"Bye", "Cheers", "Have a good weekend"

[Freebird17]

Almost every R/T call before changing frequency seems to have a pleasantry attached these days? All very nice but is it necessary? Is it pleasant? Maybe I have a brain of limited capacity but I prefer not to lose track of relevant information in the midst of all the "cheerios". I find it irritating.

If I was a Chief Pilot, I'd introduce a "No Gratuitous Pleasantries" SOP.

[360BakTrak]

Good point, but as long as pilots leave such pleasantries to the right circumstance I don't have a problem with it. ie, a busy frequency keep it standard but if its dead quiet wheres the harm?

[Brian81]

Hmmm...

Whilst not strictly standard r/t, I have a unwritten system.

if I have co-ordinated your frequency transfer, I will say;
"contact xyz, 123.45. ba-bye"


if I havent, and you're freecalling the next unit I will say;
"freecall abc, 123.45. ba-bye"


If I am sitting next to the person and I slide the flight progress strip to them, I will say;

"contact tower, 123.45."


Im my opinion, (no offence to GA/Pro pilots) it helps distinguish the difference between a end to the unit's service and just the transfer to a different part of the unit. (*does that make sense?)

On the other side of the coin;

Manners cost nothing when it is quiet, but when its busy manners cost seconds. When I stop being polite, pilots hear the change of tone in my voice an expedite the read-back. I feel it may even give pilots a clue about a controllers workload at any particualr time. Remember, just because you cant hear any r/t chatter doesnt mean we're not rushed off our feet.

Bri.

[126,7]

Maybe I have a brain of limited capacity but I prefer not to lose track of relevant information in the midst of all the "cheerios". I find it irritating.

I find it just as irritating. Imagine what a better place this world would be if we had a little less politeness. My goodness, it would probably be pretty damn close to paradise. Politeness....who needs it?

Also, it makes ATC so much safer if we can actually keep that spare capacity in our brains for when we might really need it !!

[rej]

Please tell me this is not a serious thread.

Although I am a supporter of using standard phraseology, the occasional 'good day' or 'bye' does no one any harm and is a lot less unprofessional than other things I have heard and seen in ATC over the years.

A few common courtesies does nobody any harm as long as it is not abused.

Goodnight !

[5milesbaby]

I'll also remember next time to not say thankyou if I ask for something special and you give me your best as thats not standard phraseology either.

Happy Christmas anyone????? :mad:

[ww1]

I agree with 360. If it's the middle of the night five minutes pass between calls, what harm does a "thank you" do?? Of course I would never think of exchanging "g'day"s and "how are the kids"s when the controller's swamped and scrambling to accommodate the incomings, the vector requests, etc, etc.
It simply has to do with plain ol' good judgment.

[apache43]

What would make a person start a thread such as this one? If you can't remember the info whilst offering a salutation maybe it's time to retire.

[Timothy]

I could no more leave a shop or restaurant or get out of a taxi without saying "thank you" than I could when leaving an air traffic service.

They are all "just doing their jobs" but that doesn't mean that we have to be rude or ungracious.

Obviously if things are very busy you become more taciturn - not to do so would also be rude - but nine times out of ten a "good morning" at the start and a "thank you" at the end takes up no significant time.

The relative difference between:
"Descend with the ILS and contact Biggin Approach on 129.4"

and

"Descend with the ILS and contact Biggin Approach on 129.4, thank you"

is miniscule.

[AyrTC]

Ah wait until 30/31st of December and I can say to all our westbound American cousins crossing 10W " lang may yer lum reek":ooh:

The best Christmas nicety I have heard was from a Delta pilot some years ago " have a cool yule ":ok:


AyrTC

[Workisfun]

Hello

What an interesting thread!!

Couldn't agree more with Apache43, if you have trouble remembering what was said because someone says b-bye to you perhaps its time to hang up those boots for the last time.

Also agree with timothy, I wouldn't dream of not saying hello and b-bye to a work colleague/lift attendant/supermarket cashier/telephone call so why should it be different on the r/t. There is too much hostility between strangers these days as it is, I wouldn't like the same thing to start happening at work too. Where have the days gone where you would walk down the street and say good morning to everyone whose path you crossed.

From a mil ATCO's point of view, a lot of our time is spent providing services to VFR civilian a/c and I will quite regularly have to limit them to quite restrictive flying in order to keep them and their fast and pointy cousins safe. Out in Class G (don't we all love it!!) they are perfectly entitled to tell me where to shove my restrictions, however I am a great believer that they would be willing to oblige a controller who provides a pleasant and courteous service, so a pleasantry here and there goes a long way. I certainly would be more willing to do things for someone who was pleasant to me than someone who just barked orders as per the 318A (Oops i mean 552) / MATS.

There is however one thing I hate:

Controller: G-BX freecall XXX Zone frequency 119.45, b-bye

A/c 1: Freecall XXX on 119.45, thanks for the service, G-BX, bye Nigel

A/c2: Bye Philip, see you on the ground, mines a tea white one.

WTF?? Whos freq is this? That really annoys me esp when I am busy. It is usually followed by:

Controller: All stations, XXX Zone, minimise to essential transmissions!

A/c 2: Sorry sir!

B-Bye

[frostbite]

Thing that I find peculiar is, when a pilot has said something like 'leaving your zone and transferring to wherever on whatever frequency', why does the ATCO find it necessary to say 'freecall wherever on whatever frequency' when the pilot's just said that's what he's going to do?

[idrive23]

All these small greetings are obviously not standard – but hey ,I like them – and I will keep saying them. well - When things are not too busy .

And my all time favourite is for dec 24th in the US:

Have a happy holyday of your choosing

pete

[Jerricho]

Frostbite, if I remember correctly it's to give an indication to the pilot the next unit/frequency you are changing to doesn't have your details or hasn't been afforded co-ordination, so expect to be asked.

[achtung]

I find it unbelievable that someone has had to make an issue of this? If it's busy then the hello etc is omitted, if it's quiet, what's the harm? I bet you're the same person that doesn't give way at a junction because it's "your right of way"? or the one that doesn't say thank you when someone gives way to you?? I mean that's not standard procedure either is it?:)

[ETOPS]

We are all normally functioning adult humans (aren't we ?) so politeness is an inbuilt reaction. I see nothing wrong with an occasional "Thanks" or "Bye" or "Servus" when it's quiet but wishing a controller "have a nice weekend" when he/she has just started a long slog, locked in an underground bunker staring at hundereds of blips, is just rubbing it in ;)

[The Otter's Pocket]

Dear Frostbite
I believe it is also due to the fact that the a/c has used the wrong frequency.
Numerous times we have all heard of people on the wrong freq. To some the radio is a daunting piece of kit that takes experience and confidence to make your r/t perfect. In the open FIR the use of the radio can be abortionate. However I believe that a pleasantry con certainly help those not used to the radio become more proficient.
Except..."Over and Out" I detest the morons who use that.

[rodan]

I'm all for pleasantries, it makes it all a bit more civilised. If you don't get a 'buh-bye' or 'thanks for your help' or 'g'day' from me on a non-busy frequency, then it's a fair indication that you've done something that's pissed me off. Either that, or my credit card statement arrived that morning

A word of caution though, "123.4 buh-bye" sounds an awful lot like "123.45" if it's all run together.

[vintage ATCO]

The ones that annoy me are the 'Have a good evening' at around 1900 when you are working til 2200, or the 'Have a great weekend' late on a Saturday. How can I, I'm at work!! :{

Seriously though, don't mind a bit of thank you and goodbye.

[positionand hold]

Come on chaps. Nobody is suggesting you should waste valuable RT time when busy, but pleasantries outside those times is no big deal. Go to South Africa and listen to how they manage to be polite, but still get the job done sharpish.

Next thing, nobody working ATC on Christmas Day (what a bum deal) will get a "Happy Christmas" and it's not like they are busy or anything for most of their shift on that day.

OK, so Happy New Year can start to wear a bit thin and too many Happy Christmases from the long-hauls headed east around 22.00Z on 24th Dec could be inappropriate.

By the way, "Don't tell me what kind of a day to have" was a very good US tee-shirt - should have sold thousands.....

[2 sheds]

Freebird

I have a great deal of sympathy with your view. I don't have any problem with a cheery "goodbye" if the frequency is not busy and it's a "matey" sort of environment where you hear the same voices every day. BUT the problem is that the pleasantries become ingrained and pointless. The pilot making initial contact does not know how active it is and furthermore neither party could probably really care less if the other has a good day!

Case in point - airprox in a TMA, pilot made incorrect report not noticed by ATC, everyone wishing everyone alse good morning and one of the factors being a high workload with busy RT. Worth considering how many seconds of RT time was being wasted with pleasantries. I am not against them in the right circumstances but I would suggest that that environment is not one.

Similarly - poor RT habits generally, mainly from pilots, but to some extent ATC - in a class G scenario. When it's not busy, no problem, but suddenly when it gets busy it becomes a major factor in working efficiently or the whole thing turning into a can of worms.


Achtung

You say...

"I bet you're the same person that doesn't give way at a junction because it's "your right of way"? "

Don't quite follow the analogy - are you one of the clowns who tries to get me to drive out across your bows at a junction when there is no traffic problem, thus encouraging me to collide with the other vehicle from my right (UK) or kill the cyclist overtaking you on your left? And all because you are too idle to turn the wheel and get on with the job?

There's another thread, perhaps!

[effortless]

Flying can be a very lonely occupation. I have always been gratefull for the little humanising touches. A polite good morning on first contact has made long solos bearable. I hate chit chat but gooday / goodbye takes no time at all.

[Timothy]

effortless,

I, too, do long solos (the endurance of my aircraft is being upped to 9 hours as I write) and find that the best solution is an FM tranny plugged into the 340. Works brilliantly, though you do have to retune fairly regularly.

Hugely preferable to an MP3 player because of the human touch of listening to Radio 4, France Inter or whatever.

[effortless]

I don't fly so much now and long solos are probably in the past, though I live in hope. I used to listen to the radio until I heard an anouncer one day, asking an unknown aircraft, some where over the south of England, to stop broadcasting Woman's Hour over 121.5. I don't think that it was me but I was a bit shaken up. :\ :\

[Bumblebee]

I can see both points of view - however I go for the slightly less formal :} approach and shorten the "Good Mornings" and a "London...Good afternoon.." etc in order to take up less airtime.

So generally if you hear "Hi London, Birdseed blah blah blah" - it's me. :D

[VectorLine]

I nearly always say "cheerio" on transfer, no matter how busy I am. Has become a sort of habit. I don't think I could stop myself now if I tried. :ugh:

[niknak]

Although I am a keen advocate of "Stand up - Seak up & Shut up" method of R/T, there's nothing wrong with saying "goodbye, good morning" etc, the more experienced on the R/T you are, the quicker you can say it.

If you don't want to or are too busy to reply, you don't have to.

[Jerricho]

the quicker you can say it.

Not a pop at you Nik me old chum, but something fairly high up on the "things that boil my p*ss" list is controllers and pilots alike who switch on the "auto-fire" r/t delivery that makes a horse race announcer sound slow.............to follow at the end with "and have a nice day" in a very conversational manner. Counterproductive to start with, and oh so infuriating.

[Timothy]

....some military controllers seem to pride themselves on it, and don't seem to have worked out that being asked to repeat something three times is actually slower than saying it at a slower rate in the first place :rolleyes:

[achtung]

ok, First might I suggest you change your name to 2 planks? Preferably short? And secondly, I shall explain the analogy for you, seeing as giving a greeting and trying to understand this is a little too much for you.
The greeting 'hello' or 'goodbye' is non-standard RT no? So, I compared this to my experience of driving in the UK, I noticed how many people gave way and said thank you, by raising their hand. I take it, that this is NOT a standard given by your authorities for your driving exam? I.E Not standard, but everyone does it as a politeness? I actually found it pleasant and made the driving experience a pleasant one. However, I find that in many other countries, that people could make driving so much more pleasant if we did the same as the Brits? In fact it would make some junctions more bearable and usable by simply giving way sometimes?) And to answer your other question, no, sorry I am not one of those clowns that would create a dangerous situation just to let you go, but I like to think I am a competent driver, and though I like to think I get 'the job done' generally by driving to the rules of the road, I DO occasionally take that drastic non-standard step of giving way and saying thank you now and then..... oh dear... oh dear..... awful heh? All this polite behaviour?? Oh and good evening. :D

[Northerner]

HI all,

As far as I'm concerned, politeness is a must; with niceties if time allows. Simple as that.

I was taught by someone who pointed out to me that if a pilot said goodbye to me I would almost automatically respond with goodbye, taking an extra transmission, whereas if I said it as I transferred them the extra transmission would go.

Of course if you are so busy that the r/t time is that precious that all niceties should dissappear then they should, but perhaps it also means that you're just a bit too busy and should maybe be split/regulated?
:confused:

Besides, I'm a friendly type by nature, and I enjoy my job. Why shouldn't I try to make another persons day a little nicer by being pleasant if I can be?

(Or outrageously flirtatious if time allows....
:E )

Cheers,
N

"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to..."

[Gonzo]

I very rarely fail to say goodbye, even if I'm busy.

But the best bit is flrting with the lady ATCOs over the phone.... ;)

[powdermonkey]

Hi all

I'm a ppl pilot studying for ATPL's and am fascinated by RT.
My standard initial call to Dublin ATC when flying out of EIWT is always
" Dublin Good Morning/.Afternoon/Evening, EIXXX"

It somehow seems extreemly rude to just announce your presence "Dublin EIXXX"....?

Does it really p**S controllers off?
It only takes 1/2 a second to say gmorning after all, and when I transfer back to EIWT after a traffic info service, I always say, "thank you for your assistance" because I want the guy/girl at the end of the line to know I appreciate the service, it's hardly what you would call tying up the airwaves now is it? Better to be grateful and polite and receive help when you need it than to come across rudely and abruptly...and be sent to a hold somewhere...?

My opinion is common courtesy only takes a sec, and I would hate to loose it.
cheers

[Gargleblaster]

I never say anything unnecessary on initial call because I have no idea how busy they are, having just tuned in. They might even be in the middle of a mayday situation.

After having been on the freq for some minutes I have a better idea of how busy, and if not busy, I might become more verbose, especially when leaving.

Where I fly, it can be quite busy, so the minimal initial call often immediately results in a "XX-XXX Standby", but then again they NEVER forget you, always come back in a minute or so.

BTW, powdermonkey, isn't "Dublin Good Morning/.Afternoon/Evening, EIXXX" poor RT ? Shouldn't Dublin's full callsign be used in an initial call, and shouldn't the niceties go at the end ?

[TrafficTraffic]

I Dont Belieeeeve it....

What a crap topic.

What really gets my goat is when a pilot calls in and says Good Morning and it is 4 O'clock in the afternoon (I can understand if you are on the SIA NewYork-Singapore ) :O

I think we should ban all pleasantries across the board as well as the issuance of direct tracking or the requests for it.

Any pilot requesting direct should get an orbit (left or right you choose) or be banned from the next test like Shahid Afridi.

TT

[powdermonkey]

Gargleblaster

For the sake of quick typing etc. I just typed Dublin. Real life scenario, depending on wich frequency I call, either North or South sector, I will address them as "Dublin Control", ( I have also heard others call Dublin South/North ). If they are busy they will ask me to contact Dublin Information for traffic info service. Apologies if that wasn't clear.....now is the pleasant good morning to be placed at the end of my initial call? ie Dublin Control, EIXXX...good morning

Poor RT? never had any complaints or criticisms from instructors, examiners or ATC...must be doing something right....and if niceties are non standard RT, does it matter where I put it???
Not being smart here by the way, if it isn't right I'll fix it


TT....bit grumpy today?
:{

[Scott Voigt]

Not that it bothers me per se, however, with the RT getting more and more over crowded, any extranious verbage just isn't needed these days. We have pilots here in the US who are way to wordy in checking in as well as asking for things. For the most part we are all busy at the major hubs and just can't afford the extra air time. Pilots aren't the only ones with things to say and if we were to cut out the extra stuff, it would allow for a bit more time to give clearances and hear readbacks. Besides, I would much rather cut out the good day so that they would have time to use a call sign <sigh>...

regards

Scott

[ETOPS]

powdermonkey

Surely it should be Dia duid when calling Dublin ?

[powdermonkey]

ETOPS

Dunno mate, I don't do Irish!!! I take it it means Hello?
RT in Gaeilge.........intersting:hmm:
Wasn't born here so I was spared Irish in school..thank the Good Lord Jaizus! Begorra don't ye know

[TrafficTraffic]

To be sure...


Never Grumpy - just right

:ok:

[overmars]

Based on R/T traffic, if it is quite light, I will say "thanks" or "g'day" when I am being handed off.

But, some guys in my company will say that is non-standard radio procedure. So... :confused:

[Pierre Argh]

I guess "G'day" and "thanks" are Non-standard... in the sense that such phrases are not listed in the RT Phraseology... but neither are phrases like "do you have any weather on radar?", "that taxiway is closed" or "you're on fire!"

Standard phraseology is designed for set situations to prevent confusion and ambiguity... it is not meant to limit communication, or stiffle courtesy and politeness provided it isn't detrimental and used at the right time and place?

Good Day

[NIMFLT]

We're all humans and do things differently based on our understanding and training. A G'day and Thank you isn't the end of the world, but all of you who agree with saying it should admit that you are breaking the rules.

Just fess up and say that you are breaking the rules on purpose (but... add your excuse here).

My excuse is I usually respond in kind to a pilot who intitiates a greeting, (if i'm not busy) but don't usually initiate it myself.

It's the rule breaking principle. Don't break or bend rules on purpose. You break enough of them without trying or knowing it, and if you break a rule, and make a mistake at the same time, the cheese holes start to line up.

And as an acknowledgement of good work, a call to the ATC works great every once in a while.

Mike

[FlapsOne]

R/T manual simply advises against excessive use of pleasantries.

So, if they don't get in the way, what's the problem?

[PMS]

Pleasantries, for some of us controllers is part of our banter over the air. I was of the opinion you pilots would like us to be friendly. The overriding thing is if one is busy then I usually drop it due to the time factor otherwise why not?

[blondie118]

All I have to say is....

SOUR PUSS, GRUMPY FACE, SOUR PUSS, GRUMPY FACE

I say the same to the guys I work with.:p

Manner cost nothing.

[SixDelta]

The use "good afternoon" on first contact or "Cheers" when leaving a freq hardly constitutes R/T congestion :rolleyes:

Merry Christmas, thanks guys, see you all next year, don't drink too much, watch those mince pies, enjoy the turkey! Cheers :D