Flybe MAPS

[QQ44QQ]

Now up and running - for scheme details and the on line application form go to the link on the Flybe website or direct to the Flight Training Europe website.

[QQ44QQ]

Forgot to post the links: www.flybe.com/vacancies/default.htm or www.flighttrainingeurope.com

[Wannabe24]

FTE's current cost for their integrated course is £63,216 (today's Euro to Pound rate). The question here is are the "Mentored" pilots going to be on the same FlyBE salary scale as Direct Entry pilots or Sponsored pilots? I hope it's not the Sponsored rate cos that would be a bloody joke.

According to PPJN.com, year 1 on turboprops gets you £26,716 if you are on the Direct Entry pay scale. £22,756 if you are on the Sponsored Pilot pay scale:

Year Pay
5 28816
4 28291
3 27766
2 27241
1 26716


For those that go into this with very small funds you are looking at a £60,000 loan minimum with interest this is going to cost you £84,000 over 12 years or £583.33 every month for 12 years. If you want to pay it back in 6 years (which I think most sensible human beings would want) you will have to fork out £1,000 per month. All this out of your own salary. How can anyone manage £1,000 for a loan, £700 for a mortgage, £200 on outgoings for 5 years on an average salary of £27,000 !!!

This kind of approach cannot work with a FlyBE turboprop salary. It's madness paying out that sum of money to guarantee a job which will pay you a mediocre salary for 5 years.

Why not spend £35,000 going the modular route, if it takes you 2 years to find a flying job so what. If you're on a crappy salary like the FlyBE one for 5 years then at least your not an extra £40,000 in debt. Chances are you will find a much better starting salary than that anyway.

I know we all love flying but for God sake don't let them take the piss!!!

[CaptAirProx]

Guys, you may have a point, but life isn't really all that bad. At least you have a salary that allows you a mortgage! Try being an instructor for same amount of years with equally the same if not worse disposable income renting a small flatlet thingy and nothing to show for it! No guarantee, no prospects! Hmmm, I know what I would have preferred at the time. It is a harsh thing to consider, but from my experience, there ain't such a thing as a free lunch and we have all paid for it in our own intimate way!

Good luck.

[Wannabe24]

My initial reply now seems a little on the harsh side, but for someone who is already earning over that, to consider earning below my current salary for 5 years in a row seems silly. I guess it's fair to say such schemes take advantage of people who have not seen/therefore do not know any better.

[Panther1984]

Has anyone recieved a reply from the second stage. Also, does anyone know how many cadets they are going to take and how the remaining part of the assesment will be conducted.

[QQ44QQ]

Flybe looking for 2 courses of 6 pilots each to start at FTE during 2006. The 'on line' application form closes on the 16th January!

[Panther1984]

I've just got the email saying Im through to the third stage. Has anyone else been invited yet because it would be interesting to know how many have been brought forward for selection.

[Rhodes13]

Back to the Top
Has anyone who went to the third stage heard anything yet?
The wait is killing me.
PM if you like
Regards
Rhodes13

[Panther1984]

Just got the email saying I've made the final few and have been offered a place. Anyone else out there heard yet. PM me.

[ltn and beyond]

At Flybe 5 yrs would make you fairly senior!!, and almost certainly you would not be on the T/P F/O pay scale.

Probably om the T/P Capt scale by then !!!!;)

[Hudson Bay]

I can tell you Flybe are now really struggling to find F/O's and Captains. They have lost some very experienced Skippers in the last few months and there is about another 6 F/O's about to hand in their notice. Another 8 new Aircraft to arrive this year. Get your CV's in. If you are a monkey with a licence you will get a job. Don't rely on the website it is just a smoke screen. Get on the phone, get a job, get 500 hours and move on to an airline and earn $60,000 plus. Easy!

[ltn and beyond]

Hudson, why would you want to promote guys to join and then leave quickly?:confused:
Surly for those that want the short haul low cost life the promotion prospects of a growing company are great, and what makes the grass greener on the other sides, if you keep pushing guys to leave giving no stabiltity in the company !!!

[EGCC4284]

What's the chances they may open a base at Manchester, If I got a job with them and was based there, I would be very pleased.

[sicky]

Does anybody have any more information on what exactly this is? "Mentored Airline Pilot Scheme" - Is this likely to be some sort of ab-initio course?

[Jinkster]

I wonder what there reason behind this scheme is, when there are plenty of low houred pilots of there.

The mind really does boggle!

:hmm:

[scruggs]

I wondered the same jinkster. Seems to me with this kind of course, its win-win for airline and the flight training school. OK, if the student gets a job at the end - great :ok: But what if he/she doesnt :sad:

With this set up, FTE get their money, and flybe has access to a pool of fATPL graduates (should they need them).

I'm not sure, but I don't think flybe guarantee a job at the end. Or do they?

[sicky]

Iwould certainly expect them to give me a job at the end, if they had pre-selected me to attend the training course. However, this industry can work in mysterious ways!

Does anybody have any experience of a previous MAPS scheme, such as interviews etc?

[Flies-like-a-chicken]

I'm concerned by the time scale... it said commencing in June on the initial application then July on the written answers stage...will it be December by the weekend?!

Ive got a CTC stage 3 re-try in September... not sure what i'd do if (and that's a BIG IF) I got on.... it seems less likely that you'll get a job with MAPS.

FLAC

[newbie008]

If you read the info on the FTE website it does tell you. I think you'll find it isn't a sponsorship either..I spoke to flybe to confirm this before sending back my answers to FTE. The student has to pay for the ab-initio training and there will be selected pilots to monitor the students from flybe. If everything is passed, then flybe will fund a JOC and type rating and offer of employment if there are positions. I thought it was a sponsorship but I guess its given away in the title!

[sicky]

They also fund an upset training course aswell as the JOC and TR.

It's not exactly a sponsorship, but it's not too different to what the other "sponsorships" actually are either.

I have a CTC stage 2 resit in Setpember, but i'm not holidng out for anything, i'm trying to keep all my options open and having a go at every possible option aswell. It seems like the most sensible thing to do!

[no sponsor]

Definitely select CTC over and above the Flybe scheme. You do get a job at CTC if you make it through to the end, and it will be on 737, 757 or A320s.

Most who joined Flybe through the sponsored schemes will leave to go to other airlines. I can never quite figure out why these airlines do these schemes when they have a low retention rate. For BA yes, as most stay until retirement, but not the case here.

There already is a huge pool of wannabes to select from.

[Superpilot]

The reason why FlyBE cannot retain their pilots boils down to one thing. No muppet is going to hang around earning less than 30k for 5 or more years, especially with a huge loan to pay off. And as you get older, you will be settling down, marriage, a house+mortgage. How can anyone cope?

As has been mentioned many times before, the FlyBE MAPS scheme should be the most economically unviable option out there for those who will need to take out a loan. All your loan repayments will be made from your (after tax) salary. Just look on www.ppjn.com for the current salary scale, I've been earning more than a 5 year FlyBE Turboprop FO salary for two years as a mere IT bod, and I'm still only 24. Career or no career, although I've been wanting it all my life I'm prepared to wait another 6 years if I have to but will never succumb to schemes such as the above. If they considered Modular students, I'd think differently.

[fat_albert]

Anybody know if the loan with BBVA will be unsecured on the MAPS scheme? I'd love to say I have a large pile of cash down the back of the sofa, but I haven't.:{

Looks like it'll be a trip to the bank begging!

[Superpilot]

I meant MAPS scheme considering "structured Modular" students.

[sicky]

On the bright side though, it would giveyou a job, and "hour building", so tospeak.

[LD Max]

I post this for general discussion.

This is the "candidate profile" for acceptance into the Flybe MAP scheme as posted on the Flight Training Europe Website:

Candidate Profile: We are looking for high calibre, motivated individuals who are keen to work for the UK’s largest independent regional airline.

To be eligible for this scheme you must be between 18 and 35 years of age on application, have a minimum of 2 A-Level passes, Grade C or above (or equivalent), and have 5 GSCE passes including Maths, English and a Science subject at Grade C or above, as well as the right to live and work in the UK.


I would postulate that the age restriction of 18 - 35 years of age will soon be illegal, although the Flybe MAP scheme is not the only one to blatently discriminate unfairly on the issue of age. The Easyjet / CTC "Wings" scheme is similarly restrictive to older pilots.

The Employment Equality (Age) Regulations 2006 will come into force on 1 October this year.

Section 7(1)(b) provides that it will be unlawful for an employer to discriminate against an employee "in the terms on which he offers that person employment". This will include the length of any contract or the availabilty of training and selection programs upon which any offer is conditional. Unjustifiably treating someone less favourably than another person on the grounds of their age will amount to discrimination.

The majority of cases brought under the regulations are likely to focus on the meaning of 'justification'. The regulations actually state that the act or policy in question must be a "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim", but no further guidance is given. It will therefore be up to individual tribunals and appellate courts to determine what is and isn't justified.

Any Comments?

LD Max

[moggiee]

Any Comments?
LD Max
Yes - remove the age restriction from the adverts, and throw away any applications from people over the age of 35!

They don't have to tell you why they rejected you, after all!

[A38lephant]

Section 7(1)(b) provides that it will be unlawful for an employer to discriminate against an employee "in the terms on which he offers that person employment". This will include the length of any contract or the availabilty of training and selection programs upon which any offer is conditional. Unjustifiably treating someone less favourably than another person on the grounds of their age will amount to discrimination.


I guess the key here is whether MAPS scheme amounts to an offer of employment..I haven't looked at it in any detail however if it is like most mentored/scholarship schemes it will not per se amount to an offer of employment. Lawyers can be very literal if they want to.

As I said not looked at it in much detail so not 100% sure

[LD Max]

Moggiee... So what if you're Ethnic, Female or both?
Discrimination is discrimination, on whatever grounds. Employers will have to comply with anti-discrimination laws in all respects and woe betide those which don't.
I would be interested to hear what the Unions are doing...
LD Max

[LD Max]

I guess the key here is whether MAPS scheme amounts to an offer of employment

Nope... indirect discrimination covers training for employment too - especially when an offer of a contract is dependant upon participation in a specific training scheme.

General guidelines can be seen here:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/Employment/Employees/DiscriminationAtWork/DiscriminationAtWorkArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10026429&chk=q3aE%2B4

Stop unjustified age discrimination in employment and work-related training

Employers will have to make sure that any redundancy policies don’t directly discriminate against older workers. They should also not discriminate indirectly – for example, by selecting only part-time workers for redundancy, when a large number of these may be older workers. The only exceptions will be where an age requirement can be objectively justified.

LD Max

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

My understanding is that such age requirements will have to be dropped. UNLESS they can go to great length to prove that they are justified. Which essentially they can't.

Cheers

WWW

[potkettleblack]

As with all legislation there are ways and means around it and I can't see the airlines or CTC or for that matter any employer losing any sleep over it. As mentioned above they can of course remove the ageist bits in their adverts and simply bin the cv's that don't fit the profile they are after. Of course some on the ball HR person might point out that if they don't interview anyone over 35 then they might be open to criticism/legal action so of course they can select 1 lucky punter and go through the hoops and then bin them at a later date. There is of course no need to give a reason for the binning and in fact with the way that EU legislation is heading it is in the interests of employers to say very little for fear of recrimination. So in summary nothing will change, well not unless the airlines change their view that anyone over 35 is suddenly less of a training risk which is primarily why the "old" age limit was there in the first place.

[LD Max]

not unless the airlines change their view that anyone over 35 is suddenly less of a training risk which is primarily why the "old" age limit was there in the first place.

A training risk to whom? Nowadays, the candidate is having to pay for just about everything from SIM assessment through to Type Rating. The airline just picks up the line training, and that costs them bu**er all because they are getting a body to sit in the co-pilot seat for substantially less than it would cost them for a fully qualified person.

As mentioned earlier, the legislation states (vaguely) that in justifying an age limit, the act or policy in question must be a "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim". It would be disproportionate to disqualify a candidate from a training course on the presumption that he / she was less likely to pass it on the grounds of his / her age, when in fact the contrary is more likely to be true. Substitute "gender" or "race" for the word "age" and it makes more sense.

Of course some on the ball HR person might point out that if they don't interview anyone over 35 then they might be open to criticism/legal action so of course they can select 1 lucky punter and go through the hoops and then bin them at a later date.

I just don't see that this has any mileage. The true test is "proportionate representation", as applied to all other areas of anti-discrimination law. If a disproportionate number of recruits are under 35, two or three years down the road it will be obvious what is happening. In the meantime, I would predict a couple of lawsuits will already be in the pipeline.

LD Max

[Keygrip]

So, LD, what about "body mass index" (or whatever it's correctly called).

Imagine someone with two ATPL's (different countries), thousands of hours of commercial experience, two class one medicals - but being told height/weight ratio not suitable.

Is that discrimination, too? Should they get a lawyer and start legal action?

[A38lephant]

Nope... indirect discrimination covers training for employment too - especially when an offer of a contract is dependant upon participation in a specific training scheme.

LD MAX, Were you referring to

"Stop unjustified age discrimination in employment and work-related training :
Employers will have to make sure that any redundancy policies don’t directly discriminate against older workers. They should also not discriminate indirectly – for example, by selecting only part-time workers for redundancy, when a large number of these may be older workers. The only exceptions will be where an age requirement can be objectively justified."

The point I was trying to get across (sorry i was in a rush earlier and not very clear) was that you are neither offered employment until you complete the scheme and, even if you complete the scheme you still may not be offered employment.
You are offered a place on a specific training scheme, (not employment)which increases your chances of an offer of a job.
Hence you will not be "employed" nor an "employee" until there is a job offer made and accepted. This would make this wording difficult to enforce for schemes such as Flybe/CTC.
My interpretation would be that "work related training" refers to those already employed - i.e not selecting a person because they are older for further type rating training. Being neither a lawyer nor a pilot I'm only giving my interpretation. Its an interesting debate though!
:ok:

[LD Max]

KG... So, LD, what about "body mass index" (or whatever it's correctly called).

I'd support the view that it is potentially discriminatory - certainly. The question is really whether or not there is legislation which covers it, and this thread is to discuss the effects of the new legislation being introduced in the UK.

If the person in question is fit enough to qualify for a Class One medical, the limiting factor must be whether or not he / she can perform the duties required. This question must take into account physical ability and dimensions e.g. too tall or too short as well as too wide!

But for all practical purposes an otherwise fit individual who has an unfortunately high BMI should not be declined an airline job on this basis alone.

To specifically address the issue you've raised though - I'm not sure what legislation you would need to refer to. My first thought is perhaps the Disability Discrimination Act. I did a little research and came up with the following:

The Government published statutory guidance in 1996, primarily to assist adjudicating bodies like courts and tribunals in deciding whether a person is a disabled person for the purposes of the Disability Discrimination Act. This guidance can be viewed here:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/ExternalLink?EXTERNAL_LINK=http%3A//www.drc-gb.org/thelaw/practice.asp

For the purposes of the Act:

"Substantial" means neither minor nor trivial;
"Long term" means that the effect of the impairment has lasted or is likely to last for at least 12 months (there are special rules covering recurring or fluctuating conditions);
"Normal day-to-day activities" include everyday things like eating, washing, walking and going shopping;
A normal day-to-day activity must affect one of the 'capacities' listed in the Act which include mobility, manual dexterity, speech, hearing, seeing and memory.

At first sight, I doubt that being overweight would fall within the scope of the act unless it affected day to day activities - and then I doubt the candidate would qualify for a Class One Medical if this were the case.

So the honest answer is, "I don't know", but I would certainly agree with your example in principle.

[jb5000]

So which CTC partner airline would you sue for discrimination?

I can't imagine you could ever sue CTC because they are just putting limits on the people who can apply to them. We are not talking about a university or school but a company that can quite rightly choose who it wants to have as customer.

It just seems that people are looking for somewhere to vent their anger and frustration with the industry as a whole.

[potkettleblack]

So which CTC partner airline would you sue for discrimination?

No one will sue. Aviation is littered with hot heads threatening this and that and nothing ever comes of it. Read these forums for long enough and you will see many a tale of woe for the poor old pilot.

At the end of the day what wannabee wants to spend their hard earned on a long drawn out law suit with no certainty of success and the risk of "dirtying" your name in what is a very small tight knit industry. If a quango and regulator are appointed then I am sure they will be more interested in pursuing cases other than a >35 year old pilot rejected for a job. Were just not in the right "pc" category these days. Now a 62 year old from one of the accession states who has no relevant qualifications, poor at best grasp of english - now there is a case they would pursue for sure!!!!:)

[LD Max]

So which CTC partner airline would you sue for discrimination?

I started this thread on the premise that the Flybe MAP scheme may soon be illegal. It is merely representative of other schemes which, as you rightly point out, are operated by CTC on behalf of other partner airlines. There are many others also.

I would have thought that the basis of any case must be specifically to do with an individual's eligibility to enrol in a particular scheme on the basis of an advertised employment opportunity. Are the entry conditions discriminatory?

For example: "Clean Shaven Pilots only need apply", would most likely breach the race and religious discrimination act.

On this basis the scheme operators would be liable... and IMHO this would place joint liability on both the training providers and the employers, (and possibly even the publishers of the advertisement). The case would simply be about whether the ??? discrimination act has been breached.

No one will sue. Aviation is littered with hot heads threatening this and that and nothing ever comes of it.

PKB, I am not trying to stir up any hotheads here. But employment legislation is a very active sector for the legal profession and I do not see why Aviation should be exempt. What should be remembered is that "equality" is all about finding the best person for the job. It is in employer's interests to treat all people equally regardless of race, colour, creed, sexual persuasion and, (imminently), age.

The industry's resistance to employing older pilots is archaic, unfounded, entrenched and unfair. It needs to be challenged, but until such time as the new age discrimination legislation becomes Law, there has been no instrument with which to do it.

ACAS has some very useful guidance on equality policies which many airlines could do well to adopt. But in fact, many employment related legal cases which are brought by individuals, are supported or even funded by their unions.

I'm not a Lawyer either and as I said earlier, I would be interested to hear what the Union Reps have to say about this. (and lawyers too!!)

Regards,

LD Max

[LD Max]

[B]You are offered a place on a specific training scheme, (not employment)which increases your chances of an offer of a job.
Hence you will not be "employed" nor an "employee" until there is a job offer made and accepted. This would make this wording difficult to enforce for schemes such as Flybe/CTC.
My interpretation would be that "work related training" refers to those already employed - i.e not selecting a person because they are older for further type rating training. Being neither a lawyer nor a pilot I'm only giving my interpretation. Its an interesting debate though!


A common misconception is that anti-discrimination legislation applies from the moment of employment onwards. It does not. It applies equally to the entire employment process, including recruitment, training, promotion, retention, retirement and dismissal. It is about giving equally qualified and skilled people, equal opportunities in work for equal pay and conditions - and affording all people the right to obtain work and develop their career on their own merits in fair competition with their peers.

In short... finding the best person for the job.

I'm glad you find it an interesting debate. I thought so too, because we know that this "ideal" doesn't happen in so many areas already - not just in relation to age. This is why strong Unions are so important. We need to debate these issues and raise the profile of equality in this industry.


Regards,

LD Max

[Re-Heat]

If the person in question is fit enough to qualify for a Class One medical, the limiting factor must be whether or not he / she can perform the duties required. This question must take into account physical ability and dimensions e.g. too tall or too short as well as too wide!
Although it should be illegal, I believe that would not be illegal per se - being not a category of discrimination (ethnic, age, sex etc)? A lawyer would know.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Well its a bit of a moot point really, Flybe are not suddenly going to start spending their money on sponsoring old gits that they don't really want in the first place, just because of some EU anti-ageist legislation!

If Flybe are only looking to sponsor hot sh!t young maverick impersonators aged 20 or under, and the EU tells them they can't sponsor that kid and they have to sponsor some 48 year old stockbroker career-change daydreamer instead, because of some bollocky EU legislation - then of course they will just bin the scheme altogether. They aren't going to go out of their way to do something they are not obliged to do - spend money on training student pilots - unless they can get the ideal candidates. As so many on this forum love to point out, there are plenty of already-qualified young FATPLs floating about so why do airlines feel the need to sponsor in the first place?

Either way, the chances of 'older' people obtaining sponsorship are not going to rise above zero.

[dxbpilot]

Does anyone acually think this Employment Equality (Age) Regulation will make any difference ?

They will just reject the candidate and give another reason.

[A320rider]

my attorney can not wait to sue these :mad: .
he needs money and he will be very happy to have a talk with you.
the deal is 50%.

BA, BMI, easy jet, ...watch out! it is now time to pay for your CRIME.

How to trick them?
send 2 CV, on one you are 29 years old, and one with 40...(use some pseudo emails address)
you can do the same thing with religion, race,... and see how they will answer .

happy sueing!!!:ok:

[rmcdonal]

As far as the BMI thing goes, if you don't fit the required specifications for the job then you may well not be able to do it for physical reasons. Air forces around the world impose these limitations on perfectly healthy people because they just don’t fit in the plane. Can you imagine the hassle required by a company to replace the pilots’ seat every time you fly? Let’s say you’re too tall, even if they lower the seat to its bottom stop your head may still touch the roof!
And if your a bit to wide (and may still pass medical) then your girth could affect the control movement, and infringe on the co-pilot side (Basic trainers c152, c172 are a tight fit even for regular size people). [Slightly off topic, there is a story of a large lady suing Robinson Helicopters because she is to big to fit in the R22, and exceeds the seat limit]

As for age, yes it does take longer to teach older people to do new things (old dog, new tricks) and you may argue 'but they are the ones paying for it themselves' however what about promotion? System upgrades? New aircraft? All these require more training paid for by the company, why should they employ an older pilot who well cost them more when a younger pilot with the same experience can be trained at a cheaper cost?
As for base training being cheep, not only do they have to employ you to sit in the right hand seat, but they employ someone else to sit behind you to take-over if/when you stuff up. That’s one extra wage.
Sure something’s seem unfair, but there are reasons for them.

Just to stir the pot here is a quick question for you: A company refuses to employ a man/woman (not a sex issue) because they refuse to remove their head gear while flying, is that the companies fault and a racial issue? Or the pilots fault for not respecting the dress code?

Safe Travel :ok:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Yes but the point is that if someone did make a legal case against them they would have to defend their assertion that it takes longer or is harder to train a 42yr old than a 18 - 29yr old as advertised for. They couldn't just claim it without evidence that was strongly related to the job advertised for.

I cannot see where or how that evidence could be found.

Any defence relating to length of service post training would be severely undermined by examination of the turnover rates of pilots and the average length of service thus existing.

You can't just say well we'll just bin any over 30 CVs anyway or bin them at a later stage without giving a reason. Because if just one of those over 30 CVs happens to be black, gay, catholic etc and makes a claim then you are going to be standing up with nothing to say at a tribunal for discrimation upon which there is no limit for damages or compensation awards.

So your HR Manager won't let you just bin any CVs.

Cheers

WWW

[LD Max]

Well put WWW.

I was just going to add in my response to rmcdonal that his "old dog new tricks" argument is just too anecdotal. Young dogs have trouble learning new tricks too and there are plenty of experienced older pilots out there who are being promoted, doing training, learning new systems and aircraft.

I just don't see any evidence at all that an older pilot represents more of a training risk than a younger pilot at the recruitment stage.

As far as I can see, the only area where an airline could reasonably argue that age makes any difference is in relation to length of service. But with retirement ages already moving upwards thanks to new guidance from ICAO, this would be a very hard argument to justify. In any case, equally anecdotal evidence suggests younger pilots are much more likely to leave a Company after unfreezing their ATPLs.

The real problem seems to be that this is the way the industry has always done it and there is always resistance to change. It is up to us to stand up for our rights - otherwise nothing will change.

Luke Sky Toddler... The issue is not only about sponsorship per se. It is about recruitment policy. If you "require" an applicant to be either:

1) Type rated with 500 hours on type and 1500 TT OR
2) Undertake training with XYZ

...then option 2 should be open to everyone - not just those under 35.

I would also add that the tone of your post is quite unnecessary. We are not talking about "hot sh!t young maverick impersonators" nor "48 year old stockbroker career-change daydreamers", and I personally would prefer not be referred to as an "old git". This is discriminatory language and if you made similar comments regarding colour or gender it would be clearly unacceptable.

Ageism is as much an issue as racism or sexism, and don't forget that unlike these you will be amongst us one day. Hopefully your career prospects will be better than ours by the time you get there.

Your perception seems to be that "older" is somehow "worse", when in fact it should make no difference. An older person is not asking to be treated favourably against a younger person. He / She just wants the same chance to apply for a job on his or her own merits.

LD Max

[rmcdonal]

Yes LD Max you are correct. Younger pilots do also have problems with learning. Every age has some learning difficulty. However I have instructed both younger and older pilots at a Basic Training level and have discovered that the older generations are harder to teach and take longer to pick up on important skills.
I am in no way saying a 300hr 20YO should be given a job over a 8000hr 40YO. But if I had the choice between 2 pilots with the same times the younger would most likely win. Exception to case would be if the pilot was too young (Less then 23ish, you need the added maturity).
Never said it was fair, just giving a separate view.


Edit due sepling

[LD Max]

rmcdonal: I appreciate what you say and as a Flight Instructor myself I can relate to the example you gave.

However at PPL level, many of the older students are either: Not persuing an airline job and are doing it for the "challenge", or have other factors to balance like existing careers and families, which intrude on the amount of commitment they can give at this level.

By the time an older pilot has attained his / her CPL/IR their priorities are the same as everyone else's. Get a job!

This puts a completely different emphasis on their motivational differences and constraints - which as you will know from teaching theory are the major influences on learning performance.

Of the more mature students I have taught or flown with who are aiming for an airline career, I would honestly say that on average they are equally motivated and just as capable as their younger counterparts and there is little to choose between them.

The point which I try to keep repeating is that older pilots need the same opportunities to apply for jobs and job related training as younger pilots. When it comes to interview and selection, then each person must be selected on their own merits and performance - not on some perceived generalisation such as purely their age.

LD Max

[moggiee]

Moggiee... So what if you're Ethnic, Female or both?
Discrimination is discrimination, on whatever grounds. Employers will have to comply with anti-discrimination laws in all respects and woe betide those which don't.
I would be interested to hear what the Unions are doing...
LD Max
Short answer: "prove it!".

There are many ways to say "sorry, you're not for us" without mentioning age etc.

I am not advocating ageism as such but to be honest, it HAS to be a factor in SOME jobs. You couldn't recruit a 58 year old into the Infantry and it may well be a poor return upon your money to recruit a 55 year old pilot.

[moggiee]

Yes but the point is that if someone did make a legal case against them they would have to defend their assertion that it takes longer or is harder to train a 42yr old than a 18 - 29yr old as advertised for. They couldn't just claim it without evidence that was strongly related to the job advertised for.
There is plenty of evidence to that effect and I am sure that if I could be bothered to move my 40 year old fingers across the keyboard, I could learn to serach it all out on the interthingynetweb whatsit!

Seriously, there IS evidence that oldies are harder to train. Of course, experience may offset some of the learning issues - but there is no guarantee. Remember also that older people are more likely to suffer heart disease, strokes, cancer, eyesight and hearing degradation etc.

I am far less likely to see and hear an approaching lorry than I was 20 years ago and it will only be a question of whether or not the heart attack or the impact puts me into Intensive Care. This last bit is not entirely tongue in cheek.

[Speed bird 002]

Just wondering if anyone got any replys since sending off those questions.....No news is good news, but just curious......many thanx

[Flies-like-a-chicken]

I've not heard anything yet either. Makes you wonder how much time there would be between being accepted and departing for spain...

[Luke SkyToddler]

LD Max

I do apologize for the tone of my post, written while under the influence of half a dozen Fosters last night, I am excessively prone to hyperbole and wild exaggeration with most of the things I say and do but generally I'm on the side of the good guys honest :ok:

However I have to say it doesn't matter what your opinion or indeed my opinion is of the trainability and/or desirability of the older wannabe - my point was that these schemes are wildly desirable and snowed under with applications from all walks of life, to the point where they have to put you all through batteries of brutally hard and basically unpassable tests just to weed out 99% of you to get the numbers down to manageable levels, before they even start looking seriously at individuals. Ergo, you can't force any airline to sponsor anyone they don't want to sponsor, on the grounds of ageism or sexism or anything else.

At the end of the day how are you, and the 999 out of 1000 other unsuccessful applicants, going to prove that the one guy who was successful got there because of 'age discrimination' against all the rest of you? For a start all they have to do is just turn round and say well he scored higher in the psychological profile than you - and no we can't show you his psychological profile because that's infringing on HIS rights under the human rights act. * Oh and by the way 'the other guy' is used in this context for simplicity of grammar alone and in no way signifies a sexist bias in my ppruning :hmm: *

In fact I can't prove it but it's just a hunch based on many years of instructing, but I would bet that the young ones DO score higher on average in these tests than the older ones.

Anyway it's all just people running their mouths off on the internet, none of it matters to the people that do the hiring and firing. I would place money on the fact that we will see the end of sponsorship schemes in general before we see them open up to over-35-year-olds, EU legislation or no.

<<edit: Nice post, Luke. Wish there were more like this on PPruNe.>>

[sicky]

nope nothing here since then either :sad:

[LD Max]

Luke Sky Toddler: Thanks for the apology. I can relate to a few fosters too!
:}

I have to admit I generally agree with your analysis that the airlines will do anything to weed out 99% of the applications to get them down to manageable proportions. And I also agree that us "running our mouths off" here is unlikely to affect Company Policy.

However, the benefit of such a discussion is it makes people (us) consider the arguments, and we do know that these threads are also read by the media and policy-makers alike.

But I still hold dear my belief that any company which applies a discriminatory policy deserves to suffer the full weight of public criticism... and if they ignore or disregard their obligations, then they should suffer the full weight of the Law too.

I am 42 years of age, and I don't regard myself anywhere near being "on the shelf" or slow to train. Being equally skilled and licenced with over 600 hours under my belt, I think I deserve as good a crack at a SIM check as the next guy (or gal).

It's really that simple.

LD Max

[carbonfibre]

Proving is no longer the issue of the applicant this is the repsonsibility of the employer designate if so challenged, you as an employer prove that someone was unsuitbale if they meet your criteria.

Then if you take someone on who did not you must provide written evidence that you made sound judgement,i.e your company criteria. You will find most companies these days have at least 2 people as to confirm the agreement mainly for this reason.

:ok:

[newbie008]

spoke to jerez few days ago and they said about another week and half

[jamesiek]

Obviously there isn't a big enough pool of capable/suitable wannabe's for Flybe. They would never waste company resources by getting involved in this scheme if they did'nt need to!

[sicky]

I think the whole point of the scheme is to try and get "first dibs" on the "best" trainees, if you see what i mean?

[LD Max]

Quite right Carbonfibre.

I read a very interesting article about the new Age Discrimination Act in the April / May edition of BALPA's periodical "The Log" by Dr. John McGurk.

I welcome the existance of BALPA's Retirement and Discrimination Task Group which he referred to in his article. The article deals with a number of important issues including Pay and Promotion, Pilot Health and Licencing, Productivity, issues regarding length of service, Loss of Licence and Part-Time Working.

Unfortunately I did not see any mention of Recruitment and this is fundamental to any anti-discrimination policy - to ensure that all people of equal qualifications have equal rights to apply for jobs.

I do hope BALPA will be looking at this whole issue as well.

[sicky]

anybody heard anything?

[Speed bird 002]

I havnt heard anything. Its shocking when one reads that the training will start in July. I would have thought the selection would have almost finished by now. Oh well, Like they say "No news is good news"....Lets just be patient and wait until the ball arrives in our court.

Hayder

[Flies-like-a-chicken]

Tim Henman returns a ball faster than the MAPS team!

[sicky]

Normally i don't mind people taking their time too much, usually means they're being thorough which is always good. However, if we get through and end up moving to Spain for a year or so there's a lot to sort out and the start date is about 8weeks away!

[sicky]

spoke to jerez few days ago and they said about another week and half

Looks like mid-week next week then? :O

[sicky]

Anyone?

I don't know whether it's best to chase this up or just wait? Does anybody know who to contact?

[JimBigglesworth]

Hey Sicky,

I'm with you on this, It does seem a bit slow! I was out in Jerez 2 weeks ago for thier standard testing (I'd booked it before applying to the MAPS scheme) and asked about it and they said it would be early this week sometime?:confused:

I sort of remember reading that they weren't going to reply unless you were accepted though which is a little worrying, is there anybody that has been accepted onto stage 3??

[sicky]

Hey Sicky,

I'm with you on this, It does seem a bit slow! I was out in Jerez 2 weeks ago for thier standard testing (I'd booked it before applying to the MAPS scheme) and asked about it and they said it would be early this week sometime?:confused:

I sort of remember reading that they weren't going to reply unless you were accepted though which is a little worrying, is there anybody that has been accepted onto stage 3??

oh dear, that IS worrying! Surely a quick email saying sorry, you have not been successful would make things a lot easier? I'm not holding out on this but it is at the back of my mind!

How did the Jerez tests go? Hopefully i'll be ready to do those very soon!

[Flies-like-a-chicken]

Will we ever find out?! Is this the aviation industry's purgatory?!

[sicky]

It may take a phone call to flybe!

At 16:36 (edit: on a Friday!) i wouldn't expect an answer, though, so maybe next week?

[Superpilot]

This shows how much they care :D

[EK4457]

Seems to be a problem with these schemes....

I applied for the last Thomson.fly approved scheme at Jerez about a year ago.

I thought the FTE organised assessments were very well handled and the results were prompt. The problem started when they handed over their info and recommendations for airline interview.

Managed to get though to the last 15 interviews at Luton but these were less than 3 weeks before we were due to start!!

I was only given 2 days notice to attend the interview at a time set by them (hardly any flexability).

I had already decided not to accept a place even if it was offered. Just completely un realistic for many reasons:

- Need 4 wks notice for my job
- Same for house
- Would need to sell my car
- Finance. A whopping £60k loan reasearched, signed and sealed within a matter of days (blind, rushed and foolish treatment of money is NOT a measure of how much you want the job- so no 'if you really want it then you wouldnt think twice' comments please!)

Not to mention sodding off family/friends/girlfriend for 62 weeks with days notice.

As it happens, they didnt offer me a place. But they didnt think to let me know. I had to call up 1 week before the start date and find out over the phone.

Quite ironic really as they expect you to have a stable/acive social and family life and a respectable job of some description. Yet, to actually accept a place you need to be unemplyed with no relationships and a foolhardy attitude towards money!

Rant over.

Honest!!

Ek

[sicky]

Sounds a bit unorganised, even like they're only running the scheme for the sake of getting their name branded about. Let's hope neither of these things are true!

Just to put my mind at rest, i think i'll try and find a number to call this week, during my time off work.

[newbie008]

Did none ofyou receive an email last week? I got one saying thanks for your email we have received your answers and you should find out by the end of this week if you got to stage 3. Got it last weds i think

[newbie008]

just had a phone call too saying Ive got to go to stage 3 next week in exeter.

[bigdaviet]

hey guys, new to the forum.

i just had a phone call this afternoon also asking me to come to the testing at exeter next week.

can anybody fill me in on what it involves exactly? or point me in the right direction to where i can find out?

[newbie008]

you should get an email soon i guess to let you know

[Jas1]

Hi guys got the email finally, is anyone going down to exeter nx week?

[kashmachine]

I got a phonecall on monday too, Its a bit short notice though! Anyone from the previous MAPS scheme got any advice as to what to expect in Exeter?

[Flies-like-a-chicken]

Has everyone who sent off the questions received an email confirming that it arrived?! I didn't get one and people are already getting phone calls now! If they don't want me because I'm unintelligent and have a face like a mandrill's then thats fine but to not get an interview because of interweb gremlins would be darn annoying (strong language I know!).

[newbie008]

maps was done through cabair last year so it will be different im sure. Got my email last week just saying we have received your answers, and then got a phone call on monday morning from jerez. Just give em a call..

[moogleman]

Flies-like-a-chicken,

I didn't get an e-mail confirmation after sending back the 8 questions either so we are in the same boat!
Think I'll try and give FTE a call tomorrow and see what they say.

MM

[Flies-like-a-chicken]

Cheers mm, I'm in the middle of my final uni exams so not got time to go chasing up FTE. Its nice to see consistency at this early stage though...

[bigdaviet]

i'm off to exeter next week.

does anybody know much more with regards to the loan? is it fairly easy to get with the backup of flybe's scheme? technically i shouldnt have much problem as I am a home owner, but it does worry me slightly...

as far as the tests are concerned, i phoned flybe and FTE and the word seems to be the usual psychometric speel about being yourself etc.

it seems that everyone got a phone call on monday. certainly i didn;t receive confirmation of the eight questions being received by FTE, but i did phone them last week to enquire what was happening...

[sicky]

I've heard nothing - no phone call, and no email confirmation!

Quite worried, and at the same time frustrated! I'd like to hear either way, just to put my mind at ease. Maybe a bit of chasing up is going to be what it takes, but i imagine if we didn't hear on Monday, then it's hard luck, i'm afraid. :sad:

[Jas1]

Hi guys i dont think you get a confirmation email but i did phone fte to make sure they had recieved mine within the three days.

Does any one know what happens on the interview day i.e. nx week, is it just an interview or do we have tests aswell it says you should allow 4 hours... very long grilling.

[cwsw103]

Gentlemen , Good Morning !!
I know this is a very popular thread title , however all the threads are pretty clogged up with opinions etc. I was wondering if anyone has been to Phase 3 of Flybe MAPS stage yet , the interview etc, I was wondering if anyone could give details of this stage please as am going down to Exeter soon to sit it myself

Many Thanks
Charlie.

[Mikebert4]

Are you heading down to exeter for the 24th?

I've been accepted through to phase 3 as well... I guess I'll see you there.

Did Jerez call you to confirm your attendance? When they got in touch with me, i asked them what the day would entail, they said the following:

-Applitude tests (similar to GAPAN's or the RAF's)
-Verbal Reasoning tests
-Numerical tests
-Interview

There might be more, but thats all i was told. should fill the 4 hours they estimate nicely.

I'm heading down the day before (tomorrow :uhoh: ) and staying at a hotel... 9am at exeter just isn't possible from Peterborough by train.

hope this lot helped :P

[chileconcarne27]

Hi Guys,

I'm off to exeter tomorrow aswell. I did the tests and everything last year at FTE, pretty basic stuff; its just the normal PILAPT test,. flying through boxes, keeping the lines over the dot and all the spacial awareness stuff.

The written tests are fairly easy too, if you can pass key stage 3 maths and english then it should all be a doddle. I got faily high percentages last year at FTE, around the 755 mark and they seemed quite happy with that to offer me a place there.

I've no idea what to expect from the interview, there may be a problem solving exercise to do, there is no wrong or right answer, they just want you to explain how you made your decision.

I think it starts at a fairly doo time, plenty of time for me to come from Guildford for a 1315 start. Has anyone else received directions etc yet? i don't exactly know where it is i'm going!?!?"

[Big Frank]

Hi guys,

The interview for Stage 3 is just based around 6 questions - all pretty standard stuff, ie: when have you demonstrated leadership etc etc.
As has been mentioned above, the Maths & English testing is all pretty straight forward, plus you get a calculator!!

Think they're probably leaving it pretty tight for a July start though!

Good luck for this week!!

Frank

[JimBigglesworth]

Hi guys,
Just wondering how you've all got on with phase 3 this week, I'm coming to Exeter for mine on Thursday and was wondering if anyone whose been could brief me on the format?
Best of Luck to all of you and i'll hopefully see you in Jerez in July :hmm:
Cheers,
Biggles

[chileconcarne27]

Hi,

I was in Exeter yesterday, the pilapt hasn't changed since i was there, there;s the basic 2d and 3d flying and then the 'negative right circle' bits, where you have to count how many mena have different shapes in their hands. and then you8 have to look for shapes in a puzzle; all fairly straight forward to understand.

The written papers are fairly simple too, all timed. You get 15 mins for the numeracy and 25 mins for the literay and numerical reasoning - and you get a calculator! Make sure its set to the right mode though (Mode and then press 2) or all your answers will come out in fractions!

And the interview with Ali is quite nice, just expanding on lots of the answers you all gavce in stage 2,.

Just be yourself and give them as much info as possible or they won't get to know you for the person you are!

Good luck all and hopefully see you in July in Jerez.

We should all get replies from FTE some time next week to be told whether or not we've been recommended to Flybe, and then we'll have to go for another interview with tghem in early June.

Well done for getting this far anyway!!

[chileconcarne27]

Just had a phone call from FTE about the last phase of the MAPS scheme, anyone else got an interview next week in exeter??

Would be good to meet some of the finalists.

Good luck everyone!

[Mikebert4]

Well the interview's all done and out of the way.

It was effectively just selection for Jerez, just hope I get through to the fnal stage - the interview with Flybe :bored:

for a scheme that aparently offered very little, there's an awful lot of interest. 282 applicants, but only 32 called to phase 3, purely on the basis of the phase 2 answers, ad only 6 places in total.

Supposedly we hear whats happening about phase4 within 2 weeks, but after the wait following phase 2, who knows?

I just hope they ive us a bit more notice, it's bad enough we're going to have to sort out a loan and pack ourselves off in about 4 weeks, as well as getting a day or two to be told you've got to get dwn to exeter... currently with no car, that was a lot of fuss. still.. I suppose these things set us out as keen and willing, which is what the airline needs.

Best of luck for the phase 4 selection! Let us know when you get confirmation!

cheers
mike

[fat_albert]

Got a call yesterday inviting me to the phase 4 interview in Exeter. You'd think I'd be happy, but I'm beginning to have doubts about paying off the BBVA loan on a Flybe FO salary. I'm now trying to think of some way to make the whole thing work out before going to the interview.....

Congrats to those who made it through :ok:

[chileconcarne27]

I got the call to the final stage on friday. They have finally managed to make a fast decision, a bit too fast for me as i was expecting a phone call later on this week and so i have to cut my gliding coompetition in spain short which is a complete bugger as its 32 degrees our here!!

My interview is at 1515 and i'm driving from around the basingstoke/guildford area in Hampshire so if anyone is struggling to get down then give me a shout, i'll probably be leaving at about midday but don't mind leaving a bit earlier if someone relly needs it.

I expect, that if they have all the final stage interviews on thursday which i think they do, then they'll have to make a fairly fast decision so we all get the cash sorted.

I am also wondering how to pay back to BBVA loan, and i have been wondering whether or not its all worth it, but if you've wanted to do it since you were tiny, like me, then i'm sure there'll be a way to work it out, if you want it badly enough.

So, if anyone wants a lift and can contribute a bit to petrol, then email me and we can work something out.

Good luck all

ps: what kind of questions do you think Flybe will be asking us? technical stuff or just trying to find out what kind of person we are???

[newbie008]

I pulled out of this thing. Its all one big lie!! Just publicity. First says you pay for the course and they pay for joc and TR. Get there and they say no its a 'bond'!! You'll be paying that off for years on flybes salaries!! Waste of time if you ask me but gd luck anyhow

[moogleman]

Has anyone asked Flybe directly about the specifics of the bond yet? Will it just involve working for them for ‘x’ amount of years, or paying them out of our salary whilst working for them for ‘x’ amount of years?

I admit that if the latter is the case, then it is perhaps not feasible to enter this scheme with a £63k loan. However, if it is simply the former then it will be more manageable.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone on the currently running MAPS scheme about the bond details they have been given. Also, if there are any experienced pilots viewing this thread then it would be helpful to know the rough bonding terms your airline would subject a new pilot to in exchange for their type rating.

MM

[cwsw103]

Got through to Stage 4 as well but muppets managed to schedule it in the middle of my finals. Rearranged for monday though. How many of us are fighting it out for final 6 Places then ?? :ugh:

[chileconcarne27]

I'm guessing that there are going to be about 15 of us, i would expect a 50% reduction of applicants since the interviews last week where there were 32 of us apparently.

The heat is on!!

[Big Frank]

Hi everyone,

Congrats to everyone who's got through to the last stage, although i'm still not sure about it! Think the "any questions" stage of my interview will be very drawn out!

Just wondering whether anyone has the address / directions for the interview tomorrow? I took my Stage 3 whilst out in Jerez, and haven't been down to the one at Exeter before.
Thanks!!

Frank

[fat_albert]

Well, I've spent the last few days trying to figure out a way I could afford to do the Flybe MAPS scheme - but found that I can't.

Despite the potential job at the end of the course, BBVA still require UK based assets as security on the loan. After the monthly repayment on the loan, the remainder of the flybe cadet salary would not be enough to live on for myself let alone wife and kid.

I think I'd be incredibly foolish to risk my house in this way so have cancelled my interview. I'm disappointed as you can imagine but think it's best in the long run. Plans are afoot, however, to run the modular gauntlett whilst working full-time, so all is not lost.

Good luck to all you other candidates, I hope it works out better for you.

[newbie008]

All I can say is good on you, this MAPS scheme is pants! I pulled out too..I think you'll be much better off doing a modular route and then looking for a job..chances are you'll be earning the same if not more and you'll have half the loan. Flybe think up another one for god sake you aint no CTC!!

[fray bentos pielot]

Anyone dropping out of an interview that would get them on such a scheme is a f**king idiot frankly. I'd give anything to work for a company like Flybe but if i wanted to i'd have to pay for my own JOC and be bonded for a type rating after spending 60k on training. And i still would if it got me a job.

Airline schemes with FTE and OAT are the best things going these days. And as for the CTC comment, well you're a muppet mate. 65k for a modular course with Bristol distance learning which costs around £3,000 and flying DA42's which cost about $15 an hour to run on fuel. Someone is making a lot of money somewhere within CTC my friends!

A few of you people really need to ask yourselves if you really want to do this cause it doesn't sound like you do! There are people out there who would give anything to be in your position. Turning down interviews, you w**kers.

[fat_albert]

Newbie008,

I don't think the MAPS scheme is pants as such. Any scheme with an offer of a job at the end is great and very rare these days. But I think this particular scheme is incompatible with my personal circumstances. I don't like the thought of giving up this opportunity but I just cannot support my family on £500 a month after the training. If FTE had answered my questions sooner, then I wouldn't have pursued it this far.

[newbie008]

frankly the comment about CTC refers to getting a well paid job with a good company and knowing your going to get looked after well. As for flybe nothing but chaos! No communication, no organisation, waiting weeks for emails! Now you make up your mind you wa**er.

[Chesty Morgan]

frankly the comment about CTC refers to getting a well paid job with a good company and knowing your going to get looked after well. As for flybe nothing but chaos! No communication, no organisation, waiting weeks for emails! Now you make up your mind you wa**er.

I had been with Flybe for 6 years now. Great job, great airline, great people. Frankly with your attitude I don't think you'd fit in anyway!

Good luck to you Fat Albert

P.s. Newbie. It's 'you're' not 'your'

Chesty

[Mikebert4]

*claps* well said chesty!

I've just got ther magic phone-call bringing me through to phase 4...

i'm to be down in Exeter on the 9th at 15:15.

how many have had the phone call here... if people are pulling out how many are left in competition for the last 6 places?


I don't think anyone here wants to know how 'pants' this scheme is, the point is that there's a job at the end of it right? I'm lucky as I'm still young so don't have kids/family to support etc... so i'm saying Hurrah for MAPS.

*bows*
good luck people!

[chileconcarne27]

Well said.

Personally, i have been very im pressed with the way that both FTE and flybe have organised these interviews, and i've always been give plenty of notice.

I had the interview with Don Derby yesterday, don't think it went particularly well but we'll find out next week sometime i suppose. I managed to get an earlier interview because one candidate didn't turn up and didn't give an excuse which i think was poor.

From what i found out, its a 3 year bond and the pay is preety good for a junior F/O. Luckily i don't have a family and kids to support so it should be manageable - just.

If you want it that much then you'll find a way to make ti work. I think those who have pulled out should have found out all the information much earlier and let some other people have a go, rathet than clogging up places that other people are desperate for!!!!!!!

[Big Frank]

Good points, well made!

I was down yesterday for the interview and thought the company and the scheme came across well. One thing that did bother me was that they said we would hear middle of next week - but if there are still people being interviewed on the 9th it might be the week after!!
Getting everything sorted ( ie: loan application ) within 4 weeks will be fun!! :bored:
Cheers,

Frank

[Rocky 13]

Guys, I am currently on the Flybe MAPS scheme (End of week 10), and along with the others have been very impressed with the way FTE and Flybe have managed us.
Best of luck to those of you who have made it to stage 4, hopefully see you soon here in Jerez. If I can answer any questions, feel free to ask.

RS.

Nice one Chesty, good words.

[Chesty Morgan]

If you need any advice or got any questions feel free to PM me.:ok:

Regards

Chesty

[kashmachine]

Anyone attented the stage 4 interview? How long does it last, as ive got to book my flights around the times. Im travelling from glasgow so its a bit tricky.lol.

Best of luck to all those who made it through!

[Mikebert4]

I'm off to Exeter this friday, had to rearrange an exam in order to get there in time for my interview :bored:

still... what kinda things are they asking? (i'm fishing here ;))
how long does the interview last?


good luck to everyone who's through to stage 4!

[chileconcarne27]

My interview last week lasted just under an hour. They ask all the standard interview questions really; why do you want to work for flybe, what aircraft do we fly, what is your eventual goal in aviation blah blah blah....not sure if they want to hear certain things from you or if they are genuinely asking for your own opinion.

One thing they said to me though was 'don't be nervous, this is just an informal chat'. Yeah, an informal chat that my career relies on!!! Just so you know.

Good luck!

[Big Frank]

Good luck to everyone who's been interviewed over the last couple of weeks!
Spoke to Carmen @ FTE and we'll apparently find out on Tuesday....not long to go now....!

How's everyone going to get the loan arrangements turned around in such a short space of time if they get through?? I applied for mine last week ( am going out to Jerez in September anyway, not being massively over confident! ), and they said it would probably take 4 weeks! Doesn't leave much time to get everything else sorted...! :bored:

Big Frank

[Mikebert4]

Well... that was it.

I was the last person they interviewed, I think there were 12-15 in total in phase 4..

We'll be hearing about it all on Monday or Tuesday, though Don Darby told me that the main dicision making was done Via Conference call last night..

Scary stuff!

Well, I'll wait with bated breath. I'm not sure my Interview went too well but you can never really tell, I may have said just the right thing, or I may have dumped myself in it... we shall see.

Best of luck to everyone, post on here when you know!

Mike

[kashmachine]

I was interviewed by Don and Cat just before you Mike, at 2pm. Hopefully find out on Tuesday what the result is!

I was told to mention Cats name to the stewards on my flight back to glasgow, they let me into the cockpit and check it all out! Made my day!

Best of luck guys,

km

[chileconcarne27]

So tomorrow it is then!!

Does anyone know if there is any other way of guaranteeing the bbva loan without a mortgage??

Also, did anyone else get asked about a preferred start date if they were selected? i was given the option of july or october and does that mean that they have two groups of six to select? If so then i'd go with two thirds of those who got through to stage 4 being offered a place, i can't imagine there were many more than 15/18 at the last stage - anyone know any different?

I would imagine that getting the loan done at such short notice wouldn;'t be that much of a problem, i'd hope that FTE would warn BBVA of a group doing a last minute application. But from what i've heard anyway, most people get to FTE with the loan still being sorted and usually they're about 4/5 months behind schedule, but FTE understand that and don't seem to make too much of a fuss about it, they'll get the money eventually and it's not the students' fault. And our applications to flybe were all done at short notcie anyway so hoipefully there will be a fair bit of give and take.

Is it an email/phone or post acceptance or rejection??

[Big Frank]

Chileconcarne,

I was asked if I had any preference over start date, but I just said "as soon as possible"!!! I would have thought that there would be a maximum of 30 applicants going for the places, seeing as the interviews were spread out over 4-5 days. But having said that, it's probably only going to be about 18.

I've already sent my loan application off as i'm hoping to go out to Jerez in September if I don't get through on this scheme. I would be a bit worried about going to Jerez without the finance sorted - what happens if for some reason your loan application got rejected?! You said that some were 4/5 months behind schedule - would that mean that you'd have to wait that long until you received the money through?? Scary thought - could be close to your first set of exams and then have the plug pulled on you!
Hopefully not. :ugh:


Frank

[chileconcarne27]

Frank,

Sorry, what i meant was that the money is 4/5 months behind, not them reviewing your application. They accept you pretty quickly, i got mine for last year ageed within a few days - not that i needed it in the end. Just when i was out in Jerz, some of the students said that bbva hadn't sent through any money 4/5 months into training.

It seems that FTE aren't too fussed about slow payment from bbva, i suppose they know that the money is coming at some point.

Chile

[chileconcarne27]

Well done to those who got in, i won't be seeing you there

:{

[Mikebert4]

*pats* I guess not all of us make it..

Aparently my step dad was at RIAT with Cat (from the interview) on the media team... amazing the things you find out...

well... I guess we'll all be hearing tomorrow then.. *is nervous*

I also got asked about the start date in October, and said exactly the same as you Frank.. ASAP!

Having to ask my Dad to act as garantor on the BBVA loan.. it's a lot of money but unless I really flunk and default on the loan there's hopefully not too much risk involved... the main thing is the amount that this loan relies on Flybe's offer of a job after training...

still... all shall become much clearer tomorrow... beter hop to drafting a Loan application for BBVA, either for July or September/October when i'll hopefully be heading over to Jerez anyway if I don't get this scheme.

*crosses fingers, toes, arms, head, hands, tonsils and every other crossable appendage*

[JimBigglesworth]

Sorry to hear you didn't make it this time Chilie, stick in there and keep applying for things, you'll have gained valuble experience of the way these things work and i'm sure you'll prosper next time round:) . I didn't make it onto the CTC scheme and was gutted but went away and looked at why they didn't select me and tried to learn from that. Its worked for me! Stay positive fella.

Saying that I'm going to be the first to go on this forum and say i've got onto the scheme and start on the July course. Would be good to hear from anyone else out there who'll be joining me, can't wait, bring it on.:ok:

Jim

[sicky]

There's going to be another MAPS scheme in both July and October this year, according to the FTE site. So for those like me, who weren't accepted early on, let's hope that we're allowed to re-apply and can be a bit luckier next time around.

[chileconcarne27]

Isn't it July and October they were selecting for this time round?

I would be surprised if they did it all again so soon after this selection process, if not then i hope to be able to reapply.

FTE did tell me they were going to phone me to discuss my options, its the second time i've been recommended by them to an airline but never got the final result i wanted.

On another note, when you got your confirmation letters through, does anyone have an email address for Ian Cheese???

[sicky]

http://www.flighttrainingeurope.com/page.php?page_name=news_detail&id=121

:ok:

[chileconcarne27]

Sicky,

I saw that advert on fte's website but i'm pretty sure those were the two start dates that they were selecting for this time round.

I don't think it means that they'll be running two more sets of applications.....however, should anyone know any different, i would be VERY interested in hearing from you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sicky]

I did also wonder if that's what they meant after re-reading it. I'm at the fte seminar on sunday so i'll see if i can remember to ask

[JimBigglesworth]

Is anyone that has been selected for the July start driving down to Jerez? I won't be taking my car (not sure it would make it!) but would be interested in maybe sharing costs with anyone who is? Let me know ASAP if yes, otherwise it will be a hefty excess luggage charge with Ryanair i guess.

[kashmachine]

Anyone enrolled for the MAPS october start? I got notification last week that I got in! well chuffed :O Anyone else got an October 9th start at jerez?

Congrats to all the guys n gals that got through, and best of luck to everyone who applied.

KM

[bigdaviet]

kashmachine,

well done on getting in! i think you and me did the written tests together at exeter.

unfortunately i didnt do well enough in the PILAPTs, but will keep trying. next stop Thomas Cook.

I was wondering, have you\are you applying for the loan from the bank? any info you have on this would be useful...

[kashmachine]

Sorry about the major delay in getting back to you bigdaviet, Ive not had a chance to get on the comp, unfortunately its been busted for weeks which has really slowed me down.

Im quite lucky as im starting the MAPS course in October - gives me MUCH more time to get my life sorted before heading down to Jerez. As for the loan, its touch and go. Turns out my parents property doesnt have enough collateral for the BBVA secured loan so ive had to resort to other measures such as pleading with my parents to remortgage their home and realease 65k of equity. All that begging has finally paid off, and they've argreed to remortgage (I love you mum, I love you dad:O )

If your going the BBVA route then you'll probably need to have most of the property paid, as the bank is very particular about its requirements.

Hope this has helped, Best of luck with the ThomasCook scheme.

KM


B

[sicky]

kashmachine - if you could pm me more details about the loan problems that would be much appreciated

thanks :ok:

[chileconcarne27]

The back of this week's Flight International shows an advert for another Flybe Mentored Airline Pilot Scheme.

Once again they'll be using FTE as their training provider. Go to www.flighttrainingeurope.com and fill out the first stage application form: closing date 5th November 2006.

Criteria are:
2 Alevels grade C and above (or equivalent)
5 GCSE's grade C and above including Maths, English and a science

Once again, you'll need to fund a full ab-initio course at FTE, then Flybe will fund a JOC and Upset Training Course.

Good luck to all those who apply!:ok:

Chile:)

[Yomomma]

Hello,

I have applied to the MAPS FlyBE scheme for the March 2007 start in Jerez, I have been invited to Stage 3 at Exeter and just wanted to ask if anyone had any information regarding the MAPS scheme?

I'm really confused - I know you pay 63K to join the FTE scheme, and FlyBe can employ you if you meet their standards - do you have to be employed by FlyBe if you meet their standards?

Do you get bonded to FlyBe with this course meaning you pay 63k so you can only work for FlyBe or do you get a choice of continuing with the Standard?

I would appreciate any response especially from people who have experince of this couse. I'm not sure whether the "normal" FTE course is better? IE leaves options open witrh regards to all airlines?

YM

[Yomomma]

If you do the normal FTE course it allows you to apply to all the airlines? You could afterall end up getting offered other jobs - eg on Jets?

Surely if you do the standard FTE course and meet FlyBe's standards or higher they will employ you anyway and TR and Bond.

Therefore is there any benefit of doing the MAPS FlyBE FTE scheme over the normal FTE scheme? Afterall FlyBe can still reject you during their MAPS course?

If I am wrong and the MAPS FlyBe scheme is still basically the Standard FTE scheme with the additional benefit that FlyBe can headhunt you during the course offering you a job - that you could turn down if you had another better offer? - please let me know. :hmm:

[sicky]

There's also upset training and a typre rating included, i didn't get through to phase 3 :( was hoping for the chance to show that i just had a bad day on the pilapt last time - at least i've still got my place at fte though :D

[Yomomma]

So do you get bonded to FlyBE if you are pre-selected for the MAPS FTE scheme? If so, At what point do you become bonded, before leaving for Jerez or is it when they agree to TR you in Jerez?

If you are paying 63k and being bonded you will need some "carrot" in return?

[Yomomma]

Sicky It seems there are three possible outcomes, please confirm your opinions

1, You are accepted on FlyBE MAPS scheme - if so bonded due TR and Upset training? Do you have the opportunity to look elsewhere if wanted? If I could guarentee myself a job on jets elsewhere could I turn down FlyBE? At what point would you have to do this?

2, If you are not suitable for FlyBE via exeter interviews then you get accepted on the FTE scheme as a non pre-selected candidate. You therefore have the opportunity of applying to a world of airlines inc the possiblility of impressing FlyBE at a later stage?

3, You are not successful with either FTE or FlyBE and offered no place

[rogueflyer01]

I just got a e-mail from them telling me the good news :) see you next week !:D

[OxfordFlyer]

Yomomma -

You are not bonded if you are accepted for the flybe MAPS scheme. Basically you are paying for the course as per a self-sponsored student. The difference kicks in with a bit of mentoring and monitoring from flybe during your training. If you meet all of flybe's requirements and they have a need for pilots (i.e. no guarantee), they'll pay for TR and upset at which point you'll become bonded to the airline (feel free to correct if this wrong). During your initial training I imagine there is opportunity to jump ship for another airline if you impress enough, as you are paying for the entire course yourself and not under obligation to join flybe (quick tip - don't mention jumping ship at interview).

I would have thought reading all the bumph and knowing what you were getting into before applying would have been wise:) . Good luck.

[sicky]

Sicky It seems there are three possible outcomes, please confirm your opinions

1, You are accepted on FlyBE MAPS scheme - if so bonded due TR and Upset training? Do you have the opportunity to look elsewhere if wanted? If I could guarentee myself a job on jets elsewhere could I turn down FlyBE? At what point would you have to do this?

2, If you are not suitable for FlyBE via exeter interviews then you get accepted on the FTE scheme as a non pre-selected candidate. You therefore have the opportunity of applying to a world of airlines inc the possiblility of impressing FlyBE at a later stage?

3, You are not successful with either FTE or FlyBE and offered no place

Yeah thats hit the nail on the head :)

[Cpt. Relax]

They will hire you if you are succesfull at the selection, and act as a normal student during the course.

Normally if they don't need pilots on graduation, you will be held in a holding pool I suppose.

[Yomomma]

Nice, sounds sweet - now just going to enjoy the PILAPT tests fo sho :rolleyes:


Cheers for the help

YM

[HK2006]

Did anyone happen to note down the approximate dates for Phase 4? I seem to remember it was sometime in December.

[Yomomma]

Phase 1. Application period: 23 October 06 - 5 November 06 inclusive
Phase 2. Questionnaire: 23 October 06 - 6 November 06 inclusive
Phase 3 (At Exeter): 28 November 06 - 30 November 06 inclusive
Phase 4 (At Exeter): 11 December 06 - 13 December 06 inclusive

;) YM

[Bigaircraft]

Hey all

Was just wondering what sort of questions are asked in the numercy and numercial reasoning tests? I know that some people disagree with giving detailed accounts to these things, but even information on how hard/easy these tests are, and what one should "brush up on" Any insight would be appreciated. Just thought I'd ask "ask and you may recieve and all that"

Cheers

[Captain Spam Can]

Do we have to pay for the phase 3 pilapt tests?? nothing was said in the email.:confused:

[rogueflyer01]

Do we have to pay for the phase 3 pilapt tests?? nothing was said in the email.:confused:

Yeah you do, please put 60K into my swiss bank account! :E

Only Joking, no you don't pay anything unlike some rival FTO's...:ok:

[cloudz]

Anyone heard anything yet? I think they said it would be towards the middle of this week.

Good luck

[Cpt. Relax]

How many people were in Fase 3?
And how many will be in Fase 4?

[planecrazy.eu]

From what i could tell there are 24 in phase three, and as an educated guess i recon they would want to half that for phase four, so 12, and there are six places up for grabs.

Thursday should be the day we know if we have made it or not, it may well be sooner. I am looking forward to the results, i applied for the hell of it, so no matter what i have got something out of it if its not a phase four invite. I have learnt what not to say in an interview, should have been obvious but i just had to open my mouth at the wrong momenet with the wrong thought on my mind, and it came out... Oh well hey, i have wrote a little about my phase three, will post it on my blog, i remember most questions from the papers and interview, they did have little variations person to person, there was seven questions that we all was asked, but different questions was asked inbetween the set questions that just i guess gathered some additional info.

Good luck to you all, hope to be seen you at phase four, would like it even better to see you out in Jerez and at Pilot Induction at FlyBe two years down the line...

[rogueflyer01]

Anyone heard anything yet? I think they said it would be towards the middle of this week.

Nothing yet m8'ty....if anybody wants to read what it was like during selection then yoda from the following site has written a nice piece...

http://dreams-of-a-pilot.********.com/

If you scroll down and on the right their is a blog archive. Then click on december 1st and december 3rd to get the 2 posts that correspond to the flybe selection...

Direct link...

http://dreams-of-a-pilot.********.com/2006/12/post-flybe-selection-day-1.html

http://dreams-of-a-pilot.********.com/2006/12/post-flybe-selection-day-2.html

[planecrazy.eu]

Hey All...

Was the results day today, so whos made it?

I can say, its not me =( but would love to hear from those who have. I have wrote on my website about the ordeal, and in the words of FTE. Better luck in the future.

my blog if you hadn't guessed is just my user name...

Good luck to all those on Phase Four...

[rogueflyer01]

phase4 yipeee :O .. see you lot nextweek...

[pilotarosa]

Hallo,
I know that the flybe sponsorship is closed for the moment, but could anybody tell me what the entry requirements would be, and what would flybe be sponsor?
I am particulay interested in the "Mentored Airline Pilot Scheme"for flight training europe.
thankyou

[TheDr2]

I don't know what the requirments are. As for the other question, BE would probably give you the training, then take it out of your pay check when you start working for them.

[chileconcarne27]

The FlyBe MAPS scheme is back up and running again!!! :)

Go to www.flighttrainingeurope.com and fill in the online application form.

Looks like they are recruiting for 2 courses in 2007, one starting 25th June and the other 10th September.

All the usual application criteria: 2 Alevels, and 5 GCSEs

Closing date is 4th March 2007

Good luck to all those who apply! :ok:

[FiiS]

Am I being dense ... ? Can't see a link or is it the non-FlyBe button to the right?

[babolat]

What if you pass through all the training successfully and no vacancy exists?

[Fabbe_Far]

Thats the industri, no promises:ouch:

[babolat]

Ok, I sent my application.

Does anyone know if they send any emails to confirm that they received it or how long they'll take to reply back? :confused:

[chileconcarne27]

Hi,

They don't send you and email to say 'thanks for applying' but you will receive an email saying whether or not you are through to the next stage!

FTE are very good at replying to applications within a few days of the closing date and subsequently with any more replies you may get further down the line. I have had to phone them once and ask how i did and they were very apologetic so i don't thinkmit happens very often at all!

BTW, does anyone know if there are any limits to applying? I was lucky enough to get through to the final stage about this time last year but wasn' given a place :{ but am wondering how long you have to leave it in between applications? I re applied twice after my initial good fortune and was rejected straight away! Anyone know why this may be?

Good luck guys and gals!
Chile

[babolat]

Chile,

Can you elaborate on what each stage involves?

Thanks!

[chileconcarne27]

Babalot,

The application stages go something along these lines:

1) Initial application
2) Mini essay style questions: they will ask you about previous roles of responsibility, why you want to be a pilot, what you think are the most important aspects of flying, what charactyeristics you have that suit a pilot etc etc etc. It is definitely better to write what you feel rather than try and give them what they've heard a million times. Try and be original but some of the answers are really obvious anyway. Don't lie about yourself as you'll get caught out if you get to interview!
3) PILAPT tests: 2D and 3D flying tests on a laptop and some spatial awareness tests. You'll also do a maths paper (you were allowed a calculator last year but not sure if they will in 2007), about 15 mins and it's strictly timed. You'll also do a verbal and literary reasoning paper, about 20/30 mins for each. For these, you are given a piece of literature and a list of statements, you have to answer which, if any, are true false, or neither.

You will also do an interview with FTE at stage 3. These are fairly relaxed as they want to see what sort of a person you are and whether or not they should recommend you for the final stage. A few technical questions, expanding on your CV/applucation etc

4) Final interview with FlyBe. About one hour and by this stage there are only about 20 ish applicants. Quite a few technical questions - if you don't know the answer then admit it - don't try and bullsh!t

After that one you'll be told if you got through or not.

All exams and interviews take place at FlyBe HQ at Exeter airport.

Hope that helps!

Chile

[babolat]

Thanks dude!

That gives me an idea on what to expect. But I must admit the CTC and OAT/NetJets Europe programmes are far better than this one.

Don't know, but that's the impression I have so far.

[chileconcarne27]

Babolat,

Don't know too much about CTC but i would say, IMHO, that this is a WAY better scheme that the NetJets/OAT one.

#1 You get to train full time in a nice warm and sunny place with loads of leisure activities to make studying that bit easier
#2 It is far cheaper than Oxford - everything is included in the 96,000Euros and there really are no extras. Unlike OAT who giev you a price, then say you have to stay in their accommodation at £££'s per week - oh and it's England where it rains most of the time
#3 I felt OAT was a bit of a processing plant when i went there but FTE is personal and really friendly

I suppose it depends whether you want to fly GA or commercial, but either way, it's a job and it's in an aircraft so how wrong could you go either way?!?!?!

*Preparing for incoming from Oxford fans*

chile

[farfadet]

I think the refund of the loan is a problem with the Flybe scheme: I'm not sure the starting salary is sufficient to live correctly after the monthly refunds.
I'd like to get more concret informations about this concern.

[babolat]

I have applied and received the questions.

I am worried however about funding the course. Does the BBVA loan need to be secured? I am not a UK citizen.

Thank you for any replies...

[arpansingla]

Babolat, when did you apply and when did you receive the questions? I applied on the first day of the scheme and have not received anything as of yet.

I should imagine the loan needs to be secured. The HSBC one with Oxford requires the loan to be secured if you are borrowing the full £50k.

[babolat]

I applied the evening the Flybe/MAPS scheme opened and I received the questions today however I'd have to turn it down most probably due to financial reasons.

[arpansingla]

Just checked my spam folder for my e-mail account, and saw the e-mail from Flybe there with the questions. Its a good thing I had a quick look in there!

[revilo_rehsif]

I got the questions through today. I was just wandering if any one has any idea how much we should write.

[socloss]

Hi there,

I got the questions through yesterday and am going to answer them this weekend. Not sure why we only have 3 days to reply and I hope thats 3 working days! Guess it's best to just be honest, give different examples for each Q and prob no more than 4/5 lines for each, you dont want to bore them!!

it also says the next stage is between 23-27th March, assume it's a 1 day event as there's no way it would take 4 days.

[chileconcarne27]

OK, so i didn't get through again this year!

What confuses me though, is the fact that i got down to the final 18 in 2006 but wasn't given a place!!!

Have FlyBe changed their entry criteria since last year? Or, is it because i have applied fairly recently, that they don't let you apply more than once every 12 months? And also, after my initial success (almost) last year, i applied about twice more in 2006. Is it reset at each application?

Lots of questions i know but i phoned FlyBe and was told they'd phone me back: whatever!

Good luck to the rest of you
Chile

[arpansingla]

Chile, did you get through the initial selection process i.e the application form on the FTE website?

[chileconcarne27]

No, i didn't even get sent the questions! I'm really quite annoyed with it really, cos last year i was obviously good enough but now i'm not!

I'm tempted to phone FlyBe again but i wouldn't know who to talk to about it! Ian Cheese?

Chile

[arpansingla]

This may sound silly but have you checked your spam filter for your e-mail account? I thought I had not been sent the questions either but for some reason my spam filter thought the e-mail received from them was spam.

Or it could be that you are not allowed to re-apply for another year, but you'll have to check that up with someone from Flybe perhaps.

[ask26]

It might be worth calling FTE.
When TFly had an application similar to Flybe about 18months ago with 4 stages I applied. Got rejected Phase 1 due to age, called them as I knew I was ok within the rules and got through.
Phase 2 never heard from them so thought I'd failed again, luckily at FTE anyway for their application process, whilst there asked what had happened to my answers. (I knew they were good as I'd gotten through on CTC and OAT/Thomas Cook at a similar point) and sure enough the e-mail had been sent to the wrong place.
So if you know you are good enough see how you can get through. I'd consider FTE first with Mary Jo then Carmen, else try Paula Westlake or Penny Bromley at Flybe.

[chileconcarne27]

hey,

Thanks for the name checks! I have emailed FTE first to see what they say and then i'll have a stab at FlyBe again!

fingers crossed!

[captain111]

Does anybody have any idea when we find out whether we've got through the essay stage? I sent mine in on Saturday and am anxious to know how long I have to wait to find out!

[chileconcarne27]

Captain111,

At least give them 5 working days!!! :=

FTE are pretty quick but not that quick. They will set a closing date for the essay questions, this will be for everybody, and then they will go through them, but usually once they've received everybody's answers.

They usually answer within a week of the closing date so give them a chance. I know you're keen and that's highly commendable but worrying isn't going to make it any easier.

Chile

[arpansingla]

I'm in the same position as you captain111. Could be a while though because the next stage is in late march....

[revilo_rehsif]

I was just wandering whether anyone received any sort of confirmation email when they sent off the essay questions, I sent them on saturday but i havnt had any confirmation email. Im just making sure because i would be pretty peeved if flybe/fte never received them.

[planecrazy.eu]

The only way to make sure if they get it is to receive an email report when the email is opened as they DO NOT send out confirmation emails. The next one they said out is, see you xxxx.... they might tell you if you didnt cut it, not sure, i got further last time than that, shot down at the interview, i was having a bad week though...

[AJMcC]

Sorry if this has been discussed already; just two quick questions.

1. What is an upset training course?

2. Is the CPL/IR with MCC a long-winded way of saying frozen ATPL? Or if not, what's the difference, and what kind of rammifications will this have?

Thanks for your help.

[AJMcC]

OK, just worked out the answer to Q2 so please ignore!

[Potential]

AJMcC,
What is the answer to your Q2 as this is something that I've been wondering about too?

Cheers

[AJMcC]

Well, if I've understood correctly:

CPL/IR - allows you to act as pilot in command for single pilot aircraft or as co-pilot, when you are flying for commercial purposes. Or as pilot in command or co-pilot for any non-commerical purpose.

ATPL - entails another theory course. At this stage you are pretty much unrestricted in what type of flying you want to do. After the theory course, you are issued with a frozen ATPL, which means you have all the theoretical knowledge to command any commercial flight, just not the experience. Therefore, to 'unfreeze' (or thaw??!!) the ATPL you have to complete 1500hrs of flying.

i.e. the answer to my question was: an ATPL theory course.

I think that's right, but please don't quote me on it!

[farfadet]

Has someone already received an answer after sending the essay questions for the FTE/Flybe MAPS ?

Thanks

[Another Biggles]

I'm still waiting for a reply, though I only sent mine off about 5 days ago so I suppose I should wait a while longer yet.

Regards,

AB

[planecrazy.eu]

I havn't head either. Usually they say if you have not got to the next stage, so i am guessing they just havn't finished reading questions, or are still waiting for some or maybe they are holding off to see if they can pick up a few more candidates at the Flyer Show next week?

No news might be a good sign, it might be in need of some more applications, but i doubt it...

So prep for the next phase, there are pilapt tests, four of them, deviation, patterns, flying boxes and left hand man...

There are also General maths, numerical and verbal reasoning...

Prep can just be revising basic math, like long dividion, multiplication, trig and bodmas, fractions and thats about it, rest is pretty usual and easy math...

[Sinbad_633]

I'm in on this too, I sent my questions back about 10 days ago, and I can't wait for the results. I have a place on the June course at FTE anyway as a self sponsored (deposit paid) but I would love to go as a Flybe cadet.

Apparently stage 3 is very similar to the standard FTE selection, since I did that quite recently I am hoping I can carry those results over to Flybe selection.

A friend of mine starts at FTE as a Flybe cadet in about 2 weeks, he said it took a few weeks from answering the essay questions until the results came out.

[FiiS]

Expect about three weeks for responses ...

[ppl_student]

Well if I remember correctly, selection days are 23rd to 26th? So they need to let us know sometime next week... or early the week after.

Anyone know if they run the selection over the weekend? Or are there only really 2 selection days? (24th and 25th are sat, sun)

For thomsonfly, there were 5 days with 2 sessions per day and 4 people per session.... assuming the same structure and only 2 days, thats only 16 people to the next stage :}

[FiiS]

Your choice ... you have to weigh up the risks and commitments ... but there's that phrase about counting chickens ..!

[5CV]

What sort of technical questions can we expect from Flybe if we're lucky enough to get through?...............anybody have any experienced examples!!

[Ian_Wannabe]

Hey - Any chanace we could get back to the main point, if someone has an answer to 5cvs' question about the technical questions that'd be great...?

[ppl_student]

It always amuses me to see who reads these forums... doesn't take a rocket scientist, or an aeronautical engineer (!!) to work out who anotherspaceman is.... just goes to show its important to watch what you say on here!

Anyway, can we please get back to the topic guys. Some of us have been asking questions which have just got lost in this ongoing bitching session! Is the selection being run over a weekend, or only on the Friday and Monday? And what kind of technical questions are likely to be asked at the final interview...? assuming any of us other than g1344304 manage to get there...

As an aside - is the loan period usually over 7 years? I know the interest rate is slightly lower, making the payments around £800 a month over 7 years. Has anyone figured how how to survive the first couple of years (starting on £24k) trying to pay back a £60,000 loan, rent/mortgage, bills.. food...? I'd love to work for flybe, would love to fly a turboprop, like the sound of FTE... not bothered about earning tonnes of money, but I'm slightly concerned at how I'd survive...

[g1344304]

ppl_student,

Im wondering the same thing about salaries. The main concern is whether one would enter on the sponsored cadet salary scale (starting salary only £20k) or the normal FO salary scale. I beleive it would be very hard to keep paying the loan on that type of salary after tax.

[ppl_student]

surely it's the direct entry scale?! As I see it, the FTE scheme is self sponsored, whereas the Cabair one is partly funded by Flybe so starts on the cadet scale. I guess if you went modular and did everything as cheaply as possible, then the loan payments wouldn't be a big deal, but with a full integrated course (be it all inclusive and cheaper than other UK integrated courses) to pay for, it's quite daunting on a turboprop salary...

[anotherspaceman]

PPL - right attitude - you will do well. Everybody has been in the same boat - if you want it enough you will manage!

Think about it - what would you do if you finished the training and were not not getting 24K? Scratching around looking for a job with the bank manager saying "now about that few quid I lent you"

It is an investment - where there is a will there is a way. Do it.

[Deano777]

g1344304

Mate time to move on now, I would use anotherspaceman as best you can, this guy will have lots of good advice for you to heed

[Ian_Wannabe]

Hey - for those who asked about the replies to the email questions.... I got an email this morning asking me to go to an interview this month.

Get checking your inbox/junk mail - Looks like the ball has started rolling

Good luck all

By the way - I'll be travelling from Leeds and to fly with Flybe it's gonna cost over £100, to get the train its gonna take about 9 hours and likewise with national express its gonna take about 9 hours and cost £70. Anyone know of a cheaper alternative?? Im a bit broke at the moment and I might not be able to afford the trip :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:


Ian :ok:

[g1344304]

I am going too, flying from manchester, return flights almost £150 but i am looking into flights to bristol and then getting a train.

[g1344304]

Also, does anyone know Flybes policy on type rating? Is it paid for fully by the airline or is the pilot bonded for three years?

[anotherspaceman]

g1344304

You have moved house! (to the sky) :)

They pay - you get a 3 year square bond. This is being reconsidered.

[ppl_student]

Well done all those who got through... looks like I haven't made it as no email yet :* I got asked for interview for the thomsonfly scheme at FTE last year... and used the same written answers for the flybe one... so guessing they must cross-reference the applications and think I'm lazy! Oh well...!

[g1344304]

Indeed anotherspace man!, lesson learnt lol

[anotherspaceman]

Life is not a rehearsal -neither is the Linen Mill, The Mal or Smith Pattersons
Spent a wee while at Thiepval
lol ;)
Good luck

[socloss]

Hi guys,

I got an email back from Flybe asking me to attend Phase 3 on Sunday 25th March at 9am. I think I will travel down to Exeter the night before and stay at a Travelodge as I am coming from near Oxford.

Does anyone know what we should expect at this stage as they dont indiocate on the email. Is it an interview or maths/physics assessments or PILAPT? :rolleyes:

Any ideas would be most welcome.....

socloss

[revilo_rehsif]

Ok so i didnt get in, i got the email today. Its a bit of a kick in the nads to be honest because i had pinned all my hopes on this; After only yesterday i was dropped from the OAT/Netjets scheme.:ugh:

Good luck to everyone who did get in and i wish you all the best.

[bb503]

Yup I'm heading down for an interview as well (on the 23rd). I think (and I may be wrong) that it's the pilapt tests, some maths/verbal reasoning etc and an informal interview/chat with FTE. If you get through this stage then there is a more formal interview with Flybe after Easter.
Please feel free to add to this and correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding of it.
Well done to FTE for sifting through all our answers as quickly as they have (I figure there must have been a lot!) and all the best to everyone that's moving on to the next stage. If you didn't get through, don't give up yet! It will be an ongoing scheme with perhaps another window in a few months, so reword your answers and keep on plugging away.
Ben
P.S. Any idea what sort of numbers there will be left at this stage and what they are cutting us down to? Cheers.

[chileconcarne27]

Just had an email from FTE saying that my application is not progressing to Stage 3...normal you might say except for the fact that they sent me an ewmail after my initial application saying that i hadn't got to stage 2!

Anyone else had anything similar?

I also got dropped from OAT/NetJets so i'm feeling a little low.

Chile

[planecrazy.eu]

Hey, through too...

The try and cut down it down to double the places, so if there are six places there around 12 for flybe interview. I think there are 36 or so at phase 3, so not really that many.

I have just heard i cant get a C1 though, i cant read all of the 6/9 line with my lazy eye, can read some, but some isnt good enough.

So, i am re-evaluating my options.

[newbie008]

how many people have got a ppl who are in selection for MAPS?

[Ian_Wannabe]

Yeah I was wondering about this too .... I got through to the next stage and I have a PPL.... anyone else?

[Ian_Wannabe]

*bump* :ok:

[socloss]

Chaps,

Has anyone done phase 3 of Flybe down in Exeter yet? If so how did it go and what are they testing us on?!:ugh:

socloss

[g1344304]

Here is my summary of stage 3 and how I felt it went. I feel it went pretty well overall but its hard to say as we dont get feedback for our tests and I dont know how my answers and own personal experiences compare to others in the interview.

The maths and verbal reasoning tests seemed very simple (although the bearings question threw me off) but i have said the same thing about lots of tests before and made many simple mistakes. I felt my interview went well but there are a few things I am kicking myself for not saying. I stumbled on the question about "what would happen if you went on the flight deck and you thought you could smell alcohol on your very experienced respected captain's breath?" which was stupid because I was expecting that type of question and had prepared for it.

The most worrying part for me was the PILAPT tests. I felt comfortable about the first (hands) test as I have done similar tests before but had not done the second spatial awareness (shapes) test before and I have no idea how well I have done on it to be honest. My worst test was the deviation test (two lines which move). I did improve on each run but all were lowish scores. However on the last test, flying through boxes, I got very high scores which I am quite happy about.

Anyway fingers crossed. Should know by the end of the week! Hopefully if I am not put forward for the MAPS scheme I will still make the grade for and be allowed to attend FTE.

[socloss]

Well I had my assessment this morning. It's pretty hard to say how I think Ive done but here goes. The maths was fairly simple though I was time pressured and could have done with another 5 mins. I found the verbal reasoning quite tough though. PILAPT was fine, though I agree the patterns one is def the hardest.

Interview was OK I think, quite informal and friendly. Lady was very pleasant and tried to get the best out of us I think. We were told it could be up to 2 weeks before we hear due to admin times and that Flybe make the decision and seeing as they have just acquired BA Connect, their time is pre-occupied.

Anyway fingers crossed.......:)

socloss

[Another Biggles]

g1344304,

I was at the assessment on Sunday afternoon (yesterday) - is this when you went? I.e. I wonder if I met you (there were only three of us as the fourth guy was stuck in traffic).

I felt the tests, interview and verbal reasoning went well, but I didn't put enough preparation in for the maths and I suffered badly during those two tests. This was made all the more worse by the fact that only a few years ago I would have sailed through them...oh well, back to revision (I guess I'll try my luck with CTC when I'm feeling more prepared, though I hear their PILAPT tests are harder)??

Regards and best of luck to all,

AB

[newbie008]

done both MAPS and CTC and must say I found the verbal reasoning the hardest. If you struggled with pilapt at MAPS, wait till you encounter CTC - its a lot harder..Found the pilapt at maps pretty easy to be honest

[g1344304]

Sorry Biggles, I did not attend on Sunday. I wasn't even aware they were conducting assesments on Sunday!

The reason I felt comfortable about the verbal reasoning tests is because I have completed much harder ones recently when applying for enginneering internships and the FTE batch seemed simple in comparison, but like I said I could be completely wrong, english never was my strong point.

[socloss]

I have done CTC and MAPS and can defintely say CTC PILAPT is harder, there are 2 extra tests for a start. Having said that the CTC maths test is very simple, if you dont get near enough full marks then something is up. Whereas the MAPS one is tricky due to the time pressure but you are allowed calculators.

Anyway best of luck to everyone..........:eek:

socloss

[Ian_Wannabe]

What comes next in stage 4 guys? Is it Sim testing?

Also - Im trying to find the page with all the info of what the job offers should you be offered it. I had it before but it looks like the training centre website has taken it down... Shoulda saved it!

Thanks in advance and good luck to you all

[anotherspaceman]

Ian
A flybe selection which will consist simply of an interview.

(edited due talking thru @rse)

[Ian_Wannabe]

Ahh thought so - Thanks spaceman. So I assume its a more grilling interview then?

[Sinbad_633]

A friend of mine has just started at FTE on MAPS and he didn't do a sim ride.

[anotherspaceman]

Thanks sinbad
Post edited
Was thinking about DE recruitment system
Sorry

[Ian_Wannabe]

Not to worry! Cheers guys

[Sinbad_633]

I just got an email asking me down to stage 4 next week. :)

Anyone else got their news?

[socloss]

Yup Im going down there next Friday 13th, when are you going Sinbad?

Think it's the last 19 and they choose 12, 6 for June and 6 for September.

socloss

[Sinbad_633]

I'm booked in for Thursday 12th. Did you get a phone call or just an email? The email said "As per recent telephone conversation.......etc" so I was a little puzzled.

Good luck....

[bigmustard]

Hey sinbad
what time are you there Thurs?

[socloss]

I got a phone call from the chap who's interviewing yesterday and have been sent an email and in the post too. Trying to work out whether to drive down in the morning or find a B&B!

When did u opt to start?
Any idea what they will ask us?

socloss

[g1344304]

Il be down next week too, might see some of you guys beforehand but I have to leave pretty sharpish afterwards to catch my flight back.

[Sinbad_633]

I'm there in the morning on Thurs. I think I will make a sharp exit afterwards too as I should be able to get back into work for the afternoon so I don't use a whole days holiday. It is also fun too when you go into the office in a suit and some comedian always says "ha, ha you been for an interview"? I will answer "yes.... yes I have". :} I hope to start in June, get on with it an all that.

[Easy226]

I have been invited to the final stage next wednesday - recieved an e-mail yesterday. Looked at my roster and luckily i have a day off!

many thanks

dan

[socloss]

Dan,

Were you at Flybe on Sunday 25th March in the morning assessment?:sad:

socloss

[Easy226]

yes i was come to think of it - are you the guy from Jersey?

[socloss]

No, that was Phil. Im the other one who was the oldest:ugh: !

Congrats on getting through to the final stage though buddy

[Easy226]

oh right was good to meet you even though it was for such a short space of time! congrats too about getting through to the final stage!

[socloss]

Has anyone got any feedback from their MAPS interview? When do they tell you whether you're the chosen few or not? Do you just arrive, have your interview and then leave?

socloss

[DannyT]

Socloss,

Had my interview yesterday afternoon buddy, you get the usual 2 people interviewing you and you don't get any feed back, just the usual chance to ask any questions you've got and then your on your way home!

[socloss]

Thanks Danny T,

I assume the Qs are along the lines of why do you want to be a pilot and what do you know about Flybe?

Best of luck to you when the results are out.

socloss

[skyline181]

Thats the interviews all finished now then I guess.......now the wait...

How did everyone feel they went?

Good luck to everyone who was at stage 4!