ABERDEEN

[Inverted81]

Hi
Visited the Airport this week... great airport, such varied operations. Perhaps start some discussion???
81

[GBALU53]

Good to see new Airports appear, keep it going, you do have a Jersey connection be it only a Dash in the summer??:ok:

[ABZlad]

Any news on the extension. I had heard that BAA have applied for planning permission for 300m, but only intend building 150m (possibly due to funding available).
That would allow one of the current operators to follow up on their stated intention to add more European flights, but not much else.:sad:
I also hear that they will not be building an associated taxiway, so there will have to be increased traffic spacing to allow for backtracks.
GBALU53: No regular flights to Jersey, but I think there might be a weekly ERJ45 for a short summer season.

[Gogsymac]

ABZlad do you have a source for this ? It would seem prety pointless applying for permission for a 300m extension and then only building 150m of it. They would have to alter ther planning permission application wouldn't they? - I have seen no mention of that anywhere.

[ABZlad]

Gogsymac - My source is a friend who works at the airport.
Apparently, if planning is granted for the 300m extension, 150m can be built with no major alteration to the original permission which is valid for, I believe, five years. Then when, or if funds allow, the remainder of the extension can be built without going through the planning process again. (Compare it to building half a house at the start of the planning period and then finishing it just before expiry).
Personally, I am disappointed if my source is correct because it would mean that flights would still be very limited in range.
In addition, the building of the extension in two phases would double the potential of disruption to flights during construction and have the added expense of moving the approach lights and Glide Path twice.
Perhaps the BAA could tap Donald Trump for a loan to build the full extension when he arrives this weekend to further his plans to build a championship golf course near Aberdeen!:ok:

[Gogsymac]

Thanks for the further info ABZlad.
It would indeed be a pity if your source is correct.

i shall speak to Donald Trump tomorrow to see if he can help in some way.:)

[Richard Taylor]

Seems Flyglobespan are to launch ABZ flights in S07, with an announcement apparently due next week as to where.

[Ed Set]

This week's hot rumour suggests that they ARE now considering a parallell taxiway-They don't say when though!!! it could be 20 years hence.....:sad:

[5711N0205W]

They don't say when though!!! it could be 20 years hence.....

If it's anything like the bypass then quite probably....

[ABZlad]

Seems Flyglobespan are to launch ABZ flights in S07
Great news for Aberdeen if it happens this time. However the airport desperately needs new concrete for parking - not just stands laid over existing remote parking areas. Last Friday morning I saw three aircraft holding on the ground for fifteen minutes awaiting a stand. It seems to be getting worse.

[Richard Taylor]

Indeed it does ABZ lad.

With double-parking on 8 & 10, & Stand 1 split A, B C when required, new stands and more parking both badly needed.

Believe there is WIP on new stands as we speak?

Re parking, would it be worthwhile asking if the heli cos could strike a deal to allow a/c to park on their aprons, or is that not feasible.

Have heard/seen FLT 146s on the Bristow ramp before, albeit that may be a special case given that FLT do the IAC flights t/f SCS.

Re GSM, they had slots at PRG for an ABZ route, but may have handed them back by now, as this was several months ago. Also talk of a BGO route, competing with WIF.

If the latter is true, what with SAS/CNO/WIF, X9, BMI R possibly being joined by GSM, RYR & BEE on the Scandi market(the latter 2 certainly have alluded to looking at the Scandi market t/f ABZ), could see another Viking invasion!

All ifs, but, maybes of course...we wait & see.

[Richard Taylor]

Today's report says GSM acquiring 2x B737-700s (modified) of which one will be ABZ-based from S07.

Preparatory work on new routes "90%" complete, only slot agreement with the various airports outstanding (may be the most difficult part?!)

Routes to be announced "in the coming weeks" so nothing this week.

Good news for ABZ, wonder what the "mods" are to the 737s - winglets maybe??

[dwlpl]

Richard Taylor

What report?

[webby1919]

Cheap flights to up to 14 holiday hotspots will take off from Aberdeen next summer, the boss of a leading budget airline revealed yesterday.

by Keith Findlay
Tom Dalrymple, chairman of Edinburgh-based Flyglobespan, expects to announce destinations within a few weeks.

The company has bought two new planes and one is to be deployed in Aberdeen where the current size of runway has been a stumbling block to Flyglobespan's plans until now.

A host of popular holiday destinations can be reached with the new Boeing 737 700 aircraft, which are more fuel efficient than other planes in the airline's fast-growing fleet.

Flyglobespan's summer 2007 programme for Aberdeen is still being finalised, but all of the Mediterranean resorts ? as far as Cyprus ? are being looked at.

The news was welcomed by city leaders last night.

Aberdeen Lord Provost John Reynolds said: "Flyglobespan are a Scottish airline and it is wonderful news from Aberdeen's point of view that these new routes will be taking off.

"There is certainly the business up here. Most people have to travel to the central belt to get their connection."

He added: "The sooner the better ? if it could be tomorrow, that would be great."

Mr Dalrymple said 90% of the work involved in getting the new flights up and running was done, but the airline was still negotiating with airport bosses over take-off and landing slots.

He said the destinations will be dictated by demand and would not necessarily be places already served by Flyglobespan.

The carrier currently operates from Edinburgh, Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester and Stansted and flies to European hotspots including Tenerife, Lanzarote, Faro, Majorca, Ibiza, Alicante, Malaga and Nice.

Mr Dalrymple said there would be at least seven new routes from the Granite City and possibly as many as 14.

Flyglobespan first pledged to launch flights from Aberdeen in March last year, but only if a ban on landing at the airport after 11.30pm was lifted.

Councillors subsequently gave the go-ahead for round the clock opening.

That led to Flyglobespan quickly unveiling plans to start new flights from Aberdeen this summer.

But the airport's relatively short runway proved too much of a hurdle and forced the airline into a rethink.

With a little modification, the new aircraft will be able to takeoff and land at Aberdeen and complete its journey without having to stop for refuelling.

Boeing's latest 737 700 model costs around £25.5million and carries 148 passengers.

Mr Dalrymple would not reveal where the second plane will be deployed, but said the airline's two new aircraft were due to be delivered next spring.

Flyglobespan's first flight took off in April 2002, and it now operates 11 aircraft to destinations around Europe, as well as the US and Canada.

Flights start at just under £30, including taxes, but climb in price for more popular travel days and times.

The airline expects to carry almost 2million passengers to over 20 destinations this year.

Next month it starts a daily service from Glasgow to Florida and more long-haul expansion is planned, possibly from Aberdeen if the runway is extended.

A spokesman for the airline said: "The Aberdeen expansion is great news for local holidaymakers. As with all Flyglobespan flights, people taking the Aberdeen routes will have the option of taking flight-only and adding transfers or accommodation."

Mr Dalrymple added: "We promised that if Aberdeen Airport extended its opening hours, we would fly from there. We then had to find the right aircraft that could handle the runway and also give us the range to get to some attractive resorts.

"This new 700 is the perfect plane and we look forward to organising some exciting destinations for next summer."

He said many people from the north-east were using Flyglobespan from Edinburgh and Glasgow. "That won't be necessary next year," he added.


Source: Press & Journal

[Richard Taylor]

Was up looking at the work in progress in relation to the new a/c stands to the west of Stand 13. Anyone know how long the project will take to complete? Was it 3 extra stands?

Re GSM, would like to think there is a large local market for direct flights abroad. Many people in this area head south to GLA,EDI even NCL to catch flights. There were 160 on last night's MON flight t AGP, so hopefully an indication at least that there is a market somewhere that can be tapped.

As usual, fares/destinations/frequency will be important.

Finally, anyone know how BMI Reg are doing on the AMS route in competition with KLM. Have they impacted on KLM loads at all, or are both enjoying growth on the route.

Thanks. :ok:

[Ed Set]

The "new" stands should have been ready this month but will now NOT be ready until sometime in June-if we are lucky!!
Desperately need some more concrete (not revitalised old ones) with some traffic experiencing delays at the moment of up to 25 minutes.
Let's hope that when RYR (and next year GSM ) have their new routes, that they will have a stand to move on to.
The revamped stands are capable of taking 737 variants so they should help.
And if a certain US airline should start to Houston, or rather back from Houston.......

[Richard Taylor]

GSM newsletter confirms a 737-7 at ABZ for S07.

Still negotiating landing slots, but mentions the a/c will bring Med resorts & as far away as Cyprus within reach.

Would they compete with MON on AGP, doubt it could sustain 2 operators?

BAA ABZ talking to anyone else?

[Richard Taylor]

The Rolling Annual Passenger Total for ABZ has passed the 3m mark (May-May), the first ever time the airport has achieved this.

Quite an achievement given the size of the catchment area in the city & shire.

[throw a dyce]

The place is a joke.Always has been,only the BAA are getting caught out for years of neglect.
The only people that make that place work are the Airport ATC.BAA have no dealings with the helicopters.BAA don't have to deal with 50% of the traffic.BAA don't have to deal with the gridlock when they run out of stands on a daily basis.
I have seen bigger terminals in the Southern Philippines,which is really 3rd world.
Nats has treated the controllers there like s...t for years.They are now just about the lowest paid in Nats,at one of the most complex and difficult to validate Towers in the world.
It's falling to bits,and I couldn't care less:D :ugh:

[Richard Taylor]

TaD's rantings aside(justifiable by the way), City Star seem to be happily chugging along with their OSL & SVG/KSU routes, plus charters.

Does anyone in & around ABZ have the latest on their expansion plans?

Have any of the new a/c reached ABZ, or even Iceland. What about the new routes(4, if reports were accurate), are negotiations continuing. Doesn't look like the new routes will come in time for summer*.

*if it ever comes. :uhoh:

[throw a dyce]

Dickie,
Ranting eh:p
Here's some solutions.We need 3 to 4 new international Stands yesterday.We need a high speed turn-off just past 32.Only been waiting for 26 years for that one.The airfield needs to be upgraded to Cat2 ILS standard now.The ILS are fine,it's just BAA's airfield that's not up to standard.All the Eastflights need to go to remote parking and get their passengers bussed out.
As far as the terminals goes,what is the space upstairs used for? Offices or what.Get all that space revamped and use it for shops,seating,restaurants.Would it be possible to get more than one luggage belt.
You can have all the new services you want,but if there's no where to park them,or the terminal is bursting,what's the point.As I say BAA only deal with half the traffic and they can't get that right.When they run out of stands,they block off the D or A apron,which blocks the way to Bristows or Scotia helis:D
Rant over and out:}

[Richard Taylor]

Justifiable rantings :ok:

Could the carriers with smaller a/c like Eastern (sorry Eastern :} ) City Star etc come to some arrangement with BAA/Ferrovial & the heli cos. to use their terminals for flights, creating more space on the main terminal apron for other flights. Would it be really too difficult to come to some arrangement with Bristow/Scotia/Bond or with offshore traffic getting busier, would it logistically impossible.

Is ABZ big enough in area to have a high-speed turn-off either from 16 or 34 without it affecting other operations. Talking hypothetically of course, it'll probably never happen!

[throw a dyce]

To answer your questions from a pond life Atco's point of view.
If the C taxiway was widened to take a Jetstream(currently can only take a Cessna or heli) then the C apron could be used for them.Also if the old Light aircraft park,now Scotia spots 1 and 2 used again for fixed wing, then that would give parking for 5 to 6 jetstreams combined with the C aprons.These aircraft need no push-back assistance, and should not be blocking stands.
As far as a high speed is concerned,then on 16 it would be very handy just south of 32.It would cut down about 2 miles of spacing.That will NEVER happen so aircraft just use more fuel,touring round Aberdeenshire.
Anyway lets hope we get some decent services out of there.I'm tired of going from Glasgow:ok:

[Richard Taylor]

Looks like the terminal is going to get more crowded.

LBA-ABZ & EXT-ABZ (both once daily) with DH8D.

wef 29/10, assuming they don't do a "NWI" & canx them before they start.

Local paper reports a 3rd destination to be announced next week, if you believe them!

Some competition for Eastern on LBA!

[aeulad]

Flybe. have said ages ago that they still intend to open the ABZ-NWI route.

I would expect either that, Birmingham or somewhere in Scandinavia.

Regards

Mike

[BombardierCR7]

The Exeter flight is via LBA.

[Toastal]

Hi guys, heard any news/gossip on what the deal is with new routes for the company? Also, if you were betting folks, what would your guess be? I hear they've got themselves a couple of additional aircraft and intend to expand! Have I been miss-informed? T

[Richard Taylor]

Believe it is BHX that is the BE 3rd route, unless it routes EXT-BHX-LBA-ABZ :}

Edited to add looks like BHX not until Spring 2007?

[Toastal]

Richard Taylor

RT, the numerous questions I was asking pertained to City Star Airlines!! Be greatful for any info/goss

[Richard Taylor]

Hi Toastie, yes I saw your sub-heading, chose to ignore it!!! :p

Re Citystar, a fine company indeed. Pity I don't work for 'em! ;) Was asking the same Q on this thread couple of days ago about their plans. Seem to be concentrating on their Norwegian routes, but were talking of 4 new routes from here.

They had slots for LCY but no announcements. REK also appears on their website, but maybe due to fact parent company is Landsflug.

Dropped BLK earlier this year, doubt it's coming back.

[Richard Taylor]

TFS-ABZ appearing on their website from this winter.

Must be confident the *runway ext will go ahead, unless they can fly ABZ-TFS non-stop!

Friday flights I believe.

*Don't they know how Aiberdein Cooncil works?? :ugh:

[Cuddles]

Runway extension? Citystar?

Topical? Me?

[Richard Taylor]

Of the 3 AGP services launched to provincial airports last year, NQY has gone, BLK is apparently going, will ABZ be gone before long as well?

Especially if AGP proves to be one of GSM's routes from 07 when it launches from its new ABZ base?

If BLK had good loads yet is still going, would think ABZ is at risk. Does anyone know how the service at ABZ is doing?

[tangoecho]

Richard Taylor

The loads at ABZ for AGP are 95%-100% all the time.
If Monarch pull out of ABZ it won't be because of the pax numbers.

Stu...

[Richard Taylor]

Hi Stu, reassuring re AGP loads, but will that encourage GSM all the more to make AGP one of their routes when they launch.

Meanwhile Direct Holidays are to add Ibiza, Menorca & Costa Dorada from Dyce for Summer 07.

IBZ been served before, not sure though about Mahon. Is it Reus that would serve Dorada? (Sorry, bit lazy, not checked!)

[Impress to inflate]

With ref to Throw a dyce using spot 1 and 2 at Scotia for fixed wing, this will not happen at the moment bedcause Scotia's new S92 toy has to use those spots because of there weight and "extra" security needed for helis over 10 tons. Sorry boys and girls. ITI

[throw a dyce]

ITI,
Well it was just a thought.Never mind back to 25 min holds on the taxiway:D
Don't understand that because the Chinook spots are still there (Not spot1&2),and they were over 10tons.
;)

[tangoecho]

Got an e-mail from management about the runway extension, and it seems like we passed the enviromental hurdle.
And if all goes well with the rest of the planning they are hoping to get it started beginning of next year.

about time :D

stu...

[Richard Taylor]

When do our "esteemed" cooncil sit down to discuss the planning application for the extension?

[tangoecho]

A paragraph from BAA management e-mail

"BAA Aberdeen management are now confident of a positive outcome when the city council's planning committee considers the application later this year. If planning permission is granted, construction work for the first phase of the extension is due to begin in 2007".

So lets hope it goes through.

Stu...

[Richard Taylor]

See 4/7 LHR flights canx today & we had our first LGW flights for a couple of days yesterday.

Tighter security notwithstanding, is it just my imagination or are BA (proportionally) canx more ABZ flights f/t London than any other domestic destination? They managed to operate most flights (to LHR) yesterday so what is the problem today?

Local leaders are becoming concerned that, if this continues, it will impact the local economy.

It's not the first time over the years that BA have been accused of being all too ready to impact ABZ flights when a problem arises.

So are BA committed to ABZ - London flights?

And who is to blame for the security chaos? BA (remember they made many ground handling staff redundant last year & I recall the disruption then as BA didn't have enough staff to cope when the Catering Dispute was in full swing)? BAA for not having contingency plans when the Govt introduced the tighter measures (& to my mind BAA WEREN'T ready for it, no matter what they tell you)? The Govt/Dept of Transport for overkill in the wake of the alert? Can't help thinking the terrorists in this alleged plot may think they have a victory anyway thanks to the disruption that has ensued.

There will come a time when LHR flights will reduce, hopefully by then there may be more direct European routes from ABZ. Can't come soon enough given BA's "commitment" to providing a service (I use the term loosely) out of ABZ.

:ugh: :ugh: :* :*

[tangoecho]

I also see GLA & EDI have some canx flights.

BA won't reduce flights to LHR (In the near future anyway), as ABZ has more (full fare paying) business pax than any other airport in the uk. (LHR apart).
The BA executive lounge at ABZ I was told is the busiest in the UK. Apart from LHR.

BMI won't be complaining as they're cleaning up at the moment. :D

Stu...

[Richard Taylor]

I hear what you say Stu. :ok:

However if that is the case, shouldn't BA be making MORE of an effort to put as many of its ABZ flights as possible?

They surely risk losing these people to bmi, exec jets, or other modes of transport.

Can't believe BAA would tell BA to canx so many ABZ flights - they would leave that to the operator.

BA must think it is easiest just to canx ABZ & be done with it, in the hope all the business types stick to collecting their airmiles etc, & forgive BA for the canx flights. One day they may not.

[Richard Taylor]

Reading T3 to launch 4 new routes at ABZ, in different stages of development. A couple at "advanced" stage. Wonder if CWL will be one. Also LCY? And will any be international?

ALso a 2nd SYY rotation from winter timetable.

Strong growth apparently on all T3 ABZ flights.

Wonder what a/c type T3 will use? :rolleyes: :}

(New stands 15 & 16 in use now. Will this mean the end of "double parking" at ABZ?)

[tangoecho]

Good to hear eastern expanding even more at ABZ.

Ibiza, Menorca and Reus added to next summers charter flights (yippee more choice). Pity Faro wasn't included though.

An incident has happened this morning concerning an ATR parked on the echo apron.
Handbrake seemingly failed and rolled into the fence and ripped it. also puncturing the aircraft skin. (haven't got the whole story yet at work).

Stu...

[webby1919]

Still have Flyglobespans expansion to come though, I'd guess there'd be a FAO flight in there, even if it is 2 weekly. I think the list of destinations include: TFS/ALC/AGP/PMI/BCN/PRG/FAO/STN?/ACE

[Mister Geezer]

Think globespan won't touch AGP since Monarch are doing that and I would be surprised if they touch STN since they decided to throw away their domestic network with EDI and GLA to STN being ditched!

I think you will see TFS continuing plus PMI, BCN, ALC, NCE, FAO & PFO!

[webby1919]

No offence, but ZB flights won't put them off operating AGP - I'm sure there is plenty of room for more flights to AGP. Will have to wait and see.

[Mister Geezer]

Globespan don't have much direct competition from their other Scottish bases with other scheduled operators and I am sure they would like to continue that. The market that they will enter into in Aberdeen is limited and untested and we all remember the poor loads that apparently forced Air Scotland to axe its short stay in Aberdeen.

[Richard Taylor]

I think it's safe to say things have changed at ABZ since Air Scotland days.

At that time, the local economy was in a downturn due to lower levels of oil activity & dropping pax nos. at ABZ reflected this.

ABZ currently BAA Scotland's fastest growing in terms of pax nos.

However as pointed out, catchment area is lower, so for Flyglobespan & the rest, it's a case of "suck it & see".

Monarch launched AGP, & it's worked for them.

However LPL has proved a failure down the years - remains to be seen if RYR will make it work.

GSM may find some routes they launch will work, others will not be so successful.

The trick is finding out.

[tangoecho]

An incident has happened this morning concerning an ATR parked on the echo apron.
Handbrake seemingly failed and rolled into the fence and ripped it. also puncturing the aircraft skin. (haven't got the whole story yet at work).

Stu...

http://tinylink.com/?bxYGvGosLl

Stu...

[Richard Taylor]

Timings seem to have changed.

Today has seen the timings changed from Arr 0920/0950 Dept, to Arr 1550/1620 Dept.

Is this only temporary or a permanent change.

To my mind this timing is not as "business friendly" as the morning arrival, unless this is a prequisite to another rotation being introduced soon.

[throw a dyce]

Ah well that another one for a 25 min wait for an international gate..:ok: :D
Drawing new lines on resurfaced concrete ain't fixing the problem..:uhoh:

[Richard Taylor]

Local radio (Northsound) reporting bmi Baby as launching BHX-ABZ flights from end Oct, 2x daily M-F.

Brum bunfight on the cards if Flybe don't do what they did with NWI & actually launch the route.

Could see BACon v bmi B v Flybe.

[Richard Taylor]

Increasing MAN flights to 6 daily M-F, looks like from end Oct.

Early morning & teatime new arrivals.

Things getting crowded on the Apron soon!

[ATIS31]

Anyone know any more about the 4 new Routes for Eastern out of Aberdeen. Also if SYY is getting a second daily flight does anyone know what time of day they will be ?
Will they be upgrading to a J41 ? ;)

[Richard Taylor]

Apparently X9 were going to announce a new domestic route from ABZ last Sun, but had a "change of heart" & are now looking at another domestic route instead. However no announcements re this expected before early 2007.

Wonder which domestic route they decided against.

Re T3, my guesses are CWL, LCY, KOI, LSI. I read they were not planning any international routes from ABZ & I recall they said a couple of years back that they would consider KOI & LSI, but at that time were put off by competing against a BA franchise. I know nothing's changed in that regard, but I wonder if they've changed their minds.

Was also a snippet in the paper re IAH. Didn't say anything new, except that no funding to fly any route had been agreed/secured. Given the EU's intentions to stop Route Development Funding for long haul routes to Scotland (from May 07) I wonder if this will stymie any supposed IAH-ABZ route.

[Richard Taylor]

On T3's refurbished website it is showing IOM as a destination from ABZ, & vice versa, but nothing bookable yet.

Looks like Ronaldsway could be the first of the new routes T3 have been talking about.

Has ABZ had flights to IOM before - seem to remember Air Ecosse flying a route. Might be wrong though.

And still to be confirmed of course.

[Richard Taylor]

Ryanair's 2nd route t/f ABZ starts tomorrow, LPL. Will they meet with any success or will it go the same way as previous attempts to link the two cities down the years?

T3 IOM is apparently a connection via NCL. Doesn't appear in the dests list now for ABZ, neither does LCY.

[shannon55]

I think the new LPL route will be a success.The oil industry in Aberdeen plus, both city's large student populations and the fact that both city's are growing city-break markets will provide a stable market for the new flights.

Does anyone think there is a chance of a new ABZ-ORK flight, maybe with Eastern airlines?? http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon5.gif

[Richard Taylor]

Firstly, apologies as the LPL flight with RYR started TODAY, got my dates wrong! RYR hope to carry 100K pax on the route, tad ambitious? Air Wales struggled to carry 100 in a week!! Good luck to them in any event.

Suggestions of a schedule of routes starting to appear on the GSM website, taking in (so far) BCN, PMI, ALC, FAO & MJV. Can't see this for myself, but apparently you can change the airports in the timetables page (not even going to try!!) Suppose you can make the timetables say anything you want it to. If true however, no AGP...YET! So MON Sch'd can breathe easier.

[tangoecho]

Well pax numbers on the first FR flight are as follows

LPL-ABZ 69
ABZ-LPL 62

Not bad in my opinion for the maiden flight of the route.

Also full emergency at ABZ today with Easterns J32.

It was heading to wick and landing gear wouldn't fully extend, so manually lowered. as was touching down at wick nose wheel collapses, so the pilot pulls nose up and takes off again. Decides to head back to ABZ, but unknown to the crew. wick ATC tells them bits of propeller and landing gear on runway. Full emergency at ABZ A/C manages to land safely with 3 pAX on board.

This is how I heard it at work:ok:
Stu...

[Richard Taylor]

FR: 60-odd pax on a 738 both ways doesn't sound that encouraging. We'll have to see if the route is allowed to develop - FR dropping HUY-DUB after only one season due to poor loads. As you say Stu maiden flight, so maybe things will pick up in the weeks ahead.

T3: So did the nosewheel hold up when it returned to ABZ? Also 3 pax aboard :eek: Surely that can't make money for the airline? Mind you I imagine that most off-peak T3 flights t/f ABZ would carry that sort of load!

[tangoecho]

Heard from the ADM 150 odd pax booked on the liverpool flight Sat. (Heading south)

Yes the landing gear did hold when landing at ABZ. seemingly props are in a right state. G-BUVC was the A/C in question.

Stu...:ok:

[ATIS31]

Heard it was 5 Passengers and 3 Crew. Also noticed Aircraft G-BUVC is painted in Easterns new colours looks quite smart on the J32 guess that means teh J32s are staying in the fleet.Glad to hear they landed safely:ok:

[tangoecho]

Definately 3 Pax and 3 crew. I spoke to the cabin crew and she confirms this.:ok:

Stu..

[Computer says NO!]

T3: So did the nosewheel hold up when it returned to ABZ? Also 3 pax aboard :eek: Surely that can't make money for the airline? Mind you I imagine that most off-peak T3 flights t/f ABZ would carry that sort of load!

Richard, I think you will find most off peak T3 flights at ABZ carry much more than 3 these days! It is very rare indeed for a T3 flight not to make a profit due to lack of pax!!

[webby1919]

ABZ to:

ALC - 2 weekly, departs Mon/Fri
BCN - 2 weekly, departs Thurs/Sun
PFO - weekly, departs Tues
FAO - 2 weekly, departs Wed/Sat
AGP - TBA
MJV - 2 weekly, departs Wed/Sun
PMI - 3 weekly, departs Mon/Thurs/Sat
TFS - TBA

Looks like a good host of routes for the first Season.

[Richard Taylor]

And it looks like MON will have competition on the AGP run after all! Can it sustain 2 carriers?

Great to see ABZ finally start to receive the low-cost flights enjoyed by others.

Re T3, see a lot of talk about why the crew of the WIC aircraft elected to return to ABZ the other day. Also a lot of uninformed rubbish by those who should know better perhaps. My question is why they didn't elect to divert to INV, as nearer. Was it a company requirement for them to fly to ABZ - but T3 do have a presence at INV. Not criticising, just curious. Main thing is everyone got off safely.

CsN: My comments re T3 were (slightly!) tongue-in -cheek. I guess the vast majority of T3 flights are busy, but I did read a SOU flight (the direct one) the other day had 14 aboard, that on a SB20. Don't think there's much doubt T3 do extremely well out of ABZ! :ok:

[Ed Set]

Oh the joy of NOT having to sit around for 7 hours waiting for a connecting flight.:D
Booked my ABZ-PFO flights today.
Good news for Aberdeen and the local catchment area. Gives me something to do at night now apart from wait for Sheds and the odd ambulance!!
Ed

[tangoecho]

"As well as improving holiday options for the region, we will also be bringing employment into the area. We prefer to hire flight deck personnel and cabin crew members locally and will start a recruitment drive immediately."
The airline will base a new Boeing 737-700 aircraft at Aberdeen for next summer's flight programme. The aircraft will be able to fly to Tenerife and Cyprus non-stop from the Granite City.

P&J

Great news

Stu...:ok:

[throw a dyce]

Great news at last.Will get my FAO flight booked up and save the trip to Glasgow.BAA will have to start pouring more concrete PDQ for International Stands.It's still a joke there and as usual ATC have to sort out the mess.:ugh:

[tangoecho]

Isn't it Airfield Ops that have the stand juggling job??
ATC just have the job of telling the A/C to wait 20 odd mins for the juggling to stop. lol

Stu...:ok:

[Richard Taylor]

Hearing the CDG flight for winter may be upgraded to a F100 from F70.

[throw a dyce]

Tangoecho,
What a load of tripe.
Where prey tell can we hold a plane for 20mins,on an airfield the size of a postage stamp?:D On 16 the airfield grinds of a halt,and on 34 you have an area about 300m where you can hold.Don't forget we have swarms of helis to deal with,something that the BAA has NEVER had to cope with.There are NO new areas to park.Just resurfaced to become stands,but it is of no use.
There a 4,yes 4 international stands.Common waken up,and get the concrete down now.:mad:

[tangoecho]

A new large international stand is to be laid (If thats the correct phrase) beside stand 1 and it will be stand 0 as I was told it will be enough to carry 2 737-800s. I expect that includes the widening of stand 1.
Also International arrivals hall being made bigger.

Throw a dyce:
Believe me I know what like it is at the busier times of day. I know you have a difficult job.:ouch:

Stu...:ok:

[Richard Taylor]

Stand 0 !!!! :rolleyes: Surely not!!

AGP has disappeared off the GSM list for ABZ, so MON have it to themselves for now.

[Brian304]

Hey people

would just like to ask if theres a cheap way to land and park your aircraft in aberdeen airport for a couple of days? Instead of landing in the current FBO "signarture" which has quoted for parking my aircraft there for 48 hours and landing fee and nav fee will cost a total of £130 for a socata TB10. Which I think is unbelievable compared to the £8.50 I pay in liverpool. So has any nice hearted people out there got any suggestion and information for me?.

Thanks

BRI ^^

[Richard Taylor]

Bri:

Don't have contact details or rates but try the flying club at ABZ, Grampian Flying School or whatever they call themselves these days. They should be able to park your TB10.

[Richard Taylor]

See the final draft of GLA's masterplan is due out today (may even be out now), following on from the previous one for EDI.

Anyone know when the final draft of the ABZ one is due out?

And will it be any different from the initial draft last year? As has been said, more international stands & parking areas are badly needed.

In terms of actual area, anywhere ABZ can expand into? Can more land to the south of the Flying School be given over to parking aircraft?

What about the farm/farmland to the south of the terminal/cargo area. Could the farmer be enticed to sell up (I've long thought BAA should have bought him out years ago). That'll shake up the sheep! :E

[ThreadBaron]

If it's anything like the bypass then quite probably....
Anderson Drive's been finished for years..........................................

[Richard Taylor]

Hey min! :}

Anderson Drive's nae bin the same since cooncil dug up thon roses fae the carriageways. :rolleyes:

[throw a dyce]

I'm sure that BAA own Millie's Farm but haven't done anything with it.There is a plan for a circular type of thing with nose in stands,but not for a while.I think that should be looked at rather quickly.
I think that the Damon Hill stand 0 should have been built 2 years ago.
As for land south of the flying club.That would be tricky as the 34 glide path and protected area is there.Access would be difficult.
There was rumblings that BAA wanted to take away 23,and use it for parking.With the starter strip requiring backtracks,and also vortex wake problems,then the gaps will have to be enormous.Thats because there are no high speed turnoffs on 16 either.Losing 23 would be a disaster for the movement rates,but then the BAA won't have to sort out that mess either.
I have had to hold Air France on the apron for nearly 30 mins,and try and find a place as to not completey jam the airport.''Pierre'' doesn't understand that there are empty stands,but he can't park there as they are domestic.With the growing number of flights(another 5% purely in the winter schedules) on top of the double digit growth figures,then this problem needs an urgent fix.Not 2007 or when the new bypass gets built.NOW:ugh:

[tangoecho]

I'm sure I heard that the farm beside the viewing area was bought by the speedbird Inn. The farmer wouldn't sell it to BAA.
The speedbird then rents it out to the farmer with the sheep. (Don.t quote me though).
Also the area south of flying club has the underground tank things for refilling fire engines of water. As well as the 34 ils protected area.


Stu...:ok:

[Richard Taylor]

Notice an article in the evening paper re the runway extension, with two people debating FOR and AGAINST.

Unsurprisingly (!), Andy Flower is extoling the virtues FOR the extension, but mentioned in his submission that Ryanair have been "encouraging" the City Council to come down in favour of the extension, so that they can operate flights to/from ABZ into Europe.

To me, that's the clearest indication yet the RYR will expand ops at Dyce as long as the runway extension proceeds.

Didn't read the debate against, was some Friends of The Earth bod.

So what has MOL's mob been doing to "encourage" the Council?

Thumbscrews?
Aberdeen Angus head in some Council Chief's bed? (makes a change from a horse).

MOL if you happen upon this, I WAS ONLY JOKING HONEST! :} :uhoh:

[dwlpl]

Some passenger numbers noticed on flights taken over the last day or two;

22nd Oct FR1842 Liverpool/Aberdeen had 165 passengers
24th Oct FR1847 Inverness/Liverpool had 35 passengers (Inbound Liverpool flight to Inverness brought in 131 passengers)

[Richard Taylor]

The ABZ load looks good, but yield is the thing. Are RYR making money on the passengers paying next to nowt for their actual flight. Can't imagine every load is 165!

Outbound, would RYR not be restricted by the ABZ runway length? Getting a738 airborne out of here with 160-odd aboard would be quite a task, unless RYR have upgraded their engines. I suppose the winglets help, but not every RYR 738 has them - I saw both the DUB & LPL flight inbound recently. One had winglets, the other didn't.

LPL & DUB are quite close in terms of flying time from ABZ I would have thought.

Anyone here know what RYR are restricted to in terms of pax nos. out of ABZ with their 738's to both DUB & LPL (I assume they have to be at the moment)?

[dwlpl]

Anyone here know what RYR are restricted to in terms of pax nos. out of ABZ with their 738's to both DUB & LPL (I assume they have to be at the moment)?

No idea about Aberdeen but the Inverness flight back to Liverpool had 6 rows (33 seats) blocked off.

[tangoecho]

No restrictions at all Richard.
Liverpool often get a full load out of ABZ. I would say 80%-100% most of the time.
Yes the 738 can be full out of ABZ as they only need to take on enough fuel to get as far as Liverpool.

Stu...:ok:

[Richard Taylor]

Thanks gents yet again. :ok:

So at the mo, are RYR getting better loads on their DUB route, or their new LPL route?

Any way of telling on the two RYR routes whether most of the passenger traffic is being generated from here, or at the "away" end?

Could other domestic destinations benefit from some loco competition?

I know we have Baby coming onto the BHX route next week, could the likes of MAN, NWI, SOU for example see growth if a loco announced services? Or even NCL, MME or HUY (maybe that's stretching things, especially the last two!)

And what about the likes of AMS, CPH, Paris (not necessarily CDG!) with some loco competition. Feasible or unlikely?

See today a CAA survey of 14 airports showed ABZ as topping the list for the ratio of business travellers compared to overall passenger numbers. 56% of all passengers through ABZ were business travellers. Local rag said this was good news for the area, but does it not show that the local economy is still too dependant on the one industry - O I L? Fine when times (like now) are good, not so when, as we saw a few years ago, oil is in decline. I thought ABZ management wanted to promote ABZ as a destination for more leisure passengers, but I guess we'll always have the oil & gas industry as a fundamental part of ABZ & the local economy. We can't get away from it (& should we??)

[tangoecho]

On the two Fr routes Dublin is getting more pax, but liverpool isn't to far behind suprisingly.

I personally think (working at the airport) that there isn't much in it to the amount of inbound/outbound pax numbers.
There are days when less come in then go out or vice versa on each of the two flights. But you get that with any flight really don't you.

As for the other destinations with Loco carriers, anywhere you can go for next to nowt people will fly there. (Just my opinion):p

Stu...:ok:

[Mister Geezer]

Call me a sceptic but after giving GSM some thought I can't see them staying in ABZ past the summer of 2007. Sit and think of how many holiday destinations that they will be able to survive on during the winter months when you consider that the aircraft will need to fly 7 days a week and loads to the Med take a dip from the summer levels. I simply can't help but think that Aberdeen can't support a 737 during the winter unless GSM throw in some ski and city break destinations but even then it could be a struggle!!!

[dwlpl]

On the two Fr routes Dublin is getting more pax, but liverpool isn't to far behind suprisingly.

Why is it surprising?

[Richard Taylor]

GSM: Don't suppose anyone will know until nearer the time, when we might get an idea of how bookings are on the various routes. As I said before, GSM may find some routes will work, some may need "tweaking" & others won't work, assuming ABZ is like every other airport in the world where routes come & go! If GSM stick around for W07, then I could imagine one or two "ski" routes, something that ABZ has never been particularly well-blessed with. Think last regular ones were Swissair (MD80) in the 80s. Also maybe PRG & Berlin as "citybreak" destinations for GSM. I doubt they will pull out of ABZ without giving us a chance. Of course their first route actually starts next Fri, TFS, initially using a B738.

New routes from flyBE (EXT-LBA-ABZ) & bmi Baby (BHX) start today, BE644 just left for the return trip. WW due this evening.

Interesting to see the two BE DH8Ds arrive one after the other, & also ditto the RYR B738s - shape of things to come??? ;)

Local paper will have a feature on KLM this coming week, with their future plans for ABZ. Whether that means new routes or just better seat cushions remains to be seen! Or it could be ANOTHER try at a SVG route!!

[tangoecho]

Why is it surprising?

I mean't surprisingly getting good loads so soon after starting that's all. :rolleyes:

Also Flybes' LBA/EXT had 50 odd pax on the flight back.
Also Baby had 80 odd booked for their maiden flight back to BHX.

Liverpool flight 150 odd pax returning to LPL. Still lookin good.

Stu...:ok:

[dwlpl]

..... keep posting the figures.

[Wellington Bomber]

Never mind the numbers, how much did the 50 pax pay or the 150 RYR pay, thats what matters?:ugh:

I wish people would understand this!

[dwlpl]

Why are you worried?

Ryanair are masters at making money.

[jabird]

WB,

Yields I looked at seemed low, but I'm sure there's more car rental income here than there might be at somewhere like EDI. Also, this is a very short sector, so might just squeeze in quite nicely with the other schedules and keep a/c usage rates high.

Occupancy levels and yields are both very key factors, but they aren't the be-all and end-all.

[tangoecho]

Just realised at work today that RyanAir don't run the DUB-ABZ-DUB flight on Tuesdays and Wednesdays now.:*

I just can't understand why they're canx the flights as Dub is very popular.

Stu...:confused:

[Richard Taylor]

OK, so it wasn't the seat cushions! :rolleyes:

Vincent Knoops, KLM's Gen Mngr for UK/Ireland, has said (apparently) that KLM would "definitely consider" operating a service between Aberdeen & Houston, subject to two major obstacles being cleared:

1. Runway extension being implemented
2. Current treaties which restrict UK-US operations to airlines from those 2 countries only - open skies therefore a prequisite.

Oh yeah, &:

* Taxiways widened
* Terminal area expanded to accomodate it
* Flying pigs
* Blue moon (believe I saw one once!)

Subject to these obstacles being removed, Mr Knoops said that one of two *"Jumbo jets" could be re-routed between AMS & IAH to pick up pax at ABZ.

* Bear in mind the phrase "Jumbo jet" appeared in the local press, exercise caution! :}

If this ever happened, I could - just - envisage 767s or A330s of KLM appearing here, assuming the talk between ABZ, George Bush Intl & "an unnamed US airline" - CONTINENTAL - stall.

What do the other ABZ bods think?

[aeulad]

I would imagine that it would be something along the lines of KLM's AMS-IAH with the privatair 73G. Not so far fetched at all in my opinion. CO have indeed also examined such a route.

Regards

Mike

[Richard Taylor]

Didn't mean to be such a cynic but..........will believe it when I see it!

Maybe KLM are worried that, if a IAH-ABZ service with said "unnamed US airline" ever comes to pass, they will lose out on a lot of their traffic that currently route ABZ-AMS to link up with IAH flights.

[Richard Taylor]

Good luck to FlyGlobespan, their first ABZ route starts later today, TFS with the B738.

Interesting news re BA Connect & flyBE, what implications for BHX-ABZ & MAN-ABZ routes that BACon currently fly? If any. I read that flyBE won't take the BACon fleet which, if correct, mean a lot of spare units sloshing about. Could Eastern be interested in picking up a couple of these (be it E145 or DH8C) & expanding ABZ ops with them.

[toledoashley]

Think the Air Southwest would take some of the DH3's and maybe BD for the 145's - these could even go stateside???

[Richard Taylor]

bmi Reg acquired 2 more E145s recently - G-RJXN in service now & 'XO now at ABZ being readied for service. Suppose not beyond the bounds of possibilities that they could acquire more, but I agree not all 145s will remain in the UK.

Re the DH8C, T3 had one on demo to them at HUY, which also appeared for a short time at ABZ (routed HUY-ABZ-HUY). So T3 may take one or two, WOW will probably take a couple as well I would think. Although T3 did say they were happy with what they had (JS41/SB20) & weren't looking for any "new" types. Things can change of course. T3 used to have E145s, but disposed of them in favour of the SB20, which IIRC suited T3 better - more fuel efficient for the routes they use/d them on. (Don't know why, I've never been a particular fan of the Saab...looks too much like an ATP to me!)

[Wellington Bomber]

RT

Only about twice as fast as an ATP ( wolf in sheeps clothing)

Heard that T3 were not impressed with Dash Q300, nothing like Q400 old style analogue cockpit and no where near the speed of saab 2000

[Richard Taylor]

Well it looks like ABZ WILL be a winner in the BACon/flyBE shake up. Mike Rutter, flyBE's chief commercial officer, has said the plan is for ABZ to become a fully fledged flyBE base by next summer! It is possible that 3-4 aircraft could become based, flying 15-20 domestic sectors, plus possibly some Scandi routes. An ABZ-SOU route may be next, up & running by next summer. Any base could bring up to 400 jobs in the next 18mths.

INV also expected to become a smaller base, said the same report; BHD-INV due to start next month. (Base 2-3 aircraft, about 10 destinations envisaged, up to 250 jobs).

FlyGlobespan's ABZ-TFS launched yeaterday (merited only a small paragraph in the paper, unfortunately I think, due to the flyBE front page). Routed via GLA.

Tim Jeans of Monarch, reported that the AGP-ABZ route averages 86% load factor since launch, far in excess of its expectations. Looks like now operates M, W & Sa for the winter, with a mid afternoon arrival rather than late evening. Could MON look at more ABZ routes, or has it "missed the boat" in view of GSM's forthcoming expansion?

[throw a dyce]

Heard twitterings about Air Berlin? running Aberdeen -Stansted soon.Not sure about frequency etc.Comment from BMI pilot the other day after he landed that it was like Heathrow?!.BAA get your cement mixer out pdq.Oh and order a new baggage carousel.The ONE in the terminal is getting a bit crowded.:ugh:

[Richard Taylor]

The super-duper Masterplan is overdue, so perhaps the BAA are having to revise it PDQ! We may get another carousel after all!! Or another shop. :mad:

Already things are crowded despite the 2 new domestic stands. As TAD says, only 4 intl stands just ain't enough either - I've heard a/c parked as high up as Stand 8 for an intl dept. I think we need more than just 16 stands already, despite the double-parking we get on one or two of them.

We have 3 heli cos. whose terminals, despite the current boom, are not operating on full capacity & never will get back to the halcyon days of the early 80s. I've said this before, but couldn't they be persuaded to agree a deal to let the likes of T3, X9, etc operate from there? Or are the logistics of it unworkable? Or move the Flightlines to the Bristow/Scotia terminals.

Needs must?

As for the LHR comparison, was certainly busy yesterday evening! Ground freq open to 2030hrs was testiment to that, as the Twr was busy co-ordinating all the traffic, incl the heli trainers. No wonder they disappear to INV/DND/offshore these days - can Longside still be used for circuits, or is it off-limits with all the light GA there now?

About time someone returned to STN, ridiculous that it's taken 7 yrs & counting to attract a new airline onto a route that had around 100K pax carried annually before it got da chop.

[throw a dyce]

The Masterplan seems to be a 300M runway extension,and perhaps the Damon Hill stand (0).After that not sure.The helicopter areas are all leased areas,and are no go areas generally.That way the BAA don't have to snow clear those areas.
The helis are going to other places because they cannot be fitted into the circuit anymore.There is extra capacity at the weekends for training,but they don't want to use it.They are a severe pain in the backside,and a lot can't accept that they are at the bottom of the food chain.Just last night BND held for 50 mins in the ADN hold waiting for a gap for a procedural approach.
I worked there in the ''wonderful'' 1980's and it's as busy now as it was then.We have a lot more PC things to do now,so our workload is much higher.Then the whole thing descends into chaos,cos the BAA can't pour enough concrete,or the baggage carousel is jammed up.

[Cactus99]

How many remember this A330 at ABZ,

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0275168&size=L&width=1024&height=720&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20YVXR%20%27Nveohf%20N330 %25%27%29%20NAQ%20%28cynpr%20%3D%20%27Noreqrra%20-%20Qlpr%20%28NOM%20%2F%20RTCQ%29%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cub gb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=2

A KLM 330 to IAD may one day be a very viable option for them!

[Richard Taylor]

And it was full, bringing in German football fans for a UEFA cup match Aberdeen v Hertha Berlin.

May not see those days again! :{

[Mr R Sole]

Come on folks... lets face it that the terminal is a joke nowadays in many respects. It is inadequate for the peak periods that we have nowadays and woefully inadequate for any expansion that takes place.

Heard that GSM's first flight was a shambles with check in problems and the security queue going right back to the domestic reclaim with pax from other flights being affected as well. Was told it left a couple of hours late.

The BAA need to remember that it is not a shopping center they run but in fact an airport. Extra security channels (with staff!!) and extra seating capacity in the departure lounge is needed. Sadly there is no room left to expand unless major reconstruction work takes place.

The design of the terminal and the airfield to some extent doesn't allow any significant expansion. The recent work to extend the departure lounge which required stand 4 to be closed was far too little and far too late!

[throw a dyce]

Well if the BAA were serious then they need a Terminal 2.Use the present terminal as domestic.Where the current cargo building is located,build a brand new international terminal with extra stands,that could take widebodies.
The last piece of brand new concrete was the C taxiway,and they had to do that because of ICAO ruling on rotor clearances.It is the width of a pavement,and the widest fixed wing allowed is a Cessna 172.
Meanwhile in the real world brand new airport have been built at Kansai,HongKong,Bangkok,Kuala Lumpur.Singapore is rapidly expanding.Even Manila built a new international terminal,and that country hasn't got 2 halfpennies to rub together.HongKong blew up an island,and constructed the airport,road and rail link,3 suspension bridges,2 rail terminals and a tunnel is about 7 years.
Meanwhile we got a bookies,and most of the seats removed.Better get the departure tent cleaned and stuck up again.

Ps Cactus Anything bigger than an A300,or B767 can't fit on the apron.They park big beasties on 23.That causes a vast amount of vehicle runway crossings.Just what the CAA are trying to prevent with runway incursion policy.

[Richard Taylor]

Well they'll need to getamoveon! 14% inc in pax numbers Oct 2006 v Oct 2005 - biggest in BAA Scot (BAA overall?) this time. Rolling Annual Total 3.1m.

See there was a "medium sized beastie" today with a BA A321 - is this the first time a BA A321 has appeared here?

Aberdeen Planning Committee, after much tea 'n' biscuits, has recommended approval today for the runway extension to the full Cooncil when they meet to justify their salaries next week. Could hardly do anything else could they??? (Well they COULD.....:uhoh: )

How feasible would it be to "rip it up & start again"? Are there any greenfield sites around that WOULDN'T incur the wrath of some NIMBY somewhere?

Should've built that heliport out at the Bridge of Don when they had the chance in the 80s!!!

[Richard Taylor]

COME ON BAA, NOT GOOD ENOUGH! :mad:

An arrival from SVG (City Star) shoved into Runway 01 as all 4 (4!!!) international stands taken.

With the likes of GSM, T3, BE, possibly RYR expanding or hinting at expanding home & abroad, we need more stands NOW! International & domestic.

BAA, if you are constantly talking to airlines, which you say you are, then SURELY you must see the need to expand facilities to cope, instead of ABZ being stuck in a 70s/80s time warp. That's whether or not the extension to the runway is granted (which it seems it will be).

Does the BAA listen to ANYONE who actually KNOWS what is required, or does it just listen to its bean counters, who seem to want to concentrate resources on the likes of T5 at LHR for London Airways, or the shiny new terminal at STN? HOW ABOUT ABZ, WHICH HAS BEEN BAA SCOTLAND'S FASTEST GROWING FOR THE PAST 2 YEARS OR SO?

Don't we count?

OH, & sort out the CR@P transport facilities at the terminal. Only ONE taxi firm allowed to set down passengers at the terminal, & a rubbish bus service.

WELCOME TO ABERDEEN...NOT!! :mad:

[Ed Set]

Quite agree-The "new" stands didn't really give us any more space-merely rationalised what we have been using for the last several years. What we desperately need is a stand 1/2 or1/4 at the southern end of the main apron-preferably both that will be big enough to handle A321s or similar.
Having recently returned from holiday into Aberdeen, I HAVE to say that at long last the Airport actually looks like a semi decent facilty at last-shame that it is already too small!!
What it REALLY needs though is another carousel. We waited for our bags along with three other flights at the same time-utter chaos!!
Not even Heathrow makes you wait with three others- AND they have a damn sight more carousels....
Ed:ugh:

[Richard Taylor]

Indeed Ed, all the Stands 15 & 16 have done is to reduce the available parking on the Delta Apron if 15 & 16 are in use, or at the very best not change anything if they are empty, as they were parking aircrcaft there previously anyway. The actual available area hasn't enlarged just because there are the new stands, no wonder 01 is back in use after god knows how many years.

I agree with TAD re the cargo terminal, seems logical to extend the terminal to there, or build a new terminal for international flights there. Of course that leaves the problem of where to put the cargo terminal, presuming we still wish to see cargo flights & the array of Antonovs etc that arrive here.

If the Sppedbird Inn own the farmland & lease it to the farmer, can the BAA not come to a deal to rent it from Speedbird at a higher rate than the farmer does & proceed to build more parking & a new cargo terminal there? That's the only place I can think of that the airport could expand to...if it wasn't for those damn sheep! (Where's that mysterious puma that supposedly skulked about the airport/industrial estate when you need it!)

Re the runway extension, would the BAA have "primed" the contractors in anticipation of an approval by the Council, so that, when the go ahead is given, the BAA can proceed almost immediately? Or would they wait (which given my preception of them would be entirely likely) until better weather in Spring 2007? Or daren't they assume anything, given our "Cooncil"?

Finally is your Perwinnes Radar due back soon from its maintenance/overhaul, & will it be any better (ie. upgraded), or is it going to be just the same.

[letMfly]

Finally is your Perwinnes Radar due back soon from its maintenance/overhaul, & will it be any better (ie. upgraded), or is it going to be just the same.
The Perwinnes is due back in service mid-December. No improvement in performance, just a repair to the crumbling antenna which was starting to suffer significant corrosion.
It will make a big difference to the current service (using the Alanshill radar, near Fraserburgh) as we will be able to use three mile separation again instead of five miles and the Offshore ATCOs will be able to see traffic to the South-East.:ok:

[Mr R Sole]

When you take a look at Southampton, which is a BAA airport, you see that Aberdeen has had a bum deal in many respects. Southampton's route network puts Aberdeen's to shame. Perhaps one could safely assume that Aberdeen ranks at the bottom of the BAA UK Empire?

[letMfly]

Mr Sole, When you take into account all the rigs served from Aberdeen, it probably ranks just beneath Heathrow in destinations served!:E

[throw a dyce]

ABZ has got 4 terminals,and 4 runways as well. 3 of each for helis.Oops forgot that helis don't count.
Perhaps better use of the stands is an option.There seems to be a lot of stands used by Eastflight jetstreams.They don't need steps and perhaps the C apron,or 01 might be more appropriate.Seems daft to have jets waiting for international stands,while they are taken by a/c that can self manoeuvre.Even extend the c apron or 01.Buy some busses.
The next jet that I have to hold for 25 mins is going on to 23 on the East side:E

[Richard Taylor]

Did the ATA B757 that landed with the WWE wrestlers today get put onto 23 or east apron? Can the east apron take a 75?

[Wellington Bomber]

Throw A Dyce

I have been to Aberdeen many times, and the amount of aircraft that sit on stands for hours doing nothing amazes me. Especially the Flightline aircraft which sit amongst the Eastern a/c around stands 12 /13

Also there are a number of night freighters which could be moved during daylight hours from the new stands :ugh:

[throw a dyce]

East apron can take a 757 as long as it's towed there.Probably got a stand (2 or 7)first then towed across.Wasn't there today,so I'm just guessing.Can't see a bunch of WWE wrestlers fitting in Signature mobile.;)

[throw a dyce]

Wellington,
The only night freighters live in the D apron (a Antonov),and in front of the tower(a pair of Shorts).The Flightlines can have no go days where the wx is too bad in the East Shetland Basin.They also sit around all weekend.However they live mainly on Stand 15 and 16 now.
It doesn't take much for chaos to ensue somedays.Bad slots,a few delays,the odd div in and breakdown and watch out.The maximum I have held waiting for stands is 4 at one time.We had to backtrack others to get them on other stands,which can cause go arounds.The other problem that holding causes the GMC controller,with massive problems especially getting helis in and out of their aprons.The BAA don't give a stuff.We now have LESS area to park than before,as new stands have to have room for vehicles.It still just the old concrete dug up and re-named.
I think if Mr Flower (Mang dir BAA ABZ)came up to ATC and did GMC on a really Sh:mad: ty day it might open his eyes.Just watch it will be runway extension approved,mega smiles all round.Still waiting 30 mins for a stand.:ugh:

[roach]

A few things that need sorting!
1. The problem of boarding and disembarking international flights at the same time, what a shambles.
2. Aircraft calling for push when they are not ready.
3. Aircraft taxying for departure too early for their slot and other aircraft having to wait for take off.
4. Crews having to clear customs when there are no customs in attendance.
5. Can ATC have the full departure clearance available prior to start, not having to wait for the squawk on taxy?
6. How about a dedicated clearance frequency at busy times?
ABZ ATC are second to none by the way! I know you must be undermanned and under resourced.

[Richard Taylor]

Ultimately, shouldn't the BAA when it took control of ABZ in the 70s not have built its shiny new terminal on the east side of the airport, leaving the west side clear for future expansion? Plus the railway station at Dyce could also have been the stop for ABZ, it being...on the east side!

Heck, they could even have kept 23/05 (or 24/06 as it was) clear for fixed wings, instead of having a helicopter complex at the end of the line!

Or is that hindsight.

The 2 Shorts reminds me of the story about a Lady Controller here having a pilot slipping in behind her Shorts (that were on finals ahead of him). Can't be a true story...can it??? :E

[throw a dyce]

Roach,
To try and answer some of your points.
1.Build a new International Terminal.Leave the existing one for Domestic.:E
2.We have a problem with some foreign airlines.Most GMC controllers know who they are and try to prevent it,if they have time.
3.You can depart within the slot minus 5 to plus 10 mins.Given 10 mins for start and taxi,I will tell the pilot to expect start 15 mins before slot.I will not give earlier start if it blocks the airport.Let them whinge don't care.
4.Nazis storm troopers.:mad:
5.We tried getting squawks from Scatcc in advance,but they complained that the Tay sector was drowning in strips.The squawk is only requested on start up,but can give the rest of it prior to start.
6.Yup agree with you there,but Nats management wouldn't.They think it's a sleepy little hollow,with a couple of jetrangers.They are only interested in places below Hadrians wall,and especially the London area.It's been like that since the Oil started.
I've always said that it's a tricky place to validate both Tower and Radar.Our management has destroyed terms and conditions,and moral over the last 15 years,and it is the lowest pay in Nats now.The job is just a difficult as ever and the place has always had a high turnover in staff.The Airport ATCOs ain't happy.:uhoh:

[throw a dyce]

RT,
Dyce station was closed just in time for the Oil Boom to start.:ugh: Planning:ugh:
The terminal was far too small when it opened in the 70's.I don't think the east side could have taken it.
Not sure about the Shorts story.I did hear about the lady controller who asked an aircraft what his speed was.190 kts was the reply.''Can you keep it up til 4 miles?''..............Certainly!!:O

[Richard Taylor]

So the Council Planning Committee recommended approval, but it appears when it came to the vote today that the runway extnsion has been passed to a meeting of the full Council next month. In other words, a deferral.

Or have they approved it, only to ask the full Council to rubber stamp their rubber stamp??

If there's ONE thing oor COONCIL is good at, it's :

P R O C R A S T I N A T I O N .

"Maer tea 'n' biscuits Bert, wiv anither meetin soon. Mine yer simmit it'll be caul".

:rolleyes: :ugh:

[scotsunflyer]

Wasn't there today,so I'm just guessing.

ATA 757 positioned to Edinburgh where it operated the flight back with the WWE stars at 0235 to JFK today.

[throw a dyce]

Farce of the day.Air France on stand 4 pushes back but then goes tech and is pulled back on stand.Ryanair from Dublin re-allocated stand 1,the only one left available.Apron then advise that Immigration are preventing the Ryanair going on the stand,because they don't want passengers mixing with other ones.??!!:ugh: :D
Subsequent 4 aircraft land and are held behind for 15-20mins,burning the earths resources.Airport grinds to a complete halt.They then let the Ryanair on Stand 1 but won't let the pax off ??!!.This is an flight from another country not being allowed on an international stand.As usual ATC have to try and explain all this crap to the bewildered pilots.
It's about time that bunch of muppets in customs and immigration woke up and joined the EU.They are the rudest,most arrogant and ignorant bunch of :mad: that I have ever seen at any airport in the world.Especially if you arrive from Amsterdam.Total joke:mad:

[letMfly]

It's about time that bunch of muppets in customs and immigration woke up and joined the EU.They are the rudest,most arrogant and ignorant bunch of :mad: that I have ever seen at any airport in the world.Especially if you arrive from Amsterdam.Total joke:mad:

Hey TAD, that's a very brave (or daft) thing to say on these boards. Her Majesty's finest outing committee are probably working on your I.D. as I type. Standby for the full rubber glove treatment when you next fly in to Mickey Mouse International:eek:

[throw a dyce]

Nurse The Screens!!:eek: :E
Just goes to show that it doesn't take much to screw up Disney(work) land.We haven't got enough stands without this as well.They were backed up to W1.:mad:

[5711N0205W]

Arrived back from OSL the other night and not allowed to disembark as a KLM was also disembarking so sat in the aircraft until allowed off some minutes later and joined the immigration crew behind the cloggies.

I assume this was a segregation exercise for immigration as the ground toastie id'd the first Oslo pax to the immigration bods. How do they manage at other airports where pax may not turn up to immigration in flight order?

Plus side was that bags were on the belt by the time we had cleared immigration, first time I have seen this...:)

Cheers
5711

[Inverted81]

yeah great to have your bags there for when you arrive at the carousel with everyone else, just hope your bag is still there and hasn't been nicked, by some reprebate off of the street.
I've always thought it strange that baggage reclaim is just inside the front doors! :ugh:

[youngskywalker]

I second Dyce's comments re customs at ABZ! Having recently arrived international, they make US immigration look positively friendly!

And I've always been curious as to why they need to wear gold bars on the shoulder, they are not ships Captains or Aviators, the only thing they steer is a rubbered hand up yer ar.. :eek:

[Richard Taylor]

Speaking of ar..:eek: ses, I see Ryanair has slammed the decision to defer the runway extension application to the full council when they meet 13/12.

They speak of an unnecessary delay in their plans to launch a European route, which could potentially carry 100,000 pax (:hmm: ).

Also the LPL route is restricted say the airline, max 176 pax on a 189-seater plane, due to the runway length.

Supposedly 12 new routes out of ABZ are waiting on the runway extension decision being approved (wonder who the airlines are if that's true).

See the oil price is going down again, so it may be all academic!!

Wonder what Donald Trump thinks of all this. If he sees the city council unable to decide on a runway extension, what chance the shire council approving his pitch & putt course at Menie?? :uhoh: (By the way does his 727 have it's own "spot" at ABZ? Might have to get a gold-plated one if his golf course becomes reality...:} . I hear 23 might be available...:E )

[dwlpl]

FR: 60-odd pax on a 738 both ways doesn't sound that encouraging.

The provisional CAA stats for October is showing an average 98 pax per flight on the new Ryanair Liverpool/Aberdeen route.

[Data Dad]

5711

With regards your Oslo arrival - Norway is not an EU Member state therefore different immigration rules apply hence segregation from an EU arriving flight.

One other point to remember is that despite the massive increase in International flights and passengers at Aberdeen over the last couple of years - I don't believe there has been any increase in Customs/Immigration staff numbers - perhaps that needs looked at by those in charge?

Not defending their actions - just putting forward a different perspective!

Regards

DD

[throw a dyce]

DD,
Looks like Custom/Immigration rule the roost as far as International stands are concerned.Next time it happens I'll just back them up on W and tell the pilots to complain to them.Glooves:} :eek: .There seemed to be plenty of staff on the other night dishing out their special brand of glumness to everyone off the KLM.It does seem noticeable that the AMS gets the treatment,even though you were a transit pax and never left Schipol.They must sell wacky tulips I guess.Mind you more than one 737 load and you're standing outside anyway.:uhoh:

[roach]

Thanks for your comments in response to mine, throw a dyce!
I reckon the airport would run a lot more efficiently if pilots and ATC got together and told the BAA how to run Dyce!
It's been a long time since ATC jumpseated, is this a result of 9/11? I always thought it was a great way for each group to see each others operational problems.

[GW76]

The provisional CAA stats for October is showing an average 98 pax per flight on the new Ryanair Liverpool/Aberdeen route.If the 738 can carry 180 passengers , then thats only about half.
They'll need to do better than that. Early days though, and is the 738 not seat restricted out of ABZ?

[throw a dyce]

Roach,
Yes 9/11 put and end to the fam-flights virtually overnight.It's a very big step backwards,especially for younger Atcos who have never been up front.I have managed to see many types and it was all extremely usefull.But we are treated like terror suspects even going to work at security.I can think of some very easy ways of killing a lot of people in my job,but a tin of soup in my rucksack isn't at the top of the list.God only knows what we might do in a jump seat.:ugh:
As for Dyce International it would be nice if the BAA would listen.There are times of the day when the place is absolutely full,and that's without anything going wrong.Many years ago they asked us for suggestions on improving the place;stands taxiways etc.Not one has appeared.Well the long waits on the taxiway will grow,and I really don't care anymore.If the pilots complain,then I just pass the buck.Even give out their phone number.:E

[Mister Geezer]

Fam flights still exist and the fact that 9/11 stopped them is a myth however some companies will be more flexible than others! It seems the onus seems to be on the controller to arrange it rather than NATS etc teaming up with operators and offering fam flights to controllers and assistants - which of course would be easier! The fact that the trip neeeds to be done on a day off is another factor that might turn off some who may have hectic lives outside work and may not wish or can devote the time.

My current company and my previous have been more than willing to have ATCOs and ATSAs on the jumpseat on a fam flight (post 9/11) and the ops manual from my current company clearly states that ATC staff are allowed jumpseat access on pre-arranged fam flights. Normally a couple of e-mails between ATC and the operator concerned is all that is required and any bits of security paperwork getting filled in by the operator.

[Richard Taylor]

Reading about BA withdrawing/dropping/"suspending" their LGW-NCL flights at the end of March 2007, one of 3 LGW routes that BA are stopping, permanently or otherwise.

I was under the impression that pax numbers on LGW-ABZ were dropping (compared to 2005) or at least static - some flights full, others half full/half empty, depending on how you view it.

I wonder what the future holds for the route with BA, with rumours of them pulling out of LGW in favour of LHR T5.

Or does the oil industry ensure high yield pax wanting to connect on the likes of DFW & IAH.

Also re freight flights, notice BAC Express using a 360 on EMA, rather than Benair, who still do EDI with their 360. Are Benair down to one "Shed" now at ABZ, and will BAC eventually take over the other mail flight also.

[tangoecho]

BenAir have one shorts here doing the Edi mail flight. The other BenAir shorts is in Belfast for a week doing mail to Gla. It will be back and then go to do mail charter from Inv for a while.
The reason for BAC getting the other mail run is (told by a BenAir pilot) that they (BAC) lost another contract down south and if they didn't get this one they would go into recievership.
Also Royalmail didn't want just one airline doing the mail flights after the Emerald fiasco earlier in the year.
Also Benair will have another Shorts arriving in Abz soon to make 3 based here.
Benair have 7 mail contracts in Scotland so far.

Stu...:ok:

[Richard Taylor]

Will we have an allotment for all these Sheds...:)

Presume they will park on the Alpha apron, or is there not enough room for all of them.

Given that we also see Metros & LET410s of Benair here at times too, they may need to get access to/build their own hangar???

[Richard Taylor]

Looking at the plans for the "world's greatest golf course" offically lodged today he doesn't do things by half, does he?!

£1bn or $1bn, either way, a lot of dosh!!!

If he gets permission to go ahead, will ABZ really be "swamped" by golf tourists, on schedules & bizjets? Or is it one big white elephant.

Personally speaking, I hope he gets the OK to proceed, would rather see a potential multi-multi million pound boost to the local economy than a load of huggy-fluff environmental birdwatchers looking for an orange throated diver or whatever it is. :ugh:

[throw a dyce]

White elephant.There are loads of golf courses already,and these people aren't going to spend mega bucks to come up here,and be blown off the side of a Balmedie sand dune.They will stay with Carnoustie,St Andrews etc.
As for the airport then it won't make any difference,apart from a few more golf bags at ''The carousel''.Trump will lose a lot of money and sell up,or pull the plug.
Why is it everywhere has to be covered in football pitches,or golf courses? Can we not leave things alone?

[Richard Taylor]

Been told that ABZ appears as a potential UK departure point for 2007 with Goldtrail.

Dalaman, Antalya, Bodrum, Izmir, then Palma & Tenerife Sth appear as potential destinations, although these are shown for all UK departure points.

Thought Turkey was too far away without a runway extension, so maybe Goldtrail are waiting for this to be finally finally finally approved by councillors before anything is announced officially?

Don't think Goldtrail have offered holidays out of ABZ before.

[Mr R Sole]

Direct to Cyprus used to be done so Turkey should be manageable. Eurocypria used to use a 320 and a 738.

[Richard Taylor]

Increase in pax nos. Nov 2006 v Nov 2005.

278,617 passed through ABZ the month just gone.

That's some increase.

Nos. boosted by LPL (RYR), BHX (Baby), TFS (GSM).

BHX fastest growing domestically (more than doubled) , EBJ internationally.

TFS & AGP had a 40% increase combined.

Full council votes on the runway ext next week, final Masterplan thereafter?

[Richard Taylor]

ABZ appears in Air Scotland's booking engine, don't see any destinations though. INV, MME & HUY also appear as potential dept points.

So are Air Scotland considering a return to the ABZ market? What is it, 5 years or so since they were last here?

Flights first time around weren't a success, albeit where we were back then is a world away from the success story that is ABZ at the moment - well in terms of increasing passengers/movements at any rate!

Has ABZ always appeared in the booking engine, or is this recent.

What destinations could they serve, & what type a/c - 757?

As I recall, BCN & PMI were served last time, both now GSM destinations this coming summer.

Not necessarily the case they WILL launch anything, but why put ABZ on if you weren't planning anything.

[Richard Taylor]

Full Council have voted 33 - 6 in favour of the runway extension.

Common Sense 1 - 0 Huggy Fluffs! :ok:

However, will BAA proceed, given that OFT have recommended an enquiry into the BAA monopoly position at UK airports.

[tangoecho]

The runway ext. will begin in the new year. plans are all done and was just waiting for todays good news.

Hooray...:ok:

stu...:D

[Richard Taylor]

Stu or anybody,

Will the BAA publish their Masterplan final draft soon, now that the ext has been approved?

Was watching the pathetic environmental protestors (all 20 of them!) outside the Town House protesting! I'll bet most of them drive to work, work in the oil industry & fly away on holidays! :ugh:

[tangoecho]

I'm sure they will Richard. If not on BAA website already:ok:

Stu..:D

[Golf Alpha Whisky]

Runway extension is one thing but its not THAT simple there will have to be a significant upgrade in infrastructure in terms of the terminal, car parking, baggage handling etc. I know its all in the Master Plan but the way its being reported in the media is that build a longer runway and hey ho away we go flights to Houston here we come! At least there is now a requirement to upgrade and expand the current pathetic single domestic and single International baggage belt!

As an aside - how will this impact GA at ABZ?

[throw a dyce]

GA will still be a lower priority than scheduled etc.Depends if BAA want to price you out.There are still plenty of times when GA can be fitted in.However they keep wanting to do circuits at the busiest times.Tough:hmm:
Direct Houston on 2150 ish M.That will be interesting.Only aircraft that could fit on the apron is 767 size.Rest are too big for the wee drome.:cool:

[Richard Taylor]

So the revised Masterplan is out.

Immediate £10m investment over the next 2yrs, part of £60m envisaged over 10yrs.

Upgraded estimates of pax to possibly as much as 5.9m by 2030, possibly with as many as 29 stands by same time :hmm: .

In the immediate term, does the extension of the international arrivals hall mean an extension to the actual terminal building, or could it be accomodated within the existing area. AND does this mean a Stand 0?? See no mention of more stands in this initial 2yr programme, although I may have missed it!

Interesting they want one of the stands to be B747/B787-sized for future, assuming the runway is extended beyond what is already going to take place.

[tangoecho]

From what I hear, they will extend out to the DHL cargo building for the new arrival hall. Moving DHL maybe up beside the snowbase.

Stu...:ok:

[throw a dyce]

I heard the runway extension is 120M to start with.That way they don't have to remove a hill.The 300M is much later.Not sure if thats accurate or not.
Wonder if it will get sold off if the BAA has to reduce it's monopoly.:hmm:

[Richard Taylor]

Are the BAA intending to renovate the Intl Arrivals hall first, complete that THEN go on to the initial runway ext, or will both projects proceed together.

Also I did spot mention in the Plan of a Stand 0, but not sure if BAA mean to construct this in the first 2 yrs of investment (which they should be doing) or later.

Also the Plan mentions the closure or POSSIBLE closure of heli rnwy 23 - is that different from the Outline Plan? I thought they were definitely planning to close it as heli nos. dwindled in future yrs.

[tangoecho]

The runway ext. was always gonna be half (of the 300m) first then half in the future. Give or take a few metres:p

A lot of people are under the impression that ABZ will be the first to go in the BAA monopoly saga, I personally think if any have to go It will be GLA in Scotland and LGW down south. Just my opinion.
ABZ has a lot of growth in it yet compared to others in the monopoly.

Stand 0 from what I was told was gonna be complete for flyglobespan starting in the summer. Don't know if this is still the case.

Stu...:ok:

[throw a dyce]

[Also the Plan mentions the closure or POSSIBLE closure of heli rnwy 23 - is that different from the Outline Plan? I thought they were definitely planning to close it as heli nos. dwindled in future yrs.[/QUOTE]
This is just my point that BAA don't understand or give a toss about helis.Perhaps they should realise that a huge number of fixed wing pax come from offshore.OK just cut capacity by a drastic amount,screw up heli training.The heli companies are desperate for machines in the North Sea,and heli movements will continue to be very healthy for many years.The price of oil is not coming back down to 1980's levels ever again.
As for a sell off.Well the cheque is in the post there.Considering the almost non existent investment over the years,then I wouldn't be surprised at all.Just my opinion as well

[sox6]

Master plan at:

http://www.baa.com/portal/controller/dispatcher.jsp?CiID=2ea61bd763f67010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____&ChID=a3741bd763f67010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____&Ct=B2C_CT_GENERAL&CtID=448c6a4c7f1b0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____&Ch=Airport+Expansion&ChPath=Home%5EABZ%5EAbout+BAA+Aberdeen%5EAirport+Expansion&ChIDPath=caf397dc2eb12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____^aa2697dc2e b12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____^dd6697dc2eb12010VgnVCM1000001 47e120a____^a3741bd763f67010VgnVCM10000036821c0a (http://www.baa.com/portal/controller/dispatcher.jsp?CiID=2ea61bd763f67010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____&ChID=a3741bd763f67010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____&Ct=B2C_CT_GENERAL&CtID=448c6a4c7f1b0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____&Ch=Airport+Expansion&ChPath=Home%5EABZ%5EAbout+BAA+Aberdeen%5EAirport+Expansion&ChIDPath=caf397dc2eb12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____^aa2697dc2e b12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____^dd6697dc2eb12010VgnVCM1000001 47e120a____^a3741bd763f67010VgnVCM10000036821c0a)____


05/23 closure mooted on the 2030 land use chart - and I don't mean it'll happen by 830pm!

I've started a thread in Rotorheads.

[Richard Taylor]

If ABZ is going to grow in the manner the BAA think it will in their Masterplan, shouldn't they be keeping 23 open, maybe even extending it to take smaller fixed wings, assuming heli nos. drop as they expect?

Knock down all the houses around Pitmedden Rd (:E ) & stick an ILS on 23.
Also bring back Lawsons of Dyce...I loved their sausages! :}

Who is to say the heli cos. won't make ABZ a "worldwide" training base for the future? They do that to a certain extent now, do they not? Would need 23 kept open then.

Could more use be made of 18, as they do with 32? Always seems to be 16 then 18, yet landing clearance can be given for 32, at least during daylight.

[throw a dyce]

At the moment RWY 23 is used both as a heli runway for landing,but also departing off 05.This increases our capacity.Also it is used for hover work when they are in the circuit,or airtest.The only other place for hover work is on the compass area(very limited) or on RWY 16/34.The BAA do not allow it anywhere else.Close 23 and we are really s:mad: rewed.
RWY 18 and 32 have to integrated with 16/34 operations at all times.They can speed up the flow a bit,but we already do that.The problem is that every movement either crosses,infrindges,departs or lands on 16/34.
I think they are building more houses on the old Lawsons site.As for an IFR approach,then many years ago the CAA and FAA trialed an MLSfor both 16/34 and 23.It worked very well including curved approaches,but the thought of 2 go-arounds of 16/34 and 23 at the same time isn't pretty.That's why 23 is a VFR heli runway with strict cut off points,as far a heli engine faiure etc.
Mind you by 2030 I'll be retired so don't really care.:D
PS Richmond Irish sausages are a very good substitute.:ok:

[roach]

Having operated in and out of ABZ for a number of years I am awaiting developments with interest.
Can anyone explain to me why there has never been a CAT II installation? The runway is just long enough as it is I believe so is it down to surrounding terrain?

[letMfly]

The ILS at both ends is Cat II capable and we have the generators (when they work). As far as I am aware the only things missing for Cat II ops are supplementary approach lighting and Cat II holding points.

[Richard Taylor]

I remember seeing the MLS trials in the 90s - a B727 as I remember & one other.

I heard it speeded up approaches to 2mins & did wonders for the in-flight cooking...pity it fried your brains as well...:hmm:

Could've made Lawsons of Dyce more efficient if it had an MLS over the top of it...;)

[letMfly]

I remember seeing the MLS trials in the 90s - a B727 as I remember & one other.
There was a FAA B727, a King Air and an Air Hanson S76 involved in the trials. I hitched a lift in the 727 for a very interesting and memorable flight. Interesting because curved approaches to 16 were flown from a start point near Balmedie down to 50ft followed by a low-go accellerating at 50ft with a pull-up at over the Bond hanger back to the start point (until a barrage of complaints from Stoneywood stopped it!) Memorable because I remember Throw a Dyce throwing his lunch up in the back :E
As far as I can recall the MLS trials were very successful with one installation allowing approaches to three runways.

[Richard Taylor]

Wasn't a sausage sandwich was it?? :uhoh:

By the way, any truth that ABZ is due a movement from the north early tomorrow morn, about 0001hrs, in the form of S-ANTA?

Not sure aircraft type, but it is a Heavy & may need its Red nav light in the fog. :ok: Just a flying visit though.

A Very Merry Christmas to all on the ABZ PPRuNe forum - eat, drink &....

...if ye can. :ok:

[throw a dyce]

I was definately a vivid shade of green,but the sausage sandwich stayed down,just.Was never a good back seat pilot.:yuk:
I remember the 2 pilots were like The Odd couple and had about 5 heart bypasses between them.What a vomit comet that was.
As far a CatII,I had a BA 737 do a full auto-land one day on 16.No bother at all.Just shows what can be done.Would make a difference when the Haaaaarrr comes in.

[Richard Taylor]

Looks like SAS are going double-daily on this route from Summer 2007, again using Cimber CRJs.

New flight SK 2523/4, in ABZ 0900,out 0930, thus restoring the morning service.

Joins the current SK1521/2 (1555/1630).

Probably :ok:

Edit: Also bmi Reg are introducing a Sat flight on the EBJ run from Jan 2007, according to the bmi website. Unless there was one in the Business Air days, don't believe we've had a Sat flight t/f EBJ before.

[Richard Taylor]

See in local supplement of this morning's chipper paper X9 are again alluding to new routes for 2007, presume out of ABZ (although not necessarily given they launched SVG-GRQ).
Anyone have any thoughts as to which routes they are looking at (& yes I know it still says Reykjavik in their website! :hmm: )
Ta.

[Richard Taylor]

Could be confusing since City Star operate to KristiansUnd!

bmi Reg flights are daily to KRS from 26 Mar.

Edit: Daily except Sat that is! :rolleyes:

Edit II: Thanks to BOAC for putting my innocent query today in the correct place. My mistake for asking. No wonder some people think PPRuNe can be a rude & unforgiving place. Wouldn't be so bad but the thread was initiated from 2001. Obviously must have slipped by my vision. Still no point complaining. I'll stick to the Aberdeen Forum in future. RT 13/1/2007 :ugh:

[throw a dyce]

When is the runway extension(120m) starting?
Or are they going to make some stands first for the summer.All these new services,nowhere to park.:}

[Richard Taylor]

There were surveyors on the 16 undershoot over the weekend.

Hearing City Star may have slots for a STN route?

[Meeb]

City Star are recruiting more crew for 2 further aircraft due to arrive soon.

[Inverted81]

there were a couple of city star flights upto sumburgh from aberdeen the other week... just charters? as i haven't seen them since...

[5711N0205W]

City Star to LSI, one was definitely a charter, crew change for a DSV (Diving Support Vessel) in Lerwick at the time, maybe the other one too.

[Richard Taylor]

T3 have also had a few Sumburger charters. Part of the same thing, or were they helping out Flightline?

[Inverted81]

FLT usually only fly upto scatsta, supporting the bristow op up there. so unless they had a bad crosswind up at PM, then FLT's usually dont route to PB. BUT, depending on whats and who's where each day determines where they will go..

[Richard Taylor]

Thanks 81 :ok:

Andy Flower leaves ABZ to become MD of LGW.

Kevin Brown takes over as ABZ MD, having followed Mr Flower around for the past 6mths.

Mr Brown was previously Customer Services Mngr, I think it was.

Good luck to Mr Broon. :ok:

[tangoecho]

Scandinavian airlines SAS announced yesterday that will launch an additional flight from Aberdeen Airport to Copenhagen on March 25. It will operate double daily serviceson the route.
The morning service, leaving Aberdeen at 09:30, will complement the existing SAS evening service. One-way fares on the route, operated using a 50 seat CRJ Cimber Jet aircraft, start from £72 including taxes

Well not before long as the flight is almost always full.

Stu...:ok:

[Richard Taylor]

It's excellent news Stu, hopefully more to come from City Star & Eastern among others?

Couple of questions for anybody:

How are GSM doing load/yield-wise on their TFS service? I read traffic had shot up 90% since the scheduled route had been introduced. Is that correct?

Also how are BEE doing on the EXT-LBA-ABZ service, & has their arrival impacted on EZE's loads on their LBA-ABZ route.

[tangoecho]

GSM loads are very good.
Last friday when I was on it went out with 145 and came back with 180 pax.
Not on today so don't know about todays loads.

Flybe Leeds/Exeter varies between 30 odd and 60 odd pax. Then it has to pick up and drop of in Leeds so figures could be higher/lower.

So not bad in my opinion.

Stu...:ok:

[throw a dyce]

Saw something in the local rag about BMI starting up to Norway;Kristainsand I think. Also a little birdie whispered with what the airlines are scheduling/proposing for the summer,they are going to be about 6 to 8 stands short at peak times.That's before any delays,diversions,etc..Judging by the BAA's ability to run out of stands now then I hope that this is just a rumour.:D

[Richard Taylor]

TENT AT THE READY!! :}

Meantime, looks as if ABZ will get a Turkish IT flight this summer (it's 1st Turkish route?)

DLM down to operate on Tues - in ABZ 0830, out 0955.

Don't know airline/type...TBA.

[Mister Geezer]

The tent will be outside the terminal entrance for the security queues! I suppose you will end up queuing alongside those waiting for a taxi!

Let’s face it… for the numbers going through nowadays… the facilities are nothing short of a joke!!!

[Richard Taylor]

With the snow on the runway last night came the usual fun & games of pilots asking about the braking action.

ATC had to tell them that they couldn't give the readings they required as, being wet snow, the readings would be unreliable. Makes me wonder why readings are taken if they aren't for the ears of the pilots.

I am sure in olden times the braking co-efficients WERE given, so what changed?

Could the pilots not be given the readings, with the provisio that it is wet snow & therefore possibly not 100% reliable, therefore landing is at pilots' discresion?

Or was there some incident somewhere which resulted in the change.

Not as if Aberdeen hasn't had snow down the years...maybe in the olde days it was more of the dry powdery stuff & not the heavy slushy stuff climate change brings us. :rolleyes:

ps. no criticism of ATC or snow teams, they only apply the rules.

[Meeb]

The equipment currently used to measure braking action does not work on snow covered runways, due to the machine not being able to run along the surface of the ground. There must be ground contact for the Mu Meter to work.

The CAA funded a research project to develop suitable brake friction test equipment, but I am not sure what happened with that, probably still on going.

[Richard Taylor]

Thanks Meeb.

I understand braking action can be given in conditions of compacted snow, but not the wet stuff.

Mister Geezer: I did know the tent would be at the entrance, was just an excuse for a bad gag at ABZ's expense! :} I am sure the tent (same one??) was in use a few years ago when ABZ had transatlantic flights. It's also available for marquees too...:rolleyes:

See NJE have an ad in tonight's paper for pilots, obviously to do with this area becoming a NJE "gateway".

[youngskywalker]

Yes, and more than just a coincidence they are holding the open meeting in Elgin! Fairly obvious who they are trying to recruit!

[Mister Geezer]

youngskywalker

An interesting observation youngskywalker! I think your theory is spot on when NetJets even advertised in the Northern Scot which is the local Elgin rag.

[Richard Taylor]

All gone quiet for now on the new routes front, but see evening paper had a short interview with the new head honcho.

Nothing we didn't know already, bit of a rehash of old news, but he hoped to have transatlantic flights "within 2 yrs".

ARE YOU LISTENING CONTINENTAL OR KLM...?

;)

ps. no news on start of runway ext yet, unless someone knows better.

[Richard Taylor]

'AD I think it was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6LGfJ_2dTI

LOVE the Touch & Go! :D

[youngskywalker]

120m extension?!! Bringing the TORA upto 1949m, I would love to see what sort of long haul they are proposing with that pathetic improvement!

BAA, please stick to doing what you do best, build more over priced shops in the terminal, charge even more for your ridiculous parking or even continue to rip off the flying club with landing charges if that really does give your MD a 'semi', but please refrain from pretending that you know the slightest thing about public transport aircraft performance...:ugh:

[throw a dyce]

What you didn't see with Concorde was what was in front of it on the first run.In this order,A Fournier RF4 motorglider,a Spitfire,a HS748 and Concorde right up it's @....se. All inside 4 miles.Bet you don't see that at Heathrow too often.:ok:
Still couldn't beat the Lightning though:D

[Confirmed Must Ride]

The increased TORA should bring in up to near the same length as BRS?? They support 757 transat no problems.

[Richard Taylor]

Well given the new MD has stated he wants transat flights "within 2yrs" we'll find out soon enough perhaps.

He also reported GSM bookings on their new proposed routes were doing well -does the airline think the same though?

T3 upgrading the WIC & SYY route to JS41 this month - which in reality actually means the last 2 operational JS32s are being stood down by T3.

Anyone think even with BAA investing in ABZ that the airport could do better away from the "monopoly". BAA have woken up to the fact that ABZ is growing, but one feels "too little too late". How long would the initial 120m take to construct. With the recent "warm" weather, shouldn't they have made a start now, or are they waiting for the real spring??

TAD that line-up wasn't too shabby for a Sunday!! :)

[tangoecho]

Runway ext.. to start next year.
Stand 0 to start soon.
And 3 other stands to start soon also. Inbetween charlie and delta taxiways from what i was told.


Stu...:ok:

[Richard Taylor]

Ta Stu but does that mean they are NOT extending the runway this year, not even 120m?

They are concentrating on more stands instead?

There are supposed to be Turkish flights this summer, but I though the runway needed extending for this to happen.

[throw a dyce]

What about any potential helicopter increases?The offshore industry is the busiest in years,which means lots of helis.I know the BAA don't know what a heli is,but someone has to work them.Not surprised about the stand situation.They don't have enough now,never mind the summer.

[roach]

Richard,

Good spot on Youtube!
I was there and remember it well....no one believes me when I tell them it did a touch and go!
Seem to remember an Abz ATC was related to someone on the flightdeck and persuaded them to go one step further than planned! It was on a sight seeing trip with paying pax on board going somewhere North to break the sound barrier.
That days flying was really cut back due to Wx.

[throw a dyce]

Roach,
I'm not sure about the relation in ATC.I think that the HS748 captain used to be on Concorde,but that could be a rumour as well.
On the last day of Concorde operation in 2003,one was out over the North Sea doing the same trip.It descended over Fraserburgh very quickly and dropped through Aberdeen airspace still working Scottish,en route to Edinburgh.I was on radar trying all I could to get it to do a farewell beatup,as it was over Kintore.The captain wouldn't bite unfortunately.That would have got the Evening Depress screaming that night.Oh dear,what a pity,never mind.:{
Ps I don't have a relation in BA at all.

[tangoecho]

Yes, Turkey flight still on for 6 weeks or so in the summer.
No runway ext. needed apparently.

If you think about the Bulgaria and Cyprus flights we have/had I think the turkey charter doesn't need the runway ext.

stu...:ok:

[exlatccatsa]

that might have been Sandy McFarlane he was also on the SK61 before the Hs748, Conc, and now 767 I believe.

[Richard Taylor]

I see BAA will have detailed plans out in Apr addressing future requirements for parking, roads, bus/rail & taxis, to complement the main Masterplan.

BAA admit these issues will need to be addressed urgently, otherwise future growth could be compromised by congestion.

Of interest was the possibility of a "deck" above the existing main car park, presumably meaning a multi-storey, also a direct link to Argyll Rd from the A96 (depending on the construction of the Abdn city bypass, due to be completed in 2011 - :uhoh: )

Oh & more taxis would help. :mad:

[Richard Taylor]

More rumours of STN, but now also BRU as a new route.

[tangoecho]

Yes, Richard I heard it is going to be ABZ-STN-BRU-STN-ABZ.

Stu...:ok:

[Richard Taylor]

Are X9 trying to specialize in this "bus stop route" approach, given they do
ABZ-SVG-KSU as well?

Perhaps their unsuccessful BLK venture could have succeeded had they extended it on to SNN or ORK (reason I pick those two is that they have been served by oil charters in the past).

But is this type of approach successful in short-haul? Not that many routes about that stop off at more than one destination these days - although there may be more than I think, & of course EXT-LBA-ABZ & SOU-NCL-ABZ spring to mind with other operators!

[airhumberside]

Im not convinced they could make ABZ-STN-BRU. They would need to offer times for a business day return from both ABZ to STN and STN to BRU to be successful. And I doubt they could do that.

If say they left ABZ at 0630 the earliest they could depart STN for BRU would be about 0830 which would lead to a late arrival in BRU. For business passengers it would probably be quicker to take the Eurostar or even go from LHR

[Richard Taylor]

To be honest, not sure I think that will work either, perhaps they will need to separate the routes, if indeed it is to be BRU via STN.

Would be interesting to see if a direct BRU route would work.

[Jamesair]

Maybe they should think of doing something via Newcastle...not Brussels, which is already well served, but there could be other possibilities especially a thin route which would benefit from this approach.

[MonkeyB]

If they had any sense then they'd look at Cardiff before somebody else spots the obvious opportunity.

MB

[Richard Taylor]

Monkey B

I wonder if CWL will become a loco route, as LPL has done. I read bmi Baby have a few gaps in their schedule, would they consider adding CWL-ABZ to their BHX-ABZ service?

Alternative is of course that CWL remains unserved for years to come, as STN has been for the past 7 yrs or so.

Wonder why Eastern announced the route then proceeded not to launch any service.

[redstar]

Anybody hear anything about a runway closure in Aberdeen yesterday (5th)?

That was Ryanair's excuse for cancelling ABZ-LPL. Difficult to believe when I'd been sat in the departure lounge watching numerous aircraft movements. :mad:

redstar

[throw a dyce]

Probably snowclosed and couldn't hang around long enough.A lot of airlines don't carry extra holding fuel.Makes you wonder about weather forecasts.

[Richard Taylor]

Speaking of RYR, I see mention was made in the local press that Michael Cawley had reaffirmed RYR's intention, as previously stated by his boss, that the airline would look to launch euro routes from ABZ to Germany, Scandi & possibly Italia if the runway was extended.

With this knowledge, can't the Bee Aay Aay extend the terminal AND runway hand-in-hand, instead of doing one first, then the other (the runway) in 2008.

What's the point of getting approval from the Cooncil after placing great emphasis on how the extension was VITAL for both airport & the local economy, only to then wait a year after approval was given before contructing about half of the extension. I struggle to see the sense.

You may as well get the 300m in now, get it over with, AS WELL AS constructing new stands, extending the terminal & so forth. It looks as if ABZ will need all of these developments soonest.

:mad:

[ABZlad]

I believe that the present local BAA management would dearly love to build the full 300m runway extension, but it won't happen for years (if ever) due to the lack of funds and the huge amount of extra work which would be involved in construction. I have heard that the small hill to the North of the airfield would have to be levelled and there is doubt over whether the reservoir at Overton would infringe the new safeguard area.
A 150m extension (which is bigger than my source originally thought - see page one!) would at least ensure that Embraers could depart with a full load in wet weather. The P and J dream of flying to the States in widebodies will have to wait!
Talking of improvements to the airport, I haven't heard any mention of improving access/egress by road from the Parkhill/Oldmeldrum side. It is a total joke for much of the morning and evening.

[Richard Taylor]

I could lend 'em a spade! :rolleyes:

[Richard Taylor]

OMP:

Yes :ok:

[tangoecho]

I was listening to ATC when FR was on approach on the 5th feb.
He was about 10 miles out and asked for braking action on the runway (after the snow shower) and was told the runway was slush (so many mm's) and couldn't get a proper friction reading because of the slush.

FR wasn't happy with this and ATC put them in the hold until a runway inspection was done.
After about 10 mins ATC told FR the runway was now wet full lengh and they came in for another approach.
They were cleared to land and a light snow shower started again, FR pulled up and said they weren't happy and diverted to EDI.

Now during all this planes were landing and departing. Airfield was never closed during the couple of hours I was listening.

Stu...:ok:

[14 loop]

Don't forget that the 737-800 is not the world's best short field performer. Add in those winglets (crosswind component issues) and the runway contamination and it was probably a sensible call.

[throw a dyce]

So the Ryanair 738's are the new Trident then.There will be a lot div outs if they don't like winter,cross winds etc.Gone are the days when the likes of Danair could sit in the hold for ages waiting for improvements.Guess thats what you get for 1p.:E

[roach]

That will be the same Tridents that would put the centre engine into reverse prior to the flare and still leave tyre marks in the undershoot!
Braking action is a bone of contention....each operator have there own criteria and until the authorities sort this out will continue to cause problems. My guess is that it will take something like the BRS incidents to move things on at pace.

[throw a dyce]

Yep the old ground grippers.I think they put the two outboards into reverse at 10ft but I don't know if it helped stop the thing.
As far as RYR goes I think it seems to be more a policy of always carrying the minimum holding fuel,to please the bean counters,rather than a little extra.The number of times that operators arrive not being able to hold for improvements in runway conditions is significant nowadays.I can look at the wx and see that it's going to snow,yet it comes as a complete surprise to some pilots into Aberdeen.:confused:

[Richard Taylor]

Mickey:

OK, I'll admit to working with Air UK for a time in 1998 (Customer Svs Agt). Spent most of my time dealing with lost luggage & lost passengers! :rolleyes:

Mighty fine airline, sadly about the same time as KLM were coming in to take them over. Not long after I moved on they started axing their ABZ regional services if my memory serves. :{

Still wish I had stuck it out - but shift work (up for 5am start) wasn't my bag!

Yes been following the goings-on at Dyce for 25yrs or so, & remember the Tridents well. Also the BA TriStars that occasionally visited on the LHR run. They must have been impressive on the ground, as impressive as they were on approach or climb out. Wonder how THEY managed to stop in time!

Could BA fill the TriStars anyone remember?

ps. I do still fly as a pax with my current job, mainly to London, but occasionally European as well.

[throw a dyce]

The Tristars were a bit tight on the taxiway,and really tight on stand.I think they had trouble guiding it in,and the rear RB211 was well over the vehicle road.As for airfield performance it seemed far better than a lot of BA's fleet at the time.The Tridents, and BAC1-11 could be marginal in and out of Dyce.I think also that the Tristar came up on a Friday teatime,which was peak time but it was more an aircraft scheduling problem.Maybe they needed all the others on the shuttle routes.Anyway a nice aircraft to fly in.:ok:

[exlatccatsa]

More flights ABZ- LSI this summer

Source: Shetland-news.co.uk

Extra seats for summer flyers

LOGANAIR has increased the number of flights from Shetland to Aberdeen so that during the summer months more than 10,000 seats will be available for passengers.

Announcing its summer schedule, the airline said yesterday (Friday) that due to the addition of an extra flight four days a week, the total number of flights leaving Shetland for Aberdeen will rise from 32 to 36 per week.

There is no change to the number of flights to Glasgow, Edinburgh or Kirkwall and Inverness.

Chief executive Jim Cameron said: "The successful introduction of the Air Discount Scheme, new one-way fares and more direct flights is great news for our customers.

"There has never been a better time for visitors to sample the delights of the Scottish highlands and islands or for island residents to take to the air."

The summer schedule runs from 25 March to 27 October 2007.

With all the extra flights roumoured to be starting this summer. Will Aberdeen be able to cope?

[letMfly]

More flights ABZ- LSI this summer. Will Aberdeen be able to cope?
Depends which bits you are talking about. ATC will cope, the aircraft parking and handling may struggle a bit, but the baggage carousel and the taxis stopped coping years ago!
letMfly

[exlatccatsa]

and the roads to and from the airport???
I was thinking about the stand allocation.. there were instances of 25+ min delays once the a/c were on the ground waiting for stands.. unless the busses get pressed into action a bit more this year I think there'll be a lot more ground delays due to certain a/c only being allowed onto specific stands.

[Richard Taylor]

Announcement tomorrow apparently re a BRU service, but a DIRECT service rather than via STN. Presume this is part of the City Star expansion.

Operational daily ex Sat.

(Cheers Darren for the heads up :ok: )

[tangoecho]

This mornings Heathrow flight was canx BA 1301 due to depart at 06.30am.
The reason:

One of the pilots opened an over wing exit (not realising it was armed) to have a feel of the wing to see if it needed de-iced.:}

A bit of a bad move in my opinion. :ugh:

I'm not sure if this is a standard procedure :rolleyes:

The aircraft finally left for heathrow at 09.30 empty. (not allowed to carry pax with a shoot blown).

It was an A319.

Someone will get a smacked wrist. :p

Stu...:ok:

[Richard Taylor]

Don't know if City Star had plans for BRU, but the announcement of a direct BRU link from 16/4 is apparently by...

bmi Regional.

[Richard Taylor]

And confirmed by bmi Reg.

Once daily indeed ex Sats, from 16/4.

Has that affected City Star plans I wonder, or were they never looking at BRU, just STN only.

Better get Stand 0 ready! ;)

[Richard Taylor]

Ceased trading, according to Jethro's.

If correct, what does the future hold for City Star themselves, they are still flying.

Without the parent, will they still be able to expand & what about the extra 2 DO328s that were supposed to be coming?

Or are their plans all "up in the air".

[tangoecho]

City Stars aircraft to get re-registered in the UK...

I heard:cool:
Stu..:ok:

[Meeb]

City Star split from Landsflug some time ago. City Star is expanding and will remain Icelandic reg for the time being. They are not starting a STN service.

[ATIS31]

Heard that Eastern maybe Increasing ABZ - WIC to 4 times Daily :ok: anybody
any more Info They must be getting good loads on this route has the Air Discount Scheme Helped ? What about Increased flights to SYY ?

[Richard Taylor]

Morning all.

With the continual talk of stand shortages this summer, are there any new airlines that have never served ABZ before in the offing? Most of the expansion tends to be with the based airlines(eg. bmi R, City Star) or airlines with significant ops(eg. Eastern). Anyone know if there are new airlines looking at ABZ, given the continuing growth being experienced?

Good to hear the based operators continuing to expand. Re City Star, I take it they were always looking elsewhere, & that STN/BRU was a "red herring?" From Meeb's post, I also take it that their split from Landsflug hasn't affected plans. Is that Landsflug's livery they carry, any plans to change it?

(I'm old enough to recall Air Ecosse, Peregrine, Bon-Accord A/W & Lakeside, & wish these local operators were still around - I'm obviously biased!! :O )

Read something in the Scotsman newspaper re biz movements at Scottish airports. Between 2001-6, they have more than doubled. EDI up 85%, GLA 35%. No figs for DND or INV. Nor for ABZ, but the story said they had been "flat" at ABZ. Part of the period under review coincided with low oil prices, but more recently things have picked up. So are ABZ biz movements on the way up now, or are they still relatively flat. Is cost of operating into ABZ a prohibitive factor? How much does it cost to send a bizzie up to ABZ?

:ok:

[Flightrider]

bmi regional ABZ-BRU daily service is being achieved by cutting ABZ-AMS down from three to two per day.

[Richard Taylor]

SAS will handle KLM/Air France wef 1/3/07.

They had better add to their one tug!

[Richard Taylor]

All we know for sure is a twice daily BHX route is due to start 10/3 (presumably to replace now the thrice daily BACON BHX equivalent).

Are we any closer to finding our what Flybe intend to plan for ABZ once the BACON deal is finalised...that is, if they are planning anything at all!

Papers suggested a base, new routes, etc - but that's the papers for you!

Anyone have the inside track?

[tangoecho]

I did see a lorry driving around the airport with a large poster on the trailer advertising (pilots and Cabin crew) recruitment day at the thistle hotel.

Also yesterdays (26th feb)Monarch (Malaga) aircraft got injured. Baggage handlers pulling the rear steps away from the aircraft just before departure hit the rear of the wing causing considerable damage to the flaps and ailieron costing £250,000 to repair. (heard)
Damaged aircraft sitting on the eastside for the time being.
Monarch managed to position an aircraft from Gatwick for the pax from ABZ-AGP. Eventually left ABZ about 9pm.

Servisair maybe lose another contract??

Stu...:ok: