Licence Conversion to JAA

[Riso]

Hi guys i would like to find out where can i do the FAA-JAA conversion in europe and how much would that cost for me ?

Happy Landings !

[Savage_UK]

Hi

Apologies all if this is an old/already covered topic but here goes:

I'm in the middle of completing a CPL MEIR in New Zealand and at the end of the year will be returning to good ol' Blighty to convert it to a JAA licence.

Clearly realising now that I should have researched all this a bit more thoroughly before trekking half way round the world, but having had a dozen or so conversations with different flying schools my understanding has amounted to this:

NZ CAA CPL Licence converts automatically to a UK JAA PPL Licence and no requirement for any further flight tests/theory exams are required. The day I land back on UK soil I can theoretically go flying in UK airspace (subject to medical etc etc).
To convert my NZ CPL to a UK CPL I need to pass a flight test (which incorporates both cross country and general skills) and also sit the 6 CPL exams: Air Law, Human Factors, Air Tech, Met, PofF and Nav.
To convert the Multi Engine Instrument Rating it is then a minimum of 15 hours of flying that must be done in the UK.
Whilst all this is happening, most people start their ATPL papers (14 in total). Once those are passed I end up with a shiny new JAA frozen ATPL.
With this I can go to the airlines, have them laugh in my face at my pathetic 300 hours (mainly on PA38s) but hopefully get a job in a right hand seat, building up to 1500hrs.Any one able to confirm/correct/expand on the above please? Any clarification greatly received at this point as my brain is about to go into meltdown.

Also if anyone has actually been down this route I'd be interested to hear how it worked out for you/where you went for the conversion & rough costs etc.

Cheers.

[zooom]

As I read JAA says:

An applicant for a JAR-FCL licence and IR, if applicable, already holding at least an equivalent licence issued in accordance Annex 1 by a non-JAA State (let's say FAA) shall meet all the requirements of JAR-FCL, except that the requirements of course duration, number of lessons and specific training hours may be reduced.

I have PPL with JAA ATPL theory, so my question is:

If I come to JAA member state with FAA CPL(A) IR,ME what I will have to do to get the same JAA licence?

[gmac1977]

Hi Zooom

FAA CPL-JAA CPL= hours as required.
FAA IR - JAA IR= 15 hour conversion

not including skill tests

:ok:

[zooom]

Under CPL, what do you mean with "hours are required" ?
This 15 IFR hours are requirements for UK JAA or all JAA states?

And what about ME rating?

Thanks!

[gmac1977]

IR has a mandatory 15 hour conversion but the CPL doesnt. They only wish to demonstrate the ability to fly to JAA standards, Thus hours as required.
Do both conversions on a multi and that will give you a JAA Multi CPL/IR

:ok:

[KingAir77]

Hi all,
the requirements as laid out by gmac are UK JAA. The funny thing about JAR FCL is that they differ in every member country. The differences just have to be small enough to be acceptable to the JAA Commitee. Back to our conversion issue, this means that in some countries (I know it's the case in Germany), you need to go to an FTO, which then has to recommend a customized training programme for you. The Authority then has to agree to that programme, and then only you cab start flying. Basically, the UK did a great job by clearly laying out the framework in which conversions take place, and would be the logic choice to convert there. The licence you have will be a UK licence, but it can be used in any JAA member state.

[crap pilot]

Does anybody know what is required to go from JAA CPL/IR to an FAA CPL/IR?

[paul k]

dig this... has there been any similar cases of:

1. complete jaa fatpl training in lets say, greece
2. you decide you want to work un u.k.
3. you try to get your greek jaa fcl validated by the caa
4. caa says, you must do all 14 caa exams

pk

[zooom]

So basically JAA FTO looks into difference between FAA and JAA program and makes proposal solution which CAA can conditionally accept ?

[KingAir77]

Hi zoom,
sorry for the late reply, I've been on the road for a while. Yup, essentially that is what would happen in Germany. BUT: understand what JAA license means: It means a license has a certain standard, and is mutually recognized by all member states without formalities. The way to obtain the license can differ slightly from state to state, and it does. These differences were filed with and approved by the JAA commitee when JAR FCL was introduced. So REALLY LOOK into where you want to convert, it needs NOT be the country that you plan to work in. I would go through the UK, since the conversion of FAA to JAA licenses is clearly set in the rules there (check out the online copy of LASORS) Having a tailored training programme set up will take quite a bit of time while the paperwork is done, but you will not get away with less hours. ( after all the FTO make their money with selling you hours...)
@Paul_K
the scenario you describe does not work. If you have a license from a JAA member state that is delivered according to JAR FCL, you need no validation, recognition or anything to work in another memberstate. What might happen is that you are talking about a NATIONAL license delivered in a JAA member state that is not delivered according to JAR FCL, but to their old national standards. In this case, the way to go is to convert the National License to a JAA License in the country where it was originally issued. That should not entail much more then an Air Law exam. With that new JAA license, you will be able to fly G-registered aircraft without any other formality.

[cypilot77]

Is there any country in Europe that you can convert your FAA CPL to JAA CPL without taking the 14 written exams? or at least some of them??

[Trolle]

Yes...if you have 500 hours in a required MULTI-CREW environment...as far as I know. I have been researching this topic on and off for some time. I only scored 100 hours on an RJ before being furloughed so I too much take all the written exams. Sorry mate, there is no way around it. I managed to get a national conversation for my licenses but it was only valid for one year and I had to find an airline job which did not happen.

[cypilot77]

How do you get a national conversation? Can i just go in Greece for example and ask them for a conversation? And if you get it, can you actually use it and work with it?

[Trolle]

I got the national conversion from the national authorities. I suppose it is possible to work with it, but I think most carriers would be reluctant to hire you. You do not have the training about European nuances. If the choice is between a fully certified JAA applicant and one with a fresh national conversion, even with more hours, I think the carrier would take the JAA applicant. Probably easier and less paperwork for them. The conversion was only valid for one year and there was a limit to the number of time I could renew it. So, it wasn't useful at all.
I remembered this as well. My local CAA has approved that an applicant with an FAA commercial and IR has the possibility to get credit for some written exams. The problem is that an FTO has to determine your level of efficiency and create a personalized training program for you. No FTO I spoke to was willing to do this because it means less money in their pocket and more work for them. I was basically told, "We need to give you a test to determine your level of knowledge. It will cost you 800 euros and you probably won't pass. If you don't pass you must take the entire course." So, it was basically an 800 euro fee to decide if I had to the a full course for nearly 8,000 euros. Needless to say, I passed on that.

I have been trying to locate the smallest possible bypass to taking all the writtens. As a CFI I was reluctant to pay for all the training again and the exams. Although it is theoretically possible to go around this hurdle, it is practically very difficult, if not impossible. Get yourself 500 hours in a two-person crew on a multi (flying with a safety pilot in a twin does not count) or prepeare yourself for the JAA written exams. One option is to go to the US and do the JAA training there. Then you get the lower prices and can take an FAA exam too.

[AlphaMale]

One option is to go to the US and do the JAA training there. Then you get the lower prices and can take an FAA exam too.

But not the JAA IR.

[Trolle]

That's right, the JAA IR must be done in the EU. And this may also be a additional reason why a carrier would be reluctant to hire a converted FAA IR. The only real main differences I see between the FAA and JAA are the IR procedures.

[AlphaMale]

And this may also be a additional reason why a carrier would be reluctant to hire a converted FAA IR

Are you saying I would be at a disadvantage to getting employment if I went to the states? Looking to do my FAA CPL / IR convert my CPL to JAA while out there and then convert my FAA IR to a JAA Multi-IR here in the UK or in Spain?

Puzzled :bored:

[Trolle]

I was implying that you might be at a disadvantage if you got your FAA license converted nationally; meaning that you did not sit the JAA exams but got a conversion from the national authorities.

You would not be at a disadvantage if you did the entire JAA conversion.

I do not understand clearly the order in which you want to convert your license. If I could do my training again I would go to a JAA-approved school in the US. While there you can do the FAA CPL/IR on your own. There is only one written exam for each license, rather than a handful in the EU.

[727Man]

2003 FAA PPL CPL Multi IR
2004 14 JAA Exams
2006 UK JAA Frozen ATPL

Im afraid their is no way around it, just face it and get on with it as I realized back then. If you really want to fly in Europe it is the only way. what a pain in the :mad: it was!

If you get some exemptions then you will have an endorsement on your JAA license, then be restricted to which countries aircraft you can fly. Good luck to all!

[Trolle]

727Man, are you now exercising the privledges bestowed upon you with your ATPL? A 727 maybe? Curious how the market treated you with a newly minted license.

[727Man]

Trolle, that blue license is collecting dust at the moment! but not for long, been in the back of th 72 since. had to do it cause I would of been wondering could I have done it the rest of my life, its all over and done, with great releif:ugh::) it is what they say right place right time, my time will come working for a well known operator.

[KingAir77]

Hi guys, don't get confused about the 500 hours multicrew. These will allow you to get a validation limited to one year for an ATPL(as was the case with Trolle). The same requirements applies to a JAA frozen ATPL holder, he will only get a full unrestricted ATPL when he can show these 500 hours.

A national license (the "cheap" way of converting) will always put you behind in the queue when people get hired, unless you have lots of experience (and we're not talking a few hours, put that closer to 5000 hours jet command...), so if you don't have that, save yourself the time and direct your efforts towards studying JAA theory. Also, you will only be able to fly aircraft registered in the country where the license was issued, and a carrier from a different country will not even consider you. because they will get problems to renew your type rating (their instructors are not allowed to sign your national license, all the stuff has to be sent in to the issuing Countrys CAA, and it will take about 2 weeks before you get a license with a renewed TR back. Not productive for a company....)

So what is left is a full JAA license, and the only credit you can get for JAA theory based on a foreign license is that with enough experience, you do not have to sit a ground course, but you can try the exam straight away. Still all the subjects that is. Credit can be given based on other education, eg. an aerospace engineer might get credit for aerodynamics, but he will have a harder time applying for the credit then just taking the exam since he knows the subject so well.
So guys, as 727man said, really, just face it and start studying. You cab save a lot of money going via an FAA license and then converting to JAA, but the effort required will be the same.

[BG101]

Hello good peoples,
I'm new to PPRuNe, and was wondering if anybody out there with infinite wisdom can help me with my question?
I hold an ICAO license, with just over 1,000 hours, and want to convert to JAR in the mid-term future.
I have a JAR class 1 from the IAA. My question is this, can I use my IAA class 1, combined with UK CAA (looking at bristol) ATP exams, and flight training from one of the cheaper European countries ( I'm thinking Greece / Spain etc) and combine them all together to get my JAR license? Or do I have to do all the training (ie. medical, theory, flight training) within the confines of one European country?:ugh:
Any insight greatly appreciated. I'm sorry if this thread has already been posted / discussed? If it has, please direct me to it!
Cheers,
B.:}

[Adios]

BG101,
I'm pretty sure you have to do it under the authority of a single JAR member state. It's easy to convert an IAA JAR-FCL Class 1 to a UK CAA JAR-FCL Class 1. This page tells you how to do it: http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=2576
You will need a payment form for the £22 fee, which you can get here: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=2090

[BG101]

Hi Adios,

Thanks for your help and speedy reply. I was thinking that this might be the case, but just wanted to get some insight into it first.
Personally, I would rather do the UK ATP subjects and flight training elsewhere as discussed.

Thanks again,

B.:ok:

[IRISHPILOT]

Hello, there are not many places where you can do that. - Intercockpit is one of them, you do the Bristol ground school, then flying in Croatia.
A couple of countries where you can do all in English apart from the UK.
good luck! IP

[BG101]

Thanks IP for your help. I am searching them out right now. Have also PM'd you. Cheers,

B.

[Finals19]

My question is this, can I use my IAA class 1, combined with UK CAA (looking at bristol) ATP exams, and flight training from one of the cheaper European countries ( I'm thinking Greece / Spain etc) and combine them all together to get my JAR license? Or do I have to do all the training (ie. medical, theory, flight training) within the confines of one European country?

As I understood it, if you write the ATPLs in a member state, you are obliged to do the CPL skills test in the same state. There are some FTO's with exceptions to that, but if you are modular, you aren't able to switch between countries like you want to do (above) The IR can be done in any member state and converted onto your country licence as its only a rating and not a licence in itself.

[CaptainKC]

Hi Folks,

I would like to start a thread on this subject as I am considering the cost savings or is this a myth?

10k Dollars for a CPLJAA with FAA single IR (EFT) for example
2k Dollars for the Multi rating
End result CPL Multi with single FAA IR

Not sure about the rest ie

How much will a conversion cost for example in Spain? The requirement seems to be 15hr course 10 of which can be in a sim. Would this give me a CPL Multi IR JAA licence

I would like to hear from anyone who has information and especially anyone has done this to completion. Is this the long way round, or a cheap and nasty way round. I look forward to replies.

Thanks
CPTKC:ok:

[madlot]

I think that's a great idea for a thread....Costs and pathways to converting FAA CPL / IR to JAA CPL/IR or ATPL.

I bet there's a bunch of people out there, like me, that would like to hear from anyone who has actually done,or attempted the conversion.

Because looking at previous questions there seem to be lots that are maybe considering it.

What did it actually cost you ie including running into any extra hours above the minimum specified in LASORS for either the CPL or IR or multi components of it all due to proficiency/ currency or other issues.

Where did you do it ? Etc etc http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon5.gifhttp://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon5.gifhttp://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon5.gifPlease do share your experience as they say.

[farisjet]

YOU will pay the Europian price but you will do most the flying in the US...How Ironic:D:D:D

[CaptainKC]

Please expand on this statement! I would like this thread to be productive and informative. The information I have gathered is as follows for anyone who may wish to commenet constructively, or share experience

EFT Florida are offering FAA IR 40hrs C172 and JAA CPL 10hrs C172 5hrs PA28R 9,999 Dollars add a Multi Rating 6hrs Duchess for 2,200 Dollars
Round up to 15k Dollars
Time to complete approx 6-8 weeks
Convert the FAA IR in Aerodynamics to JAA Multi IR for 6k Euros round figure
Time to complete 2-3 weeks
Total 16,000 Euros

This seems to be a very competitive option to end up with a JAA CPL Multi IR

I look forward to some feedback, pros and cons, anyone actually done it this way??????????????

Cheers
Cpt KC

[AlphaMale]

Cpt KC,

Your plan looks very much like the course OFT offer?

Phase 1
FAA Private Pilots

JAA ATPL Ground School - 24 Weeks

Phase 2
FAA Instrument Rating

Phase 3
Structured Hours Building

Phase 4
JAA Multi Commercial

Ground Instructor Time (50 Hrs)

So I wouldn't say you're doing anything new? But I can see the benefit and have thought of this route myself.

I did think of doing:

PPL with EFT/OFT

fly home

ATPL exams with BGS while in full time work and earning

fly back out there

FAA IR with OFT
JAA Multi-CPL with OFT

fly home

Convert my FAA IR to a JAA Multi-IR with Cabair (or in Spain - Aerodynamics).

Apply for the sponsored Instructor route at Cabair and work there for a year or two.

I could still do the above but I'm trying to look at as many different routes as possible. (looks like Cabair has pulled the plug on the sponsored FI but there are alternatives I'm sure).

[ballyboley]

Slightly off topic, but thought I'd give it a go -

I'm training with Oxford doing my Integrated ATPL i.e. CPL/IR/MCC etc
As part of their requirement to train in the US, I've done a FAA PPL while out here, but my CPL will only have a Multi Engine class rating when I return to the UK, which obviously does not cover single light aircraft.
My question is, to fly flight aircraft should I -

a) Convert the FAA ppl to a JAA ppl - I have already done all the ATPL ground so I'm assuming these exams satisfy the need to take any PPL ground exams? Is there anything else I'd need to do for this route?
b) Get a single engine class rating put on my CPL ratings by a CAA examiner - what is involved here? Is it simply a bit of paper I get one of them to sign while doing another checkride in a single engine a/c or is there more to it?
I will also be doing the IR in multi - will that cover me to fly singles IR or is it a seperate single engined IR required as well?


Many thanks for any assistance in advance
Dave

[ChicagoHeights]

Hi this is what I'm doing......I working on the 14 atpl exams, which is a crazy amount of info (I hear the dutch are to blame for this), once this is completed I need to find a crj-200 sim somewhere in Europe and hopefully that will be my unfrozen atpl, I don't fly the 700 series all that much to have 3000 plus time in a aircraft over 30,000 kg's so that's my path

[-IBLB-]

Bally,

Unless you need it for a specific reason, I wouldn't worry about the single engine stuff. You certainly don't need it to get a job at flying big stuff here.

If you want to have a SEP, just take the checkride, no need for anything else I think.

[Skysurfer1]

:DHello,
Wondering if anyone who can recommend a good school in England, in which I can do a CPL conversion. Also I need to get my IR and find it mind blowing the cost to get it done!

Anyone done the Bristol.gs distant learning program for JAR ATPL and if so, can you tell me what you think of the program. Pros/cons.

Thanks!
Skysurfer

[Mikehotel152]

A mate converted his Canadian Licence at Cabair.

I'm doing Bristol GS. If you can work full-time and discipline yourself to study as though you were attending groundschool, go for it because the materials, support and system is very highly thought of.

[ballyboley]

Squawkvfr, im past PT1 now (FAA course so couldn't use the CAA guys), but hoping to do the single engine rating as part of PT2 perhaps?
I know there's no need for a single rating but I still want to fly singles for pleasure back in the UK.
Does anyone know if the Seneca IR covers you for both single's and twins or do you need to do a seperate instrument rating for the single?

Many thanks

[Cobalt]

The IR covers both SE and ME instrument flying if you do the course & test in a ME aeroplane - assuming you have the appropriate class or type rating

[Avyator]

I got my FAA CPL IR ME and would like to convert this to JAA CPL IR ME. I'm planning to start with bristol groundschool distance learning. I'm wondering if someone can recommend a good school I can to the flying with?

[Lightheart]

Which country do you want your licence issue from?

Irrespective of opinions on here, ALWAYS visit with the proposed school before parting with any cash. Opinions are very subjective and what worked for one may not work for another.

[Avyator]

Well, I have to choose a UK school. since I'm doing my exams in the UK.

[Lightheart]

Side note: Some other States also accept UK exams.


Check out:
Bristol flying Centre
BCFT
BFC

These are in the lower half of the country. Didn't visit any in the "upper" half.

All have good reps and don't show any real "attitude" towards FAA conversions. Some schools aren't so great, such as Stapleford (and I am speaking from experience).

Ask the schools about the differences in flying in the UK as opposed to flying in the US. You'll knpw from the quality of their answers how prepared they are to handle conversion students.

(For you own sake, make sure you know the differences in airspace, RT, manueovers such asdeadside let-downs etc before you begin your conversion).

Good luck.

[123567]

the short answer is - the same procedure as if you had no ATPL.

Look at this link.

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=468

It is for the UK but that is JAA.

PS did you hop into the 737 with only 200 hours?