FLIGHTSTORE sold my details!

[TC_LTN]

Along with a few people on the forum, I have long wondered where LOOP got my address from. Well I think the mystery has been revealed in my case, this morning.
I received an email from David Calderwood requesting me to take exactly the same action as the PFA Campaign Group requested several days ago regarding Two Jags latest attempt to kill off GA completely in the UK.
I try to formulate e-mail addresses whenever I use on-line shopping to uniquely identify the source of subsequent SPAM as well as being very careful to check and uncheck those relevant boxes in the small print.
Needless to say that by taking a cursory glance at the address to which LOOP's latest attempt at plagiarism was addressed, I have absolutely no doubt that Flightstore have supplied them with my personal details. I will not be using Flightstore again.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Fact of life, mate. You're going to worry yourself into an early grave if you try to safeguard your data to such an extent.

QDM

[TC_LTN]

I don't think it should be a 'fact of life'.

By making a purchase on-line I don't and shouldn't expect that purchase to generate SPAM from vendor or whoever they choose to sell my details too, particularly when I check boxes on micro-font hidden statements specifically requesting this action doesn't happen.

[SkyHawk-N]

So that's where they got my Wife's email address from!

Oh and my Parents email address as well!

I'll check my pet dog's email account a bit later, just in case.

[dwshimoda]

They also contacted many of the flying clubs in the country, some of who provided details of their membership.

This raises a whole number of Data Protection issues, and if you wished to pursue it, you could probably get Loop and the people who privded your details in a lot of trouble - provided you have checked the box that tells them they can't use your details fort marketing purposes.

That being said, although it's not the most amazing publication in the world, it occupies 20 minutes every so often.

[dublinpilot]

By making a purchase on-line I don't and shouldn't expect that purchase to generate SPAM from vendor or whoever they choose to sell my details too, particularly when I check boxes on micro-font hidden statements specifically requesting this action doesn't happen

Quite agreed!

[FLIGHTSTORE]

Flightstore Response

Flightstore would like to thank everyone for their comments today on this forum and we are delighted to be able to set our customers minds to rest over this confusion.

Firstly, Flightstore have not now, ever or will ever give our customers details to ANYONE. We are happy to confirm that we did NOT give your details to LOOP magazine. So, obviously the confusion is "What Happened ?"

Flightstore is dedicated to this industry, in particular the stability and growth of Private Airfields and Schools which we all depend on.
Even though we are totally invloved in private aviation, we admit even we did not know about this very worrying situation of the change of status of airfield land that would allow an easier path to development and so resulting in the sale of our airfields.

We would like to thank LOOP publishing and their investigative journalism in bringing this situation to light.

LOOP approached us and made Flightstore aware of the situation and asked us for help.
In light of the potential damage this new law could inflict we agreed to send out an information bulletin by email to our vast database of pilots.
LOOP publishing sent to FLIGHTSTORE the email and we then sent that email to our users via the FLIGHTSTORE server.
At no time did we release your details to LOOP.

The reason why no mention was made that this was from Flightstore is that it was not a FLIGHTSTORE standard product email. We did not want to dilute the message. We only have 13 more days to make the government aware their is opposition to this law. We need to ACT NOW !!. The future of private aviation hangs in the balance. So far LOOP Publishing, the P.FA and Flightstore have attempted to make a stand against this development. We hope, now that we have explained what actually happened, we will gain the support of this magazine, FLYER, and the other pilot magazines who pertain to be supportive of our superb leisure activity.

We would like to wish LOOP good luck with the campaign and happy flying to all our customers.

Flightstore Pilot Shop

[FullyFlapped]

I also received this mail.

I've just checked the email header : it does indeed seem to have come directly to me from the Flightstore mail server.

With that put to bed, it's now time for some MP bashing, I think !

FF :ok:

[SkyHawk-N]

we agreed to send out an information bulletin by email to our vast database of pilots. and your database containing details of pilot family members, who just MAY have purchased items for said pilot's birthday, which MAY be in a few weeks time ..... :{ That will teach me for reading PPRUNE forum postings!

[dublinpilot]

Thanks for the clarification flightstore.

dp

[WorkingHard]

Firstly I should like to thank Flightstore for the clarification, which I am sure will be welcomed by all. Secondly does this not also show the power of PPRUNE when we get such a good result so quickly. Thirdly I thank TC_LTN for highlighting it.

[wombat13]

I have absolutely no doubt that Flightstore have supplied them with my personal details. I will not be using Flightstore again.

It is a fact of life that GA flying and flyers have b*gger all friends. I too had sourced the origin of the email to Flightstore AND NOT Loop.

In the absence of an apology to Flightstore from TC_LTN (who I am sure is busy at work and will get around to it later), let's make sure we don't start turning on ourselves. I for one have no relationship with Flightstore beyond being a customer, what they need is encouragement for doing something constructive.

TC_LTN, a simple email or phone call to Flightstore would have clarified the situation and avoided an unfair and unjustified hysterical moment.

The Wombat

[TC_LTN]

I am afraid I don't feel minded to apologise to anyone. While Flightstore's efforts to emulate what other organisations have already publicised may be laudable, I am still concerned on two counts.

1. I supplied my name and address as part of an on-line commercial transaction and did not expect that transaction to result in unsolicited e-mail regardless of its nature.

2. I now have very good reason to suspect that at least one copy of LOOP that I have received, again unsolicited, was directly as a result of this transaction with Flightstore. If Flightstore assure me this is not the case then I will apologise unequivocally for THIS suggestion however given the very specific content of the address involved, I remain to be convinced.

[dwshimoda]

Well this is where my email came from:

"Dave Calderwood" <[email protected]>

That doesn't look like a Flightstore server to me, and my email programme, rightly, flagged it as spam.

Now, obviously I am as concerned about GA in the country as everyone else, and have written to MP using the draft letter available on another thread. But I think Loop may not be totally adhering to the Data Protection Act at the moment - something my company would get absolutely screwed for disregarding. I know it's an important issue, but I wonder if Loop's enthusiasm for the subject is colouring their thinking a little...

[FunkyMunky]

dw,

Is that perhaps just the reply email address? The email could still have originated from the flightstore servers; it's very easy to present a different From/Reply address than that from which the email actually came. This may have been done to make it easier to reply to the email directly?

[ThePirateKing]

dwshimoda,

Where an e-mail says it's from, and what servers actually sent it are two totally separate things. I could quite legally and easily send you an e-mail purporting to come from [email protected] if I desired. :}

Rgds,

TPK:ok:

[dwshimoda]

I could quite legally and easily send you an e-mail purporting to come from if I desired
Okay Bill ;) , so how do I find out who is behind the email, or is not that simple? Just curious as I did not know that.
DW

[FunkyMunky]

Your email program should allow you to view the actual headers of the email, where you can see the originating servers. It'll be hidden in a right click menu somewhere...depends on the email client.

[wombat13]

Well this is where my email came from:
"Dave Calderwood" <[email protected]>

dwshimoda, using MS Outlook, open the email, click view, then options. This is, under normal circumstances, the way to find who your emails come from. You should see Flightstore as the sender which is what others (including me and TC_LTN) have been getting.

TC_LTN, you are coming across as a petty individual who does not have the gumption to admit you made a mistake.

Now, what's the best way to Balaclava????

The Wombat

[Air Soul]

Well done Flightstore - you have done the right thing for GA, ethically.

[SkyHawk-N]

let's make sure we don't start turning on ourselves.

you are coming across as a petty individual who does not have the gumption to admit you made a mistake

Hmmm? :E

I'm sure Flightstore now realise they made a bit of a mistake, even though they have ruined my birthday surprise :} . That's my last word on the matter, I promise.

BTW: Thanks very much WR.

[funfly]

So you get a FREE publication regularly in the post and one that is (despite the knockers) actually quite a good read.....
...and you are complaining?

[SkyHawk-N]

So you get a FREE publication regularly in the post and one that is (despite the knockers) actually quite a good read........and you are complaining?

Eh? :ugh: What FREE publication?

[avidflyer]

..despite the knockers...

What knockers?? Didn't see any in my copy....

(Mine's the grey mac over there).

[Flyin'Dutch']

The motives may be quite laudable but it is clear that Flightstore and Loop have acted in contravention of the Data Protection Act.

To let someone else use your database of emails to send unsollicited emails is a clear breach, despite the woolly explanation of the hows and whys.

[wombat13]

The motives may be quite laudable but it is clear that Flightstore and Loop have acted in contravention of the Data Protection Act.
To let someone else use your database of emails to send unsollicited emails is a clear breach, despite the woolly explanation of the hows and whys.

FD, methinks you have not read the thread and are perhaps posting as a follow on from what you have read in the locked thread at Flyer? Flightstore sent the emails, not LOOP. No one now (apart fro you) is suggesting this on ths thread. Even the original starter has stood back from the email argument.

The Wombat

[Flyin'Dutch']

Sorry Wombat,

I suspect you are not au fait with the Data Protection Act.

I got an email from Dave Calderwood in his role as editor of Loop.

Flightstore used their database to disseminate that email.

Whether they 'sold' their database or let it be used in the way they did makes no odds for the act.

The crux of the matter is that they used their database for a purpose other than for which they had obtained the information.

The eight principles

The Data Protection Act 1998 sets out eight rules that data controllers must follow for protecting personal information - these are known as the eight principles.

Personal data must be:

1.processed fairly and lawfully

2.processed only for one or more specified and lawful purpose

3.adequate, relevant and not excessive for those purposes

4.accurate and kept up to date - data subjects have the right to have inaccurate personal data corrected or destroyed if the personal information is inaccurate to any matter of fact

5.kept for no longer than is necessary for the purposes it is being processed

6.processed in line with the rights of individuals - this includes the right to be informed of all the information held about them, to prevent processing of their personal information for marketing purposes, and to compensation if they can prove they have been damaged by a data controller's non-compliance with the Act

7.secured against accidental loss, destruction or damage and against unauthorised or unlawful processing - this applies to you even if your business uses a third party to process personal information on your behalf

8.not transferred to countries outside the European Economic Area - the EU plus Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein - that do not have adequate protection for individual's personal information, unless a condition from Schedule four of the Act can be met

If a data controller's processing of personal information does not comply with the principles, the Information Commissioner can take enforcement action against that data controller.

I hazard a guess that it will require a fair effort to convince the Information Commissioner that sending people emails and an aviation magazine is a specified use of the data that people have provided to Flightstore when they bought their CRP-1.

While you and many others may well not mind whether their data is used in this manner, others do.

Maybe you can respect the views of the latter.

[TC_LTN]

No one now (apart fro you) is suggesting this on ths thread. Even the original starter has stood back from the email argument.
The Wombat

I did suggest it and I continue to suggest it. While I may have been quite happy to make my point and watch Wombat be unnecessarily aggressive and rude in response, I will not put up with Wombat suggesting I have 'stood back'.

[wombat13]

While you and many others may well not mind whether their data is used in this manner, others do.
Maybe you can respect the views of the latter.

There is no point in getting into an arguement re the 8 points of the DPA you raise. It will go nowhere.

Where this thread started and should finish is if Flightstore provided LOOP with customer email details. It has been shown that they did not. Somewhere in the middle, it was expanded to include if Flightstore provided addresses for the LOOP distribution base. I have no information on this and have never addressed it.

Thus, my points stand.

TC_LTN, it was never my intention to come across to you as rude. If I have I apologise unreservedly.

The Wombat

[High Wing Drifter]

Am I the only person not getting Loop? Despite having bought something from Flightstore AND registering on the Loop site :(

[Flyin'Dutch']

Flightstore allowed Loop to use its [Flightstore] database. They have admitted that for the emails in their response on page 1 of this thread.

LOOP approached us and made Flightstore aware of the situation and asked us for help.
In light of the potential damage this new law could inflict we agreed to send out an information bulletin by email to our vast database of pilots.
LOOP publishing sent to FLIGHTSTORE the email and we then sent that email to our users via the FLIGHTSTORE server.

Someone alleged that LOOP used postal addresses from Flightstore's database to send out LOOP magazine.

I don't know whether that is true or not.

[wombat13]

Flightstore allowed Loop to use its [Flightstore] database. They have admitted that for the emails in their response on page 1 of this thread.
Someone alleged that LOOP used postal addresses from Flightstore's database to send out LOOP magazine.
I don't know whether that is true or not.

FD, I think we are making the same point here. And yes, I agree that not all people welcome Flightstore distributing emails on behalf of a third party.

My point all along has been and remains that this is a long way from Flightstore furnishing LOOP with client email addresses.

The Wombat

[Flyin'Dutch']

My point all along has been and remains that this is a long way from Flightstore furnishing LOOP with client email addresses.

I think that you will find that to the recipients and the Data Protection Act there is no material difference between what LOOP and Flightstore did and the situation if LOOP had been given/bought the database from Flightstore.

[dublinpilot]

Someone alleged that LOOP used postal addresses from Flightstore's database to send out LOOP magazine.

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I think we'll have to accept Flightstores response on that.

Flightstore have not now, ever or will ever give our customers details to ANYONE. We are happy to confirm that we did NOT give your details to LOOP magazine


I hate unsolicited mail as much as anyone, and have made complaints to our own national regular in the past. I also thought that what Flightstore did was wrong, when first reported by TC_LTN.

However, following Flightstore response I have no problem with what they did. I accept that they never gave me email nor postal address to anyone else. I also accept that, other than this one email, that I have never in the past got an unsolicited email from Flightstore. And finally, and most importantly, I accept that Flightstore sent this email in my best interests, and in GA's best interest.

For that, they have my full support, even if you could argue that they have technically infringed the DPA (which I wouldn't agree they have, but that's what Lawyers are for!).

Flightstore. Thank you :ok:

I think that you will find that to the recipients and the Data Protection Act there is no material difference between what LOOP and Flightstore did and the situation if LOOP had been given/bought the database from Flightstore

Well, to this recipient, it is a world of difference. Making a once off email in my interest, is a long way away from handing over my email address to a third party to use/sell as they feel like.

dp