LONDON CITY [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

pipistrelle

20th Oct 2005, 22:53

With the increased traffic at LCY it now seems that LCY atc are requesting other london sectors to put delaying action on inbound traffic i.e. speed reductions many miles out(>60), long detours round the south east, holds etc,. I heard tha a scot airways Do328 was zapped the other last night whilst being routed around until ramp space became available. It's one thing to have to burn more fuel, everyone has to join a queue but when a/c are damaged whilst beig held off because lcy like the revenue that seems a tad wrong. Surely this must indicate a need for more ramp space or less inbound traffic!!!

Skipness One Echo

21st Oct 2005, 14:57

I believe the 328 was struck by lightning as LATCC wouldn't release departures due weather delays and there was no more ramp space..... It was all very silly, the lady in the tower was awful and that IS my honest opinion.

Gonzo

24th Oct 2005, 14:21

Of course Skipness, you were there, weren't you? I mean you had to be for you to make such an accusation. So that being the case, why do you only 'believe' LTCC wouldn't release the deps due weather?

Can you please amplify on your honest opinion?

Oshkosh George

24th Oct 2005, 15:54

Gonzo
I would read that again if I were you. He said he believed the 328 was struck by lightning.

Crusty-Beard

24th Oct 2005, 16:00

As for witholding releases, it wasn't easy when you got conflicting responses from Thames radar and the flow control / traffic manager. One saying there were no delays, the other saying MDIs of 5 mins and then us having to get in the queue for EGSS EGGW and EGMC deps !!!!!!!!!!

You'd start an a/c being told " Yes, we'll get him away " only to be told he can then expect 10-15min delay when it's put on request, this a/c in particular was fuel critical. One flight even had to be shut down to be re-fuelled because it waited so long.........

There was no ramp space, and up to 4/5 were holding along the taxiway and with LCY's money-orientated scheduling things can only get better ;-)

Bring on the winter schedule !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gonzo

24th Oct 2005, 17:15

Yes, I am sorry, I must have misread it. That's what I get for posting after getting in from a night shift. Apologies to Skipness. Thank you Oshkosh for pointing that out. However, I still do think there's an explanation needed. The post seems to imply that a lightning strike was City Tower's fault. I bet, as Crusty says, they physically couldn't fit another a/c on the airfield.

virginblue

24th Oct 2005, 18:20

Just for the record, a link to the old thread...

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=164097

...and a quick recap of the most recent developments:

- VLM to start its 9th destination from LCY, a five times weekly serviceto IOM. As it is at the expense of the SOU-BRU route that will be handed over to Eastern, it leaves VLM Airlines with only one route not originating at LCY (RTM-HAM). What is a bit surprising is that VLM Airlines will have two routes (JER and IOM) on which the aircraft will sit idle at the outbound destination for many hours of the day.

- VLM to add a 6th daily flight on the BRU route.

- Darwin's Berne route will go up to twice daily with effect winter schedule. My understanding is that the service will be operated on behalf of Darwin Airlines by Skywork with a Dornier 328-110 instead of the Saab 2000 currently used by Darwin. Lugano will be served inbound in the mornings and outbound on the evenings.

Skipness One Echo

25th Oct 2005, 08:36

My point was that the lady in the Tower isn't the best. yes I was there. I was also there two days later when a VLM Fokker 50 had to execute a go around and when challenged for a reason by annoyed said lady, the reply was "because you haven't cleared us to land ma'am." Oops! It is the little things and I admit it doesn't help when there is no taxiway and your ramp is the size of a postage stamp.

Gonzo

26th Oct 2005, 18:21

Gosh. If possibly being forgetful once means one is awful, there must be a lot of awful pilots and ATCOs out there. I once forgot to clear someone to land. She might not have forgot to give a landing clearance: I've had more than a handful of pilot-initiated go-arounds because I hadn't cleared an a/c to land. I was going to, but the crew obviously thought they'd rather go around, I know a few of them were on a line-check and had reached DH.

Buster the Bear

26th Oct 2005, 19:50

I think that the mostly single handed ATC operation at London City would tax even the 'best' ATCO's!

Swiper the Fox

26th Oct 2005, 21:58

Skipness One Echo, the 'said lady' you are referring to on those two occasions are in fact two different controllers. Maybe the bright lights of the city confused you!

CharlesDavid

27th Oct 2005, 09:02

Hello Swiper, how do you know that then? :yuk:

Swiper the Fox

27th Oct 2005, 09:19

I have my methods, Luton boy.

pipistrelle

27th Oct 2005, 09:49

the scot dornier WAS struck by lightning, this of course was not the fault of LCY atc, however the delaying action put on the inbound traffic - due to ramp congestion left LATCC no option but to route lcy traffic all round the sky. Being an infrequent user of LCY I have always found the tower extremely helpful, I tend to think that they are forced into the situation of delaying inbounds because the airport management don't want to turn away revenue. When it gets to the situation of being forced to hold off in crap conditions so that the airport owners can line their pockets then surely the flags are up to say that they have reached or exceeded capacity. Maybe LCY as a goodwill gesture will offer to reimburse operators for all damage, lost revenue, etc. P.S. I also believe inthe tooth fairy,santa claus and that the meek shall inherit.......etc

Skipness One Echo

27th Oct 2005, 10:30

Can I apologise for being a bit harsh earlier. The more I see of London City the more I understand just how demanding the place is for ATC. Where alse could you see an ANA 747-400 loom out of the clouds in the overhead leading 4 landing lights from a jet black cloud at about 3000ft ( you could read the titles with the naked eye) whilst you had traffic on approach on a runway at 90 degrees to the Heathrow inbounds.

The ATC is spot on. It bloody well has to be!!
(I'm scared)

WHBM

27th Oct 2005, 14:12

so that the airport owners can line their pockets
I really don't think the owners of LCY can be considered to be lining their pockets.

For certainly the first 10 years it was money out of the door every year.

Now things have picked up, but only really in the morning and evening peaks. Look in at 11 am and there is hardly anyone in the terminal, and the few aircraft on the ramp have minimal loads.

Yes it's all a rush weekday mornings and evenings, and more operators might wish to come in, but only at this time. Saturdays are sad in the morning, then it is closed for 24 hours. The only scope for ramp expansion is to the east of the terminal building. This will involve filling in the end of the KGV dock, an engineering solution which I can assure you (because I do them) does not come cheap. And this is for a gate which will only be required 10 times a week.

Steep Approach

27th Oct 2005, 15:53

Has Skipjack been told to "Expedite Your Backtrack!" :D ;)

Now there's a tale!

:mad: :E

CharlesDavid

27th Oct 2005, 16:00

MM...It is an amazing place. I think any more stands or taxiway that are added to it will take away from the magic of it. It is fun to see it operate at the limit, especially when you see the skills of some of the pilots that make the whole thing work (Flying backwards up the ILS; Expediting down the runway, etc). The odd GA is inevitable, but this is just part of life at somewhere that operates at such a limit aT Peak times. I will miSS the place, but if it gets too bad, I can always switch the flight SIM ON and visit it that way! Sad I know....

Steep Approach

27th Oct 2005, 16:10

You'll just miss the Egg and Bacon Sarnies Charlie boy! :ok:

Now run along.. :sad:

AlanM

27th Oct 2005, 17:53

A Nonny Mouse

27th Oct 2005, 20:06

Any chance of that DVR release I asked for last week Alan;)

Red Four

27th Oct 2005, 20:39

AlanM wrote:

. It is only going to get busier - as Thames is expected to work all the Southend inbounds/outbounds from Southend (probably using 4000ft to get them inside CAS)

What do you you base this statement on?

AlanM

27th Oct 2005, 20:47

A nonny....

NEGATIVE.....traffic departing EHAM has that level blocked.

Red Four....

Are you going to be at the meeting next week at Centre Place West Drayton discussing this concept with other airport management? Something about FLYBE's DH8s and the new service........ (unless of course FLYBE are happy bimbling along outside CAS below traffic not calling us)

WHBM

30th Oct 2005, 17:57

Well it looks like passengers out of London City are in for problems over the next week as the Limehouse Link road tunnel outbound from London, the principal route out from Central London to the airport, has been closed off after a bus caught fire in it early Sunday morning and the blaze was so intense the road surface and overhead lighting were all destroyed.

There's nothing about it on the airport website (so far), but looking at the resulting congestion of the Sunday afternoon traffic, and extrapolating to weekday business hours, looks like a lot of people are going to be missing flights. The bus service from Liverpool Street will get caught up in it all.

Irony is that the bus belonged to Stagecoach buses in East London, principal owner Brian Souter, and one of the major carriers at London City is Scot Airways, principal owner Brian Souter. So if you're on Scot and miss your flight, tell the staff it's all Brian's problem :)

tom de luxe

31st Oct 2005, 18:25

Yeah, there were quite a few late PAX and then some at LCY today...

On a more positive note, traffic east of the Limeouse Link bottleneck appeared to be lighter than usual. Tube or DLR to Canning Town is the way to go...

Fried_Chicken

8th Nov 2005, 18:06

Have Sunair/BA ditched plans to fly CPH-LCY with a D328 now SAS have begun the route with DHC8D?

FC

WHBM

8th Nov 2005, 18:15

Yes, Sun Air decided not to start a while ago. It would have been mad for both to have started.

virginblue

9th Nov 2005, 10:15

There continue to be rumours coming out of Austria that Austrian Arrows is seriously looking at a VIE-LCY service to be flown with "Dash 8" equipment (due to the length of the route, I suppose this means Q400). Any info on that from the other end ?

Fried_Chicken

10th Nov 2005, 21:48

Do Austrian still operate Fokker 70's?

Now that could be fun :D

FC

virginblue

11th Nov 2005, 11:15

They do, but 1) they would require some mods and b) would still have operational issues (reason why AF switched from F70 to B146s).

By the way, has anybody an insight why apparently for the proposed NCL-route Eastern is in the running rather than VLM Airlines - or rather, why VLM is, as the logical airline to operate the route, not interested in NCL ? Various articles in airline mags state that a decision about a January start of the NCL-route by T3 is now imminent, to be operated by a Saab 2000 with a flight time of 65 minutes.

Buster the Bear

14th Nov 2005, 09:44

An interesting article:

http://www.ciobinternational.org/openArticle.asp?ArticleID=4788

virginblue

21st Nov 2005, 17:11

#12/2005 of Airliner World runs a short news clipping on WDL that says that "the Cologne-based airline is understood to be in talks to operate a new service between Madrid and London City in partnership with Air Nostrum and on behalf of Spanish national carrier Iberia".

Whatever that means.

WHBM

21st Nov 2005, 17:44

Whatever that means

WDL have got a few 146s and do various leasing arrangements which an operator putting their toe in the water on an LCY route could find an advantage.

Air Nostrum are the commuter carrier offshoot of Iberia, mainly operating domestic within Spain. For several years now much of their turboprop fleet has been provided under a similar arrangement with our old friends VLM/Denim Air. These are dedicated aircraft in Iberia livery.

If you were going to try a Madrid-LCY route marketed as an Iberia operation, say twice daily, with a non-standard type, it would be a good way to go. The WDL 146s are sufficiently old that a simple rate per hour should be adequate for an operation initially with a lot of standing time at Madrid.

Flightline would probably be interested in bidding for the contract as well.

simonwa

21st Nov 2005, 17:45

EASTERN AIRWAYS NCL - LCY

Eastern Airways have announced NCL - LCY 4x weekdays

http://www.newcastleairport.com/ReadNews.aspx?news=123

virginblue

21st Nov 2005, 19:16

Whatever that means.

Next time I shall be less cryptic ;)

What I meant to hint at was the fact that the same story already popped up about a year ago, but in the end it did not materialize.

Maybe it is second time luck. We shall see.

WDL has been doing a lot of ACMI work for Air Nostrum in the past. Their Bae 146s, however, are pretty knackered and 3+3. so probably not too appealing for the business clientele.

WHBM

22nd Nov 2005, 08:50

Their Bae 146s, however, are pretty knackered and 3+3
The 2+3 146s were a feature of its earlier days of operation in the US. When these aircraft returned to European operators the seats remained for a while but many seemed to go to 3+3 at the next major check. Which 146 operators still have the main cabin as 2+3 ?

Several LCY operators seem to operate fully 3+3 aircraft but not sell the centre seats in the business class area.

spagiola

22nd Nov 2005, 12:00

Which 146 operators still have the main cabin as 2+3 ?

Swiss does. Lufthansa used to, but has now switched to 6-abreast.

virginblue

22nd Nov 2005, 21:13

Interestingly enough, in a German forum someone who apears to be in the know reports that WDL will add a business class section in some of their BAe 146s for "next season". Appears to be a good indicator that the MAD-LCY operation indeed may go ahead.

virginblue

5th Dec 2005, 11:27

On a.net, there is an interesting LCY thread triggered by the opening of the DLR extension.

Some guy who apparently has an insight into what is going on at LCY has hinted at the following destinations to be the front-runners for new routes from LCY:

VIE by Welcome Air (interesting one indeed)

MMX by Malmoe Aviation (looked at again by Malmoe Av.)

ARN by SAS (rumoured for a while)

WAW by LOT (only an educated guess by me as the remarks are somewhat cloudy).

Apparently, MAD (by IB) and LIN (by AZ) are currently on the backburner.

There is also reference being made to something "big" happening in 2006. I can only imagine that this means that some airline is interested in setting up shop at LCY, whoever that might be (maybe AF/Cityjet or LH/BMI?)

Fried_Chicken

5th Dec 2005, 18:58

Surely for LOT & AZA to begin flights to London City, either the ERJ145 or the EMB170 will have to be certified for City first?

Who picks up the cost for the certification? Airlines, airport or manufacturers (i'm guessing the latter?)

Fried Chicken

virginblue

6th Jan 2006, 13:59

Swiss will up the ZRH route to seven weekday flights with effect summer schedule. Departures from LCY at 0825 (X7), 1025 (X7), 1215 (X67), 1510 (X67), 1715 (X6), 1830 (X6), 1950 (X6), all with RJ100s. On top of that three weekday depatures to BSL (RJ100) and four to GVA (RJ85), making it 14 daily departures from LCY by Swiss.

As it appears, Cirrus Airlines will axe the MUC orute with effect sumer schedule. The flights are no longer bookable. Anyone confirm ? Would be the second time to see MUC disappear which is particularly noteworthy as MUC will be axed by BA from LGW as well.

Jamesair

6th Jan 2006, 16:54

On the plus side Easyjet is to increase frequency to MUC in September

ebenezer

6th Jan 2006, 19:15

"Eastern Airways have announced NCL - LCY 4x weekdays..."

More bloody low n' slow departures through Brookmans Park, no doubt.

What with this and EGMC's increasing claims to the airspace, it's gonna get stupid and completely out-of-hand very soon.

Rumoured that EGGW's and EGSS's owners are also starting to get grief from their lo-co's about departure delays on south-eastbounds at peak times - well guys, you ain't seen nothin' yet...

:{ :yuk: :ugh: :(

virginblue

6th Jan 2006, 20:57

I was just wondering if the LH/C9 withdrawal from the MUC route has something to do with Swiss' accession to Star alliance and the increase of Swiss' flights to ZRH, i.e. if Star wants to route LCY-MUC passengers through ZRH in the future. Not exactly sure how the Cirrus flights are marketed - is it a block space agreement LH has with Cirrus or do they just buy seats ad hoc ?

AlanM

6th Jan 2006, 21:47

ebenezer

Things will get much better soon - when the EGMC NW traffic goes that way too.

Can we not get traffic lights at the Park?!?:eek:

virginblue

7th Jan 2006, 15:02

1.) As we are just at it, according to ABTN Air France is also adding capacity at LCY:

"AIR FRANCE has introduced a 0635 departure from London City Airport to Paris Orly. With this new flight, a 1000 (local) appointment in the centre of the French capital can easily be met. There are now six daily (Monday to Friday) services in each direction with the last departure from Orly 2020. Air France continues with a limited Monday to Friday operation to Charles de Gaulle leaving City airport 0905 arriving CDG 1115."

AMS, ZRH, PAR, BRU, MAN, RTM, EDI now all have seven or more daily flights. Pretty impressive.

2.) The airport has relaunched its website. Much better, IMHO, although the light blue is a bit difficult to read.

virginblue

10th Jan 2006, 14:32

According to Cirrus Airlines, LCY-MUC will be continued, but at the moment there are some slot difficulties. This is the reason why they do not accept bookings at the moments.

tom de luxe

10th Jan 2006, 20:32

AMS, ZRH, PAR, BRU, MAN, RTM, EDI now all have seven or more daily flights. Pretty impressive.

Add LUX to that :cool:

virginblue

16th Jan 2006, 10:41

ABTN has this to report:

"Also expected today is an announcement by SAS of a twice daily service from London City to Stockholm Arlanda. This would fit in nicely with the recently introduced Copenhagen operation although the carrier will for the longer route use an AVRO RJ70."

There have been rumours about this route and that Blue1 will operate it on behalf of SAS. Until now, Blue1 does not operate RJ70s, so it seems to me that an RJ85 is more likely.

WHBM

16th Jan 2006, 12:18

The Blue1 RJ85/100 fleet is currently fully utilised, so they will presumably need an additional airframe from somewhere. Could be a cheap RJ70, there are more sellers than buyers for it at present.

Presumably by the timing of this announcement the recent SAS LCY-Copenhagen service has done well for them.

virginblue

16th Jan 2006, 13:13

As I am thinking about it, how is the Transwede RJ70 currently utilised that fed these Skavsta-Pakistan flights from the UK ? Might be a way to keep it busy. Or maybe some work for Euromanx :uhoh:

virginblue

19th Jan 2006, 13:29

This appears on LCY's website and is also uploaded into the CRS:

Departures to Stockholm
Depart Arrive Flight No. M T W T F S S
09:35 13:05 SK510
17:55 21:25 SK1510

Arrivals from Stockholm
Depart Arrive Flight No. M T W T F S S
07:35 09:05 SK517
15:55 17:25 SK529

Flight equipment is indeed the Transwede Avro RJ70 according to the SAS press release, although the CRS show a Dash 8 Q400.

As it reads at LCY's website, it is already operating, but apparently it will start on February 13, 2006.

Deals offered starting at 95 GBP.

Fried_Chicken

20th Jan 2006, 20:45

The Swiss Airline Flybaboo are looking at beggining a Sion-LCY route with a DHC8. One of their DHC8s has certianly been into LCY crew traing recently

Fried Chicken

moku

21st Jan 2006, 00:38

Flybaboo started weekly ski flights just before Christmas on Saturdays, the destination escapes me now.

Moku.

WOWBOY

6th Feb 2006, 17:28

Eastern Airways look set to launch London City to Aberdeen as it is bookable on though their website!!
It seems to be 3/4 daily on weekdays with no weekend services (could be wrong)

mmeteesside

6th Feb 2006, 17:54

When you do go through to book it, it just books you ABZ-NCL then NCL-LCY, and I checked March, May and October to make sure

mmeteesside

Lee@LPL

22nd Feb 2006, 15:02

Is it still the case at LCY that all jets are banned except for the odd few that compy within the noise regs?
The runway is also a large restriction at the airfield aswell isnt it?
Regards Lee@LPL

WHBM

22nd Feb 2006, 17:47

The permitted aircraft (prop as well as jet) are described here :

http://www.lcacc.org/aircraft/index.html

The runway is limited in length but more of an operational restriction is the steep approach required due to obstacle clearence at each end (Canary Wharf towers at the west end, East London River Crossing bridge at the east end - the latter a theoretical item only at present because it hasn't been built yet ! ). Some types which could handle the runway length are unable to handle the approach. It has a knock-on effect on climbout and missed approach capability as well. In addition there are special training requirements for crews.

virginblue

24th Feb 2006, 11:18

As time goes by - I am surprised to see that VLM has been on the route for almost five years now...

Antwerp, 22 February 2006 – VLM Airlines will introduce Business Class on its 6 daily flights between Brussels and London City from Wednesday 1st March, 2006.

Since the launch of the Brussels – London City route in November 2001, VLM Airlines has seen a steady increase in the number of business passengers choosing to fly to the centre of London. Today, the airline offers 6 flights every weekday between these two cities with flights specifically targeting business people who wish to arrive in the heart of London in the morning and return on the same day.

The award-winning airline had already successfully introduced Business Class on its flights from Luxembourg and Amsterdam to London City and noted a substantial demand for Business Class over the past months....

Business Class passengers will receive a full upgrade and be able to make use of the following facilities:

* Access to Business Class lounge at Brussels Airport
* A complimentary Newspaper on all morning flights
* High quality Business Class meals, including a welcome drink onboard
* Fully flexible tickets, allowing for changes and refunds
* A higher hand luggage allowance, up to 15kgs in total
* A higher hold luggage allowance, up to 30kgs in total
* Seating at the front of the cabin

In other news, it appears as if the LCY-LPL has been cut back to four daily flights until the end of March.

virginblue

24th Feb 2006, 14:03

As we are just at it, it seems as if Lufthansa will add an early afternoon flight on the DUS route with effect summer schedule. The flight has been uploaded into the CRS:

LH4828/9 DUS 1300 - 1340 LCY 1410 - 1650 DUS
Type: ATR42-500 opb Contactair / bmi code-share (BD 3132/3).

Good to see that the long struggling route now appears to have taken off. Given that VLM Airlines operated from Dusseldorf Express (MGL) four daily flights from 1996 until 2002 or so, I was always surprised to see how difficult it was to fill flights from DUS to LCY.

CAP493

24th Feb 2006, 17:06

I can't comment on this case - but I am interested in your comments
1. When you say the D328 had to route around the SE of England - do you mean it initially flew the whole STAR via SPEAR for a change - and not being given a short cut through LAM? (A LAM release often causes a much busier workload to Thames - and the TMA NE on 118.82 sometimes have to work incredibly hard to get you down to 4000ft by LAM.
2. Please do not have a go at ATC. It is nothing to do with Thames Radar or LCY Tower. The fact that there are no stands must mean that either the allocation plan is flawed, or someone went u/s on stand.
3. There are plenty of airfields to divert to if the weather is that bad.
4. It is only going to get busier - as Thames is expected to work all the Southend inbounds/outbounds from Southend (probably using 4000ft to get them inside CAS)
5. Everything inbound is descending to ALKIN at 4000ft - from SPEAR/LAM/DET - and Thames have only 3000ft and 4000ft to play with (and an RMA that is tiny - and runs DET-BIG-LCY-DET approx)
6. All the CLN/DVR/SAM/LYD SID's climb to 4000ft.
7. Biggin Hill is getting busier and they use the same levels.
8. I have NEVER seen any airline crews to Thames Radar. (I managed to get LCY to pull a few strings to get me on a Fam flight earlier in the year with VLM who are great!)
Why not come and visit - and you will see just how crowded the airspace is. The safest place for a departure when the sectors are overloaded and pilots want wx avoidance is on the ground. I appreciate that this doesn't help at LCY!
And it's only going to get worse with continually increasing eastbound traffic from LTN (not to mention Northolt). During peak arrival times it's not uncommon for STN and LTN inbounds to be held at ABBOT and LOREL, occasionally even further back at for example, BOMBO. When was the last time that a LCY inbound from the north was - for traffic reasons alone - held anywhere? Or for that matter, flew the full ALKIN STAR??

Sorry, but the guys at LTCC regularly bust a gut to get LCY inbounds down below the LAM hold and LHR departures via BPK, etc., and in doing so have to mix it with LTN departures via BPK and other itinerant traffic. The management at LCY (and the flight crews operating there) need to understand that the continuous increases in traffic at LCY cannot indefinitely accommodate what are in effect 'no delay' full-release approaches into the airport. As for stand congestion and 'full house' situations, again this is a matter for LCY's management and it's Ops Department. LTN on occcasions is also nearing 'full house' situations particularly at peak times if there are significant departure delays. LCY's had it easy up to now, thanks to innovative ATC. But the honeymoon period is definitely approaching its end.

:uhoh:

virginblue

25th Feb 2006, 16:35

It seems as if VLM Airlines is gearing up for the introduction of a 6th daily flight to AMS. This is from Luchtvaartnieuws:

VLM Airlines vliegt met Fokker 50’s vanuit Nederland elke dag elf keer tussen Rotterdam en Londen City. Daarnaast zijn de vluchten tussen Schiphol en Londen City zeer succesvol. “We zitten nu op vijf vluchten per dag, en waarschijnlijk komt daar binnenkort een zesde bij,” zo kondigt Vet aan.

From that article I also gather that VLM now does catering for all their flights at LCY.

deing

26th Feb 2006, 05:32

I see that Netjets now operate the Beechjet into LCY, any info if the Falcon 2000 or other bizjets will/can be certified for LCY ops?

Thks,
Deing

Fried_Chicken

26th Feb 2006, 11:42

I see that Netjets now operate the Beechjet into LCY, any info if the Falcon 2000 or other bizjets will/can be certified for LCY ops?
Thks,
Deing

I believe Raytheon are looking at getting the Beech 390 Premier certified for London City.

Cessna will presumably get the Cessna 510 Mustang certified at some point & presumably some of the other VLJ's will also be certified.

Fried Chicken

virginblue

14th Mar 2006, 20:30

- According to Amadeus, VLM will replace the Fokker 50on the LUX route with an ARJ effective mid-may (anyone if this will be a wet-lease and what the source will be?)

- Airliner World reports that CLub328 will have the FD328-300 certified for LCY ops soon.

moku

14th Mar 2006, 20:43

BA Connect are to increase the number of rtns to EDI to 7, and starting MAY fly daily to Milan......

virginblue

14th Mar 2006, 20:59

Hmmm, the Milan service is a once daily late morning flight to MXP. A double-daily to Linate might work, but this... ?

The VLM Avro, by the way, is uploaded into the CRS as a RJ70. Maybe one of the ex Euromanx RJ70s - are these still at EXT at the moment ? As there are only 11 RJ70s around, there is not that much choice.....

zeronine

14th Mar 2006, 21:38

LCY management anticipate that the A318 shall be certified for operation at LCY before the end of 2006. The Embraer 170 has already been tested and i believe it has been certified for operation at LCY although no airlines currently operate the type at LCY. It will be interesting to see how the airport copes with these aircraft. They are not compatible with the current equipment and turn-around procedures. There will be a need to push back these aircraft onto stand. Currently there only a few Tugs and drivers.

AlphaWhiskyRomeo

14th Mar 2006, 22:05

Can't imagine the tugs and driver numbers would be a problem, given the maximum number of the above mentioned a/c type that could be at LCY at one time.

Surely you'd only need a max of 2 drivers and 2 tugs available at any 1 time???

virginblue

15th Mar 2006, 08:18

The Embraer 170 has already been tested and i believe it has been certified for operation at LCY although no airlines currently operate the type at LCY.

Wasn't the E175 the Embraer earmarked for certification at LCY rather than the E170 (IIRC, Crossair was the launch customer and made it conditional that the aircraft would be able to serve LCY) ?

loveJet

15th Mar 2006, 08:33

thats what I thought too, but since they cancelled the order, maybe Embraer had second thoughts as to the most likely aircraft to serve LCY.

LCY's masterplan predicts 8 million passengers, 171,000 movements and 25 aircraft stands (nose in) by 2030. There is also a maintenance facility to be built on the northern side of the airfield with associated taxiway. The main runway at 1,319m (1,599m paved) will also have a parallel taxiway.

Terminal will be doubled in size too. New aircraft types that WILL be certified before the end of the year include the ERJ 170/190 and the A318.

BA should really base some of its operation there perhaps with a new order for the A318 - mainline?

virginblue

15th Mar 2006, 09:31

Are you sure about the ERJ190 being certified for LCY ? First time that I have heard of this. I don't have the data for the E190 handy, but the slightly larger E195 requires 1.468m of runway for landings and for a 500nm flight 1.576m of runway for take-off - this compared to 1.157m and 1.273 for the E170.

loveJet

15th Mar 2006, 15:18

...this comes direct from the airport. they presented some material for the local community committee and this is also posted on the committees website.

WHBM

15th Mar 2006, 16:06

Are you sure about the ERJ190 being certified for LCY ? First time that I have heard of this.

Page 6 here

http://www.lcacc.org/committee/170206present.pdf

virginblue

15th Mar 2006, 18:57

This is the performance data for the E190 from EMBRAER's website:

Takeoff Field Length, ISA, SL, MTOW 6,913ft 2,107m
Takeoff Field Length, ISA, SL, TOW for 500nm 4,282ft 1,305m
Landing Field Length, SL, MLW 4,567ft 1,392m

I seriously doubt that this will work at LCY.....

I guess that the E170/E190 remark simply refers to the EJet family in general. Would be quite strange if the E190 was to be certified but the E175 not.

zeronine

15th Mar 2006, 21:51

I think you are right by syaing it refers to the Embraer family.

I cannot remember whether it was the E170/175 but this variant as opposed to the E190/195 has definately been succefully tested at LCY and I believe it has been certified for airline operation at LCY too.

I dont think the E170/175 will be too popular initially as the RJ100 or equivilant BAe146 has a greater pax capacity and is compatible with existing equipment and procedures and does not require pushback onto stand!

virginblue

16th Mar 2006, 10:02

Any news, by the way, on a possible VIE route ? Currently LCY is running a cusotmer survey on the website again. Given that all previous surveys have led to new routes (CPH, ARN, NCL, LBA, MIL), I would guess that something is already going on.

zeronine

16th Mar 2006, 16:53

There is currently no scheduled route from LCY to VIE Vienna. I have not heard any news about this route either. I shall see what i can find out. //
btw anyone know how to update signatures - i cant find the settings!

airmail 1

16th Mar 2006, 17:25

was flying out of lcy yest to edh,had 73 of us penned in the gate.are they going to make these area,s bigger?was quite clostro in there yest.....oh and was held over southend for 15 mins as well on the way back........oh hum.....

Edit: Please refrain from using text speak on PPRuNe it is uneccessary and we think childish. Next example gets deleted.

AlanM

16th Mar 2006, 21:07

JUST 15 minutes?!?!? Lucky you......!! :)

Aircraft may be seeing more of Souffend from 4000ft in the future......

Ace Rimmer

17th Mar 2006, 07:19

Ref The A318 and LCY. I suspect that this is a make or break move for the 318 which hasn't exactly lit up the world sales wise so far. I expect to see it being marketed as a quadrapuff replacement by the summer if it isn't already.

Certainly the programme is gone well Airbus expect certification for steep approaches in the babybus 'within the next few days' and will then move on to LCY specific certification. The 318 has had a series of changes to the FBW architecture to enable approaches up to 7.5 deg (or 2 deg more than LCY) and it works pretty well. I can't imagine they will have any problems with the LCY approval.
From a handling point of view the changes to the FBW architecture mean that there are just a few changes from the normal approach - just a more aggressive flare slightly higher (55ft AGL) which is combined with a simultaneous power to idle move - thanks to the config on final the engines are pretty spooled up on 5.5 deg approach (bout 50% N1).

BTW If you happen to be in Toulouse have a look at rwy 14R/32L you'll notice some blue runway like markings to the left side threshold, touchdown zone... that kind of caper... these correspond to LCY's runway.

BTW the only LCY -able jungle jets are the 135 and the 170- the 175 is a stretch of the 170 for those who don't need LCY, Lugano and Florence capability...

panjandrum

17th Mar 2006, 09:35

"Aircraft may be seeing more of Souffend from 4000ft in the future......"
Well I hope you mean from aircraft flying into and out of Southend Airport.
I'm sure the residents of Southend and Southend Airport would not be overjoyed to see and hear a permanent holding pattern for London City established over their heads. Of course there will be a formal consulation from NATS, wont there...:yuk: Don't want a repeat of the Suffolk saga now, do we?
Question is, who to send the nuisance complaints to, London City, NATS, Alistair Darling or all three?;)

AlanM

17th Mar 2006, 10:33

There already IS a holding facility over Souffend mate - so why would consultation be needed!!?

Log in to the AIS site here:

http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aerodromes/32LC0701.PDF

panjandrum

17th Mar 2006, 11:41

Minimum Altitude 5000ft, not 4000ft.
The EGLC STARs currently all end at ALKIN. Any move to end all the STARs at SPEAR instead of ALKIN I would also call a material change. Mate.

AlanM

17th Mar 2006, 13:54

Which is why YESTERDAY I was holding at 5000ft, 6000ft and the STAR still finishes at ALKIN. It is called an en-route hold. Just about ALL final holds have en-route holds.

They were descended to 4000ft as they left the en-route holding fix (all arrivals into ALKIN have to be desending to 4000ft over spear because of the Stansted Dover departure routeing to the West of SPEAR at 5000ft)

Simple. MATE. :)

virginblue

17th Mar 2006, 15:04

AFAIK the reason why Airbus is pushing so hard to get the Mini-Airbus certified for LCY is not so much airline sales but sales of the A318 Elite business jet.

AlanM

17th Mar 2006, 15:17

Blimey - that will fill the jet centre up!

City asked for one bizjet to be sent around yesterday as the business centre was full of aircraft!!

OpsSix

18th Mar 2006, 12:23

Blimey - that will fill the jet centre up!

City asked for one bizjet to be sent around yesterday as the business centre was full of aircraft!!

They normally use stands 13 & 14 when the Jet Centre is full but this isn't allowed in peak periods. Shouldn't be so much of a problem when the JC apron is expanded across to the fire training ground.

AlanM

18th Mar 2006, 22:35

http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aerodromes/32LC0702.PDF

SANDY is often used - 8d from LYD as shown above

AlanM

19th Mar 2006, 09:34

There are moves afoot to bring in two holds for LCY a bit further out - I won't say where so I avoid upsetting Souffend boy!

ALKIN is an inspired location for a hold - 3000ft blocks LCY inbounds and departures, and would force all Biggin traffic to be outside CAS!!

Genius! :)

AlanM

19th Mar 2006, 16:24

To be fair, the airspace was designed when there were 2 Dash 7s a day there (and they usually had an airmiss around OCK!).

Things have certainly changed at LCY since then - with around 6400 movements in Feb, it is busier than a lot of other H24 airports!

I have formed an escape committee now Mike - the next time you visit you may see me shuffling around dropping earth out of my trouser legs as the tunnelling is well underway!!! :)

virginblue

21st Mar 2006, 17:07

Obviously this has gone completely unnoticed so far (have not seen a LCY press release nor has it been added to the timetable), but Lufthansa are adding Stuttgart to their route map next Monday. Daily flight operated by Contactair on an ATR42/500. Not sure if it will work as it is a noon/time, once daily service.

Anyway, third destination by Lufthansa after FRA and DUS (if one does not count the Cirrus service to MUC). Quite surprising to see that they are now trying STR given that they have pulled the plug on MUC, BER, HAM in the past.

X6 LH 2724 AT5
Stuttgart-Echterdingen (STR) 12:50 - 14:10 London City Apt (LCY)

X6 LH 2725 AT5
London City Apt (LCY) 14:40 - 17:45 Stuttgart-Echterdingen (STR)

WHBM

10th Apr 2006, 09:18

There's a post elsewhere on PPRuNe http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=221053 which describes how Chicago Midway is installing crushable concrete overrun areas, principally after the Southwest 737 overrun a few months ago.

If I recall correctly this is exactly the system which was installed at LCY for some years but was recently all dug up at some expense and replaced by conventional surfacing. Any of those "in the know" aware what the justifications at LCY were for removing it ? LCY is a lot tighter than Midway is.

OpsSix

10th Apr 2006, 18:34

It was removed due to an aircraft somewhere in the US being damaged when it ran into the same material that LCY used. LCY didn't want the same incident happening there.

PARKINGBRAKEON

13th Apr 2006, 22:43

Can anyone tell me the real reason why VLM have chosen to cut their contract with KGS and use Menzies as their ground service provider??

Virgin Blue: The STR flight is a bit of a weird one but from experience it seems to be quite a popular destination. Dont know if it may have something to do with the forthcoming world cup.

PBO

Tandemrotor

13th Apr 2006, 23:22

Maybe because (in my experience at least) KGS don't seem to be up to the job?

Fried_Chicken

15th Apr 2006, 00:50

From 15th May, it appears (From the VLM website) that the Luxembourg-LCY flights are to be upgraded to a BAe146/RJ70. Presumably, LuxAirs Jets are beating the Fokker's on the route?

I'm not sure if VLM will operate the 146's themselves or they will be leased. I think RJ70's have been mentioned so presumably either the ex Euromanx examples or the ex Baltic ones currently stored at Kemble

Fried Chicken

virginblue

15th Apr 2006, 13:48

We discussed this VLM Avro RJ70 saga here a month ago ;)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2453918&postcount=65

The story was picked up by www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl back then and a VLM spokespoerson cared to explain it is all a "misunderstanding" and that there a no plans to operate jets. However, as you quite correctly noted, the ARJ is still in the CRS.

Ed666

13th May 2006, 11:25

Did anybody see the A318 at LCY today?

user error

13th May 2006, 11:57

Yep I did ! - My bedroom faces towards airport runway so got a tad of a fright when I saw (and heard) A318 turning so low from my bed - at one stage we thought it might have been A380 with all the noise it was making :} :suspect: :zzz:

OpsSix

13th May 2006, 13:26

I'd known about it for a few days. Checked his flightplan time this morning and went down after work. He did 2 touch and go's followed by a full stop landing.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris_barrett/FWWIA2.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris_barrett/FWWIA3.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris_barrett/FWWIA4.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris_barrett/FWWIA5.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris_barrett/FWWIA6.jpg

zeronine

13th May 2006, 15:05

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/05/13/Navigation/177/206570/Airbus+A318+makes+first+test+arrival+and+departure+at+London +City.html

panda-k-bear

13th May 2006, 16:27

I became aware of this a couple of days ago so went over on the offchance. One interesting thing, though. He didn't seem to use the published go-around procedure for LCY. Assume this was a requirement due to it being a test flight? I suppose that pushed the aircraft out over populated areas it wouldn't normally overfly - plus TOGA would have been used for the touch and goes, I guess. Those things would conspire to make the flights a bit more noisy than normal. The real take-off (at about 11.30 local) seemed to me to be no more noisy than the 146s or the Avros. It also looked like he used reversers to bring down the speed on touchdown - something not really seen too often at LCY! Overall, looked impressive! :D

user error

13th May 2006, 16:50

I agree the actual take off was no noiser that usual but it was the touch and go's that intrigued me as I wasn't aware of the tests going on today so seeing a plane turning right befor my sleepy eyes was a slightly less usual wake up than what I'm normaly used to.

It was a pleasant sight none the less to finaly see Airbus at LCY :D :D :D

GBALU53

13th May 2006, 19:00

Interesting to hear that the A318 trials at London City Airport went well with two touch and goes and a full stop landing.:ok: :ok:

This would be good news for Airbus but who would be in a position to operate a bus into the City and when.

We do appericate these are only trials but things can happen with a bit of push and shove. (nes pas )

If this information is correct it must be more good news for London City Airport:ok: :ok:

OpsSix

13th May 2006, 19:29

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/05/13/Navigation/177/206570/Airbus+A318+makes+first+test+arrival+and+departure+at+London +City.html

I stood next to the guy who took those shots. Should have seen his camera lens....it was massive !

MANTHRUST

13th May 2006, 21:20

Looks to me that the the chaps with the high viz jackets were a bit too eager to get the chocks in.
Also; has someone done a touch and go on the right hand gas holder?

OpsSix

13th May 2006, 22:28

MANTHRUST

Thats parts of the University of East London

WHBM

14th May 2006, 08:20

Yes, it livened us up as well (could have written "woke us up as well" but would not want to admit to still being asleep at 09.45 !). First time round came right over the house on departure, making a very early, steep and tight climbing right turn straight off the runway end like an airshow display, was notably noisy indeed. Mrs WHBM :) even moved to comment that she was glad the departure path didn't normally go over our house.

Will be interesting to see it in use. Presumably Air France to Paris is the only serious contender at present.

AlanM

14th May 2006, 09:08

More pics here:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=225872

panda-k-bear

14th May 2006, 12:35

WHBM,
Air France are the only ones with the A318 who go to LCY at the moment but as the BAe 146 and Avro RJ are now out of production, I would have thought it might get Swiss and Lufthansa Regional to look into using it. Swiss and Lufthansa both go there today with the Avro and both have A320 fleets already. It could make sense, couldn't it? That could, in the end, push BA to go that way as well...

zeronine

14th May 2006, 13:20

panda-k-bear

Yeah thats a definate possiblility. There is also the Embraer E170 (already steep approach and LCY certified) to contend with the Airbus A318. Both companies receive government subsidies so price may not be the deciding factor to airlines - like you say it will probably have to do with the make of existing fleet.

panda-k-bear

14th May 2006, 15:31

zeronine, the only Embraer already certified for LCY is the 135. They'd like to do the 170 - in fact they sold it to Swiss on the premise that the 175 would do LCY - but it's not a done deal yet. They may well get there - as of today the 170 is neither steep approach nor LCY certified - but it would be a reduction in size compared to the 146 or the Avro. That would mean that, for growth, the only way would be to add frequency. I suppose the A318 would make quite a big step forward and allow growth in a different way. Air France have more than 120 seats on their A318s so that means a growth of 20 to 25%. Not bad! All they have to do is sort out the stand issue.

Buster the Bear

14th May 2006, 15:43

http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxnews&articleid=5642501&subject=companies&action=article

Fried_Chicken

14th May 2006, 20:24

The EMB170 was been tried & tested at LCY, didn't it pass the certification process?

FC

Poontang Luva

15th May 2006, 01:30

Fried Chicken,

Yes it did. I worked at LCY at the time it was doing its proving flights. Was there a number of days.

spanishflea

15th May 2006, 08:11

It did the tests, but as previously mentioned the remaining parts of the process have yet to be completed, and it is still not certified for LCY.

virginblue

27th May 2006, 16:40

Monday 29 May 2006 marks the 20th Anniversary of the ‘Beginning’ of London City Airport. Despite facing many challenges, building began 20 years ago, on Thursday 29 May 1986, when HRH The Prince of Wales laid the foundation stone at London City Airport, which today is still London’s only active airport terminal.

The Foundation Ceremony was particularly memorable as Chief Pilot of Brymon Airways, Captain Harry Gee, brought the concept of a regional city centre airport to life. Harry simulated a landing on what was to be the runway and then made a low level pass along the King George V Dock, causing the crowd and The Prince of Wales to duck!

Work on the £30 million project was under way. The terminal was constructed to a very high standard reflecting its proposed use for business travellers. London City Airport, then unknown to many, set the tone for the redevelopment around the Airport, which was to follow as the regeneration of the Docklands spread eastwards. The Airport opened for passengers on 26 October 1987 with a formal opening by the Queen on 5 November 1987.

Richard Gooding, Managing Director of London City Airport for the last ten years, believes from that day the true potential of an airport in East London was recognised: ”Our location, which when we opened was seen as our major challenge, is now the principal cause of the Airport’s success. Today London City Airport is recognised as one of Europe’s leading airports for business travel, serving many of Europe’s leading financial and commercial business centres.

“The exciting regeneration that East London has enjoyed over the last 20 years is set to continue as area prepares to host the 2012 Olympic Games. We see ourselves very much as part of this exciting future.”

AlanM

27th May 2006, 16:56

.....and the £15m or so gamble by the clever Irishman has resulted in it being up for sale - for an estimated £400m. Good luck fella!!! :)

On a serious note, the growth there has far surpassed what anyone would have imagined. Thursday 25th May 2006 saw 337 movements - an everage of 27 per hour during it's limited day operating.

So - what now? What price BAA to own the whole of London's main airports - esp with 2012 looming, and planning permission for more stands?

Red Four

27th May 2006, 17:34

Do you really seriously think BAA would be allowed to buy it under the monopolies/competition regulations?

AlanM

27th May 2006, 20:06

Frnakly, I neither know nor care.

Just asking a question of whether they would show any intent.

I suppose Regional Airports Ltd could raise the cash by turning Southend and Biggin into Housing estates/business parks.....:sad: :ok:

WHBM

28th May 2006, 08:28

Virgin Blue, nice little summary of the airport. Was it really 19 years ago I walked over (with my still-current next door neighbour) to the opening ceremony one Sunday afternoon, when the Brymon and the Eurocity Express (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0420392/M/ ) * Dash Sevens flew overhead in close formation, then made the first landings. And my first flight out of there was a couple of years later, with Conti-Flug (remember them ?) to Berlin Tempelhof.

* : Roof of Chateau WHBM visible in distance !
London City Airport, which today is still London’s only active airport terminal.Actually I think Heathrow (in London Borough of Hillingdon) would want a bit of credit as well !
The Foundation Ceremony was particularly memorable as Chief Pilot of Brymon Airways, Captain Harry Gee, brought the concept of a regional city centre airport to life. Harry simulated a landing on what was to be the runway and then made a low level pass along the King George V Dock, causing the crowd and The Prince of Wales to duck!Harry had of course actually put a Dash 7 down shortly before at the initially proposed site on the old quay where Canary Wharf now stands. Wonder how it would all have gone had they got that land instead, it would have prevented Canary Wharf going ahead as now.
The terminal was constructed to a very high standard reflecting its proposed use for business travellers.
Actually there are good and bad parts, and a lot of the parts are good. But the stark gate waiting areas are to be honest quite unacceptable, and one day there will be an accident with pax being held queueing on the steps down to them for a long time, it all seems to be caused by calling the pax forward too early. The main departure lounge now runs out of seats at peak times while some of the shops there have the wrong type of goods and seem elegant but pretty much unused. The continuing lack of a business class lounge must be cause for criticism from their very high proportion of such pax.

Can the front doorman have a new top hat please, his current one is now looking motheaten :)

I always used to congratulate LCY on excellent security processing procedures, but just recently, within the last year, they seem to have moved into the queueing league, while one of the two security stations is unstaffed (I haven't used the left hand one for ages now). This is just poor organisation and was a key unique selling point. Don't be cheeseparing, folks, and throw your advantage away for saving pennies.

submariner

28th May 2006, 10:59

I sincerely hope that LCY gets its act together. I use the airport weekly on flights from LPL but the hassle at LCY is becoming so annoying that I am questioning the worth of using the airport.

Over the last month alone:

On arrival, no sign of luggage, when I found someone to complain to, it was found, amongst others, left o/s the terminal.

On check in. Only 1 person on duty with a queue of over 20 people, many getting concerned as they had missed their check-in times because of the delays. (Around 20 minutes for processing at a quiet time of the day).

The Bar area is chaotic and heavily smoke logged. You need to have around 20 minutes spare to get served. If you do, you have no-where to drink unless you stand in the smoking area.

Lack of seating, airside and in the Departure lounges. Will only get worse with larger a/c.

Incorrect information on flight boards and departure boards, leading to confusion. Despite all other lounges being empty, 2A was used simultaneously for flights to LPL and Luxembourg, departing at same time. Both sets checked in....as u can imagine, chaos reigned. Only Luxembourg showing on flight board, different info from tannoy and what staff mentioned.

Staff always surly.

Security area very poor, queues regularly so long as to block the escalator, again surly staff.

Positives:

Good DLR connection now (Does need staffed booking office though). Uncomplicated airport and small distances to walk (unless at higher gate numbers)

Some of these issues can be resolved comparatively quickly and cheaply, so why the problems?

virginblue

28th May 2006, 13:20

@WHBM

Of course not my text, but an official press release. I forgot to add the link:

http://www.londoncityairport.com/index.php?mode=news&action=showStory&sId=966

WHBM

28th May 2006, 16:50

Submariner :

I tend to use the airport on first flights of the morning but can somewhat recognise some of the points you make.

Tend not to do hold luggage but you are right, the collection area can appear quite unstaffed.

Check in delays. Yes, can occasionally happen due to disorganisation, it did to me on a flight to IOM some time ago, three flights checking in at the same desk, most others empty. I believe KGS no longer have the ground handling monopoly, hopefully this will overcome some of the sole-supplier laziness that had been creeping in.

Bar, haven't ever used it. Possibly because it's not inviting enough to attract me. I'll give it a shot next time.

Security queues. Yes, this used to be no problem. I wonder if the security manager has changed. Has someone come in from an airport where queues and the resultant timewasting are considered to be ho-hum ?

DLR. I really wonder what all the fuss is about, the typical LCY passenger is not a typical DLR user. The cabs seem as busy as ever.

Gate 9. Yes, a hike.

virginblue

28th May 2006, 17:22

Whenever I collect another nail in my coffin while travelling through LHR :mad: , those problems at LCY appear to be rather minor.... I will give my business to LCY whenever I have the choice :ok:

tom de luxe

31st May 2006, 00:08

DLR. I really wonder what all the fuss is about, the typical LCY passenger is not a typical DLR user. The cabs seem as busy as ever.
The Shuttel buses are gone, and the Cabs are actually less busy. The DLR platform gets pretty crowded in the am and pm peaks. And while the typical LCY passenger will not be seen dead on a bus, (s)he will most likey hold a season ticket for the tube, if based in the City.

WHBM

31st May 2006, 06:04

And while the typical LCY passenger will not be seen dead on a bus, (s)he will most likely hold a season ticket for the tube, if based in the City.I wonder if this is true. Well over 50% of the LCY pax (including almost all the early am peak arrivals) are visitors to London rather than based here. They will not have tube tickets, maybe do not even know the network. And of the remainder starting their round trip in London, not that many are coming from the office, most seem to come to/from home or other suburban locations. I have asked many fellow pax on the morning departures where they are coming from, am always surprised by the wide catchment area, Kent, West London, etc.

It similarly amazes me just how many LCY pax are making connections to/from Heathrow. In some of the cases (as I give them transport advice) I feel their travel agent must be mad !

Superpilot

1st Jun 2006, 11:11

Is it me or has bizjet traffic out of LCY rocketed (no pun intended) recently? The other day I counted 3 consecutive Citations taking off.

phnuff

1st Jun 2006, 11:55

I used London City at least twice a week for around 6 months and always found it great. Of course, this was about 6 years ago and it really sounds like it has gone down hill since then which is sad because it always made a great change from LHR and its chaos,

AlanM

1st Jun 2006, 13:49

...not actually closed as such - just no-one able to land!!

You could land on either end or depart 28. There were 4x runway 10 departures.... inc a jet from a small Portuguese Bizjet company.....

We soon ran out of aircraft though......:)

All of which meant a few extra quid for Saaarfend and Stansted and a nice quiet morning on 132.7 :)

virginblue

1st Jun 2006, 14:09

The discovery was made at Canning Town, about a mile-and-a-half from the airport, at around 9.30am.

Was that right beneath the flight path ? I mean 1.5 miles is not exactly close..... They surely did not evacuate everybody within that perimeter ?

AlanM

1st Jun 2006, 14:30

We were told 290 degrees 1.0nm from LCY.

WHBM

1st Jun 2006, 15:01

The bomb was beyond the western end of the Excel centre, to the north of the extended centreline, just by where the 28 departures start their turn. way beyond any possible effect.

My father dealt with a few UXBs on his Yorkshire WW2 RAF base. I think if they had suggested suspending flying ops in such circumstances they would have got short shrift from all concerned, and those were a bit more likely to go off !

turnipgreen

6th Jun 2006, 13:04

I had a problem with the airport recently (minor one re queues) and i emailed through their web site (www.londoncityairport.com) Now not sure about you guys but i often wonder if anyone at the end of corporate web sites reads the mail? I have emailed LHR before about problems (30 minute security queue at 05.30 in the morning!!!) and never got a reply. Not only did i get a reply from LCY but they replied with a real person acknowledging my mail within minutes and someone came abck to me the next day with a detailed reply! blew my socks off that did and they have kept my business! so try an email to them and see how they reply.

virginblue

13th Jun 2006, 21:48

News just out that Luxair will replace their Embraer 135 with Q400s from April 2007. Twice the size, but back from jet to prop. Will give LCY a major headache as the Q400 is quite a pain on the apron.

By the way, what has become of the VLM RJ70 saga ?

MarkD

14th Jun 2006, 02:49

VB - if LCY extend the apron for A318 won't that help Q400 too?

OpsSix

14th Jun 2006, 05:00

MarkD

LCY's plan is to have slightly larger stands that enable the aircraft to park nose in. At the moment, the Q400 has it's own stand markings which were worked out by Bombardier and then applied to the ground.

The aircraft can be parked on stands 2-10 but 10 is not prefered.

virginblue

14th Jun 2006, 09:42

VB - if LCY extend the apron for A318 won't that help Q400 too?

Sure. I was more thinking short-term. Is it true that currently only two Q400s can be on the apron at the same time ?

By the way, the Q400 is 5 feet longer than the Airbus A318.

OpsSix

14th Jun 2006, 09:48

virginblue

As far as I'm aware, there are no problems with having more than 2x Q400's on the ramp. However, I doubt they would be allocated next to each other due to possible marshalling/pilot errors.

A Nonny Mouse

14th Jun 2006, 14:55

Isn't it the height of the A318s tail which causes the problems rather than length?

SAS are currently operating the Q400 into LCY without problems. I have not known them have to reposition onto stand because they cocked up the parking (which is more than can be said for some F50 pilots).

What happened to the E170?

It came a long time ago, did its thing and was never heard of again.

TANGO100

14th Jun 2006, 16:24

According to the FT Irish financier Dermot Desmond will this week put London City Airport on the market.
The paper reports that US investment bank Morgan Stanley has been instructed to sound out potential buyers, after Desmond received a number of unsolicited approaches for the airport.

The move comes at a time when interest in UK airports is high, following last week’s acceptance by BAA of a takeover bid from a consortium led by Spanish construction group Ferrovial. The bid valued BAA’s equity at £10.11bn and gave it an enterprise value of £16.4bn or about 15-16 times earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortisation. On that basis, the FT said, London City could attract an enterprise value of as much as £500m, in a probable auction before the end of September.

Morgan Stanley is expected to send out a teaser document this week, with prospective bidders likely to include both trade buyers and infrastructure funds.

The FT put forward German construction group Hochtief, which owns stakes in Sydney, Athens, Hamburg and Dusseldorf airports, and Frankfurt Airport operator Fraport as potential trade buyers. It also suggested Australian bank Macquarie, which advised Ferrovial on the BAA deal and already has a number of UK airport interests, and Spanish construction group Abertis, which beat Ferrovial to the acquisition of London Luton Airport in 2004.

Infrastructure fund interest is expected to come from Australian and Canadian pension fund managers, the paper added, which were involved in both the Ferrovial and Goldman Sachs consortia that bid for BAA, together with government private equity funds from Singapore and the Middle East.

Desmond acquired London City from construction group Mowlem for £23.5m in 1995. Since then, passenger traffic at the airport has jumped from 556k to 2m last year, while the number of aircraft movements has increased from 18,434 to 70,912.

WHBM

1st Jul 2006, 20:08

Nice little airshow this afternoon, well done to all who organised it (which may include some of the regulars here). We just walked down from the house to the north side of the dock and from 14.30 to 16.30 were well entertained, especially by the last act. What does he fly ?

Mrs WHBM :) similarly thought it was well done. I know we were "wrong side" of the crowd line but it was cool to see those rocketing straight down towards us.

Who was that in the helicopter, normally they leave me cold but it was a very entertaining and skilful display.

Nice to see a Spit back in the skies which over 60 years ago they defended. One afternoon a few years ago I found a machine gun bullet when digging in our back garden, which possibly was from a Spit long ago and far away.

Roffa

1st Jul 2006, 20:59

It was Will Curtis in, I think, a Sukhoi 26 at the end and the amazing (he's 73 according to the commentary from Brendan "I'm a pilot" O'Brien) Denis Kenyon in his Schweizer helicopter.

A thoroughly enjoyable afternoon.

turnipgreen

8th Jul 2006, 10:23

yep quite a day and great weather too. Dont know of any other airport in the world that does that kind of thing. Does anyon else? Hope if the airport is sold that the new owners dont stop the fun day from happening a great day for us locals! (pity about the football but that's another story!)

Fried_Chicken

29th Jul 2006, 22:37

I see Luxair have ordered a trio of DHC8Q-400's to replace the ERJ135's for delivery next Year. Looks like the only Embraer products that LCY will get will then be the corparate Legacy model

FC

WHBM

31st Jul 2006, 12:37

The only Legacy I've ever seen in LCY was when Embraer were doing the certification a while ago. Has one ever operated in since then ?

Interesting that Luxair, who presumably acquired their Embraer 135s just for LCY, have found that jets are too expensive to operate and have decided to go back to props on one of the few LCY routes where there are competitive operators and where the jet should have given a commercial advantage. Anyone able to comment how Luxair and VLM shape up to each other on the route ?

Turnipgreen I have been meaning to ask, WHAT happened with the football at the fun day ? LCY defeated by Stansted 8-0 ? Someone booted the ball into the dock ?

DTVAirport

31st Jul 2006, 12:55

Hi all,

I don't understand the issues at LCY.

The way I see it at the moment is that a limited number of aircraft types can operate into LCY due to the approach into the airport?

Also I believe there is an issue with aircraft parking?

Can someone please explain it to me?

Regards.

Cyrano

31st Jul 2006, 12:59

DTVAirport

This page on LCY operations from the airport's consultative committee (http://www.lcacc.org/operations/operations.html) may help bring your understanding up to the ambient level.

virginblue

31st Jul 2006, 16:42

VLM Airlines will up their AMS schedule to from six to nine week-daily rotations with effect Sept. 4. Quite a success given that they only started the route in 17 months ago with three daily flights and compete head-on with KLM. The additional flights from LCY will operate at 0850, 1615 and 1935.

However, LPL now seems to be down to four daily flights. I think at one point it had six daily flights.

JC Ops

31st Jul 2006, 22:24

FlyboyUK

1st Aug 2006, 10:55

New BA Connect LCY-MAD service:

BA Connect will be jetting to Madrid twice a day this winter as the airline continues to expand its route network at London City Airport.

The newest British Airways services to the Spanish capital commence on October 29, and will depart London City at 9.15am and 6.55pm, Monday to Friday, with the evening service also operating on Sundays.

The route complements British Airways’ existing three daily flights to Madrid from Gatwick and five from Heathrow, and is the second European route the airline has launched from London City Airport this year – the other being a daily service to Milan.

The airline’s managing director, David Evans, said: “Madrid is one of Europe’s top five business destinations. There has been strong customer demand for a direct air service from London City Airport, particularly from the financial sector, and once again we find ourselves in a position to be able to respond positively. From October 29, we will offer a fully comprehensive schedule from London City to the vibrant Spanish capital giving more choice to British Airways customers in the South East.

“Today’s announcement is made on the back of our first quarter results, which reflect a pleasing volume growth of 20 per cent on our operation at London City, and puts us on target to carry around 350,000 customers through the airport this year – an increase of 16 per cent.”

Richard Gooding, managing director of London City Airport, is confident the extension to British Airways’ network will prove very popular: "British Airways has a loyal customer base amongst the business community, who will be pleased to learn about the London City - Madrid service. Madrid is a destination we have wanted to see included in our network for a long time. The new British Airways service provides that much needed convenient link to the financial and commercial centre of Spain, which also provides a European base for South American finance."

August 1, 2006

BA Connect, a wholly owned British Airways subsidiary, was launched in March this year operating domestic and European services from l4 UK airports, and has already carried more than one million passengers.

Ends

dwlpl

1st Aug 2006, 11:05

However, LPL now seems to be down to four daily flights. I think at one point it had six daily flights.

Liverpool never had six flights per day.

SD.

1st Aug 2006, 12:41

Hi guys, I have a couple of wannabee questions re: LCY and RJ/146.

I'm nearing the end of my training, just ME/IR conversion and MCC left to do. Do any airlines base crew at LCY? My 'ideal' job would be flying the RJ/146, do you think this unreachable or unrealistic for a retired FI with about 800 hours piston time?

Thanks

SD

Sanjo

1st Aug 2006, 12:46

so does anyone know whether they are reducing anything else to do the MADs or did they have the slots and the aircrafts sitting about anyway?

virginblue

1st Aug 2006, 20:50

How has the once-daily Milan service doing so far ? I am surprised that BA sees sufficient demand for mid-day once-daily flights that should have little appeal to the typical LCY clientele.

By the way, featured in the route survey section on LCY's website currently are Rome and Vienna - sign of things to come (as usual) ?

tom de luxe

1st Aug 2006, 21:33

Interesting that Luxair, who presumably acquired their Embraer 135s just for LCY, have found that jets are too expensive to operate and have decided to go back to props on one of the few LCY routes where there are competitive operators and where the jet should have given a commercial advantage. Anyone able to comment how Luxair and VLM shape up to each other on the route ?

Luxair has good loads, so has VLM - but with Luxair there's only 37 seats on each plane to LCY when they could sell quite a few more on some flights. The Fri evening flight to LCY is usually sold out or even oversold. LG crews the flights two flight crew and two FA's, as does VLM on their 50 seat Fokker 50s - you do the maths.
In fact, and despite of what I just wrote, LCY is already one of the (few) profitable routes in the Luxair network, together with places such as CDG, LHR, MUC, FRA. Luxair at the moment only has 737s, 135s and 145s available, demand exceeds seats on jungle jets, a 737 is usually WAY to big - we'll have a few Q400s please, thank you very much, get rid of some jungle jets (all 135s and some 145s), and use the remaining 737s for holiday flights. Er, our marketing blurb about us having an all-jet fleet? S:mad:d that, we'd rather save the airline.
Good Luck.

virginblue

1st Aug 2006, 23:42

How has the once-daily Milan service doing so far ? I am surprised that BA sees sufficient demand for mid-day once-daily flights that should have little appeal to the typical LCY clientele.

To sort of retreat from my previous posting, the new MAD service is a nightstopper at MAD, so very good timings for business travellers from Spain.

Yak97

2nd Aug 2006, 06:41

tom de luxe

Sorry bit of thread drift, but what will Luxair do about the Man/Dub route, will they keep running it on a 145? A Q400 would seem too big for that?

WHBM

2nd Aug 2006, 07:53

very good timings for business travellers from Spain.
Not so good for business travellers TO Spain. First arrival at Madrid of 13.00 means by the time you get to a Spanish office most of the day's work is done there. I haven't had to go to an office in Madrid for a couple of years but these would not be good timings.

This is a significant LCY problem, it afflicts other destinations like Dublin as well and is why I, within close striking distance of the airport, am often forced up to Stansted :uhoh: just to get a reasonable business day out of the first day of a trip away.

Tandemrotor

2nd Aug 2006, 09:24

WHBM

Good point. The assumption among most airlines is that people want to travel in to LCY in the mornings. Therefore most a/c nightstop elsewhere.

virginblue

2nd Aug 2006, 09:40

alexss

2nd Aug 2006, 10:50

tom de luxe

2nd Aug 2006, 15:34

Not so good for business travellers TO Spain. First arrival at Madrid of 13.00 means by the time you get to a Spanish office most of the day's work is done there. I haven't had to go to an office in Madrid for a couple of years but these would not be good timings.
You'd be surprised about the timing of "morning" meetings in Spain, at least in Castilla/Madrid. 3pm is basically lunchtime, so meetings at 1100 and 1300 are not uncommon. Evenings can be late though :\ Catalunya/Barcelona is a different story.
This is a significant LCY problem, it afflicts other destinations like Dublin as well and is why I, within close striking distance of the airport, am often forced up to Stansted :uhoh: just to get a reasonable business day out of the first day of a trip away.
:8
This is a significant UK problem, simply because of the time difference. To attend "morning" meetings in FRA or ZHR, where "morning" is 8am (or 8:30), or in PAR or LUX, where that means 8:30 or 9 am, you'd have to take-off from a LON airport at 6 am (90 mins flight + time difference + a race in a cab). Now the early slots at LHR are taken up mostly by arrivals, and the flights from STN on FR go to places where you'll have to add more time to the journey from your regional airfield to your actual destination. Also, getting to a LON airport before 6:30 am by public transport means a bus/coach. So I don't think LCY is all that bad in that respect, the ORY, AMS, BRU and LUX flights leave reasonably early for a 9:30 meeting in PAR and a 10am meeting in LUX, AMS or BRU.
It's so much easier the other way round... the 7:05 am from LUX arrives at 7:15 am or so London time, which means I am in the City - never mind Canary Wharf - before most people who are based in London and start at 8 or 8:30 am.

Fried_Chicken

7th Aug 2006, 18:47

I see the LCY-Sandown service has started recently. Anybody know who handles the flight, does it park at the Jet Centre or at the Terminal

FC

AlanM

7th Aug 2006, 19:14

The PA31 freecalled Thames the other day - and departed VFR off 28 turning left for Kenley and then OCK under a FIS at 2.4A.

it was parked on a stand.... looking slightly lost (but I think that was the first or second day of ops)

I have not been in since.

WHBM

8th Aug 2006, 17:38

Nothing on the LCY website (frequent happening with new services) but here's the "airline" website (just a timetable page).

http://www.wightairlines.com/

and here's an account of the first day's trip

http://www.iwcp.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1252&ArticleID=1674485

It seems to be an operation by the IoW flying club. Note "BNW" flight numbers though. The onwards flights to the Channel Islands shown in the timetable don't seem to be running yet.

eyeinthesky

8th Aug 2006, 18:12

Interesting...

Last time I checked, there were some fairly stringent criteria to be fulfilled before you could operate into LCY. These included:

- being trained and certified to operate a 5 degree+ glideslope (and you couldn't practice at LCY so had to go to innsbruck or gamston to do this)
- Commercial twin-crew operation
- the aircraft certified in its AFM for 5 degree+ ILS approaches
and several other things.

As far as I could gather, there were no exceptions for VFR flights.

How did this lot manage to get all this?

WHBM

8th Aug 2006, 18:19

How did this lot manage to get all this?
As far as I recall the "practice strip" with the PAPIs etc set up like LCY is at Gloucester as opposed to Gamston. Not that far from Sandown.

PA31 has operated into LCY for many years so doubtless OK in Flight Manual.

Presume no more work than for the many business jet operators who now go in/out of LCY each day.

chevvron

8th Aug 2006, 18:58

It went in yesterday; worked Farnborough from south coast to about Guildford and would have landed about 10am

Fried_Chicken

8th Aug 2006, 21:32

LEA's Pa34's, Pa31's & King Air's occasionally position into LCY from & to Stapleford VFR so shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Coventry used to have 5.5 PAPI's before Thomsonfly started flights from there. Both Embraer (ERJ135) & Raytheon (BAe125) used Coventry whilst getting type certification for LCY

FC

WHBM

9th Aug 2006, 09:03

This (G-BBNT) is what operated the IoW flight this morning, parked on stand one.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1079425/M/

turnipgreen

15th Aug 2006, 11:00

Are there many pax on this flight then?

turnipgreen

15th Aug 2006, 11:04

I hear on the Canary Wharf corporate grapevine that MAD will work well at LCY. Lots of banks want it and that fits their profile. 2/day is fine to start off with and the demand is probably greater for those coming into London. Nice to see Spain at last from LCY. Don't forget that the David Beckham football academy isnt far away from LCY, so when he's been left out at Real, he can hop over on a plane to his academy!

turnipgreen

15th Aug 2006, 11:07

Anyone heard any more news about the airport sale? All seems to have gone a bit quiet.

virginblue

15th Aug 2006, 13:06

New Routes
In the route survey section currently:
- Barcelona
- Helsinki
- Rome
- Vienna
It must be said that LCY has really made achievements recently adding major European capitals to its network: First Copenhagen, then Stockholm, now Madrid. If LCY is not targeting British Airways with the above, both Alitalia and Finnair have E170s - so maybe a push for getting it certificated for LCY? For all those destinations a prop certainly is out of question (maybe a Q400 for VIE, although an OS Fokker 70 would be more suitable).
.
.
.
Airport Sale
My understanding is that two German and two Spanish bidders have shown the most serious interest:
.
FRANKFURT (AFX) - Hochtief (Nachrichten/Aktienkurs) AG and Fraport (Nachrichten/Aktienkurs) AG of Germany are both interested in buying London's City Airport, although neither has yet tendered an official offer, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung reported, citing unnamed sources.
'We are looking over making an offer for the airport,' an unnamed source at Hochtief told the German newspaper.
Fraport is likewise considering an offer, the report said. A Fraport spokesperson told the newspaper, however, that no concrete talks have been held.
A spokeswoman for City Airport told the newspaper that the company has received 'several queries from investors' interested in acquiring the airport.
19JUN06
.
.
.
Security
How has LCY been dealing with the security issue ? Most traveller only have carry-ons - and carry-ons of a type they are probably not keen to check-in (laptops, documents, PDAs etc.)

WHBM

15th Aug 2006, 13:08

Who would invest in an airport in the current uncertainty ? Will probably snooker anything for a while, good revenues notwithstanding.

Pleased to see LCY is rolling along just as normal today. What a good thing the airport almost certainly could not be sold to BAA :)

virginblue

16th Aug 2006, 20:34

Airliner World has a short news article that EMBRAER is gearing up to get the E190 certificated for steep approach and AW links that to LCY. Quite surprised to read that as I always thought that the E190 needs much more runway than LCY has on offer. In all fairness, it must be said that the article says that EMBRAER will start steep approach trials and it then says this will enable the type to be used from LCY in 2008. LCY might be AW's interpretation and given that the same issue also talks about the "island of Gibraltar" :ugh: , it might be one of the well-known AW mistakes.....

Article also says that the E170 should finally be approved by the end of 2006.

99palnes99

17th Aug 2006, 12:10

What do you think the chances of an airline fling to CWL-LCY as i used the Air Wales service and actually quite miss it. Thanks in advance:ok:

turnipgreen

26th Aug 2006, 10:57

What do you think the chances of an airline fling to CWL-LCY as i used the Air Wales service and actually quite miss it. Thanks in advance:ok:

About as much chance as I have of winning the lottery!. Train was/Is too much competition

turnipgreen

26th Aug 2006, 10:59

pretty good. i saw management in there helping out when travelling through. some guy with a business development hi viz, was clearing glasses! wouldnthappen at LHR i'd bet

BAforever

26th Aug 2006, 17:45

About as much chance as I have of winning the lottery!. Train was/Is too much competition
I know the train leaves a lot of competition, but flying was all so easier than the train, (although the train does leave every 30 minutes). Couldn't BA Connect operate the service?

ragamuffin

26th Aug 2006, 18:13

Flown in and out of LCY for nearly five years now. My logbook shows nearly 1000 LCY rotations! (ok, am an old git)

LCY ATC is among the best in the world. :D

ALL those controllers are razor sharp. ( I hope the SATCO has expressed his concern at the overcapacity at peak periods though )

Rag

Fried_Chicken

27th Aug 2006, 10:05

I know the train leaves a lot of competition, but flying was all so easier than the train, (although the train does leave every 30 minutes). Couldn't BA Connect operate the service?

Wouldn't be enough money in it for a BACON to run a 146 on the flight! Certianly wouldn't last.

If somebody were to operate LCY-CWL, it'll probably be Eastern with a Jetstream 41.

I take it NCL-LCY is going well for Eastern? Could LCY see expansion from Eastern although presumably, there would be capacity issues as they would probably like to operate at peak times like everybody else

FC

BAforever

27th Aug 2006, 10:19

Maybe BACon wouldnt make a lot of money on this route lcy-cwl but im sure they could make some. I think easter make take on the route but not any time soon. They dont have enough planes at CWL (only 1) which is overused at peak times and not at all it others.
Also your right in saying it would be hard to get slots at the peak times, but what happned to the Air Wales slots anyway.
What about other differnet UK regional connections from LCY coming in the future and do you think that the routes will suceed? And who will operate them with what aircraft? Will BACon ever expand from LCY into the rest of the UK?:ok:

Jamesair

27th Aug 2006, 16:56

FRIED CHICKEN

The Eastern route seems to be doing ok averaging about 1500 pax a month. It started at 4 x daily(m -f) but they have now reduced it to 3 x daily(m-f) with J41's (smaller capacity) and now got demand and load factor about right.

tilewood

27th Aug 2006, 17:49

In today's Sunday Times Business Section an article states that
Ken Livingstone (London's Mayor) is questioning LCY's future..

He is quoted as saying that the completion of the Crossrail project which will
run from east to west under the capital will "prompt re-consideration of the
future of London City Airport."

He considers that the airport's benefits have to be weighed against the
drawbacks. including amenity loss, environmental harm, and the loss of
development capacity within the Thames Gateway Area.

This comes at a bad time for LCY just when it is being put on the market
for a reported £600 million.

WHBM

27th Aug 2006, 21:39

OpsSix

27th Aug 2006, 22:49

Anyone see this on another forum

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2958026/

reading between the lines, it seems SAS have a problem here. It's not been that hot this weekend (!) Bags left behind because they are getting up to MTOW on the Dash 400 ?

It's exactly the same on the F50's. I dispatched the ANR flight today and had to request more weight from the flightdeck. The aircraft had 36 pax and 41 bags, with the bags weighing in at 476kg.

The original restriction was 18700kg which was then raised to 19200kg. Without the increase, I would have had no choice but to offload bags.

It's not to do with temperature, it's just LCY and it's restrictions as a whole.

WHBM

28th Aug 2006, 07:36

Interesting info, OpsSix. A couple of points.

1. Airlines need to stop thinking that carriage of bags is somehow "optional". For many pax the entire trip is ruined if their bags are not delivered, and if told this is the case they would rather not board at the start and get their fare refunded.

2. I wonder what the effect of the new regulations is in terms of an increase in baggage per pax, especially at places like LCY where so many used to be hand baggage only. Actually much of what now goes into the hold used to go into the cabin. Have the average weights per pax been reduced to balance out ?

3. If an F50 with only 72% load, a destination just over the horizon (167 nm), not a hot day (again !), etc, has to start to leave bags behind you wonder how VLM have managed to build up a successful business at LCY over the years. How do they manage to Luxembourg, half as far again ?

OpsSix

28th Aug 2006, 10:49

1/ I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't be very happy if I flew only to find my bag didn't.

2/ The weights have remained the same but we use the exact baggage weight and not an average. Having the extra bags does help with regards to trimming the aircraft but as I found out yesterday, it can also cause a problem.
Cabin baggage is not weighed although I believe this policy is being looked at as you have a lot of additional weight that is not being accounted for.

3/ Check your private messages ;)

Dash-7 lover

28th Aug 2006, 18:49

BA Forever. BA Connect have no aircraft @ CWL.

CheekyVisual

29th Aug 2006, 07:35

Knowing the economics of BACON RJ operation there are unlikey to be any more UK internal routes. The EDI route is propped up by the RBS contract and the fact that the majority of the crew are now based there. The routes in to Europe MXP, FRA can be operated at a premium. The MAD can't operate full. Believe me I've done the maths ! So I suspect the fares will need to reflect this. The RJ is a very expensive aircraft to operate and needs at least a 60% load factor on internal routes at the yields you can get for them. Just won't get it on CWL, as mentioned train is just so frequent and CWL is the wrong side of Cardiff. BACON have looked carefully at some domestic routes but either just dithered too long til someone else did it or commercial decided the yields just wouldn't cover the cost. The closest one to operation was NCL. Although we should have done MAN, especially when most of the crews were based there ! Starter for ten. Why couldn't BACX as it was then operate a MAN-LCY route. Answer at the end of post.
The other issue is that two more RJs can be returned to BAE next year, and will go, so the chance of any further expansion of routes is limited by an ever decreasing fleet. Rumour is BACON will be run down to nothing with mainline taking over LCY as soon as 318 becomes an option. That is until they claim that it makes no money and pull out !
Answer : If you couldn't make the leap. Because you are not allowed to ever take one potential LHR passenger off the MAN shuttle !!!!!!!!

virginblue

1st Sep 2006, 16:27

Antwerp, 31 August 2006 – VLM Airlines, the carrier with the most flights from London City Airport, will double its flights to Amsterdam next month. The airline, which currently operates six return flights each weekday to the Dutch capital, will offer nine flights each weekday from 4th September, and twelve from 18th September.

VLM Airlines will also increase its weekend services on the route, offering a return flight each Saturday for the first time, and adding a third return service every Sunday.

From 18th September, VLM Airlines will operate 22 flights each weekday from London City to the Netherlands - 12 flights to Amsterdam and 10 flights to Rotterdam. In the first 8 months of 2006, VLM Airlines has seen passenger numbers on its Rotterdam service increase by 22 per cent, to 90,000 passengers, compared to the same period the previous year. The airline's Amsterdam service has also grown considerably with passenger numbers for April - August 2006* up 131 per cent from the same period the previous year. Over 51,000 passengers were carried on this route during the first eight months of 2006

In order to operate these extra flights, an additional Fokker 50 aircraft will enter service with VLM Airlines, taking its total fleet to 16 Fokker 50s. The carrier will also double the number of aircraft stationed at Amsterdam Airport Schiphol from two to four.

Johan Vanneste, Managing Director VLM Airlines, says: "We recently announced an increase to 9 flights each weekday on this route, but analysis of forward bookings and continued spectacular growth has led us to add even more flights between London City and Amsterdam." He ads: "The Dutch market still has large potential for a quality business airline like VLM Airlines, as we see a growing number of business people looking for a fast, reliable and efficient mode of transport when travelling from London to the Netherlands."

VLM Airlines holds a strong competitive advantage at Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, where its aircraft are parked at the gate, meaning that no long bus rides are necessary from remote stands, and the distance from check-in to aircraft is kept to a minimum.

virginblue

2nd Sep 2006, 17:20

CRS now show KLM upping the frequency on LCY-AMS to 8 daily flights. Combined with VLM's 12 daily flights, some serious slaughtering seems to be due....

I am surprised that the airport is able to accept 10 additional peak time flights (6 VLM and 4 KLM) - has the slot situation eased somewhat ?

turnipgreen

6th Sep 2006, 07:58

I know the train leaves a lot of competition, but flying was all so easier than the train, (although the train does leave every 30 minutes). Couldn't BA Connect operate the service?

Re Cardiff and any other route out of LCY, don't forget the most inportant ingredient! DEMAND!! There was no real demand for CWL. Domestic services have to have a good frequency to compete against trains. 2/day just doesnt work for the busines taveller. when i travel i want choice and so do my colleagues.

turnipgreen

6th Sep 2006, 08:06

CRS now show KLM upping the frequency on LCY-AMS to 8 daily flights. Combined with VLM's 12 daily flights, some serious slaughtering seems to be due....
I am surprised that the airport is able to accept 10 additional peak time flights (6 VLM and 4 KLM) - has the slot situation eased somewhat ?

I dont think the new VLM flights are peak are they? My insiders tell me KLM havent applied for extra slots...yet

WHBM

6th Sep 2006, 08:38

I see the LCY-Sandown service has started recently.
We didn't note before that the Isle of Wight route lasted just a couple of weeks

http://www.iwcp.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1252&ArticleID=1721608

Is this the shortest existence of any route at London City - though I guess that the Humberside and, separately, Sheffield operations must come close as well.

virginblue

6th Sep 2006, 18:25

VLM to increase ANR to seven daily flights with effect September 18 - probably also to keep the additional aircraft on the AMS route busy.

ANR at the moment is just 4 daily, but I am pretty certain that it was six daily a while ago ?

turnipgreen

9th Sep 2006, 10:12

I have used them quite a few times from LCY. Very simple and efficiant operation. Nothing smart about it but gets me to my meetings on time! Like them a lot.

WHBM

9th Sep 2006, 11:49

I have used them quite a few times from LCY. Very simple and efficient operation. Nothing smart about it but gets me to my meetings on time! Like them a lot.
Actually I once witnessed a VLM connection at LCY that definitely qualifies for smart, in fact probably one of the smartest bits of airline operation I have ever seen. All sat in the aircraft waiting to depart for Manchester, PA that we are waiting for one more connecting passenger. Delayed inbound arrives from Antwerp on next stand, passenger first off is picked out by ramp agent at the steps and walked across to our aircraft. He had hold baggage ! So stop at hold, identify bag, ramp agent takes it, puts pax up our stairs, bag in hold, door closed, start engines, on time departure.

It must have all been coordinated on the company frequency beforehand, so goodness knows how many people were involved in this one.

airhumberside

10th Sep 2006, 15:59

Airliner World Magazine and CH Aviation mention Air One will start LIN-LCY with a leased Avro RJ70 of Club Air

virginblue

10th Sep 2006, 17:44

Interesting. Aircraft involved would be Avro RJ70 EI-CPK (msn E1260). Looks as if the 12 RJ70 become some sort of a niche aircraft for LCY. Another one used by Transwede on the ARN route.

Will be interesting to see if Air One will give BA's once-daily MXP service a run for the money.

daz211

10th Sep 2006, 18:00

AIR ONE done very well out of STN using B737 tho
until RYR and EZYpushed it out

WHBM

10th Sep 2006, 20:14

Many of the 146-100s have indeed come through London City from time to time (the Euromanx ones were the last time I used one, but I remember being on a Cityjet one getting on for 10 years ago now). But they never seem to last. A route development aircraft it seems, but operators either move on from them or withdraw.

Air One should indeed give BA Connect a run for their money on Milan. Right Milan airport, if they do twice daily much more appropriate times for business travellers, well known in their market, etc. BA have seen the light on Madrid and are going to do it properly, fear they could well be pipped by another operator on Milan.

virginblue

20th Sep 2006, 14:20

Air One Flights uploaded into the GDS:

Milan-Linate starts 12/7 on November 20, 2006
Air One AP 4216: Linate (LIN) 08:40 - London City Apt (LCY) 09:40
Air One AP 4217: London City Apt (LCY) 10:10 - Linate (LIN) 13:10
Air One AP 4218: Linate (LIN) 16:00 - London City Apt (LCY) 17:00
Air One AP 4219: London City Apt (LCY) 17:30 - Linate (LIN) 20:30

Rome-Fiumicino 12/7 starts on January 8, 2007]
Air One AP 4220: Fiumicino (FCO) 08:20 - London City Apt (LCY) 09:50
Air One AP 4221: London City Apt (LCY) 10:35 - Fiumicino (FCO) 14:05
Air One AP 4222: Fiumicino (FCO) 14:50 - London City Apt (LCY) 16:20
Air One AP 4223: London City Apt (LCY) 16:50 - Fiumicino (FCO) 20:20

Torino/Genua 5/7 starts on January 29, 2007]
Air One AP 4224: Citta Di Torino (TRN) 08:40 - London City Apt (LCY) 09:40
Air One AP 4227: London City Apt (LCY) 10:30 - Cristoforo Colombo (GOA) 13:40
Air One AP 4226: Cristoforo Colombo (GOA) 15:50 - London City Apt (LCY) 17:00
Air One AP 4225: London City Apt (LCY) 17:45 - Citta Di Torino (TRN) 20:45

Timings are not exactly great in the morning, but probably they were unable to obtain earlier arrival slots. Anyhow, it would mean three RJ70s on the ground at same time - is there enpough ramp space between 0930-1000 for these additional flights ?

Will be interesting to see how the fares turn out - the utilisation of the aircraft is far from ideal with just four daily legs.

Let's see how Air One will source three RJ70s. There are only eleven RJ70 in operation worldwide, but seven are currently on the market (3 each ex Turkish / airBaltic + the second euromanx example).

virginblue

21st Sep 2006, 23:02

There are some unsubstantiated rumours that Lufthansa will take back the MUC while Cirrus then will operate a new Hamburg service (last operated by Augusburg Airways a while back).

If true, Lufthansa seems to put a focus on LCY. DUS, STR, now taking MUC back.

By the way, any indication if OLT is about to chop BRE now taht Ryanair will operate a twice daily flight to STN ? Not sure if there is enough business traffic to keep OLT who will most certainly loose most leisure travel to Ryanair.

WHBM

22nd Sep 2006, 08:57

Stories in the financial press today regarding the sale of the airport. Said that Dermot Desmond, having paid £20m for it (albeit quite some time ago) is down to final offers around £600m, or thirty times what was paid for it.

I just wonder how the new investors will recoup that sort of money, they will be typically be looking for about £100m per year margin (profit after operating expenses) to justify such investment. I am surprised LCY can generate that much. Anybody seen the latest accounts ?

AlanM

22nd Sep 2006, 09:02

It does seem very expensive - but then with the Olympics coming......

I think they will be operating almost H24 by then - as the noise is the limiting factor for their ops and movement restrictions right now. The politics involved with 2012 will be huge.

Or maybe a buyer has plans for some houses.....! :)

Red Four

22nd Sep 2006, 09:13

Not houses, but maybe a few skyscrapers perhaps?
(you know, the ones that can't be built at present due airport safeguarding)

virginblue

22nd Sep 2006, 09:31

WHBM

22nd Sep 2006, 11:19

Now that would be fun- buy and bulldoze the airport
This was actually a lunatic suggestion from London mayor Ken Livingstone a couple of weeks ago. His rationale was that with the construction of Crossrail (one of his "pet projects", and which all the LCY employees who live close to the airport will be paying handsomely for through their Council Tax bills) then you will be able to get to Heathrow "in a flash", and that LCY will no longer be necessary.

He's obviously forgotten already his speech when he opened the DLR extension to LCY a few months ago and said the new connection was a major advantage for London ......

airhumberside

22nd Sep 2006, 17:12

VLM will start one of their AMS-LCY flights at Groningen (I guess instead of parking it at AMS overnight)

turnipgreen

23rd Sep 2006, 10:31

Now that would be fun- buy and bulldoze the airport :-)

The rumour regarding HAMLCY and HAMMUC seems to be true, travel agents in Northern Germany are already being advised of the new route.

Funny how this forum is always well ahead of the official news regarding new routes.

I get all my route news for LCY from here! I use the MUC service with Cirrus. Its usually full but not a great plane. If they put a jet on ther with LH it will be a winner! One of my colleagues from Germany has told me that he thinks there will be more into LCY shortly as well. Has LCY finally reached the point where it is a first choice now for airlines?

virginblue

23rd Sep 2006, 11:10

Yet unconfirmed, but apparently the MUC route will be operated with a Cityline Avro RJ85 - not the most comfortable of planes since the 5 abreast seating has been replaced with a high density 6 abreast layout, but a jet is a jet is a jet ;)

WHBM

24th Sep 2006, 20:52

One of my colleagues from Germany has told me that he thinks there will be more into LCY shortly as well.
A welcome return would be Berlin. The first flight I ever took from LCY was the old Conti Flug 146 service to Berlin Tempelhof in about 1990. Lufthansa do not have any service from London to Berlin at all. I know politics plays a part in preventing LH returning to Tempelhof (which nevertheless remains open for business) but it would be an undoubted winner for them. The loads were very good back in 1990.

turnipgreen

25th Sep 2006, 12:31

WHBM

As I understand it from a friend whose an analyst (aviation not the other kind!) Berlin has a low yield so hard to make work from LCY? Guess its all the low cost competition? But then BA make it work from LHR don't they?

turnipgreen

25th Sep 2006, 12:33

virginblue

I for one will be using the service! Better than the current 328 I am using.

WHBM

25th Sep 2006, 12:56

turnipgreen

How on earth can a city-pair between the capital cities of the two largest economies in Western Europe, both the largest metropolitan areas in their own countries, and far apart enough that it is not susceptible to surface competition, be low yield compared to say Hamburg or Luxembourg ? And LH has failed to serve it since before the low-costs came on the route.

turnipgreen

25th Sep 2006, 15:36

WHBM

I believe it has to do with the amount of supply into Berlin from London plus the make up of Berlin. The Berliners traditionally only pay low fares. Although the government has been there some time it hasnt attracted all the business you would expect. Finance is in Frankfurt, Media in Hamburg etc. The actual business market in Berlin is small still hence why its low yield.

airhumberside

25th Sep 2006, 20:49

A welcome return would be Berlin. The first flight I ever took from LCY was the old Conti Flug 146 service to Berlin Tempelhof in about 1990. Lufthansa do not have any service from London to Berlin at all. I know politics plays a part in preventing LH returning to Tempelhof (which nevertheless remains open for business)
Could a Cirrus Airlines operated THF-LCY be an option with a LH codeshare? LH already codeshare on all Cirrus services at THF

turnipgreen

28th Sep 2006, 08:25

Isnt THF due to be closed next year?

WHBM

28th Sep 2006, 08:35

turnipgreen

Yet another proposal for this. It's been intended more times than I've had a hot Bratwurst, first proposed in the 1960s when flights were moved over to Tegel, and many more times more recently, but it just keeps rolling along.

It's convenience is tremendous. Even compared to LCY it seems so cool to just walk out of the terminal into an inner city main street, it is like having the LCY terminal building next door to Tower Hill Underground station.

And architecturally, what a terminal building !

turnipgreen

30th Sep 2006, 10:17

Couldnt agree with you more WHBM. I flew in once with contiflug and was amazed. Looked like the toy airport i'd been given as a child. ok so you all now know i like airports!

WHBM

30th Sep 2006, 21:22

Looked like the toy airport i'd been given as a child.
More than possble. The Germans have always been at the forefront of accurately done toys that straddle the boundary with models, and have long exported them. Tempelhof was a national German pride of the 1930s and doubtless inspired such items.

Did you have a couple of Ju52s to go in front of it ? This also brings our relevance back to LCY as whenever the Lufthansa preserved Ju52 comes over to London it always seems to overnight at London City (how does it get round the "allowed aircraft at LCY" regulations ?)

V800

30th Sep 2006, 21:34

Tempelhof was a national German pride of the 1930s

And one of the reasons the current politicians want to close it.

turnipgreen

1st Oct 2006, 15:10

Did you have a couple of Ju52s to go in front of it ?

Nope, but I mustt be seen a a good customer of LH's as they did invite me up on the JU52 once at LCY. That was an experience. travelling about 100MPH, huge windows, an amazing experience! I'm told its the aircraft type that features at the end of Casablanca?

virginblue

1st Oct 2006, 21:55

BER - LCY has been tried, IIRC, thrice in the past 15 years and has failed every time. Little chance for a return, I suppose. On the other hand, both HAM and MUC have made a return as well.

WHBM

2nd Oct 2006, 08:48

:) JU52 ...... I'm told its the aircraft type that features at the end of Casablanca?
Yes although not a proper one, it was built up on the film set. There weren't that many real Ju52's around Los Angeles in 1942 for Warner Brothers to choose from ...... :)

virginblue

2nd Oct 2006, 09:03

Apparently the new Hamburg service will be operated under a wet-lease arrangement by Cirrus on behalf of Lufthansa. There is some unconfirmed information floating aorund that the aircraft will be one of Cirrus' knackered DHC8-100s rather than one of the certainly more comfortable Dornier 328s. We shall see. It looks as if the route will go on sale this week.

As for the MUC, still some uncertainty whether Cirrus will keep operating the route over the winter or Lufthansa Cityline will take over. Latest rumour is that it will remain with Cirrus (which would also explain why they use a Dash 8 on the Hamburg route).

Nice assortment of aircraft on Lufthansa routes.... Dash 8-100s, Dash 8-300s, ATR42-500s, Dornier 328-100s, BAe 146-300s, Avro RJ85s.....

WHBM

2nd Oct 2006, 09:47

Just to show the power of advertising, Mrs WHBM :) and myself were walking up Stansfeld Road (north side of LCY airport) only last night, going home from the DLR station, and I commented on the seeming futility of an Air One poster advertisment for their new LCY-Milan service starting next month on a very isolated bus shelter there which is in the middle of the park. What a mad place to put it.

Mrs W then started discussing how she had always wanted to go to Italy, never been, Mlan would be a good pre-Christmas shopping trip for us in lieu of Paris, fares looked good, etc - and by the time we were home Air One seemed to have gained two pax for their early flights.

virginblue

4th Oct 2006, 11:55

Heard from someone inside Cirrus that MUC-LCY will be axed by Cirrus and there is no information at this point if Lufthansa will take over the route (some doubts as the number of passengers hardly justifies a Q400, let alone a RJ85)

AirLCY

5th Oct 2006, 13:59

Anyone got any def info yet on where Air One are sourcing the aircraft to op the LCY services?

Their prices look pretty high on the net!

spagiola

6th Oct 2006, 23:01

AirLCY

Transwede will operate the RJ70s for Air One.

turnipgreen

7th Oct 2006, 10:18

Rumour has it that LH will be taking on MUC with an RJ85. 2/weekday, 1 on sunday but at different times to Cirrus. LH seems to have big plans for LCY but I agree there is an odd assortment of aircraft!

As for AirOne, they seemed to have advertised the route before LCY has said anything? My experience has been that LCY's web site usually announces these things but it's strangely quiet on their site. Anyone have any views on this?

Hats off to the LCY people that get the routes in though. There are now more than ever before and Mrs Green and I are also delighted by the choice!

virginblue

7th Oct 2006, 19:25

Anyone got any def info yet on where Air One are sourcing the aircraft to op the LCY services?
Their prices look pretty high on the net!

Guess they have to be, given the rather expensive aircraft they plan to operate and the low utilisation of the RJ70s.....

747boy

11th Oct 2006, 13:27

http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/1011/londoncity.html

WHBM

11th Oct 2006, 15:42

City Airport has become one of the busiest transit points in the UK. It is expected to be a hub for the London 2012 Olympic Games. The consortium said the airport was expected to handle 2.4 million passengers in 2006, up 20% from a year ago.
Dear me ! Transit traffic at LCY is virtually nil, it's not a common connecting point at all. And if they just mean general passenger traffic, 2.4m per year puts it a long way down the UK list.

GBALU53

12th Oct 2006, 21:04

virginblue

13th Oct 2006, 16:40

OLT to axe their BRE route with effect 27OCT06 - this undoubtedly thanks to the new Ryanair route STN-BRE, but certainly inevitable after having cut back the route to once daily after Easyjet entered the LON-BRE market.

At least the new HAM-LCY route is an alternative for those heading to North Germany.

Charlie Roy

13th Oct 2006, 22:21

Is this a new service?
Lufthansa direct from London City to Nuremberg :ok:

12345--
NUE-LCY 1100-1230
LCY-NUE 1300-1615

turnipgreen

14th Oct 2006, 10:13

The news that the the docklands airport or London City as some will recognize as is or has been sold to a consortium ffrom America, it is very sad in my view will we lose the identity of it being London City Airport??
With the BAA airports now under the Spanish banner what next??.
There is so much of British Aviation being lost overseas what next??
When the British have a good thing it is always lost watching a tribute to Raymond Baxter to night and his love of Concorde British Aviation is sliding away.:eek: :eek:

What's the difference? Dermot Desmond who owned the airport before was Irish, now it has American owners. LCY hasn't been British since the Mowlem days! This could eb good for LCY. It's pretty busy every time I fly out and new big owners might put up the £'s or $'s to expand the facility. The key thing for the nwe owners is to keep the staff as they represent the culture and soul of LCY. They are smart people the new owners and I am sure they will make smart decisions.

turnipgreen

14th Oct 2006, 10:15

Dear me ! Transit traffic at LCY is virtually nil, it's not a common connecting point at all. And if they just mean general passenger traffic, 2.4m per year puts it a long way down the UK list.

Isn't LCY something like number 8 on the list of UK airports for scheduled traffic? SO not too poor a performance?

virginblue

14th Oct 2006, 11:14

New Lufthansa services
Now oploaded into the GDS:
Munich:
X6 MUC 0620 - 0720 LCY 0750 - 1045 MUC AR8 opb CLH
X7 MUC 1735 - 1835 LCY 1905 - 2200 MUC AR8 opb CLH
Hamburg:
X67 HAM 0745 - 0845 LCY 0915 - 1215 HAM DH1 opb RUS
X7 HAM 1640 - 1740 LCY 1810 - 2110 HAM DH1 opb RUS
Nuremberg:
X67 NUE 1100 - 1230 LCY 1300 - 1615 NUE AT5 opb KIS
For those who usually take their wives to PAR from LCY in the christmas season, NUE might be a nice alternative in December. The city boasts the largest and most famous German christmas market in a nice medieval setting. It appears that return tickets can be had for as little as 60 GBP at the moment.

Possible Terminal Expansion ?
Having experienced again and again how crowded the departure lounge and the terminal nowadays gets, I was wondering if there are plans to use the space between the terminal and DLR station more efficiently ? It currently is only used for a rather useless dead end road, but the space could nicely accommodate an expansion of the check-in / counter area to the east and also an enlarged departure lounge incl. a few shops ?

airhumberside

14th Oct 2006, 15:51

Are LH keeping Stuttgart-LCY?

WHBM

15th Oct 2006, 09:17

Isn't LCY something like number 8 on the list of UK airports for scheduled traffic? SO not too poor a performance?
No 18 in the UK actually, on the last annual figures. Even Liverpool handles double the LCY numbers. Let's not get carried away.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data/2005Annual/Table_09_Terminal_and_Transit_Pax_2005.pdf

virginblue

15th Oct 2006, 11:54

Are LH keeping Stuttgart-LCY?

According to the GDS, yes.

12 weekdaily flights by Lufthansa in the winter to 5 destinations (FRA, DUS, HAM, STR, NUE) - although none of them operated by Lufthansa themselves: 5 by Contactair, 3 by Cityline, 2 by Cirrus Airlines, 1 by Eurowings, 1 by Augsburg Airways.

SWBKCB

15th Oct 2006, 12:13

No 18 in the UK actually, on the last annual figures. Even Liverpool handles double the LCY numbers. Let's not get carried away.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data/2005Annual/Table_09_Terminal_and_Transit_Pax_2005.pdf
The original post related to Scheduled pax - I think the table linked to is for total passenger numbers.

WHBM

15th Oct 2006, 14:08

Although I don't have the figures to hand I don't think LCY's position in the table changes notably if you exclude non-scheduled (often a meaningless differentiation anyway nowadays with carriers like Thomsonfly who sit across the boundary between the two). The airports just above LCY in the table do not have much charter traffic either, and examples like Liverpool don't have much nowadays either, meaning it's still more than double LCY in scheduled alone. The higher percentage charter airports, like Gatwick or Manchester, are sufficiently far ahead that it doesn't matter.

virginblue

15th Oct 2006, 15:35

By the way, there is an interview with LCY CEO Richard Gooding in this weeks ABTN:

http://www.abtn.co.uk/ABTN_Exclusive_Interview_An_Olympic_challenge

Some quotes:

“The new owners are going to want a significant return on their investment, which for us means we are going to have to deliver results quickly. In short, we are going to have to produce more money very quickly by growing the airport faster then we’ve previously been able to do.”

“We are working with our larger carriers such as VLM, KLM and Air France with a view to increasing routes and services.”

Gooding is fearful of the implications that 2012 will bring. “I already know that when all the passengers fly back from the Olympics I’ll have to start worrying about passenger figures in 2013. The new owners will want to know where they’ve all gone and I’ll be trying to explain why the numbers are so awful.