LONDON CITY

[WHBM]

“I already know that when all the passengers fly back from the Olympics I’ll have to start worrying about passenger figures in 2013. The new owners will want to know where they’ve all gone
Are the new owners really so stupid ??

[daz211]

Maybe the new owners thought they were buying LHR, like that American man who bought London Bridge only to find it was'nt Tower bridge:E .

[virginblue]

Aren't the new owners Americans ? Maybe the CEO fears that they have never heard of the Olympics: "Wot, Rick, Goody ole boy - you mean Olympics are kinda like a huge Super Bowl ?"

In all honesty, while there is so much talk about LCY being the gateway for the Olympics, I fail to see how it will work except for some officials and maybe journalists from the continent. From 90 per cent of the world LCY is simply inaccessible as it can only handle short-haul aircraft. From the remaining 10 per cent, capacity is fairly limited as only 100 seaters can get into the airport. LCY will of course enjoy a big boost in passenger numbers, but other airports will be far more important for the Olympics number-wise.

But on the other hand - how about VLM being the "Official Puddle-Jumper Airline Of The London 2012 Olympics".

[daz211]

I can see STN being the main hub for the games, it has a direct rail and road link to Stratford and will only take 30min by rail and 40 mins by road.

[Fried_Chicken]

Presumably during the 2012 Olympics, LCY will be full of bizjets so won't have anywhere to park the airliners anyway :)

Fried Chicken

[AlanM]

....and the wx in summer will be crap, meaning SVFR for the 100s of security/camera helis reducing movement rates at LCY.

Can hardly wait!! :)

Why does RG care anyway - with a fantastic return on yr money I would just walk away myself.

[virginblue]

Does he have shares ? Thought the whole thing was owned by Desmond D.

[WHBM]

how about VLM being the "Official Puddle-Jumper Airline Of The London 2012 Olympics".
And what about the 146 operators being "Official makers of strange noises audible in the stadium as they retract their flaps at 3,000 ft overhead Stratford on a 28 departure".

In case you are wondering, it is indeed very noticeable from Stratford station platform.

[turnipgreen]

[QUOTE=virginblue;2908050]New Lufthansa services
Now oploaded into the GDS:
Munich:
X6 MUC 0620 - 0720 LCY 0750 - 1045 MUC AR8 opb CLH
X7 MUC 1735 - 1835 LCY 1905 - 2200 MUC AR8 opb CLH
Hamburg:
X67 HAM 0745 - 0845 LCY 0915 - 1215 HAM DH1 opb RUS
X7 HAM 1640 - 1740 LCY 1810 - 2110 HAM DH1 opb RUS
Nuremberg:
X67 NUE 1100 - 1230 LCY 1300 - 1615 NUE AT5 opb KIS

Hey this is a big expansion for LH at LCY. I wonder if this is the start of more LH developments or even Star Alliance developments at LCY?

[virginblue]

SAS is a Star Alliance member and has recently started ARN and CPH, Air One is a Star Alliance partner and will soon start LIN, FCO, GOA, TRN, Swiss is continuing to grow at LCY, Lufthansa is doubling its flights.

Almost 40 daily Star Alliance flights to/from LCY soon. Now only Austrian needs to come on board and *Alliance is nicely positioned at LCY.

[A Nonny Mouse]

Maybe you should have a look at the movement figures on the CAA website as oposed to passengers (as the average aircraft into city carries less).

Not bad for a bit of tarmac with a handful of stands. Ahead of Bristol, Cardiff, Liverpool and fast approaching Glasgow.

Also keep in mind that it is only open for about 14 useful hours a day.
Those air traffic controllers really earn their money:)


(that last statement doesn't include you Alan:p )

[WHBM]

I think we are all here pretty much aware of the movement rate at LCY at peak periods. But coupled with the market desire for 0830 arrivals and 1800 departures on all routes, and the seeming saturation of the runway at those times with little scope for additional movements (well done Alan & Co) it is difficult to see how the growth rate can be sustained before the parallel taxiway is completed, and some additional stands as well. Hope the new owners have got some investment plans for this lined up.

[A Nonny Mouse]

As City manages up to 330 odd movements over a 13-14 hour useful period that is still an average of around 25 an hour.

As all departures have to turn the same way (due mainly to buildings and noise) building a parallel taxiway would not increase things much.

The peak hour is 34, so if you bumped up all the off peak hours, that would only increase movements by another hundred or so, problem is that airlines do not want to fly off peak.

Well done Alan and co, keep it up:ok: :ok: :ok:

ps. any chance on +2 on a SR71 going south followed by a F50 going north :rolleyes:

[turnipgreen]

SAS is a Star Alliance member and has recently started ARN and CPH, Air One is a Star Alliance partner and will soon start LIN, FCO, GOA, TRN, Swiss is continuing to grow at LCY, Lufthansa is doubling its flights.
Almost 40 daily Star Alliance flights to/from LCY soon. Now only Austrian needs to come on board and *Alliance is nicely positioned at LCY.

That's true. Any news on Austrian I wonder? And what about the other Alliances. I guess KLM/Air France is Skyteam and just BA for One World?

[Skipness One Echo]

BA Connect have dumped London City to Milan Malpensa. Is anyone surprised?

[moku]

As far as I am aware BA Connect have not cancelled that route. Where did you get that information from?

[turnipgreen]

News to me as well. Whats your source?

[Skipness One Echo]

Retraction!
Sorry I was horribly misinformed and I would like to apologise to all concerned for duff information. My informant now sleeps with the fishes!!!!
Again sorry.

[AlanM]

It's not just the runway utilisation, we are now having to put departures 3 mins apart because of LTMA saturation.

They need to redesign the whole of the airspace to make the airport reach it's full potential. And that is years away.

(Anonny.... you are the best - after that BelgyBird):D

P.S> Can we have an ILS glidepath that works in the heavy rain please..... and some control over the shipping that blocked the approach yesterday (again) and resulted in holding at SPEAR and go-arounds.

[WHBM]

please..... and some control over the shipping that blocked the approach yesterday (again) and resulted in holding at SPEAR and go-arounds.
What shipping is that ? If it is movement into the Royal Docks past the 28 threshhold it is a once-in-a-blue-moon operation anyway, but what control does the airport have over this ? Is there advance notice ?

[MikeStanton]

Hi Im new on here! This is my first post!
I live approx 4nm from EGLC (to the south east) and take interest in the traffic. espically when using 10 as i am on the downwind right hand leg! I also listen to 132.7/128.02 probably to often! . As A pilot I have a pitiful 70 hours in a cessna butdue to cost no licence yet :(

I just thought Id say hello, and a question - is it likely for the airport to extend its operational hours in the future , i.e. earlier arrivals and departures than 7am and later 2030 ???

Mike.

[good egg]

With the new winter schedules coming in i think you can expect a few more arrivals after 2030 and a few more departures before 7. However, not many of them will sound like an E135 with full reverse thrust!

[WHBM]

There is little commercial demand for early departures or late arrivals so no real pressure on the planning restriction the airport has on operating hours (currently 0630 - 2200). After 2100 at present there is little or no traffic.

There has been a notable increase in the number of business jet operations right after 0630 over the last year or so but that is about it.

Schedules with aircraft based at LCY (so early departure/late return) have had a poor reception over the years, many have been tried but apart from one Scot flight to Edinburgh (which I use from time to time and which seems to get low loads) nothing nightstops at present.

[virginblue]

Isn't there a 640ish departure by Cityjet to ORY ?

[juninho12]

Swiss increasing Geneva from 4 to 6 daily. More good news for LCY. :)

[turnipgreen]

There is an early departure to Paris, which I have used a few times. Again low loads but with the AF prices they still may be making money! There used to be a Zurich night stop as well which was quite handy. Would be good if they brought that back.

[MikeStanton]

WHBM

But you do get the odd late arrival, I remember a late running Dash -8 Euromanx 89L from IOM suprised me when I saw it establishing on 28 the other night at about 2130! I had to switch on my scanner to see who it was :)

[virginblue]

Swiss increasing Geneva from 4 to 6 daily. More good news for LCY. :)

Well, LCY-BSL is cut back from thrice to twice daily, so it is a net gain of one daily flight by Swiss:

BSL-LCY 6:45 7:25 12345 LX484
LCY-BSL 7:55 10:30 12345 LX485
BSL-LCY 19:25 20:05 12345 LX486
LCY-BSL 20:35 23:10 12345 LX487

BSL-LCY 6:35 7:15 6 LX484
LCY-BSL 7:45 10:20 6 LX485

BSL-LCY 19:40 20:20 7 LX486
LCY-BSL 20:50 23:25 7 LX487

[WHBM]

Was that an A318 in again yesterday, Saturday 28 Oct, that I just saw fleetingly from a distance ? Different airframe to last time, possibly this one :

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1129765/M/

[AlanM]

The very same aicraft.

Did a few planned (and unplanned!) Touch and Go's for 28. Then left at 1255L ish.:cool:

[WHBM]

That's the departure I saw. How does that square with the airport's ops hours, of closed 1230 Sat to 1230 Sun ?

Just curious.

[AlanM]

They had an extension til 1300L:

AIP:
Winter: † Mon-Fri 0630-2200; Sat 0630-1230; Sun 1230-2200; PH 0900-2200.
Summer: † Mon-Fri 0530-2100; Sat 0530-1130; Sun 1130-2100; PH 0800-2100.

BUT:
Hours are maximum permitted for scheduling purposes. Latest NOTAM defines seasonal
operational hours. Refer to AD 2.20 item 1 c.

WHICH SAYS:
Extensions to opening hours (shown by the latest NOTAM) are available on request to the Airport Director or his representative. Delayed aircraft may be permitted to operate 30 minutes beyond published maximum operating hours shown at AD 2.3 item 1 by prior arrangement. In respect of the most exceptional operational circumstances where aircraft may be permitted to depart after 2230(local) by the Airport Managing Director, pilots should note that there will be no Approach Radar service available after 2245(local).

[virginblue]

Starting 15DEC06, there will be two weekly flights to Sion by "AlpWings", a new Swiss airline operating an ERJ135. Never heard of the outfit - they have a .com website (not sure if I am allowed to provide a link here).

Flight times are FrSu Sion 1500 - 1615 LCY 1645 - 1800 Sion

On Saturday, there will be two flights to/from LGW, btw.

Does the ERJ135 need modifiications to be able to operate into LCY ? If so, the only suitable ERJ135s would be the two Luxair examples and the former Jetmagic bird.

[juninho12]

virginblue

I've done a bit of research regarding these folks. They are based (as in HQd) in Zermatt, which is quite a bit in the woods compared to Sion (don't know the rationale behind that).

Apparently, flights are to be operated by Cirrus, with the airline planning to increase flights on the longrun.

Prices for these flights come out to 1119 CHF (471GBP, 703EUR) return or 615CHF (259GBP, 387EUR) one-way and include the transfer to any resort in the Valais.

Hope they've got some corporate contracts or good contacts with people who are well off, those prices are hardly going to attract the masses (far from it!). Wish them loads of success though.

[Ed666]

Would I be right in thinking that FlyBaboo did charter flights to Sion last winter?

[virginblue]

I've done a bit of research regarding these folks. They are based (as in HQd) in Zermatt, which is quite a bit in the woods compared to Sion (don't know the rationale behind that).

The three people behind the airline are from the tourism industry and from Zermatt. The airline appears to be more or less a spin-off.


Apparently, flights are to be operated by Cirrus, with the airline planning to increase flights on the longrun.

Hmm, interesting. Cirrus Airlines does not have any ERJ135. Cirrus Aviation, the biz operator, has a Embraer Legacy, but it is in corporate layout.


Doesn't Flybe operate charters from LGW to Sion as well ?

[wantabe_crew]

So 2 airlines, 2 x 146 a/c and all have tyres that burst on landing at LCY a day after each other!
Is LCY runway safe?
Are these pilots just landing to hard?
What are the CAA or AAIB doing about this?

Anyone have any ideas before LCY goes for the record and make it 3 a/c, and 3 days after each other?

[ebenezer]

What are the CAA doing about this?

Giving approval for the Airbus 319 to operate into the airport. :hmm:

[Skipness One Echo]

Wow anyone else think wantabe_crew is a journo?
Shock horror plane bursts tyre in ruber flying fiasco
Hold the press

[wantabe_crew]

no not a journo, just a crew member who thinks about not only my safety but all crew and pax, we had to divert to STN last night because of this and hold the night before!

What happens next time will the fire crews get to play lets put out a fire!!

Some thing has to be done?

[pamann]

Some thing has to be done?

Ermmm....

Take a chill pill, it's a burst tyre for gods sake! :ugh:

[wantabe_crew]

YOU MEAN 2 BURST TYRES!

Ya I can take the pill!!

But 3 tyres in 2 days can you say that the runways is safe?

CC89 may have something to say about crew safety on this?

Any union reps out there who comment?:=

[Traffic is...]

Two events in two days does seem a bit uncanny, but I think you're getting a bit excitable to start suggesting the runway is unsafe. Having a quick look at the CAA stats and there were about 7500 movements in July and about 8000 in June at LCY. How many incidents happened over those 15000 movements? I hazard a guess at very few. Put it into perspective.

[George Tower]

This poster has obviously never flown in Africa where the state of airports leaves something to be desired.
I'm sorry but your question is contemptuous and deserves to be treated as such. London City is an amazing little airport. We're talking about two burst tyres for goodness sakes....you obviously here to cause some rubbish.
no not a journo, just a crew member who thinks about not only my safety but all crew and pax, we had to divert to STN last night because of this and hold the night before!

boo hoo hoo you had to hold and divert.......thats all part of running a safe operation, sh1t happens and you plan accordingly. Again it doesnt make LCY unsafe.

[Buster the Bear]

If the CAA have, or are ever likely to permit A319 operations into London City, my fur will turn pink!

I think you mean A318, only a single number wrong, but a totally different aircraft.

Is London City safe? Two tyre bursts and it is not? Swiss bent a 146, far more serious than a flat Dunlop.

Yes it is a safe airport, with safe procedures and safe crew flying the planes in and out.

[HS-125]

It was the same aircraft that was involved in both of these incidents, and also same wheel bogie.

Coincidence? I doubt it - just a technical problem with the aircraft. So next time, instead of jumping the gun - look at the facts.