Pulkovo TU-154 Crash

[lesarcs1]

Bbc News Reporting Plane On Fire On Ground - Tupelov 154

[angels]

This was on Reuters, 160 pax, 10 crew. Belongs to Pulkovo Airlines. Edited to add it was flying to St. Petersburg, don't know departure airport.

[SaturnV]

From Novosti
Russia airliner with 170 people crashes in E. Ukraine - rescuers
[ 17:01 ] A Russian Tu-154 airliner with 160 passengers and ten crew onboard crashed over eastern Ukraine near the Russian border, emergency services said Tuesday. The plane was en route from the resort of Anapa on the Black Sea in southern Russia to St. Petersburg. "On Tuesday, at 15.39 [local time - 12:39 GMT], a Tu-154 airliner of the [St. Petersburg-based] Pulkovo Airlines ... sent a SOS signal and disappeared from radars," the source said. "Preliminary data suggests that the plane crashed 45 kilometers (30 miles) north of Donetsk."

[ALLDAYDELI]

PLK612 is KRR-LED so ex Krasnador

[555SUB]

from reuters

"The aircraft issued an SOS at 15.37 (Moscow time -- 1137 GMT). At 15.39, it disappeared from radar screens," a spokeswoman for Russia's Emergencies Ministry said by telephone.
Igor Krol, a spokeman for the Ukrainian ministry told 5th Channel television that, according to preliminary information, a fire broke out in the plane at an altitude of 10,000 metres (33,000 feet).
The crew then decided to make an emergency landing.

[Nov71]

Russian airliner crashes in eastern Ukraine

KIEV (Reuters) - A Russian airliner with at least 154 people on board crashed in flames on Tuesday in eastern Ukraine after a failed emergency landing.

Russia's Emergencies Ministry said 30 bodies had been found. No survivors have yet been detected.

Ukraine's Emergencies Ministry said helicopters circling the site about 45 km (30 miles) outside the regional town of Donetsk saw the Soviet-designed Tu-154 in flames.

The Russian ministry said 160 passengers and 10 crew were aboard the aircraft belonging to Pulkovo Airlines. Ukrainian officials said the plane had 154 people on board.

Flight 612 took off from Russia's Black Sea resort of Anapa and was bound for Russia's second city of St Petersburg. Its route went across Ukrainian territory.

"The aircraft issued an SOS at 15:37 (Moscow time -- 12:37 p.m.British time). At 15.39, it disappeared from radar screens," a spokeswoman for Russia's Emergencies Ministry said by telephone.

Ihor Krol, a spokesman for the Ukrainian ministry, told 5th Channel television that a fire may have broken out in the plane at an altitude of 10,000 metres (33,000 feet).

The crew decided to make an emergency landing.

The Tu-154, dating from Soviet times, is the workhorse of most airlines operating in ex-Soviet states. The crash was the second involving a regional Russian airline this year.

In July, an Airbus A-310 belonging to Sibir airlines crashed and burst into flames after veering off the runway in Irkutsk, killing 122 people.

In May 113 people, including Russians, died when an Airbus A-320 belonging to Armenian airline Armavia crashed on its way from Yerevan to the Russian resort of Sochi.


Reuters

[jet_noseover]

Some pictures and info on the craft in the link below.
KIEV, Ukraine -
A Russian passenger jet carrying at least 170 people — including 45 children — crashed Tuesday in eastern Ukraine after sending a distress signal, killing all aboard, authorities said.
A Russian news agency said officials had ruled out terrorism, but the cause of the crash was still unclear, with various officials citing turbulence, lightning and a fire on board.The Pulkovo Airlines Tu-154 was en route from the Russian Black Sea resort of Anapa to St. Petersburg and disappeared from radar screens while flying over eastern Ukraine around 2:30 p.m., Russian and Ukrainian emergency officials said.The plane's tail section and other burning debris were found north of the city of Donetsk, about 400 miles east of Kiev, by residents about two hours after the distress signal was sent, said Mykhaylo Korsakov, spokesman for the Donetsk department of Emergency Situations Ministry.
Anatoly Simushin, deputy director of the St. Petersburg-based carrier that there were 170 people on board, including 45 children.
"Unfortunately, we believe that no one managed to survive," Russian Emergency Situations Ministry spokesman Irina Andriyanova said in televised comments.
A bad thunderstorm was raging in the area at the time of the crash, said a spokeswoman for the Ukrainian Emergency Situations Ministry in Donetsk, who identified herself only as Yelena. She said there was lightning and heavy winds.
Interfax quoted Ukrainian Emergency Situations Ministry spokesman Igor Krol as saying a fire broke out on the plane at 32,800 feet and that the crew decided to try to make an emergency landing. Interfax also quoted Russian aviation official Alexander Neradko as saying that the plane might have run into strong turbulence.
Andriyanova said she received information that "the plane most likely was hit by lightning."
"There was no damage on the ground. After it fell, it broke apart and burst into flames," Andriyanova said in televised comments.
Interfax cited witnesses as saying the plane was intact when it hit the ground. The RIA-Novosti news agency later quoted Andriyanova as saying "terrorism has been ruled out."
The plane disappeared from radar screens two minutes after the crew sent a distress signal, said Yulia Stadnikova, another Russian spokeswoman. Officials could not confirm Russian agency reports that said the plane's crew sent out four SOS messages before the crash.
Pulkovo Airlines is among Russia's largest carriers.
It was the third major plane crash in the region this year, and came less than two months after at least 124 people died when an Airbus A-310 of the Russian carrier S7 skidded off a runway and burst into flames on July 9 in the Siberian city of Irkutsk.
On May 3, an A-320 of the Armenian airline Armavia crashed into the Black Sea while trying to land in the Russian resort city of Sochi in rough weather, killing all 113 people aboard.
Russian-made Tu-154s are widely used by Russian airlines for many regional flights.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060822/ap_on_re_eu/russia_plane

[Kulverstukas]

A Russian passenger plane carrying 170 people has crashed in eastern Ukraine.
The Tupolev-154M was flying from the Russian Black Sea resort of Anapa to St Petersburg when it crashed not far from the city of Donetsk. The airliner was operated by Pulkovo Airlines, Russia’s Emergencies Ministry told RBC.

There were about 170 people on board, including 160 passengers, among them 45 children, and ten crew. All of them are thought to have died.

The crew sent out a distress signal at 15:37 Moscow time, and the airliner disappeared from radar screens two minutes later, at 15:39.

The wreckage has been found near the Novgorodskoye village about 45km (30 miles) north of Donetsk. The crash site has been cordoned off by the police. Thirty bodies have been removed from the wreckage. The search and rescue operation has been complicated by fire and bad weather.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has asked Prime Minister Mikhail Fradkov to form a government commission to investigate the cause of the crash, the presidential press office reported.

This is not the first air incident in Ukraine involving a Russian Tu-154 plane. In October 2001, a Tu-154 operated by the Sibir airline company was downed during Ukrainian military exercises. There were 78 people on board, and all of them died. The plane was flying from Tel Aviv to Russia’s Novosibirsk.

© RBC

[Avman]

Beats me why so many of you have to post what is essentially the same information albeit from different news agencies! I think we know the basics now. As for the cause, well that will be up to the experienced investigators to find.

[Clandestino]

My local TV ran the footage from the crash scene. It seems that airplane is mightily shredded but all of the wreckage is within relativelly small debris field and there is no prominent impact crater. Now, before anyone starts wild speculations, I'll just say that this is only indication of the state in which the doomed aircraft met the ground and it says nothing about the way the airplane got into this state.

[11Fan]

Here's a little more in-depth report coming out of Reuters….

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-08-22T174835Z_01_L22157417_RTRUKOC_0_US-UKRAINE-CRASH.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

[fireflybob]

I get more and more irritated by the way aircraft accidents are reported in the media, especially those that occur in the Eastern bloc.

The authorities in the Eastern bloc seem far too eager to give an immediate explanation as to what the cause of the accident was - comments such as "the aircraft was struck by lightning..." or the "cause of the accident was bad weather..." etc do little to improve public confidence or knowledge of flying. Is it part of the culture in the Eastern bloc that the appropriate Minister seems duty bound to give an immediate statement? How an earth can anyone know what the cause of any accident is before a proper investigation has been carried out?

Can anyone tell me if there has ever been a documented case of an airliner being downed as a DIRECT result of being struck by lightning?

[evansb]

Dec.8, 1963 near Baltimore MD Pan Am Boeing 707-121
struck by lightning, ignited fuel vapors from trailing edge vents. Static wicks made mandatory on transport category aircraft after that I beleive. Link:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19631208-0

Also, Aug. 11, 1957 near Issoudun Quebec, Maritime Central Airways DC-4 entered thunderstorm and crashes, witness on ground links thunder with subsequent explosion and crash. Probable cause,
lightning, not conclusive.

[Semper Amictus]

Agree with you completely about 'Eastern Bloc' haste to come up with some jabber about probable cause etc.
Unless it's a recently sunk large boat called Kursk, perhaps.
Different handbook applies then.

One statement earlier today was that after an in-flight emergency "the landing gear failed to deploy and the aircraft landed on its belly."

Quite so.

[sec 3]

Wonder if their WX radar was serviceable? Maritime Central Airways: Thats a company name I havn't heard for years. Later became Nordair,years later into Canadian.....then last but not least,the unthinkable....AC..AArrggghh

[MrNosy]

Was there actually any voice communication with the aircraft after the emergency began? If not, how can they say that the aircraft was 'struck by lightning' and that there was a 'fire on board' if there was no report by the crew, so soon after the crash apart from just making it up. I would suggest that apart from perhaps the report of local thunderstorm activity and that the aircraft appears to have come down in a more or less flat attitude (am I interpretting the photos correctly?) there is nothing much that can be said about the circumstances of this accident as yet.

[Sky Wave]

MrNosy

Some of the reports mentioned them issuing an SOS. So I guess they could have given a couple of details.

SW

[Cyrano]

Returning to the actual subject of the thread...
Here's a Russian news story (http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?id=699639) (English translation a little less than fluent, but comprehensible) claiming that three Maydays were transmitted. Not clear yet how much information was transmitted along with them.

[Evening Star]

The authorities in the Eastern bloc seem far too eager to give an immediate explanation as to what the cause of the accident was

Partially true. Notice that Russian media has a very 'flexible' approach to how they handle news, something that becomes even easier to mangle in the translation. However, as one of the duplicate reportings of the accident moderated to reasonable reporting, I posted here my translation of an ITAR-TASS report. It quoted a senior Russian government official from the Emergency Situations Ministry who was very cautious in only reporting what was known (amounting to time of first distress signal, time of loss, souls on board and location). If a (provincial?) official wishes to speculate I would say it should be treated with the same caution as a UK police chief pre-empting the AAIB.

Today's edition of the Moscow Times has a photo claimed to be the flight taking off from Anapa. Very sobering if true.

With regard to lightning, if it helps the analysis here the sferics data indicates a high degree of electrical activity in the region at the time of the accident.

[discountinvestigator]

How an earth can anyone know what the cause of any accident is before a proper investigation has been carried out?

Reminds me of a recent investigation briefing:
Investigator-In-Charge (he who signs the final report) "Good morning lady and gentlemen, I wish you good speed in finding the facts of the accident and in your analysis. This accident had nothing to do with the State of xxxx"

Strange, as my work on the investigation showed it had quite a lot to do with the State of xxxx and their complete lack of oversight of what was going on. Unlicensed personnel, inappropriate procedures, no safety management systems, no CAA approval process blah blah blah. Strange, he also missed all of that out in the part of the report written by the State of xxxx. :ugh:

[PaperTiger]

Can anyone tell me if there has ever been a documented case of an airliner being downed as a DIRECT result of being struck by lightning?Here's the list from ASN: http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Event=WXL
Be quick before this post gets deleted too !

[Belgique]

It would seem that the Pulkovo TU-154 was trying to outclimb the thunderstorm. (see 9000m to 10,500m mention in article above). It had also reportedly requested a 20km deviation from track for weather avoidance. It's possible that the last Mayday call was sent as it was spinning down through 10,000ft. It would seem that the claim about a forced landing being intended is merely an assumption by somebody seeking to explain away their rapid loss of height.

Icin/turb induced loss of an engine whilst AoA challenged in coffin corner would be a likely explanation for what happened. Four Mayday calls would probably be the natural outcome of the crew's inability to achieve any spin recovery on the way down from 36,000ft. Attempted outclimbing of heavy weather whilst already near your altitude capability is never a sound course of action.

I very much doubt that it would be possible for many (or any) T-tailed a/c to recover from a spin because of the horizontal stabilizer being blanked atop the fin by wing-wash. The rudder would also be effectively blanked. A tail-mounted drag chute would be the only recovery aid.

It's also quite possible that severe icing may have played a part in any stall/spin entry scenario - much as it has in numerous turboprop icing accidents in less intense weather at lower altitudes.

TU-154 has a history of spin accidents.

[the_hawk]

The ground eyewitness report of the plane tumbling down like a leaf could be (relatively) correct then (this time ;)).

[hot_pitot]

Today's Newspaper qotes reports of the plane beeing monitored at 11,700 meters (app. 38,400 ft) shortly before the first mayday calls. Two minutes later the plane was at 3000 meters (9,800 ft). This was a rough ride in my opinion...
Condolences to the families.

[RatherBeFlying]

Besides icing and turbulence as possible causes of power loss, I would add airflow in the stall/spin regime.

We saw that in the Challenger accident in St. Louis where the a/c was stalled at altitude.

[TheShadow]

Besides icing and turbulence as possible causes of power loss, I would add airflow in the stall/spin regime
RatherbeFlying
I think that was implied fairly clearly in what Belgique said above:
<<"Icin/turb induced loss of an engine whilst AoA challenged in coffin corner would be a likely explanation for what happened.">>
.
from facts at: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060823/53018402.html
.
"the crew had sent four mayday signals before contact was lost, three at 38,600 feet (11,700 meters) and one two minutes later at 10,000 ft (3,000 meters)" Obviously they cross-referenced the 4th mayday call's time to a simultaneous transponder mode Charlie (altitude) return to determine that last height.
The only way they'd get down that fast (14,550 ft/min) is if they were spinning. The 38,600ft is a dead giveaway that they WERE trying to outclimb the storm-clouds. Looking a bit "open and shut" from these facts alone. However the recorders are reportedly in good condition...... so the facts should emerge eventually.

[jondc9]

belgique


I think your view may be quite correct. Indeed, in another thread about flying into thunderstorms we were discussing some of the DON'Ts...trying to TOP a thunderstorm by less than 10,000 feet might be considered a don't.

sadly, the aviation world knows how to handle bad weather...AVOID IT. Too bad the pressure on pilots all over the world still makes them give it the good old college try.

Having flown a T tail plane for many years, I would just add that ANY plane trying to outclimb a storm and getting into the odd world of the coffin corner might also tumble out of control.

I recall a DC8 (airborne express?)that was practicing stalls that never recovered(granted planes like the dc8 used aerodynamically assisted elevators, but let's not get started on that just yet).

all the best belgique, I think your guess will be the right one.

jon

[BOAC]

Anyone know the max certified altitude for the 154?

[the_hawk]

wikipedia states Service ceiling: 12,100 m (39,700 ft) for the 154M

Service ceiling at 85,000 kg (187,390 lb) AUW
12,100 m (39,700 ft)
also @ http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/vvs/tu154-01.htm

[Grunf]

Hello.
Quite right Belgique.
By the way anti-spin tail chutes are, to my knowledge, used mostly on flight test articles for the stall test ( a very, very risky test). That is only way for a T-tail lane to recover during the test.
Cheers,

[22/04]

Do Russian T-tails have stick pushers or was this just a British thing?

[barit1]

...
I recall a DC8 (airborne express?)that was practicing stalls that never recovered(granted planes like the dc8 used aerodynamically assisted elevators, but let's not get started on that just yet).



Jon's looking for this one (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X07150&key=1).

[anybodyatall]

Agreed losing 1 donk in that situation would require the utmost of skill

[John Marsh]

No stick pushers it seems - http://www.airdisaster.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-68760.html

[Evening Star]

From The Moscow Times (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2006/08/25/001.html), main quotes here as only current articles available without subscription:

The pilot of the Pulkovo Airlines plane that slammed into the Ukrainian countryside, killing at least 170 on board, ignored a storm warning before taking off and subsequent warnings after the plane was in the air.

That revelation, which surfaced after air traffic controllers said they had notified commanding pilot Ivan Korogodin of the danger, is fueling speculation that bad weather -- and Korogodin's decision not to skirt it -- is the likeliest explanation for the crash.

Other theories, including a deadly lightning strike and terrorism, have been all but ruled out.

...

Korogodin, 49, had logged 11,900 flying hours, including 6,000 hours on Tu-154's and 2,300 hours as crew commander. He was considered a very experienced pilot, Pulkovo Airlines spokesman Vasily Naletenko said Wednesday.

Korogodin had been licensed to fly by the International Civil Aviation Organization. He had no previous record of accidents during his career with Pulkovo Airlines, which began in 1991, Naletenko said.

It is unclear why Korogodin flew toward the storm.

"It is always the pilot's decision whether to continue with the flight or to change course," said Carolyn Evans, head of flight safety at the British Airline Pilots' Association. "Pilots are instructed to make flight safety an absolute priority, and the pilots themselves are always in the best position to make that decision."

Oleg Panteleyev, editor of the aviation web site Aviaport.ru, agreed that pilots bore full responsibility for all weather-related decisions they made while in the air.

Evans added that "the only reason a pilot would fly into a storm is if he didn't know it was there." That seems unlikely in the case of flight 612, given that it was a daytime flight and Korogodin was told of the upcoming storm.

A veteran test pilot indicated that Korogodin and fellow crew members may have lacked the skills needed in an emergency situation.

Some Russian airlines, the pilot said, are so focused on cutting costs that they either hire pilots who lack emergency skills or do not set aside money for adequate training.

"As a result," he said, "the crew gets by when they fly the same routes in roughly the same conditions. But they are at a loss once something goes wrong during the flight."

The veteran pilot continued: "Sometimes, the pilots know they may be not able to pull it off with the skills they have, but still decide to fly out of fear that they would be asked why they didn't fly and their ignorance would be exposed."

Panteleyev speculated that Korogodin may have wanted to avoid paying taxes for landing and taking off twice. In the 1990s, legislation was adopted permitting airplanes to make emergency landings and pay only 25 percent of the standard landing tax. But that law has been abolished, giving airlines, and possibly pilots, an incentive to stay in the air.
"The number of planes making emergency landings has declined dramatically in recent years," Panteleyev said.

A Tu-154 pilot who flies for a major airline said Thursday that Russian pilots might be more inclined to take risks than their Western counterparts.

The pilot recalled that while he was in training, he and other pilots were shown an international air safety study revealing an informal link between a country's development and the risk that pilots from that country were willing to take. More developed countries, he said, have pilots who take fewer risks. "So the Europeans and Americans are less inclined to take risks than Russians and Chinese, for instance," he said.

Russian newspapers reported that the pilots might have lost consciousness due to g-force generated by the plane's downward tailspin; the plane is thought to have entered a tailspin at around an altitude of 12,000 meters. There was also speculation that the pilots may have been struck on the head in the midst of the turbulence.

In the post-Soviet era, the prestige and salaries of pilots have plummeted. Graduates of flight schools usually have no more than 50 flying hours under their belts when they leave, yet routinely get hired as assistant pilots by commercial airlines.

Only Aeroflot has its own flight school, which offers extra training for its pilots.

Number of seemingly important issues here relating to experience, training and cost cutting that I am not qualified to comment. However, would take this report with caution as Russian media has a long tradition of repeating what the government wants people to hear.

[Sensible Garage]

Latest data from the MAK (Interstate Aviation Committee) reports that the aircraft climbed to 12,400 m. Maximum allowed weight at 12,100 m is 85 t. Take-off weight must have been around 93.5 t, given the distance from Anapa to St. Pete and 160 passengers. This would mean a weight of about 88at at the time of the crash.
The thunderstorm was reported as having been a heavy one, reaching up to 12-13 km.
It looks the aircraft stalled and entered a flat spin when it encountered turbulence at low speed as it was too high up for its weight.

[rhovsquared]

I get more and more irritated by the way aircraft accidents are reported in the media, especially those that occur in the Eastern bloc.
The authorities in the Eastern bloc seem far too eager to give an immediate explanation as to what the cause of the accident was - comments such as "the aircraft was struck by lightning..." or the "cause of the accident was bad weather..." etc do little to improve public confidence or knowledge of flying. Is it part of the culture in the Eastern bloc that the appropriate Minister seems duty bound to give an immediate statement? How an earth can anyone know what the cause of any accident is before a proper investigation has been carried out?
Can anyone tell me if there has ever been a documented case of an airliner being downed as a DIRECT result of being struck by lightning?

I also agree, there was a thread in Tech Log about lightning strikes and I alluded to the same thing :confused: :confused: :confused:

But you know they [on TV] KNOW MUCH MORE than those stupid, Slow, Deceitful aviation EXPERTS !!! :E

I wonder what Paris Hilton thinks about this? [HOT]:ugh:

I hate most media's reporting on subjects that have any technical difficulties.


To the Victims, God be with you

rhov :)

[Ignition Override]

Just some questions here about aviation pressures around the world, and some points about certain segments of the so-called "advanced" aviation indu$try in the US.

First of all, operational pressures on Captains can vary within one country, and they depend to a large extent upon corporate attitudes towards safety, which can give Captains strong incentives to avoid either delaying a flight, or "writing up" an intermittent or failed component in the aircraft logbook. Weather radar not doing so good? A hydraulic pump only operates in a (thermal) bypass condition-when the FO holds the switch down? A DC-8 has no hydraulic pressure indicated for the hor. stabilizer? The owner (who flew some of his cargo jets solo- both during and after a ramp check...what type of 'alleged' payoff?) does not believe you until all three flightcrewmembers + the mechanic demonstrate the failure

The second or third-tier US cargo industry has many stories which might and do appear unbelieveable to those with more sheltered aviation backgrounds. Never mind some stories from the older days at Connie Kalitta and others. I know pilots who worked there. A Learjet engine failure at high altitude was ok, as long as you descended, re-started it but wrote up nothing about it in the aircraft (FAA document) logbook. In a different Pprune thread, certain situations were described.

Just flew with a lady FO (from Michigan) whose Captain on a 2-engine Falcon at a smaller carrier years ago was tempted to make a 1-engine takeoff! He was afraid to describe in the logbook, the inability to start an engine! She talked him out of the nutty idea. One guy had an engine fire in a heavy recip. (DC-@) aircraft and never declared anything with Tower. No F. Herberge here.

If such pressures still exist in the US with many smaller companies (this was long before today's extortionate fuel prices) :E , imagine in foreign lands, where jobs are very difficult to be found and a diversion costs your company many thousands of dollars-just in landing fees, excluding the other costs, such as higher fuel prices.

Years ago, a Hungarian Malev crew, somewhere in 'eastern' 'Europe' ;) , gave the fueler a load of free H. wine so that the guy would fuel up their Tupelov!
I flew a trip with the guy who was the navigator on that flight. How is it now with many different governments and companies, all over the planet?

[AN2 Driver]

Anyone know the max certified altitude for the 154?

I've been at 41'000 several times in an "M" some 15 years ago, I do recall this as the max altitude, however and naturally at pretty low gross weights so not practicable very often. If the weights given above are anything to go by, I reckon they would have been too heavy for that altitude. As I recall the 154 very stable in turbulence and have difficulties imagining one to get in a spin just from turbulence alone, I reckon the general idea of a coffin corner problem has quite some merits, parallels with the China 747SP at SFO long ago come to mind, with the distinct difference that the engine and control positions of the 154 would definitly not help recovery action. Depending aditionally at what CG they were at (even tough they should be always at around the same using their trim tank) the 154 is mostly flown pretty tail heavy.

And no, I don't think the 154M has a stick pusher, just a shaker and I believe even that one was optional. Have to dig out my books once I am home.

[rmac]

Just two weeks ago, Slovak Airlines 737 on holiday charter to Corfu suffered tailstrike on landing. Crew "elected" to return with full load to Slovakia without reporting damage. I've seen the damage myself on the aircraft parked at Stefanik-Bratislava, large scrapes and two fist sized holes right through the fuselage !!

Pressure ? maybe..

Lucky to get away with it ? definately ! but sources believe that some jail time is in the future of the crew.

[WHBM]

Other PPRuNers may be aware of my family connections with St Petersburg, and I had of course been following this one from the first, but it came as a shock this weekend to find that the FO (known in Russia as the "Second Pilot") was a longstanding friend of the family over there, and lived in the same apartment complex. Sometimes it's a smaller world than we think.

His family are a typical Total Aviation family, several being in the business. Our thoughts are with them. His daughter, who joined us for our New Year party last year, had recently started with Pulkovo as an FA. He was aged 57, older than the captain, and carrying on with the job due to the liquidation of the pension entitlements of himself and just about everyone else in Russia during the financial crises of the 1990s - the money having ended up in the pockets of the New Russian billionaires.

This is still the lead news story in St Petersburg, but there is little of the substance we are reading here about the incident.

I know Pulkovo well and have always had the impression they are a professional outfit. You can't say that about all Russian carriers nowadays but I would certainly say it about them.

[rhovsquared]

And no, I don't think the 154M has a stick pusher, just a shaker and I believe even that one was optional. Have to dig out my books once I am home.
:\ :\ :\ :\ :\ :\ :\
Stall warning optional:eek: :eek: :eek:
rhov:\:)

[Liffy 1M]

Alleged CVR transcript here:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3022368/

[TheSailor]

Hello,

The translation isn't very accurate

Me...and certainly others..will be pleased if you retranslate it more accurately........ :)

Regards. http://photobucket.com/albums/v509/Bebermaur/th_bye.gif

[AN2 Driver]

:\ :\ :\ :\ :\ :\ :\
Stall warning optional:eek: :eek: :eek:
rhov:\:)

Not the warning, the pusher. As far as I remember, there definitly was a shaker on the planes I was on, but I am not sure about the pusher.

[MercenaryAli]

and yet it makes me smile when I see all the happy holiday makers marching freely out to the Balkan Airlines TU154 every day at Manchester AND they pay for the priveledge. Makes one wonder eh? :ugh: