYT and bmi will have signed a 2 or 3 year contract on the base, seems like AEU got a 2 year contract.

GBALU53

21st Feb 2007, 07:31

Heard yesterday Tue the 20th there could be flights operating to the Channel Islands again operated by an operator from down in the Islands is this a possibilty or is this just another one of those.

The route was dropped a number of years ago due to Doncaster and Thompson taking the pax althought eh Leeds fares were high.

From what I can make out if the fares are of LCC and not up market this service sould work>

GLOBUSAIR

27th Feb 2007, 00:42

Hopefully some day soon we will see Chnl Isl. Flights back at LBA. Its pathetic that the only Service is a WOW charter throughout the summer that is packed full and only available via a tour operator.

bmi's high end pricing saw off the passengers plus the reliability factor was also poor. bmi regional services seem to canx frequently in particular the CDG & BRU. I remember when the flight was operated on Fokker100 equip and usually full!

It suprises me that BlueIslands have not picked up the route as i am sure they would make a great sucess of it using the JS32! Even a Guernsy tie up would be attractive me thinks. There has been rumour for some time now of the Jersey becoming a scheduled regular flight from Leeds once again so lets hope this year it will come about!

If not, anyone fancy getting finance for a JS32 and setting up our own !! :}

GLOBUSAIR

27th Feb 2007, 00:48

Iam not sure wat the contract agreement is with bmi.. they are not operating as broader sched for MYT as AEU did the last two years. I think the whole bmi charter was very last minute and I cant see it becoming a long term thing... but i will try find out!

Would be very nice to see MYT and TCX base equipment at Leeds now.. they have the bookings from travel brands on both sides and could easily fill a 757 or 321 from their own hanger! Furthermore competition from TUI is now minimal!

Surely they could save money and stop chartering the likes of HairyGropa, Iberworld, FCUKtura and LTE. :p

jet2_at_blk

27th Feb 2007, 06:15

Blue Islands were conducting a servey into what routes they should look into next just before Christmas. Unless they are taking their time, then it might be along time until we see a LBA route!

They said that a Northern route may not be viable. MAN will serve JER twice daily and Gernsey daily from this spring, so maybe a route from LBA would have too much competition from MAN - as JER pax can make a business trip within a day to MAN.

GBALU53

27th Feb 2007, 08:11

GLOBUSAUR.

I doubt very much if Blue Islands would look at sector lengths as long as Leeds with the Jetstrean after all the aircraft is a commuter bussiness airliner and not your bucket and spade or low cost carrier on that distance.

There is some thing in the pipe line if Blue Islands get a Guernsey-Southampton route licence they will be getting an aircraft or maybe more in the 50 seater market.

With the BAcon Dash 8 300 comming on the market and possible the odd ATR42 these are possible the aircraft that might operate on sector of Leeds length.

I agree that Leeds needs a connection to the Islands but needing the right aircraft and the money to spend on the route to make it work lets hope in the not to distant future the flowers will blume and more might be revealed.:ok:

mmeteesside

27th Feb 2007, 16:04

I doubt very much if Blue Islands would look at sector lengths as long as Leeds with the Jetstrean after all the aircraft is a commuter bussiness airliner and not your bucket and spade or low cost carrier on that distance.

They already fly Isle of Man from GCI-JER-IOM, must be a similar length to LBA? If so, no reason why they couldn't fly LBA.

GBALU53

27th Feb 2007, 18:21

mmeteeside.

Yes we know Blueislands operate the Channel Islands to IOM service but if you read the report the IOM is a finance centre and it is business travelers on it going for one or two days with a tooth brusn and a clean shirt.

Leeds would be differant more to you longer stay passenger meaning baggage which the Jetsreans has a pannier but will only take very small amout of baggage.

O.K. got the plot now.:ok:

jet2_at_blk

27th Feb 2007, 18:43

Plus, you can fly LON/MAN to NYC for the same price as a return fare between IOM and JER/Guernsey!

BE would wipe the floor with these fares!

Wellington Bomber

27th Feb 2007, 20:47

GBALU53

Leeds is the next largest financial centre after London in the UK

GBALU53

27th Feb 2007, 21:06

Wellington Bomber and mmeteeside

What we are talking about is the Channel Islands and the IOM are what they call in the finacial world as being off shore.

The have there own Government yet they take guide lines in some areas from the U.K. like drive on the same side of the road speak the very good Mrs Windsors English and there could be other.

jet2_at_blk

27th Feb 2007, 22:20

Surely there is no competition though.

BE from MAN - 70 seater
Blue Islands from LBA - 19 seater

The price would also be in completely different leagues.

LBIA

28th Feb 2007, 11:11

bmi regional have announced that they are to commence a new 6 times weekly French route from Leeds/Bradford to Lille. Flights will commence on Monday April 23rd 2007 and will be operated by the airlines Embrear 145 regional jet Aircraft. Flights are bookable on the airlines website with prices starting from £49 One-way including all Taxes and Charges.

An official announcement has made by bmi on its website. Use the following link to read it. www.flybmi.com (http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/aboutbmi/presscentre/pressreleases.aspx?year=2007&rid=1095)

I wont post the full press release here as i don't know if it's against the rules.

Leeds/Bradford – Lille Lesquin
BD499 12345-- 10:15 12:30
BD499 ------7 17:55 20:10
Lille Lesquin – Leeds/Bradford
BD500 12345-- 13:40 13:55
BD500 ------7 20:40 20:55

DTVAirport

28th Feb 2007, 11:14

That's an odd one! Sounds like an E135 route, with perhaps an E145 on the Sunday rotation.

jet2_at_blk

28th Feb 2007, 15:21

Surprised FR don't fly to Lille. They fly to every other airport unheard of to the public knowledge!

I think Lille is only known in this country for their football (soccer) team, especially after last Tuesday...

Godd to see BMI venturing into untapped markets. Good luck to them!

en2r

28th Feb 2007, 20:03

JET2_at_blk
FR don't fly there because Lille is only about an hour from their big base at Charleroi.

jet2_at_blk

1st Mar 2007, 07:05

Ow, I see now. cheers.

PPRuNe Pop

1st Mar 2007, 14:25

LBIA.

If you take it upon yourself to place links on here to promote a large company I suggest you ask them to pay PPRuNe for the pleasure. We DO NOT allow free ads. PPRuNe relies on revenue from advertising to give you and thousands of others the use of PPRuNe for free.

You can now have a short rest to ponder that.

PPP

robo283

1st Mar 2007, 14:33

Can I make a plea on behalf of LBIA (the user, not the airport itself). I found that piece of information (Shaheen Air) extremely useful, icluding the link. I appreciate your commercial sensitivity but the link itself was of considerable use to me for non-commercial but still important purposes.

PPRuNe Pop

1st Mar 2007, 14:40

You can, of course, seek it elsewhere yourself but it stays off PPRuNe.

PPP

682ft AMSL

5th Mar 2007, 09:55

bmi have 3 relatively low volume but very high yielding business routes to EDI, GLA and BRU which provide gainful employment in the morning, late afternoon and evenings for the Embraers. Using the downtime in between to operate leisure routes worked a few years ago but clearly doesn’t now given the developments in the low-cost market. Copenhagen and Lille will obviously not suffer from low-cost competition as much, but whether the routes prove attractive enough to the business market will remain to be seen. There has been zero “mass market” advertising of the Copenhagen route thus far which is either bmi adopting their usual telekinesis medium of promoting routes or they are working on corporate deals behind the scenes. Based on my personal connections with a large multi-national company for whom the LBA-LCY route should have been a shoe-in for a corporate deal, I suspect the telekinesis approach is being tried once again. If so, you are right to be pessimistic.
As we come back to time and time again, an airport like Leeds with a based regional arm of a star alliance carrier should be the perfect combo for FRA, MUC….blah blah blah. Slots, the influence of LH and no doubt other factors probably mean what you see at LBA is the inevitable result of where internal and external factors push them to. You cannot believe this is their first choice game plan

As for CDG, if PM had even the slightest whiff that the authorities at CDG were denying him slots such that a deal could be struck with AF, I’m sure we’d be hearing about it. The reason Jet2 aren’t doing more to CDG is either because (a) they don’t want to (b) they would like to, but they can’t fit it in with the summer schedule or (c) they do want to, they could fit it in, but they messed up the opportunity to get the bmi slots when they were handed back to the CDG slot-co-ordinators.

682ft AMSL

8th Mar 2007, 10:23

From this morning's Yorkshire Post. Little in the way of new news really other than to confirm the final bids have been submitted and a hint that some of the previous bullishness about the price might have been a bit too bullish.
682

THE groups competing to buy Leeds Bradford Airport submitted their final bids last night ahead of its privatisation which is expected to be completed next month.

Up to five groups have made the shortlist but those close to the bidding process say it could be as few as three.

Those believed to have made the shortlist include private equity group Bridgepoint Capital and a consortium involving construction giant Balfour Beatty which bought Exeter Airport for £60m earlier this year.

While speculation has suggested the airport could fetch as much as £150m it is thought that it is more likely to be about £120m.

The airport, which celebrates its 75th anniversary this year and had almost 2.8 million passengers last year, is owned by Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Calderdale and Kirklees councils, with Leeds and Bradford each owning 40 per cent.

Richard Tollis, the aviation partner at accountancy firm Ernst & Young, who is leading the team handling the sale of Leeds Bradford for its local authority owners, said that a decision on a preferred bidder would be made at a meeting of representatives of the councils on April 4. Bidders will also have to outline their plans to develop the airport's services.Groups which have declared an interest include Regional and City Airports, part of Balfour Beatty's specialist airport investment and development group.

Another bidder is private equity group Bridgepoint Capital whose bid is being led by Sir Graham Hall, former chief executive of Yorkshire Electricity and the former non-executive chair- man of regional development agencies Yorkshire Forward and The Northern Way. Bridgepoint is being advised by merchant bank N M Rothschild, led by its Leeds managing director David Forbes, and law firm Addleshaw Goddard.

682ft AMSL

8th Mar 2007, 12:58

Looks like the YP got scooped by The Times; much more specific info in this article and the price is back up by another 20 mil. GE Capital and "a local developer" are new names in the hat also. Does seem to be a distinct lack of experienced airport people though.
682

LONDON (AFX) - Construction firm Balfour Beatty PLC has teamed up with a French infrastructure fund to submit its final bid today for Leeds Bradford airport, The Times reported without naming sources.

The company has formed a joint venture with Galaxy, the European private equity fund specialising in infrastructure projects set up by the French state-owned bank Caisse des Dépôts et Consignations, to bid for the airport, which is now expected to sell for about 140 mln stg or 20 mln stg more than the original asking price, the Times reported.

The newspaper said that the five local authorities that own the northern regional airport have selected a handful of final bidders thought also to include GE Capital, the private equity firm Bridgepoint and a local developer. They have until today to submit final bids.

Balfour, which also tried and failed to buy London's City airport last year, bought Exeter City airport in October for 60 mln stg.

bmibaby.com

11th Mar 2007, 20:26

When do Jet2 start self-handling and how are plans going for this?

jet2impress

12th Mar 2007, 13:55

Self handling in LBA starts on 18th March. Not sure of further details.

freightdoggy dog

12th Mar 2007, 21:24

Shuperstar, how are the new recruits shaping up?

682ft AMSL

14th Mar 2007, 11:51

Another established airport operator confirmed as having made a bid, which is encouraging.
682

Abertis bids for Leeds-Bradford airport
MADRID (Reuters) - Spanish infrastructure firm Abertis has made a bid for regional airport Leeds-Bradford, put up for sale by five local councils last November, sources close to the deal said on Wednesday.

The sources said the airport would cost between 175 and 200 million euros (120-137 million pounds), confirming a report in Wednesday's El Pais newspaper.

Abertis already runs three British airports, London Luton, Belfast International and Cardiff International, through its controlling stake in airport operator TBI.

British builder Balfour Beatty confirmed in January it was on a shortlist of bidders in an auction for the airport worth at least 120 million pounds.

Last week The Times said Balfour Beatty had teamed up with French state-owned financial institution Caisse des Depots et Consignations, to bid around 140 million pounds.

The move comes at a time of strong investor interest in UK airports. Newcastle, Bristol, Exeter and London City airport have all recently changed hands, while BAA, operator of Heathrow and Gatwick, was bought by Spanish group Ferrovial .

El Pais said the bids would be evaluated in April and May for the airport which increased passengers numbers to 2.6 million last year.

BigT2207

16th Mar 2007, 10:12

Hello Everyone I am new here on PPRUNE. I have been lurking, reading posts for a while. I saw on here that Sharheen Air are to do a Leeds/Bradford direct service.

I wondered if It would be flying via Dubai. So I Looked up the Dubai airport website and LBA is one of the Destinations on there.

Big T

lba2006

16th Mar 2007, 10:20

The majority of UK airports are listed at destinations when they are not direct destinations.

682ft AMSL

28th Mar 2007, 16:45

The five short-listed bidders for the airport are confirmed as follows:

ABN AMRO-infratstructure, with Faros Investment Partners, a specialist airport management company. This bidder has strategic support from the First Bus Group

Barclays Private Equity infrastructure with Churchill Airports, a specialist airport management company

Bridgepoint infrastructure fund

Regional City Airports led by Balfour Beatty, with infrastructure fund Galaxy and airport operators Koln Bonn and AerRianta

TBI

A preferred and reserve bidder will be chosen from the above list on Wednesday 4th April. The result will be communicated on the evening of 4th April as follows;

9:00pm - preferred and reserve bidder notified
9:30pm - airport staff told of the bidders
10:00pm - press release issued

682

airhumberside

28th Mar 2007, 17:30

Im intrigued as tow what the strategic support will be - could involve a minority shareholding or acting as a consultant?

And how come the announcement will be made late at night?

robo283

29th Mar 2007, 10:50

"And how come the announcement will be made late at night?"

Presumably to give an exclusive to Radio Leeds and the Yorkshire Evening Post ;)

14 loop

29th Mar 2007, 16:25

Probably because the result will be dependent on a council executive meeting which is likely to be an evening affair....simple as.

robo283

29th Mar 2007, 20:43

In my experience, the Councils tend to work during the day...

No matter, it might be a typo. At least the waiting will be over. My money's on Balfour Beatty.

TheDesertFerret

29th Mar 2007, 21:11

I'll second that - don't waste your time calling a local authority after 1600. (1300 on Friday).

Did the ITT remit ever go public? That would've been interesting. As it is a municipal asset being sold off its only fair the owners (thats the public) get to know what the custodians (elected members) deem appropriate conditions if not aspirations for the successful bidder.

14 loop

30th Mar 2007, 06:36

Fully agree that most council functions only occur during the day, but council meetings tend to be held 1800 onwards - my mate was a Tory Councillor for Bradford and due to the fact that many hold down day jobs, evenings are the only times when they meet.

682ft AMSL's info and comment always very accurate!

robo283

31st Mar 2007, 20:12

The times are definitely right though.

My money's on Balfour Beatty..... (no inside knowledge tho)

BombardierCR7

4th Apr 2007, 19:57

According to Reuters at 20.30, Bridgepoint are the preferred.
I bet Peel and MAplc are P***ing themselves laughing

No details on the price yet.

wawkrk

4th Apr 2007, 20:17

Yes, I was afraid the council planks would go for the Yorkshire forward guy.
I was hoping for a more international company.
Probably they also promised to keep the dreadful Bradford name and we end up with a slightly bigger municipal airport.

robo283

4th Apr 2007, 20:54

Oh well...so much for my tip (Balfour Beatty). I won't give up my day job just yet...

TANGO100

4th Apr 2007, 22:08

Do we know the runner-up to Bridgepoint?
To be honest, a little disappointed, without knowing who the 2nd preferred bidder is I feel the true investment that the Airport needs will probably not come from Bridgepoint.
Sorry to say this but from a cash point of view, the councils will go for the highest bidder and not from an investment point of view
Bridgepoint has too many investments for my liking, as quoted from their website -
"Depth of experience in buying and selling businesses (Mmmmm...)*
In the last 10 years alone, we have completed over 150 transactions with a total value of €18 billion and in the last five years have sold businesses allowing us to return over €5 billion to our investors. Bridgepoint companies currently employ over 70,000 people across Europe with a combined turnover of €6 billion. "
I can't help feeling this is a bad move for the airport, Bridgepoint is too complex and diversifies in too many areas but if the sale does complete to Bridgepoint,time will only tell.
Mmmmmm.....

plasticAF

4th Apr 2007, 22:12

Tango100

The reserve bidder is Barcleys Private Equity with Chruchill Airports.
At least thats what BBC online news says!

kingdee

4th Apr 2007, 22:44

so does this mean the end of Mr Anderson and his crew?? Bear in mind they are councilers.

TANGO100

4th Apr 2007, 22:45

Interesting to see how the airports own website highlights the original 5 bidders, please note how Bridgepoint is explained -
"The five organisations selected were:
· ABN AMRO Infrastructure, an infrastructure fund of the Dutch investment bank, with Faros Investment Partners, a specialist airport management company.
· Barclays Private Equity infrastructure fund (who have held an interest with Luton airport in the past) with Churchill Airports, a specialist airport management company.
· Bridgepoint infrastructure fund, who were involved in the original privatisation of Birmingham International Airport.
· Regional and City Airports led by Balfour Beatty, who recently bought Exeter Airport with infrastructure fund, Galaxy and airport operators, Koln Bonn and Aer Rianta.
· TBI, who have interests in Luton, Cardiff and Belfast International airports and are 90% owned by Abertis, a large Spanish transport and infrastructure plc based in Barcelona who have airport interests in the USA and Latin America"
Birmingham International Airport - In June 2000, Bridgepoint Capital (formerly Nat West Equity Partners) increased their investment in the Airport, by Dec 2001 Macquarie Airports Group Limited acquired Bridgepoint Capital Limited shares.
Still not convincing me that this is the airports best option :sad:
Still diggin .....

TANGO100

4th Apr 2007, 22:52

Kingdee -

Looking into Bridgepoint (as you can see) I would think highly unlikely at this stage, Bridgepoint have too little knowledge/experience of airport management so I would only assume they would all have their jobs intact for the foreseeable future - SHAME!!

TANGO100

4th Apr 2007, 23:04

Airports comments from the website state -
"Leeds and Bradford councils each own 40% of the airport with the remainder split equally between Kirklees, Wakefield and Calderdale. The airport will continue to remain under the planning control of Leeds City Council and all of the five west Yorkshire authorities will also retain a ‘special share’ in the company. "
Special share - Puzzled by this one, can anyone explain ??
Still diggin.......

wawkrk

5th Apr 2007, 04:45

The special share for the existing owners also protects the name.
Seems like business as usual,or lack of it.
Nothing has changed except the paperwork.
Its a disaster.

robo283

5th Apr 2007, 05:51

Smacks of either a management buy out or a speculative acquisition with a view to selling on. So it's business as usual I suppose. Think about it from the management's point of view: there's a lot they might want to get done but couldn't due to a lack of additional investment from the councils. Bear in mind that the management aren't actually elected councillors, kingdee.

I was wondering what the 'special share' is as well. If Bridgepoint have 100% maybe the councils get a token share each so that they can go to the shareholders' meeting. Who knows (and we probably never will).

TANGO100

5th Apr 2007, 06:26

Buy-out/sell off !!

Look at Bridgepoint's portfolio, this airport needs serious ££££investment and I am not convinced that it will come from this source, I can see 2 years down the line this airport WILL be back on the market.

This company looks after its investors not its investment !! :ugh:

At least the second bidder has some nounce when it comes to airport know-how.

Still diggin........

TheDesertFerret

5th Apr 2007, 06:39

Crikey guys - not one of you have read the prospectus of the successful bidder (nor the others) and somehow the collective view is that this is a mistake - "disaster" in one case. Aren't you being a bit premature?

I believe there is a due diligence stage to go through before contracts are signed.

If I have a criticism it is not the choice of preferred bidder it is the lack of transparency of the process. I'd be inclined to make a freedom of information challenge unless more information is forthcoming.

14 loop

5th Apr 2007, 09:37

Must admit that my first reaction was disappointment....was hoping that we'd have a bidder with A) money B) existing relationships with airlines etc to develop the business. In this regard we've probably just got A.
Reading the thread I think we've gone into collective doom and gloom mode however!

TheDesertFerret makes good reading....the prospectus of the preferred bidder must contain something that set-it apart from the rivals. Don't forget that Ernst & Young were advising and they have played this game before. Bridgepoint must have been one of the higher bidders..that was part of E&Ys remit.

So, consider this, even if Bridgpoint are only looking to make a quick buck....they have to be able to sell the airport on for a higher figure than they paid for it. Now equity firms sometimes asset strip in oder to do this....but is there much to strip at LBA?..Probably not. So how do they go about making on the deal?

Well how about them spending on the place - allowing it to realise more of it's potential and then sell it on in a couple of years time with a more 'fit for purpose' infrastucture which in itself will be a more saleable asset. Chin up lads!

God or the devil will be in the detail of Bridgepoint's proposals!
Looking forward to some of our regular PPRuNe LBA posters to get on the case!

RobT100

5th Apr 2007, 10:47

I happen to have an open mind about this bid. Why bid if they don't want to buy ?

Simple but true, I look forward to their ownership if it comes off.

Leodis

5th Apr 2007, 16:06

Bridgepoint
What's the problem?
A company that wants to invest **** loads of money and sell for a whopping £000 000 000 ??? in as quicker time as possible.
Ideal.

RobT100

5th Apr 2007, 17:14

So that what it says on their bid ? Come on calm down leodis, don't be so paranoid.

The council have the last word on who it sells to, I doubt very much theyre going to leave it in the hands of some "fly by nights".

robo283

5th Apr 2007, 19:58

Hmmm...I managed to convince some of my colleagues that the land was going tgo be redeveloped as a housing estate. After a quick discussion, they all agreed that this made sense with DSA and MAN not too far away and given the famous Leeds traffic congestion. However as I thought Balfour Beatty would be preferred it shows how much I know :E

Leodis

6th Apr 2007, 15:54

We all know that the probable under the table handshake is by far the most important deal here. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see something pop out of the woodwork from the council chambers after the smoke has cleared.:}
On a serious note though, I feel that Bridgepoint will be good for the airport given that the airport must remain an airport. With that in mind no company would take the place on without wanting to develop the site into a much more healthier acquisition to sell to an airport operator at a later date for a far greater price.

A300BOY

6th Apr 2007, 22:37

Lets face it they can only be better than we have had for the last thirty years so lets give them a chance ! Maybe they will have an ideas promotion so we can all chip in with our suggestions.:)

Flightrider

7th Apr 2007, 11:07

Bridgepoint is most unfortunate. It means that the airport cannot benefit from any of the opportunities of being part of a group of airports to do "bulk deals" with airlines for new services, which is something that Peel Holdings and Manchester Airports seem to be doing with some degree of success between other UK regional airports.

It also means that they will probably have to pay the going rate for any construction requirements. Being majority-owned by a large construction firm would have had its advantages in terms of access to resources at (presumably) very competitive rates. With the Balfour Beatty bid, they would have been ideally placed to build up the infrastructure at a lower price, then realise a significantly higher sale price some years later. Heaven knows, enough investment in infrastructure is needed - road access improvements, extra starter/run-off strips on each end of 14/32, extending the pier down the side of the main apron etc.

It is probably the worst of all worlds as far as the airport is concerned. One is bound to wonder whether the airport's largest airline customer has been involved behind the scenes, so as to ensure that the winning bidder was someone whom it could still push around to do what it wanted.

Leodis

9th Apr 2007, 01:22

Interesting point about the so-called bulk deals. Does this mean the "Peel deal" with the chice of Thomson or Ryanair.:rolleyes: I'll stick with Bridgepoint.

RobT100

10th Apr 2007, 19:37

Other news is that the winter IWD charter to ACE has been pulled for 07/08 season, real shame that.

wawkrk

10th Apr 2007, 20:22

My favourite to buy the airport was always Bridgepoint.
I had a sinking feeling it could happen because I think Sir Graham Hall may have played on his connection with Yorkshire Forward.
It would have appealed to councillors that LBA would not loose it`s Yorkshire identity (and name).Also, the councils get their money but do not have to worry too much about huge politically sensitive expansion plans ever taking place.
So what do we know so far.
Improvement in the quality of the runway. Re-surfacing?
Lots of new shops. Where?
Improved restaurants, the existing ones?
More routes, how? this one is the real puzzle.
Some deal with Jet2?
Huge start up incentives for Ruskin Airways etc?
I hope I am completely wrong in my cynical assessment.
wawkrk

HOODED

11th Apr 2007, 16:48

Wawkrk, how do you resurface a concrete runway? I guess the old surface is just covered with asphalt? As for Bridgepoint lets just wait and see if they're out to make a quick buck, if so expect to see things happen fairly quicky. I myself don't see it happening, more likely they'll grow the airport slowly and then sell it off for a profit.

wawkrk

11th Apr 2007, 22:05

(Wawkrk, how do you resurface a concrete runway? )
I am not an expert but I imagine the old surface needs to be broken up to a reasonable depth before the new surface is laid. Hopefully this time using asphalt which is easier to maintain.

BigT2207

12th Apr 2007, 07:02

Do Bridgepoint have to follow the Masterplan?

BigT

robo283

13th Apr 2007, 09:13

Unless that was part of the deal, I would not have thought so. I would imagine that they could tear the Masterplan up and start again if they wanted to.

How long will it take to break up the concrete surface and relay it? Will everyone have to decamp to Donnie for the duration?

wawkrk

13th Apr 2007, 18:36

There aint going to be a masterplan with the huge 70m that Bridgepoint plan to invest. Most of it going on shops. No new terminal. Forget the cobbled runway.We cant even dream about an extension.
So, a shopping centre it is then.Well Leeds & Bradford councils.
I hope we at least get a new motorway from Leeds to Donny.
Good luck Donny

wawkrk

14th Apr 2007, 17:40

Bridgepoint

So 70m to invest over 10 years.

New terminal 40m
Re-surface runway 20m
300m extension 40m
Parallel taxiway 30m
Technical aids etc 10m
More apron space 20m
So about 160M

Proposed investment 7m per year.
Profits in 2007 5m so 2m spent
Profit in 2008 6m so 1m spent
Profit in 2009 8m so 1m recovered.
And so it goes.

Most of the talk is about more shops and much bigger duty free, why?
What percentage of flights are outside the EU?
I doubt if any of the above main investments will take place.
The existing council owners could have done the same if they had not taken the money.
I reckon Peel Holdings will have fallen off their boardroom chairs with laughter.
They cannot believe their luck.
All we need now is Jet 2 to scram away to DSA and that will be the end.

If I have got it all wrong, then I will be very pleased.

wawkrk

682ft AMSL

14th Apr 2007, 20:10

Wawkrk - almost all of the above is at best ubsunstantiated and at worst made up. Do yourself, and everyone else a favour by saving the debate for when we all have some facts and understanding of what the new owners are proposing. I say "new owners" rather than Bridgepoint because I have seen nothing yet which confirms they are still the preferred bidder ahead of the Barclays Private Equity bid. Both have until Monday to confirm their bids after having had 6 working days from the 5th to review the final and most commercially sensitive due dilligence reports.
Making stuff up in the meantime and then arguing that it's not good enough seems a waste of effort.
682

wawkrk

15th Apr 2007, 07:17

OK 682, your points are taken.
At this stage nobody knows what are the development costs, so we can only guess.Maybe I am a doom and gloom monger.
But, if it is true what has been stated on another website.
70m over 10 years, then I have a point.
It has been said many times, that the new owners need to spend at least as much again as they paid for the airport.
We all know what needs to done and I just don`t see it on what has been said so far.

robo283

15th Apr 2007, 19:51

Sorry 682 I have to stand by WAWKRK on this. This is an appropriate place to speculate and to raise possible concerns and / or points of interest. If not, what is the point of the forum?

It is not surprising that nothing has been made public in the interim period. The two bidders will be holding in-depth discussions with LBIA management to find out the 'warts and all'. We will just have to wait a few more days.

Would Barclays Private Equity be any better as an owner? Barclays Bank PLC are very good at making profits (i am an account holder of thirty years standing!:\ :mad: ) but how good are they at investing in airports? I presume they are one and the same :eek:

RobT100

15th Apr 2007, 21:46

Now I have to stand with 682ft on this on, wawkrk I am sorry you are generally a good poster but there really is no need for that type of outlook.

If Bridgepoint buy, they buy. LBA is a cracking airport I think we all agree with that but it also has its flaws. Whatever happens...happens. I am not going to get into a debate about what might happen; time has shown that all sorts of injustices happen, if it happens here it happens.

I will not lose sleep over it, as much as I like LBA, and I would have thought neither will most other folks.

Give things a chance......:)

jonathan78

16th Apr 2007, 12:29

what range does LBA runway have at the moment can it handle a non-stop flight to new york or does it need the 300m extension

Leodis

16th Apr 2007, 16:13

This question is asked over and over again.:bored:

It depends on the aircraft type basically.

The Boeing 757 cannot make a direct trip to Canada or New York from runway 32 at Leeds without a restrictive take-off weight because of the Chevin. The Boeing 767-200 and 767-300 wouldn't have a problem. As for the new Boeing 787 I don't know.

The runway would benefit with an extension to both ends. A runway extension to the end of runway 32 would allow for greater stopping distances for instance, but it wouldn't really help the situation for a 32 departure. For the same reason, an extension to the North West end would increase the take-off run on runway 14.

The airport would benefit the most from an extension to the end of runway 14 at the South East end of the runway. By extending the runway at that end, margins would be improved at both ends of the runway for take-off and landings.

wawkrk

16th Apr 2007, 17:20

Further to my earlier contoversial posting.
I know this is old news but maybe not everybody saw it.

Bridgepoint's bid chairman, Sir Graham Hall, said that the company planned to add routes to more destinations, as well as increasing the number of flights, if it was successful in its bid. It had achieved similar goals at Birmingham Airport, before selling its stake to other investors.

Sir Graham said the company would also work to improve the quality of the airport and its runways, while also increasing the number of passengers it can handle. It would also improve the airport terminal's shops and restaurants.

wawkrk

robo283

17th Apr 2007, 09:08

No mention of improving Central Screening then :ugh:

PTH needs tarmac

19th Apr 2007, 01:37

From the publically available bid scoring system for the 5 shortlisted bids on the Leeds Council webiste it is slightly disappointing to see that 80/100 marks were just for how much (70/100) and how sure are we that they can pay that (10/100). Only 20/100 marks were split between how much experience the bidder had in running an airport and what they proposed to do to develope LBA should they be selected, plus could they honour the pension commitments.

Whoever is selected will still be a major employer for the area (plus dependent companies), a tax payer, and providing a vital transport role for the region.

Undoubtably this points weighting is why the result was slightly unexpected. Bridgepoint just offered the most money. Niave to expect otherwise these days! I would be interested to read the full development proposals from each bidder.

PTH