Iberia on strike

[TE RANGI]

Heard that Iberia pilots went on strike today over pay issues and that some 284 flights were cancelled.

Any comments from the insiders?

[DownIn3Green]

Must be great for Spanair!!!

[Orangewing]

I heard that they were going to strike every tuesday in July and every monday in August. Surely not striking over pay? I thought they were some of the best paid Pilots in the world! More likely striking over the highly limited choice of aircraft types to fly!!!
:) :) :)

[Copenhagen]

They are looking for a pay rise to remember all the aircraft types...

At last check

Long Haul
747
A340
767
DC-8 Freighter
DC-10

Short Haul
757
737
727
A321
A320
A319
A300
DC-9
MD87

Domestic
CRJ-200
ATR-72
Fokker 50

On

[World Traveller]

Erm, don't forget MD-88s and Dash 8's .....

WT Plus.

[INKJET]

Well its not all bad, at least bmi might pick up a few Pxs

[What_does_this_button_do?]

I thought all the DC10's were retired....

[Critical Mach#]

Yes...DC10´s are out and Dash8, CRJ, ATR, F50 are operated by AIR NOSTRUM. B737 operated on wet lease from Air Europa, DC8 operated by Cygnus Air.

Rgds

CM

[Angostura]

Only hearsay but I've been told that the industrial action is because they want to revert back to the pay and conditions they had a few years ago. Did they take a big cut in the 90's? Anyway good luck to them.

[Secret Squirrel]

Just before you all go leaping to Iberia's defence let me fill you in on some facts.

Firstly the majority of their history has been doggged by typical latin state owned attitudes. Whereas in England government functionaries are called Civil Servants, in Spain they would view this as a slur, considering themselves all (even the lowly desk clerk) above the general populace in standing.

Iberia is a dinosaur with BIG problems of out of date delusions of grandeur. I know some of their pilots and can tell you that one couldn't get further up one's own @rse if one tried. You only have to look at the extensive list of different types of aircraft listed above to see that their business plan is all wrong. Some of these types also have different engines for which a whole new engineering structure is available.

OK, what has this to do with the pilots, not a lot but it is the general ethos within the company that is the underlying factor here. It is populated by father's, sons, daughters, nieces and nephews; nepotism was for years the only way in. The flight crew enjoy some of the best conditions in the world to which you can add their abode. They get picked up from their HOME for god's sake by minibuses; they don't even have to drive to work!!!

95% of the pilots were trained courtesy of the Spanish tax payer either through the military or in their academy in Salamanca. Most didn't even have to pass a selection process; or at least if they did it was but a formality, because even if their score was low, a family member within Iberia would ensure that they jumped the queue anyway.

Most of them have no interest in whether the airline does well or not. They know that as a flag carrier, their job is safe.

------------------
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!

[This message has been edited by Secret Squirrel (edited 22 June 2001).]

[Critical Mach#]

So what.... They have an attitude problem, they have incredible benefits...good for them (by the way, they pay for the minibus pick up), have lots of different aircraft types and a loussy business plan (don´t think they had a choice on that).

The bottom line is that they gave up in salary when things were hard and now that the company is posting record profits for the past four years they want their share back (same as others).

Secret S: this is not an IB´s defence.. I just think that you have missed the point.


Regards

CM

[TE RANGI]

Secret Squirrel,

Very precisely put. Yours is indeed a thoughtful post that hits it right on the nail. Iberia is arguably the most self isolated, inbreeding, boorishly inward looking airline in the world that has its own -different- ways at everything. The fact that no Iberia drivers have replied to this thread clearly attests to this.

Critical Mach,

I'm afraid I cannot agree with you. You just cannot detach salary/working condition demands from a deeply ingrained company culture. The fact that Iberia would have failed long ago hadn't taxpayer money floated it or that Iberia's seniority list resembles a family tree where genes outdo brains is as central here as the demands themselves.

But then OK, we're beating around the bush. What exactly are the rise demands, what's the rationale behind it and what's the current climate now that the company's just been privatised. Would any Iberia insiders care to tell us?

[Secret Squirrel]

I don't think I have missed the point, Crit. I'm sorry but the majority of the pilots there actually think that the airline owes them a living. They have been bailed out again and again.

OK, I will admit that Iberia's troubles are not down to the pilots solely. The other admin staff, the handlers and the managers have an awful lot to answer for.

I don't really care what they gave up; a token gesture in my opinion and one which won't go far enough towards repairing the long term ills of the company. As I said, most of these people are in the company because some relative or other got them in, not because they particularly like the job or take any pride in it.

Spain is full of qualified doctors, lawyers and pilots who have to sweep the streets to live. They are hungry for the chance to exercise their profession and spend years preparing 'oposiciones' (entrance exams) only to be pipped at the post by daddy's girl or boy who probably didn't lift a finger all year. Iberia pilots (for the most part) are no exception and they don't warrant my sympathy, sorry.

------------------
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!

[Critical Mach#]

Secret S

seems to me that the original question had more to do with the stand taken by IB pilots, in line with that taken by other outfits lately, with respect to salary, working conditions and so on and not so much with the social virtues (or lack of) of IB and the flight crews.
May it be that I got the idea wrong to begin with?

It is not for me to comment on your remarks about MOST of IB fellow pilots since those guys are old/big enough to share their thoughts with you if they wished to do so... and if they decided not to...so be it

Rgds

CM

[Capetonian]

'Secret Squirrel' hit the nail on the head with his comments about Iberia, an airline with which I've had involvement both from the inside, and unfortunately as a (full fare) passenger.

The staff think they are Gods - hardly surprising when they are brought up with this attitude. They are arrogant, badly trained, and frequently incompetent. Their attitude is that the airline is run for them as a means of personal transportation for themselves, their families and their friends, and that passengers are a
disruption and a nuisance.

So if they go on strike and the airline loses money and has to be restructured and run on commercial lines, as far as I'm concerned that day can't come soon enough! In the meantime let the decent airlines that serve the same routes pick up Iberia's passengers. Except for Argentina of course where they've screwed Aerolineas Argentinas into the ground and left little choice for passengers.



[This message has been edited by Capetonian (edited 26 June 2001).]

[Non RNAV]

Why are there no replies from any IB pilots? is it because all the statements are true and they are too ashamed to admit to it, or could it simply be that they do not understand any english apart from standard aviation "lingo"?

[TE RANGI]

Non Rnav,

Why indeed! I'd say it has more to do with their language problem. Very few of them must be really ashamed as they are so self isolated that they have very little knowledge of the outside world and so are led to believe that theirs is the "normal" way of running an airline. (Yes, they pretend they run it).

Another possibility is that no Iberia pilots would dare to speak up. In fact their union is so strong that very few of them would ever dare to dissent or take a stand against the instructions given by it. I wonder what percentage of them fully understand the demands or the implications of their industrial actions, yet they show an enviable determination to demonstrate their corporate muscle.

Anyhow, does anybody know what their current demands are and what the likely prospects are?

[B767-300]

I thoght this forum was meant, among other things, to comment and defend our profession. In this particular issue all I see is a lot of personal anger for whatever the reason.
I'm not an IB pilot but I'm stepping forward as an spanish airline pilot supporting IB pilots and their industrial action.
As far as I know they just want back what it was theirs. They had to give up part of their salary five years ago with the promise from the company that it would be returned the moment the airline was in blacks. IB has been profiting for the last four years but it seems like they forgot the promise they made. I don't think what you are saying about them is right and most of the time true, I strongly recommend that you put aside your anger and get a better information about the issue.
By they way , why they should even know that this forum exists?, just to make you happy because then they can answer using the same bad manners as you are?. Maybe they don't want to argue in such a way.
I'm an Spanair pilot and I've nothing to win in this business but guys.....
Fly Safe
J.G.

[Podge]

Spanair....it will make no difference to the, in fact, possibly a better service!!!

Don't they get paid enough, and it that is bad the coach drivers are on strike also so u have one hell of a busy weekend ahead of u!!

[drag required]

Don’t expect to hear much from Iberia pilots, this forum is not well known among the spanish aviation community and if any wished to reply he wouldn’t know how to say it, the English language is not their forte, just listen to them across the Atlantic.

[This message has been edited by drag required (edited 28 June 2001).]

[Charly]

Well, then I have to defend them. I´m not an Ibiria Pilot and I´m not spanish (just Lufthansa and german ;) ).

As our union (german VC) has prepared a benchmark of european pilot sallaries last year, I can tell you the following: They are NOT the best paid! They are average in an european comparison.

Their conditions are great!! Hope they can maintain..

They are striking for 12% more pay.

Big and various fleets, thats true. According to a frind of mine, copilot with Ibiria, they are working on it, a lot of fleets are being closed down the following years.

Don´t mistake "Air europe" with the "mother" Iberia. I´m not 100% sure, but all the smaller types are operated by domestic carriers in Ibiria colours on behalf of Iberia.

....
Just some facts to cool down the thread.

Regards
Charly

[knows]

Charly, thanks - finally good to read some sense on this strange thread!

[spafc130]

i am a spanish pilot but i don't work for iberia.

Drag can you understnad this " no tienes ni idea callate la boca". well until i don't speak other languages i would keep my mouth closed. i can't believe how arrogant you are.

Second . if no iberia pilots reply is because there are hundreds of forums and lots of them in spanish.How many of you have you been in a spanish forum? Until you do it please don't make silly comments.

Finally, don't judge other people like that , may be tomorrow you can be in the same situation

[CaptSensible]

The same names seem to crop up regularly when a hatchet job is being cooked up against any particular pilot group, don't they?

Secret Squirrel for instance recently had a field day putting the boot into ALT pilots (along with a few COMPatriots).

Whats the motivation? Who knows. But it seems peculiarily vindictive and guided by ulterior motives.

It's a fine thing to dress your self up as 'the great free market avenger' I guess. Might make some folk feel big and important.

but I'd bet the same guys would look for sympathy here when they feel they have a case to argue. Or maybe they feel they don't give a damn for others opinions or assistance...being a free market avenger means having to bite the bullet when it's your own turn, doesn't it?

As to the Iberia pilots remaining silent. Well, I guess it's like the CX guys who've exited this forum en masse. Whats the point of blowing a lot of hot air with the free market avengers, and the mischevious malcontents? Absolutely none. Waste of time.

This BB is OK for the little things, like having a nark about your rostering, or finding out where's the latest job offer, but when it comes down to serious business, like fighting for your future...it's nothing but a distraction, and likely to be pejudiced and negative in it's response...particularily if the vocal minority (the free market avenger types) decide they want to put the boot in.

I don't know if whats been said about Iberia is true, nor do I really care. They are fellow members of IFALPA, and if they need my support they are welcome to it. I'd expect the same from them. Those of you with axes to grind are obviously not related to IFALPA...and probably aren't in any form of professional association. That's your choice...the free market avengers among will probably have a fit over the suggestion that such a path might be a wise one. But then, they are probably happy campers anyhow...wherever they are.

This is a Rumour Network (it says in the title). Don't get worked up if no-one but you takes it any more seriously than just exactly that.

[exeng]

Capt Sensible,

I agree with you 100%, let us show these people some professional support.

In any case, from a selfish point of view, if the Iberian Pilots are taking industrial action to improve their T & C's (however good they are 'percieved' to be right now) then we all can possibly benefit in the long run in the 'benchmarking' process that will inevitably form part of the negotiating process of any other European airline.

Secret Squirrel please take note of the above as BALPA are 'benchmarking' all operators and you personally could benefit significantly as a result. Hopefully I will see you at tomorrow night's LGW BALPA members meeting!


Regards
Exeng

[Critical Mach#]

New meeting scheduled for today between company and union representatives. Company has issued a note warning that the new offer to be presented will not be as good as previous but that they feel preety optimistic about reaching an agreement.

It will be interesting to see how the company pulls this one thru. Guess they were not present at the last pilot meeting :rolleyes:

And yes... lets show IB fellow pilots the same kind of support we would seek for our own cause

Rgds
CM