DUBLIN [Archive] - Page 3

akerosid

17th May 2010, 17:36

Folks, just going back to the AI story, I think we should not be too quick to dismiss it. Yes, the runway length is an issue, but with the proper will (and interest at govt level), it is a surmountable problem.

Sydney has a crosswind runway of 8,300' and from time to time, it is necessary to use this to accommodate long haul flights; while there are undoubtedly some capacity constraints, modern jet engines are mostly used with derated power, so at full welly (to use the technical term!), they can deliver a quite stupendous amount of power; remember that the 777-300ER has the most powerful jet engines ever built. Yes, AI would prefer a longer runway, BUT if other parts of the deal are satisfactory, they may be persuaded to wait for this - for example, agreeing to use DUB, subject to a commitment to build a 1,500' (or so) extension within an 18 month period.

I do take Ireland105's point about the poor planning (to put it mildly) in the past and yes, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that things could turn out as he suggests, but on the other hand, we're dealing with new realities here; the govt will be well aware - given the precarious state of our finances - of the need to develop new markets and I would hope/expect that they are pushing hard on this, at all necessary levels - Foreign Affairs, Transport and (if necessary) prime ministerial level.

Coincidentally, here's an article in today's Flight International:
Air India expects to take first 787 next March (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/05/15/342008/air-india-expects-to-take-first-787-next-march.html)

The airline is looking to downsize its 77W fleet and there are already a few takers; the 777 fleet is very new. The 787 fleet, deliveries of which are expected to start next March, would have no trouble operating from 10/28.

It's quite possible that the DAA is just blowing smoke and as Ireland105 suggests, they're creating a plausible illusion. However, let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

And we might still see these beauties flying into DUB ...

JetPhotos.Net Photo » VT-ALQ (CN: 36315) Air-India Boeing 777-337ER by John Fitzpatrick (http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6843382&nseq=2)

In one sense, it could be a win-win, because although the loss of this would be very disappointing, the reasons for it would be well known (i.e. the shortness of the runway) and could therefore act as a spur to act on this in a serious way.

Charlie Roy

17th May 2010, 22:38

Getting a bit carried away with myself here, but with Air India set to become a full Star Alliance next year and Aer Lingus rumoured to also possibly be one of the next in line for membership, this again would make Dublin an interesting option for Air India. That said, it would seem even more interesting to stay in Lufthansa-dominated Frankfurt, but I'm sure there are many strategic advantages and disadvantages to these wild rumours for all involved...

Minor detail: Air India aren't the most financially healthy airline, but granted, such airlines are few and far between.

dublindispatch

18th May 2010, 10:44

To be reasonable to all side on the will they wont they, it has to be said that there is no real hard proof one way or the other regarding Air India, but having said that, the probability of the DAA and Irish Government getting new long haul carriers to use the Dublin pre clearance and or T2 in the balance of all probibilites is, I would hazard to say rather high.

Now the debate is would it be Air India, I dont know but i would say that if not them it will be someone, and with the luck of the irish no doubt will be some aviation coup who ever they get!!

Sober Lark

18th May 2010, 11:47

US Preclearance - like Irish coffee in Shannon, soon everyone will have it so drumming up business on that basis would see very short lived results.

Ireland105

18th May 2010, 12:11

There only hope is another US major, but they are all bleeding heavily from the neck so its not likely. Its both fantastic and bizarre that Etihad have devoted 10 flights a week to Dublin, we can only hope this continues.

Sadly this has been a result of bad government policy that for the past 10 years has been very US centric when we should have been doing some serious relationship building with China, India, Pakistan, Brazil and Russia as well. We missed a tremendous opportunity there - other european nations such as the Netherlands, Germany and Scandinavian countries had their fingers on the pulse and devoted the time and effort to build relations with these countries. Its paying off for them. Ten years ago we from an aviation perspective we could have said they needed us more than we needed them. Now the tables have turned big time and we are essentially ******. The Americans now have a government that cares about american people - jobs for americans etc, and with the decline of the Irish presence in US politics (e.g. death of Ted Kennedy etc) its a bit of a no brainer where this will leave us. The days of calling up a senior diplomat of Irish decent looking for deals to be struck has long run out

dublindispatch

18th May 2010, 13:18

Not actually sure that the loads on the ETIHAD have came up to the expections of the route they had. Some flights only 50 or sixty and no carago?

Tom the Tenor

18th May 2010, 13:28

Imagine the coup Etihad could have by routing two of those ten flights via Cork. I would eat my eat if they could not pick up a hundred or so passengers at two flights a week and even via the capital city. Why is this not being sought by the marketeers at Cork or does it all come down to protecting dear ol' Dublin at all costs and let Cork go to hell? Certainly, if there are long haul A330s being despatched from Dublin with fifty passengers there is nothing to lose in trying a few flights via Cork. What an opportunity is being missed in not putting Cork on the long haul map.

Charlie Roy

18th May 2010, 13:45

Imagine the coup Etihad could have by routing two of those ten flights via Cork.

Aer Arann's Cork to Dublin flights code share with Ethiad flights... Maybe people just don't know that and/or the transfer times are impractical and/or they won't want to travel to their destinations and/or they have better alternatives when travelling to their destinations.

Just a spotter

18th May 2010, 13:59

Sadly this has been a result of bad government policy that for the past 10 years has been very US centric when we should have been doing some serious relationship building with China, India, Pakistan, Brazil and Russia as well.

It's actually worse than that.

One of the factors in keeping the DUB runway short was pressure from the SNN lobby. An artificially short DUB runway meant that there was one less reason to remove the SNN stop over; flights from DUB had to land at SNN if they were going to make it to the US.

With the arrival of the A330's in EI that became less of an issue, but the runway was still a limiting factor. AFAIK, Dublin has the shortest main runway of any main airport in any European capital.

Just one example of how "Parish Pump Politics" hamstrings national issues in Ireland.

JAS

Tom the Tenor

18th May 2010, 14:01

Okay, fair enough, attaching an EY trip number to an ex FR AT4 sure puts Cork on the long haul map. Now, where are my tablets!

fullrich

18th May 2010, 14:17

It's actually worse than that.

One of the factors in keeping the DUB runway short was pressure from the SNN lobby. An artificially short DUB runway meant that there was one less reason to remove the SNN stop over; flights from DUB had to land at SNN if they were going to make it to the US.

JAS

Complete nonsense spotter. "Parish Pump Politics" is right. When did anyone in SNN have the power to tell those in DUB what to do with their runways. There may have been many factors but I doubt very very much that this was one of them.

positive

18th May 2010, 14:46

Quote

Complete nonsense spotter. "Parish Pump Politics" is right. When did anyone in SNN have the power to tell those in DUB what to do with their runways. There may have been many factors but I doubt very very much that this was one of them.

I'm afraid its true I heard it from a former Aer Rianta manager who worked both Dublin+Shannon,Dublin had applied for a longer runway but was denied by the Government mainly due to pressure from the Shannon region at that time.

Sober Lark

18th May 2010, 14:48

Etihad claimed an average seat factor of 80% and that DUB was it's most successful launch. I thought the industry standard was average load factors? Spot figures of some flights having fifty or sixty are therefore of little value.

Dublin doesn't have to become an aerotropolis but it does need a runway, attractive carrier charges and competitive retail shopping.

dublindispatch

18th May 2010, 21:21

Low Loads Are The Norm Not High Loads On The Ey, They Doubt Themselves They Will Go Up To The 14 A Week As Suggested When The Upped To 10 A Week

johnnychips

19th May 2010, 00:56

Dublindispatch

What?

EI321

19th May 2010, 11:11

Emirates still looking at DUB:

Emirates eyeing Ireland flights launch - top exec - Travel & Hospitality - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/588550-emirates-eyeing-ireland-flights-launch---top-exec)

Ireland105

19th May 2010, 12:34

One can only hope - it would be a fantastic win for T2 and the DAA. But Emirates are great talkers - Flanagan himself admits that they have been looking at it and looking at it. There comes a time for action, and it didnt happen when Ireland was booming. Hard to see it when the nation is melting into the ground.

More concerning, he is also wrong about the "failure" of EI in Dubai. Contrary to many reports, the route was actually quite successful with average load factors in excess of 75%. The problem was 2 fold:

1. Absolutely no marketing in the UAE of the service - appauling management on EI's part

2. EI were in a dire state as of late 2007/early 2008 and a serious cut back was needed. So Dubai was axed. Not because the route was a failure, but because the airline was in the ****s generally.

Its scary when these guys dont know what they are talking about :rolleyes:

EI Premier

19th May 2010, 18:37

More concerning, he is also wrong about the "failure" of EI in Dubai. Contrary to many reports, the route was actually quite successful with average load factors in excess of 75%. The problem was 2 fold:

1. Absolutely no marketing in the UAE of the service - appauling management on EI's part

2. EI were in a dire state as of late 2007/early 2008 and a serious cut back was needed. So Dubai was axed. Not because the route was a failure, but because the airline was in the ****s generally.
I'm afraid the above is not entirely accurate.

If you look to 2008, we can see that Dermot Mannion was still in control. At the helm, he was obsessed with base expansion, borne out clearly by the front page of the 2008 Annual Report.

Associated with the issue of lackluster marketing, was the fact that a new aircraft, should have been assigned to the route on at least some occasions, especially for the launch flight..!

In addition, your second point is simply untrue and incorrect. Aer Lingus had an exceptional year to 30 December 2007 and to say anything otherwise is incorrect. They recorded double digit total revenue and Profit (BEPS) growth - €88.5 million! Profit before taxation was almost €125 million. H1, 2008 was also strong for the airline and it was spiralling oil prices thereafter that had a significant impact upon the overall profitability of the company, along with a commencement of a weakening in demand on TATL routes in Q4, 2008 - which accelerated across all routes during H1, 2009 and resulted in a lower fare base and sharply declining yields. Subsequent reductions in the cost base have only been necessary because of yields/revenue that weakened for at least eight subsequent quarters...

An Eastbound route to Dubai could have worked for Aer Lingus, the ''pilot'' at the helm was the problem. Now that a competitor has a foothold on the route, it would be hard to re-gain some of the lost market share, especially considering the overall macro environment.

EI Premier

Kavs8

19th May 2010, 20:24

I'd love if EK came to DUB it would be fantastic it would definitly work for them! i really do think that the problem with the EI - DXB route was that they have focussed to much on the American market , for e.g. when DXB was axed from DUB in 2008 the slots (-T-T-S-) where used to increase LAX to daily; only also to be axed in November 2008.

Emirates in Ireland (DUB) would be in the right direction!! :ok:

brianoh

19th May 2010, 21:31

Czech Airlines

Air Baltic RIX-DUB-JFK-DUB-RIX

Oman Air

Cyprus Airways LCA-DUB-YYZ-DUB-LCA

Air India Everywhere in India-DUB-The states

Singapore Airlines

Aeroflot

Manx2.com

Virgin Atlantic

Arik

Looking at this list, I think the most realistic are the Oman Air, Air Baltic and Cyprus Airways links.

Oman Air operate A330's on all high volume and long-haul routes and if they were interested in starting up US routes like the rest of their Gulf neighbours, these would probably not be deemed long range enough without a stopover somewhere like Dublin.

Air Baltic, well due to the amount of their nationals in Ireland and that they are likely to want to serve JFK with their 757-200's, again a stop is needed and they can pick up some extra PAX.

Cyprus Airways, a similar reason with trying to serve Toronto with a A330 from Larnaca, though should have the range with a plane like that. Not sure there's too much demand between Canada and Cyprus (especially if they don't serve anywhere in the US), but I could be wrong.

Can't see the rest happening, though maybe Aeroflot using Dublin as an A330 stopover for the likes of Havana or Los Angeles could still be runners, especially as they used to use Shannon as a stopover.

Air India though......the cancelled flights on the live departures at Dublin Airport are encouraging but Aer Lingus did once load Cairo and Bangkok into their system and nothing came of either.

EIPCW

20th May 2010, 21:18

The best we will get would be Manx2 Let410 going to GLO or some such low key route, but it would be nice to hope that some of the above mention Airlines might, just might maybe, someday soon call into Dublin??

DannyKelly22

20th May 2010, 23:11

Heard a romour today that AA is leaving DUB this winter. Apparently the staff were told today they were packing up for the winter. Don't know how true it is. Can't see it happening but if it did this would be good news for EI

EIPCW

21st May 2010, 19:13

No its fact in this case

DannyKelly22

23rd May 2010, 21:47

seems weird that AA have a press release on their website celebrating 5 years on DUB - ORD and they're (not officially) supposiidly cutting it for the winter and routing all traffic through EI to their LHR services. All winter flights direct from DUB - ORD have no been cut on amadus. must be true.

brianoh

23rd May 2010, 22:33

Anyone see this on the Dublin Airport arrivals site:

Ryanair FR297 24-05-2010 18:10
Abadan Europe Airpost ABR416J 24-05-2010 18:40
London - Lcy Air France AF5119 24-05-2010 18:45
Isn't Abadan in Iran? What would one of Europe Airpost's Passenger flights be doing going there from Dublin unless it's a similar flight to the Chad ones carrying Irish peacekeeping troops?

dublindispatch

24th May 2010, 11:08

Typo error should be ADB not ABD, Same thing happened couple of weeks ago.

Skipness One Echo

24th May 2010, 12:32

They had a press release celebrating the return of the "succesfully seasonal" GLA-ORD in the same week it was axed permanenetly. Left hand right hand etc alas

akerosid

24th May 2010, 16:46

"Typo error should be ADB not ABD, Same thing happened couple of weeks ago. "

ADB is Izmir - Adnan Menderes Airport.

"
Czech Airlines

Air Baltic RIX-DUB-JFK-DUB-RIX

Oman Air

Cyprus Airways LCA-DUB-YYZ-DUB-LCA

Air India Everywhere in India-DUB-The states

Singapore Airlines

Aeroflot

Manx2.com

Virgin Atlantic

Arik

Looking at this list, I think the most realistic are the Oman Air, Air Baltic and Cyprus Airways links. "

Wasn't LO supposed to be returning to DUB this year as well?

I can't see SQ coming in, which is a real pity; they did specifically mention DUB as a possibility, but of course, runway length obstructs us once again. Maybe they could be persuaded to do it via another European airport as they do from MAN (some go via MUC) until a rwy extension is constructed. That said, I can't think that SQ is very impressed by DUB, particularly as they also axed their cargo service. Some investment in that will be necessary also.

Can't see VS doing it, although they would have the right to and their new A330s would be ideal; they begin arriving next year.

Oman Air could be possible; they currently operate 330s (and by all accounts a VERY top drawer product!), but they have 787s on order.

-------------------------------------------

Realistically, until they get someone at government level who knows his a@@e from his elbow and has he interest, passion and drive to push people and get things moving (within the department as well as in other areas), you're not going to see change. The interest simply isn't there at govt level, as evidenced by the fact that ND was left in his job, despite having achieved less than any transport minister in recent times. I hate to say this, but what is needed is a minister who is feared - and you just can't see that happening anytime soon.

Sober Lark

24th May 2010, 20:59

irish laddie

24th May 2010, 21:27

Spotters dream on. None of the airlines mentioned could maximise fleet assignment and aircraft rotations with the range block constraints of a short runway. It just wouldn't add to profitability.

Now, see the bigger picture. What if we could entice someone like Ryanair into Dublin?

Thats hitting the nail on the head. While it may be pretty to have the odd shiny 777 from the gulf drift over the 28 threshold, you have to remember that the DAA is a business. Bring in AI and all you get is pretty pictures, a few ground handling jobs and a big queue at CBP...

Even a couple of extra based 738/320's helps keep everybody in the chain busy, whether it be the security guys, car park bus drivers, Boots, Easons, etc etc. A pax from Luton or Hahn should be viewed with just as much regard as a Long Haul pax from any of the above wish list airlines.

And as for the need for a larger runway, is it really a viable proposition when it is potentially an asset provided for lets say max 1000 pax per day, but paid for through higher fees by the other 40-50000 and no doubt further aggrieving the incumbent airlines in DUB.

Whats needed in this country is a complete new aviation strategy. The industry in this country is simply fallen on its face at the moment and the powers that be don't seem to appreciate the potential prizes that are right in front of them out in North Dublin already...

Just a spotter

24th May 2010, 23:18

I think that most of us mere spotters on the board, as interested observers, "get" the issues regarding the impact myopic government aviation strategy has had on all the airports around the country, not just DUB (and that's before you get into the vagaries of the Irish electoral system and how it handed power to a handful of politicians from the Limerick/Clare region and the SNN lobby) and how that affects the operational attractiveness of the airport.

Dismissing the DAA successfully attracting AI or any other airline to use the Customs/Border facility in DUB or SNN as daft just because it would do nothing more than give the impression of something tangible without any real benefits is to miss one fundamental truth of Irish governance and business management; too often the easy things are done here just to give the impression that things are being done, even if they have little or no real benefit. How many times do we see Irish politicians pointing to some small achievement and "hyping" it up as though it was some great herald of things to come (almost every new job announcement over the last 12 months has apparently signalled that we've turned a corner and the recession is over ... well if we're turning that many corners we're going around in circles!).

The politicians would be very interested in the media opportunities of an AI stop over as an indication of "links" with India or elsewhere, where as two, three or four new EI or FR routes, even if they may produce more jobs in and/or investment into the country don't have the same attractiveness for the politicos.

A longer runway is needed. It's key national infrastructure, like a motorway between two major cities, and so, the costs probably shouldn't be lumped entirely onto the airlines. FR will oppose it, because they have no interest in it, but then, with the wind in the right direction they can get their 738's off 34/16. If Ireland inc. wants to connect directly with the "emerging markets" of South America, or India and points east, then, IMHO, either 28 needs extending or 28R needs building.

JAS

irish laddie

24th May 2010, 23:46

The politicians would be very interested in the media opportunities of an AI stop over as an indication of "links" with India or elsewhere, where as two, three or four new EI or FR routes, even if they may produce more jobs in and/or investment into the country don't have the same attractiveness for the politicos.
A longer runway is needed. It's key national infrastructure, like a motorway between two major cities, and so, the costs probably shouldn't be lumped entirely onto the airlines. FR will oppose it, because they have no interest in it, but then, with the wind in the right direction they can get their 738's off 34/16. If Ireland inc. wants to connect directly with the "emerging markets" of South America, or India and points east, then, IMHO, either 28 needs extending or 28R needs building.

But relalistically there is never going to be the yields or arguably demand for thousands of seats every week nonstop from DUB to South America or points in Asia.
On Asia for instance, Ethiad offer most of whats needed on this market as it is. Meanwhile while the AI and emerging markets talk is going on, AA, a carrier operating happily from DUB (to the worlds largest economy) since 2005 seem to be heading for the door if earlier posts on this thread are to be believed...is it that a 757 is just not sexy enough to be saved??:E

Basically my point is that the DAA should just take the less glamorous option and go back to basics. There doesent need to be a total love in with RYR/EIN, but at least make noise that its where they see growth potential. When and if they ever get back to 24million pax per annum, then start broadening the net further afield.

chuboy

25th May 2010, 00:20

I still think DUB needs the longer runway. Are we really happy with one carrier monopolising the links to Asia and beyond?

Etihad has paved the way but I think healthy competition as well as the potential for direct links to Asia rather than stopping in Abu Dhabi are very attractive propositions for pax (customers of both airlines and DAA).

Not to mention the fact the USA is by no means the largest economy anymore, nor will it be in the future. If Ireland wants to keep that market intact, it had better hope to have strong links with China and India. I know that as a business person direct flight > stopover.

Ireland105

25th May 2010, 03:28

While Etihads presence in Dublin is much welcomed I cant see any single benefit in terms of a traveller wanting to fly to mainland asia so to speak in going through Abu Dhabi instead of the many other options through europe. Yes Etihad offer excellent service and good routings, but from an Asia perspective its "just another way" of getting there - and frankly as a regular traveler to asia I would not fancy flying for 7 hours and than stopping and than another 6 hours. Give me a 1 hour hop and than a long haul flight any day. Etihad wins in terms of traffic to Australia with the "just one stop". What is desparately needed is indeed direct flights to China, most likely and ideally Beijing. And there certainly is demand - in fact I would say they would be absolutely booked out based on a frequency of 4 flights a week with an A330 (CA/HA/EI). Runway length not an issue on a Beijing routing, its the nearest destination in asia to Ireland, and coincidentally probably the best option in terms of yields, numbers, traffic etc as well. Dont underestimate the numbers of people in Ireland flying to China. I believe even business class would be full to the brim as many more business's now are eyeing up China as a viable alternative for growth as things go to the ****s here.
...but im gulity of what I was earlier complaining about....its most likely a dream. Cheap and nasty government gets you a cheap and nasty result. Do you see Cowan and Coughlan discussing these issues over tea ? Neither do I ! Id say both of them are busy picking themselves up off the floor after a hard nights boozing.

akerosid

25th May 2010, 04:15

"Spotters dream on".

Let's not bandy around the word "Spotters" too freely; sure, we're all aviation enthusiasts, but it's all too easy for people in authority to dismiss certain opinions simply because they come from "spotters"!

Apparently, Pat Kenny had an interview on his show (which will be carried on to next week, due to a lack of time) about DUB and it mentioned runway issues; the guy he was talking to - Eoghan Corry - apparently suggested that the AI deal and EK might be out the window due to runway length. This will be discussed next week, so no doubt the DAA will be listening with some trepidation. Probably ND and the Dept of Transport too, if they can summon up the interest.

We can go on debating (and it's not much of a debate because most of us seem to agree!) the runway issue, but really it's going to take the splash of cold water in losing AI (a link to one of the world's fastest growing economies) to shake people into action. I would hate to see DUB lose AI if it's really a serious possibility, but if it means that we finally start to take seriously the requirements of long haul air traffic, then so be it.

Remember the terminal issue; can you recall how the need for change was identified and acted upon? Was it the initiative on the govt's part? Was it hell! No, it was a growing clamour of people calling for it and it may have to be like this again. If the interest isn't there, then it will need to be "encouraged".

Ireland105

25th May 2010, 10:27

Akerosid - agree with you except for one thing. Raising the issue even in a widely viewed public forum wont necessarily spur anyone into action, even if the so called AI deal is lost and the light is finally shed on the reason for it.

dublinaviator

25th May 2010, 15:08

Skipness One Echo

25th May 2010, 15:24

Can you all step back a minute and realise that you're getting excited about a possible hub, with AIR INDIA. The airlines that often arrives a day late and then changes schedules at a moments notice. The same AIR INDIA that is pimping it's new fleet of B777s to any airline that might take them off their hands?

The solution to Dublin's growth strategy isn't going to be an international superhub from one of the world's least reliable carriers. Read the thread on the Air India Express accident if you doubt that.

Does the Irish economy have enough cash to splurge out on extending the main runway at DUB and get payback within a generation? Given that the gransiose expansion of the terminal may be a while getting paid off, it seems madness. I know you have to speculate to accumulate but for the love of God, AIR INDIA !?!?!? In the current climate, no one in their right mind will, or ought to back this with their own money. Which leaves the taxpayer of course(!)

irish laddie

25th May 2010, 15:50

irish laddie no offence, but its that kind of short-term thinking thats held back so much of Ireland's infrastructure. Your arguement that a longer runway can't be justified because it would only attract 1,000 new PAX a week but would have to be paid for by the other 40-50k PAX is ridiculous. Going by that logic, why even bother expanding any of the country's transport infrastructure?

I'm not sure if its short term thinking or common sense. Lets just say I built a new house with a huge mortgage but I'm now struggling to find tenants, I'm not going to spend more on sticking a conservatory on the back! By all means when they can demonstrate that their core business is back on track then start looking at runway extensions, but to do it at the current time is just imprudent in my view. If it went ahead it will just probably lead to higher fees with the resulting backlash from current operators. So you might have your Indian transiting 777, but at the expense of more based aircraft and thousands of short haul pax daily.

Dublin Airport has the potential with this new terminal and CBP facility to become a big European hub for connections, but that will never happen unless the current runway is extended. If anything we'd actually lose more money by not extending it given how much has been invested in the new terminal which will always be held back from reaching it's full capacity, and therefore giving a return on the government's investment, by the runway restrictions.

The new terminal could be used to somewhere approaching capacity if the current operators are suitably approached.

Does the Irish economy have enough cash to splurge out on extending the main runway at DUB and get payback within a generation? Given that the gransiose expansion of the terminal may be a while getting paid off, it seems madness. I know you have to speculate to accumulate but for the love of God, AIR INDIA !?!?!? In the current climate, no one in their right mind will, or ought to back this with their own money. Which leaves the taxpayer of course(!)

Exactly:ok:

Tom the Tenor

25th May 2010, 16:02

Dublin needs a longer runway? Cork needs a longer runway too, then! Lagos once or twice a week in the summer a banker and I am not taking the P!55! Istanbul twice a week if not Dubai or Abu Dhabi to connect to the Far East.

The short runway issues all come back to the smoking gun - Shannon and the political patronage it enjoyed for decades from various political administrations. What wreckage that has caused - we are still seeing it today and everyday. As for Dublin's new terminal? More prison space is needed and T2 would come in handy!

blaggerman

25th May 2010, 18:40

Dublin Airport has the potential with this new terminal and CBP facility to become a big European hub for connectionsPlease kindly explain what advantage this new CBP facility offers to a hub operation.

Seljuk22

25th May 2010, 19:02

Traffic down by 32% in April to 1.190 Mln passengers.
Almost 1.2 million passengers travelled through Dublin Airport in April (http://www.dublinairport.com/at-airport/latest-news/250510_aprilfigures.html)

840

25th May 2010, 20:31

Tom -> There are still a depressingly large number of issues when it comes to aviation infrastructure in Ireland. However, Dublin getting a second, longer runway is probably the number 1 that needs to be addressed. After that, an extension to Cork's existing runway, with parallel taxiways and more apron space is probably next. While both airports have had welcome new terminals, the airfield facilities have not kept pace. Unfortunately, for as long as we treat aviation as something where a minister can announce a small upgrade for the local airport and buy a few votes as opposed to something where we have a national strategy, that will always be the way.

Seljuk22 -> Considering the number of flights cancelled because of volcanic ash, that doesn't sound the worst. Maybe a drop of just under 10% if we factor that out.

Ireland105

26th May 2010, 04:27

"Given that the gransiose expansion of the terminal may be a while getting paid off, it seems madness. I know you have to speculate to accumulate but for the love of God, AIR INDIA !?!?!? "

My god, have you ever heard the phrase "dont bite the hand that feeds you" ? Ireland is on its knees at the moment and this will not change in the short term. We need anything we can get. ANYTHING. Would a 3rd world african country refuse AI ? not a chance. Should we ? NO.

Ireland needs to keenly wake up and realise that it is not in a position to piss about, it must take anything that comes its way. The country is an absolute mess, another Greece on its way in this "2nd recession" that is receiving much publicity in countries outside of europe only of course !

Sober Lark

26th May 2010, 10:35

In 89 they built 10/28 short and they'd have done the same with 10L/28R - it wasn't future proofed either.

Its only one topical example but it illustrates clearly the trouble bad airport management can get you into. It is as if they don't seem to realise the components of a development strategy are all interrelated - even down to getting on with O'Leary.

Looking at DUB it is obvious that management cannot be following any business oriented strategy. Forever playing catch up. Forever DAA.

positive

26th May 2010, 11:28

The Aer Rianta company had plans many years ago to extend the existing runway by I think either 300 or 400 Mts at the terminal end the details were on their summer timetable I can't remember what year it was.

This project got shelved when talk of the new runway started,I'm not sure how it might fit in now with T2 and a proposed Pier F also in the current plans.

The Fingal master plan had protection for extending the runway at both ends,there is close to 980 meters between the end of the runway and the roadway at the opposite end to the terminal so it might make more sense to look at that end if they do decide to extend the present runway.

dublinaviator

26th May 2010, 15:01

Please kindly explain what advantage this new CBP facility offers to a hub operation.

You can go through US CBP in Dublin, saving you the hassle of having to do it in America where queues can often leave you standing for an hour. Something Aer Lingus and other airlines can use to attract new connecting traffic through Dublin.

I'm not sure if its short term thinking or common sense. Lets just say I built a new house with a huge mortgage but I'm now struggling to find tenants, I'm not going to spend more on sticking a conservatory on the back! By all means when they can demonstrate that their core business is back on track then start looking at runway extensions, but to do it at the current time is just imprudent in my view. If it went ahead it will just probably lead to higher fees with the resulting backlash from current operators. So you might have your Indian transiting 777, but at the expense of more based aircraft and thousands of short haul pax daily.

Thats a fair enough point, but you could also argue you don't build roads with the assumption you'll get your investment back, so why build runways with that logic? Infrastructure itself isn't something that makes any money, its just something that facilitates the trade of third party operators. Look at rail for example, we're pumping billions into new rail infrastructure and it'll be decades before and if it ever gives a return on the government's investment, but that new infrastructure is allowing Iarnród Éireann to expand and allowing more people to use rail. Take the DART and LUAS as examples, they still haven't paid for themselves, but the new infrastructure has allowed them to increase their passenger throughput and turn a profit. Getting back to aviation, look at what the Spanish are doing as well, they're guaranteeing zero charges on airlines if they can sustain 2007 traffic levels, something AENA can't directly afford, and which is the only reason why Ryanair has expanded so much into Spain. But indirectly it brings in more money because airlines expand, which brings in more tourism, which gives a boost to the economy.

The new terminal could be used to somewhere approaching capacity if the current operators are suitably approached.

I agree current carriers should be approached with more favourable terms like what Spain has done, but I don't think you can/should rely solely on Aer Lingus and Ryanair doubling their capacity through Dublin(as you suggest), particularly when Ryanair refuses to use T2 and would still refuse to use it if the DAA dropped charges altogether. The DAA needs to attract new carriers, and the CBP is something that again could be a huge advantage in being able to attract new long-haul carriers, but the runway length problem outweights any advantages CBP brings.

blaggerman

27th May 2010, 07:06

dublindispatch

27th May 2010, 12:06

Typical Irish solution to an Irish peoblem, build a state of the art airport with all the bells an whistles and forget to build a runway that can handle modren airliners and the routes to go with them. Well done Ireland PLC.

Just for you areosexuals reading this and saves me time wikkiing the question, what ranking in Europe is Dublin in terms of runway length visa vee the size aircraft using it?

Would be so cynical to say that dark forces in an unnamed airline whose a/c are painted various shades of green may have "got to" various transport ministers over the years regarding the runway status?.

Sober Lark

27th May 2010, 15:13

When they looked at 10/28 they didn't look at new markets they looked at the markets they currently served and tried to anticipate the future level of demand using the same aircraft type.

Unfortunately they only looked at 10/28 in terms of capacity. They found it was similar to Gatwick and Stansted but regrettably they didn't even consider aircraft type or requirements regarding length to open up new markets.

They nearly got a new parallel runway out of it so how could extending 10/28 have ever really been on the cards?

dublinaviator

28th May 2010, 16:48

You can go through US CBP in Dublin, saving you the hassle of having to do it in America where queues can often leave you standing for an hour. Something Aer Lingus and other airlines can use to attract new connecting traffic through Dublin.My question was about the new facility. I can't see how having customs adds any benefits to the connecting passenger or carrier. In fact it adds hassle, since bags can't simply be transferred but need to be taken to CBP for clearance.

What are you not getting? Using CBP in Dublin saves you TIME, and to any business passenger, time is money, and to any leisure passenger its about convenience. Like I said theres times where you can be standing in a queue for an hour in JFK, saving 45mins by using CBP in Dublin can only be a plus.

blaggerman

28th May 2010, 19:29

What are you not getting? Using CBP in Dublin saves you TIME, and to any business passenger, time is money, and to any leisure passenger its about convenience. Like I said theres times where you can be standing in a queue for an hour in JFK, saving 45mins by using CBP in Dublin can only be a plus. Immigration preclearance saves time. Customs preclearance saves no time (it will actually add at least an hour to the min connection time in DUB) unless the passenger is connecting to another flight in the US. I can't imagine too many passengers connecting in DUB and again in the US.

akerosid

28th May 2010, 20:03

AF to end all-cargo services:

Le Figaro - Sociétés : Air France prépare l'abandon de l'avion-cargo (http://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2010/05/28/04015-20100528ARTFIG00619-air-france-prepare-l-abandon-de-l-avion-cargo.php)

This means an end to AF's current weekly service through DUB, now operated by a 744F. The route was operated by AF's 772LRFs for a short time, although only two were ever delivered and these are soon to return to the lessor, no doubt joining the other three at Fedex:

JetPhotos.Net Photo » F-GUOC (CN: 32966) Air France Cargo Boeing 777-F28 by John Fitzpatrick (http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6545146&nseq=43)

On the subject of cargo, this is an area which the DAA never seems to have much of an interest in and given that exports will - as with the previous recession - lead the economic recovery, it would seem that there should be some investment by the DAA in air cargo facilities. Not a cent of the $1b of DAA's capital spending plan has gone into this. If the DAA has no interest, surely a tender could be put out for other operators to open a facility at DUB. I understand that the DAA has set aside some land for a future cargo facility.

If this could be sold to a new operator, perhaps the proceeds could be used to extend 10/28? With traffic volumes falling, the economic case for a second runway has been undermined (although there will ultimately be a need for this), but a longer runway would be of particular interest to cargo operators.

EIPCW

28th May 2010, 20:19

And thats another carrier gone!

EI Premier

28th May 2010, 22:16

On the subject of cargo, this is an area which the DAA never seems to have much of an interest in and given that exports will - as with the previous recession - lead the economic recovery, it would seem that there should be some investment by the DAA in air cargo facilities. Very much agree with your sentiments on this point Akerosid - the folly of Irish government policy in failing to provide any assistance at all to the airlines after the recent ash crisis highlights the complete lack of respect for the hugely important role that the airlines play in underpinning and supporting Irish exports, both on a tangible and commercial basis.

However, we also need to remember that only a very small percentage or proportion of annual exports are carried by air traffic out of the country. Any main form of durables are taken over land and subsequently via ferry. That may be one of the reasons that the DAA don't show a huge interest in this regard. Perishables and perishable pharmaceutical products are the main products that are exported via air, with some other less common exceptions also.

However, as you say, airlines are vitally important to the Irish export economy.

Regards,

EI Premier

dublinaviator

28th May 2010, 23:29

Immigration preclearance saves time. Customs preclearance saves no time (it will actually add at least an hour to the min connection time in DUB) unless the passenger is connecting to another flight in the US. I can't imagine too many passengers connecting in DUB and again in the US.

I read a review from someone on the first BA flight between London City and New Nork via Shannon, and they said it knocked off 15 minutes from the usual Heathrow-JFK trip. The fact that the government went out of their way in arranging so many meetings with US senators and representatives to come to an agreement on CBP speaks for itself. As thick as our government is, why would they spend millions on putting full CBP in place for Dublin and Shannon if it has no benefits and adds at least an hour onto the journey as you claim? Sorry but what you're saying makes no sense...

blaggerman

29th May 2010, 08:38

I read a review from someone on the first BA flight between London City and New Nork via Shannon, and they said it knocked off 15 minutes from the usual Heathrow-JFK trip.
I think the comparison was from an office in The City to JFK, and included time needed to get to/through LHR.
As thick as our government is, why would they spend millions on putting full CBP in place for Dublin and Shannon if it has no benefits and adds at least an hour onto the journey as you claim?It has benefits for passengers starting their journey in DUB and connecting onwards in the US. But you mentioned markting DUB as a hub. My comment was about the impact on connecting passengers: having customs (and immigration) at a midpoint in a journey means a connection in DUB will take longer than connecting elsewhere, so it offers nothing to a potential hub operator. And it costs passengers an extra tenner.

dublindispatch

29th May 2010, 11:20

Singapore, TNT/KLM A300 service, Shriener A300, Fedex ATR services etc etc etc etc all gone and now AF 747, mind you the last hardly a no brainer as they only operated one way and that was east bound.

But as other posters have pointed out a lot goes by road, problem with DUB is that it mainly caters for Air Freight in cargo and not Air Produce, a slight but important difference as in none of the "flown in fresh" kinda goods. Maybe this is a market that should be looked at.

Or maybe we should just accept that the Government know **** all about airports and transportation and are just scared of the EI/FR team?

Kavs8

30th May 2010, 17:44

Dublin Airport woos Air India | Irish Examiner (http://www.examiner.ie/business/dublin-airport-woos-air-india-121014.html)

Fingers crossed :ok:

Cyrano

31st May 2010, 08:54

But you mentioned markting DUB as a hub. My comment was about the impact on connecting passengers: having customs (and immigration) at a midpoint in a journey means a connection in DUB will take longer than connecting elsewhere, so it offers nothing to a potential hub operator. And it costs passengers an extra tenner.

Plus remember: if passengers connecting through DUB en route to the US clear US customs in Dublin, then the transatlantic sector is effectively domestic, meaning the airline can't sell duty-free products. That's a significant loss of ancillary revenue for the airline. (Of course they can still sell perfume and model planes and the like, but not the booze and cigarettes where the big duty-free profits are to be made.)

I have spent up to an hour queueing for immigration in the US when I've arrived behind a couple of other full aircraft, so as a point-to-point traveller, the immigration preclearance is undeniably attractive. However I've never queued for more than a few seconds for Customs (the bloke collecting your white form as you walk out of the hall with your luggage) - it's a fallacy to suggest that the customs bit of the preclearance is intended as a timesaver. What it does do is allow a transatlantic flight to land at a US domestic airport (ie one without its own customs facilities). That's potentially interesting for bizjets (but this is a limited market). It could also allow transatlantic flights to use the domestic terminals of the big US hubs rather than the international terminals (but again, this is a niche). I confess I don't see a huge demand for this.

C.

CallBell

31st May 2010, 10:18

Of course they can still sell perfume and model planes and the like, but not the booze and cigarettes where the big duty-free profits are to be made.)

AFAIK no inflight sales of any kind whether Duty Free or Perfumes etc will be allowed. The customs form is for listing all purchases being brought into the USA, not just Duty Free alcohol and cigarettes. But DF sales will be allowed on the flights FROM the US, so they won't quite disappear.

I confess I don't see a huge demand for this

There is a big demand for connecting flights in ORD and JFK. It would be of huge convenience for EI passengers of they were able to walk of their EI flight and straight to the gate of their next flight within the same terminal. Likewise CO in EWR and DL in ATL/JFK.

Noxegon

31st May 2010, 11:32

Do you seriously think that'll be allowed by the TSA? I'm betting that passengers wanting to do that will still have to be rescreened by airport security...

Kavs8

31st May 2010, 22:52

^^I agree

Shannon is the exception....

whereas the early morning M-W-F-S / SNN-DUB flight can connect to all DUB transatlantic services that day e.g. walk to the next gate!

Seljuk22

1st Jun 2010, 17:18

AI flights from its 'European Hub' in FRA to USA this winter are no longer bookable.

dublinaviator

2nd Jun 2010, 13:52

Sure we knew they were leaving FRA, what we don't know is where they're going...

dublindispatch

2nd Jun 2010, 21:35

Oh how the celtc tiger has become the scavanger, snifing around the aviation bins of europe for any scraps of business it can find. I think a few years ago the daa would have laughed in the face of AI and told them were to go and hub there flights.

Its almost funny if it wasnt so so so so sad the way everyone is playing the Air India begging bowl game.

Come on are we really that stupid to suspect that the only best hope for the future lies in a few AI flights day with a handfull of passengers getting on or off in Dublin?

If the truth is that that is all we can expect, it really is a sad reflection Ireland PLC, the daa sales and marketing team and the aviation industry as a whole in ireland

Ringwayman

2nd Jun 2010, 22:29

looks like they're not bothering with one-stoppers to the States. Change in strategy? (http://www.livemint.com/2010/05/31211831/Air-India-to-revamp-overseas-o.html?h=B)

Ireland105

3rd Jun 2010, 01:25

...."I think a few years ago the daa would have laughed in the face of AI and told them were to go and hub there flights"....

I really dont think so. They would never have even consider the shoddy, laughable Irish.

..."Its almost funny if it wasnt so so so so sad the way everyone is playing the Air India begging bowl game"...

I wonder who is begging, the DAA is desparate, but perhaps sadest of all things is that they are not in negotiations with AI, because AI is so far out of their league. The real con is that the DAA and government are using this as a PR stunt. So you see, AI are actually way up there in the heavens out of our reach. Was does that say about Ireland Inc.

..."Come on are we really that stupid to suspect that the only best hope for the future lies in a few AI flights day with a handfull of passengers getting on or off in Dublin?..."

See my comments above. In fact if that was "all" we could rely on that would be mindblowingly fantastic for the DAA. But they cant even get that. The best they can do is pretend they are in the bidding process and use their contacts in the Irish Times/ Indepedent to drum up publicity about it, which is why we have seen a couple of vaguely written articles recently

..."If the truth is that that is all we can expect, it really is a sad reflection Ireland PLC, the daa sales and marketing team and the aviation industry as a whole in ireland..."

All we can expect ? Its a dream outcome for crappy little Ireland. We are in the same league as the baltic nations. Would they turn down the national carrier of India ? Its time people woke up - at best we are a lower 2nd rate nation.

Sales and Marketing dept ? Apart from sitting around all day doing f@#k all, Id say the only thing they have done is tip off their contacts in the main stay media publications in Ireland that AI are leaving Frankfurt and moving operations to another European destination and ask them to run a column that we are in the ring as contenders for AI even though we are not. That helps keep their jobs safe as well, creates an illusion that they actually work.

Ireland105

3rd Jun 2010, 01:34

Maybe the saddest thing of all is that 90% of Irish people cant see it for what it is and are so easily fooled all the time...:ugh:

Just a spotter

3rd Jun 2010, 09:45

Following the departure of SR Technics from Dublin, some good news on the maintenance jobs front.

Eirtech Aviation are to expand beyond Shannon

71 new aircraft maintenance jobs at Dublin Airport (http://www.jobsclub.ie/index.php/breaking-news/139-71-aircraft-maintenance-jobs-to-be-created-as-shannon-based-firm-expands-at-dublin)

JAS

dublindispatch

5th Jun 2010, 20:16

Lets pick a new airline to theorise about?

Will throw that that one out there......

Ireland105

6th Jun 2010, 05:15

I think the penny has finally dropped on the Irish forum over on airliners.net about the Air India dream. Incredibly, now some chap under the psuedo name "Kaitak" is now theorising that AI might start flying in 787's from MAA, BLR and HYD. Honest to god, where will it all end. A big pie in the sky theory about secondary cities and the great opportunities of pre clearance here lol. Id say he works for the DAA and realises that people have woken up to the original AI idea as being non sense, so lets now excrete more rumours.

....well said dublindispatch.....how about Air Zimbabwae or Air Koryo ? - they could clear US customs here. And the EU ban is no longer in place on Air Koryo - could be good. We could send the DAA out on a fact finding mission lol (its about as sensible as whats being mentioned on airliners.net at the moment). :ugh:

akerosid

6th Jun 2010, 10:37

This thread seems to be more and more caustic by the day; not just spraying acid, but revelling in it.

For a start, I don't buy this idea of the DAA spreading a rumour about reeling in AI, if it didn't think it had a dog's chance. Runway length aside, why shouldn't the DAA throw its hat in the ring? The runway length is something that can be sorted out. AI is taking 787s from next March and they would be ideal for long, thin routes. India is a country of 1b people and its middle class is increasing dramatically; it is a strongly growing economy and its demand for air travel will increase.

What would we be saying here if the DAA simply said, "why bother?"

If you've ever been to one of the major Indian airports, DEL or BOM, you'd know that domestic-international (or vice versa) connections are neither easy nor efficient. An alternative, en route hub - preferably on the great circle route, has its advantages. FRA is too expensive and too slot controlled. Sure, there are probably better airports than DUB, but DUB has its own advantages as well.

Now, we can sneer and revel in it, or we can try and be a little more constructive. Which is going to be? Of those who choose to sneer, when is the last time you've proposed a constructive option. What would you choose to do?

I have nothing to do with the DAA and I haven't stood back from criticising if I thought it was deserved, but the constant, dripping negativity achieves nothing. If I want to read something acidic and negative, I'll go to Politics.ie, but as people who know something about aviation, we should try and be a little more constructive here.

eireoflot82

6th Jun 2010, 12:20

but negativity is the default setting for irish people, where would liveline or the dunphy show be without it!
re AI how much extra security would be needed at dub if this happens?

Ireland105

6th Jun 2010, 14:46

Maybe they should just get on with it, roll up their sleaves and work on winning quality business into the country rather than focusing on "getting it out there" into the public domain that they are actually doing something - I dont see fair criticism as sneering frankly.

I wish I was wrong akerosid, I really do, but at the end of the day its not right to hype up the AI thing up if its not going to happen. Thats plain wrong in my book.

dublindispatch

7th Jun 2010, 11:49

Whats the deal with the no a/c allowed to park around the E-pier? I heard that the wrong kind of concrete on the ramp was used and will need to be replaced? Surely to god that cannot be the real reason!!!!!

Stevek

7th Jun 2010, 18:03

Plenty of aircraft have been parked around Pier E. Its a daily event.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4348604484_39784ff670.jpg

dublindispatch

8th Jun 2010, 11:18

Not any more, the DAA have "closed" the E-pier. No A/c parking around it, hence my previous question....Why?

vkid

8th Jun 2010, 11:56

Is this to do with the pyrite issue used in some concrete in Dublin. about 100k house affected during the boom and also parts of the m3 motorway.

Think i read an article in some paper last week about it being used in some part of the airport but can't find it now. Could be wrong on that

some details on the pyrite issue here.

Pyrite and housing via the M3 motorway – The Story (http://thestory.ie/2010/06/04/pyrite-and-housing-via-the-m3-motorway/)

dublindispatch

9th Jun 2010, 12:39

Ah the old pyrite in the concrete story!! that would explain whats going on alrite!! I wud say thats the October opening buggered

brianoh

9th Jun 2010, 18:49

Anyone else hear that Cyprus Airways have taken up the DAA's route incentive scheme and are coming to Dublin this year?

A scheduled service to Larnaca is a step in the right direction though I can't see there being too much demand in winter...

Kavs8

9th Jun 2010, 21:42

From Cyprus Air website

Launch routes to Kiev and Dublin
* New era in relations U - CTO

With several new flights which will enhance existing services and will also launch new routes, and this year opened their wings Cyprus Airways. New plans of the Company and the flight schedule, as discussed last year formed a very constructive meeting, the Executive Chairman of Cyprus Airways, Mr Kikis Lazarides, who was accompanied by the Commercial Director Chris Love, chairman of CTO Mr. Alekos Orountioti and other executives of the Agency.

During the meeting, which took place at the CTO offices in Nicosia and discussed in a fertile climate of ways to upgrade cooperation Cyprus Airways and CTO in order to best serve the tourist industry. In this context, the Executive Chairman of Cyprus Airways announced the company's decision to launch the 2010 flights to Kiev and Dublin. Also informed him of the decision by Cyprus Airways to further strengthen this year the frequency of flights to Beirut with seven additional flights per week (total 14 compared to seven at present) route in Tel Aviv with two additional flights (9 flights week seven) and an increase of one flight route to Moscow (from three to four). Even briefed Orountioti intention of the Company to increase the frequency of flights to Brussels with five flights a week compared with two flights today.

The President expressed his appreciation CTO and welcomed the decisions of Cyprus Airways. While the company promised all possible support to enable them to establish new routes and increase the tourist flow from these markets.

Mr. Lazaridis his part thanked the President and the present at the meeting of managers of the CTO. Also stressed the need for closer cooperation between the two organizations and assured that they will be paid by the Company endeavors to ensure that the objectives were to succeed.

Just a spotter

9th Jun 2010, 22:17

The Dublin Airport Authority (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Dublin+Airport+Authority+plc) (DAA) has argued that a 40pc hike in passenger charges set before Christmas by the Aviation Regulator isn't high enough to allow it to operate in a "sustainable and financially viable manner".Dublin airport authority says 40pc hike in fees 'not enough' - Irish, Business - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dublin-airport-authority-says-40pc-hike-in-fees-not-enough-2212376.html)

Interesting this bit ... (emphasis added)

Documents released yesterday by the Commission for Aviation Regulation (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Commission+for+Aviation+Regulation) (CAR) that detail the recent findings of an Aviation Appeals Panel, reveal that the DAA maintained that the new charges would not raise its funds from operation-to-debt ratio to an investment-grade ratio until 2012. Maybe they're considering issuing more bonds to raise capital in the future.
Dublin Airport Authority announces successful ?600 million benchmark Eurobond issue (http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/media-centre/press-releases/030708.html)
Or they could develop a business model that attracts more aircraft and passengers to improve their ratio, rather than just running a mediocre shopping centre with air links.
JAS

dublindispatch

10th Jun 2010, 02:31

Cyprus Airways, well well well, thats a curve ball no one saw, mind you did Helios not do that in the past, Couls do very very well depenidng on connex ex LCA

840

10th Jun 2010, 08:08

If done properly, it has potential.

Cyprus Airways offers a number of Middle Eastern connections that aren't offered direct from Dublin.

Also, there are no direct transatlantic connections from Cyprus. Unfortunately, CY have no codeshare agreements with any of the airlines operating transatlantic from Dublin.

Kavs8

10th Jun 2010, 14:05

Im delighted about Cyprus Airways decision to serve Dublin it was something that always buggered me! just a quick comparsion also....

Cyprus -> Population: 870,000 (2010 Est) -> No services from ROI.
Malta -> Population: 414,000 (2008 Est) -> 3 weekly services FR, DUB.

Difference: 456,000 (Cyprus)

The route could work quite a lot of Cypriots in Cork & Dublin. I have been informed that the route is not happening and that the DAA have had no talks with Cyprus Airways, 2011 could be on the cards but AS OF YET the DAA has to talk to Cyprus Airways.

Ireland105

10th Jun 2010, 14:14

I know I will be heckled, but just being honest about it. Its hardly much of a win. Its like telling me Monarch or Britania or Thompson will be coming to Dublin. Cyprus is already very well served with charters from Dublin and as a country doesnt exactly have much going for it except beaches and low class british thugs.

In fairness - it is something for Dublin, which must be applauded and credit given where it is due in this case. But its not that much really, nothing big at all. Lets keep it in perspective.

dublindispatch

10th Jun 2010, 14:14

Now guys lets not get all Air India here!! Have thay expressed an intrest in operating to DUB or have they officially announced they have?

Not wanting to put a dampner on it but Eurocypria (UI) who are owned by Cyprus Airways already operate into dublin as charter flights, and CY have announced that they intend to merge UI and CY so unfortunatly all that may be the case is a swop of airlines all be it a Scheduled flight and all that that envolves for a Charter flight ?

I really would doubt that the market could sustane all the IT flights from DUB and a scheduled flight even during the Summer. A winter scheduled service on the other hand would do rather well.

Kavs8

10th Jun 2010, 14:18

Im not over-speculating, I do believe Air India could come to Dublin if the Government woke-up to the oppertunity! Cyprus Airways have released their 2010/2011 winter schedule no Dublin! maybe 2011 from Dublin-Larnaca but not this year.

Ireland105

10th Jun 2010, 14:19

Nothing of credibility on the internet about frequencies or indeed concrete specifics yet. I think its more chit chat to be honest.

Ireland105

10th Jun 2010, 14:29

Its a bit like saying United / Thai etc... operate into Dublin already isnt it dublindispatch ? - as in they offer code share arrangements ! This is really scraping the bottom of the barrell stuff. It reminds me of the scene in the movie "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" where "the Ugly" is scraping into the grave with his own two hands grunting. What next ! :D

Tom the Tenor

10th Jun 2010, 15:12

Ireland105, the Dunphy of Irish aviation!

Kavs8

10th Jun 2010, 16:48

Well all this speculation arrives at nothing once again! as i said there was no DAA meeting or arangements with Cyprus Airways! This basically confirms that: Hopes dashed for Dublin flights - Cyprus Mail (http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/hopes-dashed-dublin-flights/20100428)

Stevek

10th Jun 2010, 21:29

Even worse... I'm so happy that he left for the UK. His dream country.

On the Pier E front I hear its something to do with the air bridges.

RE72

10th Jun 2010, 22:15

Kavs8 ... That article is old (28th April) , It clearly states no flights in 2010

The CY article is more recent, referring to 2011

Kavs8

11th Jun 2010, 15:49

Kavs8 ... That article is old (28th April) , It clearly states no flights in 2010

The CY article is more recent, referring to 2011

I published the article to PPrune which was released on their website 9 February 2010, that article was from 28th April you point was......

dublindispatch

15th Jun 2010, 13:43

more likely to see Eurocypria just operate a year round charter.

EC-ILS

15th Jun 2010, 23:39

No chance of a year round UI service, its seasonal enough as it is, it doesnt even run the full length of the summer season.

I think only hope os year round LCA service is if FR head that way.

Ireland105

16th Jun 2010, 09:03

I think the Air Koryo option is more realistic - DAA take note. This would be a nice site at T2. They could also sell memorabilia near the gate :ok:

Photos: Ilyushin Il-62M Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Koryo/Ilyushin-Il-62M/1601044/L/&sid=d23c9482c0a9dabf6ace30d02a46d0ec)

dublindispatch

16th Jun 2010, 11:37

UI did operate year round service DUB-LCA-LXR several years ago, even a weekly flight may just suite the market.

If we adopt the ah sure let ryanair run it we will be in a duopoly in Dublin with only Aer Fungus and MOL screw-u-for-everycent-Airways left. An option that really unless you work for them is not much of an option.

Anyway. have we all registered on the DAA website to be pretend passengers for testing T2, and we all get a DAA goodie bag.

dublindispatch

17th Jun 2010, 10:41

Whats with all the Polar Air Cargo flights showing on the DAA website Arrivals and Departures screens??

Ireland105

17th Jun 2010, 11:33

Ah sure why not, it looks good !

dublindispatch

17th Jun 2010, 12:57

Not really the answer I was looking for!!! But indeed why not

Stevek

17th Jun 2010, 22:15

Another pointless Ireland105 post. :ok: Keep up the good work.

Ireland105

18th Jun 2010, 01:41

Thanks Stevek, I will do. But can anyone therefore answer why the DAA keep loading in bogus information day after day after day - is it to "beef it up" ??

thebig C

18th Jun 2010, 09:22

Is there actually any concrete news regarding "new arrivals", apart from CSA and Cyprus?

I have to say, I would be very dubious. I have seen no confirmation of any kind from even semi legitimate sources. In fact the only people who were certain the Air India/Emirates developments would go ahead were some posters over on Politics.ie.........but some of those guys also told me that Aer Lingus would be using A320s trans-Atlantic to cuts costs:) .......And then started to quote wikipedia range figures for the A320 when I told they that wouldn't happen:)

As an aside, there are some great shots of the interior of T2 here!:

Dublin Airport Terminal 2 U/C (15m) - Page 3 - SkyscraperCity (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=968016&page=3)

Looks pretty good! And, even if its an empty white elephant, it will be great to use an airport in Dublin thats not as crowded as Hong Kongs main market!

dublinaviator

18th Jun 2010, 16:15

Is there actually any concrete news regarding "new arrivals", apart from CSA and Cyprus?

I have to say, I would be very dubious. I have seen no confirmation of any kind from even semi legitimate sources. In fact the only people who were certain the Air India/Emirates developments would go ahead were some posters over on Politics.ie.........but some of those guys also told me that Aer Lingus would be using A320s trans-Atlantic to cuts costshttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif .......And then started to quote wikipedia range figures for the A320 when I told they that wouldn't happenhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

Sure what would those idiots know about aviation... They're nothing but a shower of wannabe analysts who like you say, look up wikipedia and think they know it all. I've been on that forum and the guys on there talking about transport haven't a clue.

Just a spotter

18th Jun 2010, 17:25

Todays Irish Times (18th June 2010) carried a story, almost a foot note, that Etihad are to set up their own line maintenance at DUB.

Article has an interesting comment on the view of profit vs load factor.

One more thing - The Irish Times - Fri, Jun 18, 2010 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0618/1224272791391.html)

JAS

dublindispatch

21st Jun 2010, 13:28

Kavs8

21st Jun 2010, 19:59

Have we all gone onto the daa website and registered to be dummy passengers for the tests of the new terminal. You get a DAA goodie bag.... cant wait, bet its full of good ideas and sugestion cards for what airlines we would like to see using it!!

Hahahahahaahah :D Or maybe the new novel released by the DAA ''How to begin tourism suicide''

Bout time the DAA rang the Gov tld them remove the ATT! then they reduce their charges say by 50% and let the airlines role in (Ryanair :ok:) and they'l soon swing back into profit, once the economy gets behind it!

Kavs8

21st Jun 2010, 23:10

Why is it that people on here think the €10 tourist tax is to blame for the downturn in the industry...? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

Well in about 2007, Ryanair (which then flew five times daily between Dublin-Manchester) charged €9.99 one-way & then the 10.00 att = €19.99 do you get their point...

johnnychips

21st Jun 2010, 23:40

Has anybody got tourist visitor numbers to Dublin over the last few years?

Ryanair opened the city to a great many people who would not have thought of visiting it before, including myself. Dublin is a great city, with friendly people and fantastic sights, but very expensive. It's certainly the only place I've bought 'duty free' wine in Britain to take abroad. And this was before the £ collapsed against the €. Ryanair's cheap fares mitigated the other expenses a little.

I suspect a lot of tourists have adopted a 'been there, done that, drunk the Guinness" attitude and sought cheaper destinations since. Aer Lingus is struggling to fill a small plane from Donny, when certainly in the early Ryanair years it was almost full.

I might be wrong, but if anyone's got the tourist figures...

Sober Lark

22nd Jun 2010, 06:59

Although I agree with you on hidden charges ASFKAP you'll find aviation pays remarkably little tax compared to other sectors of the economy. The Govt 'tourist' tax is very small compared to favorable tax on say aviation fuel, VAT etc. The tourist tax reduces other forms of tax but cannot be blamed for a fall in travelling numbers. In all honesty when any airline reports a fall in PAX numbers occuring what they are really saying is we got our forecasts wrong. But it sounds better if they blame something else.

Papa2Charlie

22nd Jun 2010, 07:01

Thank you ASFKAP. Those are all the points I wanted to make when I read Kavs8 post. I'd still like to see the tax removed but I don't think it is the complete answer to Ireland's tourism problems.

Were the tax to be removed, I doubt we'd see the Ryanair total charge each sector fall by €10. Perhaps they'd find another way to levy another €5 or €10 charge and then blame their customers travelling habits???

All the best,

P2C.

potkettleblack

22nd Jun 2010, 09:18

According to Tourism Ireland 40% of Irelands inward tourists are from the UK. The US accounts for something like 15% or so. However, the US account for approximately 25% of the total spend in country.

Putting aside the worldwide recession, the Euro has been strong against both the greenback and Sterling over the past 2-3 years. Its only in the past 6 months or so where it has lost ground. The poms are a fickle bunch as well. They are happy to travel when they are getting 2:1 and the like for their money but don't like it much when sterling is weak.

This isn't about a 10 quid tourist charge. Its about currency issues, rip off Ireland, a worldwide recession and the fact that there are better tourist options out there that Ireland has to compete with.

840

22nd Jun 2010, 11:10

The €10 charge certainly isn't helping though.

An airline will try to get as much out of a passenger as they are willing to pay for a flight, so in terms of airline revenues that means that they get €10 less per passeneger.

In terms of Aer Lingus, it reduces their profitability by €45 million. Even more for Ryanair, but at least Ryanair have stronger operations outside Ireland.

In terms of effect on passenger numbers, think of it this way. Imagine a route that has been planned to have a breakeven at an average fare of €145 per passenger return with a load of 75%. That route achieves its load and a an average fare of €150 per passenger. It's profitable. Now factor in the €10 tax. If you try to get the average fare up to €160, the load will drop and if that drop is more than 3%, the route loses money. If you charge €150, you get €140 net; the route loses money.

And there are a lot of routes out there that are that marginal.

So, basically, the charge is killing marginal routes.

Not only that, it has a worse effect on inbound tourism rather than outbound. Irish people are generally going to pay up for an overseas holiday and as the charge effects everywhere, they'll pay it. But if you're British, French, German etc., you have a choice of destinations. Many will decide against Ireland.

dublindispatch

22nd Jun 2010, 11:28

Ref the above post i would suggest that you cannot deny that FR may infact have the cheapest air fares as MOL will tell you BUT and its a massive BUT, they are not the cheapest way to travel in many cases, if you take into account the extra charges and distance that some airports he operates are from your final destination.

Ireland105

23rd Jun 2010, 03:18

dublindispatch

23rd Jun 2010, 12:18

Im surpriesd MOL does not try and market LDY as BFS (north) or even BHD as Drogheda or sum mad cap notion. I remember years ago when BY operated from LTN to BFS the fight they had at the time with the powers that be in BFS for the airport screens to show as LONDON LUTON rather than just LUTON. Oh how times change

EC-ILS

23rd Jun 2010, 17:29

Why would FR advertise LDY as Belfast North when they already fly to BHD an airport closer to Belfast than BFS?

cuthere

23rd Jun 2010, 18:13

Perhaps BHD could be Derry East.

840

23rd Jun 2010, 22:57

Or with huge imagination on the ground transportation, he could go for London (Derry)...

dymonaz

24th Jun 2010, 00:07

Oslo Torp springs to mind - a financial nightmare travelling from the airport to the centre of Oslo. If memory serves me correct about 20-25 euro each way on the bus ?? SAS may even work out cheaper than this

In all fairness... as if transportation from the "real" airports is free. Seriously, 10eu from Linate/Malpensa or 10eu from Bergamo - couldn't care less. Same story for pretty much every other place. The only airport that does save you money on "city centre" travel is LCY :)

dublindispatch

24th Jun 2010, 00:39

and BHD over BFS

Ireland105

24th Jun 2010, 03:07

I recall ordering a cup of coffee in the city and it cost around 10 euro after doing the conversions. I had my head in my hands until the coffee arrived and made sure to enjoy it, every last drip !!! Shockingly expensive city.

Sober Lark

24th Jun 2010, 06:29

Ireland 105 - the head in your hands bit is called suffering from the effects of exchange rate uncertainty. At times some accountants love it, and when they don't love it they hate it.

See T2 now recruiting 500 staff?

Noxegon

24th Jun 2010, 07:26

That's particularly brave given that Aer Lingus are saying they won't move there if it's more expensive than T1...

dublindispatch

4th Jul 2010, 11:38

I dont want to get all Air India again in here but anyone heard anything of Emirates sniffing around Dublin at the moment??

dublinamg

5th Jul 2010, 13:15

Flew from Dublin a couple of weeks ago for the first time in a while. The airside of the terminal is much improved. It is great that they now have a nice outside terrace/smoking area. I went outside for a smoke after checking but it was great to be able to have another one after getting through security. Alot of staff there too.

Do any other airports have any similar facilities for smokers?

yeo valley

5th Jul 2010, 13:19

same thing in brs with smoking after security.

Noxegon

5th Jul 2010, 15:08

The best terraced area like that which I've seen is at GRO.

Kavs8

6th Jul 2010, 14:20

hi guys just booked a flights for me and my brother for a day trip to Manchester goes like this....

DEP ORK 07:30 - FR9842
ARR DUB 08:20

DEP DUB 09:30 - EI204
ARR MAN 10:25

DEP MAN 16:20 - EI727
ARR ORK 17:35

I havent done my check-in for either flights yet but just wondering (i will be doing this) when i check-in for both FR9842 & EI204 can i just proceed (no luggage at all with us) to the departure gate for EI?? much appreciated..

840

6th Jul 2010, 15:48

If you've checked in online for the Aer Lingus flight, do the following

Follow signs for the baggage hall
When you reach the baggage hall, follow signs for connecting flights (up a flight of stairs at one end of the baggage hall). Do not proceed into the arrivals area
At the top of the stairs, you'll have to pass through security again, but you'll be at the front of the queue
Proceed to the gate

The only exception is if both flights arrive and depart from pier A, in which case you'll be able to walk from gate to gate.

If you haven't checked in online, you'll have to go to the check-in area.

You might want to be aware that pier D is quite a trek from the baggage hall.

Charlie Roy

6th Jul 2010, 15:50

I havent done my check-in for either flights yet but just wondering (i will be doing this) when i check-in for both FR9842 & EI204 can i just proceed (no luggage at all with us) to the departure gate for EI?? much appreciated..

When you arrive in the baggage hall you do not exit into arrivals, instead you follow the sign "Transfer / Connections". This takes you up a stairs, down a corridor, around a corner and you find youself at the security screening area where you effectively get to skip the queue of people reaching the security screening area via the departures hall.

Kavs8

6th Jul 2010, 17:20

You might want to be aware that pier D is quite a trek from the baggage hall.

Does the Cork flight disembark at Pier A then? thanks for the help guys do you think ive allowed enough time for the DUB-MAN flight??

Thanks much appreciated.

840

7th Jul 2010, 08:43

For one reason or another, my triangles routes have tended to be the other way around, with a departure to Cork from Dublin. In general, the Cork flight has used pier A, but I wouldn't guarantee it.

If your flight is on time or has a delay of up to 25 minutes, you'll be OK. As it's the first flight of the day, I wouldn't worry unduly.

dublindispatch

10th Jul 2010, 11:03

Gosh its all gone very quiet in here!! NO EI or MOL bashing, no Air India's on the way, no DAA could not run a cake stand at a church car boot sale!

It can only mean on thing....... all the ills of Dublin International Airport are now sorted and we can move forward knowing our futures are all secure no matter what airline (btw i dont work for one), or service provider we work for.

I hearty hurah from me!!

dublindispatch

14th Jul 2010, 12:00

Why no cat fights???? Surely everyone is not happy!!!!!!!

jiffajaffa

14th Jul 2010, 12:07

I fly to DUB from ORK all the time the ORK flight now uses Pier D in the last 6 months ive only used Pier A twice.

JJ

flightplantrack

16th Jul 2010, 11:40

looks like decision made and DUB not involved??
Air India says it will shift some of its international flights from its Frankfurt connecting hub to Delhi’s Indira Gandhi International Airport.
The service will start fully functioning by year-end 2011, once the airline’s domestic and international operations are fully integrated.
Air India (AI) will also start operating to new nonstop destinations — Melbourne, Toronto and Chicago — while resuming services to Seoul with the winter schedule. Paris and Tokyo are expected to become dailies.
With the planned increases, AI will operate 143 international services offering about 33,000 seats per week in each direction on routes from Delhi, up from 22,500 seats.
Domestically, AI’s operations from Delhi are being further strengthened to 47 domestic destinations with increased frequencies, as well as nonstop and direct services. Domestic flights are planned to increase to 71 from 62, with capacity rising to 10,200 seats per day in each direction from 8,600.
Seats offered by AI on all its services from Delhi will increase to about 104,000 from 82,000 per week in each direction, up 25%.
For the past year, the carrier used Frankfurt to connect its flights with Europe and the U.S.; however, this proved to be expensive, Chairman and Managing Director Arvind Jadhav told Aviation Week a few months ago.
AI used a code-share agreement with its soon-to-be Star Alliance partner Lufthansa to give its passengers convenient connections to destinations in Germany, other points in Europe and the U.S via Frankfurt. At Frankfurt, a passenger flying from Delhi to Newark was transferred to the Mumbai-Newark flight, and a person traveling to Chicago from Mumbai changed to the Delhi-Chicago flight. AI will continue to run some flights to Frankfurt, but all flights connecting to the U.S. and some to Europe via Frankfurt will become direct from Delhi, which just opened a new Terminal 3 at the Delhi airport.
The hub decision will give Air India an opportunity for a makeover, Jadhav says. “This is part of our turnover plan. We expect long-term benefits of 15-20%.”
“The inauguration of T3 was a moment of pride ... for its national carrier, Air India. The airline is currently in the middle of implementing its turnaround plan, which aims at repositioning a fundamentally different carrier while also connecting maximum passengers through nonstop and one-stop routes to destinations on its network,” adds Jadhav

dublindispatch

16th Jul 2010, 23:59

Well thats that then!!! Next stupid rumour please!!! Im all for Manx2.com operating LET410 to JFK

Ireland105

17th Jul 2010, 13:45

Exactly. Frankly I think some of those guys on the Irish forum on airliners.net have a lot to answer for, spewing rumours and counter rumours all the time. I have no doubt that some wise crack on there will now say that AI could also use Dublin for the occasional flight to the US or some ****e like that now that they will leave Frankfurt. I would get on and tell them myself but feel agrieved that I would have to pay for the pleasure. Really though, its a big DAA spin job over there on airliners.net Irish forum.

And dont get me started on the pre clearance gimmick, its a cheap one trick poney as far as im concerned - it might save you 10 mins total time on a good day.

Alright guys - how about Air Koryo to LAX via Dublin ? The IL62 has the legs for it....

Guest 112233

17th Jul 2010, 14:43

IL62 to LAX from DUB Yeah ! - You just see the fairy's leaving their pots of gold at the end of the rainbow to catch the jettisoned JATO bottles after each T/O.

Its about as likely as AI operating transatlantic services through a hub at BHX. Come to think of it, the main RWY's are of broadly similar length. (OK I guess the TORA's at DUB are longer and less obstructed than BHX, with DUB at near sea level too). - I'm off to invent my JATO Bottle catcher.

CAT III

dublindispatch

17th Jul 2010, 17:24

No i still think the Manx2.com IOM-DUB-SXL-KEF-YYZ-EWR-JFK-ORD-LAX is a defo.

Just a spotter

22nd Jul 2010, 17:07

Irish Government to include the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) (incl. Cork (CAA) & Shannon (SAA)) as well as Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) in review of potential State assets for sale

Review Group on State Assets and Liabilities - Department of Finance - Government of Ireland (http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6396)

JAS

akerosid

22nd Jul 2010, 17:22

Looks like they are looking to sell off pretty well everything!

Personally I think they'll move on to some of our less productive counties after this, after maybe renaming them for sponsorship ("Emiratesligo", "Etihadonegal"?).

Jamie2k9

23rd Jul 2010, 00:10

Air India's new european base will be decided by end of Augest.

They are in talks with:

DUBLIN
BIRMINGHAM
MADRID

T2 arrives with a lot of baggage - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 23, 2010 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0723/1224275294834.html)Air

Airbus321-200

23rd Jul 2010, 00:15

I think BHX will give us a run for our money. We have the edge with the customs clearance but BHX has a bigger catchment area. We shall see. I thought this issue was laid to rest... looks like its only just beginning! :)

Ireland105

23rd Jul 2010, 04:26

The whole gag just doesnt add up. Currently BHX and DUB runway length just cant cut it (BHX runway is about 30-40m shorter than 28/10 in Dublin). There would have to be significant weight limitations on AI flights operating into and out of BHX and DUB. That doesnt wash with an International carrier performing regular commercial flights, critical to its operations. As I said before, they just wont accept that. As a slight aside, if anyone has witnesses Indians travelling they often seem to turn up at the airport with the kitchen sink and all and sundry, not exactly know for hand luggage only ! So it just doesnt add up.....something smells here. So based on this logic its a one horse race for Madrid.

Now the good people of the UK have their lights switched on and are currently extending the runway to 3,150m - however this is not due until 2012. At least they have started the ball rolling. Rest assured, the stupid Irish (I am Irish before anyway starts throwing fits) wont follow their lead. The politics is too complex and dirty in Ireland with the last emphasis on commercial viability and connectivity. Some bishop and farmer have called that Shannon must be protected at all costs even if it means 99% of us suffer as a result. So the politicians follow suit like drugged zombies, unable to display leadership or basic balls.

:rolleyes:

akerosid

23rd Jul 2010, 05:13

Don't forget that EK regularly uses (i.e. twice daily) BHX for flights to DXB; slightly shorter I realise, but I've been assured by a friend at EK that DUB's runway length would not be limiting for their ops; true, DUB-DEL/BOM is slightly longer, but still doable from 10/28. Don't forget also that not all flights would be 77W operated; 787s would probably be more common - and they'd have no problem using 28.

As to MAD having an advantage, don't forget that routing via MAD would be considerably longer, given the great circle route.

I agree that the runway should be extended, but whether the DAA is willing to do this, I don't know; basically, if they are serious in wanting AI, it needs to be part of the deal.

Ireland105

23rd Jul 2010, 07:35

Agreed on the B787, but carriers will always go with the limit criteria, as in whats the largest equipment that will serve the airport and therefore can this equipment meet the needs of a full service. The B773 is capable to the ME - Etihad did it during the ash cloud from DUB to AUH presumably on a once off. Weather that was load limited I dont know, in fairness I doubt it was as that would kind of defeat the purpose.

Im guessing if a runway extension was approved in the morning it would take at least 4 years to complete knowing the various qangos and hoops that would have to be jumped through. 2013/2014 is of little interest to AI, they would need it before. Perhaps that would even rule BHX out ?

dublindispatch

23rd Jul 2010, 11:06

Please guys I thing we have flooged the AI story to death. In August we will find out but please give it up. Lets just put that bone aside and move on, or at least pick another carrier to rumanate over.

One for you, from a well placed source who heard it from a high ranking official, that an existing carrier in DUB is to extend its new freighter operation to include DUB from the winter flying programme.

Droghwings

23rd Jul 2010, 11:32

Oh please do tell who will possibly be operating this new cargo service??!!

Kavs8

23rd Jul 2010, 11:51

Good to see SAS expanding at Dublin too... SAS up early to pursue 'serious potential' here - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 23, 2010 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0723/1224275294871.html)

Jamie2k9

23rd Jul 2010, 11:53

SCANDINAVIAN AIRLINE (SAS) is considering expanding its services from Dublin airport this winter. They have added two extra flights between DUBLIN - Stockholm. They are also considering adding an early morning service to Copenhagen so an a/c will stay overnight in Dublin to serve the route six times a week.

SAS want to promote Copenhagen as a hub for Eastren Europe and Aisan flights.

Although Dublin, Brussels and Manchester are looking for the business SAS feel the DAA will support them on this expanction.

SAS up early to pursue 'serious potential' here - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 23, 2010 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0723/1224275294871.html)

Jamie2k9

23rd Jul 2010, 17:23

Bangkok-Suvarnabhumi, Beijing Capital, Tokyo-Narita, , Kiev-Boryspil, Moscow-Sheremetyevo (during winter), Athens (during winter) etc.

Just a spotter

23rd Jul 2010, 19:47

According to The Irish Times, the new US CBP facility in T2 will have an interesting feature;

The facility includes a detention cell for anyone who falls foul of the immigration process and needs to be incarcerated.T2 arrives with a lot of baggage - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 23, 2010 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0723/1224275294834.html)

JAS

akerosid

23rd Jul 2010, 21:32

I'm presuming that the airline planning to operate the cargo route is Etihad, which has recently taken delivery of its first A332F? Cargo on these flights is apparently v. good; it was a big moneyspinner for EI when it had the DXB route.

Good to see SK expanding in DUB; presumably the new flights will be operated by CRJ-900s?

Jamie2k9

23rd Jul 2010, 21:48

It is be McDonnell Douglas MD-82 (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_MD-80), Boeing 737-600 (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Boeing_737_Next_Generation#737-600) or Boeing 737-800 (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Boeing_737_Next_Generation#737-800).

All these a/c are used on all SAS DUB routes.

All flights to Copenhagen are done by a MD-82.

If the increase happons I hope Ryanair won't open a base in Copenhagen as three airlines operating DUB - Copenhagen wont work. The other being Norwegian Air Shuttle

wanna_be_there

23rd Jul 2010, 22:07

I think DUB will get this flight.

I cant speak for BRU, but MAN already has a flight to CPH at 10:15, and CPH is twice daily. DUB is once daily with an 18:00 dep to CPH.
Unless they jiggle the 10:15 dep at MAN to a bit later, and make MAN 3 daily, it wouldnt work otherwise.
Those are the only 3 airports in the running, so like I say, my bets are on DUB.

As for EY cargo, how restricted would their B773 be? I know they have already used it at DUB, but Im not sure if any restrictions were in place. Could their B773 not be used on the route to suppliment cargo also, as its the main reason MAN was upped to the B773 and not receive the frequency increase like DUB.

Jamie2k9

23rd Jul 2010, 22:23

SAS have double daily flights 6 times a week to Copenhagen

MON - Fri & Sun - 2 daily (mid morning and evening)
SAT - 1 daily (mid morning)

Norwegian Air shuffle have 3 weekly also

IJM

23rd Jul 2010, 23:08

Norwegian Air shuffle have 3 weekly also

Do they allow dancing on the plane?

(Apologies Jamie2k9 - I'll get my coat!)

Ireland105

24th Jul 2010, 04:38

Glad to see SAS increase its presence in Ireland. I last flew them in 2003 - they were a quality airline than. I imagine things have changed a bit since than. Copenhagen and Stockholm are good transit points esp on flights to asia and allow for quick and easy transition to the next boarding gates due to the relatively small size of the airports.Whats deeply disappointing though is that their website is a total joke. You cant book flights from Ireland to any of their transit points - an error message just pops up asking you to give them a call ! They really are a good ten years behind the rest. I believe Lufthansa is very poor in that respect too. Really makes you wonder how they can stay in business. They really need to get their act together.

Kavs8

25th Jul 2010, 18:50

Anybody no how T2 is coming along i mean is all structural work completed now? and just fitting/Testing out continuing?

Jamie2k9

25th Jul 2010, 19:20

Most of the work is done. Construction started (20 July) on the brifge between T1 & T2.

Trails runs began in July and will run in August, September and October. (details on DAA website)

dublinaviator

28th Jul 2010, 15:50

Aer Arann is to axe it's Dublin and Belfast flights from Cork from the end of August - Aer Arann to cut Cork-Dublin and Cork-Belfast services | BreakingNews.ie (http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/aer-arann-to-cut-cork-dublin-and-cork-belfast-services-467174.html)

Hard to imagine that only a few years ago, Aer Arann were going at least 6x daily on the ORK-DUB route.

Noxegon

28th Jul 2010, 17:34

On the Dublin run at least it's impossible for them to compete with Ryanair's fares.

Kavs8

28th Jul 2010, 18:01

Hard to imagine that only a few years ago, Aer Arann were going at least 6x daily on the ORK-DUB route.

dont suppose anyone remembers the 7 reason RE offer, ''7 daily flights Cork to Dublin, ''30 mins check-in'' etc...

So silly of them as we all know that have of the mainline RE a/c are parked up at DUB all day only to return to the PSO routes.

dublindispatch

28th Jul 2010, 22:07

Does that mean they have to give back a portion of the PSO money? Also leases the door open for Manx2.com or FlyMaybe to do the ORK-BHD run maybe?

sawtooth

28th Jul 2010, 22:19

No there's no PSO on for Cork route.

Kavs8

28th Jul 2010, 22:31

No i never said that i mean that like from August RE planes will serve PSO routes (exception IOM)

ryan2000

28th Jul 2010, 23:30

So Aer Arann have finally thrown in the towel on Cork Dublin. Reducing Cork Dublin to just one flight per day earlier this year was a joke. A business route requires a frequency that allows for a day return at the very least.

HON

29th Jul 2010, 09:10

I think you will now see Ryanair reduce and then eventually cancel their service DUB-ORK too - they were ony running it at such low fares to get Aer Arann off the service - proberbly selling the seats below cost (i.e. 0 Fare). Does running a 738 between DUB and ORK really make sense?

potkettleblack

29th Jul 2010, 09:13

Depends if MOL has anywhere else to fly the aircraft in the first place. Also to a certain degree it is better to keep it flying generating some level of revenue than parking it. Will depend on what sort of yields he can stand versus the finance costs on it just sitting around.

dublindispatch

29th Jul 2010, 11:26

I guess not really wanting to be anti-avaition, but im guessing being realistic DUB-ORK was more political than economic as a route. With the road and rail improvements it was eventually going to go, i wonder how long the other internal routes will now last?

ryan2000

29th Jul 2010, 11:46

They won't last kissing time if the PSO's run out.

dublindispatch

29th Jul 2010, 14:20

So not long then til they get the chop or down graded to smaller operators a/c etc

Jamie2k9

29th Jul 2010, 17:15

Dublin Airport charges to be reduced marginally as airport failed to meet two of 13 quality of service targets set out by the regulator.

RTÉ Business: DAA fails two of 13 quality measures (http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0729/daa.html)

You never know Ryanair may reverse the cuts.

Just a spotter

29th Jul 2010, 19:49

I would think Ryanair will wait and see if the current government decide to sell the State "asset" that is the DAA before deciding their near term strategy at DUB.

Michael O'Leary International Airport, Dublin anyone? Is the airport code 'LEO' allocated yet?

:}

JAS

EC-ILS

14th Aug 2010, 16:18

Anyone know anything about the BD handling contract? Hearing rumours that BD may go to SHP to be with LH? Would be a big blow to Servisair!

Jamie2k9

14th Aug 2010, 16:38

Malev Airlines are now going back year round with 6 weekly flights to Budapest so that may help the blow. On the other had Start 1 Airlines are going back year round with 2 weekly flights to Vilnius and they use Sky Handling.

Also American Airlines are going seasonal so another blow for serviair

dublinaviator

14th Aug 2010, 17:17

I would think Ryanair will wait and see if the current government decide to sell the State "asset" that is the DAA before deciding their near term strategy at DUB.

AFAIK the DAA, the IAA, nor the government's stake in Aer Lingus will be included in the state assets review.

TSR2

14th Aug 2010, 18:10

AFAIK the DAA, the IAA, nor the government's stake in Aer Lingus will be included in the state assets review

What a pity. I was rather looking forward to DUB airport being renamed to ' Dublin Leo Hairy Camel World Airport'. Got a nice ring to it.

Jamie2k9

14th Aug 2010, 19:10

The DAA (including ORK and SNN) are in the state assets review.

Irish government set to sell off state assets | Irish News | IrishCentral (http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-government-set-to-sell-off-state-assets-99090489.html)

It would be better for the DAA to be sold and the 3 airports to be broken up.

dublindispatch

15th Aug 2010, 00:58

The entire Star Alliance work is up for grabs in the New Year Feb/Mar time and there will be a Star Alliance mangagment team for DUB not individual ailine one. BD would have to buy out there contact to jump to SHP before that. AA may be sesonal but US Airways increasing as are BT

Jamie2k9

15th Aug 2010, 09:42

US airways only have 6 weekly flights this winter. Was it not 7 last winter.

VillWill

15th Aug 2010, 12:08

US Airways only had 5 or sometimes 4 flights a week last winter, 6 is a good improvement.
Any news of BD having the late night/early departure flight from Dublin back?

dublindispatch

15th Aug 2010, 12:12

US will be using a 767 and be DUB-PHL-ORD for the winter

Jamie2k9

15th Aug 2010, 12:28

Any news of BD having the late night/early departure flight from Dublin back?

Thats not going to happon as the aircraft is not in Dublin over night. For the winter timetable is much the same as the current one.

A lot more people are flying via Abu Dhabi with EY to get to Aisa and Australlia

Also EY are keeping the 10 weekly flights for the winter so it will help Servisair.

akerosid

15th Aug 2010, 18:49

Does anyone know (roughly) what config EY has on the A332s it sends to DUB. They have three different configurations (one in a 2 class 262 seat layout and the other two configs have three classes). I'd have thought that DUB would not have much of a F Class demand, but I think that the airline still offers F Class out of DUB?

If they do offer J and Y only, then surely the 77W is an option down the road, as this acft is configured for 2 classes only?

Jamie2k9

15th Aug 2010, 19:02

Business Class is offered from DUB

The longest runway in DUB is 2637m and I think its to short to handle the B777. During the ach problem in April they used a B777 on the DUB route but I don't know if it was restricted or not. And if it was restricted by how much either.

Jamie2k9

15th Aug 2010, 19:19

EY use a 2 config A330 on DUB route. They offer Coral Economy & Peal Business on the route.

Coral Economy - 240
Peal Business - 20
Total seats per flight - 262

They don't us Diamound First on the route.

All as per booking system.

fivejuliet

15th Aug 2010, 19:33

777 going to the UAE would have no problems at Dublin. Plenty of room.

EC-ILS

16th Aug 2010, 09:53

How happy are BD with SVS? What are the BT increases? I was to believe VNO is dropped for the winter and RIX as it was? Also Blue Air will continue throughout the winter with 2 weekly flights to BBU. TU/TH.

I stand corrected, have had a look and VNO continues 4 weekly.

Ireland105

16th Aug 2010, 14:41

Was there when Etihad sent in the B77W during the volcanic ash saga. Remember seeing it take off from runway 10. For those familiar with Dublin airport there is a large car pull in area near the end of runway 10 (start of 28). It went right up to their - the back wheels just lifting off straight in front the parked cars. Must have had about 100m of runway left if even that.

clareview

16th Aug 2010, 17:36

How did the Singapore and Air France Cargo 747s (and the AF cargo B777) manage it regularly?

dublinaviator

16th Aug 2010, 18:00

How did the Singapore and Air France Cargo 747s (and the AF cargo B777) manage it regularly?

The Celtic Tiger boom. As soon as the economy went bust, so did the twice weekly 747s...

That said, Air France Cargo seem to be going back to 747Fs. I don't think thats any sign of exports/imports picking up though, but more of a lack of available aircraft after AF selling off some of their new 777Fs to FedEx.

clareview

16th Aug 2010, 18:40

My point about the 747/777 is to do with earlier posts about the ability of the runway to cope which some seemed to be questioning

dublinaviator

16th Aug 2010, 19:05

My point about the 747/777 is to do with earlier posts about the ability of the runway to cope which some seemed to be questioning

Well there is a runway length issue with the 747. Air France Cargo only went to Chicago or Paris through Dublin, and Singapore Cargo would fly in from Dubai and then fly out to Copenhagen and on to Singapore then.

But theres definitely no issue with a 777 flying to the Middle East direct from Dublin.

dublindispatch

17th Aug 2010, 11:27

The SQ 747 left Dublin with less than **** all payload wise from Dublin, although "full" as in all positions with pallets on them, never much weight and was never any where near any of its takoff limits.

The same goes for the AF 747 which after all does not cross the pond from DUB only has a short hop over to CDG once a week after it picks up litterally a few tonnes ex Dublin.

The flightdeck crew on SQ seemed to think as well that a Pax 747-400 or a 777 would have no problem with Dublin but that the issue was crosswinds on a wet runway. I will leave that last bit for you technosexuals to post threads and suggest why the flight deck are wrong but you are not hehe.

heidelberg

19th Aug 2010, 10:15

When is the actual Date of T2 opening at DUB?
I tried the DAA website without success - does anyone have the exact date?
Am travelling DUB to MCO (Orlando) in November and naturally would love to clear everything at DUB and avoid the TSA 'fullish monty' security check on arrival at MCO.

Jamie2k9

19th Aug 2010, 10:53

There is no date as of yet but it should be open by early - mid November.

840

19th Aug 2010, 11:08

Are Aer Lingus planning to move in as soon as it opens or will they wait a few months?

Jamie2k9

19th Aug 2010, 11:22

Aer Lingus said they would use it when it opens. They may move Long-Haul first and Short-Haul a little lather. I don't realy know what way they are going to do it.

positive

19th Aug 2010, 12:00

There are some test flights in late October as far as I know with Aer Lingus so I would imagine if all is going well a move in early November is on the cards.

dublindispatch

19th Aug 2010, 12:38

Staff traing starts very soon on the use and i believe late September if opens for non operational use.

Sober Lark

19th Aug 2010, 13:42

DUB always compares its duty / tax free prices to their own tightly defined interpretation of 'high street' prices to demonstrate savings. From experience and knowledge of the 'high street' and indeed other European airports DUB must be one of the most expensive outlets in Europe. Will this hood winking of PAX continue with the new terminal or will we be pleasantly surprised by genuine savings on purchases?

EC-ILS

19th Aug 2010, 14:41

Staff familirisation is already in progress, I did mine a few weeks ago.

dublindispatch

23rd Aug 2010, 13:23

Im stll waiting to get my free trip around the white elephant, i mean t2!

Just a spotter

29th Aug 2010, 10:42

Hidden in an article in todays Sunday Independent by economist and independent Senator Shane Ross, is a quote form Bank of Ireland, the second largest bank in Ireland and currently the recipient of massive State aid, regarding Terminal 2. The article is about the awarding of a franchise to operate the foreign exchange concessions in the terminal, which BoI lost.

"It could be a poisoned chalice" said the insider, "the tender was for foreign exchange outlets at both Terminal One and Terminal Two. We would need to man new outlets at Terminal Two when it opens in November. That will mean more rents, more staff. We do not anticipate passenger numbers expanding when T2 opens. Probably the opposite. We do not want to go near T2". Shane Ross: Iceman cometh to Terminal 2 - Shane Ross, Columnists - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/shane-ross/shane-ross-iceman-cometh-to-terminal-2-2316138.html)

JAS

dublindispatch

30th Aug 2010, 01:37

Along with everyone else!!!

840

30th Aug 2010, 08:12

If most Transatlantic services plus all Aer Lingus's routes operate into T2, I would imagine it would be the better option for a Foreign Exchange desk.

T1 would get left with mostly services to the UK and Eurozone countries. People from the Eurozone won't need foreign exchange and people from the UK are likely to have a certain amount of Euro cash knocking around and also are more likely to use an ATM to withdraw cash.

EISNN

30th Aug 2010, 16:35

If most Transatlantic services plus all Aer Lingus's routes operate into T2

Just heard today from a pal who works in EI who had their T2 familiarisation last week and he said that EI will be using T2 and the old pier B in T1 for their operations.

Noxegon

30th Aug 2010, 17:44

I was wondering whether Pier B might become a de-facto part of Terminal 2... can they use the old walkway used for Pier C for arriving passengers?

Jamie2k9

30th Aug 2010, 17:58

I was wondering whether Pier B might become a de-facto part of Terminal 2... can they use the old walkway used for Pier C for arriving passengers?

I'm not sure about that but they are also building a bridge to link T1 & T2. It might be that.

Is Pier C gone for good or is it opening back up??

dublinaviator

30th Aug 2010, 18:13

It'd be kinda hard to reopen something that was effectively knocked down...

As for Pier B becoming part of T2 - a pier is a pier, a terminal is a terminal. Just because Aer Lingus decide to use T2 doesn't mean you'll be boarding in Pier E, you could end up departing from Pier B, and if things ever pick up enough in a few years and space becomes tight(especially in the morning with the US flights), you could probably be boarding from Pier D.

Just a spotter

30th Aug 2010, 19:39

Just like the little used, then completely resurfaced, then closed because the new D Pier blocked the view from the control tower, Runway 29, the short lived Pier C is no more (it was completed in 2000 at a cost of approx €150m and closed in 2008)

With most of it having been knocked down to facilitate construction of the new terminal and "E Pier"/400 gates, what remains of "C" will act as little more than the airside connection between T1 and T2.(who says the DAA don't plan ahead?) :ugh:

Pier B was scheduled to be closed for major remedial work and then also extended following the opening of T2. But weather any of that happens in the current economic climate and the growing debts of the DAA is anyones guess.

JAS