NATS Interview (Changes) - [Merged] [Archive]

Bettyboop

28th Jan 2006, 13:11

Hi Peeps

I have my interview on 13th Feb and have just been informed that instead of the usual 2 interivews and a computer test as I believe has happened forever they've told me there is 1 interview, computer tests, a group exercise and motivation paper.

Just wondered if anyone had heard similar as to the changing face of interviewing?

Im sure I still need to be learning all the same stuff but would just be slightly worried there'll be something I haven't covered that could prevent me from entering the glorious world that is ATC.

Betty:p

Jerricho

28th Jan 2006, 15:01

Hi Betty,

Sorry I can't really help, but I'm very interested to hear more about this "motivation paper" Hmmmmm............Gonze, you out there mate?

Standard Noise

28th Jan 2006, 20:33

Whatever happened to the good old 240 question 'personality questionnaire'? It was just fab.
What is a motivation paper anyhoo? Most people who went in on my course were motivated by money ie not having any, owing loads (from student debt to poll tax) and wanting the 12k NATS was offering during training.

'Group exercise'. Mmmm, don't like the sound of that. To much chance of the more shy members of the group being overshadowed by the loudmouths.

SilentHandover

28th Jan 2006, 22:37

A well trained HR team should be able to pick out the best prosepective members of staff from a group exercise and these are very rarely the loudmouths of the group.

Or so I am assured

SH

Mikey2006

29th Jan 2006, 18:48

I went through the new interview process about 3 weeks ago and was quite worried about it beforehand. To my surprise it was fine!

The motivation paper was a multiple choice test on the information NATS should have provided you with. The group exercise was playing a game, quite good fun, then commenting on how well we worked as a group and ways we would improve if we were to do it again. You get no feedback from any of the interviewers about how you've done. There was 5 of us there for the day and we were all fairly similar personality wise, probably stemmed from the original personality questionnaire.

Then came the dreaded computer tests. Not much to say about those, sure you've heard it all before. The interview was mainly HR questions with a few technical questions from an ATCO, who was also present. The interview lasted about 1 1/2 hours.

I don't think you can ever tell how well you do with the HR stuff but if you know the technical part you should be fine. I was, I'm just waiting for my medical now and security clearance before I start college on the ****e new wages!

Hope it goes ok.

Jo

mattcarus

29th Jan 2006, 22:29

Lookatthesky

31st Jan 2006, 07:27

If the pay deal is agreed, about 10p an hour :p

Standard Noise

31st Jan 2006, 08:03

mattcarus- still the same questions asked again and again but in different formats, just to tease out the 'right' answers?

SH - some of the loudmouths do get through, unfortunately, but thankfully on our course they were then sorted out by the complexities of the dreaded aerodrome course.

SilentHandover

31st Jan 2006, 08:28

SN

Perhaps we should retrain or replace our HR team then????

Dances with Boffins

31st Jan 2006, 11:42

What is interesting is that the scores from selection [and the "Induction Week"] will actually arrive at the College with the trainee. So everyone will know who was a loudmouth, who is a bit shy, who can't count etc.
This will enable steps to be taken from the outset to fix any "problems" rather than just leaving them to fester until the final case-conference.
Might make a difference?
Of course we are assuming that HR send the results to the correct College....

SilentHandover

31st Jan 2006, 11:50

So have NATS got rid of the testing day before the interviews, do you now go direct from the online reasoning tests to interview or is that just an extra set of tests?

I'm not joking sir

31st Jan 2006, 14:24

So have NATS got rid of the testing day before the interviews, do you now go direct from the online reasoning tests to interview or is that just an extra set of tests?
If you leave a message for HR asking them, they may have got back to you in time for April!! ;) :ok:

AutoP

31st Jan 2006, 14:39

So have NATS got rid of the testing day before the interviews, do you now go direct from the online reasoning tests to interview or is that just an extra set of tests?
You have the online maths (mainly statistics based) test, followed by the usual day of aptitude tests that seem to have been running for eternity. Then (if successful, obviously) you proceed to the interview stage, the format of which appears to have changed slightly recently.

Bettyboop

1st Feb 2006, 08:48

Hi

Well seeing as I posted the question in the first place I should probably respond myself. Although I really don't know where I'm getitng the time as I'm flat out studying for my interview.

Yeah, there's the initial Maths test that's done online, then is selection day, with the personality, statistical tests etc and the motivational test about ATC stuff.

The interview stage, I've now been informed, is an interview by both a member of HR and an ATCO where its HR stuff with some technical questions thrown in, a group exercise (teambuilding kind of stuff), the computer tests and another motivational test...which I'm guessing goes none to similar from the one in the initial selection day.

Hope this clears up your curiousity Silent Handover. I feel like an expert already and I haven't even gotten through it all yet. I'll keep you posted as to how it actually goes though!!!

Betty:p

FlightDeckDave

1st Feb 2006, 09:05

AutoP

1st Feb 2006, 09:22

Hi there, I've got a NATS selection test next Monday 6th Feb and as far as I am aware I've only been given the Word document to prepare from, which is for the motivation paper I presume, however the last post talked about doing an online Maths test which I have not done or heard about. Is this maths test done on the selection day or before hand?
Second question: is 'discussions with an air traffic controller' actually an interview and if so do you have to prepare for it, or is more of a lecture to all the candidates?
Don't worry if you haven't had to do an online maths test before your test day; there were some people at my test day who had done one, others who hadn't. You've been invited to the tests day, so you needn't even worry about the online maths test again.

The discussion with an ATCO is just that. They'll give a talk and show a video, you're not tested by the ATCO at all. Sometimes the ATCO doesn't even turn up so you might get a longer lunch break. Whoopee doo.

On the tests day you obviously write your name and ID number on all test sheets, but apart from that they have no way of knowing who you are, so feel free to ask even the most inane of questions. It's only if you're invited to the interview stage do they know exactly who you are etc.

The best description of the test day is give by a Billy Onions in the pinned thread above this one. Check it out.

Standard Noise

1st Feb 2006, 12:32

So everyone will know........who can't count etc.
This will enable steps to be taken from the outset to fix any "problems" rather than just leaving them to fester until the final case-conference.

I thought we had a world class education system to sort that out!:rolleyes:
Isn't there something slightly wrong with a training system where we consider people who can't count suitable to train as ATCO's? Or am I the only person who sees something wrong here?

Dances with Boffins

2nd Feb 2006, 09:25

SN
Up until now, any information gleaned during selection and induction was not given to the College until the trainee actually failed, which is a bit late. i used "can't count" as a sort of catch-all rather than detailing the full gamut of psycho-social problems that beset yer average teenager. These problems, if they are known about, can be dealt with during training if you know about them, rather than simply treating everyone the same and thus failing some poor schmuck who didn't even know he was loud and opinionated until the training review.
I don't think we take anyone who can't actually count - but the standard of mental arithmetic from today's trainees is a lot worse than it used to be...
That'll be our world-class education system then.

darkhorse1001

5th Feb 2006, 17:24

My first post so forgive any errors. just had first selection day at london hilton last tuesday, consisted of two personality questionaires (about 280 multiple choice Q's in total), A 'discussion' with an ATCO that really was just a discussion and not part of the assessment. Four multiple choice aptitude tests (mental arithmetic, spacial awareness, data checking and diagrammatic), And finally a motivation paper about the document they should have sent you previously. I haven't done any online tests at all, all done with good old pen and paper. The aptitude tests all followed a similar theme in that you're under pretty severe time pressure and on each paper the questions start easy and end near impossible.

keeping fingers crossed for a positive response.

Aiguilleur du ciel

6th Feb 2006, 20:46

had my selection tests today but none of the normal examiners shown up even though NATS HR had pre-booked this date and hotel :uhoh:

therefore we started 3 hrs late!!!!! :zzz:

rikvanteinde

7th Feb 2006, 22:38

had my selection tests today but none of the normal examiners shown up even though NATS HR had pre-booked this date and hotel :uhoh:

therefore we started 3 hrs late!!!!! :zzz:

I was there too. Not a very good thing considering that I had to catch a flight back to the Netherlands and nearly missed it (I wasn't the only one). Good thing was they managed to speed up the process, and were able to take the tests in 3 and a half hours. Still wonder why it takes them 7 hours to take the tests if there aren't any problems. Is there anybody that can give more details about the group exercise??? It's nice that people are saying they have done it, but that's not helping the ones that still have to do it.

G-UNIT

8th Feb 2006, 12:10

I also attended the Euston test day on monday, all I can say is I hope NATS aren't paying too much for the services of Centrica. Every test was delayed so they could photocopy more answer sheets, timings were way off on more than one test (usually in our favour, but will screw up accurate comparisons of candidates). The answer sheets are supposed to be machine readable but the copied ones were wonky at best. First test started at about 1145! and we were still finished by about 1630?? All credit to the ATCO from Manchester who battled through all this and gave a great talk on what it is to be an ATCO. Hopefully be joining you soon.

Aiguilleur du ciel

8th Feb 2006, 13:04

rikvanteinde

9th Feb 2006, 11:40

couldn't agree more, how can you keep your concentration going when you had mentally prepared yourself that morning!! :ugh:

discussion with ATCO has spurred me on even if that means taking a pay cut

Well, if you can't keep your concentration in this kind of situation, than you shouldn't be an air traffic controller in the first place :hmm: . I admit the situation wasn't ideal, but as an air traffic controller you have to be able to respond flexible to changes in every situation and stay focused and calm at all time. Look at the ATCO that was there: he managed to keep his head cool and took care of things, while he had to inform +/- 50 applicants about the fact that testtakers did not show up. Thanks to him I was still able to catch my flight in time.

But that is all off topic stuff. I want to know more about the changed interviews, especially about the group exercise.

Gonzo

9th Feb 2006, 21:59

If you feel moved to comment on the performance of the recruitment company (I believe they're called 'Capita'), please let HR know your thoughts. I've had my own 'experiences' with them when I've been the ATCO present on the test day, and any feedback you can give NATS HR might be acted upon.

FlightDeckDave

10th Feb 2006, 16:40

Hi guys, I was also another candidate there on the monday, and have to say it was a bit of a shambles by 'Capita' or 'Centrica'??. As you've read, not only were the examiners late due to a mess up with booking them, but when they did arrive they appeared rude and slighty sharp with people. They came across very unprofessional and whilst I was taking my exam in the small room in the second part of the afternoon, there were people looking at their question books before the exam had started whilst the examiner left the room!!! On her return she continued to type throughout the exam even after a candiate asked her to stop as it was distracting him - it didnt bother me as I just got on with it and took it in my stride, (infact I thought it was slightly amusing) but I think it was unfair to expect people to come all this way, spending their time and money for things to then be in chaos.

I was also very suprised that the ATCO just started with a question/answer session as I thought there was going to be a formal presentation, however I actually found this to be a much better way of getting information across, he was friendly and put everyone at ease, and described what Air Traffic Control was really like - infact he really sold it to me, and I just hope I get through the rounds.

I totally agree with the guy above saying if you cant deal with being messed around then why are you applying to be an ATCO, from what i understand things can be a bit unpredictable and you should just get on with it. All I hope is that it hasn't impeded on my results... Would be nice to know if anyone does get through just so we know the results aren't fudged in anyway!

G-UNIT

10th Feb 2006, 16:52

I know they said 'within 15 days' but i'm checking my e-mails every couple of hours already! Anyone from the monday 6th Feb assessment day heard anything yet??

Aiguilleur du ciel

10th Feb 2006, 16:59

I know they said 'within 15 days' but i'm checking my e-mails every couple of hours already! Anyone from the monday 6th Feb assessment day heard anything yet??

nothing yet, it usual takes a fortnight - but no news is good news!! - the waiting is killing me....:bored:

supaotter

12th Feb 2006, 19:57

I've just read all the stuff relating to the tests. I'm a well-scared ATSA looking to withdraw her application I think.....I'll take the redundancy in 10 years when IFACTS comes in.:oh:

jfromero81

14th Feb 2006, 14:43

Hello, with all due respect to the large post just under this one, which is really a great source of information -thanks to all who contributed to it. However, I wanted to start a new post to talk about more recent experiences with the NATS test/interview. I have one coming up soon in Bournemouth, and was hoping to discuss. Cheers!

G-UNIT

14th Feb 2006, 15:08

Check your PMs

Aiguilleur du ciel

14th Feb 2006, 16:33

just been informed that i have made it through to the interview stage :O

this is where the hard graft starts from now i suppose!!!:8

not sure whether to book it for March or June!!

Roni f

14th Feb 2006, 16:43

Hi Guys

I attended the interview on Monday the 6th i heard on the Thursday that i had been successful due to go for my medical on the 3rd of March. As for the comments regarding the testing day i had no problem with it what so ever everyone there was pleasent and informative. The group excersie was of particular interest as you get an understanding of the various skills each individual can offer. Im interested to know how you get on guys let me know.

Can anyone recently through college give me a steer on living arrangements/ costs ? Is there any particular area recommended.

FlightDeckDave

14th Feb 2006, 17:22

Weh hey i'm through to the 2nd stage of ATC interviews, just gonna make my booking now but now quite sure which. Was just reading above that G-Unit was saying check your PM's, can someone clarify what could be in that info, and why can't someone PM me???

:bored:

tiger_bob

14th Feb 2006, 17:30

Wannabe Pilot

15th Feb 2006, 07:56

I didn't make it through! :{

Whats the crack with waiting 12 months before you can apply again??? I thought you could apply whenever???

I have also been told that NATS don't give feedback....I thought they did???

I also didnt make it past the testing day in BHX, I'm really gutted about it too.

I'm disapointed with the lack of feedback but most big companies are the same now.
I thought that it was 6 months before you could re-apply again, but I guess, I have 12 months to sort myself out, work out where I went wrong, improve, and do it again.

Shame really I didnt think that it went too badly.

For everyone asking about the group interview with the ATCO, the lady that did ours was really helpful its nothing to worry about. She didnt (seem to) mind talking to me more informally waiting for the train either. Typically cant remember her name though!
Matt

darkhorse1001

15th Feb 2006, 11:25

There's a little law called the DATA PROTECTION ACT that makes it illegal for companies not to disclose any info they hold about you. They are at libertly to charge a fee for providing the info (i believe a max of £10, but don't take that as gospel), but it might prove a useful route for those (including myself) who want tho know where they went wrong.

I cant say whether you'd be better off trying NATS itself or the HR company? And if the info has already been binned then it might prove a dead end, but if the info is there they have to tell you!

more info at http://www.ico.gov.uk/documentUploads/Subject%20Access%20FAQ.pdf

Having said all of this i am no lawyer, and take no responsibility for the outcome!

Roni f

17th Feb 2006, 00:12

Hello Darkhorse

you seem to be very aware of your rights however data protection DOES NOT cover national security "where deemed relavent" therefore i would strongly advise against any future ATCO fighting the system just get your finger out and do the best you can at final interview.

READ READ READ

BigBoeing

17th Feb 2006, 09:50

Hi, I have my interview day coming up and was wondering if someone who has recently been through them can tell me if the old style interview of 60 HR style questions are still asked?? No feedback etc... Or if they are different as I understand the tech and HR interview are now combined. Also what do you do in the group exercise? Thanks for the help

BB

darkhorse1001

17th Feb 2006, 16:35

Roni f, couldn't agree more. i wouldn't suggest anyone cause a scene in trying to extract the info. and i imagine anyone who is refused on the basis of being a 'threat to national security' would probably have a good idea themselves as to what denied them the job. It does seem unfair tho that NATS wont tell ppl why they didn't make the grade. I fully intend on re-applying in 12 months and am just frustrated i cant spend the time concentrating on my weakest points. I imagine alot of ppl are in that boat with me?

DonDave

17th Feb 2006, 16:57

For the record, i have done 3 assessment centres and interviews for NATS, and i also know people in the HR dept. The reason they do not give feedback has nothing to do with 'national security' (possibly the bizzarest excuse ever) and 100% o do with the fact that they have hundreds of applicants and do not have time. (Cant be bothered). You can quite easily get feedback through data protection (people have used that excuse before) but all you will get is 'you did not meet requirements for (either/or) numerical reasoning, motivation etc etc... it will not be specific.

If you failed assessment centre then yuo really have only to think of the fact that you either didnt get enough questions right on one of the papers or you did not get the 'right' answers on the personality questionairs-although i have been told that if you dont pass that you are a complete nutcase (or lying).

most likely either the maths or the motivation paper (what they are most concerned about) which, for the motivation paper you need about 70% to pass.

dont worry about feedbak, the questions you got asked in assessment will be EXACTLY the same next time round (have been for years) so take the experience and learn.

Kirk Biddlecombe

17th Feb 2006, 17:55

261A

17th Feb 2006, 18:26

If a candidate got all papers correct except one or possibly two such as all correct except spacial and motivation - would they still get through and all other combinations?

Also, if you were to answer half the questions correctly out of each test, but answered each would you pass - in other words is it accuracy or who is quickest to do all questions?

SilentHandover

17th Feb 2006, 22:50

261A

Each test has a pass mark which must be reached, if you fail one test you do not get through. The percentage pass mark varies with each test. For example. I believe in Basic Checking the passmark is 66/80, so if you attempt 65 and get 65 correct you will fail.

I am assured that you cannot fail the personality test, it is purely for HR's benefit to work with the answers you give for any interview you get to.

Kirk Biddlecombe

17th Feb 2006, 23:13

I heard there were only 40 data checking questions...no?

66/80 is a pretty high mark needed to pass. I think I've nailed how to do any question they will throw at me from the 4 categories...I just need to work on speed without losing accuracy now...Still a month and a half to go though so...

Kirk

Roni f

18th Feb 2006, 09:03

Hi Darkhorse

that is a fair call that was my third and final chance when i passed last week, i get where you are comming from i found that it wasnt my ability in question it was my maturity and lack of position of responsability to get real time experience of managing real situations as they arise ,having the ability to be reactive as well as pro active.Not sure what you do at the moment but a year of something diferent may help.

As for the new style interview you still have 60 Q's without any extra info on them from the interviewer.

cheers

SilentHandover

18th Feb 2006, 09:24

Kirk

I recall there are 40 numerical checking questions and 40 letter based questions. You needed to get 66/80 over the two tests.

I'm not joking sir

18th Feb 2006, 11:27

I am assured that you cannot fail the personality test, it is purely for HR's benefit to work with the answers you give for any interview you get to.

That's true. However, those tests are designed to tell if you are trying to second guess what you think they want you to answer rather than the truth. It's worth emphasising, answer honestly, do NOT put what you think is the "right" answer. You will get found out.

rikvanteinde

19th Feb 2006, 13:34

Hmmm, all these changes...getting me a tad worried - and I havn't even sat the initial selection tests yet!

I have my initial selection tests on the 31st March - if I were to pass how large is the time gap between getting my results and having an interview.

Kirk

The gap between the results of the selection tests and the interview is entirely up to you. You can book your own interview date.

Still no one who can tell us a bit more about the new interviews/group exercise??? That's what this topic is all about isn't it?? Maybe Bettyboop can answer the question, since she's the one that started this thread and meanwhile attended the interview. It's not very helpful to read about people that did attend the new-style interview and only say not to worry about it. Just tell us what exactly it is all about. It's not "top-secret" is it? :confused:

Bettyboop

19th Feb 2006, 16:17

Basically, the same format is relatively still there that you've already read about on here. The only main differences are:

only 1 interview (1hr 30mins), an ATCO and some-one from HR. They'll ask you the HR questions first and the Technical stuff after (could be different for you though). I can't really help you on the content as it'll be totally different depending on which ATCO is interviewing you but the HR stuff is the same as what's on this website.

The group exercise is a board game, where you just sit around and play for half an hour following rules they give you and then are asked to discuss your strategies and where you went wrong. They sit around and watch you interacting with eachother. The game is easy,the talking about it after is the hard part as you have to fill the whole time up, 10 minutes.

As for everything else its pretty much the same.
If you want to know anything else ask me. I'm more than happy to help other people out for sure!

Betty:p

261A

19th Feb 2006, 17:59

How do you current trainee ATCO applicants prepare for the selection tests?

Other than the sticky and various threads throughout this site, I assume you buy books, visit other websites etc. so what titles, sites do you use?

Kirk Biddlecombe

19th Feb 2006, 21:35

I have the following books which I am currently using to prepare for the selection tests:-

- How To Master Psychometric Tests Mark Parkinson
- How To Win At Aptitude Tests Iain Maitland
- Test Your IQ H.J Eysenk
- Abc Of Air Traffic Control Graham Duke

Hope this helps,

Kirk

BigBoeing

20th Feb 2006, 14:03

Is the new 'Motivation Test' in the new style interview day simply the technical interview renamed or is it a test along the lines of the motivation test that we all did at the initial assessment day?

261A

20th Feb 2006, 16:21

Cheers Kirk for those titles.

Any Spatial Reasoning books available? Books I have do not have the 'flat' sqaures that feature in the selection tests.

Kirk Biddlecombe

20th Feb 2006, 18:18

For those of you that find Spatial Reasoning tricky...

'How To Win At Aptitude Tests' Iain Maitland

This book contains numerous examples of the folding cube exercise.

The Psychometric Test book by Parkinson is fantastic and well worth the money.

In general there isn't a huge amount of practice you can get on spatial reasoning but here are a few sites that Parkinson recommends for practice papers etc...

http://www.profilingforsuccess.com
http://www.shldirect.com
http://www.faststream.gov.uk
http://www.ase-solutions.co.uk
http://www.morrisby.com
http://www.ukcoursefinder.co.uk
http://www.testingroom.com
http://www.allthetests.com
http://www.psychtesting.co.uk

My friend has recently been given an offer as an Investment Banker in the City with ABN. He had similar selection style tests, and gave me some practice papers. SHL are widely used by many recruiting companies. My friend told me to look on the JP Morgan website too.

McKinsey & Co. a high-end consulting firm also offer some guidance at http://www.mckinsey.com - This might be going a bit too advanced but it gives you an idea.

Hope this helps,

Kirk

261A

20th Feb 2006, 19:41

Kirk,

The book title you quote - I looked it up on amazon and the review says the book tests are very bad and full of errors? Can you confirm this or is the book good to practice spatial tests?

Have visited all the sites you listed and most of them are useless as they are asking for registration and don't work in one way or another. :confused:

Thanks for the titles and sites though - some are good so every little helps!

On the same topic, can an ATCO confirm or anyone what the current tests at selection stage are?

nicki_jacko

20th Feb 2006, 20:01

Hi 261A,
Looks like we are in the same boat! My NATS application got accepted which I'm particularly excited about!
I don't know if you have tried these people yet but I've been in contact with the Cwmbran Training College, i had a horrible feeling about the aptitude tests so I thought I could find extra training somewhere.
The head of the ATC training is Steven Ward. He has been an excellent help to me and even offered for me to take a look round the college and have a chat with the students and instructors there just to get an idea and feel for the tests. He gave great advice! Don't know if that helps though?

Wish you luck for the 31st though!

Nicki :)

Rozzy

20th Feb 2006, 20:24

OK, having looked around the forum and posting my own (Help!!!) thread, im getting particularly worried about my assessment day, do I really need to go out and buy books just to pass a recruitment test? Or will a hunt round the internet for info and some practice tests suffice?? I'v been put in touch with an ATCO who is going to try and get me into the Manchester center for a day, so obviously I will be able to discuss the job and get pointers from people, but as for the tests! I'm what could be construed as being a wee bit nervous!

261A

20th Feb 2006, 20:30

Don't worry about being nervous - I am in process of writing my application same age as you roughly (18 in March).

I do however, think that you should do quite a bit of preparation but then I am just a mere applicant (nearly) so what would I know!

I would like to know the list of tests so I can find relevant revision, practice tests etc. in books or online.

Kirk Biddlecombe

20th Feb 2006, 21:23

The aptitude book is slightly dated but neverless offers good practice for all the arithmatic and spatial reasoning questions we'll be tested on...

I don't sit my tests until the 31st March but I believe the type of tests we will sit are as follows:

- Numerical Reasoning (30 questions in 10 mins)
- Spatial Reasoning (40 questions in 20 mins)
- Diagrammatic Reasoning (40 questions in 20 mins)
- Data Checking (40 questions in 5 mins)

- Motivation Paper (30 questions in 20 mins)

- Personality Questionnaire (248 questions)

Just get as much practice as you can...and as for books, look on Amazon pre-owned or eBay for the cheapest prices.

Good luck!

Kirk

PPRuNe Radar

21st Feb 2006, 16:07

Flower pointed out somewhere that some of the information in the 'sticky' at the top of this Forum is out of date. She's absolutely spot on :ok:

Hopefully we are about start working on providing individual threads for NATS which will highlight the relevant updated facts regarding the general application aspects, the tests, interview topics, etc, etc. These threads will then be linked via a 'sticky' FAQ at the top of the Forum. Once these are in place, there will be no need for anyone to post the same questions week after week (or month after month) - cutting down some of the trees so we can see the wood.

Watch this space :ok:

261A

21st Feb 2006, 16:26

Kirk,
Can you explain what is involved in the diagrammatic reasoning?

Also, check your PMs!

Cheers

Kirk Biddlecombe

21st Feb 2006, 16:32

261A:

Diagrammatic reasoning involves a set of 3 or more squares each containing a shape which may be shaded/unshaded or partially shaded. Next to each of the squares is a diagrammatic instruction which tells you to do something to the shape inside the square. Working downwards you have to complete all the instructions until you are finished with a new set of squares. The new set will match one of the answers you can choose from.

The diamgrammating instructions are as follows:
- Shade the whole shape in
- Alternate shade (i.e. if the shape is a square which has been divided in 2 and shaded on the left side, you would clear the left side and shade in the right side.
- Swap the shape with the shape in the square below
- The shape replaces the shape in the square above

Might sound a bit complicated but it gives you an idea. I'll try finding some practice examples online for you...

Kirk

261A

21st Feb 2006, 16:39

Ok sounds a bit complicated with the instructions!

Cheers

G-UNIT

21st Feb 2006, 18:13

I found the following book very useful:

'Psychometric Tests for Graduates' by Andrea Shavick

All the test examples within are by SHL Group, who are the company responsible for setting the NATS tests. A happy by product of this is the examples are identical in format to the ones given at the assessment day.

I'd be more than happy to let someone have the book free of charge as i've already done the test day. Anyone who wants it PM me with where you want it sent.

flower

21st Feb 2006, 19:01

It is some 16 years since I did the tests, we didn't know what to expect or have samples to try out before hand. Knowing however that we would be doing paper and pencil tests I spent hours and hours doing the types of tests that MENSA give you plus lots of logic type problems crosswords etc. They get your brain thinking quickly in a certain way.
Although you need to do some prep for them what they are looking for is your type of reasoning, no amount of cramming will really change the way your brain works so don't get yourself so uptight about the tests.

261A

21st Feb 2006, 19:03

G-UNIT does that book has test examples of all the tests if not all then does it include spatial and digrammatic test examples?

Check your PMs

G-UNIT

21st Feb 2006, 19:11

Yes, it has examples of both the spatial and diagramatic tests. They are exactly as you see in the test proper.

The only caveat I would add is that the examples (for diagramatic test) have only four or five commands as opposed to seven or eight in the actual test. (the extra ones are evil e.g. reverse the order, position 1 put in position 3, 2 to 4, 3 to 1 etc) truely horrible. I'd also add that its only the last dozen or so on the test that use these more difficult commands.

rikvanteinde

21st Feb 2006, 22:05

You don't need to buy books for the aptitude tests. These tests are designed to be made after a 5 minute explanation, and believe me... they are NOT that difficult. The stories of people that tell you the tests are extremely hard come from the people that made it through these tests and who like to believe (or make you believe) they made it because they are extremely good and talented.

Reading all these books just makes you extra nervous. Stick to studying the "introduction to" booklet. Apart from that look at the test examples on the website that is mentioned in the sticky interview thread, so you know what to expect. All I can say is... don't worry about these tests!!! If you have the talent to be an ATCO you will very easily pass the aptitude test.

Buying and reading all those books is a waste of money and a waste of time in my opinion! :cool:

Aiguilleur du ciel

22nd Feb 2006, 07:11

To be honest here, I never bought any books in regards to the selection tests but soley concentrated on the motivation paper

I simply brushed up on my basic mental arithmetic but that was about it, it's all about performing on the day under the time restriction and pressure, this will differentiate the potential candiates with suitable aptitudes to those who don't

I know it sounds silly, but don't over revise on the aptitude tests and keep a cool head......;)

russ148

22nd Feb 2006, 17:40

Hi im new to the forum but found it very useful. Is anyone attending the sleection tests in manchester on the 5th of april. Even after reading all the posts i still dont know really what to expect. With me only been 18 also i just don't feel there is much chance

flower

22nd Feb 2006, 18:04

russ148,

The aptitude tests and interviews are there to look for people who may have the right aptitude to become ATCOs. They are not there looking for people already qualified as ATCOs.
Although the tests are far from perfect they are looking for that certain something which you either have or not, age doesn't reflect that. You may be 40 and useless and 16 and perfect.
No doubt if you have been reading through all the threads of late then you will see the starting salary through the college is low, there is a good chance therefore that the age of many applicants will be a lot younger than in the past.

There seems to be way to much worrying and panic from people going in to the tests, you can prepare yourself for interview and if you didn't you would have to question your desire to do the job but the aptitude tests are there to judge one thing and one thing only, do you have the aptitude to train to become an ATCO. Go in do the tests and take from it what you can. There are plenty who are young who pass, and a good number told to come back a year later.

To everyone here stop getting so stressed out by it, if you are stressed by tests you wont go very far in ATC.

Rozzy

22nd Feb 2006, 20:19

archiewood

22nd Feb 2006, 20:45

Hey, just wondering if anyone's at Novotel on the 28th? It's my final permitted attempt at the interview, I'm trying not to get too worked up! Just trying to remember as much as I can and to brush up my interview technique.

rikvanteinde

22nd Feb 2006, 22:56

Thank you for the voices of reason, i was told to look at these forums for some advice and what i saw made me panic abit, i was only going to revise for the motivation paper and the maths paper, as a level psychology explains aptititude tests as something that can't be revised for, and therefore I was safe in the knowledge that I could only do my best! After reading the threads I panicked because of all the talk of books and crazy revising, as im sure many others are. However I'm back to my confident self now and I'm pretty sure I'll be fine on the assessment, well, maybe the maths will shake me abit, but we'll see!

There are no math questions, just numerical problem solving. These are quite easy (some find them extremely difficult, but if you don't need a calculator to solve numerical problems with broken numbers [is that English??? I mean 1/2, 1/3, 4/5 etc...] you should be fine).

The easiest question is: 37 - ... = 26 A.9 [B.11] C.12 D.8
or: 25 ... 5 = 5 A.- B.+ [C./] D.X (not kidding)
It doesn get much harder than: 1/3 X ... = 1/6 X 24 [A.12] B.etc...
Consequently you may have to do 1 or 2 multiplications or tail divisions (again, is this English??? I'm Dutch, so sorry if it sounds stupid :O ) on paper.

Please correct me if I'm wrong! :ok:

Mingcole

23rd Feb 2006, 13:25

@ Standard Noise:

That questionaire is still there, but it's 248 questions now, did it last friday...

What is the final word on wages? When I get into college (thinking positivly...) what'll I be on?

Cheers, Matt

HI Dear

Where is the questionaire? I couldn't find it. :confused: :confused: I am new here and will have my one day test 1st March. Thanks!

MartinInTheMiddle

23rd Feb 2006, 16:42

I've asked about feedback - NATS says it will now give feedback to candidates following the Assessment Centre Day, which great if they really mean it. They don't give feedback from test days because it would be pretty pointless - a computer scores the papers and a yes/no answer comes out.

It's a case of "computer says no!" - if you ask for more info under data protection act they will probably give you the figures to back up the answer but it will still be a "no".

The personality questionnaire is not used, as far as I know, to make the decsion about calling people for interview.

725308

24th Feb 2006, 17:17

I have been following this thread with interest - I am only 15 and studying towards my GCSEs and am hopefully going to apply as soon as I am 18 to be a trainee ATCO with NATS.

I would like to ask 2 questions if I could about applying in the future - 2009 when I will be 18.

1. I would like to know whether the aptitude/selection tests will be the same or have the same tests as they do right now as in spatial, diagrammatic reasoning, numerical reasoning, checking, motivation papaer and personality questionnaire.

2. Will the College of Air Traffic Control still be next to Bournemouth Airport by 2009? I read somewhere on these forums that it would possibly move to Whiteley at the NATS technical and comms centre near to LACC, Swanwick - would this be before or after 2009?

Any answers will be most appreciated as I would like to start looking at the books recommended on here and preparing years in advance for the tests. A bit :8 I know!

Feel free to PM if you need.

Mingcole

25th Feb 2006, 14:31

Hi every one:

I want to ask are all these part of test on the day all multi choice or any of then needs write down the anwers, such as the question about the word document we had. Thanks!

261A

25th Feb 2006, 14:35

Are you allowed scrap paper to use for the numerical tests?

SilentHandover

25th Feb 2006, 15:07

All tests are multiple choice.

You are allowed scrap paper for all tests except Spatial Reasoning.

Angrel

26th Feb 2006, 22:14

Hi guys! just re-read the email NATS send out with a link to a pdf file about ATC. They say to read as most of the motivation paper qustions are on the detail. ( I didn't see this bit as I am an idiot! :O )
Tried copy and paste but the link wont work!! help!! anyone have a copy of this file? or can anyone tell me what sort of questions they ask? ive heard tell of things like QFE and QNH or what is an ILS,VOR,DME etc. that true?

Oh well. Here goes nothing!! If I fail, I will let you all know how working as a binman turns out!!!

cheers!:D

Aiguilleur du ciel

26th Feb 2006, 22:25

It is absolutely imperative to have learnt the NATS handout (http://natscareers.co.uk/docs/atc_intro_book1.pdf)before your interview, so get revising, no need to apply to be a trashman...:ok:

good luck BTW

Angrel

27th Feb 2006, 09:55

aig, ya a star! thats the link that just wasnt working on my comp but it now does! thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!:D :D :D :D

McLeod

27th Feb 2006, 11:24

Had my interview on Friday and have to say that there is nothing to get too worked up about. As someone said earlier on the board: there is no point getting worked up it will only hamper performance. In fact on the whole found it quite enjoyable compared to other interviews I have been on.

However I thought the computer test was solid and think that may have f:mad:d things up for me.

Could any one else who has taken it let me know if they got in after the feeling that they did crap on the comp test? I had a few collisions in the numbers thing and how are you meant to solve the questions at the same time?!

James123

28th Feb 2006, 15:09

Aiguilleur du ciel, is that handout the lastest one?? The one ive been given a few weeks ago is different.

BA Baracus

28th Feb 2006, 15:26

What stage of the application are you at like James123?

There are different booklets to learn before the aptitude test day and the interview test day (which you'll get a party invite to once you pass the aptitude tests). Could be a booklet from a different stage? Ring NATS and check.

"I aint gettin' on no plane"

James123

28th Feb 2006, 15:30

Im on the very first stage, aptitude test part

russ148

28th Feb 2006, 15:31

is the pdf link for the selection test part of the interview or the s?tage after? for teh selection tests it was a link to the word document

Kirk Biddlecombe

28th Feb 2006, 17:29

For the initial selection tests, you should have gotten a link to a word document.

Aiguilleur du ciel

28th Feb 2006, 17:32

Aiguilleur du ciel, is that handout the lastest one?? The one ive been given a few weeks ago is different.

To clarify this, the word (http://natscareers.co.uk/docs/test_materials.doc)doc is for the selection test

The pdf link is for the final interview stage, :ok:

loopyloulancs

28th Feb 2006, 20:46

hi everyone, ive been reading your stuff n you all seem to knowa lot about a lot! wondering if anyone can help. im in the process of filling in my nats form but not sure what theyre looking for in some of the sections. Alos how long do they take to get back to you???? oh one more! what are the regulations on reapplying if you get rejected?

Kirk Biddlecombe

28th Feb 2006, 20:58

'loopyloulancs'

Hi - I've recently applied too. NATS replied to my application the same afternoon I submitted it asking to attend the initial selection tests, which are at the end of March.

I shouldn't worry too much about the application. Of course make it good but don't spend too much time on it. I think the selection process of tests and interviews will really be the main factor deciding whether NATS will recruit us or not.

If you fail the initial selection tests, I understand you have to wait a year before you can reapply - so best to get it right the first time!

Hope this helps,

Kirk

loopyloulancs

28th Feb 2006, 21:09

thanks a lot, ill be back for more advice if i get through! good luck in march

Mingcole

1st Mar 2006, 15:15

:} just finished today's test. we got over 40 people on the test today. haven't seen any NATs ACT. Start from the fire alarm run off. fun!!!!
So....no more to say,,,,wait only!!!

ATCwannabee2006

1st Mar 2006, 16:59

Hey all,

Can anyone tell me please what kind of Maths questions I am liable to get asked? More worried about the maths questions than any of the others!!

Cheers!
John

Mingcole

2nd Mar 2006, 13:32

Math?????!!!!!!!!! really easy!

261A

3rd Mar 2006, 18:15

Is the diagrammatic reasoning test fairly straight forward with clear instructions and what is the time limit, question amount and pass rate. :O

JD8520

3rd Mar 2006, 21:45

Think I was at the same day as you Mingcole in London on Wednesday.

261A,
very straight forward, very clear, quite a few questions cant remember exactly but I do know as someone asked that hardly anyone finishes it so just try to answer them accurately as you can and get as many done as you can, time was about 18mins i think, all i remember is it went quick :)

All the best :ok:

Roni f

4th Mar 2006, 12:21

The math is just mental arithmatic if you know your times tables you will be fine just work out the problems as basic equations and you will finnish them all with time to spare to double check them. remember you do not need to work out the answer to the decimal all you need to do is have a rough idea what the answer should be as you are given 5 choices. eg if you were asked whats 101/5 you do not need to know its 20.2 you should know straight away its just over 20 and the 20.2 anwer will be staring you in the face. hope this helps:ok:

cheers

Mingcole

5th Mar 2006, 21:37

JD8520

5th Mar 2006, 22:58

Mingcole,
I felt pretty good about it thx, and you?

That personality questionnaire was the worst quite frankly it was blatantly obvious how many of the questions were repeats, particularly at the end of the day I was trying to stay awake :bored:

Not sure about the command/logic paper as I didn't come across any examples before the day but I answered the examples on the day correctly so fingers crossed I did understand it!!

Max 11 days to find out now (so they say) best of luck to you :ok:

Cheers
JD8520

Kirk Biddlecombe

6th Mar 2006, 22:40

Command/Logic paper?

What's this about...I thought there were 4 categories on the aptitude tests; Computer Checking, Numerical Reasoning, Diagramming & Spatial Reasoning.

Am I wrong?

Kirk

JD8520

6th Mar 2006, 23:19

Kirk,
the command/logic paper consisted of each question had a sequence of shapes, next to these were symbols which had a command attached which included: rotate, reverse, cancel next command etc. Unfortunately I dont have a link or book to refer you to as I said previously I only found out about it on the day!!

Cheers

Kirk Biddlecombe

7th Mar 2006, 08:01

Ah - Like diagramming then.

Thanks

Mingcole

7th Mar 2006, 13:27

Command/Logic paper?

What's this about...I thought there were 4 categories on the aptitude tests; Computer Checking, Numerical Reasoning, Diagramming & Spatial Reasoning.

Am I wrong?

Kirk

There were totally 7 test on the day i think. I started from 3D, math, logical, read numbers and letters ( should be the computer checking), afternoon i had personility (cross or tick), atc test, 248 personility test. some people left message here before. The test for graduate from SHL got most of the example of the test, but the example in the book are far too easy. you can read it to get some idea, but don't think that just the test.

Mingcole

7th Mar 2006, 13:31

JD8520

I feel not too bad, I wish i could finished each part of the test, but the 3D and the command I finished only 90% of the test, hope can pass.

All the best to you as well. Do wish we could know each other in the next round interview.

:) :)

Quincy M.E.

7th Mar 2006, 13:37

dont worry mingcole; you are not expected to complete all the questions. They are looking for a combination of speed and accuracy. I didnt finnish them all and I got in!

261A

8th Mar 2006, 17:28

JD8520

8th Mar 2006, 18:48

261A,
look at mingcoles post above.

DonDave

9th Mar 2006, 09:11

I emailed NATS regarding the initial selection tests and they say there are 7 tests one of which is computer test! :confused:
Can some one please list the 7 tests and what each involves, the time limit and how many marks to get through to next stage.
Is there no computer test at interview stage or has this changed too? Please help! ;)

I think regarding the computer tests they mean the new interview day which is the second test day. I recently passed the initial selection day and they now call the interview day an 'assessment centre' which is what they used to call the first days assessment. Confusing i know but i think when they mean computer tests they mean the second day, as for the 7 tests, i think they mean the two days as a whole as there are 4/5 tests on first day and 2 on the 2nd day (new motovation paper and computer tests).

As for the first day, its simple psychometric tests-they are easier than they look, just do quickly, you are not supposed to be able to finish them just do what can, i completely messed up teh boxes but still passed.

On another note, does anybody know anything of the new motivation paper on the second day? Is it the same type of questions as the fist day's motivation paper?

Also, the HR questions, are they the same 40 as they used to ask?

I know it sounds like i want to be spoon fed, but this will be my third, and obviously final interview for Nats ATCO, the previous two times i was, apparently very close. The problem i now have is that i'm curtailed by my experience of previous 2 interviews-its too easy to try concentrate on what was previously asked, and now the interviews have changed im worried about being caught out.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Mingcole

9th Mar 2006, 21:22

Just heard this afternoon, I pass the first round test. second one 3 weeks later. Any one know how many times of the test or interview will be? is the second one will be the final one?? Thanks!

JD8520

9th Mar 2006, 21:43

Hi Mingcole,
congratulations on passing stage 1 :ok: . I passed too :) woohoo! As I understand it if we pass this stage we just have to pass the medical and security check and were thro.

Best of luck next round

Cheers
JD8520

Quincy M.E.

10th Mar 2006, 09:00

Don Dave

Preparing for the second motivation paper is just like preparing for the first one. Just make sure you read everything they send (or link to) you.

Good luck!

Mingcole

12th Mar 2006, 16:13

Hi! JD8520

Well done too! When and where will be your next interview? My will be 29th March, same place! Good luck!

I do wonder was there anyone not pass the first test or how many passed the first test and how many Nats want?
Any idear about the computer test???

dbounford

12th Mar 2006, 17:57

I passed the 1st stage too, any of you guys arranging a visit to a centre anywhere? Need some contact details if anyone can help :ok:

Mingcole

12th Mar 2006, 18:31

upstairs!

Are you live at Stoke-on-trent? I moved out of there Sep 2004, used live at festivel park. When will be you interview?

JD8520

19th Mar 2006, 16:56

Hi Mingcole,

I'm going this thursday 23rd, good luck :ok:

If you look at the first thread in the 'got a nats interview' page u should see some info about the comp tests.

Regards JD8520

Mingcole

21st Mar 2006, 19:35

JD8520:

Good luck! let me know how you feel after!:) :ok:

JD8520

24th Mar 2006, 14:55

Hi Mingcole,

well what a day my mind has been fried with information overload :} I had to do the motivation paper, yet another personality questionaire, played a game, computer tests, and the interview.

There was nothing i wasnt expecting apart from the game which I wont say too much about as it will ruin the point of it but it is very straightforward.

There should only be about 6 of you although i had 5 as someone didnt come.

I was quite lucky as the 3 girls there work at the college as the pilots voice on the atc simulators!! and they talked about some of the things that might be asked and also said that NATS are mainly looking for area controllers at present unlikely to be many aerodrome jobs etc.

Last bit of advice is just enjoy it particularly as we had the game near the beginning of the day it was a bit of an ice breaker between us.

Best of luck :ok: