CORK - 4

[EI-DHC]

As far as I know, the loads and yields on Kerry-Liverpool were disastrous. Aer Arann's well established Kerry-Manchester route didn't help things. Loads were always good from Cork, and there clearly was demand for a daily service. Also the fact that EI are starting Cork-Manchester may have had an influence. As far as I know, landing fees are the same as when they moved the 3 flights to Kerry.

Thanks for that.

It's a pity for Farranfore airport that it didn't work out.

[ryan2000]

The based Ryanair aircraft is only in the air for about 6 hrs a day, an incredibly short utilisation period. Amazing that common sense can't prevail between CAA and Ryanair. Surely they can do a deal if the will is there.

[EI-BUD]

It seems that Ryanair had no strategic interest in Cork, and they only went in there to have a base to serve LGW from in Competition with Easyjet. Dublin seemed like the best high frequency destination.

Aer Arann have been saying publicly that FR are not making money on ORK DUB, which surprises me , as everytime i used the flights they were quite full. However, this is no guide to viability as we never know what fares have been collected! I would not be surprised if the ORK base is not expanded. I would also not be surprised if FR close the 'base'(base with 1 a/c!!!), and move the aircraft to Dublin , operate the route from Dublin with a very early departure . And in addition, the LGW route could be operated in a W pattern in conjunction with the Dublin flights or perhaps the SNN ones. LPL could come from LPL ac as is the case I think at the moment anyway... What does anyone else think?

The STN ORK flights could also do w pattern to facilitate LGW or any ORK flights for that matter.....???

[ryan2000]

I agree that it's pointless having a base at Cork to just fly up and down to Dublin and do a return flight each day to Gatwick

[ryan2000]

I agree that it's pointless having a base at Cork to just fly up and down to Dublin and do a return flight each day to Gatwick

[en2r]

I agree that it's pointless having a base at Cork to just fly up and down to Dublin and do a return flight each day to Gatwick

I don't think the base will be pulled any time soon. It serves a strategic purpose. It helps scare off any other LCCs who might be considering opening a base. The whole Easyjet episode highlights this perfectly. Ryanair don't want any other airlines coming in and offering loads of destinations from Cork that they fly to from Shannon. Their Shannon base could not survive without Cork people making the two hour trek. Cork would probably be better if Ryanair did close the base, and they got in Easyjet or Jet 2 who might actually want Cork to succeed.

[akerosid]

It seems FR has a plan for Cork, according to today's Indo:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1746661&issue_id=15043

They want to add four more aircraft (which EI will no doubt love), but ... they want to operate from the old terminal.

ORK is apparently in a bit of a fix, because of the debt being transferred to them and I can't imagine FR adding an awful lot of revenue, but it'll certainly add pax numbers.

[fanatic1]

That seems like a really attractive deal. I'd go for it!

But then again, the cost would be immense.

[RE72]

Possible New FR Routes ... In My Opinion


CORK TO:

- Paris Beauvais
- Glasgow Prestwick
- East Midlands
- Madrid
- Frankfurt Hahn
- Brussels Charleroi
- Barcelona Girona
- Edinburgh
- Nantes

[ryan2000]

There is no question of the old terminal being brought back into use. Cork simply can't afford two terminals. There is plenty capacity in the new terminal.

Aerlingus not exploiting Cork's full potential. Plenty room for new Ryanair routes. Aer Arann could be the big loser if Ryanair target ORK to EDI PIK BRS HURN NTE etc.

[fanatic1]

Saw in the echo that yesterday Cork Airport reached the 3 millionth passenger mark when Evelyn Slyne arrived from Dublin with Aer Arann.

That has really sent all speculation of not reaching it down the drain. Thank God!

[en2r]

Saw in the echo that yesterday Cork Airport reached the 3 millionth passenger mark when Evelyn Slyne arrived from Dublin with Aer Arann.

That has really sent all speculation of not reaching it down the drain. Thank God!

At last some good news for the airport. However if they don't get their act together we may see negative numbers next year.

[EI896]

Possible New FR Routes ... In My Opinion


CORK TO:

- Paris Beauvais
- Glasgow Prestwick
- East Midlands
- Madrid
- Frankfurt Hahn
- Brussels Charleroi
- Barcelona Girona
- Edinburgh
- Nantes

Those are all possible routes yes but what really cracks me up is when half of ye all start blabing all these routes out for no reason... Three points.

1.) Cork Airport won't get an expansion from FR for a long time because of their landing fees.....

2.) If FR did make an expansion it would be to drive an airline out like what they did to EasyJet. Ryanair promised 3 tijmes to LGW a day then EasyJet were operating at a loss with the airplanes not full and Ryanair winning he route they gave up and then Ryanair droped to 1 route a day!!! Funny stuff!!! From 5 times a day to 1 all because of MO'L lying through his teeth. The only reason Ryanair did make an expansion lately out of the Liverpool route again is because there was absoloutly no demand from Kerry, it shows if there landing fees were low but FR couldn't fill up the flights.

3.) Ryanair aren't expanding because the landing Fees are too high and Cork Airport won't give them a discount cause they own EINN because Shannon was desperate at the time. And Cork is not, why would Cork give away an old terminal barely capable of running itself and then if they were trafficing all the passengers thrpugh that terminal what would be the point of our new one at all??? What happened to the new terminal that was going to be "built" in Killeagh that somebody heard their Granny's Friend's Mother's Dog's Owners cat's Gran-daughters kittens cousin's Owner's next door neighbour heard about a new "Stansted" to be built on a WWII airstrip???

This is all a bit ironic but just save it next time. And everybody is entitled to their opinion but not to an extent where we make progress and then end up at the first message again.

[ryan2000]

Ryanair will never get a discount of any description from Cork to act as a predator on existing routes.

There is a generous scheme available on genuine new routes.

Murcia, Gerona, Ciampino, Beauvais among others will not qualify for discounts due to EI's presence on BCN, CDG.FCO and ALC.

Similarly Aer Arann, BMI Baby and Jet 2 have all the worthwhile UK routes tied up while WIZZ,Central Wings and EI have the 5 major Polish Cities from Cork.

So if Ryanair want to expand at Cork they'll probably have to meet the competition head on as happened in Dublin.

[ryan2000]

Aerlingus, BMI Baby, Aer Arann, Wizz and Central Wings are all operating routes from Cork that are in broad competition with Ryanair flights from Shannon. It's also obvious from the amount of cars registered inn Limerick and Clare in the carparks at Cork Airport that its not all one way traffic.

If Ryanairs Shannon operation is such a brilliant move why has MOL drawn attention to disappointing yields there on several occasions over the last year and a half?

[Charlie Roy]

As anna_list and ryan2000 pointed out in the Ryanair thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=254615&page=5), 6 rotations are likely for Ryanair's Cork aircraft for Summer 2007.
4 to DUB are already in the booking engine.
That leaves 2 yet to be revealed.

I'm dying of curiousity here!

I also think they'll keep the afternoon daily to LGW.
So what evening rotation will they squeeze in?

Maybe Manchester to directly compete with Aer Lingus / BMI Baby.
Or Prestwick (screaming out to be served from Cork).
Or East Midlands to try to damage Aer Lingus / BMI Baby on the Birmingham route...
Or Luton (why not?)

[840]

There's a Gatwick rotation in there too, but it overlaps with one of the Dublin ones currently. Also, the aircraft spends an unusually long period on the ground in Dublin, mid-morning [assuming they aren't rotating aircraft there]. I'd say we'll see some changes in the schedule yet.

[dwlpl]

As anna_list and ryan2000 pointed out in the Ryanair thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=254615&page=5), 6 rotations are likely for Ryanair's Cork aircraft for Summer 2007.
4 to DUB are already in the booking engine.
That leaves 2 yet to be revealed.

I'm dying of curiousity here!

I also think they'll keep the afternoon daily to LGW.
So what evening rotation will they squeeze in?

Maybe Manchester to directly compete with Aer Lingus / BMI Baby.
Or Prestwick (screaming out to be served from Cork).
Or East Midlands to try to damage Aer Lingus / BMI Baby on the Birmingham route...
Or Luton (why not?)

Given the timings it looks like a Prestwick return.

[en2r]

Given the timings it looks like a Prestwick return.
I wouldn't be that sure. The aircraft arrives in Cork at 20.40. It will only be able to leave again at 21.05. That's very late to be starting a return rotation. Guessing a flight time to Prestwick of 75 minutes (It's 65 from Shannon), it would be there at 22.20. Allowing a 25 min turnaround, it would be midnight by the time it got back to Cork. There seems to be a lot of time wasted in the afternoon on the flight to Gatwick. Guessing a new flight time of 14.25, the plane could be back in Cork by 17.40, yet the evening Dublin flight doesn't leave until 18.35. If this were tightened up, as well as the 45 minute turnaround in Dublin between the second Return flights then maybe Prestwick will be launched. Otherwise we may see the aircraft finishing for the night at 20.40.

P.S. has anyone seen the timetable on the Cork Airport website.
http://www.corkairport.com/flight_info/timetables.html
It has different timings again for the first two flights from March, but for the last two flights there is the old timings! It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Tom the Tenor]

Not so sure what is happening in the Ryanair mindset as regards Cork in summer 2007 but it is at first glance somewhat worrying. As of now Gatwick is no longer bookable from Cork after 30th June, 2007. Sure, it is early days yet but if Cork is left for a third time in recent years without a Gatwick service from this summer Cork Airport will have no one to blame but herself after so shabbily sitting by last year allowing easyJet to be devoured by Ryanair with little or no word or action.

Last summer Cork Airport had no less than 5 or so daily flights from easyJet and Ryanair to and from Gatwick and now there may yet be no flights at all on the route from 1st July, 2007. If this comes to pass it will be another big blow to the credibility of Cork Airport in her efforts to be regarded as a serious player for business throughout Europe. London routes are the bread and butter of Cork Airport and a Gatwick service must be maintained at all costs. Prestwick would be very nice, yes, and is more realistic than, say, New York to achieve but a London service wins hands down if there must be a choice between the two?

[ryan2000]

Logistical problems with a 6th rotation as its hard to see a crew working for 10 hours.

[en2r]

Logistical problems with a 6th rotation as its hard to see a crew working for 10 hours.
As far as I know, in some bases they make staff work 16 hour shifts!!

[EI-BUD]

Not so sure what is happening in the Ryanair mindset as regards Cork in summer 2007 but it is at first glance somewhat worrying. As of now Gatwick is no longer bookable from Cork after 30th June, 2007. Sure, it is early days yet but if Cork is left for a third time in recent years without a Gatwick service from this summer Cork Airport will have no one to blame but herself after so shabbily sitting by last year allowing easyJet to be devoured by Ryanair with little or no word or action.

Last summer Cork Airport had no less than 5 or so daily flights from easyJet and Ryanair to and from Gatwick and now there may yet be no flights at all on the route from 1st July, 2007. If this comes to pass it will be another big blow to the credibility of Cork Airport in her efforts to be regarded as a serious player for business throughout Europe. London routes are the bread and butter of Cork Airport and a Gatwick service must be maintained at all costs. Prestwick would be very nice, yes, and is more realistic than, say, New York to achieve but a London service wins hands down if there must be a choice between the two?

I read with interest your comments above Tom the Tenor. With interest in particular to the comment Cork airport sat by and allowed easyjet to be devoured by Ryanair on the Gatwick route without word or action.

In effect it is true that Ryanair did come in an sabotage easyjet attempts to successfully operate a good schedule on the route but to be fair I dont think any blame can be directed towards Cork airport, I mean airlines can fly where they like at what ever frequency they like for the most part in side Europe (obviously there are limiting factors at various airports ie Slots and all that) but it was kind of obvious that Ryanair would follow easyjet onto the route. What do you suggest the airport authority should have done. I for one think the airport wont lose credibility on this one, I think it is a stark message to other low cost airlines who think of venturing onto Irish soil.

What the Cork Airport Authority got in effect was Ryanair basing an aircraft and launching a Dublin route and whatever the future hold for Cork and Ryanair together is probably in the airports favour. Well certainly if the comments on here come to pass about increased activity?


Re the other comments on above about the updated Cork schedules on RYanair.com
It is obvious that one a/C is doing 3 CORK/DUBLIN sorties and then free from 1400 to 1835 ....and then a Dublin return trip.

The LGW flight is obviously by a different ac as it takes off at 1255, while ac 1 is on the ORKDUB route... Perhaps the ORKLGW schedule is not confirmed or as many have said changes will happen.

Is there a second aircraft going to Cork.

As regards speculation about new routes. Top tips for me include Prestwick, (couldnt see them adding London capacity), Spannish destinations of Gerona, Murcia, or perhaps Malta? I cant see them going onto Manchester or Birmingham.

[ryan2000]

Ryanair were not given any deal to launch Cork Gatwick and Cork Dublin.
Furthermore Easyjet also had to pay full charges on the route.
Easyjet's load factors were quite good but their yield was disappointing. The major problem they had was that the vast majority of Irish people travelled with EI and FR.
Easyjet didn't have the same brand recognition with Cork people, how many even checked their website before booking?
There are many other low costs operating into Cork successfully without provoking a response from Ryanair. It was Easyjet's decision to compete on a London Route that irked Ryanair.

[RE72]

The LGW flight is obviously by a different ac as it takes off at 1255, while ac 1 is on the ORKDUB route... Perhaps the ORKLGW schedule is not confirmed or as many have said changes will happen.


This is not the case, DUB - ORK and ORK - LGW are all operated by the ONE SINGLE AIRCRAFT.

ORK - DUB 0740 - 0830
DUB - ORK 0855 - 0945
ORK - DUB 1010 - 1100
DUB - ORK 1135 - 1225
ORK - LGW 1255 - 1420
LGW - ORK 1450 - 1615
ORK - DUB 1725 - 1815
DUB - ORK 1840 - 1930
ORK - DUB 1955 - 2045
DUB - ORK 2110 - 2200

SOURCE : RYANAIR TIMETABLE 8th Jan

[en2r]

RE72

The Cork-Dublin timetable is changing, that's what this whole debate has been about

[Tom the Tenor]

If Ryanair are to drop LGW which will sure be a shame I guess it would be just too much to hope they would be really creative and go somewhere really new from Cork rather than trying to muscle in on some of the existing type business. They hardly will though as much of their route network is now so well served from their large base at Shannon and they will not to compromise that in any way? The best we can hope for is that the CAA will be on their guard and will want to keep the present routes safe. Let us hope they do.

It should have been mentioned a little before now but with New Year etc it was kind of forgotten but there was a very interesting landing at Cork last Sunday on New Year's Eve. There was a 40 kt wind blowing across 17/35 as the EI857 returned from Alicante so the flight did an ILS to 17 down to 1200 feet before breaking off for a landing to runway 25! Remember, runway 25/07 at Cork is just over 4000 feet long! I understand the A320 was fairly light at the time so whatever were the criteria for a landing to runway 25 in the prevailing conditions of the time were met.

Food for thought though? Runway 25/07 should arguably be the main runway at Cork as it would suit the prevailing winds and even more so bearing in minds the recent gales that caused a number of diversions. Cork Airport should have a flag day to collect a few Euro for a few airbridges and for an extension to runway 25.

Have also heard that EI are keen on using Stand 9T for overnight parking from next week after CSA quit Cork. It looks like they will get it too but one of the conditions is that they will have to use the airbridge and there are reports that staff from EI have recently been trained up on the use of same.

[brian_dromey]

Have also heard that EI are keen on using Stand 9T for overnight parking from next week after CSA quit Cork. It looks like they will get it too but one of the conditions is that they will have to use the airbridge and there are reports that staff from EI have recently been trained up on the use of same.

I think since the new terminal opened one of the EI aircraft has overnighted @ stand 6? Surely having all teh aicraft in front of the terminal would be easier for both staff and passengers? My guess is that it would be mainly used for LHR flights, along with perhaps a few others when the LHR aircraft operating LHR is in the air. I would dearly love to see this happen.

Incidnetly, I saw a Jet2 flight parked at stand T9 a few days ago, and it also appeared to be using the airbridge. Does ANY aircraft which parks @ T9 have to use the airbridge then? Or do Jet2 use airbridges throughout the nework, they certainly do not at LBA!

[Tom the Tenor]

Yes, one of the EI A320s has been overnighting on Stand 5 since the new terminal opened and unless EI take up Stand 9T after next week and use the airbridge Malev will get use of the facility. My info is that Cork is not charging for the use of the airbridge at the moment and bmi baby, Jet2, Central Wings are all trying it out. Ryanair and Wizz are the clear no takers at the moment. Hope Cork does get a second airbridge for the whole EI operation as it would tie in nicely with their using of airbridges at most of their destinations ex Cork. Cork passengers deserve no less in our weather.

A bit of sad news is that the Air Atlantique Lockheed L188 Electra will go out tonight for the final time and from next week the DHL service will be replaced by an ATP aircraft. It seems that the Electra was not that much cheaper than the 757 to operate!

Cork Airport and the BAe ATP. A marriage made in heaven!

[Charlie Roy]

This is not entirely online yet, but this is the likely schedule for Cork's solitary Ryanair aircraft from March 26th:

ORK - DUB 0635 - 0725
DUB - ORK 0750 - 0840
ORK - DUB 0905 - 0955
DUB - ORK 1040 - 1130
ORK - DUB 1155 - 1245
DUB - ORK 1310 - 1400
ORK - LGW 1450 - 1615
LGW - ORK 1645 - 1810
ORK - DUB 1835 - 1925
DUB - ORK 1950 - 2040
ORK - ??? 2105 - 2205ish
??? - ORK 2230 - 2330ish

For the last rotation my money is on Manchester or East Midlands to drive BMIbaby out of Cork and hurt AerLingus, Stansted or Liverpool to free up a rotation at one of those bases, or another rotation to Dublin to piss us all off :}

I think it'll be another 2 weeks though (as is often the case with the loading of new Ryanair schedules) before we know the whole story... :(

PS: For an aircraft which has 6 rotations a day, it is quite typical for Ryanair to have "gaps" in the schedule (here 0955 - 1040 and 1400 - 1450) to catch up any delays, amongst other things. One crew would work 0635-1400 and a second crew would work 1450 - 2330ish.

[dwlpl]

For the last rotation my money is on Manchester or East Midlands to drive BMIbaby out of Cork and hurt AerLingus, Stansted or Liverpool to free up a rotation at one of those bases, or another rotation to Dublin to piss us all off :}



No chance of the MAN route happening before 9th July because it will compete with its own route to Liverpool ex Cork that deps 2135.

[Charlie Roy]

dwlpl

I'm not convinced. Ryanair would be aiming at taking passengers from BMIbaby who also have an evening flight between Cork and Manchester... Two Ryanair flights leaving Cork at the same time, one going to Liverpool, and the other going to Manchester doesn't strike me as that incredible.

[edmunster]

Charlie Roy your schedule is pretty accurate.The last rotation will be to Dub and back.

[Charlie Roy]

Cork Airport will have no one to blame but herself after so shabbily sitting by last year allowing easyJet to be devoured by Ryanair with little or no word or action.

Correct me if I'm wrong:
1. Easyjet bullied BMIbaby off the Cork - Gatwick route
2. Ryanair bullied Easyjet off the Cork - Gatwick route

Biggest bully wins :}
I can't see a lot that Cork Airport can do about it. It's the nature of the whole business. Just like how AerLingus are trying to bully BMIbaby off Birmingham and Manchester. They're all at it!

[Charlie Roy]

edmunster

So if the last rotation is to be DUB, then the schedule should probably be like:

ORK - DUB 2105 - 2155
DUB - ORK 2220 - 2310

I'm fairly disgusted really that Ryanair are just using their aircraft to fly to Dublin all day :( Okay it's great news for most people who would really like or need to travel regularly to Dublin. But if I was scheduling that aircraft I could think of a dozen routes I'd like to use it on before Dublin. Seems like a waste...

[EI-BUD]

RE72

May 17 as an example. FR have a flight on ORKDUB at 1155/1245... my point is if ORK LGW leaves at 1255 when the ac is in DUB how could it be the same ac? The info I am refering to is the summer times as are stated on Ryanair's website. Besides all the talk of FR schedules and changes refer to the summer tt which will come in, around early April.

Please do check the dates at random to satify yourself of my information.The same times are still showing for May/Jun and July I havent checked any other months.

[ryan2000]

EI-BUD, they can change Gatwick to a slightly later time and do it with the Cork based aircraft. Could be a 2nd plane but I wouldn't count on it given that they are constantly mouthing about the so called high charges at Cork Airport.

[Charlie Roy]

EI-BUD

During the process of uploading the new schedules, not everything is uploaded at once. Therefore there are always be contradictory schedules for any particular aircraft.

Believe us: the 1255 LGW flight WILL get rescheduled to 1450! We all know it still says 1255 on the Ryanair website for May. But we also know from experience that Ryanair often put summer flights on sale with winter times before the summer schedule is ready. Then when the summer schedule is ready there'll be 1, 2, even 3 weeks of chopping and changing of the online schedule before the new schedule is fully clear / available.

[RE72]

I to believe that the new late departure will be ORK-DUB-ORK, as it will operate head on with the RE last departure of the day from DUB - ORK @ 2230.

This is what its all about, personally i feel that MOL isnt to bothered with ORK, he has a personal vendetta against RE, which he has shown before towards RE staff @ DUB, and his sole objective is to run RE off the DUB - ORK route.

Also, The new earlier departure out of ORK coincises with the RE first departure on the ORK-DUB sector, all in all, it looks like FR is stepping up a gear on its war with RE

[brian_dromey]

I can understand why the FR summer schedule will have 5x DUB and 1X LGW, but I think that the company would be much better off to do 4X DUB and 2x LGW, as with those departures there is significant possibilities for connections to long haul destinations.

RE have clearly shown that they are well able to fight competition on this route, and as far as I am concerned FR and RE have two seperate markets. REs passenegrs are mainly on business and the're not too worried about the price. The fares to DUB are, on average about €50-€60 each way. They seem to be doing OK. FR passengers are those who would normally thake the train, drive, or get the bus.

Im putting my money on RE being on the ORK-DUB route for quite some time to come. Afterall the ATR is optimised for such short flights, the 737 gets nowhere near its most effecient crusing height, and must burn significantly larger quantities of fuel per passenger than the ATR. Also given the fact that FR are selling most seats at about €30-€50 rtn, I think this is a war FR might not be able to win.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
Brian.

[The Flying Cokeman]

RE72,
I really can't see why this DUB-ORK expansion is a personal vendetta against Arann? Arann is just a small operator which has never been a threat to FR and never will be. To my knowledge there have never been any conflicts between those 2 companies. Yes FR wanted to get the DUB-KIR pso route last year but did not get it. Again that was not really to piss off RE but more targeted at the government.
On the DUB-ORK route, yes RE might be a victim but the main target for MOL is more the Irish train system if I am not mistaken?!
When FR started on the route RE reduced the frequency straight away but their planes were and still are completely full, and they started with more daily flights again.
Time will tell who the winners and loosers will be :confused:


Brian D, I agree with you :cool:

[Charlie Roy]

I tend to agree with RE72 and brian_dromey that Ryanair do want a monopoly on the ORK - DUB route, but that I can see Aer Arann surviving as they are the only players who give flexibility and convenience to business passengers.

[edmunster]

MOL is determined to get RE off the route.He succeeded with EZY and RE are next as far as he is concerned.No new routes are being looked at for now at least.

[EI-BUD]

Its looks clear that FR are trying hard to oust RE. But I am not as sure that RE are doing quite as well as they are saying. Yes they are a good option for the business traveller, but they also have had to do a fair amount of discounting on the tickets too.

Aer Arann have stated that FR are losing money on ORKDUB, or I think they used the term loss leader. MOL is bound to be responding to that comment, he usually does rise to the competition.

I can never see FR giving up the fight on a route where there is a big volume of passenger numbers. FR wanted DUBKIR on the last occasion that the PSOs were put up for tender, the result was that RE had to accept a much reduced Grant to secure continuation on the route. The next time PSO come up for renewal I can see FR using the stats from DUBORK in order to put a good case forward for entry to DUBKIR...? What does anyone else think???

[Tom the Tenor]

Well, with RE in line to take delivery of some new ATR-72 aircraft shortly they might want to take the fight right back to FR, if that is what MO'L is doing with them, by putting on an ATR-72 on Cork - Luton on two or three times a day. How could RE lose and with some free fresh coffee and De Paper to read during the flight it would surely be a hit with Cork folk and it might have the further attraction of getting at FR's yield on ORK-London?

Are there incentives available now again for Cork - East Midlands? I do not know but if there were how about RE jumping in quickly and seizing the incentive initiative from FR if EMA was in their grand plan? Aer Arann might also want to consider a mid-day flight from Cork to Derry? The ATR-42 would be almost perfectly suited for such a new route trial. If Galway is working ex ORK then LDY should at least be the same if not better? Hard to see MO'L getting worked up enough to send a 140 seat restricted 737-800 down to Cork from Derry any time in the future! Even Cork-Rotterdam on the ATR should be okay for RE with the new aeroplanes? Remember that the City Flyer ATR did Cork-LGW-Rotterdam in times past with the same equipment.

As for Kerry allow history to repeat itself and take an RE ATR to Luton again just like FR did with their own ATR-42s. Hard to see FR replying with another flight from LON to Kerry and once again it would eat away at the FR yield.

If MO'L is not too bothered with Cork by jove he has had to spend a lot of cash on first making sure he got rid of easyJet from Cork and Ireland and as it seems from here he is now up for spending a lot of money once again on trying to squeeze Aer Arann on Cork-Dublin. it looks like to me that he is or someone else in Ryanair is indeed quite bothered by little ol' Cork Airport, the airport with just the wan airbridge, the short runway, the low cloud, the high airfield elevation and the no CATIII ILS!!?? I think MO'L or someone else there in the FR HQ is as bothered by Cork Airport as some of us on here are, don't you think?

It is understandable though as Cork Airport can do that to you! However, some of my medical friends tell me there are tablets available that can help with the problem! :O

[The Flying Cokeman]

EI-BUD,

I haven't been in RE for quite a while but having talked with some who's still there the RE loads are still very good, hence increased frequency on the route. You are probably right that MOL donesn't give up easily but the 738 is not the optimum plane on that route, the ATR is!
Even with very low ticket prizes you only need about 15-20 pax to break even in the ATR, it takes a lot more for a 737. With the ticket prizes FR are selling that Boeing has to be quite full to break even.
The time difference between the two aircrafts on that route is only 5-10 minutes. The Boeing will burn about 3ish tons of fuel where the ATR will only burn around 500-600 kg on that route.
Don't forget the competetion from the railway link too.
So as Tom the Tenor says with free coffee and a newspaper I think the frequent traveller takes RE any time.

For the DUB-KIR route I seriously doubt the government will ever give give FR a pso route, not in our lifetime :uhoh:

[Charlie Roy]

I think MO'L or someone else there in the FR HQ is as bothered by Cork Airport as some of us on here are, don't you think?

FR are surely bothered by ORK! And in fact they must be equally bothered Shannon: the "low yield, low catchment airport".

Strategy:
Strive for an FR/EI duopoly in Cork
Force charges down
Move aircraft from Shannon to Cork (the "high yield, high catchment airport")

[RE72]

There is no way in the world Bertie would give a pso route to FR ahead of RE. RE is now Irelands well established Regional Carrier. Derry - Cork might work. Does anyone know what the load factor is like on the Cork - Belfast route ?

It's a very well established route, and nearly always sees loads above 65% , on the 2 depatures, each way, each day

[ryan2000]

Of course Ryanair's weather record is far better than Aer Arann on Dublin Cork. In almost 14 months not once has a FR domestic flight been diverted to SNN or KIR although they did on a handful of occassions return to Dublin.
Ryanair are CAT2 compliant and more importantly avail of this facility when the Cork RVR goes below CAT1 minima.
Cork Derry could work for Aer Arann but the amount of diversions and cancellations on Galway Cork particularly on Sunday's is on the high side.
Cork Luton sounds OK but at the end of the day it's in the London catchment area and that means competing with Ryanair and Aerlingus.

[en2r]

Cork Luton sounds OK but at the end of the day it's in the London catchment area and that means competing with Ryanair and Aerlingus.
Cork-London City would probably work better. The short runway would mean Ryanair could never compete. It would also probably be popular with business travellers who wouldn't mind paying a few euro extra for using the service if it brought them to LCY. Does anyone know how Jetmagic did on the route?

[RE72]

I believe one of the reasons for the failure of JetMagic, was the High cost of getting the ERJ135 certified to fly into LCY, The ATR72 is already approved to fly to LCY, so starting up costs would be kept to a minimum, just getting a handful of pilots certified for the steep approaches.

I'd say a ORK - MANSTON or SOUTHEND route would do particularly well, its near LON, just not a LON airport which would mean its not a direct competitior to FR/EI

[MarkD]

Now that Ryanair are deciding to use EU law to sue France over labour law, the DofT would have to be very careful about denying FR a PSO if they were the lowest bidder or MOL could start using his new found love of EU law to get the Commission invalidate the PSOs for tender irregularities.

[CCR]

I think if Aer Arann are to add more destinations from Cork, some routes to consider would be

Derry
Glasgow
London City
Brussels

[Tom the Tenor]

Sunday night was another one of those sad occasions at Cork Airport. The final CSA Czeck Airlines flight from Prague arrived in the shape of Airbus A320, OK-LEG with no less than 140 plus passengers. Typical Pox of Cork luck that in that the final flight arrived with such a heavy load! Later on this Monday morning Cork will bid adieu to our friend, OK677, for the final time ending what has been a wonderful era for Cork and Munster people being able to visit one of the great cultural centres of Europe. Without in any way wanting to undermine the significance of the long established EI services to CDG and AMS it must be said that CSA brought Europe to Cork with the arrival of so many new central and eastern European people into the local Munster region for work and pleasure and in return our own people travelling to Prague and to many other exciting connecting destinations throughout the entire CSA network. CSA's contribution to the Europeanising of Cork must be acknowledged and in historical terms the presence of CSA at Cork Airport made the airport for the first time a real player in European airports.

Yes, of course, Aer Lingus have now taken up flights to Prague and, sure, I hope they do well on the route and at 3/4 services a week it is well placed to do well, it is just that it is a great sadness to see the end of CSA Czeck Airlines at Cork Airport. CSA brought Europe to Cork Airport in a way that others like Wizz Air and Central Wings have since followed in her path.

Adieu, CSA Czeck Airlines. You were great! Thank you. :)

[EI-BUD]

I enjoyed reading your comments, but if it was up to me I wouldnt even bother looking at a ORKLTN route. They would have to go to low on price to get any level of satisfactory business as the London market is well served with low prices. I agree the hot drink and paper are a nice extra but its such a short trip i think pax would still choose STN or LHR.

Besides given the current carry on on the DUBORK route, I think FR would join RE on the LTN route if it opened. Any airline who tries to get onto a route to better Ryanair is foolish.

Someone remarked that a Rotterdam link for Aer Arann would be great , I agree it could do well but I remember reading that the airport at Rotterdam will close next year , can anyone confirm this ? if it is to close there would be little point promoting a route for it only so survive such a short time.

A few suggestions were made that RE should do ORKLCY, the Jetmagic service had interestingly the following stats:
Sep 2003 592 pax on route(fiirst month)
Oct 2003 2021 pax on route
Nov 2003 1898 pax on route
Dec 2003 1981 pax on route
Jan 2004 1662 pax( last month of service)

It is fair to say that the route was hardly flying but it ended. Sadly the end of Jetmagic, I never did get to use them, but assuming 2000 pax per month was achievable that would be on a business schedule mon to fri, (assuming 20 working days in the months average ie mon to fri). that would be 50 passengers a day each way. I know better could be achieved by Aer Arann but I am not sure it would be that well received. Many routes have come and gone from LCY eg BHD etc, costs are high there but I realise good yield possible, but for the business man EI have good offering on LHR route in terms of price and frequency etc. I would probably say not the greatest option. LDY, NCL(jet2 wouldnt need much persuasion to pull the route), RE could make a go of a daily rotation and make it unsustainable for JET2. The Aer Arann brand would be more recognised in ORK than LS??

[840]

Rotterdam is certainly an airport facing many difficulties. Noise pollution regulations have put a brake on further expansion of the airport. The opening of the HSL rail line from Amsterdam to Brussels will mean that Rotterdam is only 20 minutes by train from Schiphol.

However, yours is the first suggestion I've heard that it's going to close in recent years. There was a government plan to close it in the 1970s to use the land for housing, but my understanding was that this was formally scrapped about 5 years ago.

However, I can't really see a Cork-Rotterdam link working. Aer Arann doesn't really have enough brand recognition in The Netherlands to get passengers from Rotterdam to Cork. While my experience is that Rotterdam has better nightlife, restaurants and shopping than Amsterdam, it doesn't have a knock out attraction to draw tourists in (while Amsterdam has several - the museums, the Red Light District etc.). So, Rotterdam would probably have to be reliant on business traffic and when Aer Lingus have an almost double-daily A320 service into Schiphol, which will soon be only 20 minutes from Rotterdam, business passengers will choose to use this rather than a 3 or 4 times weekly ATR service from Aer Arann.

On the subject of Aer Arann at Cork, I remember hearing last Autumn that Cork was likely to see a service to Bordeaux this summer. The route doesn't seem to have materialised, but at the time, I had considered that Aer Arann were the most likely operators. Even now, looking at their route profile, it's one that they could probably successfully add. It's far enough from Nantes that it shouldn't impact yield there and is in a part of France that has traditionally been popular with Irish tourists, but is unserved by any airline.

Also, with Aer Arann, I'm a bit surprised we haven't seen a frequent flier programme from them in their fight against Ryanair on the Dublin route. For regular travellers who are spending their company's money on the flight, it could provide a useful incentive.

[brian_dromey]

assuming 2000 pax per month was achievable that would be on a business schedule mon to fri, that would be 50 passengers a day each way.

Considering that jetMagic were operating 35 seat ERJ 135's this service actually did quite well, if there were 2x daily services that was a load of 71.43% and 47.62% on a three times daily serivce. Considering that it was a brand new service, the realitively high fares charged, and the small marketing preence jetMagic had for this route, Im surprised that LCY has not been tried again. The most likely candidates for LCY would surely be Aer Arann, VLM or CityJet?

[parsi]

I think this would be an ideal route opportunity. There are plenty of outbound connections from London City to other parts of Europe and transit times are shorter. I occasionally fly to Luxemburg and whilst I currently come back via AMS there is a frequent service to LCY.

A nice amount of chaos was taking place in the airport onSaturday evening with one of the ticket machines swallowing every ticket. The solution offered by one of the drones was to use another machine. They were stumped when people asked "using what ticket?"... Driving into the long term (beyond the multi-storey) is a disgrace - it looks like a building site. They still don't have working intercoms on the barriers. These are fairly simple things...

[Eh Hello?]

Of course Ryanair's weather record is far better than Aer Arann on Dublin Cork. In almost 14 months not once has a FR domestic flight been diverted to SNN or KIR although they did on a handful of occassions return to Dublin.
Ryanair are CAT2 compliant and more importantly avail of this facility when the Cork RVR goes below CAT1 minima.
Be careful about generalisations . According to the Cork airport website, Ryanair diverted tonight's Stansted arrival at 2105, RE landed from Belfast at 2112, whilst Ryanair's 2200 arrival from Dublin entered the hold upon arrival at Cork, eventually landing 1 hour 25 minutes after departing Dublin, ten minutes after Arran's Edinburgh landed. It would appear being able to use shorter runways has its advantages when the wind is 23025G42KT. There have also been Ryanair cancellations (not a diversion but "flight cancelled due weather, not our fault, go away") during the fogs in December, when RE, as usual, laid on busses to get passengers to their destination.
Still, if Ryanair insist on below cost selling to attract passengers, they will continue to take share from RE. I am amazed Aer Rianta (or the Journos) haven't raised this against Ryanair's complaints on Cork but they must chuckle when they see Ryanair on the one hand bitching about the cost of using Cork airport whilst they are offering "all inclusive fares" of 9.99 Euros, including taxes and charges, from which they must pay Aer Rianta 12.50 Euros.

[The Flying Cokeman]

I don't see Arann starting up a route to London City as the ATR is not approved for landings into LCY :\

[Eh Hello?]

I don't see Arann starting up a route to London City as the ATR is not approved for landings into LCY :\
The ATR42 is approved and has been used by a number of operators into there for years (Air Wales, BMI/Atlantic and Eurowings come to mind). The 72 is not. The problem with LCY is getting traffic onto the return legs - sure it would be great first thing in the morning out of Cork but RE would struggle as other carriers do to fill the return leg. I understand City charge and arm and two legs to land in anywhere near the peak also so they would need pretty high fares which, against the other carriers on the route, would be a challenge to say the least. On top of this, Waterford to London takes 90 minutes so Cork - London City would probably be pushing two hours in an ATR.

[The Flying Cokeman]

eh Hello?

You are absolutely correct, I was having the 72 in mind being the future mainstay in RE.



Continued at: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3058646#post3058646