Licence Conversion to JAA [Archive]

pira

8th Oct 2005, 06:11

Hi Guys,
I've made a lot of researches and I still have some questions about JAA Conversion.
1)Is the UK written examination the same as any other country in EU or each country has its own test?
2)If I decide to convert my FAA ATPL into a JAA, is UK the easiest way or there are other countries that I should take a look?
3)In the UK, do I need to take my skills test in the same acft I'm flying now (B737) or can I just seat in a multi engine piston and go for it (in my ATP, I have B737 and Multi engine piston ratings)?
4)Based on the fact that I'm an airline pilot, fying around 70 hours a month and getting about 11 days off, how much time do you think I would need to complete my studies for each module (7 subjects)?
5)Any other information is also welcome, once I'm gonna start my studies soon.Any information about NAC in Florida?I've read some posts, but I'd like to know if there is anyone that studied at home without the Full Course requirement.
Kind Regards,
Pira

GusHoneybun

8th Oct 2005, 11:53

1) Not sure on this. I think it's the same exam as each member state has responsibility for a particular subject. At the moment, the UK 'owns' humand factors and air law (i believe).

2) The UK is no easier or harder than any other JAR state.

3) To get an ATPL issued on the back of an FAA one, you need to complete an type rating and LST (licence skills test) in the aircraft type you are current in and have over 500 hours multi crew time. In your case, that would be a B737, not a MEP.

4) Really depends on you. Some people manage to complete the distance learning in 8 months, whilst still holding down a full time job. If you can study about 20 hours a week you could have them cracked in about 8-9 months.

Radar35

23rd Oct 2005, 18:22

Can anyone shed light on transferring ICAO Commercial Pilots Licence issued in UAE to a JAA Licence? Are all the ground subjects required to be re-sat? What is required from a flying point of view?

Cheers all for your help.......(pls don't shoot me down if similar Q has been posted before I could not find anything relevant :uhoh: )

Radar35 :ok:

Farrell

23rd Oct 2005, 18:28

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133712&highlight=converting+ICAO+CPL

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175883&highlight=converting+ICAO+CPL

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157490&highlight=converting+ICAO+CPL

fullrich

4th Nov 2005, 20:35

Has anybody or does anyonre know if a FAA ME CPL/IR with an ME VFR restriction ie:no instrument rights on the ME rating can be converted to JAR and what the difference may be in terms of hours required for the conversion??

Thanks

menikos

18th Jan 2006, 10:30

Hello,

anyone could give me or give us good schools where to convert a FAA CPL to a JAA one.

Many thanks.

Cheers.

BritishGuy

5th Feb 2006, 02:29

Ok, I've finally managed to hit the 1500TT mark. I heard someone tell me that once I have 1500TT I don't have to go though an approved school in order to sit the 14 exams. Any truth in this? I have 1500TT (FAA) but haven't bothered to get the FAA ATP yet. I want to have a stab at the 14 JAR exams, but just want to see if I can do them of my own back as opposed to going though an approved course. I know I'll have someone tell me of the pros of going though the approved course (I passed 12 in a past life and them ran out of sittings), but as I have the notes and all I want to see if I can just do them myself.

Also, does anyone know how often the CAA do the exam sittings in Orlando, Florida? Is it monthly as well, or is it by appointment only? I'm not sure.

Fellow Aviator

5th Feb 2006, 08:34

This 1500h mark you are referring to gives an exemption from the approved course only if you have an ICAO ATPL and (from Bristol’s webpage):

* more than 3000 hours total time on aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
* more than 1500 hours pilot in command on aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
* type rated on an aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
* more than 500 hours total time on the aircraft above
* able to complete a flight test on the same aircraft

Since you have a FAA CPL a complete course must be done. If you meet the JAR ATPL requirements (500h mcc and so on..), an exemption could be possible. For ATPL requirements check out JAR-FCL 1 http://www.jaa.nl/publications/section1.html

Dotun

5th Feb 2006, 11:26

I think the one you are refering to is this. ATPL(A) holders who have a minimum of 1500 hours flying experience as PIC or Co-pilot on Multi-pilot aeroplanes (or single-pilot aeroplane operated by 2-pilots according to operational requirements). You will have to look at lasors.

In short, what they are saying is that, you need a type rating on your faa atp(not cpl), with 1500 hours on multi-pilot aeroplanes.

Regards
DMan

Flopsie

5th Feb 2006, 12:32

This is what UK Lasors states:
G1.5 JAR-FCL ATPL(A) CONVERSION OF A
NON-JAA PROFESSIONAL LICENCE
A professional pilot licence issued by a non-JAA State
may be converted to a JAR-FCL licence provided that
an arrangement exists between the JAA and the
non-JAA State. This arrangement shall be established
on the basis of reciprocity of licence acceptance and
shall ensure that an equivalent level of safety exists
between the training and testing requirements of the
JAA and non-JAA State. Until such arrangements exist,
the following requirements have been agreed by the
JAA and are now incorporated in JAR-FCL 1.016.
Non-JAA ATPL(A)
The holder of a valid (or non-expiring) ATPL(A) issued
in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State
may be issued with a JAR-FCL ATPL(A) providing the
experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.280 have been
met. Applicants' must:-
• hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 medical certificate;
• Undertake ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge
instruction as determined by the Head of Training
of an approved training provider, and pass ALL of
the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge
examinations at ATPL(A) level;
• Qualify for the issue of a UK Flight Radio
Telephony Operator’s Licence (FRTOL) -Section
B refers;
• Undertake a multi-pilot aeroplane type rating
course at an approved TRTO (see Appendix 1 to
JAR-FCL 1.220, Part B for a list of types);
• pass the ATPL(A) skill test in accordance with
Appendices 1 and 2 to JAR-FCL 1.240 and 1.295
with, or observed by, a CAA Flight Operations
Training Inspector.
G1.5 Note 1
ATPL(A) holders who have a minimum of 1500 hours
flying experience as PIC or Co-pilot on multi-pilot
aeroplanes (or single-pilot aeroplanes operated by
2-pilots according to operational requirements) and
hold a valid multi-pilot type rating for the aeroplane to
be used for the ATPL(A) skill test and have at least 500
hours experience as pilot on that type, will be exempted
from the requirements to complete an approved TRTO
course or undergo approved training prior to
undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations
and the skill test. Pilots with less than 500 hours
experience as pilot on the type to be used for the
ATPL(A) skill test will be exempted from the
requirements to undergo approved training prior to
undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations
but will still be required to complete an approved type
rating course. However, the course may be reduced to
take account of previous experience on the same type
upon recommendation by the TRTO to PLD.
G1.5 Note 2
Different terms apply to ATPL(A) holders with a
minimum of 3,000 hours flying experience as pilot of
public transport aircraft over 30,000kgs MTWA on
scheduled international or similar routes, including a
minimum of 1,500 hours as Pilot-in-Command
(Captain). Applicants who believe they qualify should
apply to PLD for a formal written assessment using
form SRG\1103 and enclosing the appropriate fee,
actual logbooks and non-UK licence (with validating
medical certificate if separate).
Applicants who qualify under these terms will be eligible
to complete reduced requirements for the issue of a
JAR-FCL ATPL(A). With regards to the theoretical
knowledge examinations requirement, a credit will be
given towards the JAR-FCL ATPL(A) examinations,
with the exception of Air Law and Human Performance
and Limitations examinations which will need to be
passed. An applicant who completes the reduced
requirements will be issued with a JAR-FCL ATPL(A)
however, as this licence does not fully comply with the
requirements of JAR-FCL, the holder is not entitled to
automatic recognition accorded to JAR-FCL. The
licence will therefore be issued with the following
statement:
Valid for United Kingdom registered aircraft. As this
licence does not fully comply with JAR-FCL the holder
must have permission from any other JAA Member
State prior to exercising the licence privileges in aircraft
registered in that State.
This endorsement may be removed by obtaining a pass
in all JAR-FCL ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge
examinations. (The 12 remaining JAR-FCL ATPL(A)
examinations will be classed as a new set and attempt
and will be subject to the pass standards as detailed in
Section J1.5).
The holder of a current and valid ATPL(A) who does not
meet the experience requirements for the grant of a
JAR-FCL ATPL(A) can still apply for a JAR-FCL
CPL(A)/IR. Details can be found in Section D1.5.

Nimbus5

6th Feb 2006, 15:13

I'm not sure why you think 1500 hours gives you a get out of jail free card. If you did have an FAA ATPL, all you could get out of is the CAA's 650 hour study time requirement. It is not possible to sit the exams without a registered training provider putting you up for them. In other words, you could enrol on a distance learning course and do whatever study you saw fit instead of slogging through every last frame of instruction and every progress test. The catch is that all of the schools wish to protect the grade point average of the people they put up for the exams, so they will still require you to take some school tests before they will sign you off as ready for the JAR exams. The CAA hold the schools accountable for their GPAs and the schools won't sacrifice this statistic by throwing your name in the hat willy nilly! It seems like a bit of a racket, but it's hard to argue it's not in the public interest.

In your case, since you don't have the FAA ATPL, you'll have to do the entire course either by distance learning or by sitting in a classroom for 6 months or so as no school can legally waive the 650 hour study requirement, 10% of which must be done in a classroom.

BritishGuy

8th Feb 2006, 05:11

Nimbus - you've got it... the 650 hour waver was what I was looking for. Now this is the thing.....I attempted the 14 exams about 4 years ago. Passed everything (but two - 71% met and 74% PoF) and my sittings ran out....now guess what, they took them all away. So I have actually studied the residential course with London Guildhall. Now, I have done the required studying using new note I got a hold of on my own, but just want to sit the exams. Do I still have to get London Guildhall to sign me off for them (I'm not based in Orlando) or should I ask Naples (just as a matter of logistics) to sign me of. Or will nobody sign me off until I've jumped though more hoops.... Long story short - I just want to give the exams another go.... HOW???

BillieBob

8th Feb 2006, 11:01

All the answers you require are in LASORS J1.5. The relevant bit would appear to be:A candidate who only completed ATPL, CPL and/or IR theoretical knowledge instruction at the discretion of an approved training provider i.e. conversion from a non-JAA qualification, will be required to complete further theoretical knowledge instruction at the discretion of an approved training provider.However, I am no expert in this area so you would be well advised to consult LASORS, the CAA and/or a suitable training provider to ensure you have the correct information.

thierry1a2

7th Mar 2006, 13:32

Hi Thread,
It’s been apparently a long time that you’ve posted your note. Now, my response is more like another question because I’m also interested by this subject.
I have an expired Canadian Commercial Multi IFR license because I haven't flown since I came back to Europe in December 1999. My licenses in Europe are not recognized. In the JAR, I was told that I would have had to re-take everything – even the flying hours (i.e. 45 hours for my Private, etc.) ... I'm not willing to do that! Now, there are some schools in America that would propose this kind of conversion and I’m looking for some additional information about people who did it. Maybe could you help me out finding this information?
Thanks in advance,
Thierry
[email protected]

Jimmy The Big Greek

7th Mar 2006, 13:42

Why don't you renew your canadian license? You just need a flight review with an instructor?

flz

12th Mar 2006, 18:10

Hi Everyone

I have a Canadian CPL IFR with 1200hrs & I am wishing to convert my licenses to Jar.
I live in the UK but am willing to go anywhere for training
Could anybody recommend A, a ground school course to complete my JAR exams preferably residential, & B a flt school I could convert my License.

Any offers would be greatly appreciated thankyou

Flz

sega

12th Mar 2006, 21:50

Does any one know if there exists a bank of questions or a guide for the theory exams for for the JAR (ex CAA) ATPL in the UK and where to obtain same. Perplexingly yours...
[This message has been edited by sandy727 (edited 18 September 2000).]
www.aviationexam.com
http://www.aerosolutions.be/abacus/index.php
aviationexam is the best one I think and also the cheapest.
enjoy

mcgoo

12th Mar 2006, 21:54

sega not sure if you spotted it but your replying to a 6 year old post!

sega

13th Mar 2006, 06:17

sega not sure if you spotted it but your replying to a 6 year old post!
haha, thanks, I did not, all I saw was the guy above me posted a couple of hrs before me.
sega

learboys

13th Mar 2006, 09:34

Hi there, try www.bristol.gs (http://www.bristol.gs/). they have an average pass rate of over 98% and their questions are very good, highly recommend them.

BestAviation

14th Mar 2006, 06:01

The awakening of the dead post...

henriksch

18th Apr 2006, 21:18

Hi

Hope to get things sorted out.

I have a FAA CPL, ME-IR and want to convert to JAA

My JAA CPL and MEP is from the UK. I want to do my conversion course in Sweden, and then attach the JAA ME-IR from Sweden to my UK CPL.

Reason: Cheeper high quality training, and another huge factor......

Sweden dont have a 15 hour minimum for the conversion.... It is up to the FTO.

Problem is, that I have from different sources been told, that I still have to do 15 hours in Sweden, because I want to attach the license to a UK CPL.

Can this be right.

Thought that they had to approve a JAA license (which the rating from Sweden will be) from any full JAA state..Regardless of hours in the course... I mean, a JAA license is a JAA license.

FIRESYSOK

10th May 2006, 02:07

Do you think it possible the JAA will recognize the FAA ATPL as an equivalent license in the future? I'm about to make an investment of my time and money to convert and would like to know your opinions on the possibility that it may only be a paperwork exercise somewhere down the line.
I don't think it likely considering the differences and inequalites. Your opinions please...

itsbrokenagain

10th May 2006, 02:32

Hummm...nope, never , its not in the plan is the answer. For the obvous reasons it would simply flood the european market with FAA pilots, and kill the local training industry in Europe. As you pointed out, FAA and JAA pilots can fly the same Cessna or Boeing the same way, but how they get there is vastly different.

My advice is go for it, there will be no changes in the next 10 yrs at least.

Lightheart

10th May 2006, 03:30

...make sure you know what's involved.

If you are converting a non-JAA ATPL the number of ground and flight tests you need to complete depends on your experience.

High Time Pilots
If you are very experienced you should you should apply to the CAA for a formal assessment using Form SRG 1103. Read Lasors on more about this.

The qualifying criteria are

more than 3000 hours total time on aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
more than 1500 hours pilot in command on aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
type rated on an aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
more than 500 hours total time on the aircraft above
able to complete a flight test on the same aircraft

When you have completed the assessment form you need to send it or take it to the CAA with your original licences and log books. The CAA will tell you that you need to pass two written exams, Human Performance and Aviation Law, and pass a flight test on the aircraft you are rated on. The flight test is referred to as a skills test, it is part handling check and part IR renewal check.

Experienced In Two Pilot Operations
If you don't meet the criteria above but have

more than 1500 hours on two-pilot aircraft,
are type rated already and
have more than 500 hours on type
you need to pass all 14 ground exams but don't need to attend a formal groundschool course. You will need to pass a skills test on the aircraft you are rated on.

amirfl

17th May 2006, 16:45

2close

18th May 2006, 17:22

Regrettably not.

There is a mandatory residential phase to the ATPL ground school that has to be attended at, and signed off by, an approved schoool before you can take the ATPL exams.

But you do not have to buy the books, etc. from one of the approved schools, you merely have to attend their residential phase. Your pre-residential phase study material would be down to you.

The best thing to do would be to contact a number of them directly and ask them how much they would charge you for this.

HTH

george737

18th May 2006, 19:38

What is the procedure to convert my FAA CPL ME SE IR to a JAA CPL with frozen ATPL?

Can I take the theory exams without signing to a course (by self study without an online course)?
What is the cheapest route to take?

Thank youDear Amirfl according to the JAR-FCL1 regulations you must have a total flight experience of a minimum of 250 hours from a non JAA member state(FAA in our example).The next step is to sign up at an FTO JAA(Pilot Academy)for the CPL(A) theory or the ATPL(A) theory.Most of the conversion pilots are accepted as distance learning students(More convinient for you)You must sign up for a ground school and PAY for it unfortunately or else you wont be acceptede for the examination.If you pass the 9 exam papers for cpl or the 14 papers for atpl,you move to the flying phase of the conversion.You will need approx. 5 hours for the cpl and for the (unfortunately more costly)IR around 15 hours.Its up to you how many hours you are going to log.It might be 20 or 15 it depents on you and your FTO(Those instructor guys might say that you are ready to go with even 3hours cpl and 10 hours IR.Good luck.

amirfl

19th May 2006, 00:53

Thank you for the info. I curently have 1450 hours of total time (although I'm far from the other requiremnts for a full ATPL such as the cross country time).

henriksch

19th May 2006, 01:21

Hi

I spoke to a guy at the CAA, and he said that I needed a minimum of 15 hours to meet their conversion req

2close

19th May 2006, 05:21

Henriksch,

I think you may be referring to the minimum flight training requirements for conversion of an ICAO IR to a JAA IR.

There are no minimums for conversion of an ICAO CPL, only sufficient training to satisfy the head of training at your chosen training establishment that you are ready to take the 170A "mock flight test". Theoretically, you could turn up on day 1, have check out and satisfy the CFI that you could take the 170A the following day, complete the 170A successfully on day 2 then take your CPL flight test as soon as an examiner becomes available.

As for ground school I'm pretty sure what I stated above is correct but I may of course be mistaken and will check with the powers that be today, if I get a chance.

The other course of action would be to read LASORS. This is the definitive guide for training requirements and outlines the minimum training requirements for conversion of an ICAO ATPL. The link below will take you to the freebie on-line version.

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=65&applicationid=11&mode=detail&id=1591

HTH
2close

Maverick101

20th Jun 2006, 20:32

Hey everybody!

I currently live in Canada, and I'm currently in a college pilot program. I've obtained my Canadian PPL and I'm currently working on my CPL (written exam in 3 days actually :bored:) By the time I'm done in December, I will have my Canadian CPL, and Multi-IFR ratings with approximately 203 hrs under my belt.

I have dual citizenship between Canada and the UK as my mom is from Britain. I'm thinking of moving to England to take the JARS so I can get my UK licensing. I don't know much about the hour requirements or where I would go to take the ground school. I eventually want to get my ATPL. It would be great if somebody could shed some light on the situation.

Thanks

Maverick101

21st Jun 2006, 01:22

yeah, I knew about Moncton Flight College. It's just that I have family in England and thought that it would be cheaper for me to stay with family, then pay for living expenses in a new city. That's why I'm inquiring about where to get this done in England. I'm sure that the cost of living expenses outweighs the cost of getting the licensing done overseas.

Additionally, it doesn't answer my question of what to do. Am I required to take the JAA-CPL exams? Or can I jump straight into a frozen JAA-ATPL?

abumaria

21st Jun 2006, 12:16

Can anyone advice me please where can I do my conversion of CPL from FAA to CAA/JAR. Hopefully there is for me job opportunity if I do it.
Where can I do my frozen ALTP? Any cheaper flying clubs?
Need urgent reply,
Omer Abdulqader

lowspeedaluminium

23rd Jun 2006, 03:01

conduct a search for UK conversions - lots of info.

ForzaLazio

24th Jun 2006, 14:43

hey guys,

one more question about the topic. I have my FAA commercial license with multi and instrument raing. currently i have 1700 hours, about 600 hours multi crew in a beech 1900, working for a regional here in the states. soon i will be getting a B737 type rating and the faa atp. few questions:
1. what are the chances of getting a job in europe?
2. what do i have to do to convert in the jaa system?
3. having the faa atp and a type rating, does it give you a shortcut to get the jaa conversion?

thanks a lot in advance to whoever is gonna reply.

jeyjey

1st Jul 2006, 09:09

Hello everybody,

is there someone who knows a way or country that convert or validate a FAA ATP into a national european licence and then getting a JAR licence? I have had an austrian CPL but unfortunatelly he isn't valid since 2001, now Austro Control wants me to do all written and flighttests for the CPL again.

thank all of you for any kind of information

abumaria

5th Jul 2006, 10:25

Please can anyone advise me where I can do Conversion of Licence from FAA to CAA/JAR

Touch'n'oops

5th Jul 2006, 10:40

Speak to Flight Training Europe. They did a conversion of license for a Canadian while I was there.

Touch'n'oops

5th Jul 2006, 11:24

Check out Areodynamics-malaga

They advertise the conversion on PPrNe!!!!

Good luck buddy!

captain_jeeves

5th Jul 2006, 11:45

Please can anyone advise me where I can do Conversion of Licence from FAA to CAA/JAR

The answer is, it depends.

If you can tell me what type of license you have, and your flight experience, I can give you the correct answers and point you in the correct decision.

However, for example…

You have a Private in the Canada or the USA, and want a Frozen ATPL under JAR…

700 hours of ground school, 14 exams, multi-crew course, type-rating and skills test

Or, if you hold an ATPL from another country - with more than 3000 hours PIC in an aircraft with a take-off weight greater than 50,000 kgs - then you are exempt from everything except 2 exams.

Experience between these two, have various different requirements.

Tell me your license type, and your experience and I will tell you what you’ll need, who you can get it from, and how long it will take.

Cheers

vigilant_spacey

5th Jul 2006, 11:57

I'll be doind the same next year. Try airways

http://www.airwaysflighttraining.co.uk/

Very reasonable rates!

abumaria

5th Jul 2006, 14:29

abumaria

5th Jul 2006, 14:33

I am holding FAA Commercial Polot Licence, I have only 255 hours, I know its too low. Now I am really wanting to do it.

captain_jeeves

6th Jul 2006, 03:57

Thanks to all who has replied to me for the training of conversion of FAA to CAA/JAR. Is there anyone who has informations in South Africa training schools, as here its costly. I need to do it as soon as possible the conversion.

You can find a lot of information here http://www.flight-schools.net/

If that doesn't work, PM me and I'll have a co-worker check as he lives in Joburg, South Africa.

theschultx

7th Jul 2006, 10:30

On a similar note, Does anyone know what the rules are for getting australian hours recognised in finland? I only have 20 hrs but i dont want to to see my couple of grand poured out the window by not being able to use them towards my ppl here in finland?

GgW

17th Jul 2006, 10:37

If you are the holder of FAA or CAA CPL & IR and convert it to a JAA CPL & IR, do you still hold your previous license aswell, or does the ''new'' license cancels the previous one.

Thanks
GgW

Edited to correct spelling

HillerBee

18th Jul 2006, 14:32

You don't convert a FAA license to a JAA one. You take the ground exams and do some CPL flight training, take the flight test and get a JAA license. The only thing taken in consideration are you hours. So you will always have a FAA license since it's issued to you for live.

If you convert a CAA-> to JAA then you lose the CAA one.

wertyuioi

24th Jul 2006, 17:47

Hi guys,
I have few question about FAA-JAA conversion , you may help me.
I have CPL/ME/IR FAA and I want to get my ATPL-Frozen JAA in order to work in europe.
How can i convert my license without spending too much and where can i do that?
I heard about some school in Spain, but i wonder if i can make ground school for ATP here in texas while I'm woring as flight instructor, and once I will be ready I will go to spain and take the test and fly hours for conversation, whatever.
Thank u

Spiral

27th Jul 2006, 13:39

Need a little guidance. Have my PPL issued in UK still current and have recently got my IR and Commercial under FAA. Unfortunately I am having to return to UK and wonder what I will have to do to convert to CAA. I have 265 hours of flight logged. Any help would be appreciated.:confused:

volare_737

29th Jul 2006, 08:35

I am the holder of an ICAO ATPL and would like to convert to JAR Atpl. Looking for a training school in europe who got distance learning material available. Idealy I would like to writte the exams in Vienna. Anybody nows of any schools in Vienna ???? Can one writte the exams in vienna in English ???
Any input will be greatly appreciated !!!!!!

jeyjey

30th Jul 2006, 09:33

I'm trying the same way, the austrian way, but no chance this year. I have spoken to austrocontrol to convert my faa atp in a jaa one, but they have no jaa approved flight school offering the ground course. Now I try the UK-way, there is a ground school called bristol.gs, check it out.
http://www.bristol.gs/licence_atpl_conversions.php

B767PL

1st Aug 2006, 17:17

Hey guys.

I plan on in the future making a move to Europe, and hopefully flying there. I plan on finishing up my flight training here in the U.S and get some expierience here before making the move. Now I know to convert licenses from FAA to JAA theres a bunch of studying and 14 written exams to take. Now the question is, How much would it cost me to convert up to ATP from FAA to JAA?? Thanks for your help. :}

sunny77

3rd Aug 2006, 01:54

Scroggs et al go easy on me, I've searched the database and couldn't find and answer. :confused:
I hold Aussie ATPL aeroplane and CPL Helo with the ATPL theory completed. I am about to commence the process of conversion to JAR/JAA for both aeroplane and helicopter. I have skimmed through the LASORS yet I am still wondering if there are common subjects in the ATPL course that apply to both aeroplane and helicopter?
Worst case is that I have to do all 14 subjects for both, which would be too expensive for me.
I know in Australia there are common subjects.
Thanks for any help or suggestions!!:)

whiskey1

3rd Aug 2006, 04:54

15 exams to do 14 ATPL(A) ones plus Heli Principles of Flight.
Know a couple of guys who have done it this way.
Mail me if you need any help.

mcflyer83

3rd Aug 2006, 05:19

hey i am in the exact same situation... I called orlando flight training in the us who do part of the conversions... www.flyoft.com (http://www.flyoft.com) seemed pretty nice but it is pretty expensive it seems like. Expect 8 hrs of flight in the USA the writtens, but to get your IR you need he said about 15-20hrs on avg then u need to complete the mcc training. The kicker is i need a caa class 1 to start which means i have to goto Europe to do that. Not sure what to do if anyone has some suggestions that would be great...

3400 usd for the written
10500usd for the ir conversion to be completed in the UK
4000usd for the mcc... to be completed in the UK

Not sure if these prices are good or bad still researching it.

mcflyer83

jeyjey

3rd Aug 2006, 13:36

Hello everybody,

is there someone who has experience in conversion an FAA ATP into an JAA ATP in the Netherlands?

sunny77

5th Aug 2006, 21:41

Thanks guys. Helps alot.

mahmoodnz

10th Aug 2006, 07:29

hi everyone i am just wondering if Newzealand ATPL will be cross credited with JAR-FCL

cheers

123567

13th Aug 2006, 21:34

Has any one actually done the ATPL conversion using the expierence exemption?

My question is: I have over 6000 hours, with over 1500 on international jet ops - but our a/c is under 30,000KGs [24,000]. Do they ever make exceptions to the 30,000 rule, or am I wasting my time?

Alex Whittingham

14th Aug 2006, 07:26

They never make exeptions to this rule, I'm afraid. What is more its a UK only exemption and your JAA license obtained through this route need not be accepted by other JAA states at face value. Ireland probably would accept it, though, if you're thinking of Ryanair.

123567

15th Aug 2006, 02:12

Alex

Thanks, Not thinking of Ryanair. A UK operator has offered me a new job on a similar Jet to the one i fly now.

Seems a bit much to have to sit 14 exam papers just to carry on doing essentially what i'm currently doing just because the aircraft is registered in a different country.

And before you ask, yes i'm a UK citizen.

turbinejunkie

15th Aug 2006, 14:00

Hi,

I am interested in finding out about converting my ICAO Australian & New Zealand ATPL's to the UK / JAA equivalent. I have had a look at the LASORs and tried getting an answer from UK CAA but no joy so far.

I have also observed on the Bristol Groundschool website the following with respect to converting an ICAO ATPL to a UK / JAA equivalent:

ATPL Conversions

If you are converting a non-JAA ATPL the number of ground and flight tests you need to complete depends on your experience.
(A) High Time Pilots

If you are very experienced you should you should apply to the CAA for a formal assessment using Form SRG 1103.

The qualifying criteria are
more than 3000 hours total time on aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
more than 1500 hours pilot in command on aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
type rated on an aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
more than 500 hours total time on the aircraft above
able to complete a flight test on the same aircraft

When you have completed the assessment form you need to send it or take it to the CAA with your original licences and log books. The CAA will tell you that you need to pass two written exams, Human Performance and Aviation Law, and pass a flight test on the aircraft you are rated on. The flight test is referred to as a skills test, it is part handling check and part IR renewal check.

(B) Experienced In Two Pilot Operations

If you don't meet the criteria above but have more than 1500 hours on two-pilot aircraft, are type rated already and have more than 500 hours on type
you need to pass all 14 ground exams but don't need to attend a formal groundschool course. You will need to pass a skills test on the aircraft you are rated on.

and

(C) None of the Above

If you fall into neither category above for whatever reason but still hold an ATPL you must complete an approved course of ground training and get your application form signed by your training provider before you sit the full set of ATPL exams. The length of the course can be reduced at the discretion of the Head of Training.

You need to complete two separate flight tests:

A Skills Test
An Instrument Rating

The skills test is a handling check flown on a complex aircraft, defined as an aircraft with retractable gear and a variable pitch prop. There is no formal training requirement before the test but you should anticipate 5 to 10 hours to get used to the profile and the aircraft.

If you hold an ATPL you must, by definition, also hold an ICAO IR. This needs to be converted to a JAA IR. The training requirement to convert is to complete at least 15 hours before the test, up to ten can be completed in a flight simulator.

The aircraft I fly is a Swearingen (Fairchild) Metroliner. It was originally certificated as a single-pilot aircraft by the FAA, however our company Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) require the aircraft to be flown as genuine 2 crew operations. All the flying I have undertaken on the aircraft can be verified by our company as 2 crew ops and also with the Australian Regulator (the Civil Aviation Safety Authority - CASA) as this being the case.

Assuming I had 1500 + hours on type in 2 crew ops, would this experience on this aircraft (with appropriate documentation from CASA and my employer) satisfy the requirement described above from their website to convert the licence by only sitting the 14 theory exams (obviating the need to complete an approved ground training course and an Instrument rating)?

Would I have to fly a Metroliner for the skills test to qualify under this category or could another aircraft I am endorsed on suffice (e.g. Beech Baron or similar for economic reasons - as per your paragraph below which states the skills test can be done in a "complex aircraft"?).

Could the skills test combine an instrument rating assessment as well as ATPL flight test?

Could the skills test be undertaken in an approved flight simulator?

Would having the 1500 hours on the Metroliner in the 2 crew operations our company runs, would that satisfy the UK CAA with respect to the Instrument Rating and Skills Test also?

Does the UK CAA require a pilot to have flown a manufacturer certificated 2 crew aircraft to qualify (e.g. Dash 8, Saab 340, B737, etc)?

Would I qualify for the Multi-crew Coordination Course approval now also?
What evidence is required?

Would a letter from my Chief Pilot validating my 2 crew experience totals accompanied with a excerpt from our company operations manual stating that the operations were conducted 2 crew as Standard Operating Procedures suffice to exempt me from the requirement to complete a MCC?

I would appreciate any help as I am planning on converting my licence to the UK / JAA ATPL soon

kind regards,
Turbinejunkie
:ok:

arms2serve

17th Aug 2006, 23:00

Hello everyone!

Can someone please tell me if a license is converted eg from one country 'following' a JAA based syllabus to another country also following the JAA does the original license becomes irrelevant?

For example I get a UAE GCAA and then convert to Qatar QCAA will my original UAE license expire?

Also same for FAA to JAA?

I'm really confused on where which license is accepted.

dxbpilot

18th Aug 2006, 05:40

Hi,

I am converting my Australian ICAO CPL lisense to UK JAA CPL a the moment. In order for me to do that i have to jump through all the hoops that the UK sylabus demands, but at the end of it all I end up having a

UK CPL and Australian CPL, you should end up with both once your qualifications are recognized by the other country.(Shouldn't be too hard since there both GCC countrys) You of course will have to meet the requirements of keeping your lisense valid eg. flight reviews etc.

aftrburner

18th Aug 2006, 11:37

Has anyone converted the FAA ATP to JAA on this website? If you have, PM me. I have a few questions for you.

Thanks in advance.

".................Light 'em up!"

scroggs

18th Aug 2006, 11:59

Oh look! Your post has found its way on to a thread all about this exact subject! I wonder how that happened? Perhaps, if you'd looked a few lines down from the top on the front page of Wannabes, you'd have found it yourself. Or you could have tried a search. :ugh: :ugh: :rolleyes:

Scroggs

Olof

18th Aug 2006, 12:36

aftrburner, just to explain, it's quite common for new posters to post without looking if the topic has been covered before. Something not very appreciated by our beloved skipper and moderator. In case you're wondering he was actually giving you a compliment :}

scroggs

18th Aug 2006, 14:59

Was I? Sorry if I'm a bit intolerant today; there's been an unusually high number of first-posters who haven't opened their eyes or engaged brain before posting. This was one - his post's here because I moved it here. The next test is whether he can find it again...

Scroggs

WhiteFly

2nd Sep 2006, 06:39

Hey all,

I have a FAA multi IFR license and a JAA single IFR with frozen ATPL which i resently got..
Now to make the JAA multi IFR i have been told from 2 schools in greece that i need 6 hours on a twin for the multi and another 5 hours for the IFR on the twin.. Total cost with exams are reaching over 6000euro!!!
I just payed so much for the Frozen atpl course!..

By luck i was checking some schools in Holland through a relative and they said something like u only need to do some paper work no flying at all and it will cost something like 700 euro?!?!?!( to convert FAA stuff to JAA or something) I was shocked am im looking still into this but I would like to hear your guys knowledge on this matter!

Thanks

dimitrispa31

2nd Sep 2006, 12:54

I believe the greek schools are right man,you have to do all this course.Did you have b taksis single?That was probably your mistake.When i converted my faa to greek hcaa some years ago i had them multi ifr and when jaa came along i had to do the written only 14 exams.Hurry up A3 is going to employ people in 1,2 months from now as it is heard

shetland23

3rd Sep 2006, 00:17

Hi

I am a British Citizen who is contemplating on getting my commercial licence in Vancouver, Canada.

My reasons for choosing Vancouver for training is that it is more affordable than the UK and that its a beautiful city to live. However, that being said, I am hesistant in training in a country that I may or maynot get employment because of citizenship.

WHat is the process of conversion to a UK commercial licence... ie is it difficult? expensive??

If anyone out there has gone through the process or are in a similar situation or have information about this, I would love to hear your ideas and thoughts.

Thank you very much!

whiskey1

3rd Sep 2006, 00:44

To convert to JAA ATPL from ICAO (i.e. Canadian) CPL/IR:
Attend approved ATPL Ground school (Full time or Distance Learning).
Pass ALL 14 ATPL exams.
Undertake training as required by Head of Training for CPL.
Pass CPL Flight Test.
Undertake a minimum of 15 Hours of I/R Training.
Pass the I/R Flight Test.

Consider my employer: http://www.waaviationcollege.com.au/
Can do a JAA Intergrated or Modular course. Think you'll agree it's very cost effective and Perth in Western Australia is also a Beautiful City.
See http://www.westernaustralia.com/en/

FlyinLow

3rd Sep 2006, 03:46

Consider the Moncton Flight College in Moncton Canada. They offer a JAA program, no need to convert your licence. Check there website for further information.

www.mfc.nb.ca

whiskey1

3rd Sep 2006, 03:55

No Ground school, Exams or Flight Tests at Moncton though!
So either Multiple trips or UK Training at some stage.

Pete O'Tewbe

3rd Sep 2006, 08:56

To convert to JAA ATPL from ICAO (i.e. Canadian) CPL/IR:
Attend approved ATPL Ground school (Full time or Distance Learning).
Pass ALL 14 ATPL exams.
Undertake training as required by Head of Training for CPL.
Pass CPL Flight Test.
Undertake a minimum of 15 Hours of I/R Training.
Pass the I/R Flight Test.
Consider my employer: http://www.waaviationcollege.com.au/
Can do a JAA Intergrated or Modular course. Think you'll agree it's very cost effective and Perth in Western Australia is also a Beautiful City.
See http://www.westernaustralia.com/en/

Shetland23 made no mention of obtaining a Canadian IR. Without one, he will have to do the full 50 hr IR course for the JAR IR(H).

WM1970

3rd Sep 2006, 16:24

I believe you info regarding MFC is incorrect as I am enroled on their JAA program and can assure you that all flight tests can be taken on site. The quality of their training is I believe better than America and their weather is closer to the conditions you would find in the UK. Granted they are not perferct is any college! Given the cost saving and standard I think that I have made the right choice.

davidathomas42

4th Sep 2006, 01:58

THE BEST PREP FOR THE JAA ATPLS IS THE BRISTOL ONLINE GROUND SCHOOL!!

www.atponline.gs (http://www.atponline.gs)

these questions are just like the real exams, you do online tests and on some of the subjects there is a huge ammount of questions that are word for word like the ones in the exams themselfs

combine this with a good study and you well on your way to a good pass mark in the exams

whiskey1

4th Sep 2006, 02:17

WM1970:
The Moncton website said that all testing was done by Cabair in Bournemouth.
Are you sitting the Ground Exams in Canada also or are they in UK?

Yes the Bristol Stuff is good but many schools have extensive feed back. Some choose to make their questions only available to enrolled students.
Know my students have done very well with what they have available.

shetland23

4th Sep 2006, 06:47

thank you so much.

Hi WM1970
Are you British? Do you intend to work in the UK after your training?

ZK-HAB

5th Sep 2006, 03:59

G'Day..

I'm currently at 300hrs TT, just got my Multi IFR on an NZ CPL. I hold a Dutch passport, and have decided to move to Europe to convert and do ATPL's.. My questions to anyone who might be in a position to answer are as follows:

What places other than Bristol.gs and oxford and the likes can anyone reccomend as a good place to do my ATPL theory?

Where is a reccomended place to do the flying component?

and

With approximately 1000 Hrs TT, 100 multi, 600 Hrs Turbine and a frozen JAR ATPL, what kind of oppurtunities would be availiable to me in the Europe, Africa, Middle East regions??
I estimate that I am able to be in this postion within 18months

cheers

davidathomas42

5th Sep 2006, 12:28

ZK-HAB

How many places do you need to do the exams???? Bristol and Oxford are rated at the best for a reason,, people pass there,,, why look elsewhere,, I did mine at the London Met who are ace,, but most of my study was done with the online bristol and in my apartment with the books. passed them all first time with marks in the 80's and 90's

jamess115

6th Sep 2006, 19:54

Hi Folks

I am looking to convert an FAA CPL/IR (Multi) to JAA CPL/IR in UK. (Just the flight portion as i have groundschool & medical).

Does anybody happen to know of ANY flight Schools in England where this can be done; ideally at reasonable cost? :confused:

Thks

BlueRobin

6th Sep 2006, 20:14

Firstly do you know what is entailed?

If not, read LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_06_WEB.pdf) now.

As for where, prices are muchness of a muchness, this is the UK after all and going to be a small fortune. What area of the UK is best suited for you? N and or W London?

If so, perhaps Wycombe http://www.wycombeaircentre.co.uk/ or Stapleford http://www.flysfc.com/ ?

jamess115

6th Sep 2006, 21:10

Hey thks "Blue Robin". I will try both these schools as i am from Sth East part of UK. Yes, i am aware of what is involved for the conversion. The IR TEST must be accomplished in a JAA member state otherwise i would do the whole lot here in the US.
I need to weigh up whether it would cheaper to trvl somewhere else in EUROPE and do the conversion (paying for Accom); or pay more in Blighty but stay at home for free. Im quite sure that there are FTP's offering this conversion in Europe much cheaper than England. I just have to find them. :cool:

Cheers

BlueRobin

6th Sep 2006, 21:34

Make sure you read the above advice about ATPL/CPL theory and CPL practical. esp pertaining to state of issue.

menikos

9th Sep 2006, 10:32

Hello,

Question for the specialists you are.

I've been offered a CPL conversion on the multi (FAA ---> JAA) but what about the single do we have just to take a paper test after like for the multi when you do the CPL on the single or another course ?

Thanks for the help.

Hour Builder

9th Sep 2006, 10:54

If you have FAA CPL with ME and SE, you can convert to JAR CPL on SE, then as you say, if you have -100 hrs on ME you need to do theory test before skill test, if you have +100 hs on ME you just do skill test. Either way, to convert ME from FAA is descetional training.

HB

menikos

9th Sep 2006, 11:14

Just have the CPL/ME not the SE : (((

Hour Builder

9th Sep 2006, 11:44

I dont think that matters. To do JAR CPL on SE you will just require discretional training as I've already said, and because you dont have the SE it may take more then it otherwise would. Have you never flown a SE?

Speak to a different FTO, one that doesnt just wana take your money.

HB

00Viggen

9th Sep 2006, 19:43

Good evening all,

I have been away from flying for about 3 years, but am very much weighing the pros and cons of returning to it, as a career. I relocated from Canada to the UK for employment purposes about a year ago (I am a professional engineer), and one thing that has struck me is the state of the flying industry compared to how it was in Canada. A bit about myself:

Transport Canada CPL
Group 1 (Multi) IFR (not current)
Approximately 750TT, 100 multi

So is it worth me even considering the whole licence conversion route here in the UK? What are the steps to conversion here in the UK, if I wanted IFR and a JAR CPL(A)? Any recommendations on training organisations in the South Wales / South West region that handle ICAO licence conversions like mine?

And finally, is the industry friendly to relatively low hour pilots? In Canada, it is notoriously difficult to get that first job, and that played a big role when it came time to decide between sticking with my flying or working as a professional engineer after uni.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

menikos

9th Sep 2006, 23:09

Yes I've flown SE it's just my CPL which is ME I did my PPL and IFR rating on the SE.

Thanks for the help.

Hour Builder

9th Sep 2006, 23:45

you can do what I said then.

FAA to JAR CPL is discretional training, and FAA ME to JAR SE is just a tad more training then you otherwise would have needed, remove rust from SE flying i would imagine

spoolup

15th Sep 2006, 06:42

i anyone wants question banks go to flyjetz.com
lots of info

Apgrau

22nd Sep 2006, 05:19

Hi All,
I am converting my aussie ICAO fATPL to a JAR fATPL and I will soon have to decide where I need to do my IR.:uhoh:
I will hopefully complete the JAR ATPL's by March next year, doing a distance learning course and then I need to do a CPL-ME/CIR skill test in Europe to have my new licence issued. :ugh:
I am seeking advice on what would be the best option to follow. My priority is to do what is best for my employment in Europe and then comes the cost.Please let me know if anyone out there has got any ideas of what is best to do.:confused:
Here are a few options I have been thinking about:
1)If I do my IR here in Australia, I will then have to go to Europe and do 15hours of familiarisation in European airspace before I can sit my flight test. Although it is cheaper to do an IR in Oz if you add the cost of the familiarisation, the total almost equals an IR in the UK.
2)I can go to Europe and do an IR there. Sure, it might cost more than doing it here, but at the same time you get to fly in European airspace and you get to learn the way they want you to fly, without the hassle of re-learning new procedures.
Now option No.1 gives me more hours for nearly the same amount of money I need for option No.2. I have heard that training in Australia is considered highly worldwide and I think I would be at a good standard, but how hard is the European airspace when it comes to IR flying?:hmm:
Option No.2 means I find an FTO in Europe to do my IR and I kill two birds with one stone. European airspace experience and ME-CIR flight test.
I am leaning towards option no.2 but still considering option no.1
I also need opinions about where in Europe I should be doing my IR. Apparently the best is to have your licence issued in the UK, so I am looking into a few well known FTO's that have a good reputation in the aviation industry when it comes to future employment. Then there is also the option of having my licence issued in Greece, doing my IR with Egnatia Aviation which have very competitive prices. But that comes with my licence issued in Greece and I don't know how that would be looked upon by a european airline other than a Greek one. Meanwhile, I am Greek and very interested in flying for Aegean Airlines or AirSea Lines if I can get the job so that doesn't sound that bad...;)
I would like to hear from guys that might have gone through a licence conversion and also from anyone who might have something to suggest about what to do about all the above mentioned.
Thank you all in advance for any replies I might get.:ok:

climbhi

22nd Sep 2006, 14:15

I found this site , this might help you .
Best reagards,:ok:
Capt. Nelson

http://shop.pilotwarehouse.co.uk/category39023.html

jimbaba

25th Sep 2006, 22:45

...but I'm in the same boat as you! I'm based in Rome with Ryanair right now, flying with an Irish validation of my FAA ATP. That validation is renewed every six months, but the Irish are said to be running out of patience with folks like me who are too lazy to take the 14 JAA writtens. So.... I gotta find the same info you're looking for! If you find something, could you pass along a message to me at [email protected] ?

Cheers, and Ciao... Jim Atkinson

Does any one know if there exists a bank of questions or a guide for the theory exams for for the JAR (ex CAA) ATPL in the UK and where to obtain same. Perplexingly yours...

[This message has been edited by sandy727 (edited 18 September 2000).]

menikos

27th Sep 2006, 10:56

Hello,

simple question for those who converted their FAA licence, I would like to know please the content of the conversion program for a CPL and also for the IR.

Thanks :ok:

HillerBee

27th Sep 2006, 14:00

There is no conversion. You have to do the full theoretical knowledge for CPL and IR (basically ATPL 14 exams). The good news is your flight hours count but the head of training has to determine how many hours of training you need to be able to take the flight test.

Linda Mollison

27th Sep 2006, 16:29

Menikos,

As said above, you need to do the ATPL exams first - and you have to have passed all of the exams before you undertake either of the skill tests.

Training for the CPL is on an 'as required' basis followed by the CPL skill test with a full time CAA examiner or an authorised examiner for the CPL.

Conversion training for the Multi Engine Piston Class Rating is on an 'as required' basis followed by a 40 question written paper (provided by the FTO) and the Proficiency Test with an authorised Class Rating Examiner (usually in-house at the FTO).

A course is required for the IR conversion as follows:

SE non-JAA IR to ME JAA IR:

20 hours minimum of which at least 7 must be in the aircraft (up to 13 can be done in an FNPT2) followed by the IR skill test with a full time CAA examiner. The 20 hours includes the 170A test (the mock test before the actual test).

ME non-JAA IR to ME JAA IR:

15 hours minimum of which at least 5 must be in the aircraft (up to 10 can be done in an FNPT2) followed by the IR skill test with a full time CAA examiner. The 15 hours includes the 170A test (the mock test before the actual test).

If you have low hours be prepared to take more than the minimum hours!

Linda

menikos

28th Sep 2006, 10:14

Sorry I didn't mention that I have my UK ATPL so my question is what is expecting from you during the test (Example - Nav, maneouvres, etc....)

Thx

scroggs

29th Sep 2006, 07:13

What exactly are you converting? From what you say, you have a UK ATPL already and also wish to convert an FAA one. To what? Once I know, then I can place your question in the (already existing) appropriate thread - where the answers you need have almost certainly already been given.

Scroggs

menikos

29th Sep 2006, 10:39

Thanks my friend,

I have a CPL/IR/ME FAA and want to convert it into a JAA one so CPL/IR/ME and I already have my UK ATPL theory.

I just would like to know what is excepting from you to perform during the exam.

:ok:

BIRIMBAO

29th Sep 2006, 15:35

Hi to all,
I would like to convert my ICAO ATPL into JAR/JAA ATPL, could anybody give me names of distance learening schools in Europe ? Or any advise on how to start the conversion program.

Thanks.
Birimbao

mcgoo

30th Sep 2006, 11:25

Have a word with Alex at Bristol ground school, www.bristol.gs

Glidepath2

5th Oct 2006, 05:02

Hi...
Guys quick question. How hard is convert FAA & CAA Commercial Instrument License to JAA. What is Frozen Jaa ATP. I would really appreciate the help.

Saeed Syed

Falz

28th Oct 2006, 12:04

Hi all,

Well I recently got my NZ CPL/MEIR and I'm looking for my next step. I came to the UK for family reasons, and I like getting rained on:} , so I was wondering about my options.

The only thing I have just now is 250 hours and £270 in the bank. And the bank of mum and dad had to sub me an extra £5000 to finish so it's closed. I'm going to spend the next wee while building up some funds but to do what?

I'm going to apply for all the going sponsorships whilst I do some midnight shelf stacking and pick up a lifeguards job.

Oh by the way I'm 22 and left uni early I've got an NPLQ, lifeguard qualification, and my own two hands for making money.

The way I see it if I stay here in the UK which I would like to do. I have to find the money to convert and then start applying. Maybe do my FI and MCC all at cost.

Or I could go overseas and try and pick up some work.

But my question is two fold 1. Am I better to work for a wee while for the funds to come up and then head off on my next adventure
2. Are there any routes I'm overlooking?

Thanks
Falz

scroggs

28th Oct 2006, 15:07

I've placed your post in this thread because you are wasting your time thinking about working in the UK (or anywhere in Europe) unless you convert your licence to a JAA 'frozen' ATPL. You will not get sponsorship for this process; it will have to be self-funded. How you provide for yourself while you raise this money is irrelevant to a forum about flying training, however you may wish to read this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207270&highlight=funding) thread.

Scroggs

WingletTurbo

28th Oct 2006, 16:56

Gentlemen,

I will soon finish my training and hold ME/CPL/IR issued by the FAA. I want to convert it all to JAA, and eventually get my JAA ATPL and move back to Europe. Now I have heard that if you pass the JAA ATPL written exams right off the bat, that that eliminates the written exams for any ratings below that. It would simply then just be flying exams. Can anyone confirm this or give me a better route?

Thanks in advance.

-WT

jamess115

8th Nov 2006, 22:45

Hello

I am searching for a flight school in Europe which can offer me the lowest rate to convert my FAA CPL/IR to a JAR license.
Through much research, i think the UK is very expensive. :ugh:

Can anybody please offer me their opinion or recommendations concerning a cost effective Flight Training Provider which runs FAA Conversion Courses?

Thankyou
James

PPL152

14th Nov 2006, 10:30

In addition to the very previous post here it goes..

IF I have done the following...

1) Got my 14 ATPL exams via Bristol.gs or GTS by distance learning
2) MEP and CPL in Spain
3) FAA IR in the USA
4) Convert FAA IR to JAA ME-IR in Europe

Are these steps possible, especially number 4?
Do you get the same ME-IR with FAA IR, or would you do the ME part of ME-IR during the conversion course to JAA in Europe?

Many thanks for your replies.

BestAviation

14th Nov 2006, 22:01

...
Are these steps possible, especially number 4?
Do you get the same ME-IR with FAA IR, or would you do the ME part of ME-IR during the conversion course to JAA in Europe? ....

Yes it is very possible provided you have an FAA ME-IR.

2close

15th Nov 2006, 01:20

PPL152,

One small hiccup with your plans.

I am very reliably informed that Spain will only issue a CPL provided you have a Spanish medical and that you have undertaken both flight and theory examinations in Spain.

Does Spain recognise Bristol GS and / or GTS as an approved training organisation for pre-exam theory studies?

I am studying with Bristol and I was told by a Spanish FTO that the Spanish authorities would not permit me to undertake the exams unless I had studied at an approved Spanish FTO (but that may have been sales spin so you would be advised to check with the authority itself).

I am even more reliably informed that the Spanish authorities can be extremely anal (and this source of info I do trust 100%) so be careful - do not tie yourself into any chain of events that are not compatible with the route you wish to take.

As for the FAA IR, no problems. It's an ICAO IR so just requires the JAA theory exams, mandatory 15 hour conversion course and flight test.

HTH

2close

BestAviation

15th Nov 2006, 01:54

In addition to the very previous post here it goes..
IF I have done the following...
1) Got my 14 ATPL exams via Bristol.gs or GTS by distance learning
2) MEP and CPL in Spain
3) FAA IR in the USA
4) Convert FAA IR to JAA ME-IR in Europe

If you first plan to go to the US and do an IR - why not do the UK CPL and MEP there as well?? This way you don't have to worry about Spain - you keep it all UK CAA/JAA and I'm pretty sure you can even save a few bucks flying in the US vs. Spain. Particularly with the favourable exchange rate these days.

There are quite a few FAA/JAA schools in the US that can provide both for you. There is no need to obtain FAA certificates - you can do JAA CPL/ME from scratch.

Just my two cents... :cool:

PPL152

15th Nov 2006, 07:49

So I can do ATPL theory with GTS, then FAA CPL and FAA ME-IR in the US, then convert them to JAA back in Europe?

BestAviation

15th Nov 2006, 13:51

So I can do ATPL theory with GTS, then FAA CPL and FAA ME-IR in the US, then convert them to JAA back in Europe?

Actually you can do JAA CPL in the US. You don't have to do an FAA one first. What alot of students to these days is get a JAA CPL and FAA ME/IR in the US then go back to UK and do the IR conversion.

The days were you had to get an FAA certificate to convert to JAA are long gone in the US.

2close

15th Nov 2006, 14:22

Okey dokey.

Simple question.

What exactly do you wish to achieve, i.e. your long term goals?

Do you wish to fly JAA member state registered aircraft or do you wish to fly US registered aircraft? Where do you wish to fly? Do you want to fly for the airlines or are your sights set a little differently? What stage of training are you presently at?

The answers to these will make the advice easier to give.

2close

PPL152

15th Nov 2006, 17:12

What exactly do you wish to achieve, i.e. your long term goals?
Do you wish to fly JAA member state registered aircraft or do you wish to fly US registered aircraft? Where do you wish to fly? Do you want to fly for the airlines or are your sights set a little differently? What stage of training are you presently at?

1) My goal is to fly for a living
2) I wish to fly in JAA member state.
3) Yes I would like to fly for an airline - turboprops or jets. I would not mind Instructing at all, also.
4) I have finished PPL last May, and next Summer I am starting ATPL theory.

FlyBoyFryer

19th Nov 2006, 18:32

Hi Everyone,

Although I've already had a look through various forums and discussion places, there doesn't seem to be any one/central location for concise, easily disseminated information relating to converting a USA FAA-issued PPL/CPL/IR/Multi Rating to the UK equivalent.

In saying this, I'm fully aware that the British CAA's website does contain most, if not all, the information I require (specifically, the LASOR’s section - http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=175&pagetype=68&groupid=780 (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=175&pagetype=68&groupid=780)) ... it's just not the easiest to read and I’m certain, if not hoping, that some of you guys have had the dubious pleasure of trying to establish what’s involved in this type matter.

For background purposes then:

1. I currently hold a FAA issued ASEL PPL
2. Am about to move to the USA on a J-1 visa in order to complete further training such that I obtain my CPL, IR and Multi-Engine ratings
3. I’ll then be embarking on my CFI, CFII and MEI training courses
4. Set to work as an instructor for the flight school for a while
5. Then set to return to the UK around July ‘08
6. Work as a commercial pilot with an instrument, multi-engine and instructor ratings in and around Southern Scotland
7. Specifically interested in the conversion process necessary in order to ensure that I have point 6 covered!!
8. Keep wondering:
ü Is this the best way to complete the flight training I desire (i.e. doing it in the US)
ü How truly interchangeable/compatible are the UK and US issued licenses?
ü IS the USA a member of the JAA states?
ü Does JAR-Compliant mean anything for real in terms of converting to the UK system after my training has been completed?
ü I know I can’t afford to do the same amount of courses/training in the UK for the same amount of money but is that reason enough?
ü How many other pilots out there like me have gone battled with the same dilemma and/or situation?

Thanks in advance and hope to hear from you all,

Justin.

I’m aware that most of you guys know exactly what the abbreviations I’ve used throughout this post stand for, but just to avoid any confusion:
FAA – Federal Aviation Authority/Administration
CAA – British Civil Aviation Authority
ASEL – Aircraft Single Engine Land
PPL – Private Pilot License
CPL – Commercial Pilot License
IR – Instrument Rating
CFI – Certified Flight Instructor
CFII – Certified Flight Instructor for Instrument
MEI – Multi Engine Instructor

Finals19

19th Nov 2006, 19:26

You'll find all this pretty much by doing a search using the PPrune search engine, but in summary:

- You will not be able to work anywhere in Europe (under the JAA regulations) with your FAA licence unless you are flying an N reg aircraft.

- Your FAA CPL/ME/IR will need converting - if under 1500hrs TT = approved ground school (650hrs) 14 JAA written exams, CPL skills test and IR skills test (the IR requires a min. of 15hrs training to convert)

- If over 1500hrs TT you need to do whatever ground training is deemed necessary by the head ground instructor of a recognised FTU to write the exams. Skills tests still apply.

That's the bottom line. Hope it helps.

fokkerkazak

20th Nov 2006, 00:19

i have 16000 hrs flying props in asia/australia, have a us atp and aussie atpl,i read the lasors, studied bristow, and other training schools,from what i can see there is no way to avoid the 14 subjects and 15 hrs flying and a skills test to get a jar licence? am i correct OR can i get a 6 month validation through ireland, greece or anywhere else in europe.someone told me in the UK you can get 12 month validation on your licence but a lot of people say no.:ugh:

any comments are appreciated guys

Finals19

20th Nov 2006, 20:48

Fokkerkazak...

The only way around the exams and ground school is if you hold an ICAO ATPL, with 3000+ hrs and 1500hrs PIC on a transport category aircraft with a MTOW of +30,000kgs. That is a UK CAA mandate (and no doubt JAA too) At that point you have to write to the CAA and inform them of your experience. I believe it is then a case of writing the air law exam only and perhaps a sim check on your respective type.

cne001

7th Dec 2006, 15:10

Hello,I hold a FAA ATPL with type rating on the A320 with time on type more than 500 hrs and looking for a sim partner to share cost of a skill test. I am looking for a person who have completed all 14 JAA atpl exams and hold a A320 typerating with more than 500 hr on type (requried) and total time more than 1500hrs (req). If you have the experince above you can convert your FAA ATP into a JAA ATPL by doing a skill test on the A320. Let me know if anyone are interested.Thanks

scroggs

9th Dec 2006, 14:55

You're in the wrong forum - this one is for ab-initio pilots still trying to get their initial licence. !500+ hour pilots will be found in 'Terms and Endearments'.

Scroggs

TZZ

23rd Dec 2006, 01:48

hi i have a newzealand commercial license and i was thinking of doing the JAA atpl subjects do i need to convert my license before sitting the exams or i can sit all the written exams without converting my newzealand license

scameron77

23rd Dec 2006, 03:47

Hi,

I had to do the same thing with an FAA licence.

You can only convert the flying portion when you pass the 14 exams (for a full CPL/IR), you can start it but it would be foolish as your currency and rustiness will set in. Put aside 4 months absolute minimum to do the 14, then a further 4 weeks to convert (perfect VFR and no backlogs with examiners).

The minimums you can do are as follows:

For the CPL Conversion - Hours as required

For the IR Conversion - 10 hours sim & 5 hours aircraft

Also factor in the following:

Test fees:

CAA - £691 x2, £60 x14, £210 licence issue, Class 1 Medical £450ish

At the school:

RT exam - £35, £100 x2 170A Test Fee

Weather in the UK being **** - extra 4 - 6 weeks accommodation

Haren

27th Dec 2006, 12:15

G'day aviators,

I wish to change my Australian CPL, MECIR, FIR and endorsements into the JAR version in order to work in Europe and also to meet the minimum requirements in order to do a jet rating.

Has anyone been down this path? Where is the best place in UK to convert the ICAO CPL/MECIR into the JAR?

Thanks

JamesECU

29th Dec 2006, 11:09

can anyone tell me what the best way would be to convert my licence from an Australian CPL / ATPL to an JAR

or is it easer to covert to a UK CPL ATPL or do you have to now have a JAR ?

thanks

redsnail

29th Dec 2006, 15:26

The easiest way is to have a total time of +3,000 hours with +1,500 hours in command of aircraft 30 tonne or more in primarily international or equivalent operations. However, that restricts you to G reg aircraft.

To answer your question you should go to LASORS on the CAA (UK) SRG site and sift through those. It's not an easy read but it should answer your questions.

The "easiest" way does depend on your hours and types flown.

An unofficial guide, details MUST be checked.

**in all of the below cases, 14 JAA ATPL subjects must be done**
**CPL training JAA style, some flying required.**
**IR training, JAA style. Looking at 15 hours min, some can be in a synthetic trainer**
**JAA subjects cover CPL and IR subjects, so no need to duplicate**
**JAA medical must be done, for the UK, this needs to be done at Gatwick**

Aus CPL with CIR and ATPL subjects completed. = JAA CPL with IR with ATPL subjects completed. Need to do MCC. (also known as "frozen ATPL")

Aus ATPL with CIR, no multi crew time = JAA CPL with IR with ATPL subjects completed. Need to do MCC.

Aus ATPL with CIR, 500 hours Bandeirante {FO or command} (ie not JAR 25 aircraft) in RPT ops = JAA ATPL, need letter from company explaining time was done multi crew. Need to do a type rating (JAR 25 type) with a TRTO and do the LST observed by the CAA. Don't want to do that and fly a piston. JAA CPL + IR, MCC exempt so long as you have the letter.

Aus ATPL with CIR, 500 hours Dash 8 or 737 {FO or command} (ie JAR 25 compliant) = JAA ATPL. Need only to do enough sim stuff to get you up to speed and pass an LST observed by the CAA.

Source documents.
LASORS CAA SRG
JARs www.jaa.nl

JamesECU

30th Dec 2006, 06:55

thanks it appears very complex to convert over to a JAR licence, just silly. Would anyone recommend doing the converstion in the USA or in the UK?

thanks

cypilot77

24th Jan 2007, 18:27

MIKECR

24th Jan 2007, 20:54

You still have to do the JAA exams. There's a way round it though, only if you have so many 1000's of hours heavy jet time i think. Im sure somebody will correct me though and give you the exact party line

GrkPilot

24th Jan 2007, 23:44

hello guys, i have FAA CPL/ME/IR and about 500TT. i was wondering if there is any airline in Europe that still hires FAA pilots. Also i need to know if i decide to convert to JAA, do i still have to pass all 14 exams? Does JAA give any credit to FAA licenses or credit for college degrees. i have MBA in aviation management. thank you very much. Any responds are welcome.
thanks

No airlines will hire you in Europe with FAA licenses. You will need to get your JAA ATPL and that takes 14 exams, you then will have to convert your CPL/IR. CPL can be done in US, IR has to be done in EU 15 hours minimum.
I also have a degree Aeronautical Science from NYC, doesnt do anything though.

kd2473

29th Jan 2007, 14:53

Hey everyone,
I have a few questions about this complete nightmare of a conversion!
(1) Does anyone know if there are out there any courses that tailor their course to the individual? I am currently enrolled distance learning with NAC in Florida but getting s*d all done and I'm frustrated. What I need is someone who can tell me what I need to know (ie with my specific experience - 7,000TT but all in the US, and no, not enough heavy jet hours to get the exemption) and tailor my studying to that, not just start ploughing through all of the rubbish!
(2) On the same lines, does anyone know of any private tutors who would be able to give me 1-on-1 tuition in my weak areas? I'm currently in Chicago but at some stage will be over in London (I hope).
(3) Rightly or wrongly I have heard good things about the BGS online database. If I just learned and learned and learned all the Qs & As on that (plus in any other crib anyone has found useful), would that get me through? I'm quite happy to learn off by heart (worked for the FAA exams!) but it's the rest of it that's killing me.
(4) Realistically, if I can set aside say 10 hrs a week to study, how long is it going to take? Surely I'm not going to have to learn everything from scratch??
Cheers and good luck to anyone who's trudging through it all at the moment.

kd2473

29th Jan 2007, 15:35

Did this have to be moved? I was asking specific questions (not just the normal 'do I really have to do all 14 exams?' 'Yes you do' stuff!) and I'm concerned that no-one will bother trawling through 8 pages of that sort of question to get to my queries.:rolleyes:
Thanks!

aeroslon

30th Jan 2007, 15:16

Hello all,
I currently hold ICAO ATPL, and Japanese ATPL,now I am thinking about moving to Europe.I would like to know is there any procedure for conversion ICAO or Japanese Licence to JAR ?
Thanks .

Bealzebub

30th Jan 2007, 18:01

Two points : Japan is an ICAO contracting state, and secondly ICAO do not issue licences.

"ICAO does not issue any licences. Licences issued by ICAO Contracting States on the basis of Standards and Recommended Practices of Annex 1 – Personnel Licensing, are habitually called ICAO licences. This has led many to believe that there is a specific ICAO or international licence. The fact is that there is not one single international licence issued by ICAO or any other organization. States issue their own licences based on national regulations in conformity with Annex 1 specifications and validate licences issued by other Contracting States on the basis of bilateral or multilateral agreements or the fulfilment of nationally legislated requirements.

For more information, please refer to Annex 1, Chapter 1, paragraph 1.2.

You would need to obtain written conversion terms from one of the JAR member states in order to convert your current licence.

strikefinder

30th Jan 2007, 19:00

What is the best way to convert a Canandian ATPL to a JAA ATPL? I also have a valid EU passport plus a Jet type rating with 1000hrs plus on type. The passport is Hungarian. Thank you in advance for any advice.

Conners1981

31st Jan 2007, 09:43

Hi Everyone,

I have recently followed my Girlfriend to the UK and I was hoping someone could fill me in on what is required to convert an Australian CPL(A) to the JAA equivalent to fly in the EU.

My plan is to convert my Australian CPL(A) and go and do my JAA ATPL theory with Bristol. Then join all the other battlers trying to get a job!

Any Advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Conners :ok:

Finals19

31st Jan 2007, 12:09

With very few exceptions:

- 14 JAA ground exams from an approved JAA groundschool (i.e. Bristol)
- CPL flight test, whatever training the CFI deems necessary
- IR flight test, min 15hrs to convert your ICAO IR (10 approved sim, 5 a/c)
- JAA Class one med, only to be done at London Gatwick

I also believe that you will have to sit an MEP flight test to validate your MEP rating (personally, dependent on your hours on MEP (me Canadian CPL 800hrs MEP) I find that a bit of a cash cow, but ho-hum, welcome to the world of JAA.

Oh yeah, a big thick wad of cash is required too...:ok:

Finals19

31st Jan 2007, 12:12

PM me with your exact hours, experience and types. I assume your TR on the jet is conforming to Transport Canada standards and done in Canada? In which case it is not transferrable (as far as I know) to the JAA.

I'll get back to you.

jto767

1st Feb 2007, 08:58

Is there anybody from Eastern- European countries who already made the license conversion from ICAO/ATPL to JAA/ATPL???
Which FTO is able to organise thinks with its own CAA (after you passed all 14 tests, and payed lots of money), that you will have the chance to get the full license, not only the theoretical exams certificate???
Looks like all the FTO's wants just get money for the theoretical package then let people fight with CAA to get the rest!!!
Any help deeply appreciated!!!

flyboymurphy

1st Feb 2007, 22:25

Hi everybody,
I am a european citizen working in a fractional company as a Captain.
I would like to possibly return to europe some day and fly.
I understand i would need JAA licences.
currently i do not meet any of the easier routes for the JAA atpl, (the aircraft i fly are not heavy enough altho i do have over 1500 hrs,)
Any school recommendations for the US or good distance learning courses ?
Would it make any sense to convert to a JAA cpl first with perhaps the frozenAtpl exams done. Would it in theory be possible to geta job with JAA cpl and fAtpl?
It is a definately confusing the hell out of me!
thanks
Steve

come fly

26th Feb 2007, 09:00

Does anyone know how much a conversion of ICAO IR to a JAA IR.
Any Information would be aprreciated. Thanx

Jaguar Pilot

26th Feb 2007, 10:20

Suggest you ask an IR approved school.
At least the information will be accurate.

JP:ok:

atila_101

27th Feb 2007, 12:42

Hi there guys!!
How are you doing guys, I have a question for you, I want to convert my Spanish JAR licence into a british one, because to be honest i'm very upset with my spanish caa, they are all a bunch of lazy guys.
Can anybody give some hints or tell me whats the procedure to follow, papers to show up or certificates and what could be the aproximate prize for that.
I've been looking in the british CAA web page but I was unable to find the exact part regarding this.
If this topic was treat before can anybody foreward me the link, I haven't seen anything so far.
Hey thank all answers are welcome, you guys can send me a pm if wanted.
Hey nice landigs.
Atila.

BlueRobin

27th Feb 2007, 12:59

You need to pass the JAR State of Licence Issue requirements.
Downloads LASORS section A

http://www.caa.co.uk/lasors

Look at A8.

An applicant may only apply to change the state of
licence issue of a JAR-FCL licence provided that
employment or normal residency is established in that
state. Normal residency means the place where a
person usually lives for at least 185 days in each
calendar year because of personal and occupational
ties or, in the case of a person with no occupational ties,
because of personal ties which can show close links
between that person and the place where she or he is
living.(JAR-FCL 1.070/2.070 refers).

Highlander744

27th Feb 2007, 13:01

Buenos Dias Amigo.

You can try the CAA PDF downloadable LASORS - section G for your enquiry.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf

Good luck and hope it helps.

Adios.

Firegoofy

1st Mar 2007, 10:41

Hello,

i from gemany and intend to do my JAA CPL and FAA IR/ME in the USA. Afterthem i would like to convert the IR in Spain or UK to a Jaa IR. Do anyone know, if there is then a notice in the current License that the IR comes from a converation?

Thanks

FlyByRotor

2nd Mar 2007, 17:21

Don't know if you've been at Bristol's websites yet? I'm currently making good use of their online ATPL question bank, as I am converting an FAA helicopter CPL to JAR... The questions are there... That's all there is to it. That and the small price you have to pay to get access to them. Totally worth it...

Good luck!

jeyjey

3rd Mar 2007, 09:54

Hello,http://www.jals.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif

I'm in the process of converting my FAA ATP in a JAA one with the Netherlands authorities. I'm already passed the theoretical exams (thanks to bristol and orbit ground school !!!), and know I'm looking for a flight school for the practical part ( CPL skill test, IR and ME rating). Here my question: Is it necessary to conduct the flight training in the state of license issue (NL) or may I choose any JAA member states? Has anyone experience with stuff like that? I'm already send that question to the NL-authorities but haven't got an reply until know.
Thanks for any advises...
http://www.jals.co.uk/forum/images/bgsf/buttons/edit.gif (http://www.jals.co.uk/forum/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=17979)

Engine Noise

6th Mar 2007, 00:16

Is it possible for a FAA CPL holder to get just a JAA CPL excluding frozen atpl and what are the requirements to convert as well as the limitations?

ITFC1

9th Mar 2007, 07:39

Hi,
Affraid not, you will have to do it in the aircraft, if you had enough time for the ATPL you could do ATPL to ATPL in the sim with a CAA Flight Ops Inspector.

I have just gone through all this in the last couple of weeks.

PM me if you have any other Q's

Tomasz

9th Mar 2007, 21:42

Hey the reason that I'm writing is that in a month and half I plan to finish writing all 14 JAA exams in england, and then plan to do the flying part of my conversion. I know what the requirements are minimum 5 hours for the CPL, and then flight test, and then the multi flight test, and the 15 IR, and flight test. The questions is I know those are the minimums, but what is the realistic number of flying hours of the minimum I should budget for? thank you

BigGrecian

9th Mar 2007, 21:59

I would say on average 10 for the Commerical.
20 for the instrument.
A lot of students have the attitude that the conversion will be easy and they will complete in minimum hours. These students often struggle. It's not as easy as people think. There is a big difference between the FAA Commercial and JAA Commercial.

scameron77

13th Mar 2007, 03:21

I think people need to know the distinguishing facts between the JAA ATPL and FAA ATP.

Firstly in the UK you sit 14 exams of differing length after attaining your PPL normally. In the UK you generally start the IR with slightly higher hours, However upon attaining your CPL/IR you then have a fATPL. This is just a term used for the licence, there is in no effect an offical licence or document from the CAA confirming this status. So, cutting to the chase, in Europe you can fly the big jets in essence with 250ish hours minimum.

You can sit your FAA IR with a minimum of around 90hrs (PPL - min 40 and 50 hours x/c). The US IR is more about the day in question and not practiced to a flying by numbers type process (well I found anyway) as the UK is, you jump in the aircraft and the examiner says, 'have you been here before?', 'nope', 'well lets go' and you pull a SID for your home airport, STAR and VOR-A for Rwy 12 at AAAA, read through it quickly, call clearance for a tower en-route. The US licence tests more understanding of IR principals than the UK one which was more procedural and normally without many changes to the profile you practice in the sim a number of times, you can almost second guess the ATC calls you will receive.

In the US you get things thrown at you in the cockpit and have to make more split decisions i.e. 3 mins from a VOR you will get a 'hold on the 320 radial inbound, standard turns, you are flying on a heading of 020, work out your entry and your hold, situational awareness, etc. I did mine in a C172 and did an instrument approach as part of my Multi PPL to have it added to my licence. The did a CPL Multi (which is under VFR).

The big difference is in the US you aren't awared a ATP until you have 1,500 hours, of which 500 are multi-engine multi crew satisfying a certain weight or type requirement (it escapes me). Upon attaining this you then sit a skills test after already sitting a skills test paper of 100 questions which you did in the preceding 12 months.

Therefore here is my take. In the US you can attain a IR relatively early in your career and can buzz about honing your skills, gradually building up proficency of instrument flying and working up to larger aircraft as you work towards your goal. You then sit a test which is approximatley similar in content, to the UK Multi-IR which you sit in JARland with 250 hours.

Top those who say the US IR is just like an JAR IMC, well not really, maybe halfway between that and a full JAR IR, however it tests different skills to the JAR one. There are no surprises in JAR, plenty in the US, however and ILS here is the same as one over there, planes in UK airspace stall at the same airspeed as they do in the US. The big difference is you sit the major test in Europe generally with 250ish hours and the equivalent in the US with 1,500.

Both have pros and cons. I have my opinion but to avoid a bloodbath I will keep that to myself. I can't be arsed getting into a slanging match as I have my TR LST next week.

BestAviation

13th Mar 2007, 23:39

Some interesting questions at hand here...
first off - converting an FAA CPL to a JAA CPL after sitting the 14 exams can be fairly straight forward...if you do it in the US. From experience I can tell you that doing the CPL conversion in the UK is a totally different can of worms...so don't fall in the "training as required" trap.
Where UK and the US differ most are how the airspace is used, various procedures, and ATC R/T. Just getting used to the UK VFR chart - and learning that an ATZ may (or may not) be a controlled airfield.....or may even be as little as a ground/air radio (why they never managed to differenciate this on the chart is beyond me). Further you have MATZ and regional QNH settings in the UK...something not known for someone with US only experience. Class D airspace is not as friendly in the UK as it is in the US...and you generally have less space to move about on (England is after all not a very big country...considering how many ppl live here - and fly here).
Take it from someone who has gone the route....though the airplane itself flies the same wherever you are - you will have your hand full just remembering all the bits and bobs you need to do - and how the examiner wants you to fly the check ride. Unfortunately that may take more than the "training as required...5 hours...." as everyone seems to be quoting.
Top those who say the US IR is just like an JAR IMC, well not really, maybe halfway between that and a full JAR IR, however it tests different skills to the JAR one.
There is no JAR IMC....the IMC rating is a UK CAA thing....valid in UK airspace on a G-reg aircraft. And saying that the FAA IR is "halfway between" is not giving it enough justice. The FAA IR is quite equal to the JAA one, and far superior to the IMC rating (which was intended for PPLs..and is a great idea!)...just ask any of the biz-jet pilots buzzing around in their N-reg business jets in the UK.
If you do have an FAA IR though - you can paper convert it to a CAA IMC rating just by filling in the right forms...provided it is current within the past 12 months.

I've done my fair share of flying under both systems - instructed under both - been lost in both....but always found my way back. And I love them both for what they are. In the end I think this whole FAA, JAA debate is a bit far fetched....all that matters is where you wish to fly in the end. If that's Europe - fine; get the JAR stuff.....you will need it. If you plan to stay in the states....well; no way about it without the FAA stuff.

Remember that JAA is just as useless for commercial flying in the states as the FAA is in the UK....maybe even more so - yet to see a G-reg business jet in the US :P

Apgrau

20th Mar 2007, 01:14

Finals19,
If the pm you sent to thomasz is regarding the minimum hours required for the jar conversion I am sure there are a few of us here interested to find out what you have to say...At least I know I am!:hmm:
Could you please either write the info here for the public or send me a pm too?
Unless offcourse it is irrelevant to the topic, in which case I sincerely apologise!:ugh:
Cheers!:ok:

GrkPilot

31st Mar 2007, 09:09

From what I heard, holders of a FAA ME do not have to convert it to JAA ? Can anyone clarify this?

ITFC1

31st Mar 2007, 11:28

Yes you do i am affriad, i've just done mine. You have to convert everything.

PM me if you want any help.

Bloody_Canuck

3rd Apr 2007, 06:56

I am a British Canadian who holds a canadian PPL. With my British citizenship I was looking at converting over to JAA licenses and was looking for some help as to how this works and also what the industry is like over in Europe.

Thanks in advance!

Canada Goose

3rd Apr 2007, 08:14

Well, with only a PPL you will be not be given much, if any credit, although I believe a PPL is a minimum requirement to start your ATPL (or CPL) groundschool. I take it you are aware that over here, we tend to do all 14 Atpl exams to begin with rather than a CPL (some may do about 12 exams for CPL only - I think), and then go and do ATPL with 1500+ hours like in Canada.

My advice would be to do your Canadian CPL and Multi IFR (known over here as MEIR) and then convert them over here. For the CPL you only need to take the flight test (obvioulsy would need some prep with instructors etc) and for the MEIR you have to do a minimum of 15 hours training before flight test, of which 10 can be FNPTII sim and 5 in ME a/c.

It's been over 4 years now since I was in Canada and I can't comment on the industry over there, but here in the UK it is bouyant, so they tell me, but I've not had one interview yet. However, I'm 40 and you're 19, presumably with no wife and kids and that goes a long way to enable you to be flexible and mobile as well as appear less of a training risk to airlines !

Not sure how long you've been visiting this site for but all the info is on here if you look/do searches.

Good luck.
CG:ok:

BlueRobin

3rd Apr 2007, 09:11

That will get you a CPL/IR, but not an ATPL.

If you do the conversion route, you will still need to do the ATPL theory. For this you will get a 200 hours reduction for holding a JAA CPL and a further 200 hours for a JAA IR. IIRC the total ATPL theory is 650 hours. So factor in 250 hurs study into the above suggestion, that's about 3 months full-time I reckon.

Bloody_Canuck

3rd Apr 2007, 14:49

Thanks for the info, I am looking at the Moncton Flight College in association with Cabair for my JAA training.

oldschooljenko

4th Apr 2007, 07:12

Hi everyone,
First of sorry if I have posted this in the wrong section. My question is in regards to finding work in the UK. I currently fly in Australia, I have 1000hrs MECIR and ATPL subjects. I understand I'd need to do the JAA theory. Would I need to do all of the exams and what would the job propects be with the above quals. I also have dual citizenship. Thanks in advance for any replies.
Cheers
Jenko

Benny71

4th Apr 2007, 08:01

I think you will need to complete and approved 650 hour groundschool and pass all 14 ATPL exams. This is what I am doing at the moment.

I believe to be exempted from the full groundschool you need more than 1500 hours on two-pilot aircraft, and you still need to pass the 14 exams. Great huh!?

I can't help you regarding the work situation, although it's got to be better than here.

Cheers,
Ben.

Benny71

4th Apr 2007, 13:13

If you are thinking of moving to Europe to fly I would suggest not worrying about the Aust ATPL subjects, and go straight for the UK JAA ATPL theory credits, then convert your Aust CPL to a frozen UK ATPL.

If you eventually want to return to Oz I think you would only have to sit the ATPL Air Law exam to convert your UK ATPL to an Australian ATPL.

Benny71

5th Apr 2007, 08:24

You really do have your work cut out for you. I'm married to an Italian citizen and I've got visa issues to overcome until my citizenship application is processed. It just makes it infinitely harder unless you hold an EU passport.

Do you have any European heritage, Irish or British perhaps? You might have the right to abode in the UK if your granparents were British for example.

Also, I hope you've got your finances sorted. Converting your licence in the UK is going to cost you big time if you're paying with Ozzie dollars. The CAA's charged compared to the CASA's will leave you in shock. Shame the opportunities aren't that great in Aus but my wife and I are looking on this being a hopefully great adventure.

PM me if I can be of any help.

Fhead

9th Apr 2007, 00:24

hey guys wondering if anyone knows what’s involved in converting an oz CPL to British CPL? also have just finished oz ATPL theory would I have to do another JAA ATPL theory or would I be able to get the experience to hold the full oz licence and then get it converted?

Benny71

9th Apr 2007, 01:34

To be exempted from sitting the 14 CAA ATPL exams you need more than 3000 hours on aircraft > 30,000kgs. Even then you still need to pass the Human Performance and Air Law exams.

Otherwise if you have at least 1500 hours on two-pilot aircraft you need to pass all 14 ATPL exams, but are exempted from formal groundcourse component.

If you don't fit into any of the above you need to enrol in a formal groundschool by either distance or full time, and pass the 14 exams.

Cheers.

Fhead

9th Apr 2007, 01:45

Righto then, think I'll leave it for a while.

thanks

Will964

9th Apr 2007, 13:27

The weird thing is, if you do it the opposite way (UK to Australian license), you only need to sit the Air Law examine and a flight test :confused:

jeyjey

12th Apr 2007, 09:46

Hello,
does someone know what are the requirements for converting FAA to JAA ATP?
If I would have a A320 Type rating and 500h on Type on my FAA ATP (total of 3500h), what kind of practical ckecks I would have to do (cpl skill test, IR ...???). Is it possible just to make a skill check on A320 to get the JAA ATP? The 14 exams are already done. Thanks in advance...Jens
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finallyflying

22nd Apr 2007, 08:58

Hi guys

Im currently working on my CPL (in New Zealand), and my plan is to convert it to a JAA (f)ATPL on completion.

Given that I have my head in the books at the moment, does anyone know if its possible to sit the JAA ATPLs, or some of them, right now also?

Obviously that would involve a certain degree of self-study, even if I could just travel to sit the exams.

So, can anyone tell me if it is an absolute requirement that I must attend an approved school for an ATPL course, or can I just apply for the exams?

Thanks,

FF.:confused:

helicopter-redeye

22nd Apr 2007, 09:07

You have to attend the course.

Somebody else from NZ did the two course units (self study) back to back, came over, did the two X 2 weeks back to back, took the exams and exited stage left with the results slips.

h-r

finallyflying

22nd Apr 2007, 09:16

G'day

Given that a conversion from ICAO CPL to JAA ATPL is going to take a certain amount of time, where in the world is the nicest location that it can be done at?

And Im talking beaches, warm weather, beers and hot chicks ;)

Any suggestions ?!

GrkPilot

22nd Apr 2007, 11:34

I would try Greece or Spain.

high-in-nz

25th Apr 2007, 10:48

I am from NZ and currently doing my flight training here, I am planning to finish at the end of the year with my ppl\cpl\ifr\atpl\multi, I would then like to move to europe, maybe the uk, france or norway, has anyone done anything simular that could give me some advice\info on license conversions etc? is it possible? how much? how long?
thanx

Newryflyer32

28th Apr 2007, 01:15

Okay guys can someone please help me out. I was born and grew up in Northern Ireland. I have spent all of my adult life in the USA where I am currently employed as a pilot for JetBlue Airways. To date I have over 8000 hours TT and am type rated in the CRJ, D328, B737 and A320. I am about to upgrade to the E190 which weights in at > 100,000s . Someday I would like to come back home to fly but I am confused about the requirements for converting my FAA ATP to the JAR equivalent. If I log 1500s PIC in the E190 do I have to do my flight handling examine in this particular model aircraft. I have about 2000 hrs SIC flying the A320, can I do my examine in this. Can I use a level D Simulator. Any insight by anyone in the know will be very much appreciated.

redsnail

28th Apr 2007, 09:20

If you intend to get a UK JAA ATPL upon your return then you only need to sit 2 exams (Air Law and Human Performance - or whatever it's called this week). You'll need to do an CAA observed LPC in whatever machine you have the 1500 hours on. (Although, that detail needs to be checked - either way, it's still a CAA observed LPC).

The only guys I know who had to do the CAA observed check ride did it in the aircraft that they had the command time in. B737, so I'd advise a long and detailed read through LASORS.

Note! This will only permit you to fly G- reg aircraft. If you want to fly EI- reg, F-reg or CS-reg (etc) then you'll need to sit the remaining 12 exams.

scroggs

28th Apr 2007, 13:06

NF32, you are in a forum for baby pilots, not yet qualified to fly anything much. Redsnail (another experienced pilot) has kindly answered your question, at leats in part, but you are effectively aiming your question at the unqualified innocents in the flying community.

The forum best placed to answer your question is probably 'Questions' (natch), or perhaps 'Tech Log'. For subsequent employment, go to 'Terms and Endearments'.

Scroggs

Newryflyer32

28th Apr 2007, 14:32

Thanks guys, I unfortunately don't have very much experience with the pprune forums.

santos dumont

1st May 2007, 13:12

Why, oh why is everything so complicated ? Could someone with a real insight into this please clarify a few points for me (and everyone else) ?

What is a JAA license ? If I get a UK, Italian, French, Greek, Spanish, etc... license, can I say I have a JAA license ? Any restrictions on what I can do with this license based on where it has been issued ?

Why is there so much info on UK and so little on other countries ? Could this be because I only check english websites ? Why do people say it's easier and cheaper in some countries as opposed to others ? Are there different standards ?

What part of the license do I have to do in Europe and what part am I allowed to do in another (cheaper) country (US) ?

I hold FAA ATPL and know that I have to pass 14 exams and the commercial in the same country. Then pass the IFR and Multi someplace else if I want. That gives me a frozen ATPL. Then I get a type rating to unfreeze it.

Any info would be much appreciated, recomendations on flight schools in Europe (cheap, easy, hassle free). You may answer here or PM.

A BIG THANK YOU !

SD

santos dumont

8th May 2007, 06:21

What's up guys ? Here's a genuine question, could it be that no one is bothered to answer to this one ?

Waiting....:(

Riso

14th May 2007, 04:07

Hi guys!

First i would like to introduce myself i`m new around and i would like to ask a couple of questions.

having got all licenses by ICAO PPL,CPL,ATP(Frozen) 200 TT what would be the following steps to convert to a UK JAR Licence ? I would have to convert all licences since PPL ? or Just the ATPL ?

thanks!!

Best regards !!

Whirlygig

14th May 2007, 06:24

Not wishing to sound harsh but a frozen ATPL is not a licence, it is theory credits; therefore, the only licence you need to convert is the CPL.

You would need to sit the JAA ATPL exams (and, I believe, undergo structured tuition) and have flying training sufficient that you would pass the CPL skills test.

Google for LASORS 2007 - Section D.1.5 applies.

Cheers

Whirls

Stanziel

14th May 2007, 11:59

Whirlygig is right, you have to convert your CPL and take the ATPL theory.

Bristol Flying Centre know a lot about converting :ok:, so I am sure they can advise you about what to do.

Atlantic Flight Centre has some information on their website, and I think they have a package to convert.

The minimum cost for converting your CPL at Bristol is £1300 but that depends on how much flying you need.

I think you may be excempt from maybe a few hundred hours of study for your ATPL, but you still need to take all 14 exams :{, and I am pretty sure you need structured tuition like Whirlygig said.

Good luck

flybyshark

14th May 2007, 17:19

I converted my kiwi cpl to jaa just over a year ago. You will need to do the ATPL course, Bristol ground school probably best if you can home study, I did mine full time at cabair but have friends that did Bristol and they sailed through it no probs, apart from biting their finger nails of at results time! I hear London Mets ground school is good too and its full time, but the Bristol material is A1 and done on the PC.

The flying is the most expensive bit, not just in money but in TIME. A friend on my ground school went to LFS in Leeds and did it exactly same structure as me at Cabair but he got it done in a month and I took 4 months to do 30 hours of flying! He was pretty much the only student at the time doing it, I was swallowed up in the pack and it was not a pleasant experience.

The bones of it are: 15 hours training on both the CPL and ME/IR minimum, it can be split up between sim and plane anyways the school wants based on your ability and progress i.e. 5 sim, 10 plane and this can include the actual test. It can be 6 months for the ground school and if you can in the meantime do the flight conversion also, if not then tag another month on the end. This applies if you have found a school that will focus on getting you done in the time frame they sold you on though, its your call. My friend even had a week of bad weather during his!

Another thing to think of is this: Is your Multi rating current? I had to do mine in the UK as I had done my kiwi icao me/ir test just over a year before I did the conversion test here! So had to do multi rating before my test. another expense.

Good luck with it. I went through it all then went to Africa to get work!

Riso

15th May 2007, 02:53

Ok thank you guys!!

lovethefreight

26th May 2007, 13:55

Does anyone have any ideas on how to convert an ICAO CPL to a JAA ATPL??

I've completed all 14 JAA ATPL (A) subjects, hold 7000+ hours but I've just recieved a letter from those :mad: at the UK CAA that I need to complete an Skills test and an instrument rating? They said that conversion terms are on a like for like basis.

Can anyone enlighten me on what else I will need to do and how i would do it???

:ugh:

ITFC1

26th May 2007, 16:00

Check your PM's, have just noticed, your 21 and have 7000 hours, is that a bit of a typing error

alexi

30th May 2007, 06:44

Hi
Ive read almost all the thread, and I know there is a search button but I would like to ask personally.
I currently hold a Faa Cpl with ME/IR, and I was informed Pilot Training college of ireland has a license conversion course.
I dont care about if its difficult or not, I mean, I think if you want to be an airline pilot you must be ready to face challenges.
I wanted to know about sitting the 14 exams, how does the system work, do you have to pass all of them with a specific %, and what does each exams usually consist of?
Thanks and hope you can help

BestAviation

30th May 2007, 11:08

Alexi,
when you convert from FAA (or any ICAO certificate) to JAA you start with the 14 exams first. This can be done either as a distance learning course or as a residential course. Either way plan to spend from 8 months to a year on it. Classroom may save you a few months of study time and is a great option if you're not the most disciplined - it is allot of material to study!

You can find a list of ground school courses in the UK here - http://www.bestaviation.net/uk/

The 14 exams are multiple-choice and require a 75% pass mark. Exams are conducted once a month and it is normal to split the exam sittings in two or three (sitting 5-7 exams each time). Each sitting takes 3-5 days.

Once you have passed all the 14 exams (try not to fail any - organizing a re-sit can take a couple of months...) it's time to do the JAA CPL conversion.

The CPL conversion is "training as required". Most places will quote you 5 hours and unless you're really current you will probably fly the five hours. The CPL skill test is done in a complex aircraft and there are a few differences in what they look for in the skill test that you need to be aware off.

Once you have your CPL you do your ME/IR conversion. Technically this is training as required with a minimum of 15 hours but many spend more than this. The major reason is the difference in operational procedures in Europe. You do more NDB stuff, ATC is a bit tougher to deal with (they're not as friendly as in the states) and transition altitude is 3000 feet as opposed to 18000' in the states. The IR skill test is done in a multi engine aircraft.

After your ME/IR you do an MCC course. This is not a pass/fail course. An MCC course normally takes two weeks and is done in a simulator. The purpose is to teach you how to operate in a multi crew environment.

Once all this is completed - about a year to 16 months from when you started......it's time to start applying for an airline and saving up the rest of your money (if you still have any).

Hope this was of any help. Good Luck!

alexi

30th May 2007, 15:41

Thanks it does help :ok:
The other question I have, if I get a JAA license in Britain or Ireland is it valid in all the other european countries unrestricted?

BestAviation

30th May 2007, 15:51

In all the other JAA countries - yes

Jez_G

30th May 2007, 18:29

Best Aviation,
That was a great post, summed up all of the information that took me ages to assimilate through searching and reading tonnes of stuff on this website.
Great work!!
Jez

Linthorst

5th Jun 2007, 07:48

Hi there, im having my JAA Private license,, and im planing to continue doing my IR CPL in canada,,, any one knows what should i do to convert it? and any recomended school in Canada.
Thanks.

flz

5th Jun 2007, 11:52

Hi there

If it is A Canadian Lic you require, I can recommend Pro IFR in Vancouver. There web address is proifr.com. Or if you want to convert that back to JAR Moncton Flight College NB.:) but IR needs to be done in Europe IE JAA state. I competed my JAR Exams with Cabair Bournemouth (recommend them) and am converting my Lic back to JAR. fLYING to Van 2morrow drop me a line if any questions be glad to help

Best wishes

flz:)

tingtang

11th Jun 2007, 08:55

Hi All

I recently failed the initial Class 1 medical at Gatwick as I am short sighted and i was just outside the limits. I will pass the class 1 renewal so my only option (which I know of) to fly commercially in the UK lies with getting FAA qualified and then coming back to the UK and converting to JAA. I am already UK PPL qualified.

The issue I have now is that I am finding it difficult to find a website or document which sets out in black and white the process I would have to go through. Can someone point me in the right direction, or write below what I would need to do?

As I understand it, I would have to go to the US and get qualified to US ATP standard, and then come back to the UK and and do the CPL/IR/ATPL exams/check flights/necessary hours.

When would I go for the CAA Class 1 medical at Gatwick?

This isn't my preferred route of becoming a pilot, but from what I have seen, it can work out to be cheaper than doing it all in the UK. Is this true?

Also, would I be able to do something similar in Australia, and then come back to the UK? I have looked at the Oz medical standards and it would seem my eyes would not cause a problem.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I love flying!

Cheers

Will

Jaguar Pilot

11th Jun 2007, 11:39

It's all in LASORS.

Alternatively 'phone an an approved groundschool, or PM me.

vivaespain

11th Jun 2007, 12:37

here's the process for you, since there's a lot of people doing this at the moment.

1. Do the 14 exams, either first or at the same time as flight training (if you can handle the load)

2. Go to Florida and get your FAA commercial multi with instrument.

You should at this point about 270 hours.

3. Then get the CPL ME conversion there as well. Naples Air Centre, FlyOft and FlyEft do them. (i recommend contacting Mark at Naples. He will give you the best guidance)

4. Fly to the UK (emphasis on UK. DO NOT CONSIDER MALAGA!)
Get your IR there. PFT in Bournemouth has the lowest price i've researched. 4500 GBP including 170A/skills test and landing and appch fees.

5. Jump over to the CAA in Gatwick and enjoy the tons of paperwork.

roxar

11th Jun 2007, 15:29

hi all..
im gonna taking cpl,ir,me,and atpl at wa aviation college..
any comment about that FS?..
and after finish that course can i convert to JAA'?...
thanks,
roxar

jonnyboy102

11th Jun 2007, 23:40

Ting Tang.

This situation has actually helped you out quite a lot beacause what vivaespain has described is probably the cheapest and best way of completing your training. It's probably the route I'll be taking anyway!

Good luck, Jon.

tingtang

12th Jun 2007, 07:47

Thanks very much guys for your help.

Couple more things:

1) To sit the ATPL exams, do you have to attend an authorised course in the UK?

2) Am I correct in thinking that if you pass the ATPL exams, you then have 36 months to go and pass the UK CPL?

i.e. I would have to:
- attend a course in the UK to do the ATPL exams
(then in the next 36 months)
- go and get FAA ATP certified in the US
- either convert to JAA CPL is the US or UK
- Do the IR in the UK (could do with the JAA CPL if not already done in the US)
- Do the ATPL skill test in the UK

Would I, after i'm FAA ATP certified, be able to come straight back to the UK and do an ATPL conversion course and get everything done in one hit?

Finally, at what stage do I go to Gatwick to go and pass my class 1 JAA medical on renewal limits?

Thanks for the help again and sorry if any of this stuff is obvious.

Will

biaeghh

12th Jun 2007, 09:49

I think you will find Professional Air Training at Bournemouth are actually cheaper than PFT, they also have the added bonus of having aircraft always an advantage in the flight training industry.

;)

wdaniel

13th Jun 2007, 00:13

well , recently back in the airplane,
you should consider before any training and spend you money, where you want to fly and which type of airplane......
let me know

tingtang

14th Jun 2007, 12:58

I want to fly based from the UK. But I can't start my training in the UK since I can't get the initial class 1 medical. Therefore I have to start in the US and then move back to the UK.

Can anyone help on my questions above?

Will

Neo_RS14

14th Jun 2007, 13:14

I'm a bit confused as to how you will negate the JAA Class 1 med. by going to the US and coming back here to convert it, they will just make you take a full JAA class 1 initial won't they?

From what you've written, it seems you're implying because you have the FAA CPL-ME/IR, class 1 etc, they don't do the JAA medical as an initial back at Gatwick, is that correct?

tingtang

14th Jun 2007, 13:27

Thats exactly what i'm saying. But there isn't much info on this anywhere which is why i put this post on the forum. I want to know if anyone has done this or come accross this.

Perhaps the guys at the CAA said it to me because i was so close to the limits that they will pass me in the circumstances i describe above. I'm not sure and i'm waiting for them to get back to me.

ckthepilot

14th Jun 2007, 15:06

You might get a restricted 1st Class medical if anything...

Neo_RS14

14th Jun 2007, 15:49

@tingtang....Fair enough mate, I wish you all the best with it...let us know of any developments.

Cheers.

hugofly

15th Jun 2007, 21:29

tingtang
let me answer some of your questions and give my two cents.

-Authorized course in the UK, for Atpl exam in the UK: YES, unless you have a bunch of multi-pilot commercial time (1500), which is not the case!

-After the ATPL papers, 36 months to complete UK CPL AND Instrument, Yes

-You would need an Faa CPL not ATPL! big difference ( at least 1310 hours less)

-ATPL skill test:confused: please buy or borrow a LASORS, you will get all the answers, once you passed the 14 ATPL papers, passed (whichever way you want) the UK CPL, multi engine rating and instrument rating skill test, you hold a UK JAA Frozen ATPL!!

Last but not least, you want a JAA first class medical!!
-you will need either an initial examination at Gatwick or a JAA first class medical transfered from a Jaa country, like France or Germany (the requirements are the same:JAA!!!) not a medical from the US, you were mislead or misunderstood.
If wannabee are advised to, first pass the first class medical before anything, it is because it is a mandatory stepping stone on your path to professional aviation.
On another hand, it is not unheard of, that high time experienced pilot sometime enjoy a little "favor" in view of their career.

Others before,(i have known a few), have been thought FAA licenses hoping to "arm-twist" the JAA regulation, only to find themselves either in big financial distress or flying in Africa or eastern Asia.
Do not misunderstand my words, i have nothing against flying in those place, to the contrary.
But your original goal is to fly in the UK, so you would be way off-route.

I hope you will get your first class medical ans that you will fulfill your dream.
Have a good flight and be safe.

P.S. how do i know? been there, done that.:

wdaniel

16th Jun 2007, 12:17

hello vivaespain ,
well, a lot to say or to do to every, one....
let start somewhere.
i recently cleared the 14 exams as distant learning with CATS, happy with those guys...at cranfield.
actually in us as flight instructor helping the flight school.... it is so busy , that i jumped from almost nothing to 3000hours and 500 multi...now looking for a job worldwide........

As well as, i'm looking for a flight shool where i can train and pass at least my CPL and or IR......if you have any address i will be happy

my concern is well, guys you have to visualize the world convert is unappropriate now...we should say or use benefit of flight time...and let me explain...( let me know of course if i'm wrong...)
And this is not applying to pilot with a jet rating and appropriate experience..

ok the concept is you do not convert anything....you just have the benefit of flying less hours as you have previous experience form an other country.......
this was my case when the first time from france i went in us and "convert" my private license in FAA license....this is what i think...
and as matter fact it is still the same case when you come in us to fly.....
i know it is funny to say that....but make sure that if you come from another country than UK, you speak english, otherwise you might fail the medical exam...in the eyes tests... he he he ,, so it recently.....

enjoy the lecture......

Hufty

16th Jun 2007, 12:43

I would call or write to the CAA if I were you, just to make sure that you will be tested on their renewal limits off an FAA medical rather than the initial limits. It sounds like too much of a loophole for the CAA to allow this but I may be wrong.

Good luck!

youngskywalker

17th Jun 2007, 11:24

It certainly used to be the case that you would be tested on the renewal standards with an FAA cpl/class one (a friend did just that) but I have a funny feeling that this loop hole has been closed by the Belgrano. Worth checking though.

Good luck

AlexEvans

18th Jun 2007, 00:44

If you find out please please come back and say so, I'm in exactly the same position. I've tried asking this question in the medical forum and the North America forum with no luck.

If I wrote to Gatwick and asked if they would apply renewal limits to a JAR class 1 initial if the candidate already held a newly printed FAA CPL and FAA class 1 medical do you think they would give me a straight answer?

I can hear you all screaming "yes of course they would, stop asking medical questions on an internet site!", but I get the gut feeling they would send me a cut and paste style quick reply that evaded the question.

What say you?

tingtang

18th Jun 2007, 07:44

Hi

I doubt they will say this by letter. I think they will need to see you and go through the whole medical properly as it depends on how close to the limits you are.

If you really want to go for it, make an appointment and then you will be able to find out. PM me if you want. Sounds like we might be in the same position.

Will

AlexEvans

20th Jun 2007, 02:13

It would be nice to know before investing the money in an FAA CPL/IR though.

It's a big gamble if you want to fly for a living in the UK.

VFR-Seek and Destroy

20th Jun 2007, 04:36

There was (and still is altough it has recently been changed) a flow chart on the CAA website that showed the process of obtaining a Class 1 medical if you already held a medical from another state.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED_Non-UKCl1[2577].pdf

It was the case that if you held a class one from a non JAA state and a CPL then they would test you to renewal standards not the initial standards. They also did not need to do all the tests that they would normally do for the initial issue.

Went down this route last year and CAA were very helpful, they brought it to my attention, actually gave me a partial refund as they did less tests and issued the class 1 certificate to me that day before I left .

ps. I notice that the initial limits for allowable correction have been relaxed from -5/+5 to -6/+5 dioptres.

pps. speak to the CAA, they are very helpful and will explain the options that may be open to you if you do not meet the initial standards that will result in you obtaining an unrestricted class 1 medical.

alexi

20th Jun 2007, 17:53

Is there a limit of times you can fail an exam??

ckthepilot

21st Jun 2007, 04:25

I believe it's 4 times and then if you fail more than that you have to re-sit all your exams.

alexi

21st Jun 2007, 09:52

Thanks, well if you fail 4 times, 1, you are probably not studying, or 2 this career is simply not for you...

TelBoy

28th Jun 2007, 20:05

The FAA class 1 with CPL to JAA class 1 medical at renewal standards seems to be a thing for much interest.

From a personal view point I am interested as I have passed the FAA colour vision tests, but failed our own UK tests, so cannot get an unrestricted JAA class 1.

The standards are a bit misleading as if you hold an FAA class 1 medical AND CPL you could until the end of last year get an "extended" renewal standards for a CAA class 1 issue.

The "extended" is stated as

"A full initial JAR class 1 examination, less the EEG and the chest X-RAY. The examination will be to JAR revalidation/renewal standards"

This seems a bit odd as if you took my case, then renewal standards do not include colour vision tests, but if you take it as an initial minus the EEG and chest X-ray then it would include them??? The CAA have however now taken this from their website and as far as I'm aware do not give ANY creditation for an FAA medical or experience. (isn't the ICAO a great thing!)

Now from next year the EASA will have authority over medical issues and this will be built into Europen law. How this will affect pilots who have marginal medical problems we will need to see. However there are a group of us who wish to work WITH the CAA to present our case to the EASA so that sensible consideration can be taken for us. We will see if this ever happens of course. If anyone wants more info please PM me.

mmears83

9th Jul 2007, 07:36

I am currently about to start my licence conversion from FAA CPL/IR to JAA CPL/IR and whilst looking around have heard a rumour about a loophole in Poland which makes it cheaper and less timely. I also heard there was similar loophole by doing it in Ireland a couple of years back in Ireland until the JAA shut that one down, can anyone please advise if they know anything about this or if they have found something similar. Regards

kd2473

9th Jul 2007, 08:39

If you find one, please let me know!

captainyonder

31st Jul 2007, 14:37

I'm about to undertake my FAA to JAA IR conversion, I have 150 hours experience of flying in the UK, nearly all VFR, the rest of my flight time has all been conducted in the US. The flight school I am doing my conversion with have allocated 10 hours in the sim and only 5 hours in the actual aircraft for the conversion plus the 2 hours for the test. I must confess I'm slightly concerned as to whether 5 hours in the UK airways will be enough for test despite the fact my actual instrument flying is absolutely fine?

Does anyone have any experience of doing the conversion and can it actually be done in such a small number of hours?

If this proves to be as worryingly difficult as I think it may be then I might change my plans, forget the whole one stop modular thing and come back to the UK for a full IR.

Canadapilot

1st Aug 2007, 17:18

Ill be converting my CPL/IR to JAA next year, and the schools i have looked at all pretty much say the same...10hrs Sim. 5 hrs flying + test. In any case, they won't put you up for the test if you're not ready so if it takes a few more hours then at least your concerns will be resolved.

negativeROC

1st Aug 2007, 20:14

Hi. I teach JAR ME/IR in the UK and have taught a number of FAA conversions. Most schools will quote the UK CAA minimums of 5 hours aircraft, 10 hours sim, as, to say more, would make them appear uncompetative. However, although it depends a lot on how good and how current you are, my experience is of 20 to 30 hours total to convert is more typical. This comes about mainly because, as I understand it (I have never flown in the land of the free) you do not fly NDB procedures on test in the US. In the UK you currently have to fly a single engine NDB hold and a single engine NDB approach, no quarter given! Hope this helps.

portsharbourflyer

1st Aug 2007, 21:49

If you are low houred ie: have the bare minimum of an FAA CPL IR, then yes you will certainly need more than five hours in the aircraft. Realistically the individuals I have known to take this route seem to take anything from 20 to 30 hours to convert the FAA IR to the JAA IR.

However as I have mentioned in previous posts it is quite useful to have both FAA and JAA ratings, the FAA IR will allow you to work on N registered aircraft in the UK.

davey147

1st Aug 2007, 22:05

It depends what standard of training you have had in the US, most of the people who convert FAA IR to JAA at my local school are generally ready for the test in less than 5 hours aircraft and 10 hours sim, its plenty of time.

Just make sure you get high standard training in the states otherwise it'll take you longer to convert.

CleverK1

7th Aug 2007, 22:10

Hello

I'm about converting my FAA CPL into an JAA CPL. As I don't have more than 1500 hours...I wonder what hours do count for the license conversion. I did a search but couldn't find a satisfiing answer:

1) Theory: I have to do all the 14 exams. This can be done by distance learning, which takes some time...but shouldn't be a problem.

2) Practical: I need at least 200 hours...but what hours do count?
2.1 You can log solo flight time..of course
2.2 You can't log Safety Pilot time
2.3 Can you log PIC time, when you flew together with an instructor? As it seems it hast to be an accredited course. If it is FAA accredited (Part 141)...is it also OK for the JAA?
2.4 Can you log your PIC "under the hood" time when flying together with a safety pilot?
2.5 Can you log the PIC time as a flight instructor when instructing a new PPL FAA student? What is if this guy logs himself SPIC?
2.6. Can you log the PIC time as a flight instructor when instructing an IFR student "under the hood"
2.5 Can you log SIC time on a turbo-twin that is multi-crew required under JAA rules and will this count towards the 200 hours?

It would be great if somebody could answer my questions...or could tell me where to find the answer. I read LASORS...but don't know much more now.

Thanks in advance
George

Tomasz

9th Aug 2007, 11:17

I have a question regarding converting a multi-engine rating to a JAA one, I read you just do about 1.5 hours in a twin, is there a skill test invalid, and do I also have to pay for an examier, 671 pounds?

7E7Flyer

12th Aug 2007, 16:54

Hi, just finished my conversion from FAA. Stand to be corrected, but here's my 2 eurocents' worth (and I strongly suggest you check that with your relevant CAA):
1) Correct. A pain though and does take some time. Read the books through just once and then put all your effort in practicing question banks again and again.
2.1 Yes
2.2 No, time while you were the safety pilot doesn't count a penny in JAA-land.
2.3 No. Under JAA it is either dual (with instructor) OR PIC. The only exception is SPIC (student pilot in command), where the student acts as PIC under the supervision of an instructor. This only applies to JAA integrated courses though, so not possible having done FAA training, whether the school was 141 or not. Note though, that any PIC time logged for checkrides (with a pass) does count as PIC under the JAA rules as well.
2.4 Yes and it is probably ok experience for most airlines, BUT (AND A BIG BIG CAUTION HERE): It does NOT count when you apply for a JAA licence! Reason being that the CAA views any time under the hood as P/UT (pilot under training) therefore can't be PIC, but it was neither with an official instructor. So this time simply doesn't exist for the CAA. Very dangerous if you applying for your JAA License with just a little over 200 FAA hours, as you might simply not meet the requirements (incl Cross Country PIC etc). This nearly caught me out, but luckily I had enough 'proper' hours having instructed in the U.S. for a while.
2.5 Yes. You are PIC any time you're bearing the full responsibility for the flight (exception as detailed in 2.4). In the FAA world a new PPL wouldn't log SPIC. If at a later stage (CPL training etc) he logs PIC and Dual Received at the same time, the instructor still remains in command.
2.6 Yes, see 2.5. And if you're flying in actual IMC, you can also log the approach and FAA instrument time (not if you're in VMC). If you're flying under an IFR plan, you can log all time as IFR PIC even for the JAA.
2.7 Definitely check that one with the CAA, but I think only if that plane was requiring a second pilot under the FAA rules as well (not the case for even some Citations!). In any case, you would probably need to hold a relevant type rating to claim hours for the JAA. In the FAA world a type rating is not required in any airplane while acting as SIC in U.S. domestic airspace.
Hope this helps and good luck
7E7