DUBLIN

[Just a spotter]

IAA website with details of the proposed 'new' "new control tower".

The current tower's view of Rwy 29 (currently closed) is obscured by the new D gates, and with plans to ultimately replace 29 with 28R a new tower will be needed (or so I'm told)

IAA Dublin Control Tower (http://www.iaadublincontroltower.ie/)

JAS

[akerosid]

:ok:

Some good news filtering through; Etihad is looking to increase services on some existing routes, with DUB and MAN competing for possible new services; a strong possibility is that DUB could receive 3 extra weekly flights, bringing it up to 10 pw. The airline is taking delivery of more acft later this year.

[Bearcat]

highlighting once more what a dogs dinner Aer Lingus made of the Dubai route.

[Seljuk22]

Passenger numbers down 15% in August and 13% in July. In both months 2.1 million passengers counted.

[EC-ILS]

It doesnt prove EI made a mess of DXB! What it proves is there is great demand for onwards connections from AUH, EI didnt have the onward feed from DXB.

[akerosid]

I'm afraid Bearcat is right on this, EC-ILS; of all the errors DM made while CEO of EI, this was the biggest. He seemed to have learned nothing from his long experience at EK ... the value of a consistent product, good marketing and scheduling. Had EI marketed this and entered into an interline agreement with EK, then the DXB route could have been a success; there was more than sufficient numbers of pax (and even still, despite the recession) flying between Asia and Ireland to justify a direct service, feeding into a major hub like DXB.

The failure of DXB raises the question with me: was the main objective to keep EK out, as it was rumoured around that time that they were looking closely at DUB as a possible route.

[EC-ILS]

I was under the impression their was no interlin agreement signd with EK because EK wanted nothing to do with the rather dissapointing EI long haul product?

[akerosid]

There again, another reason where they got it very wrong; there wasn't an awful lot that needed to be done to make it a very good product (and it's not as if EK's - for all their hype - are the world's greatest); a little consistency and better IFE and they'd have had a much better product, yet even for what was arguably the most important new route development in their recent history, they couldn't do that ... basically gave the market away to EY.

Anyway, that's a discussion for the EI thread, so I just want to refocus on DUB's long haul potential, such as it is; good to see EY growing anyway, but what other growth opportunities are there? I'm wondering what changes, if any, the DAA would need to put into place to make DUB more attractive to long haul low cost operators like Air Asia X and Jetstar?

It seems to me that long haul low cost is the wave of the future and the DAA needs to incentivise the development of this kind of operation at DUB; the less spent on travel to a destination, the more available to spend there; our proximity to the US, combined with Open Skies and the various US agencies (Immigration/Customs pre-clearance) available here, should make Ireland much more attractive to visit, but the mere existence of these doesn't make it so; we need to be aggressive in pushing it.

[dublindispatch]

Any Dublin updates regaridng anyone other than MOL or EI?

[riptack]

Is there really much of a Dublin without MOL or EI??! :hmm:

[dublindispatch]

Well lets see
WE HAVE THE FOLLOWING:

DY
BT
BE
MON
LG
RE
EY
3V
TOM
8A
8Q
JP
4U
EXT
IB
TK
DL
AA
CO
AC
US
GSM
PF
SK
LH
5Q
LX
UX
TY
AF
WX
Just to name a few so yes you are right nothing in DUB except EI and FR!!!!!!!!!!

[Based]

Well apparently there should be 78 if you name them all, problem is the low number of routes and frequencies from 76 of them! Using the next 24 hours at DUB as an example, FR and EI will constitute 72% of all aircraft arrivals!

[EC-ILS]

5Q dont fly to DUB any more, 8Q, JP, 4U, AC, GSM(Y2) are strictly summer only and 8A, UX and TY are few and far between.

Lets face facts, with EI and FR DUB really has sweet FA.

[dublindispatch]

When i put in 5Q I was thinking off the top off my head and was thinking Air South West, im buggered if i can remember there 2 letter code, 72% of flights may be EI/FR but the other 28% percent or nearly the other third is still a third off a resonably large pie.

And that 28% is also esponsible for a not unconsiderable amount of peoples jobs!! Jobs that are not in a semi-state body or a megolomaniacs domain so, i think it is very justified to ask if there is any news rumours etc etc that involve the silient minority in DUB......

Well any news...........

[ara01jbb]

It's a long shot, but travelled DUB-LGW on FR118 on Saturday 7.11.2009. Sat in 1A and got chatting to the friendly DUB-based cabin crew before and after service, but on leaving the plane left a small but expensive text book in the seat pocket adjacent to 1A. Would appreciate any assistance (via PM) to relocate the book, possibly via the Belfast-born crew member I was chatting to. It has return address details inside for Queens University Belfast, modest compensation offered. LGW lost property has not received it. Thanks.

[bia botal]

but on leaving the plane left a small but expensive text book in the seat pocket adjacent to 1A

try contacting A1 trash compacters

[wxjedi]

Heard a very interesting rumour this morning on a flight that DUB may be seeing some little buses to jump the atlantic. They won't be green or blue.

Can a A318 do DUB-JFK or BOS???
Not the elite one just a regular A318.

[Seljuk22]

Mmmmh...this rumour?
New low-fare airline planned for Ireland-U.S. route | Irish News | IrishCentral (http://www.irishcentral.com/news/New-Low-Fare-Airline-Planned-for-Ireland-US-Route--77255262.html)

[wxjedi]

No not that one.
A Skyteam service using two french 318s!!

[Seljuk22]

The A318 seats 107 passengers in a typical two-class cabin layout over a range of up to 3,250 nm/6,000 km, powered by CFM56-5 or PW6000 engines.

Performance (http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a320/a318/performance/)

[EC-ILS]

Danube Wings started Poprad this morning, I think it came via MAN with a miserable 25 passengers on it, once a week frequency is a disaster!

[Just a spotter]

But perhaps not the type they were looking for.

The Dublin Airport Authority has been award a Golden Bull award by the UK's Plain English Campaign for this little gem from one of their agreements with a contractor ..

(c) Neither the execution and delivery by the Consultant of this Agreement nor the consummation by it of any of the transactions contemplated hereby, requires, with respect to it, the consent or approval of the giving of notice to, the registration, with the record or filing of any document with, or the taking of any other action in respect of any government authority, except such as are not yet required (as to which it has no reason to believe that the same will not be readily obtainable n the ordinary course of business upon due application therefore) or which have been duly obtained and are in full force and effect.Golden Bull winners 2009 (http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/awards/golden-bull-awards/golden-bull-winners-2009.html)

JAS

[positive]

Etihad Airways, the national airline of the United Arab Emirates, is to increase its flying programme to Dublin, moving from its current daily service to 10 flights per week from March 28, 2010.
Etihad launched its Irish service in July 2007 with an initial four flights a week, increasing to six and then moving to a daily service in March 2008.
James Hogan, Etihad Airways' chief executive officer, said: "Dublin has been one of our most successful ever destination launches, with more than 300,000 people flying on these services since launch and an average seat factor of 80 per cent. "We have steadily increased frequencies on the route in line with demand not only on the Dublin-Abu Dhabi route, but also via Abu Dhabi to and from our destinations in the Far East, such as Bangkok and Sydney. "The latest increase in our Irish flying is indicative of the huge confidence we have in this important market."
Supporting this increase in services, Etihad is planning a new lounge at Dublin airport, which is set to open in 2010.

[Shingles]

Yes, I saw this here (http://insidetraveller.co.uk/blog/?p=695) and thought it seemed a little foolhardy of Etihad to up Abu Dhabi-Dublin by 35%+ at a time when the Irish economy is screwed - but the figures obviously add up for them, and it has got to lift the gloom somewhat.

[ryan2000]

Also helps long haul customers to avoid LHR and make Australia in one stop if I'm correct.

[akerosid]

Actually, the Irish economy grew in the last quarter, so technically - if there is another quarter of growth, we're out of recession. So, "screwed" is not quite accurate; sure, there's a long, long way to go, but clearly EY feels the potential is there and most importantly, they have a greater incentive to market Ireland more effectively around their growing network.

[Just a spotter]

@akerosid {watching out, thread drift ....}

Unfortunately that's not correct.

The generally accepted definition of a recession is two, or more, consecutive quarters of economic contraction (or negative growth) as measured by real GDP. In order to exit recession an economy merely has to break the run of back to back negative quarters. So, one quarter of growth, or even of 0% in real GDP following several of contraction would mean said economy had exited recession, even if it were to slip back into a decline after that. In fact, in extremis, an economy can have a massive negative quarter, followed by a flat or slight up quarter, followed by a massive down, followed by a flat .... [repeat as you you see fit] and while it would be suffering from significant contraction would not 'technically' be in recession as it did not have consecutive negative quarters.

That said, the figures being 'hailed' for Ireland as growth in Q3 09 is seasonally adjusted GDP which, as it's an adjusted figure and not a real (i.e. unadjusted) one does not count for defining if 'we' are in or out of recession.

Sorry to burst any warm fuzzy bubble that had been created by the premature calling of the end of the recession.

JAS

[Shamrogue]

Once Christmas is over, I would suspect further job losses will be announced in both retail and construction - or perhaps not announced - just merely happen.
You only have to walk around a number of Irish cites to see how quiet life is.

FDI will rise to the top of the tree in the eyes of the politician and low and behold pressure will come on the IDA to move projects along and get jobs back in.

Of course costs will have to drop first, and labour prices likewise.

But without turning it all into an economics lecture. The EY link just re-affirms the link to the Far East and natives from over there working in Ireland and also takes on the market which BA/QF/SQ traditionally owned between Ireland and OZ. Effectively EY becomes a Desert Kangaroo for Paddies.
Additional airline routes next year will be thin on the ground - summer charters to the Greek Islands will be as exciting as it gets.

Cheerio

Shamrogue

[irish lad]

Major disruption at Dublin this morning... seems like EI are the worst affected and alot of flights to UK cancelled

Did we really get that much snow in Dublin this morning?? :confused:

[EI-BUD]

irish lad, I think the issue was more the ice and low temperature topped with some snow!

RTE said on the news bulletin that many flights were cancelled and many other diverted... Does anyone know how many flights diverted, to where etc?


Happy new year to all...!

EI-BUD

[Ringwayman]

Think it was along the line of 4 EI A330s, 1 DL and EY ending up at SNN, CO choosing BFS, and AA, US and the other DL going to MAN.

[4HolerPoler]

Dublin reported as closed for a while -

All flights to and from Dublin were suspended on Friday after heavy snowfall on New Year's Eve which also disrupted bus and rail services in the Irish capital. "We hope to resume operations at 1030 (GMT)," a spokeswoman for Dublin Airport said. Dublin is the home base of Ryanair, Europe's biggest low-cost airline, and former state carrier Aer Lingus. The airport's website showed some flights due as late as 1500 GMT have been cancelled. Dublin Bus said on its website that no local bus services would be operating on Friday until further notice due to the harsh weather and Irish Rail also reported disruptions at major stations.

[Wellevaart]

Any new airline (+ a/c) rumours for DUB?

Who will be taking over the GSM route?

[Airbus321-200]

As far as i'm aware there will be a new charter airline in DUB this year.

I dont think the GSM routes will be taken over. If Aer lingus were smart they' would operate a summer only Toronto or Vancouver. But as we all know they seem to prefer to park their A/C for months on end.

[thats right]

Yup new charter airline , Air Contractors operating B737s to Turkey

[EISNN]

yup that's right with one Aeropost 737.

[irish lad]

some real potential for an airline to offer low cost, regular flights to Greek islands, Turkey and Med in general

Anyone know if Dub is up and going again???

[escortmk2]

Opened around the 20.15 mark.

[Wellevaart]

Ok thanks!

[dublindispatch]

Well chaps, any news of any news? Other than the old chestnuts of EI and FR, Yawn yawn snooze-a-thon!!

Nice piece over the weekend on how many airlines not using or not wanting to commit to the new T2.

[Just a spotter]

According to RTÉ, cutting to 1 AC on the route with the removal of the DUB base.

RTÉ Business: BMI to close Dublin cabin crew base (http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0112/bmi.html)

JAS

[dublindispatch]

no big shock there with the chopping and changing of times, at least its not til march, in avaition terms thats a lifetime away!! Could all change again and again before then!!

[Charlie Roy]

BMI's reductions will be music to the ears of all competitors on the Dublin - London market, but especially Aer Lingus.

[apaddyinuk]

And an absolute shame to the rest of us!

[Sober Lark]

What is the option? Do nothing and continue to squeeze 20-23 million people into the existing cramped terminal with inferior facilities? Someone said the surplus pax should be put in sheds (minus the sheep dipping facility of course). Every country has a long term infrastructure plan and the time has come for a second terminal that isn't a shed and that has what one expects in modern travel.

[dubh12000]

Increase passenger charges by a third!?? jeez.

[Economics101]

A classic case of bad planning/ bad timing. Up to 2008 traffic at DUB was growing at 10% (?) per annum and the DAA was desperately trying to keep up by adding to capacity in a series of ad hoc measures. Then when they go for a proper new facility (T2 - which they should have done ten years ago) lo and behold, traffic starts to drop by more than 10% a year.

So they are left high and dry: a bit like many other sectors of the Irish economy. I wouldn't mind if they scrapped or mothballed Pier A and D. Save everyone a huge trudge in the case of pier D.

[Sober Lark]

Pier 'A' is pretty close to the image of a low cost facility as you can get without it being a shed. Why waste mothballs?

[Just a spotter]

I recall reading somewhere (possibly a version of a DAA plan) that once T1/Pier E opens, that Pier B will be closed. There appears to be structural issues with the area that would require extensive works.

The plan, drawn up when the economy was growing, was to demolish the current B gates and build a straight out pier in its place, pretty much parallel to the new pier. Once that was done, the same fate would befall the end of Pier A.

But with Ireland now returning to a more familiar economic pattern that seems unlikely.

JAS

[apaddyinuk]

Pier 'A' is pretty close to the image of a low cost facility as you can get without it being a shed. Why waste mothballs?

The irony is that Pier A appears far more low-cost then Pier D!

[Just a spotter]

A report in The Irish Times suggests that the DAA is to cut charges.

DAA to cut charges in effort to lure new airlines - The Irish Times - Mon, Jan 18, 2010 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0118/1224262563268.html)

JAS

[dublindispatch]

Would that explain Danube Wings and BlueOne then? They must be getting deals? I suppose to airlines any deal better than no deal, as long as it covers the costs.

Mind you i guess we could see a rath of dodgy airlines that have no prospect of lasting on routes. At least the plane spotters will be happy, and the staff that handle them.

[positive]

Dublin airport will have lost close to 3.5 million passengers in 2009 alone and with terminal 2 due to open next November they need to do something quickly to boost passenger numbers.

It'll be interesting to see Ryanair's response to this proposal by the DAA

[pug]

Could it highlight if it was just a ploy by FR to cut unprofitable routes or could we see the likes of DSA and MME return?

[Sober Lark]

Decrease in numbers is reflective of the economic crisis and compounded by the inability of DUB to be able to spread risk both geographically and in terms of actual airlines serving the country.

It is rather simplistic and insulting to the intelligence of the general public to imply DAAs charging structure is the main reason for the - 3.5 million PAX decline, but the situation looks rather hopeless.

If it were a game of chess then they don't appear to have very many valuable pieces or moves left on the board. Even at this late stage, unless they adopt a successful strategy they will find them selves in checkmate.

[positive]

Quote

It is rather simplistic and insulting to the intelligence of the general public to imply DAAs charging structure is the main reason for the - 3.5 million PAX decline, but the situation looks rather hopeless.

The downturn has played a major part in the decline in numbers but the DAA have also been very slow to introduce any new incentives to the airlines as well the timing of T2 does not help their cause but going back less than two years ago T2 was a must have.

Hopefully the new discounts will have some effect on traffic numbers.

[racedo]

People should not overlook the Daft tourist tax which made some routes which were marginal no longer attractive for airlines to operate and the tax has been derided by all airlines.

[1sky]

People should not overlook the Daft tourist tax which made some routes which were marginal no longer attractive for airlines to operate and the tax has been derided by all airlines.

+1.
A tax which has been totally underestimated by many people and more than a mere tourist tax, is making travel abroad more difficult and expensive for Irish people.

[Economics101]

Probably the contract (written pre-crash) had incentives to finish the job asap. (Now if they only worked similarly round the clock on some nearby road projects....)

[dublindispatch]

Or is this going to be another one of these last minute not going on strike strikes!!!

If you are going to go on strike to make a point, please make it early am week day to hit all the t/a flights or at the weekend to hit all the D4's going skiing.

I jest btw with the above.

It has my day rigthly fecked but sure these things happen and we get on with it.

Im sure it wont be the only IR issue to hit the travelling public!!

[Cyrano]

Although I'm going to be directly affected by their actions tomorrow, I say good on them for standing up for themselves....:ok:

I can see where they're coming from and support their position, especially after listening to Liam Kavanagh, the IAA Director of Human Resources on the One O'Clock News here today, a right arrogant :mad: by the sound of him....

Scroll down and click on the link to listen for yourselves....

RTÉ News: Strike consequences worry Government (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0119/air.html) :ugh:


Statement from the IAA here (http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=93&n=96&a=831).

This asserts:
...We need them to pay a contribution towards their pension in line with all other public service workers. (The Controllers make no contribution to their own pensions. The Authority, meanwhile, pays a contribution of 30.5% of salary for every member of staff.)

"They are among the best paid public servants in the country. On average, they cost the Irish Aviation Authority €160,000 each. Earnings for the top ten per cent of controllers in the country last year ranged from €170,000 to €230,000.

"They work 182 days a year, they have 137 rest days, and 36 days holidays - in addition to 10 public holidays. They work a 35 hour week. They are entitled to a break of 30 minutes for every two hours worked. They work five days and then get three days off.

Obviously both sides are keen to paint themselves as the reasonable ones here - but is the above factually accurate?

[dublindispatch]

Anyone got any idea who the mysterious 15 airlines are that DAA have "invited" to attend briefings and presentaions area over the new inhanced subsidies that have been introduced recently?

Any clues in that the new scheme now includes route to the uk?

Anyone fancy a punt as to who they are??

[Droghwings]

OK...I'm guessing, but here's my list of airlines invited to the DAA event.
Would be good to hear any other suggestions.

Alitalia
Olympic
Aegean Airlines
Tarom
Aeroflot
Cyprus Airways
EL AL
Iceland Express
Air Berlin
Lufthansa
Air France
Iberia
Aer Lingus
Ryanair

[Airbus321-200]

I would think the same as above but maybe:

Monarch (scheduled services)
Cityjet
Aer Arann
Jet2
Easyjet (although i doubt it)
Austrian

the last 2 are just random airlines to make my list look better but you never know!! :)

[Hogg]

Dont forget Air Baltic (recieve another B752 very very soon) and CSA are there too. :)

[EI-BUD]

AirbusA321-200, From the list of potential airlines that you mention, I doubt Monarch would launch scheduled services as in order to justify a marketing spend to attract critical Mass they would need significant Investment which would simply use up the incentive offered by the DAA.

Easyjet a complete non starter. However, maybe a chance for AerArann could take a look at (in association with new AerLingus tie up;)

Dublin to ;
Doncaster
Manston
Humberside
Durham Tees
Dundee
Norwich

any thoughts?

Ei-bud

[irish lad]

I would have guessed their looking for new airlines and new routes! FR and EI are pulling back on services all the time, but keeping enough of a foot in so that no other carrier can get onto their dublin routes without being battered back out....

I hope its medium to long haul airlines with new routes or to make some current routes all year round! They would at least avoid an onslaught from FR

Prehabs airlines like

Cyprus Airways
EgyptAir
Aeroflot
El Al
Air Canada
Iceland Air
Thai Airways
Air Aisa X
SAA
Northwest
Cathay Pacific
Singapore Airlines
Continental (Houston/ Dallas)
Delta (LAX/ Las vegas)

[Airbus321-200]

It would be great to see Air Asia X to DUB as we need flights to that area of the world although i dont know how Etihad would feel about that.

I believe Aer Arann may use this to open some new routes in conjunction with the EI deal.

Monarch have met with the DAA discussing scheduled services from DUB in the past so they are interested but i dont think it'll be enough of an incentive for them to launch in these times.

irish lad

Northwest have merged with Delta so we'll never see them here which is a pity.

[dublindispatch]

I have heard that Air India may be one and that they are interested in the new pre clearance in Dublin if it ever opens.

Monarch out of Dublin mainly fly for Direct Holidays but certainly some holes are noe appering in the Dublin list of routes so maybe but would Irish people pay for what MON offer compared to an FR or EI ticket, i would doubt that very much.

I would guess that a LCA/PFO route would do well from DUB, eben once a week and defo more Turkey flights, maybe get PGT back for that?

I would also guess that west bound at this stage is flogging a dead duck unless DUB was an intermediate stop and the airline got traffic rights from the TWO points from DUB.

I am so sure that a Lagos route would work or something down that neck off the woods even for freight.

[Airbus321-200]

If MON picked the right routes the would make it profitable. They wouldnt be able to operate to Turkey due to silly red tape unless they had an EI-reg.

I think Larnaca and Skiathos & Santorini (ex-XL routes) would do very well. Santorini is such a great island.

One i forgot to mention was Wizzair.

[positive]

Blue Air are starting a Dublin to Bucharest three times weekly end of March

[dublindispatch]

I dont think they are using OTP i think its some LCC airport, mite work, didnt EI try DUB-OTP? The blue air is a 735 i think

[Shamrock350]

Aer Lingus still operate DUB-OTP three weekly.

Blue Air will use Bucharest Băneasa Airport.

[en2r]

One i forgot to mention was Wizzair.
Would they tempt fate though by starting operations from Dublin?

Wizzair now have a fairly decent Polish network at Cork operating from Cork to Gdansk, Katowice, Poznan, Warsaw and Wroclaw. So far Ryanair have not responded to their growing network from Cork. If they were to launch operations from Dublin, would Ryanair decide they were getting too big for their boots and respond aggressively at both Cork and Dublin?

[GA Button]

Doubt it seeing as they're both funded by the same investors.....

[Tom the Tenor]

I feel pretty sure that Lagos would indeed work from Dublin and was there also not talk of PIA putting Dublin in the picture at some point after they started Barcelona. Well, Barcelona has started so let Dublin roll? However, the 777 may just be too big and the A310s may be nearly past it for today's more discerning passenger? I am sure Karachi would fill easily enough but I guess that PIA could get better yields elsewhere?

Lagos is now overdue and would get the good yields too.

[dublindispatch]

PIA I thought were on the EU bold list for foreign airlines! Time no doubt will tell what what with who, but going by the deals on offer it would look like your handling costs are about all you have to pay in Dublin and your ATC charges so it will no doubt make someone no matter how odd the city pairing be make a go off it in some shape or fashion.

[Just a spotter]

In suggesting new routes out of DUB, it's important to bear in mind the range/capacity restrictions placed on aircraft by the relatively short runway at the airport (2,637 m) (by way of comparison; 3,119m at SNN, 2,780 at BFS, 3,200m at MAN, 2,160 m at LTN, 3,048m at STN, 3,316m at LGW and 3,901m at LHR).

JAS

[irish lad]

Personally i would luv 2 c an airline doing crete, not just chartered! surprised EI haven't picked it up...

Also tought South Africa would have started especiaonally with the world cup this year!!

And yeah I know Ireland aren't gona be there, but still ;)

[dublindispatch]

Oh im sure if JETX could operate a 737 from Dub to pop via whereevere it was in canada, im sure someone will try and send something to SA for the world cup

[EC-ILS]

Why would anyone organise a charter from DUB to SA for the world cup we arnt even in it!

[dublindispatch]

Cause sport is sport is sport I guess!!! and thers nowt as queer as folk as they say. Who knows or even cares why people would be interested in sport, if you follow that logic why would RTE even broadcast it or papers report on the World Cup.

[dublindispatch]

Air Baltic are too relaunch VNO-DUB-VNO for summer 10 as per airlineroute.net

[dublindispatch]

i see that dont launch anyones rockets then

[Charlie Roy]

i see that dont launch anyones rockets then

LOL! Well, I was rather interested by the announcement. airBaltic's timetable competes with Aer Lingus's to some extent. Now that Aer Lingus have axed LGW - VNO maybe airBaltic are hoping their commitment to and presence at Vilnius has weakened.

Aer Lingus
DUB - VNO 1545 - 2100 M-W-F-S
VNO - DUB 2155 - 2320 M-W-F-S

airBaltic
DUB - VNO 0050 - 0555 MT--FS-
VNO - DUB 2240 - 0010 M--TF-S

Star1
DUB - VNO 0115 - 0610 --W-F-S
VNO - DUB 2315 - 0025 -T-T-S-

Flights between Vilnius and Dublin are all between 10pm and 11pm.
There is at least one Dublin flight per day, a total of 11 per week. I think the market is big enough. (Ryanair will fly 4 weekly this summer between Kaunas and Dublin).

[dublindispatch]

What BT have over all the other carriers is connectivity from VNO through the BT network, I know at least 50 or 60% of the BT DUB-RIX pax are all onward connex ex RIX, im sure the VNO will be the same

[EC-ILS]

VNO wont quite be the same because the BT network from VNO is not nearly as extensive as the RIX one.

[dublindispatch]

The BT website shows 13 destinations from VNO, I think the plan may be more along the lines off pushing Star1 off the route rather than EI, but timw will tell if 3 airlines can survive, still an extra carrier ex DUB is still a bonus

[EC-ILS]

Without a doubt its great to have BT back to VNO, anuy chance of OV returning, would be like the good old days on a late shift with Baltics everywhere!

[dublindispatch]

OV timetable shows them in and om the map shows TARTU???? as well from DUB, I see on CH website that LOT polish is sniffing around DUB again, mahe EIRJET mite come back...........maybe not!!!!

[Cyrano]

Irish Times story. (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/travel/2010/0130/1224263404654.html)

Dublin departure gates are apparently to be renumbered (D --> 1xx, A --> 2xx, B --> 3xx, etc.). I can see some logic in this but anticipate a bit of chaos at first!

The Irish Times piece is generally coherent but includes the odd assertion
Pier D, for example, is before piers A and B rather than between C and E, so distracted early-morning travellers could end up wandering the wrong way in search of it.
:confused:

With these references to C and E, I assume they mean that if in the future, when T2 opens, and if there is no renumbering and its gates are labelled "Exx", then some people might be confused. As opposed to the current situation where B is one way and A and D are the other way - not confusing at all! ;)

[Just a spotter]

The new numbering sequence makes no logical sense at all!!

As a passenger passes through security today, the Pier identification is (including the new as yet unopened 'E'), left to right, 'E', 'C', 'B', 'A', 'D', with letters being allocated as the areas were built.

From Wednesday, passengers will have, left to right, 4nn, 3nn, 1nn, 2nn.

I don't know about you, but I expect number to increase left to right. All the DAA has done is move the deck chairs. The boarding areas are still being designated as they are built, rather than being logical or easy to use.

Why not have given it a little thought and reallocated as follows;

E --> 101, 102, ....
C/B -->201, 202, ..
A --> 301, 302, ...
D --> 401, 402, ...

Just a thought ...

JAS

[ayroplain]

The new numbering sequence makes no logical sense at all!! .
Logic?? Aren't you forgetting we are talking about the DAA here.

[Airbus321-200]

Does anyone have any infomation on TOM662 to San Jose. Is it a cruise flight???

[dublindispatch]

yes it stopped in dub to pick up pax on way frm HUY and was stopping in SFB for crew change, i think there are a couple more with other airlines over the next couple of months.

[airhumberside]

It was for Fred Olsen Cruises. Though the HUY website showed went from MAN instead of HUY for some unknown reason

[Airbus321-200]

It was delayed for a few hours so maybe thats why it went from MAN.

[EI321]

New photos of Terminal 2 here:

T2 Construction Gallery (http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/TDA/Image_Bank/t2_construction_gallery.html)

[Noxegon]

Wow, looking at shot nine gives a real feel for how big it is.

http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/images/New_T2_9.JPG

I can't help but wonder if the right thing to do is mothball Terminal One until the traffic builds back up, moving everything to the new building!

[Just a spotter]

Michael O'Leary has been quite vocal over the past few days about his desire to get his hands on the former SR Tecnics Hangar 6 in Dublin, saying Ryanair will create 300 aircraft maintenance positions if they can get the building.

Given that things with Ryanair are sometimes not what they seem, could it be that the promise of 300 maintainance jobs is just a ruse? Afterall FR are looking to purchase the hangar not lease it. See the below quote from The Irish Independent.

"I don't think Mary Coughlan should resign," he said. "She should lift up the phone and call the DAA and sell us the hangar."Would Dublin be a cost effective maintenance base for the Ryanair fleet? Even beyond cost effective, would it be the least expensive and offer Ryanair the best value?

Perhaps FR would like to take ownership of Hangar 6 then transform it into "Terminal 3" for their own use thus breaking their ties with the DAA. Or am I just one conspiracy theory away from needing a new layer to my tin foil hat?

JAS

[dublindispatch]

I think we are as a nation may be getting a bit sick listining to Pope Michael Oleary of the Holy rip off. All he wants is some publicity and something for nothing. Get over your buzz MOL. Poor baba dont like talking to those nasty DAA men so lets make a fuss and maybe they will go away!

[EISNN]

please correct me if I'm wrong here but there may be more to this than meets the eye. MOL might be onto something here. when EI had that building years ago there was room on the ramp for 3 widebodies and as they were part of the hangar's site there were no fees for parking aircraft there. It's also very close to the access to the old smaller runway that commuter aircraft used to use.

Add the large amount of office space that's there and you could possibly see FR converting it into a low cost passenger terminal as well as operational hangar. MOL had looked a few years ago to build a low cost terminal. Maybe this could be the way to get around it and give the DAA a run for it's money.

I've also heard as a RUMOUR that EI were going to move their entire headquarters operation to the hangar and redevelop their current head quarter building into a hotel to lease out to someone else. That was something that Willie Walsh has considered during his tenure there. Hence EI's possible requirement for Hangar 6.

As I said some of this is speculation but I'm nearly sure that the parking of aircraft by hangar 6 site did incur parking fees.

[akerosid]

He may be onto something, but the fact of the matter is that he wanted the minister to intervene in a relationship which had already been established; the DAA had leased the building to EI; what exactly is the minister expected to do? To intervene in that could give rise to a civil action by Aer Lingus ("incitement to breach of contract")?

If FR wants a hangar at DUB, there is plenty of space for it to do so; there are other hangars more than capable of taking 738s, so it just adds to the questions that need to be asked of FR/MO'L.

[Hobby Flyer]

Mary Coughlan spent €160,000 according to a response to an FOI request from the Irish Times travelling on the government jet with Willie O' Dea to see another Michael in Texas a while ago trying to persuade him to save the jobs of Dell workers in Limerick.

Maybe she should be a bit more proactive about trying to save jobs in Dublin. Or maybe if Michaels surname was Dell instead of O'Leary things might be different.

[vkid]

Even if he gets the hangar, he cant just decide to use it as a passenger terminal of any sort. There would be planning permission for change of use first of all which i really doubt he would succeed with.

Mary Coughlans performance in Houston relating to DELL would not be an example of how to save jobs. Yes they spent 160k but have nothing to show for it. Not 1 job was saved. If rumours are to be believed around Limerick/DELL, they did more harm than good to the irish governments reputation on that particular junket..

[Hobby Flyer]

From the agreement between Aer Lingus and the DAA regarding Hangar 6:

"save that it is expressly acknowledged that notwithstanding anything contained in or implied by this agreement if the licensor requires at any time the licenced area or any part of the licenced area for the purpose of the aircraft operation or development of Dublin Airport the licensee shall yield to the licensor the full free and vacant possession of the licenced area."

In this case, the Licenced area is Hangar 6, the licensee is Aer Lingus, and the Licensor is the DAA.

No wonder Ryanair want to buy the Hangar rather then lease the space from the DAA under these conditions. The DAA have been doing this for years and not just to ryanair: car rental companies, self service check in kiosks and baggage handlers accommodation have all been "moved to facilitate the development of the airport" by the "licensor" in the past, and in all cases the "new licenced areas" have been provided at a hefty increase in the rental costs.

So essentially, a "lease agreement" with the DAA under the aforementioned terms is merely the equivalent of selling your soul to the devil.

PS: The aforementioned terms also indicate how the DAA could exercise this clause in it's agreement with Aer Lingus in order to facilitate the sale of Hangar 6 to Ryanair: this would definitely facilitate the "development of the airport," would it not?

[akerosid]

O'Leary blames Tánaiste as Ryanair to take 300 jobs elsewhere | BreakingNews.ie (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/oleary-blames-tanaiste-as-ryanair-to-take-300-jobs-elsewhere-446480.html)

So, poor old MC is at fault because she wouldn't tell EI to vacate a hangar for which it had entered into a lease with the DAA. Well, wasn't she unreasonable!

What did O'Leary expect? Why would/should the minister intervene; did it cross his mind (I'm sure it did!) that she could not actually - legally - do what she was being asked to do. MO'L was just being a petulent little p****k, asking for something he knew he wasn't going to get, not to mention the fact that he was playing with the hopes of so many unemployed ex-SRT employees.

If he was so darn keen on having hangar space, why not use the other hangars, or a new-build hangar, like he's going to get at PIK; why is he asking for something different at DUB from what's getting at Prestwick? What will he ask of other European airports? Shall we expect Iberia, LOT, CSA or others, to be moved out of their hangars?

Really, he is just acting up for publicity and frankly, it's despicable.

[ayroplain]

Bottom line. There is no way that the DAA (and, thus the Govt.) would agree to permit their flagship hangar to be adorned with the Ryanair logo and staffed with non-union personnel. MOL would know that already so it was all just a stunt but also an ideal opportunity to have a go at embarrassing and exposing the entire grouping of Govt., DAA and Aer Lingus all at the same time. These three have been in cahoots since the beginning at DUB and it will never change.

[Lord Lardy]

MOL would know that already so it was all just a stunt but also an ideal opportunity to have a go at embarrassing and exposing the entire grouping of Govt., DAA and Aer Lingus all at the same time.


I'm a little confused. How were Aer Lingus embarrased? They had nothing to do with it apart from legally occupy the building he was after. In fact now that it's mentioned i'm curious as to see how the DAA were embarrased either. My understanding is Ryanair never dealt with them in the first place.

[CCR]

Did MOL say why the deal at Prestwick can't apply to Dublin?? i.e. build a new hangar.
Maybe he has a hidden agenda..Sad really, playing with the hopes of the recently redundant Dublin aircraft maintenance workers.
The only solution I could see is that Aer Lingus be induced to leave, i.e. have a new hangar built for them and to walk away from the Hangar 6 lease at a nice profit.

[Sober Lark]

Clear the deck and stop pussy footing.

Give Leo Hanger 6 for use as a low cost shed and another hanger for heavy checks and to create 300 jobs.

[racedo]

Think DAA's quick lease with EI was a deliberate attempt to block any hope FR would have in taking up the lease. Unfortunately that is the way DAA works.

[ayroplain]

I'm a little confused. How were Aer Lingus embarrased? They had nothing to do with it apart from legally occupy the building he was after. In fact now that it's mentioned i'm curious as to see how the DAA were embarrased either. My understanding is Ryanair never dealt with them in the first place.

OK let me spell it out for you.

MOL to IDA: We want Hangar 6. 500 jobs but no f******g Unions.

IDA to MC: MOL wants Hangar 6. 500 jobs but no Unions.

MC to DAA: MOL wants Hangar 6. 500 jobs but no Unions.

DAA to MC: Hangar 6? Over our f*****g dead bodies.

MC to DAA: But how can we stop it?

DAA to MC: We'll be back to you in 10 minutes.

DAA to EI: We want you in Hangar 6.

EI to DAA: No way, it's far to big for us.

DAA to EI: MOL wants it.

EI to DAA: Mein Gott!!! We'll be in it by midnight tonight. What about the lease costs?

DAA to EI: Don't worry. We'll look after you.

EI to DAA: But what if someone else bigger than us comes along?

DAA to EI: Don't worry. We'll put the usual clause in. Get moving.

DAA to MC: Sorted. Tell that f*****r MOL that Hangar 6 is not available but we'll talk to him on our terms.

That's how it works at DUB.

So, MOL now sets his plan in action to get back at the triumvirate.
In a big publicity stunt he gives 200 of the jobs to Scotland and announces he can still give 300 to DUB but only in Hangar 6.

With the media and the Opposition in full stride behind him, the publication of the pathetic correspondence and the photos of the empty Hangar 6, the DAA, MC and Aer Lingus (who won't vacate a hangar they don't need even for the sake of 300 jobs) are shown up to be, in the public eye, the bad boys all working together to keep him out even in desperate times with hundreds of jobs at stake.

[CamelhAir]

who won't vacate a hangar they don't need even for the sake of 300 jobs

Ryanair are downsizing at Dublin, Aer Lingus are not. Why don't ryanair vacate Dublin and allow EI to expand and create more jobs?
So Aer Lingus won't help out their main competitor? Do you think ryanair would do likewise?
In fact, why don't ryanair not downsize shannon? for the sake of all those lost jobs in Shannon, why don't they stay? If they care so much about jobs...
Wake up and see the real agenda.

[CallBell]

It seems to me that while FR were refusing to talk directly to the DAA about Hangar6, the DAA were busily dealing with other interested parties who wanted to lease it. FR did not get Hangar 6 because they refused to negotiate directly with the owners.

[Sober Lark]

"abrasive personality" Sure but it got him to where he is - the world's biggest airline didn't it and that certainly gives him more clout than Mr Nice Guy with only 33 aircraft. If FR gets EI then they get the hanger anyway.

[vkid]

the DAA are currently offering office and facility space at 2007 rates......

Rates from the very height of the Irish boom ?
Surely current rates elsewhere in the property market are way way below 2007 levels.

If it was anyone else apart from the DAA involved I'd be thinking differently but as it stands i'd be thinking along the lines of Ayroplain's hypothetical scenario above.

[vkid]

They're less than the 2008, 2009 and the envisaged 2010 rates......

They should be cutting rates below 07 levels imo like most of the rest of the irish economy.. restoring competitiveness etc but I suppose something/someone has to pay for Terminal2

[EISNN]

H6 is the most suitable hangar for A330s

I've been reliably informed that H6 is the ONLY suitable hangar for A330's in Dublin. The others are not big enough. So it would've been EI building a new hangar or FR building a new hangar. EI got there first is the only difference.

[racedo]

Can we keep this on topic rather than the political posturings of some people as while I'm sure personal party politics is important to some people, on here its irrelevant.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Don't jump to conclusions guys. Especially when you are not sure of your facts. Conjecture always means that when you do offer bad opinions you worry the life out of the working staff. No nice!

AA&R Mods

[ayroplain]

I've been reliably informed that H6 is the ONLY suitable hangar for A330's in Dublin.

OK, if that is correct info can you ask your informant where the A330's were being (line) maintained before the date of commencement of the 20 year lease of Hangar 6?

[CCR]

Was just listening to MOL on the Last Word on TodayFM. The solution really seems to be that Aer Lingus be encouraged to switch hangars and have a new large hangar built for them at Dublin as it will be another 8 years before they can do heavy maintenance in house as their French contract expires then. Plenty of time to build another hangar and walk away from H6 at a nice profit.
Aer Lingus do have a duty to Ireland and the creation of jobs here as they are part owned by the government and the Irish taxpayer:ugh:

[CCR]

MOL was also on Newstalk just now with George Hook. Again, the guy seemed very reasonable, very convincing.. If the Govt fails to provide a solution to this, Mary Coughlan should resign or be sacked!

[racedo]

8 Years !!!!!!!

€2 million plus a year until EI can use it properly as intended.

[CamelhAir]

This is the world of business. Ryanair are asking a competitor to jump to help them gain a competative advantage. Why would any business do that?
Would ryanair do same to facilitate anyone else? No, didn't think so.
Aer Lingus are not a charity.

[Lord Lardy]

This is the world of business.


Exactly. Personally I would have a problem with this if no other options were available. It's quite clear that there are two other suitable hangers available to Ryanair to accomodate these jobs with the option of building this new hanger in the future. Unless Ryanair change their approach or Aer Lingus are bought out of their lease the story is over.

Ryanair themselves have published a copy of a Hanger lease (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/o-leary-invites-tanaiste-to-meet-on-300-jobs)they have with the DAA themselves. It appears that even if the DAA wanted to break the lease the minimum notice period is 12 months along with providing relocation to a bulding of similar size.

[akerosid]

"The solution really seems to be that Aer Lingus be encouraged to switch hangars and have a new large hangar built for them at Dublin as it will be another 8 years before they can do heavy maintenance in house as their French contract expires then. Plenty of time to build another hangar and walk away from H6 at a nice profit."

Or why not just let FR build a new hangar and leave EI alone. Why does it HAVE to be H6; has FR actually explained why the other hangars are not suitable for its needs?

This evening, FR has come out with its usual tact and diplomacy, accusing Brian Cowen of four lies:

Markets News Afternoon: Ryanair's O'Leary accuses Cowen of lying as truth behind Dublin Airport saga remains unclear; Shares rise in Europe and US (http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1019067.shtml)

Oh, this will really encourage an amicable solution!

[Sober Lark]

If they were given the green light tomorrow Ryanair would envisage employing persons (not all 250-300 at once mind) this Aug or Sep. The required notice to the licensee would expire 5 months later. Could they not use one or more of the other adjacent vacant hangers in that intervening period?

[CCR]

According to MOL on the radio this evening, Ryanair is Europe's largest airline and it needs H6 to accommodate 5 or 6 737's in heavy maintenance at a time in the winter period. I think that Ryanair, Aer Lingus and the Govt can gain from a solution to this. Hand over H6 to Ryanair, Aer Lingus make a profit being bought out of the lease and have ample time to build another large hangar at Dublin (for which they don't need to use until 8 years time).
The Govt gains by having 300 more taxpayers, 300 less struggling families on the dole and the maintenance of this high tech skillset in Ireland.
Aer Lingus is after all majority owned by the Irish taxpayer and Ryanair.

[Lord Lardy]

Aer Lingus is after all majority owned by the Irish taxpayer and Ryanair.


Whilst in theory everything you say would make sense, Aer Lingus is now a plc and not a state owned airline anymore. It may have shareholders in the Government and Ryanair but it also 45% owned by other parties. Aer Lingus are generally staying quiet on this and so they should be. Right now they are the legal tenants of the hanger. It is not for them to comment as they can't be moved unless their lease is challenged in the courts. If the DAA exercise the clause in removing them they could potentially be sitting on a gold mine. They will then have 12 months to move and that's after the legal wrangling takes place. They can also enforce the clause in insisting they move to a Hanger of similar size to be built by the DAA. This will delay things even further. The board of Aer Lingus won't bow to pressure from Ryanair to move without a significant financial payoff from some party, and nor should they. I would expect the same if the situation was reversed and Ryanair were occupying it. They are a business not a charity and by moving at the present time without an incentive will do nothing to help their financial position. They did not create the problem.

As I have said before the answer to a solution in all this would be if the Ryanair shareholding in Aer Lingus was put up for sale in exchange for the Hanger I believe the Mangagment in Aer Lingus would as Noel Edmunds would say 'DEAL'. Michael Cawley of Ryanair at a recent meeting said that the shares are for sale only no-one will buy them. The Government now have an opportunity to broker a deal through these means. O Leary has gone on record many times as saying Aer Lingus is a basket case with no future and will go under. He could now get some return for his shareholders on what so far has been a disastrous investment along with getting the Hanger he wants for his own needs. It would certainly test how serious he is on both counts. Hardly likely to happen but a deal breaker and compromise all the same. All parties would walk away happy.

[Tooloose]

I suspect that the reason why MOL is determined to have Hanger 6 and no other hanger has less to do with the hanger inself than with the large amount of office accommodation attached to it. When the Ryanair HQ building was erected in 1991, MOL persuaded Aer Rianta (as the DAA was then) to provide the land rent free for twenty years. So, at the end of this year, FR will have to start paying rent to the DAA for the land on which their HQ stands. Obvoiusly, this would not sit well with the pay for nothing philosophy of MOL. When he realised that he had missed a glorious opportunity to avoid paying this rent and leaving the DAA with a building for which they have no use and no likely tenants he set about using the unfortunate redundant SRT workers as hostages to pressurise the Govt., the DAA, the IDA, Aer Lingus and the opposition parties into handing Hanger 6 over to him and providing him with a new free HQ building. It has more accommodation than his Present HQ. He missed the boat last year but his current campaign is very well planned and orchestrated using all his usual mouthpieces such as the Sindo/Indo and the "aviation expert" JG of B...... Stockbrokers. If he gets it he may very well employ 300 ex-SRT engineers but it will not be long before the blackmail starts again and he he is threatening to move all the work to some lower cost overseas alternative unless the govt. and the DAA give him the devil and all. And it should not be forgotten that Aer Lingus has already employed a large number of ex-SRT engineers for its new Line Maintenance Operation.

[mini]

"I suspect that the reason why MOL is determined to have Hanger 6 and no other hanger has less to do with the hanger inself than with the large amount of office accommodation attached to it. When the Ryanair HQ building was erected in 1991, MOL persuaded Aer Rianta (as the DAA was then) to provide the land rent free for twenty years. So, at the end of this year, FR will have to start paying rent to the DAA for the land on which their HQ stands. Obvoiusly, this would not sit well with the pay for nothing philosophy of MOL. When he realised that he had missed a glorious opportunity to avoid paying this rent and leaving the DAA with a building for which they have no use and no likely tenants he set about using the unfortunate redundant SRT workers as hostages to pressurise the Govt., the DAA, the IDA, Aer Lingus and the opposition parties into handing Hanger 6 over to him and providing him with a new free HQ building. It has more accommodation than his Present HQ. He missed the boat last year but his current campaign is very well planned and orchestrated using all his usual mouthpieces such as the Sindo/Indo and the "aviation expert" JG of B...... Stockbrokers. If he gets it he may very well employ 300 ex-SRT engineers but it will not be long before the blackmail starts again and he he is threatening to move all the work to some lower cost overseas alternative unless the govt. and the DAA give him the devil and all. And it should not be forgotten that Aer Lingus has already employed a large number of ex-SRT engineers for its new Line Maintenance Operation."

At last, a viable theory. This whole story had me wondering from the start as to what MOL/FR were really after. Listening to the various radio interviews, MOL seemed to come unstuck on the issue of being offered a new build hangar vs H6, the above explanation would cast some light on the possible reasons for this.

In fairness, he picked the weakest link in targeting the Gov. 2IC. (lovely person but waaay out of her ability zone) That the opposition rowed in is no suprise but I'm suprised the Unions weren't a bit more savvy before they offered support on his behalf - inquiring about T&C in advance of pitching in might not have been a bad move...

Anyway, won't happen, FR will move their MX somewhere that will subsidise it, causing the max political/DAA damage they can in the meantime.

Really tough on the guys that had their hopes raised (blame FR on raising a never possible scenario) but probably the best outcome in terms of long term investment integrity.

IMHO :ok:

[EISNN]

OK, if that is correct info can you ask your informant where the A330's were being (line) maintained before the date of commencement of the 20 year lease of Hangar 6?

EI have an A330 size hangar in SNN which is used nearly every day. But we are all only too aware that EI want out of all A330 operations in SNN so the requirement for a large enough hangar in DUB to carry out their A330 maintenance. Hangar 6 is the only one in DUB large enough.

C check maintenance for EI A330's is currently being carried out near Dinard in Brittany, France.

It seems to me that MOL is throwing his toys outta the cot for the laugh. There's no true reason for FR to have H6 when there are more than enough other vacant hangars around in DUB. That aside he was asked did he want it back in November and he declined the opportunity. EI were asked in December and they took it. So I reckon it's more a case of MOL not using his noggin' and doing what EI are rumoured to be doing with it. (transfer their hq offices to there as well)

[Sober Lark]

Who is the minister for empty buildings anyway?

Lets imagine in addition to creating jobs the man really wants Hangar 6 as a low cost terminal. Help me understand what's the problem with that?

[apaddyinuk]

I really dont think any of this has to do with undermining EI, undermining the DAA, the best use of Hanger 6 etc etc etc. Its all about MOL drumming up more support from the ignorant masses to make the government look like incompetant idiots at a time when the public already are weary of them and sure if the DAA, EI and any other organisation can be involved for the sake of it so be it...that is the MOL way!

Now a little birdy tells me he is more pissed of that Aer Lingus out bid him for hanger 6 hence he is now having his little hissy fit!

[Bearcat]

Its all about MOL drumming up more support from the ignorant masses to make the government look like incompetant idiots at a time when the public already are weary of them and sure if the DAA, EI and any other organisation can be involved for the sake of it so be it...that is the MOL way!


could'nt agree more...think he's fed up with coughlan the minister of no jobs plus all the other angles. Likwise did I see the bold Michael come out of govt buildings in white runners, jeans and a blazer? The runners thing is hilarious....the man does'nt give a rats how he presents himself but has them all in govt running for cover.....I'm delighted to see him sticking the knife in.

[Seljuk22]

Cimber Sterling will start 4 weekly flights to Billund with CRJ-200 from 31st March.

[CamelhAir]

Lets imagine in addition to creating jobs the man really wants Hangar 6 as a low cost terminal. Help me understand what's the problem with that?

Another firm, who happens to be his main competitor, has a legally binding lease to the building. They are not interested in vacating it. So game over.
What's so difficult to understand? This is the world of business.
I fancy your house, it'd be more suitable for me and I want it alone. But you don't want to sell to me. Will I go to the government to force you?
The pikeys position is idiotic and he knows it. The media and public are regrettably not so clued in.

You might also like to remember that most ryanair staff in Ireland are not Irish and pay very little income tax, so ryanair jobs make little difference to the dole queues and contribute tiny amounts only to the exchequer.

[Sober Lark]

Business? Yes Aer Lingus are in the red. They lease a hangar which they leave empty while their aircraft are serviced in France. Selling the lease should be part of EI's cost saving plan.

The only reason others have to block it is because if Ryanair gets their low cost terminal then it may have a negative impact on competition - the consequences of being successful. Crazy stuff!

By the way, how many do Ryanair actually employ in Ireland?

[MCDU2]

Actually we are in a shade of black allegedly.

You clearly need to get out and do some more spotting. When I went into work last there was a 330 and a 321 parked up in hanger 6. Contrary to popular belief not all of the maintenance is done in Dinard. Watch this space for news that it might be brought back in house.

We have only had the thing for the guts of a month so no doubt the builders/sparkies etc will be going through the place getting it all geared up for the big move that will see all of flight operations consolidated under one roof. Hence the need for the hanger in the first place.

[bia botal]

jes it would be some laugh if aer lingus converted it into a low cost terminal.............................

[ayroplain]

News : RYANAIR RELEASES WRITTEN PROOF OF ITS PLANS TO USE HANGAR 6 FOR? (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-s-proof-of-its-maintenance-only-plan-for-hangar-6)

I think this confirms my interpretation (earlier in this thread) of what went on here :)

[MarkD]

How will Fingal feel about being done out of 350k/pa at MOL's behest?

[colegate]

Ireland has two main airlines. RYR is one of the most successful airlines in the world, it carries more international pax than any other airline, it is profoundly profitable, it has massive cash balances, it carries more pax than any other European airline. EIN staggers from crisis to crisis and it is currently in crisis. RYR needs more maintenance capacity as it moves into heavy checks for the first time. DUB is one choice and there is virtually unused capacity there. So why not try and use it and thereby create jobs for people who have been made redundant. It is a no-brainer. Of course the Irish govt should facilitate this plan. It will help EIN. Ireland has a few days before RYR decide to put that work elsewhere. It is crazy for Cowen to oppose this plan which will create Irish wealth

[potkettleblack]

Do you honestly believe everything that you read in the papers.? You are incredibly naive if that is so. How many jobs do you really think MOL was going to create, if any? He said "UP" to 300 in the letters posted earlier in the week. Well 1 job is up to 300 in my books. He always has an ulterior motive you can be assured of that.

Remember he was going to "create" 1000 jobs when he got his hands on Aer Lingus last time around. Notice he didn't say anything about the 3-4,000 job losses though.

[Just a spotter]

Well, it would seem that the speculation on this forum that FR wanted the attached office space on Hanger 6 as much as anything else was spot on.

From today's Irish Independent

O'Leary wants Hangar 6 to become his new HQ - Irish, Business - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/oleary-wants-hangar-6-to-become-his-new-hq-2070491.html)

JAS

[Sober Lark]

For balance please find copy of letter in today's Irish Times below.

Madam, – Michael O’Leary’s use of the lives and job prospects of 300 aircraft engineers at Dublin Airport as pawns in another of his petulant and high-profile attacks on the DAA and the Government is a gross insult to the people involved. Further, his attempt to force the Government to tortuously interfere with Aer Lingus’s lease of Hangar 6 is outrageous.
Hangar 6 is the only hangar at Dublin Airport capable of accommodating more than one of the large wide-body Airbus A330 aircraft that Aer Lingus uses for its transatlantic services. Maintenance of these aircraft has been undertaken in Hangar 6 on behalf of Aer Lingus by SRT and predecessor companies for more than 10 years. Following the departure of SRT last year, Aer Lingus moved to protect its A330 maintenance capability by employing 96 staff from SRT and entering into a 20 year lease of Hangar 6. There are no circumstances under which this lease can be broken in order to provide the hangar to a third party.
Aer Lingus currently employs 230 maintenance employees, who are now engaged in maintenance work in Hangar 6. Aer Lingus’s fleet, its operations and the jobs of its 3,000 employees all depend on this work being completed regularly. Aer Lingus expects that the level of maintenance at Dublin will continue at least at the present level, and may increase as conditions in the airline industry improve. These are real, well-paid jobs that will continue for the foreseeable future.
Every night, Aer Lingus has an average of more than three aircraft in Hangar 6 for routine and unscheduled maintenance, and can have as many as six in the hangar at any one time. Most of this work takes place outside daylight hours.
There are five other hangars at Dublin Airport, all of which are suitable for maintenance of the smaller narrow body aircraft used by Ryanair.
If Mr O’Leary is truly interested in establishing an aircraft maintenance facility at Dublin Airport – and of actually hiring 300 people here – then he will not be prevented from doing so by a lack of hangar space. But his refusal to act in a normal commercial manner and to deal on the issue with the DAA (with which he interacts on a daily basis), and his attempts to overturn a legally binding contract between the DAA and Aer Lingus, all suggest that he is merely engaged in another of his quixotic attacks on those who won’t bow to his every whim.
The Government, the IDA, the DAA and Aer Lingus have offered full support in developing a maintenance facility at Dublin Airport, but Mr O’Leary has refused to engage unless he can have something that doesn’t belong to him – another child’s toy. He shows no regard for the 300 people who were led to believe that they might have job opportunities at this purported facility nor for the 230 people who are already employed by Aer Lingus in Hangar 6.
These people are being used as pawns in some twisted game that would appear to have little to do with jobs or aircraft maintenance. – Yours, etc,
COLM BARRINGTON,
Chairman,
Aer Lingus,
Dublin Airport,
Co Dublin.

[Skipness One Echo]

RYR needs more maintenance capacity as it moves into heavy checks for the first time.

Really? Thought they sold the fleet on before they got into that territory. I know that they have re-sprayed some of the older airframes into the new colours during planned mainteneance but that's about the limit I think....

[vkid]

This hangar 6 story may not be over yet..
(http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ryanair-made-836413m-offer-for-hangar-months-before-rival-2071911.html)

Could get very interesting next week.

[racedo]

Aer Lingus to rent huge Dublin airport hangar - The Irish Times - Wed, Jan 06, 2010 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0106/1224261733567.html)

Interesting that Aer Lingus appears to be paying €2.25 Million a year on a hangar that SRT were paying €200k.

As people appear to be suggesting Aer Lingus should take the maintenance back in house and break their existing contract one has to wonder how much they would end paying in break clauses.

For an airline that has blown in excess of €250 million in shareholders cash in 2009 it seems to be spending money like a nautical man after imbibing too much rum.

[Copenhagen]

Racedo - a little knowledge here is a dangerous thing... The DAA bought the hangar from SR technics, so they owned the hangar, perhaps that rent figure was for something else.

Ive never seen that 200k figure mentioned elsewhere.

It seems that EI offered more than FR for the Hangar. In any other part of the world, that means the highest bidder wins. For FR not to even talk to the DAA about leasing the space demonstrates to me that their bid was not enough, and were hoping that someone else would step in and pay the difference in subsidies.

Can the Irish taxpayer afford many more subsidies?

[racedo]

Copenhagen

DAA always owned the Hanger, they bought back the lease which they could have reacquired at any time under the terms of the lease,

The figure of €2.25 M per year is what is currently being quoted by the property and leasing trade magazines as value of the deal and this was well before this controvery even started. They have no agenda only reporting of deals.

There is nothing I have read that is suggesting Aer Lingus is paying €200k per year but happy to be proved otherwise,

The involvement of IDA the job creation and inward investment body in Ireland makes a lot of sense as ultimately Ireland was competing for the 500 jobs that the facility was going to offer so why not use the people who make it happen.

DAA as shown by its investment :ugh::ugh::ugh:strategy in Cork and Dublin airports in wasting hundreds of millions of Euros is not exactly known for its grasp of reality.

Lets face it why would anybody allow an airport carrying 3 million people a year spend €200 million on investment (Cork) of €1.1 Billion on a 20 million people a year airport (Dublin).

This has all the makings of a political deal to keep FR out.

As for higgest bidder getting the prize well if I have 2 bidders I push to get them to compete not do it on the quiet.

[ayroplain]

Lest there still be any doubters among you.
Tanaiste saw Ryanair deal long before SRT closed - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tanaiste-saw-ryanair-deal-long-before-srt-closed-2072821.html)

[ayroplain]

There was an interesting discussion on the Hangar 6 topic on the Marian Finucane Show on RTE this morning (Marian herself was not on duty with John Murray taking over). Among the panellists was Colm Barrington of EI.

To listen to this goto:
RTÉ.ie Radio1: Marian Finucane (http://www.rte.ie/radio1/marianfinucane/)

Click on Latest Show.

When the Player starts fast forward to about 33.10 or a bit earlier if you want to hear more about the EI flight from Tenerife last night that caused a scare with a number of unwell passengers onboard (illness nothing to do with EI I hasten to add).

[Just a spotter]

The figure of €2.25 M per year is what is currently being quoted by the property and leasing trade magazines as value of the deal and this was well before this controvery even started. They have no agenda only reporting of deals.@racedo, like your goodself, I have no inside knowledge of the details of the EI and DAA agreement, nor do I have any affiliation or axe to grind with any of the parties in this current sub plot to the implosion of the Irish economy ... however just one minor correction, the Irish Times article you reference merely speculates on the value of the deal

it is likely to be in the region of €2.25 million per annum, thus equating to about €107 per sq m (€10 per sq ft).it is not making an authoritative statement as to the amount.

And we all know just how wildly wide of the reality mark speculation on property prices/rents have been in Ireland over the last few years, with the Times being one of the wildest 'hypiest' cheer leaders of them all!

JAS

[ayroplain]

...and the Irish Times got it in one. I'm impressed.
Hangar 6 saga reveals flaw at heart of State's aviation policy - The Irish Times - Mon, Feb 22, 2010 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0222/1224264936940.html)

[Noxegon]

Yes, I think that's very likely to be honest. If I worked for the DAA at this stage I'd be certain to give FR no special treatment whatsoever - they'd be paying the full published rates for everything.

[potkettleblack]

Airport companies like the DAA are always going to be run poorly. There is no incentive for them to do otherwise as they sit on a monopoly. Mind you they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Take the DAA as an example. At the moment a new runway is off the agenda. Logic would say that in the length of time it would take to build the runway that passenger demand would have returned to such levels to ensure its uptake. But try convincing the green army of this and the politicians to spend the money now though. In the current climate it would probably be cheaper to build it now. But no matter. Better to build it when the demand has actually arrived, wait 5 years for it to be built and the demand to have waned as we enter into the next crisis that will hit the industry:)

[ayroplain]

Have just finished watching the live broadcast from the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport that lasted 3 hours. Both MOL and Mr. Mueller got severe grillings from the committee over more than two hours but, unfortunately, the DAA then got away with about ten minutes of nothing, probably because the committee were exhausted by then.
I always assumed that the chairman of such a committee would be neutral but this chairman came over very strongly from the beginning as being anti-Ryanair or, at best, anti-MOL.
Maybe my mind was gone by a certain stage of the proceedings but I'm sure I heard Mr. Mueller at one point agree that Aer Lingus is, in effect, leasing Hanger 6 from........Aer Lingus, which brought much laughter around the room.
I think the media will have a field day tomorrow.

[mini]

Why doesn't FR target Africa for growth?

They are experienced in operating between "less than optimal" bases
They offer cheap tickets
Pax will willingly carry their own baggage
They have plenty of cash to smooth out "issues" :E

In fairness, MOL has an attitude like an MDC paid up member in Zim in terms of "oh that's nice, I'll have that"...

My message to MOL? you are not fooling me, what happens to the 300 jobs when you (eventually) get to convert the maintenance facility to a terminal? eh?

I admire your acumen, but sometimes you can be really clumsy.

Hats off for spotting the 2 i/c weakness, national disgrace IMHO.

[Sober Lark]

What ever happened to Baldonnell or Gigginstown options?

[akerosid]

The bottom line is that approaches to Baldonnell overly some of the most closely fought and populous constituencies in Dublin - e.g. Dublin South. No party wants to upset these, so I doubt we will see any developments here. It's a pity, because it could have benefited the Air Corps.

[potkettleblack]

Mini,

Can you really see MOL passing out brown envelopes to get overfly/landing rights? He wants to pay nought not dish out the cash to some tyrannical leader.

[en2r]

Maybe my mind was gone by a certain stage of the proceedings but I'm sure I heard Mr. Mueller at one point agree that Aer Lingus is, in effect, leasing Hanger 6 from........Aer Lingus, which brought much laughter around the room.

No, you're correct. The structure of the leases is quite complex. Basically the DAA own Hanger 6, they lease it to First Active, who lease it to Aer Lingus, who leased it to SRT. This is all harking back to when SRT (or Team Aer Lingus as it was then) was part of Aer Lingus. The DAA bought out SRT's lease (i.e. took over the lease) and then leased it back to Aer Lingus.
As far as I know Aer Lingus have a say in who the hanger is leased to by virtue of the fact that they are essentially the DAA's landlord (although the DAA are the ultimate landlord, meaning that Aer Lingus could have vetoed the deal if the DAA had leased the hanger to Ryanair.

[dublindispatch]

Any way less of the FR/EI spat back to the substance of this thread, may be old news but i read that DUB and GVA airport each lost the most routes of any airports in Europe in 2009. Lets hope things get better this year

[EC-ILS]

Well weve lost TAT now, but gained BLL and BBU, waiting on confirmationfrom CY about LCA.

[dublindispatch]

Any one any news or ideas as to what the ABR Charter Airline is that will be based in Dub 2010 is? Have heard it is one 737 Pax, no idea of version. Any ideas?

[Airbus321-200]

It's a Europe Airpost 737-300 EI-STA operated by air contractors (ACL) as ACL own Europe Airpost. I think it's in SNN at the minute getting some work done and a new paint job! :ok:

[EC-ILS]

Will we be handling them Dublin?

[dublindispatch]

And another thing whats all these wild rumours from DAA staff about Air India of all airlines?? Tech stops across the pond?? Or the start of the vultures circling above waiting to pick over the traffic rights to the states of Aer Lingus, btw you could also Etihad into that rumour pot. 16 flights a week by next year apperantly thru Dublin, would would the aviation industry be without a good or even a bad rumour!!

[Betablockeruk]

Europe Airpost 737-300 EI-STA

Been in Air Livery, Manchester. ex G-THOG. Looks to be departing Weds 10th.

[LPFR]

Anyone knows how many aircrafts will FR base at DUB during the summer and how many routes they will operate? I've heard there's gonna be a lot of changes in their timetable from DUB this summer.

[akerosid]

Incident involving CO 757 today ...

Incident: Continental B752 near Dublin on Mar 18th 2010, pressurization problems (http://avherald.com/h?article=428d2c90&opt=1)

Sounded like an uncomfortable ride - aborted approach to 10, landing (fast) on 16.

Wind 180-190/20-22 knots.

[EC-ILS]

It flew past my window on finals for 16 today, was wondering why it was so late, DAA webiste didnt show any significant delay so this explains it.

The approach didnt look any fater than any of the other aircraft going by.

[akerosid]

Looks like this one is gathering some pace:

Air India considers Terminal 2 as hub for US flights - Irish, Business - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/air-india-considers-terminal-2-as-hub-for-us-flights-2104222.html)

Let's hope it works; all stops pulled out (so to speak!). If Dempsey does one useful thing during his tenure as Transport minister, backing this all the way would be it.

[Airbus321-200]

Does anyone know if Palmair are doing charters from DUB?

they are selling flights from BOH to DUB on their website.

[dublindispatch]

I wonder how things will work for the Thompson Airways programme ex-DUB this summer with the news that Skyservice has just collapsed. TOM where to have used a SKyservice A320 this Summer for there programme instead of the bucket of scrap that was CGTBB!!


Dublindispatch. Please stop creating a new thread each time you want to post. This one will do nicely.

[Airbus321-200]

Maybe Monarch could fill the gap but its very last minute so most good carriers are already booked up.

Probably lotus air or someone.

[Stevek]

I can't say how true this is but I've heard that Pier B could be closing come November. All shops that wish to move from Pier B will now be located on the street. DAA recently boarded up some of their shops as they finished selling crystalware and electronics.

[dublinaviator]

I can't say how true this is but I've heard that Pier B could be closing come November. All shops that wish to move from Pier B will now be located on the street. DAA recently boarded up some of their shops as they finished selling crystalware and electronics

Well if the DAA decide to go ahead as planned, they'll be extending Pier B which will be complete in late 2011 - http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/media-centre/presentations-speeches/PressFinal1.pdf

[Cyrano]

Well if the DAA decide to go ahead as planned, they'll be extending Pier B which will be complete in late 2011 - http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/media-centre/presentations-speeches/PressFinal1.pdf

This presentation dates from September 2005. I think it's fair to say that plans (and traffic forecasts, and financial positions) have changed quite considerably since then. :rolleyes:

[Just a spotter]

I read somewhere that there are "structural problems" with the current Pier B that require work which will necessitate it being closed to the public. So, it is possible that post the opening of T2 and its associated gates that the area will be closed for refurb/extension.

Anyway, from the looks of the last page of the 2005 DAA plan, it seems they already factored in a reduction in traffic. There are fewer aircraft depicted being catered for in the 2015 version of the airport than in the 2005 one. Maybe the DAA saw the recession before everyone else!

JAS

[Stevek]

That plan has definitely been put on hold along with the second runway. With capacity falling even more dramatically than last year I highly doubt there will be any more expansion for the foreseeable future.

To add more fuel to this, it'd seems Aer Lingus's Chief Executive Christoph Mueller said that some of the older facilities in T1 will be closed with the opening of T2. Link (http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/player.html?20100330,2727615,2727622,real,209) to that interview.

Also I have been reminded that the prefabs at Pier D were suppose to be removed with the opening of T2. Anyone have any information on this?

[darkskies]

Currently these gates are closed and will have to be removed once Pier E opens (planning condition)

[darkskies]

Pier B (or should I say Gates 300+) will stay open. DAA getting out of direct sales of electronics.....

[dublindispatch]

Is not Currys or Dixons not meant to have done a deal with the daa?

[CallBell]

From the hoarding thats gone up around the old electronics sales area across from Butlers Cafe, it looks to be Dixons Travel that will take over the electronics sales in the airport.

[Airbus321-200]

Are you sure TCX is doing the palma??

Kefelonia is a mistake on the monarch website it's supposed to be heraklion.

Thomas cook own Panorama, Sunworld and direct holidays so all TCX and MON flights are bookable through them.

[danielmellor]

Air Contractors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Contractors) Zakynthos [begins 28 May; seasonal]

:eek::eek::eek::eek: On The ATRs?

[Airbus321-200]

ZTH on Air contractors is the Europe Airpost 737 the have in DUB EI-STA.

Air Contractors (ACL) own Europe Airpost and have set up a base here.

[EIPCW]

Well as someone who works for a handling agent in Dublin, I would take a lot of that with a pinch of salt as I know that at least 4 or 5 of the charter airlines listed will not have any programme through Dublin this summer, but on the plus side I do see that Freebird,Air Italy,AEU,and FB are missing from the list.

I think that a lot of the JKK destinations listed are one offs for the Spanish Student Charter Programme that operates every year.

[EIPCW]

A B737 comes in @ 1600 from BOH with pax on a Sat then operates a charter to I think FAO and then does a FUE kinda area on the SUN am back again pops down to PMI back again and then operates as a pax flight back to BOH around 0100 on the Monday morning.

The BOH-DUB-BOH flights are for sale on the Palmair website, but I havent a baldy notion who the tour operator is ex-Dub, or what the booked loads will be like.

Brave pax that are going to come over on the SAT and go back on the MON am. A single a/c charter operation, I can only guess what time the BOH sector will leave DUB on the monday morning!! But still its only £19.00 each way or sum such thing, great for a hen night or stag night in Dub.

[EC-ILS]

Most if not all the JKK charters will be bringing Spanish students, they will operate a couplde of times at the start and end of the summer.

[dublindispatch]

I hear that they are back but how long the programme is I have no idea.

[DannyKelly22]

if Air India goes ahead are they making it into a Scizzor Hub? i really hope it does go ahead. will eventually give us some long haul flights to put out CBP to use on. any ideas on when the announcement is expected regarding the situation.

[Papa2Charlie]

I'm sure Fraport (operators of Frankfurt) will be putting together some other offers for Air India to maintain the hub in FRA so we'll need to wait and see what happens on this issue.

[Thunderbirdsix]

Heard on RTE over the weekend that Dublin Airport are to cancel all charges for aircraft that were grounded at the Airport during the recent ash crisis. Any other Airport doing this seems a good idea when you think of the millions the airlines have lost due to cancelled flights.

They also cancelled parking charges for passengers whose cars were parked after their due back date.

[AircraftOperations]

I would have been surprised if they weren't doing this.

I believe a lot of other airports have done this, without going to the press and boasting about it.

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Big Whoop.

Let's see the bastards cancel the APD tax.

[call100]

Never mind the airlines....The airports lost millions as well. Something that is forgotten all too frequently..

[EIPCW]

Any more news/updates on the Air India alleged moving too Dublin or for that matter any one else coming to Dublin based on all the incentives that are on the table for new carriers.

[gaelgeoir]

Wrong "bastards". The DAA doesn't impose the APD tax- only governments can levy taxes.

[Charlie Roy]

Any other Airport doing this

I don't know, but Amsterdam Schipol has been refunding car parking charges to travellers.

[Sober Lark]

We can't avoid such a tax but one could charge PAX an APD handling fee and make some form of profit on it or at least make it cost neutral.

[BOU_PAX]

BOH didn't charge for any cars parked on-site that were delayed nor did the hotel just outside of LHR that my car spent an extra 8 days at... :D

Think it was pretty much standard at all airports TBH

[Cymmon]

Maybe we can stop the other "bastards" from charging to check in (using our own time, ink, paper and internet usage), carrying anything above a pen on board (how many pens for the kg limit?), stupid money for (so called) food and drink, possibly using a toilet?

[EIPCW]

Maybe the time mite be fast approaching that the first LCC that starts the crawl back up the ladder to a Full service carrier mite be now!!

The fisrt airline that charges a resonable fare that includes all your charges or at least breaks the total fare down to easy opt out rather than opt in portions or even just throws in a free cuppa and bickey mite just win over enough passengers to do quite well

[Droghwings]

I see Ryanair are cancelling the Dublin - Prague route at the end of the Summer timetable. Maybe Czech Airlines might consider coming back on the route. I used them several times in the past to connect to destinations in the east, mainly Tel Aviv. They are a good airline and Prague is an easy airport to connect through.

[EIPCW]

Maybe more likely Wizzair or SmartWings for that or just leave EI too plod along during the winter alone!!

[Sober Lark]

Any more news/updates on the Air India alleged moving too Dublin or for that matter any one else coming to Dublin based on all the incentives that are on the table for new carriers.

You mean the 2637m incentive EIPCW? Methinks you might get the odd vodka burner or two as they love that sort of incentive.

[Alsacienne]

And having lost BSL-DUB, FR have now cancelled FKB-DUB, so it'll be puddle-jumping via STN from now on for all of us in Dreieckland (Alsace/BadenWurttemburg/Switzerland).

[EC-ILS]

Cant see OK coming back, they carried few passengers DUB-PRG only, you would need FR and some others to drop RIX, VNO, OTP etc for OK to make money.

[EIPCW]

Air Baltic seem to have the eastern european transfer market more or less to themselves now with the RIX flights and its arrival time into RIX means that you arrive for all the first wave departures ex RIX, including i am told ATH and TLV transfer pax.

[Kavs8]

CSA are back on the PRG route guys:ok: every Saturday from May 23rd 2010. From only! 61.13 there bound to draw some czechs on the route:)

[EIPCW]

thats a positioning flight infrom prg on a sat morning arr in dub at some go awfull time and goes back out to prg in the wee small hours of the morning on a monday subject to it not being delayed doing charter flights all weekend.

the irish times had an add for 5nte holdays to prg las summer using this, very resonableprices but awfull timings

[Charlie Roy]

CSA are back on the PRG route guys every Saturday from May 23rd 2010.

Yes this is true, except for the schedule (every Saturday), it's not loaded yet.

[Just a spotter]

News reports today suggest EI haven't decided on whether to relocate check-in to T2 when it opens in November.

Aer Lingus: 'No decision' on moving operations to T2 | BreakingNews.ie (http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/aer-lingus-no-decision-on-moving-operations-to-t2-455667.html)

Maybe they're just playing "hard ball" on fees, maybe they're happy to say in the old-new terminal (now T1) or maybe they just want to do the press release in their own time.

JAS

[Kavs8]

Yes it is on the booking schedule! i wouldnt have commented otherwise:=

[EI Premier]

Maybe they're just playing "hard ball" on fees, maybe they're happy to say in the old-new terminal (now T1) or maybe they just want to do the press release in their own time.

JAS That's exactly what's happening in my opinion. Aer Lingus have significant leverage at DUB and with CM's astute approach, they will be trying to get a 'bigger bang for the buck' so to speak.

Aer Lingus would be the optimum flagship carrier to have located in T2 also, considering the prestige attached to them.

I wonder why no significant reparations have been made to the Aer Lingus Business Class check-in desk area in the last while, or to the Gold Circle lounge either ;)

EI Premier

[Kavs8]

Hopefully Aer Lingus will re-located to T2 the last thing any1 wants is a 600m terminal laying ideal with only confirmed .... AA, CO,DL,ET,US operating to it.

[Seljuk22]

Just 19 mln passengers this year?
Dublin Airport passenger traffic 'could fall by 1.5m' - Irish, Business - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dublin-airport-passenger-traffic-could-fall-by-15m-2155086.html)

[Noxegon]

Live departures on DUB this morning is showing

08:45 Mumbai (Air India AI126)
09:15 Delhi (Air India AI120)
09:30 Chicago (Air India AI127)

All cancelled.

[Charlie Roy]

Live departures on DUB this morning is showing

Wow! Exciting times :ok:

[positive]

From the independent this morning

Meanwhile, 550,000 fewer passengers travelled through Dublin Airport last month.

Amid the ash chaos, some 1.19 million passengers passed through Dublin Airport in April, compared with 1.74 million in the same month last year.

The country's main airports -- Dublin, Shannon and Cork -- were already down one-in-six passengers in the first three months of this year.

Some 5.1 million passengers travelled in and out of Dublin Airport in the first four months of this year, compared with 6.3 million over the same period last year.

Looks like the DAA are looking at another massive drop in numbers at Dublin again!!!!

[dublindispatch]

Does anybody want to use the white elephant? I mean T2.

[positive]

Does anybody want to use the white elephant? I mean T2.

Might be a little too harsh remember T2 is going to be around for the next 20/30 years it wasn't so long ago there was uproar over the cramped facilities at Dublin airport.Hopefully the passenger figures will start to improve towards the end of the year into next year.

[840]

I'm sure EI will end up using it, but will play hard ball over fees in the meantime.

As noted by EI Premier, they've made little investment in the facilities in T1 and that tells its own story. The lounge in Cork is now streets ahead of the one in Dublin, which considering the number of Gold Circle and Premier passengers in Dublin compared to Cork (no Premier whatsoever in Cork), tells its own story.

[Kavs8]

Whats with Air India?? as above there were 3 flights due to depart Cancelled ! diversions?

[Charlie Roy]

Whats with Air India?? as above there were 3 flights due to depart Cancelled ! diversions?

I think it's Dublin Airport having loaded the flights into their IT system, but since they haven't started yet they show up on the departure screens as "Cancelled"...

[EIPCW]

So does that mean "thunderbirds are go" for the Air India???

Is it more than just a rumour now is it a factual rumour based on concrete rumours from well placed sources who definatly know for sure that without a shadow of doubt that all things being equal the flights may start subject to any deals that may be on offer?

Like most things with Dublin when i see the aircraft on the ground with the the ground equipment around them and passengers and cargo being loaded and off loaded then i might believe that this mad cap Air India plan is happening!!

[vkid]

Is it more than just a rumour now is it a factual rumour based on concrete rumours from well placed sources who definatly know for sure that without a shadow of doubt that all things being equal the flights may start subject to any deals that may be on offer?

:D brilliant!

[akerosid]

"Is it more than just a rumour now is it a factual rumour based on concrete rumours from well placed sources who definatly know for sure that without a shadow of doubt that all things being equal the flights may start subject to any deals that may be on offer? "

Sir Humphrey is alive and well!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Whats with Air India?? as above there were 3 flights due to depart Cancelled"

If I were being malicious, I'd say that's quite normal for Air India!

Joking apart, great news for the DAA and DUB if they can swing this. Quite apart from the feather in the DAA's cap, it's an important trade link to one of the fastest growing markets in the world.

[EIPCW]

The plan, according to a well place insider who has heard it from a reliable source who says that he knows for a fact from an un-named contact at Air India, that they do indeed in all probability hope to maybe at some stage soon start these flights, states that the plan as it stands at the moment and is subject to change is as follows:

The various flights leave India arrive in Dublin, deplane the passengers etc and then reload on different aircraft and the same happens with the east bound a/c from the states, in effect as well as tech stops for fuel, DUB becomes in effect a mini hub for Air India.

[EIPCW]

Has anyone heard of any long term predictions for the start of the week regarding the Ash cloud?

Other posts in PPRUNE as stating that Scotland and north of england badly affected MON and TUE?

[bucko]

Current UK Met Office VAAC charts only go as far as 1200z tomorrow, showing no ash affected area over Ireland and UK.
Last update on the IAA website was the 12/05, stating no retrictions in irish airspace until further notice, last ash update on CAA website was 05/05, last update on DFT website was the 10/05 and NATS currently stating no restrictions in UK airspace. These are the official sources and until they actually issue information about restrictions, these sort of rumours are very unhelpful for pax and for airlines alike.

[EIPCW]

I take your point,and I would be the fisrt to quash any rumours but if you check on the IOM thread, it has links too two reports that the UK department of transport have issued advisories too shipping companies that things are to get worse Sunday night Monday and that they should be looking at additional capacity where possible.

[bucko]

If the DFT has issued advisories to shipping companies, I'm sure it would have made it into the greater news media domain by now. I've had a quick search of the DFT website and Sky News and can't find any reference to volcanic ash related disruption other than the last update last Monday. Being really cynical about it, wouldn't the shipping companies have most to gain from supposed ash related flight disruption?

[EI Premier]

Winds are currently Northwesterly aloft towards Ireland, Scotland and the UK through to early on Monday.

Later tomorrow, higher concentration volcanic ash will approach Ireland and Scotland from the Northwest, as shown on the latter frames of the latest VAAC charts:

Met Office: Icelandic volcano - Zoom air ash concentration charts (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2010/volcano/ashconcentration/zoom_ashconcentration.html)

However, winds will have backed into the Southwest during the course of Monday, so although some difficulties may occur for a time during tomorrow, Sunday, these should clear again on Monday if they are to occur and the airspace over Ireland should be clear until at least Wednesday, but probably for longer than that.

[dublindispatch]

Was thinking the same kinda thing, most like disrupt the North Atlantic traffic again for a couple of days.

[Ireland105]

for some reason my last post didnt get posted....I will try one more time :)

Air India will not be operating out of T2 in Dublin Airport. The whole thing is nonsense for a very simple reason - it is simply impossible from an operational perspective with the ultra limited runway length at Dublin Airport.....I am baffled how nobody has picked up on this already ...???:ugh: Can anyone tell me how a fully loaded (passenger and baggage that is) B773ER or B744 can make it from DUB to ORD or Mumbai or Dehli for that matter ? Its simply not possible with a runway length of 2,637m. And dont think AI will give in on baggage allowance, they wont. That doesnt happen with daily scheduled flights from a national carrier. If that was to be an issue, and it is, than they will strike Dublin off the list. Of course, this has already been long done. So why all the talk still ? One simple reason - the government/DAA get the short term benefit of talking it up and make it look like they are actually doing something. Perhaps amidst all this talk another carrier might be fooled into moving into T2, partly sold by the lie that AI will be basing their US bound flights out of Dublin.

We had the same nonsense about a year ago with the so called return of Gulf Air and launch of Hainan Airlines. That was total ****e of course, just like this.

[DannyKelly22]

DUB airport closed from 7pm until at least 9am tomorrow.

[Tom the Tenor]

Ireland 105 - a breath of fresh air. Sees through the cr*p.

[Charlie Roy]

Can anyone tell me how a fully loaded (passenger and baggage that is) B773ER or B744 can make it from DUB to ORD or Mumbai or Delhi for that matter ? Its simply not possible with a runway length of 2,637m.

Air India's A330-200's could manage such distances and runway limitations without any problems (at their maximum take off weights)...

[CallBell]

But would Air India be willing to downsize operations from 773's to A332's just so they could use the runway @ DUB?

[EI Premier]

Aside from the current speculation regarding Air India's use of DUB, heightened by the appearance of several departures on the DUB boards a few days ago - there is some considerable pressure at present upon Air India's long haul operations.

Indeed, there is some speculation that many of their long haul routes may well be axed, as they are contributing to extreme losses, well in excess of US$100 million. During 2009, they posted losses in excess of US$1 Billion.

There is also a risk of Air India being downsized to become a regional carrier in India and losing its government backed national carrier status. In addition, there is significant unrest amongst staff at Air India and in many ways the airline has become somewhat dysfunctional in the past 12 months, with open brawls taking place between crews onboard etc.

In light of the risk of a downsizing of their operations, I wonder are they really the best airline for the DAA to be seeking to attract to DUB?

EI Premier

[Tom the Tenor]

Well, if the cap fits!

[dublindispatch]

I think the DAA would welcome anything with wings that could carry passengers at the moment, no matter how outlandish a scheme or daft an idea. They couldnt be in any more serious a postion regarding passenger numbers if they tried.

If they needed to stick a steam catapult down RWY 28 to get an airplane in the sky they would give it a go.

Desperate times mean daft decssions!!!

So far i have now heard on here, from DAA staff, Airline reps, pilots and guys having a smoke outside the terminal the following airlines ALL meant to be pre-clearing or tech stopping in DUB !!


Czech Airlines

Air Baltic RIX-DUB-JFK-DUB-RIX

Oman Air

Cyprus Airways LCA-DUB-YYZ-DUB-LCA

Air India Everywhere in India-DUB-The states

Singapore Airlines

Aeroflot

Manx2.com

Virgin Atlantic

Arik

Just to name a few i can spell without going on wiki, so really you could pick any one of the above and therorise for years but until the Airline says what its doing, i think in essense we are all taking crap, but very very interesting crap

[EI-BUD]

I am baffled how nobody has picked up on this already ...?

Ireland105, I think that many people commented when the story of Air India using T2 broke first. I remember akerosid mentioning the limitation in the runway length.

It is sad that we will have a truly world class terminal yet our runway has limitations!

If Aer Lingus get after the connections bit ie aiming to offer Dublin as the key cross roads between EU and USA they could attract good business. Dublin will have a great facility both in terminal, and in pre clearance. As well as a respectable pricing policy, these combined with scheduling could deliver good numbers particularly from airport in EU and UK that dont have direct air links to USA.

Eg Leeds/Teesside/Doncaster/Cardiff/Bristol(CO Axing route who is picking up the slick? Daily ATR72 to connect with JFK BOS etc?)/PLymouth/Exeter/SOuthampton/East Midlands/Liverpool/Alicante/Malaga/Faro/Jersey/IOM/Manston?/Derry/Valencia... the list goes on.

I realise EI/RE wont serve all of the above mentioned but if 25 airports could deliver to DUB 25 passgeners each daily that would be enough to fill at least 2 330s and also help sustain routes to west coast and also a good way to support short haul routes that suffer from intense competition with Ryanair.??

I do note that Aer Lingus have been doing a good bit of advertising for UK destinations in the US especially since Aer Lingus regional got underway.

EI-BUD

[Ireland105]

They wont be using the A332 just to accomodate the DAA. This isnt some "Thomas Cook" operation - they have definitive plans and want to find a base that they can drop that plan into, not re-adjust their route operations just to suit the incompetance of the DAA :=

As far as Im concerned, the greatest con of all is that the curtin hasnt been pulled on this one to show it for what it really is, the DAA and the government clearly delighted to feed off this for the next few months - maybe bonus time is due very shortly ?

And yes, as previously mentioned above, T2 is an impressive structure. It looks good and would fit the bill for such operations. But im afraid its a case of having a fantastic toy without batteries. But we see it in every aspect of Irish culture - look at all the housing developments that were built with no shops, schools, general infrastructure etc. The same thing happened with T2 - a marvelous structure, but largely pointless unless the runway was extended or the infamous 2nd runway was built.

For those of you not familiar with Irish corporate culture let me present you with this. The DAA went to the planning authorities and got permission to build a parrallel runway of 3,100m. Before anything started their budgets were slashed. Rather than call a spade a spade as they say and just call it off on financial grounds, the DAA invented a fantasy and said that consultation with other parties such as international airlines etc meant that they needed a runway of 3,600 m long (if this was true, and its not, it also demonstrates their utter incompetence for not getting it right in the first place). So it was back to drawing board. How convenient - so rather than call off the project it was just being revised. Everyone knows though that by the time they go through all the hoops for the new 3,600m runway it will be years down the road (even before construction starts) - probably new government, therefore new directors etc, so what do they care.

Its the same ****e with the Air India saga - smoke and mirrors stuff, it simply doesnt exist.

Welcome to Ireland im afraid.