Iberia on strike
Iberia on strike
Guest
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I heard that they were going to strike every tuesday in July and every monday in August. Surely not striking over pay? I thought they were some of the best paid Pilots in the world! More likely striking over the highly limited choice of aircraft types to fly!!!
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Just before you all go leaping to Iberia's defence let me fill you in on some facts.
Firstly the majority of their history has been doggged by typical latin state owned attitudes. Whereas in England government functionaries are called Civil Servants, in Spain they would view this as a slur, considering themselves all (even the lowly desk clerk) above the general populace in standing.
Iberia is a dinosaur with BIG problems of out of date delusions of grandeur. I know some of their pilots and can tell you that one couldn't get further up one's own @rse if one tried. You only have to look at the extensive list of different types of aircraft listed above to see that their business plan is all wrong. Some of these types also have different engines for which a whole new engineering structure is available.
OK, what has this to do with the pilots, not a lot but it is the general ethos within the company that is the underlying factor here. It is populated by father's, sons, daughters, nieces and nephews; nepotism was for years the only way in. The flight crew enjoy some of the best conditions in the world to which you can add their abode. They get picked up from their HOME for god's sake by minibuses; they don't even have to drive to work!!!
95% of the pilots were trained courtesy of the Spanish tax payer either through the military or in their academy in Salamanca. Most didn't even have to pass a selection process; or at least if they did it was but a formality, because even if their score was low, a family member within Iberia would ensure that they jumped the queue anyway.
Most of them have no interest in whether the airline does well or not. They know that as a flag carrier, their job is safe.
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Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!
[This message has been edited by Secret Squirrel (edited 22 June 2001).]
Firstly the majority of their history has been doggged by typical latin state owned attitudes. Whereas in England government functionaries are called Civil Servants, in Spain they would view this as a slur, considering themselves all (even the lowly desk clerk) above the general populace in standing.
Iberia is a dinosaur with BIG problems of out of date delusions of grandeur. I know some of their pilots and can tell you that one couldn't get further up one's own @rse if one tried. You only have to look at the extensive list of different types of aircraft listed above to see that their business plan is all wrong. Some of these types also have different engines for which a whole new engineering structure is available.
OK, what has this to do with the pilots, not a lot but it is the general ethos within the company that is the underlying factor here. It is populated by father's, sons, daughters, nieces and nephews; nepotism was for years the only way in. The flight crew enjoy some of the best conditions in the world to which you can add their abode. They get picked up from their HOME for god's sake by minibuses; they don't even have to drive to work!!!
95% of the pilots were trained courtesy of the Spanish tax payer either through the military or in their academy in Salamanca. Most didn't even have to pass a selection process; or at least if they did it was but a formality, because even if their score was low, a family member within Iberia would ensure that they jumped the queue anyway.
Most of them have no interest in whether the airline does well or not. They know that as a flag carrier, their job is safe.
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Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!
[This message has been edited by Secret Squirrel (edited 22 June 2001).]
Guest
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So what.... They have an attitude problem, they have incredible benefits...good for them (by the way, they pay for the minibus pick up), have lots of different aircraft types and a loussy business plan (don´t think they had a choice on that).
The bottom line is that they gave up in salary when things were hard and now that the company is posting record profits for the past four years they want their share back (same as others).
Secret S: this is not an IB´s defence.. I just think that you have missed the point.
Regards
CM
The bottom line is that they gave up in salary when things were hard and now that the company is posting record profits for the past four years they want their share back (same as others).
Secret S: this is not an IB´s defence.. I just think that you have missed the point.
Regards
CM
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Secret Squirrel,
Very precisely put. Yours is indeed a thoughtful post that hits it right on the nail. Iberia is arguably the most self isolated, inbreeding, boorishly inward looking airline in the world that has its own -different- ways at everything. The fact that no Iberia drivers have replied to this thread clearly attests to this.
Critical Mach,
I'm afraid I cannot agree with you. You just cannot detach salary/working condition demands from a deeply ingrained company culture. The fact that Iberia would have failed long ago hadn't taxpayer money floated it or that Iberia's seniority list resembles a family tree where genes outdo brains is as central here as the demands themselves.
But then OK, we're beating around the bush. What exactly are the rise demands, what's the rationale behind it and what's the current climate now that the company's just been privatised. Would any Iberia insiders care to tell us?
Very precisely put. Yours is indeed a thoughtful post that hits it right on the nail. Iberia is arguably the most self isolated, inbreeding, boorishly inward looking airline in the world that has its own -different- ways at everything. The fact that no Iberia drivers have replied to this thread clearly attests to this.
Critical Mach,
I'm afraid I cannot agree with you. You just cannot detach salary/working condition demands from a deeply ingrained company culture. The fact that Iberia would have failed long ago hadn't taxpayer money floated it or that Iberia's seniority list resembles a family tree where genes outdo brains is as central here as the demands themselves.
But then OK, we're beating around the bush. What exactly are the rise demands, what's the rationale behind it and what's the current climate now that the company's just been privatised. Would any Iberia insiders care to tell us?
Guest
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I don't think I have missed the point, Crit. I'm sorry but the majority of the pilots there actually think that the airline owes them a living. They have been bailed out again and again.
OK, I will admit that Iberia's troubles are not down to the pilots solely. The other admin staff, the handlers and the managers have an awful lot to answer for.
I don't really care what they gave up; a token gesture in my opinion and one which won't go far enough towards repairing the long term ills of the company. As I said, most of these people are in the company because some relative or other got them in, not because they particularly like the job or take any pride in it.
Spain is full of qualified doctors, lawyers and pilots who have to sweep the streets to live. They are hungry for the chance to exercise their profession and spend years preparing 'oposiciones' (entrance exams) only to be pipped at the post by daddy's girl or boy who probably didn't lift a finger all year. Iberia pilots (for the most part) are no exception and they don't warrant my sympathy, sorry.
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Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!
OK, I will admit that Iberia's troubles are not down to the pilots solely. The other admin staff, the handlers and the managers have an awful lot to answer for.
I don't really care what they gave up; a token gesture in my opinion and one which won't go far enough towards repairing the long term ills of the company. As I said, most of these people are in the company because some relative or other got them in, not because they particularly like the job or take any pride in it.
Spain is full of qualified doctors, lawyers and pilots who have to sweep the streets to live. They are hungry for the chance to exercise their profession and spend years preparing 'oposiciones' (entrance exams) only to be pipped at the post by daddy's girl or boy who probably didn't lift a finger all year. Iberia pilots (for the most part) are no exception and they don't warrant my sympathy, sorry.
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Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!
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Secret S
seems to me that the original question had more to do with the stand taken by IB pilots, in line with that taken by other outfits lately, with respect to salary, working conditions and so on and not so much with the social virtues (or lack of) of IB and the flight crews.
May it be that I got the idea wrong to begin with?
It is not for me to comment on your remarks about MOST of IB fellow pilots since those guys are old/big enough to share their thoughts with you if they wished to do so... and if they decided not to...so be it
Rgds
CM
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'Secret Squirrel' hit the nail on the head with his comments about Iberia, an airline with which I've had involvement both from the inside, and unfortunately as a (full fare) passenger.
The staff think they are Gods - hardly surprising when they are brought up with this attitude. They are arrogant, badly trained, and frequently incompetent. Their attitude is that the airline is run for them as a means of personal transportation for themselves, their families and their friends, and that passengers are a
disruption and a nuisance.
So if they go on strike and the airline loses money and has to be restructured and run on commercial lines, as far as I'm concerned that day can't come soon enough! In the meantime let the decent airlines that serve the same routes pick up Iberia's passengers. Except for Argentina of course where they've screwed Aerolineas Argentinas into the ground and left little choice for passengers.
[This message has been edited by Capetonian (edited 26 June 2001).]
The staff think they are Gods - hardly surprising when they are brought up with this attitude. They are arrogant, badly trained, and frequently incompetent. Their attitude is that the airline is run for them as a means of personal transportation for themselves, their families and their friends, and that passengers are a
disruption and a nuisance.
So if they go on strike and the airline loses money and has to be restructured and run on commercial lines, as far as I'm concerned that day can't come soon enough! In the meantime let the decent airlines that serve the same routes pick up Iberia's passengers. Except for Argentina of course where they've screwed Aerolineas Argentinas into the ground and left little choice for passengers.
[This message has been edited by Capetonian (edited 26 June 2001).]
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Non Rnav,
Why indeed! I'd say it has more to do with their language problem. Very few of them must be really ashamed as they are so self isolated that they have very little knowledge of the outside world and so are led to believe that theirs is the "normal" way of running an airline. (Yes, they pretend they run it).
Another possibility is that no Iberia pilots would dare to speak up. In fact their union is so strong that very few of them would ever dare to dissent or take a stand against the instructions given by it. I wonder what percentage of them fully understand the demands or the implications of their industrial actions, yet they show an enviable determination to demonstrate their corporate muscle.
Anyhow, does anybody know what their current demands are and what the likely prospects are?
Why indeed! I'd say it has more to do with their language problem. Very few of them must be really ashamed as they are so self isolated that they have very little knowledge of the outside world and so are led to believe that theirs is the "normal" way of running an airline. (Yes, they pretend they run it).
Another possibility is that no Iberia pilots would dare to speak up. In fact their union is so strong that very few of them would ever dare to dissent or take a stand against the instructions given by it. I wonder what percentage of them fully understand the demands or the implications of their industrial actions, yet they show an enviable determination to demonstrate their corporate muscle.
Anyhow, does anybody know what their current demands are and what the likely prospects are?
Guest
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I thoght this forum was meant, among other things, to comment and defend our profession. In this particular issue all I see is a lot of personal anger for whatever the reason.
I'm not an IB pilot but I'm stepping forward as an spanish airline pilot supporting IB pilots and their industrial action.
As far as I know they just want back what it was theirs. They had to give up part of their salary five years ago with the promise from the company that it would be returned the moment the airline was in blacks. IB has been profiting for the last four years but it seems like they forgot the promise they made. I don't think what you are saying about them is right and most of the time true, I strongly recommend that you put aside your anger and get a better information about the issue.
By they way , why they should even know that this forum exists?, just to make you happy because then they can answer using the same bad manners as you are?. Maybe they don't want to argue in such a way.
I'm an Spanair pilot and I've nothing to win in this business but guys.....
Fly Safe
J.G.
I'm not an IB pilot but I'm stepping forward as an spanish airline pilot supporting IB pilots and their industrial action.
As far as I know they just want back what it was theirs. They had to give up part of their salary five years ago with the promise from the company that it would be returned the moment the airline was in blacks. IB has been profiting for the last four years but it seems like they forgot the promise they made. I don't think what you are saying about them is right and most of the time true, I strongly recommend that you put aside your anger and get a better information about the issue.
By they way , why they should even know that this forum exists?, just to make you happy because then they can answer using the same bad manners as you are?. Maybe they don't want to argue in such a way.
I'm an Spanair pilot and I've nothing to win in this business but guys.....
Fly Safe
J.G.
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Don’t expect to hear much from Iberia pilots, this forum is not well known among the spanish aviation community and if any wished to reply he wouldn’t know how to say it, the English language is not their forte, just listen to them across the Atlantic.
[This message has been edited by drag required (edited 28 June 2001).]
[This message has been edited by drag required (edited 28 June 2001).]