crash in Nigeria [Archive]

Narada

23rd Oct 2005, 03:53

A bit more from various sources (keep an eye on google news page):

Aircraft type: 737
From: Murtala Muhammed airport, Lagos, Nigeria
To: Abuja, Nigeria
People: 108 passenger and six crew

Additional quotes:

"A storm was passing through Lagos about the time the flight left, according to CNN's Jeff Koinange." (CNN)

"Pilots issued a distress call before the plane disappeared from radar about 15 miles west of Lagos over the Atlantic Ocean, state television reported." (ABC News)

Fubaar

23rd Oct 2005, 05:45

Listening to CNN's "former pilot and aviation expert" had me wanting to throw my weeties bowl through the television screen. The guy was fixated on the crash simply having to be caused by the crew flying into a thunderstorm.

Maybe, after thorough investigation, we'll find he was right, but there's no way anyone could - or should - be saying what this person was saying so early after the event.

Chicken Noodle News' need to fill the void with words as soon as possible after any such event does no one any favours.

alouette

23rd Oct 2005, 07:00

Yes, and the "Asphyxiated Press" as well as "Loiters" speaks of a possible terrorist act just to cause unrest within the community. And of course the Countermine Controlled Network is not shy of any statements concerning this mishap appearing with an expert on the air. :yuk:

Won't hold me back to go to Nigeria just in a few weeks.

alexmcfire

23rd Oct 2005, 07:06

Rumors at da Swedish forum is that the same aircraft had engine problems in The Gambia a few weeks ago, causing delays...

Kaptin M

23rd Oct 2005, 08:22

CNN repeatedly shows a photo of a 737NG, however my research on the Internet wouuld appear to indicate that Bellview operated 73-200's.
Anyone care to enlighten us which model is the type that has gone down, please?
What nationality are the tech crews employed by Bellview?
Thanks in advance.
K.M.

BA-BEANCOUNTER

23rd Oct 2005, 08:45

A bit more detail from African newssource

http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=31559

Puritan

23rd Oct 2005, 09:51

Bellview don't seem to have much in the way of a web site but from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellview_Airlines_(Nigeria)) it suggests:Bellview Airlines (Nigeria)

Bellview Airlines is an airline based in Lagos, Nigeria. It was established and started operations in 1992, is privately owned and operates scheduled domestic and international charter flights from Lagos.

Code Data
IATA Code: B3
ICAO Code: BLV
Callsign: Bellview AirlinesServices

Bellview Airlines operates the following services (at January 2005): Domestic scheduled destinations: Abuja, Kano, Lagos and Port Harcourt.
International scheduled destinations: Abidjan, Accra, Banjul, Conakry, Dakar, Douala, Freetown, Libreville, London, Monrovia and Mumbai.Ed. As of mid 2005, one of Bellview's B767's presently operates a regular service between Lagos and London Heathrow that involves a drop-off / pick-up en-route in Freetown / Sierra Leone.

Fleet

The Bellview Airlines fleet consists of the following aircraft (at January 2005):
5 Boeing 737-200 (Ed: err, that should probably now read as 4)
2 Boeing 767-200
2 Douglas DC-9-30Previously they had operated an Airbus A300, but this was disposed of in August 2003.

G-CPTN

23rd Oct 2005, 10:01

CNN:-
located the downed jet in Oyo State, at a site 200 kilometers (120 miles) north of the city of Lagos,

The pilot issued a distress call just before the control tower lost sight of the plane about three minutes after takeoff,

*********************************

Earlier reports that a/c t/o from Lagos over the sea and then turn in-land. 120 mile NORTH seems a helluva way in three minutes . . . What happened AFTER the distress call?

BBC:-
Planes flying from Nigeria's biggest city, Lagos, to the capital, Abuja, normally take off over the sea and then circle back inland for the 50-minute flight to Abuja.

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

23rd Oct 2005, 10:44

BBC are now talking of survivers, maybe upto 50 but what injuries is unknown

G-I-B

Kaptin M

23rd Oct 2005, 10:45

120 mile NORTH seems a helluva way in three minutes .That's ONLY 40 miles/minute....2,400 mph - and during acceleration (clean-up).

Beam me down, Scotty!

G-CPTN

23rd Oct 2005, 11:01

BBC:-
Nigeria has one of the world's worst air safety records, having been the scene of several crashes and near-misses.
An Air France plane was badly damaged after striking a herd of cows while trying to land in the oil city of Port Harcourt last month.

fortuna76

23rd Oct 2005, 11:31

True, Nigeria is not top of the world when it comes down to there safety record. However bellview did not have a bad record and was certainly not te worst company out there.

There are also a couple of european bases operators doing domestic routes for expats which if they would have an accident would probably be thrown in there with the lot, but it seems a bit to simple to me to say that just because it is nigeria it must be one of those bad airlines. Let´s see what comes out of investigation first, shall we?

Airbubba

23rd Oct 2005, 12:29

>>Previously they had operated an Airbus A300, but this was disposed of in August 2003

Also, a few years ago they provided crews to operate a couple of Air India A-310's on a contract. Most of the pilots were Canadian and Ozzies with at least one Kiwi thrown in for good measure.

stagger

23rd Oct 2005, 13:37

120 mile NORTH seems a helluva way in three minutes .

According to CNN...

"The pilot issued a distress call just before the control tower lost sight of the plane about three minutes after takeoff...

And subsequently...

"...search teams located the downed jet in Oyo state, at a site 200 kilometers (120 miles) north of Lagos."

So it's not that they travelled 120 miles north in 3 minutes - but that they apparently travelled 120 miles north after issuing a distress call.

Farmer 1

23rd Oct 2005, 13:43

Stagger,

And does that explanation satisfy you? You don't think there might be one or two immediate questions left unanswered?

stagger

23rd Oct 2005, 13:52

Errr...no of course not. It certainly sounds a bit strange.

However, I was simply trying to clarify what has been reported.

ETOPS

23rd Oct 2005, 14:24

They do indeed have 737-200's. Here is an example:

http://www.airliners.net/photos/middle/9/5/1/943159.jpg

G-CPTN

23rd Oct 2005, 15:24

>quote:120 mile NORTH seems a helluva way in three minutes .
>So it's not that they travelled 120 miles north in 3 minutes - but that they apparently travelled 120 miles north after issuing a distress call.
>And does that explanation satisfy you? You don't think there might be one or two immediate questions left unanswered?

Bravo, Farmer 1, you have spotted the inconsistency.
I made the statement:-
quote:120 mile NORTH seems a helluva way in three minutes . . . What happened AFTER the distress call?
because it seemed 'strange' that ATC lost contact (and sight) of the a/c three minutes after take-off (when over the sea), wheras the wreckage was found 120 miles north of Lagos (inland).
Do we assume that ATC were unable to TRACK the a/c because it was below radar height, or had the transponder been inactivated. Surely, even if the latter they would have been able to follow an 'unidentified' a/c, and it must have taken at least 20 minutes to reach the crash location? No further transmission? Can't be the same as the Cypriot 737 surely?

(Note, I'm NOT suggesting that lack of oxygen or decompression are the cause.)

PAXboy

23rd Oct 2005, 15:27

At GMT 15:51 the BBC is now reporting Confusion surrounds Nigeria crash (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4368516.stm)
The plane was first reported to have been found on Sunday morning by a police search and rescue team using a helicopter near the rural town of Kishi, Oyo state, 400km (320 miles) from Lagos.

But officials later retracted statements about the plane's location after a TV crew said it had found the aircraft near the village of Lissa in Ogun state, more than 150km to the south.

Initial reports said at least 50 people were alive, but a Red Cross official at the crash site later told Reuters news agency there was no trace of any survivors.

"The plane is still burning. I can't confirm if there are any survivors, but there is no trace so far," Abiodun Orebiyi said.

"The plane was totally destroyed. It was scattered everywhere."

G-CPTN

23rd Oct 2005, 15:40

And there was a suggestion of a cover-up with the Cypriot 737 . . .
!

CNN:-
The Red Cross told CNN the plane crashed near Lissa, about 30 km (20 miles) north of the commercial capital Lagos. Earlier reports had put the crash site further north in Oyo state.

More plausible distance to have travelled after SOS.

G-CPTN

23rd Oct 2005, 16:54

Amazing what you can find on the Nettie:-
(Half-mill map of Lagos)
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/lagos_tpc_1997.jpg
Who can locate the crash-site?

Larger map:-
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/nigeria.gif

View of crash-site:-
http://nm.onlinenigeria.com/templates/?a=5702&z=12

Farmer 1

23rd Oct 2005, 17:21

What happened AFTER the distress call? What happened DURING the distress call? i.e. what did it contain? What was the nature of the distress?

If nothing else, it seems to me an unlikely moment for terrorists to strike, just after take-off.

But what did ATC do after that?

When those on the spot cannot decide whether half of those on board survived or not, or even on an accurate position, I cannot help but think it will be a while before the truth is out.

I hope I am proved wrong.

Stagger, after rereading my post, I realise I was a tad sharp. My apologies.

Flying Mech

23rd Oct 2005, 18:06

And so the Dark Continent claims another A/C. I have just heard on the radio that there were no survivors.

ruma

23rd Oct 2005, 18:49

Finally the crash site was located to be 348 radial, 6.4nm to the LAG VOR. A sorry site i will say with papers and clothing scattered all over the place. From the look of things i saw on the site, the aircraft buried itself in a big hole dug from the impact. Actuators, part of the Registration label N-B-- was the only prove that the aircraft did crashed at the site. May their souls rest in Peace. Thanks to the helicopter operating companies. Bristow was there with the Puma, The two Police helicopters, The Navy, Aero Contractors and Caverton helicopters, Presidency too sent the Bell 412. The Dornier 228 was also used in the morning to do the racky to Kishi where it was earlier reported to have crashed. Investigation is still on though. It was a total loss. I am still wondering where was the NAMA helicopter during the search?

lomapaseo

23rd Oct 2005, 19:22

I am still wondering where was the NAMA helicopter during the search?

Possibly at yet another different crash site :*

G-CPTN

23rd Oct 2005, 19:26

> quote:I am still wondering where was the NAMA helicopter during the search?
>Possibly at yet another different crash site

Where there were 50 survivors?

Stubenfliege 2

23rd Oct 2005, 19:33

Hi,

a bit more information from far away:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-10/23/content_3674377.htm

"LAGOS, Oct. 23 (Xinhuanet) -- All 117 people, including 111 passengers and six crew members on board a Nigerian airliner, which crashed shortly after takeoff from the country's commercial capital Lagos, may have died, officials said on Sunday.

"Bellview Airlines announces with deep regret the loss involving our aircraft B737-200A flight number B3210 of Saturday October 22, 2005 with a total of 117 souls on board," the airlines' chairman Tunde Yusuf told reporters.

"We have now located the accident site at Lissa village, 16 nautical miles (about 29.6 km) northwest of the Lagos airport," Yusuf said. "We have not been able to locate any survivor."

Fidelis Onyeyiri, director general of the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority, confirmed the news, saying that the plane, lost contact with control tower shortly after it took off at 8:35 p.m. (1930 GMT) on Saturday en route to Abuja, the capital.

"An alert was raised and search and rescue efforts commenced immediately," Onyeyiri said. "Sadly the aircraft crashed."

"Our preliminary appraisal suggests that the aircraft might have started stalling after passing flight level 130, lost control, then nosedived into the ground and created a huge crater into which it disappeared," he said.

"Unfortunately, there appear to be no survivors."

He did not blame the weather on the crash of the plane, which was manufactured in 1981 and still in serviceable condition. "Although there were some clouds are lighting toward the northwest, there were not severe enough to have prevented the successful takeoff of the flight." ""

Regards,

Stubenfliege

vapilot2004

23rd Oct 2005, 20:56

Hey - 2-3 Posts gone missing here !?!! :mad:

Just thought it interesting that there were politicos on board.

Also, I read (correct me if I'm wrong) the airline had a good safety record for 10 years operating these old 737's (among other old birds)

G-CPTN

23rd Oct 2005, 21:59

>Finally the crash site was located to be 348 radial, 6.4nm to the LAG VOR.
>16 nautical miles (about 29.6 km) northwest of the Lagos airport

So how on earth could they
a) not know where it was for eight hours?
b) 'find' it 300-odd miles away, then 120 miles away?
c) announce that there were @ 50 survivors

We're not talking deepest darkest Africa here, are we?
Surely, so close to the VOR (and burning) it must have been visible to many people?
I understand that there is a military base nearby too . . .

Old King Coal

23rd Oct 2005, 22:07

G-CPTN - Mate, unless you've worked in Africa you have little, or no, idea of how it works ! :rolleyes: :E :}

Jordan D

23rd Oct 2005, 22:23

BBC News this evening state no survivors ... story updated on earlier link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4368516.stm

Jordan

the_hawk

24th Oct 2005, 09:35

according to ASN (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20051022-0) it's 5N-BFN (http://www.aerotransport.org/php/go.php?q=photos+5N-BFN)

MOD hint: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=195434

TheShadow

24th Oct 2005, 17:58

How probable is it that the aircraft's bonding is likely to be disrupted during a "C" or "D" servicing?

Assume here that it's a THIRD WORLD undertaking and that they are not too punctilious (or just don't understand the criticality of 100% integrity of the bonding for taking the potential whhack out of a lightning strike).

My understanding is that if the bonding isn't 100%, that you can expect to lose a number of systems at least - as the current can then invade the Faraday cage and get amongst the avionics, lighting and instrumentation - perhaps even have a total electrics if the GCR's are toasted..

As the FDR has been pulverized, I guess it's all very academic now anyway. I note from the soccer team's experience (link on airliners.net) that this airframe (5N-BFN) had a significant electrical history anyway.

TS

G-CPTN

25th Oct 2005, 00:16

From:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4370572.stm
After Sunday's crash, the government briefly closed down Daar Communications, which operates the local AIT television station and Ray Power radio, saying the stations had displayed gross professional misconduct in their reporting of the incident.
The National Broadcasting Commission (NBC) said AIT had broadcast "close up shot of decapitated body parts".
Daar officials say the government was unhappy that the station broadcast pictures from the scene while aviation authorities were saying the plane had crashed much further north.
The authorities were also reportedly unhappy that AIT mistakenly said that the president's wife, Stella Obasanjo, who died in Spain on Sunday, was born in 1935, rather than 1945.

AND:-
He said those countries with poor air safety records generally had a problem with oversight by the authorities.
Many African countries had a problem finding enough resources and qualified personnel to ensure that rules were being obeyed, he said.

Also, why the reports were confused:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4372458.stm

pprecious

25th Oct 2005, 03:23

Does Nigeria have a safety board or group such as the AAIB, or NTSB?

And if so, do they have the experience and resources to conduct a thorough investigation?

If not, as there were other nationalities involved could other nations Investigation boards also take part? I guess Boeing will already be involved already.

I was watching pictures on the news last night and there seemed to be quite a crowd of public all walking through and over the crash site picking through the remains, all of which would damage cruicial evidence I would expect.