Filing ATC flight Plans on the internet

[beerdrinker]

Any news on the alleged introduction of the facility to file ATC flight Plans on the internet (like OLIVIA in France)

[IShotTheSherif]

Hey Beerdrinker...

Where are you expecting this?

It's available in South Africa too...

[M609]

Norway and Sweden as well.

[DutchATCO]

Over here in the Netherlands as well...


peter

[paulthornton]

slight thread creep, but after spending time working in Australia and getting my PPL in the process (so ok, I admit, there was rather more flying and rather less working at some points!) I was amazed when I returned to the UK that a lot of things seemed to be so arcane back home... This being one of them.

Filing and briefing services from Airservices Australia via the Internet was excellent compared to the "Yes, um well, we um, fax it to Heathrow" method here :ugh:

Ah well, we can live in hope it might come some day, I suppose.

[beerdrinker]

Sorry All. Question referred to the UK.

[White Hart]

The project to develop filing of FPLs via the Internet is ongoing. The NATS department involved is expected to relocate to Swanwick (probably in 2007), and if the project is successfully completed, you can expect to see this Internet service made available, in addition to all current flight planning services, sometime after the move takes place.

I cannot see that Internet filing will replace all other means of filing your FPL - not everybody has Internet access, and sometimes a phone call or "the "Yes, um well, we um, fax it to Heathrow" method" actually works better.

Normal service will be provided by Heathrow FBU as usual, and for the currently foreseeable NATS future (which, admittedly, isn't that far ahead!:rolleyes: )

[chiglet]

I [in Manch flight Plans] was passed a departure time 'tother day..."Not filed with us" quote I.
"Ah, it was filed on the Internet last night, but I'll send you a copy"
Partial FPL arrives...send it off to IFPS...Reject.... Plan already in system:confused: I though that if IFPS had a Flight Plan they had to tx it to ALL interested parties?
BTW the FPL was sent from Vienna :{
watp,iktch

[Scott Voigt]

Been doing it for years here in the US...

[samos]

Can I ask a question about filing flight plans on the internet, in these countries that already have this facility who is responsible for making sure that the flight plan is addressed to the correct addresses?

[Scott Voigt]

Samos;

In the US the provider is responsible...

regards

Scott

[LN-ATC]

Can I ask a question about filing flight plans on the internet, in these countries that already have this facility who is responsible for making sure that the flight plan is addressed to the correct addresses?
In Norway:
The AIS/flight plan offices (local and central) are responsible for addressing VFR flight plans to destination and arrival aerodromes and to relevant ACCs. The ACCs are responsible for addressing the flight plans to all relevant aerodromes within its AOR, ...I think. :) M609, you are still an AIS office, right?

[funfly]

The project to develop filing of FPLs via the Internet is ongoing. The NATS department involved is expected to relocate to Swanwick (probably in 2007), and if the project is successfully completed, you can expect to see this Internet service made available, in addition to all current flight planning services, sometime after the move takes place.

I cannot see that Internet filing will replace all other means of filing your FPL - not everybody has Internet access, and sometimes a phone call or "the "Yes, um well, we um, fax it to Heathrow" method" actually works better.

Normal service will be provided by Heathrow FBU as usual, and for the currently foreseeable NATS future (which, admittedly, isn't that far ahead!:rolleyes: )

Of course you are totally right, those filthy foreigners know nothing and obviously anything they do will not be up to our British standards so we will develop our own system at tremendous cost and have it in place 10 years after anyone else.

And of course very few of us in the UK understand how to use the internet and that's assuming that we even have acces to it!

[chiglet]

In a previous post I remarked about a Flight Plan that Manc did not get.
The said FPL was a "Z" VFR/IFR Plan from Gamston to Reims. VFR to Clacton, then IFR. As "Parent" for Gamston, we would expect any and all Gamston in/outbounds to be tx'd to us so we can fax them to Gamston......it ain't so. It appears that the "Person Who Originates Said FPL" should include ALL relevant ATC addresses so that "Local" ATC are informed
This a/c was "N" reg, so he may be [technically] correct in filing on 'tinternet but what provisos' are in place to let the ATSUs involved thet he is flying from A to B?
E.G. Certain EEC countries are VFR below 10,000 ft.
I file [on the Internet] Gamston direct SAM/N0200F090 IFR N866 EGJJ. IFPS accepts this Plan. I am VFR to SAM, and being used [in my own country] to fly at FL90...I do so. Also, I am unaware of my "responsibility" to let All other participating ATSUs know about my actions.
Whilst not a [total] Luddite...I am not too happy with this system
watp,iktch

[niknak]

watp,iktch

A new catch phrase?
I know what it means, but will life be ever the same again without the previous bizzare yet intriguing quotation? :eek: :cool:

[routechecker]

I file [on the Internet] Gamston direct SAM/N0200F090 IFR N866 EGJJ. IFPS accepts this Plan. I am VFR to SAM, and being used [in my own country] to fly at FL90...I do so. Also, I am unaware of my "responsibility" to let All other participating ATSUs know about my actions.Whilst not a [total] Luddite...I am not too happy with this system
watp,iktch
Presumed knowledge of the law is the principle in jurisprudence that one is bound by a law even if one does not know of it. It has also been defined as the "prohibition of ignorance of the law".
Credit for this statement goes to Wikipidea.
It's published in all the National AIPs of the ECAC:
2.5. Distribution of Messages by the IFPS
The IFPS distributes all IFR/GAT flight plan and associated messages to the appropriate
addressees within the IFPS Distribution Area.
In addition, IFPS distributes all IFR/GAT flight plan and associated messages to all “extra addresses”, regardless of their location, which are provided by the message originator using the Re-addressing Function. (see § 2.3.3.)
Flight plans and associated messages which are part IFR or GAT will be addressed automatically by IFPS only to those ATS Units concerned with the IFR or GAT portion of the route. The message originator is always responsible for ensuring the addressing of all appropriate messages to those addressees concerned with VFR or OAT route portions. The re-addressing function can be used for this purpose.

[M609]

M609, you are still an AIS office, right?

Nope!

Kicked that lot over to AIS at Oslo Gardermoen in August. In Norway only one satelite office remain: Orland TWR. (They will hand over to Oslo sometime this year.)

Our local flight school use internet for alle their birefing/FPL needs. The Wing Operations center at the local Air Wing still use Fax/Phone. (They get to ommit field 19, and that does not work on the internet solution)
And yes, they file via the civ system as well.
It all works great in my opinion.

[GBALU53]

Why the internet??

Pilots have had to file certain flight plans before the internet became a tool for filing ,so if you do not have internet access you should know where and how to file a plan.

If you do not have the internet do you think you should know where and how to file one.

The phone has been around a long time, may be find the phone number of the parent Air Traffic Services Unit and file one with them???.

At the end of the day a flight plan if handled correctly is for the pilots own health and not for the air traffic unit so do things in the correct way please.:ok:

[funfly]

A new catch phrase?
I know what it means, but will life be ever the same again without the previous bizzare yet intriguing quotation? :eek: :cool:

Go on - please tell us

[chiglet]

we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[ATMspecialist]

Just to add to what LN-ATC said above re the Norwegian filing via the net.

When we made our system (ourselves) we contacted the Swedes and Belgians to see how they do it - and took pages from their book.

In Norway, a pilot files the entire FPL via the net, it is then presented on a queue at our central AIS office at Gardermoen.'

They will then validate the FPL, they can also use IFPUV for the IFR portions. Then they will add the AFTN addresses and submit it. Then the Norwegian rules that LN-ATC describes kick in for any VFR part of the FPL.

As for the filer, no FPL filed via the net is valid until she or he has been contacted by the AIS office stating that the FPL has been accepted.

One cannot expect a pilot to know all the intricasies of correct addressing of a FPL - I`ve seen enough examples where even AIS offices domestic and abroad and flight operations centres (CIV and MIL) have messed this up.

Cheers.

[GBALU53]

Down here we have seen pilots putting there own address in the FPL address boxes.

Pilots still do not know what area they need to fill in in some times.

Pilots will even put a load of junk in the remarks column.

Some ATC units will transmit information that is not part of the correct format for filing.

So it is not only pilots that need lessons but other people dealing with flight plans.

With IFR plans at least if there is some incorrect information the plan will get rejected so this should also apply to VFR plans so only the correct information will be accepted.

Pilots and ATS units should have the knowledge or access to correct flight planning information.

Pilots and Air Traffic staff will not ask so in the end the are the ones who lood stupid for getting it wrong.

[White Hart]

..Some ATC units will transmit information that is not part of the correct format for filing.
So it is not only pilots that need lessons but other people dealing with flight plans.
.


so exactly which ATC Unit(s) are you referring to? They obviously don't know they're doing things wrong (according to you, that is), so they won't pick up on your comments relating to them if you don't say who you think is making the mistakes.

[GBALU53]

I assume you must work in ATC if you do not see hard copies of FPLs i could understand.

You just have to see FPLs come through the system to work out where the fpls were filed this only really applies to vfr plans as you must know that IFR one need to be perfect for the European Computer System but as some of us know even they can get the odd thing incorrect.

Hope this helps but VFR pilot are possble not thought enough on FPL issues??

There are books available and even the Air Pilot has some guide lines so if you do not know ask should be the mottow:ok: :ok:

[GBALU53]

I assume you must work in ATC if you do not see hard copies of FPLs i could understand.

You just have to see FPLs come through the system to work out where the fpls were filed this only really applies to vfr plans as you must know that IFR one need to be perfect for the European Computer System but as some of us know even they can get the odd thing incorrect.

Hope this helps but VFR pilot are possble not thought enough on FPL issues??

There are books available and even the Air Pilot has some guide lines so if you do not know ask should be the mottow:ok: :ok:

[DFC]

I have been filing oon the internet for some time for flights to from and within the UK. Never had a problem. Get an SMS message to the mobile of the ACK and when IFR the CTOT if applicable. This is also emailed to ops. Great system also produces the weather and NOTAM briefing based on the FPL route.

Obvously the provider is European but not UK based!

Chiglet, It makes no difference where a flight plan isfiled for a departure from Gamston. If I file a plan as you describe in say Athens with Gamston as the departure then if the flight is VFR, the only address placed on the plan by Athens is the Gamston AFTN address or if it does not have one the responsible ACC unit which is MACC. It is up to that unit to address the outbound plan correctly. If however it is an IFR plan then the IFPS does all the work.

Funny thing is that this non-UK provider with the excellent integrated service uses the same system that NATS currently uses so why can't NATS get the same out of it?

Regards,

DFC

[chiglet]

DFC,
That was my point. We did NOT get the VFR leg from Gamston to his entry poin into CAS
watp,iktch

[White Hart]

I assume you must work in ATC if you do not see hard copies of FPLs i could understand.
You just have to see FPLs come through the system to work out where the fpls were filed this only really applies to vfr plans ...

yes I do work in ATC - Heathrow Flight Briefing and VCR. I have seen too many PPL-filed VFR FPLs that have all sorts of mistakes on them - but it is rare to receive an incorrectly completed FPL (I or V) prepared by ATC staff at another ATC Unit .

Quote "Some ATC units will transmit information that is not part of the correct format for filing. So it is not only pilots that need lessons but other people dealing with flight plans..."


So, like I said, (and this is not said just to start an argument, but a first move/suggestion to rectify your problem) if you say that you are receiving incorrectly completed FPLs from an ATC Unit, then let them know who they are - Heathrow included, if we are the culprits. Nobody's going to clean up their act if they are not made aware of the problem that you are identifying.

Bear in mind that the identified Unit(s) will probably ask for examples from you - we certainly would!

[Kyprianos Biris]

Any news on the alleged introduction of the facility to file ATC flight Plans on the internet (like OLIVIA in France)

I've been filing via Austria based www.homebriefing.com for over a year now.

Most of my flights are within Greece (LGGG FIR) but some also in the neighbouring countries.

70% of my flights are IFR.

In all IFR & VFR FPLs never had an issue except the ocasional surprise by the local CAA staff receiving the FPL for the 1st time not by a local ATS unit. They always tell me "your FPL is already here via Eurocontrol !" when actually it is Vienna ACC (or whatever its called) that sends them.

In all of the FPLs I get an SMS in my mobile regarding FPL acceptance (Eurocontrol CFMU validity) and also any CTOTs that may be issued on the departure.

Excellent service :ok:

[gigi116]

you have to register to homebriefing.com of Austrocontrol. It is free for 1 or 2months then you must pay a very reasonable fee.

You can receive ACK and CTOT messages via SMS on your:) :) cell !!!!