EDINBURGH

[Bartek]

Would be surprising as ground staff would be clueless
That's a rather uncalled-for slur on the good men and women of EDI, is it not? They are just as capable and professional as any other airport's ground staff.

Anyways, they'll hopefully be getting plenty of practice in with the 787 if the rumoured QR service comes to fruition.

[AtomKraft]

Bartek.

Clearly, you've never worked there!

Wish I could say the same. ;)

[silverstreak]

Etihad are seriously considering EDI from OCT this year with A330 ;)

[airhumberside]

Brochure says B787 operating last SFB/CUN departure of the season in 2014, which once again will be July only

[onyxcrowle]

Hi guys just an unusual question for those of you in the know.
But the start of this thread way back in 2005 mentions an airline abbreviated to GSM. Who were they?, Im guessing they was quite a big player , Also what happened to the new peirs mention at the start of the thread. Did they move thw smaller aircraft in the end did we get new terminal space?.
Its a fascinating read but too long to read every page.
What became of Globespan.
Any sign of new routes from Edi to say HUY or DSA or EMA..
How about jet 2 to Iom

[SealinkBF]

Am sure GSM refers to Globespan.

Globespan went into liquidation following widely reported financial problems, linked to E-Clear who processed their credit card payments.

EDI-IOM is already covered by FlyBE...

[OntimeexceptACARS]

QR and EY mentioned again in the past few days. Be interesting to see who bites first.

[DanGLA]

Today from around 2 o'clock there was a small light aircraft "flying about" the airport in unusual.movements. Does anyone know what I saw? I believe it was the same plane.

Narrow, looked twin prop, wings kicked up slightly towards the end. It appeared to fly downwind of the runway, loop quite tightly back from the east and head north.. I then saw what I thought was the same plane maybe an hour later fly straight across the mid point of the runway and off to the north again? Quite loud and distinctive sounding..

Sorry, I'm no professional.. What was it?

[bracebrace!]

I wasn't at work today so can't answer directly but it sounds like the CAA's 'Calibrator' King Air that flys approaches and then does low level go-arounds before coming back for another go. It's basically testing the accuracy of the airports instrument approach systems to make sure they're up to scratch.

Did it look anything like this?

Photos: Beech B200 Super King Air Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Flight-Precision/Beech-B200-Super/1594399/L/)

[VickersVicount]

"QR and EY mentioned again in the past few days"
Mentioned by who though....:rolleyes:

[Richard Taylor]

DanGLA - I was also thinking the Calibrator.

[DanGLA]

Thanks both, quite possibly, that was certainly the behaviour.. In my mind though, the wings swept up more towards the end.

It was the unusual flying that got me more than anything so I may be wrong!

[supersani]

It was checking the runway lighting. Made 2 passes along each runway in each direction.

I think it was a DA42.

[DanGLA]

Thanks! Da42 looks right

[OntimeexceptACARS]

"QR and EY mentioned again in the past few days"
Mentioned by who though....

I know, rumour and speculation, from inside the airport. Nothing concrete VV.

[Callum Johnstone]

It is certainly the case that EDI's Chief Exec, Gordon Dewar, made a very recent trip to the Middle East, to speak specifically with both Qatar Airways and Etihad:

Edinburgh Airport chiefs seek more routes - Transport - Scotsman.com (http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-airport-chiefs-seek-more-routes-1-2884845)

Time will tell if all the hard work will pay off, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that at least one of them will come through for EDI before the end of the year.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Looks like the Thomson flights to Cancun in July are B763s, not B787s.

That's according to the Thomson booking engine. It directs you to Glasgow flights too, which on similar dates ARE B787 operated.

Hard hat on....:}

[Joe Curry]

Thomson long haul from EDI depletes it's GLA programmes, a predator on long haul leisure flights from EDI will undoubtedly instigate a Thomson rethink. But, a very big but, can a predator challenge those strong High Street travel arms that feed GLA?

[CabinCrewe]

Would be very interested to know specifically how you know the catchment of pax "bankrolling' the GLA services? If there was huge demand ex EDI we woyld have seen it long before now.

[Joe Curry]

If you check the High Street Travel chains windows' around Edinburgh, Fife and the Lothian's you will discover that there are very few charter flights from EDI. This obviously being a legacy of past BAA ownership who encouraged the High Street fleets to base at GLA.

Do you honestly think folk closer to EDI would deliberate choose GLA if flights from EDI were available?

There is however a sea of change with EDI Loco's offering just not flights, but also packages. It will take time and perhaps Loco High Street presence to the current charter flight and package deal prominence by Thomson. Thomas Cook and Barrhead Travel dominance.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Joe, can you tell me what's the difference between BAA encouraging (though I doubt it) airlines such as Thomson and Thomas Cook, and their predecessors, to base aircraft at GLA rather than EDI, and the deals brokered for Easy and Ryanair to base aircraft at EDI?

My answer is that your reasoning is utter bobbins. The airlines decide. The largest outbound tourist market is STILL Glasgow, the largest inbound tourist market is STILL Edinburgh. Now play nice and pretend that there's room for more than one Scottish airport, and I will get back on topic in my next post.

Deal?

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Good to see strong growth at EDI for April, though I guess that with EZY and RYR basing more aircraft, plus VS arriving, its gotta happen.

Heard that BA will end B767 services in the autumn, no doubt the LHR pie is only so big.

[Joe Curry]

The airlines decide. The largest outbound tourist market is STILL Glasgow,

All that is about to change, do you honestly think independent EDI owners will be happy seeing hundreds of thousands potential pax passing their front door and disappearing along the M8? They will compete.
In the past under BAA ownership, they got the money irrespective of which airport Scots chose.
The airlines decision was at the behest of BAA.

[Joe Curry]

Heard that BA will end B767 services in the autumn

Ok this is a rumour forum but links would still be appreciated.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Sorry Joe, you don't know much about how airports and airlines work.

And I didn't say Glasgow would be the ONLY outbound market, just the largest one.

Look at Jet2, they were at EDI long before GLA, and their gig is outbound holidays. Fast forward a few years and look at the 2014 programme. Big numbers, though both airports feature.

This isn't an EDI diss, I'm just asking you to take off the blinkers. There's room for both.

[Joe Curry]

Sorry Joe, you don't know much about how airports and airlines work

Under BAA monopoly ownership? Sorry their record is well documented.

[Joe Curry]

Growth returning.

Edinburgh Airport returns to growth with rise in April?s passenger numbers (http://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/2013/05/13/edinburgh-airport-returns-to-growth-with-rise-in-april-s-passenger-numbers)

[onyxcrowle]

I vote for Edi-Dsa. EDI - Dtv. EDI -MSE EDI-HUy

[Callum Johnstone]

An interview with Michael McGhee, GIP's head of transport, on his future plans for EDI.

£100m investment over the next five years, and new gates to accommodate wide-body aircraft:

Interview: Michael McGhee, GIP head of transport - Transport - Scotsman.com (http://www.scotsman.com/business/transport/interview-michael-mcghee-gip-head-of-transport-1-2945145)

[Joe Curry]

The ability to house wide-bodied aircraft again features as BAA only installed such facilities at Glasgow which has meant Edinburgh being unable to compete.

I think I could be due numerous apologies for even suggesting this in the past?

[LFT]

"The ability to house wide-bodied aircraft again features as BAA only installed such facilities at Glasgow which has meant Edinburgh being unable to compete."

Eh?

[goldeneye]

Eh,

Delta operated the 767 to Atlanta, ATA used the L1011 to Orlando, Air Transat used the A310 and L1011 to Toronto.

This argument is slightly flawed. I thought the real issue with long haul at Edinburgh was the runway length.

[VickersVicount]

EDI has always been able to "house" widebodies, they've just not chosen to be "housed" there. Does Delta, Britannia, American Trans Air, Air Transat, Aer Lingus that they shouldnt have been housed there ?
The facilities are perhaps not perfect but few are.

[LFT]

Didn't EAL operate 747's to Orlando as well?

[Skipness One Echo]

I think I could be due numerous apologies for even suggesting this in the past?
Don't Air France use B77Ws for the rugby? Aer Lingus A330s and before that, B747s? I think pavement load bearing for regular operations was the issue coupled with simply adding loads of shops to a terminal built for shuttle flights to London and commuter flights.

[Joe Curry]

Let's not get confused with wide-body one-offs. As for Florida 747s and TS
A330s which used the old 6a stand., why did BAA do away with it.?

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Because it was at the corner and meant some ground traffic had to drive out on to the taxiway to get past. There was no 2-way traffic head of stand road at EDI between stands 4 and 6, IIRC. When the east side was redeveloped, two stands were made capable of housing large widebodies.

Oh, and the airbridge on 6/6A was a basket case, might have been replaced since I worked there.

But weights kick in again, that's another headache for GIP to tackle.

[VickersVicount]

There was me thinking DL offered regular, daily widebody ops ex EDI without restriction before it was canned due to low loads and unprofitability?

[Porrohman]

If you search PPRuNe for "Edinburgh ACN PCN" you will find a number of posts in this thread, and in a thread in the Tech Log forum, that discuss the strengths and weaknesses of EDI vis-à-vis regular long-range wide-bodied operations.

A brief summary is;

Runway 06/24 is long enough for a decent selection of long range wide-bodied routes with a decent selection of wide-bodied aircraft types but the technical data published during the BAA era indicated that it was neither long enough nor strong enough for all such aircraft to operate at their respective max take-off weights. That said, the most likely potential medium / long-range routes from EDI wouldn't require take-offs at maximum weights or require a longer runway. By way of example, during the BAA era, a reasonable selection of medium and long-range routes would have been possible with non-winglet B763s (using existing main apron stands) and with A332s (if a suitable main apron stand had been created for this aircraft type). A stand for larger wide-bodied aircraft might have been possible by, for example, reinstating stand 6A and/or reinstating the diagonal stand that used to exist between stands 11 and 14. Other potential locations for stands for larger wide-bodied aircraft are conceivable

One of the significant limitations I established after reviewing detailed technical data published by NATS, Boeing and Airbus was that the PCNs of the aprons and (to a marginally lesser extent) the runway (06/24) that were published during the BAA era limited the payload / range of a B773ER quite significantly unless ops were sanctioned with a significant ACN>PCN overload. I checked with BAA to see whether my conclusions were correct and they agreed with my assessment. These PCNs would presumably have been one of the factors that influenced Emirates decision to operate from GLA rather than EDI but other considerations might have also been important. I’m not party to Emirates deliberations on this subject but the PCNs and other facilities at EDI for such flights at the time that Emirates made their decision were demonstrably inferior from an operational perspective (including potential payload / range) to those available at GLA at the time.

As has been pointed out, the SE apron has a number of stands capable of handling larger wide-bodied aircraft however the PCNs of taxiways Lima and Mike that link that apron with Taxiway Alpha had a published PCN, during the BAA era, that prohibited regular use of these stands for long-range wide-bodied ops. B773ERs to Paris and A332s to Dublin for rugby charters and certain other wide-bodied flights were permitted as one-off ops on an occasional basis but take-off weights (and therefore ACNs) for most of these flights would be low compared to long-range ops.

Three main apron stands were (and still are) able to accommodate aircraft up to TriStar / A310 / B752W / B763 (without winglets) size. One of these was almost exclusively a BA shuttle stand. There had been various stands on the main apron over the years that had been able to accommodate aircraft up to B744 size but terminal alterations and apron re-layouts by BAA eliminated all of these at various times over the past 40 years. Perhaps one or more of these stands could have been retained / reinstated (as mentioned above) but BAA chose not to.

Delta operated regular B763 flights from EDI for a time but the arrival time in Atlanta was quite late (IIRC it left EDI at 13:45). Every time I considered using this service, my onward connection arrived in my ultimate destination in USA just before or after midnight. By the time I would have collected my bags and reached my hotel it would be about 2 a.m. or later. As a result, I never used the service and I suspect that many other potential passengers felt the same as me. Whether the arrival / departure time at EDI was constrained by the availability of EDI stands/ slots or ATL stands / slots or some other reason I couldn’t say for certain, but the two stands that were able to accommodate the Delta B763 were heavily utilised during the morning for B752 ops and, too often, the Delta B763 would arrive and no suitable stand would be available. My suspicion is therefore that the Delta B763 arrival and departure time was constrained by a shortage of suitable stands at EDI.

It's interesting to note that during the week that GIP took over operations at EDI, the PCNs of many parts of the airfield were significantly upgraded without (as far as I know) any physical works having been undertaken. In the period between then and now, further PCN upgrades have been declared (via NATS) and I expect that more will follow quite soon.

Whether or not BAA knowingly understated the PCNs during the preceding years I couldn't say but I was somewhat surprised to see circa 45 year old pavements being upgraded from C strength sub-grade to A strength as a result of a change of ownership before GIP had carried out any physical works. One possible explanation is that GIP technically re-assessed the PCNs of these sections of pavement (perhaps during due-diligence surveys prior to the purchase) but perhaps there is another explanation. It is not clear to me why BAA had not carried out this technical re-assessment many years sooner given their repeated press releases about trying to attract further long-haul flights.

Regardless of whatever BAA did or didn’t do during their period of ownership, the good news for passengers that use EDI is that GIP have invested and continue to invest in PCN and other upgrades and are planning to invest in the stands necessary to allow regular long-range wide-bodied ops. I hope this investment provides them with a suitable return on investment and that EDI’s long-haul route network will see further expansion in the not too distant future.

[Skipness One Echo]

Three main apron stands were (and still are) able to accommodate aircraft up to TriStar / A310 / B752W / B763 (without winglets) size.
Out of curiosity, what stands are these and where does the BA B763 usually park?

[Calmcavok]

I have seen it on 9.

[Joe Curry]

Out of curiosity, what stands are these and where does the BA B763 usually park?

I'm surprised someone with your knowledge of EDI - going by your input here - has to ask?

[Porrohman]

Out of curiosity, what stands are these and where does the BA B763 usually park?

According to www.EGPHForum.com;

Main apron stands that can accommodate a B763 (without winglets) are 2, 4 and 10. Stand 9 is B752 sized (without winglets AFAIK).

SE apron stands that can take wide-bodies are as follows but are subject to significant ACN/PCN restriction because of the relatively weak taxiways that link it to taxiway Alpha. (NB. PCN for taxiway Mike was 31F/C/X/T in BAA days and increased to 37/F/A/W/T the week that GIP took over. The increase from 31 to 37 is helpful but the change of sub-grade from C to A is more significant);
17 A/c up to B744 Only when stands 16/18/19 Not in Use
18 A/c up to B764 Only when stands 17/19 not in Use
21 A/c up to B764 Only when stands 20/22 not in Use
23 A/c up to A342 Only when stands 22/24 not in Use

[VickersVicount]

Just as well the low cost AC offshoot have no concerns about regular widebody use for their short peak summer service from EDI particularly with a BA 763 on the ground

[Skipness One Echo]

I'm surprised someone with your knowledge of EDI - going by your input here - has to ask?
Given the BA B763 has only been back on since BMI were bought out and it's one or two flights a day is that a genuine question given I clearly don't live in Edinburgh? I have however been a frequent visitor and user for....ooooh 22 years. I find pprune is useful place to learn, I hope my question did not upset you too much.
Main apron stands that can accommodate a B763 (without winglets) are 2, 4 and 10. Stand 9 is B752 sized (without winglets AFAIK).
Given 2 and 4 are international stands nowadays, sounds like Stand 10 (or Gate 11, why EDI why???), given it's proximity to the BA lounge.

Thanks!

[Porrohman]

Just as well the low cost AC offshoot have no concerns about regular widebody use for their short peak summer service from EDI particularly with a BA 763 on the ground

I suspect that there are less B752 ops nowadays than there were during the time that Delta were operating B763s to EDI so there should be a bit less pressure on stands 2, 4 and 10.

[Porrohman]

SE apron stands that can take wide-bodies are as follows but are subject to significant ACN/PCN restriction because of the relatively weak taxiways that link it to taxiway Alpha. (NB. PCN for taxiway Mike was 31F/C/X/T in BAA days and increased to 37/F/A/W/T the week that GIP took over. The increase from 31 to 37 is helpful but the change of sub-grade from C to A is more significant);

Taxiways Lima and Mike had some significant works carried out on them recently but the PCNs have not been revised yet. I presume that their PCNs will be technically re-assessed in the near future, following a suitable period of use and evaluation, and I expect that this will result in significant PCN upgrades being announced. Assuming that these weaknesses are resolved, the weakest parts will then become the main and SE aprons. The current PCNs of these aprons (72/R/C/W/T) are fine for aircraft such as B744s and A332s but are less suited to B773ERs and A346s. That said, when when GIP re-assessed the older centre section of taxiway Alpha, they discovered that the sub-grade was actually A strength instead of C which had the effect of removing ACN restrictions (on that section of pavement) for any current passenger airliner. It could well be that when GIP get around to technically re-assessing the aprons they discover that their sub-grades will also have consolidated from C strength to A strength during the last circa 45 years.

For full details about technical aspects of EGPH, see the various documents on the NATS web site; NATS | AIS - Home (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=62&Itemid=111.html)

[22 Degree Halo]

Any word on Etihad @ EDI ?

[Porrohman]

Any word on Etihad @ EDI ?

No news yet.

I wonder the extent to which the grounding and delivery delays for B787s have affected the announcement of new long-haul routes at EDI? These issues have not just affected the availability of B787s but have also had a knock-on effect upon the availability of other aircraft types.

[Joe Curry]

May passenger record for Edinburgh

Live traffic blog: Airport passenger numbers for May (http://www.airport-world.com/home/general-news/item/2753-live-traffic-blog-airport-passenger-numbers-for-may)

[Joe Curry]

And now direct public transport from Glasgow City

Citylink :: Green Thinking, Citylinking (http://www.citylink.co.uk/citylinkair.php)

[bos2gla]

Trouble with EDI is that when the Royal Highland Show is on at neighbouring Ingliston, the single single-carriageway road in and out of the airport becomes gridlocked. Yesterday at 5pm it took me 75 minutes to travel from the multi-storey car park to the Newbridge roundabout (2 miles).

Maybe the long suffering council tax payers of Edinburgh will think that £776m is worth being able to get a tram from EDI to the city centre and zoom quietly past the car owners sitting fuming.

Never mind the infinite losses (and the severe dip in profits from nationalised Lothian Buses) Read More.... (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-23002679)

At least at LTN - EDI's LoCo zeitgeist - they have built a dual carriageway in and out of the airport - oh - and they don't have the Royal Highland Show - oh- and they do have a (sort of ) train station. :D

[Joe Curry]

Trouble with EDI is that when the Royal Highland Show is on at neighbouring Ingliston,

Thankfully the RHS season is rather short. EDI's access road problems are not insurmountable. A motorway link from the M8 has been mooted many times and it's also possible that a link from the City bypass will be nodded
through. One cannot expect Scotland's busiest airport to be shackled by
planning constraints. The express bus from Glasgow is just one much needed
transport project, others will follow.

[bos2gla]

Well they will be needed to support the Emirates, Etihad, BA Middle East directs, Chinese and many other routes that you have predicted over the years.:rolleyes:

[Joe Curry]

Well they will be needed to support the Emirates, Etihad, BA Middle East directs, Chinese and many other routes that you have predicted over the years

Me predicted? My role has always been the messenger. Having said that, I did predict that EDI would eventually be Scotland's busiest airport, shoot me if you like.

[bos2gla]

:ok: lol. Ok Joe. You broke the news of direct routes to Middle East and Far East by BA. You broke the news of Etihad etc etc :ok:

[Joe Curry]

lol. Ok Joe. You broke the news of direct routes to Middle East and Far East by BA. You broke the news of Etihad etc etc

You previously stated I predicted them.. Make up your mind...:ugh:

[LFT]

And elsewhere took a hissy re the GLA Airport magazine being distributed east of Harthill -

".....highlighting their need to ponce East Coasters to fill their
empty seats.?"

So, is the Glasgow Buchanan Street - EDI link an attempt to 'ponce' West Coasters to fill EDI's empty seats :E

And more Importantly, does Joe condone this poncing of west coasters? :cool:

[Joe Curry]

Mr LFT, Heartening to know that you read my stuff elsewhere, why reply to
non-related pprune debate here though?

Another thing, the EDI bus is being operated by Glasgow based Scottish Citylink, shouldn't you be having a word with them.?

I think GIP should be praised for sorting out the Glasgow bus direct anomaly with a year of taking ownership. The previous owners had over four decades
to do this but failed.

Very busy at EDI today with Spanish cruise liner transfers, an Aer Europa
332 using stand 17. The Turkish daily 739 reported a medical emergency, requesting an ambulance standing by on arrival. The access road was a nightmare with the RHS, no doubt the latest gridlock will spur action to remedy it.

[CabinCrewe]

If its all to do with Scottish Citylink, why should we be praising GIP ?
I don't like that quote about "poncing to fill seats", I sincerely hope that is not true. Particularly unsavoury.

[Porrohman]

A motorway link from the M8 has been mooted many times

I can't see such a link being much help. If it were to be built, then during busy periods, the M8 in that area would end up being grid-locked even more often than at present. Outside peak periods, there's not much delay going via the A8 to the City Bypass / M8. IMHO there are many more deserving uses for scarce public finances than building a direct link between the M8 and Edinburgh airport.

[Sionnach]

The new citylink bus will take very few pax away from GLA, it may actually take more away from PIK!

EDI has the problem that Glasgow's wealthy tend in the majority live on the west of the city where GLA is much more convenient i.e. Milngavie, Bearsden, Helensburgh, Giffnock & Newton Mearns. GLA problem was the Kingston bridge which in part has been solved! The problem for both EDI & GLA is the M8/A8.

I've read this forum as someone who live's in GLA and works at EDI & I'm disgusted by the petty my airport is better than yours arguments!

EDI has developed a mix of Full Service Euro KL/AF/LH, LCC in U2/LS and ULCC in FR plus the United & freight so the airport is profitable.
GLA has developed smaller Full Service Euro with only really KL, but has developed it's North American & ME routes with US/UA/VS/Air Transat plus of course EK. It also has LCC in U2/LS and of course charter with TCX/TOM. It doesn't do much with freight but has it BAMG & RR. So it's profitable. Do we really want them to destroy each other. Is it so hard for people from EDI to go to GLA to fly to DXB or from GLA to go to EDI to fly to FRA.

So whoever gets Eithad or Air China well done support the route, as I'm example the airports support the economy in both cities.

[farci]

A motorway link from the M8 has been mooted many times as has the now abandoned Edinburgh Airport Rail Link. EARL is the obvious solution for direct access for passengers from across the Central Belt.

But it appears Scottish Govt transport policy accountants are down the back of the couch looking for more bawbees to pay for existing rail improvements never mind the obvious ones like this.

New unnecessary bridges and Commonwealth Games to pay for, don'cha know!

[Joe Curry]

IMHO there are many more deserving uses for scarce public finances than building a direct link between the M8 and Edinburgh airport.

Certainly scarce where Scotland's east coast is concerned. BAA to their credit
wanted to build an access road from the City bypass at Gogar, direct to the airport. Seems where Edinburgh Airport is concerned even private funded
projects are turned down. If you look at the EDI master plan diagrams, there is a link envisaged from the A8 just east of Ratho Station, will that too
bite the serial Edinburgh Airport transport access dust.?

As for funding, it seems no expense is being spared for a 2 week sporting event in Glasgow. An event that will be under-sold ticket-wise by the Edinburgh Festival. Funding it seems is only scarce in the east of Scotland.
(Rant over)

[Joe Curry]

EARL is the obvious solution for direct access for passengers from across the Central Belt.


As was the promised EARL replacement, The Dalmeny Chord. And it looks
suspiciously like the Edinburgh Gateway station at Gogar, is being either abandoned or scaled done. EARL btw would have given direct access from all over Scotland and the North of England.

[VickersVicount]

I am not sure you have basis for any of that. Perhaps you should spare us any more of your "rants". Perhaps you should remind us of the Edinburgh Commonwealth debacle.
Just for the record Joe, are you hoping the 2014 Commonwealth Games are a success for Glasgow ?

[Joe Curry]

Hoping the CG are a success for Scotland? Yes... it's Scotland's taxpayers who are paying the bills.

[Joe Curry]

EDI has the problem that Glasgow's wealthy tend in the majority live on the west of the city where GLA is much more convenient

I would imagine public transport to EDI is the least concern of Glasgow's wealthy.? Think of the millions of visitors who fly annually into EDI, they will be the main beneficiaries of direct public transport into Glasgow City.

[edinv]

Keeping on the Commonwealth Games theme, the then BoT as airport owners in those days installed RADAR at EDI in time for the 1970 commonwealth Games. From Hansard:- 'It is planned to have the radar in operation before the Commonwealth Games begin on 15th July, 1970.'

[LFT]

"Think of the millions of visitors who fly annually into EDI, they will be the main beneficiaries of direct public transport into Glasgow City."

So, to paraphrase you -

".....highlighting their need to ponce West Coasters to fill their
empty seats.?"

And as for Emirates, yield is the factor here, and yield they'll get from Scotland's only true 1st Class operation.

[Skipness One Echo]

Yes... it's Scotland's taxpayers who are paying the bills.
Actually it's the British taxpayer I think you'll find.
Is the airport planning anything special for the launch of Air Canada Rouge?

[farci]

Quote:
Yes... it's Scotland's taxpayers who are paying the bills.
Actually it's the British taxpayer I think you'll find.Och! I like a good punch-up. Round 1:ok:

[Joe Curry]

".....highlighting their need to ponce West Coasters to fill their
empty seats.?"


Where in this relevant forum did I say that?

[Joe Curry]

Is the airport planning anything special for the launch of Air Canada Rouge?

Water Cannons? A knees-up in a local hostelry?

[VickersVicount]

how many weeks is it actually operating..they might be as well to save it for next year ;)

[Skipness One Echo]

how many weeks is it actually operating..they might be as well to save it for next year
Traditional high season Canadian travel, school holidays plus a few weeks was the usual. Good luck to them :)

[Exasperated]

how many weeks is it actually operating..they might be as well to save it for next year

The service will operate three times a week from July 3 until October 18

That makes just under 15 weeks

Ex

[GrahamK]

Believe it restarts in May next year

[figgi_gsm]

Next WED will have 3, (maybe 4 if theres delays) 767 on the ground at one time.

Air Canada Rouge
Thomson Airways
Mearsk Cargo (Star Air)
Maybe British Airways if the Thomson is delayed around 10 mins and the BA is on time.

[VickersVicount]

...how will EDI ever cope :hmm:

[Skipness One Echo]

BBC News - New non-stop flight route links Edinburgh with Toronto (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-23169109)
Air Canada Rouge launch article

[Joe Curry]

Good Video included here

VIDEO ? Air Canada rouge launches new route from Edinburgh : The Edinburgh Reporter (http://tinyurl.com/qc95sma)

[Joe Curry]

Air Canada seem positive?

Clear skies for air Canada's new low-cost carrier rouge in first week (http://tinyurl.com/l9rz6uy)

[VickersVicount]

You'd have to be very worried if they weren't being positive....;)

[Joe Curry]

I only worry that my lottery numbers might never come up.:ok:

[Joe Curry]

Passenger figures - June record

Edinburgh Airport sees passenger numbers grow - Transport - Scotsman.com (http://tinyurl.com/oznl3nw)

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Oxford Airport announced today that Minoan Air will cease operating EDI-OXF with effect from 4 August. Statement is on their website, though nothing at Minoan's.

[Joe Curry]

Scotland’s busiest airport announced today it had passed the milestone for July with a day to go till the end of the month...

Edinburgh airport sees millionth passenger in month - Transport - The Scotsman (http://tinyurl.com/pslmvtc)

[VickersVicount]

...and not the first airport in Scotland to meet the milestone ! ;)

[Joe Curry]

...and not the first airport in Scotland to meet the milestone !

With another day to go perhaps that milestone will need edited?

[LFT]

What's the big deal, GLA had +1m pax in July 2004, 2005, and 2006.

Source - CAA Stats

[Bartek]

What's the big deal, GLA had +1m pax in July 2004, 2005, and 2006
So what happened from 2007 onwards then?

Sounds like a few bears with sore heads trying to spoil EDI's big day :ugh:

[Joe Curry]

What's the big deal, GLA had +1m pax in July 2004, 2005, and 2006.


For one year and one year only in 2005?

[Skipness One Echo]

You're acting like we'ans, stop it.

[LFT]

3 years in a row - Source - CAA Stats

[Callum Johnstone]

You're acting like we'ans, stop it.
Hear hear! I can't help feeling there is something particularly sad about folks feeling the need to dredge up CAA stats from yesteryear as a form of 'retaliation' to this very welcome news from EDI. Insecurity abounds, sadly.

It seems to me EDI will need to look at more EZY and FR expansion, plus some form of Middle East service, to really cement this position and make 'one million passengers in a month' a regular feature of the summer months. Perfectly achievable, I think.

[willy wombat]

Well done EDI - I remember the days when it was Turnhouse and the height of excitement was the daily BKS Ambassador to Belfast (and the Sterling Caravelles trying to stop on the 6000 ft runway - Wednesdays if I recall correctly). However, as one who uses the LGW/EDI route quite often, I was disappointed to arrive last Thursday in the rain and and find a broken airbridge so a walk in the wet required (stand 9 I think) and to depart on Saturday evening, again in the rain, and find no airbridge (not even a broken one) - gate 8 I think. Need to do better.

[GSM763]

How many free stands are there at EDI overnight these days. Arrived on a Ryanair flight late Sunday night and couldn't help but notice that the place looked pretty packed.

[GoEDI]

How many free stands are there at EDI overnight these days

Zilch. Recently FR and TOM inparticular have been having to disembark and nightstop on the cargo ramp. The whole place is in dire need of expansion.

[Skipness One Echo]

Can someone break down the usual nightstoppers by operator/type?

[Porrohman]

willy wombat: there's a NOTAM for stand 9 from 29 July at 06:44 until 11th Auguat at 23:00 (all times GMT);


JETTY ON ACFT STAND 9 OUT OF SERVICE. SAFEDOCK REMAINS AVBL FOR ACFT UP TO SIZE A320. LARGER ACFT WILL BE MARSHALLED ONTO STAND
CREATED: 29 Jul 2013 06:45:00

Source; https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWeb/notamRetrievalByICAOAction.do?method=displayByICAOs&formatType=ICAO&retrieveLocId=EGPH&reportType=RAW&actionType=notamRetrievalByICAOs

[figgi_gsm]

Aircraft i noted on nightshifts last week:

Ryanair: X6 weekday, X7 Weekend
KLM: X1
Thomson: X1
Cityjet: X2
Bmi Regional: X2
BA: X3
Jet2: X4, X5 Weekend
BA cityflyer: X3
Loganair: X4
SN brussels: X1
Flybe: X4

Jetty on Stand 9 has been out of action for around 2 weeks already.

[GoEDI]

Can someone break down the usual nightstoppers by operator/type?

Not entirely sure on LOG, BACF or BM but it's roughly:

7 easyJet (5 319s, 2 320s)
6 Ryanair 738s (7 for July/August)
6 Flybe (4 Q400s, 2 E195s)
4 Jet2 733QCs (although they're on mail runs at night midweek)
3 bmi regional E145s
3 BA (1 763, 1 A321, 1 B734)
3 BA Cityflyer E190s (although I think this goes up to as many as 5 at the weekend when LCY is shut)
2 Cityjet RJ85s
2 Loganair (1 S340, 1 D328)
1 KLM B738
1 Brussels Q400
1 Sunwing 738 (for TOM)
1 VS A320

[HH6702]

With united getting rid of all there 757's within the next 18 months or so does anyone know what there plans are for there New York route?

Will they use the 767 or the new 787?
Can they get the loads needed for the 767?

[Skipness One Echo]

With united getting rid of all there 757's within the next 18 months
The domestic ex United B757s are going soon, not the ex Continental aircraft, they'll be here for a while yet I think.

[Joe Curry]

In case anyone missed the Dreamliner on Thursday:

Here's the approach pic.
All sizes | G-ZBJA | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/joecurry1/9466342384/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

[Bartek]

Busiest month ever for Edinburgh Airport as it breaks the million passenger month (http://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/2013/08/12/busiest-month-ever-for-edinburgh-airport-as-it-breaks-the-million-passenger-month)

Awesome achievement! The busiest monthly total ever recorded by a Scottish airport: 1,082,938.

Annual total now 9.4 million pax. Next big milestone will be the 10 million pax per year. Maybe not long to wait.

[GustyOrange]

That's great news, thanks for posting Callum.

G

[CKT789]

Cityjet ending LCY flights:
CityJet axes Edinburgh-London flights - Business - The Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/business/cityjet-axes-edinburgh-london-flights-1-3045498)
Shame, but not unexpected.

[Joe Curry]

Air Canada Rouge had a good first month according to CAA provisionals for July 2013. TORONTO recording 6190 passengers, 92% loads?

[VickersVicount]

Thank goodness. Low 90's at height of summer for high desnity low cost, anything less would have been criminal. Will be interesting to see how loads do next year for a longer season.

[CKT789]

Terminal expansion:
Edinburgh Airport terminal set for major expansion - Transport - The Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-airport-terminal-set-for-major-expansion-1-3054951)

[Joe Curry]

Edinburgh Reporter Version:


Airport will begin £25m expansion in autumn : The Edinburgh Reporter (http://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2013/08/airport-will-begin-25m-expansion-in-autumn/)

[nigel osborne]

Joe,

Good news about Rouge loads, however seen reports that this service is being heavily subsidized by the Scottish Government and they wouldn't have come otherwise.

Wonder if these are just jealous reports from places that don't have AC Rouge or whether there is some truth in it. If the latter is true wouldl they pull the plug when the alleged subsidies end ?

Nigel

[Skipness One Echo]

I understand the Route Development Fund used by Emirates to start Glasgow was wound up, as the EU was looking closely at such matters. Is there still an ongoing subsidy outside airport discounts?

Sounds like they're doing what GLA did recently, large security area which is great when staffed followed by being coralled through a Duty Free obstacle course. This is the third retail expansion in a decade, I'd be happier if they fixed the bottlenecks at International Arrivals or the road system. Good news from the new owners though!

[Joe Curry]

reports that this service is being heavily subsidized by the Scottish Government and they wouldn't have come otherwise

I recently saw a FOI reply from Scottish Enterprise that stated EK received some £5.4M ?over the years to support their Scottish route. Would they have come otherwise?

I doubt any monetary assistance from the Scottish government is available since RDF ended some years ago?

[frontcheck]

Whilst any expansion is welcome, as someone who works in the terminal every day, it's the International Arrivals and check-in area that needs to be doubled in size (at the least) , additional jettys added THEN look at more shops. :ok:

[Joe Curry]

Personally I think a satellite terminal - fed by transit or the tram - up at the Gogar end of 12/30 is logical giving greater road, rail access than EDI currently 'enjoys'.

Switching International/Domestic terminals could also be on the cards.

I wonder what GIPs future Master Plan will reveal?

[Heathrow Harry]

note how often the words "new retail space occur"

really it's a shopping centre extension

[Joe Curry]

Most major UK airports are beginning to look like Malls. Captive customers
being more likely to buy high-end, high-profit merchandise. A nice little earner for airports in franchise fees. A pity that high car parking charges
deter family day outs. In Edinburgh's case, they face still competition up the tram line at the Gyle Shopping centre.

[Skipness One Echo]

There's nothing visible from landside even if you did take the kids. The original 1977 terminal was blessed with it's own roof terrace and apron views from the ground floor. All gone alas. The operation is geared towards getting peeps through airside asap to spend.
Sadly.

[Heathrow Harry]

trouble is a lot of the spend is in bars...............

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Would have thought the more pressing need was airbridges, wide body stands and the like. Presumably the security move frees up space for lounges, necessary for the long mooted Middle East carrier. But that's not nearly enough.

Like other posters have said the Int Arrivals area is fast becoming a joke.

[silverstreak]

Ultimately, International Arrivals/Departures moving to SE Pier with 4 airbridges being installed (at approx 1 million per bridge). More concrete going down and realignment of stands to be undertaken.

Domestic operations will revert back to Stands 1-5, as per many years ago - BM Stand 1 and BA Stands 2-4. Stands 7-14 will also be used for domestic.

Current BA lounge (opposite gates 10 and 11) will close and relocate to former bmi lounge (gate 5). New independant company who provide lounges to international airlines worldwide, will then take the 'old' BA lounge.

As per recent publicity regarding the extension, and relocation of current security screening area, phase one of the revamp should be up and running by JUN 2014

GIP clearly see the need for improvements and hopefully more good news soon ;)

[Callum Johnstone]

For two months in a row EDI has broken the 1 million passenger barrier.

You're one in two million, have a coffee on Edinburgh Airport! Airport?s delight as August is second million passenger month (http://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/2013/08/30/you're-one-in-two-million-have-a-coffee-on-edinburgh-airport!-airport-s-delight-as-august-is-second-million-passenger-month)

It looks like that terminal extension can't come soon enough.

[Keyvon]

Flybe will operate a new ski-charter flight to Verona this winter, operating on Saturdays, late December through late March on behalf of Thomson/Cristal Ski.

[Keyvon]

Seems like Verona will be linked to Edinburgh almost on a year-round basis.

LS is to announce a new summer seasonal summer service to this Italian destination from 14 May through the very end of September.

[j636]

Edelweiss Air starting a 2 weekly service to Zurich with A320 from next March.

[VickersVicount]

Looking at BM loads on the route it will be interesting to see what putting 180 seats on the route does albeit at a twice weekly frequency during summer months. Presumably its aimed at low cost inbounders.
Im guessing the business orientated BMr route will have gone by next year.

[Exasperated]

Looking at BM loads on the route it will be interesting to see what putting 180 seats on the route does albeit at a twice weekly frequency during summer months. Presumably its aimed at low cost inbounders.
Im guessing the business orientated BMr route will have gone by next year.

This route had up to 5000 pax per month when Crossair operated in 2000 (last full year before they went bust).

Going even further back (pre Crossair scheduled) there was a very successful charter series running throughout the summer. They were operated by MD-80s IIRC.

So running a low cost summer series should work but what is needed is a year round scheduled operation from a higher profile airline. However EZY Basel daily operation may preclude this.

Ex

[OntimeexceptACARS]

That's a nice colourful addition. Did fly with Crossair on the Saab 2000 years ago, was very good to be honest. Pity the times are so early in the the day, makes a weekend break very short, in either direction.

[Joe Curry]

EDI-ORD announced

United Airlines to launch Edinburgh-Chicago route - Edinburgh Evening News (http://tinyurl.com/nzu7qa6)

[VickersVicount]

Lets hope its more successful than some of the other EDI transatlantic attempts ! Slightly odd choice from ORD instead of IAD as with the other CO expansion. Will be interesting to see how it pans out. I presume its seasonal narrowbody. I would expect further revisions to the high season double EWR.

[Joe Curry]

Lets hope its more successful than some of the other EDI transatlantic attempts

I can't see any reasons why a new owner with EDI long haul enthusiasm should not succeed where a previous long haul reluctant owner failed?

[Callum Johnstone]

Lets hope its more successful than some of the other EDI transatlantic attempts !
I'm sure it'll sit very nicely, and successfully, alongside the busiest UK-Newark route outside of London and an Air Canada service to YYZ with very high loads. Great to see Chicago back as a direct destination from Scotland. EDI is doing fantastically well securing new routes. Middle East announcement next, with any luck. ;)

[Skipness One Echo]

Lets hope its more successful than some of the other EDI transatlantic attempts ! .
Lordy and people say I'm negative? Well I am but hey...
United launched Shannon-Chicago this summer and it does appear to have done quite well, quite a distance on the B757 but it's doable easily in summer, winter ops on American's MAN-ORD needed the occasional tech stop. This is replacement for the second Newark (?) clearly, so capacity is capped but still good news.
Middle East announcement next, with any luck.
Spill the beans big boy :)
I can't see any reasons why a new owner with EDI long haul enthusiasm should not succeed where a previous long haul reluctant owner failed?
It's surely a straight swap on Newark for Chicago alas so not actually a capacity increase, that's what they did when they launched MAN-IAD. They need to get the South East pier up to International Standards ASAP, it's a bloody joke as it is.

[edi_local]

It's operating in addition to the 2nd EWR, so 3 UA services from EDI during the summer.

[LAX_LHR]

Interesting to see this is an additional service on top of the 2 daily EWR.

When MAN/DUB to IAD were announced, it was to replace the 2nd daily EWR, so is great to see some actual expansion by United, and not just replacing one with another.

Well done to GIP and EDI. I do hope this does last past the incentive period unlike a lot of LGW carriers that haven't made it past the initial discount period.

[goldeneye]

Air Canada Rouge are increasing the frequency of YYZ to 5x weekly for Summer 2014.

Source (http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=701)

[VickersVicount]

Always thought it could do with a higher frequency. The first shorter season must have been just to test the water. Presumably the higher frequency again is just a summer only service ? The heavy leisure route has never really needed much during the winter.
I see MAN has gone straight in with 5 per week.
So far the newly released Air Transat timetable ex GLA remains unchanged in response at 5 per week with A310s and some A330, plus YVR and YYC on A330's

[fjencl]

Dublin-based Cityjet will withdraw from the busy London City to Edinburgh route at the end of October.

Is there any news of any other airline taking over the route to offer competition.........

[Callum Johnstone]

Commencing summer 2014:

Heraklion, 2 x weekly
Bodrum, 2 x weekly

[cabot]

Does anyone have the flight schedule for Xmas day this year ? How many flights are outbound / inbound and where are they all going to / from.

[PIK3141]

Might I suggest that before Easyjet introduce new flights they get a ground handler who can be bothered to turn up to meet arriving flights not turn up 15 minutes after the aircraft arrives on stand (EZY6918 today) (Menzies on steps), and that EDI bothers to invest in a UKBA area sized for purpose and staffed for purpose ? Might also be good if the hire car village was closer than half a mile away ?

[jarvis123]

:D not just easyJet, seems to be an EDI problem...aircraft arrives...and it seems to take them all by surprise...no one there to meet it.

And then there is the slalom just before the UKBA desks!

EDI pretty pathetic when compared with other european airports.

[rpmac]

Not my experience at EDI -have to say.

[james170969]

I'm flying from Edinburgh to Brussels with BMI on November 5th and back on the 12th. I've never flown from Edinburgh before and now you're all getting me worried!!!
Nothing against Edinburgh but I wish there were flights from Glasgow or Prestwick to Belgium. Flying from Edinburgh is adding about two hours on to my journey each way.

[LN-KGL]

Can't understand why it would two hours extra each way. It takes only 56 minutes by car between GLA and EDI.

[james170969]

I live in Irvine. It will add 2 hours because of the time taken to drive to a car park plus time taken waiting for a bus from there to the airport. If I was able to fly from Prestwick I'd just get a taxi and I'm there in a few minutes.

[SWBKCB]

If I was able to fly from Prestwick I'd just get a taxi and I'm there in a few minutes

But you'd probably be the only one on the flight! :ok:

[james170969]

Well anytime I flew from Prestwick to Charleroi the flight was either completely full or just had only three or four empty seats.

[SWBKCB]

How much was everybody paying? Obviously not enough for the airline with the lowest cost base (?) in Europe thought it was worthwhile continuing.

[Skipness One Echo]

Sorry to be boring and drop some facts in but FR operated PIK-CRL daily for many years before a strategic decision moved all city routes to EDI. It's hardly due to poor loads, just more inbound appeal at EDI. Try and grow up eh?

Seems to have worked well for Scotland and FR but hit PIK overall.

[Joe Curry]

GLA-EDI 56 minutes by car

This option from Glasgow Buchanan Street direct to Edinburgh Airport
might prove beneficial for west-based pax?

Edinburgh Airport now connected to Glasgow city centre with launch of new Citylink bus service (http://deadsmall.com/56C)

[james170969]

Thanks for that Joe. I'll bear that in mind the next time I fly from Edinburgh. Hopefully though, some airline will start flying to Belgium from either Glasgow or Prestwick which would be more convenient for me.

[Joe Curry]

more convenient for me.

Convenience is what it's all about James, choose local whenever you can otherwise airlines will think you like their choice.

[LFT]

Why would west coast pax travel to Edinburgh when they have 2 perfectly convenient airports to choose from?

[PIK3141]

How can you choose one of two perfectly convenient airports when the flight goes from / to Edinburgh ? Do you think we from the West Coast like having to go to an Edinburgh that can't be bothered to have staff meet flights or provide fit UKBA facilities ?:=

[LFT]

Hopefully GLA or PIK can get the Belgian link re-instated asap.

[John MacCalman]

The new bus link to Edinburgh gives Glasgow folk a better choice of airports and flights. It will certainly keep Glasgow Airport on its toes as far as competition is concerned. Although Glasgow is my nearest airport I have used Edinburgh and may do so more often now because of the bus link.

[LFT]

Hopefully they'll introduce a direct Edinburgh - Glasgow Airport service then.

[Joe Curry]

Edinburgh - Glasgow Airport service then.

Isn't the 500 airlink service from Glasgow City to GLA currently under-used.? Perhaps operators of a potential Edinburgh-GLA bus link doubt it's viability?

[LFT]

So many questions.

2 operators service the airport, First Glasgow Shuttle 24 hours a day, and First Glasgow Airlink, they should extend the First Glasgow Shuttle onto Edinburgh City Centre missing out Turnhouse.

[VickersVicount]

"Isn't the 500 airlink service from Glasgow City to GLA currently under-used.?"
You have seen the accounts and daily manifests ?

[cabot]

Does anyone have a link as to how many flights are operating to / from EDI this year ?

[LN-KGL]

UK Airport Statistics | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=80&pagetype=88&pageid=3&sglid=3)

You will find the most updated information here.

[Captain Kerthorse]

Hi Folks, any info on an on-going faff with FR6618 off EDI 1425 to Poznan. Was heavily delayed and has has just taxied back to stand again.

[figgi_gsm]

The Poznan is delayed due to EI-DWA being tech from this morning.

[Captain Kerthorse]

Ah presume fault perhaps not cleared then. Many thanks :)

[Captain Kerthorse]

Flight canned for tonight. Pax hoteled and to report back 4am

[Joe Curry]

New EDI book

Airport Talk - View topic - New Book - Edinburgh Airport through time (http://www.airport-talk.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7454&sid=ea07c45c576a2ad3e33922eb471705e6)

[edistevie]

New lights to make new stands going on at the end of the old runway, as of yet don't know how many.

[figgi_gsm]

There will be 5 new stands built in total, capable of handling aircraft upto 738W size...... only one airline comes to mind!

[EK77WNCL]

Just out of interest, is the "old" runway ever used? Because I think it would be very useful especially in crosswinds and with enough headwind it's capable of handling pretty much anything EDI can throw at it as yet, which I believe is up to 767 size. Please correct me if you get anything larger regularly.

Seems a waste of a runway if they don't.

Cheers,
Martin

[Porrohman]

There has been an almost continuous series of NOTAMs in recent years stating that 12/30 is closed to fixed wing aircraft (although helicopters can and do use the aiming point near the middle of 12/30, close to the helipads). To the best of my knowledge, the only times it has been used by fixed wing aircraft in recent years is when there are overnight maintenance works taking place on 06/24, as was the case during 2 weekends in October. Even then, very few aircraft used it as it has no ILS and there are not many overnight movements at EDI.

Block 33, which is the turning area at the SE end of 12/30 where the 5 new stands are being created, is usually used for overflow parking due to the shortage of apron space elsewhere. Aircraft parking there are typically the larger biz jets and any airliners that need to park for more than a few hours.

In theory, 12/30 could become available if there is was a severe crosswind or in an emergency but, in order to do this, somewhere would need to be found to park any aircraft that are at Block 33 and that may prove problematic.

I have a suspicion that the five new stands at Block 33 are a temporary measure to allow work to commence extending the SE apron. Time will tell.

[Skipness One Echo]

It's a nice to have but it's not essential. Birmingham, Heathrow and Glasgow to name three have all closed cross runways in recent years. At LHR they just made it impossible to use by building parking stands at one end and having a long waiting time for these aircraft to be moved if anyone wanted to use it. Glasgow just felt they could do without the expense of having it as a runway and now use it as a taxiway. Only Prestwick really *needs* a cross runway as frankly between October-April, it would simply close to traffic way too often due to hair removing cross winds.
* hint Built runway into the prevailing wind next time :)

At EDI I suspect the cross runway is ideally earmarked for proper off terminal parking.

[willy wombat]

I didn't realsie that Prestwick's cross runway was still open. That obviously adds to the cost of running the airport - see the Prestwick thread for discussion of PIK's problems.

[Skipness One Echo]

That obviously adds to the cost of running the airport - see the Prestwick thread for discussion of PIK's problems.
It would close the airport for days on end to commercial traffic if they closed it, PIK has notorious winter cross wind issues. It would be a false economy to close it, BAA sold it off and dug it up in the 1980s (?), I remember walking across it as a ploughed field. It was brought back by necessity.

[willy wombat]

I know about the crosswinds - I remember seeing DC8s and 707s landing on the cross runway in the 1960s even though, IIRC, its only 6,000ft long. I just meant that the requirement to maintain two runways will make it even harder for PIK to achieve profitability. Anyway, we'd better stop this dicussion here or JC will complain that the EDI thread has been hijacked.

[VickersVicount]

...but unlike other forums this is not a one man show...:rolleyes:

[The Hypnoboon]

There's footage of an AN-124 taking off from the secondary runway at Prestwick, an impressive feat...

[LFT]

...and a 747 has landed on it.

[Porrohman]

12/30 isn't of great benefit to EDI for a variety of reasons including the lack of ILS, poor alignment to prevailing winds, noise issues and potential conflict with any traffic using 06/24 and nearby taxiways.

Aircraft cannot land on runway 12/30 or take-off from runway 30 if there is any potential conflict with aircraft using 06/24 or adjacent taxiways e.g. in the event of a missed approach, go-around, over-run or simply the fact that the traffic using the two runways cross each other's paths. Departures from 12 don't cause such conflicts so these used to occur quite frequently up until at least the 90s, especially turboprop aircraft which had less of a noise footprint.

If I understand the NATS data correctly NATS | AIS - Home (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=62&Itemid=111.html) , the decision height for the non-precision approach to runway 30 is about 1,900ft, which is about 5 or 6 miles from the threshold and 5 miles from the EDN NDB, due to the proximity of high ground at Hillend.

Decision height for the non-precision approach to runway 12 is 790ft (about 2 miles from threshold) due to towers / masts, presumably including the Forth Road Bridge.

On 13th October this year, 06/24 was supposed to close at 23:00 (BST) for overnight maintenance works. Nine passenger flights were inbound and expected to arrive between 23:00 and 23:55. Cloud-base was broken at 700ft and overcast at 1400ft with 12km visibility and a 10kt crosswind (040 degrees) on runway 12. I doubt whether many of the inbounds (which included a BA B763) would have attempted a non-precision approach to runway 12 in these conditions and, even if they had, I suspect that the chances of a missed approach would have been very high unless they got lucky with a break in the clouds. I suspect that airlines have policies that would discourage or prohibit a non-precision approach in such conditions but I'm not an expert on this matter. Maybe if any professional pilots are reading this they might be able to comment on whether these conditions would be below their airline's minimums for a non-precision approach or whether they would fly an approach in the hope of sighting the runway before reaching decision height.

Whether due to weather or for other reasons (I'm not sure which) 06/24 remained open to accept all of the inbounds.

In the early hours of 13th October, the Thomson B738 from Sharm landed on runway 12 at about 03:45 (BST). If 12/30 is closed permanently as a result of the new stands at Block 33, I wonder whether that was perhaps the final fixed wing aircraft ever to use 12/30?

[Porrohman]

Other shortcomings for runway 12/30 include the fact that there are no parallel taxiways for much of its length and it has relatively weak PCNs (31/F/C/X/T).

[Boeing 77W]

The only thing that precludes you from attempting an approach is an Approach Ban, this means the RVR needs to be above the required minima before passing through 1000ft above airfield elevation. On 12/30 RVR data isn't available and so Converted Met Visibility (CMV) becomes the limiting factor. This requires you to multiple the reported met visibility by a certain factor depending upon the approach lighting system and whether it's day or night. The required visibility for a CAT C/D aircraft (737/A320/767) for the Non Precision Approach to 12 is 3200m and for 30 it's 5000m. All this is based on Jeppesen Plates.

Decision height for the non-precision approach to runway 12 is 790ft
Decision Altitude is 790ft while the Decision Height is 691ft. The cloud base was at a height of 700ft, meaning that the cloud base was actually 9ft above the minimums.

In the case of October 13th both visibility and cloud base were within the limits...just. Even if the cloud base was below limits I don't know of an airline that would discourage pilots attempting an approach. Most crew I know of would 'give it a go' when the cloud base is below the required minimums, especially if it was Broken as you could get a gap in the clouds. But from a commercial/customers perspective, it makes sense for the airport to delay the works if they can seeing as the cloud base was right on the limit.

[Porrohman]

Many thanks for taking time to reply Boeing 77W. Much appreciated.

[Joe Curry]

Another record month for EDI

Busiest October ever sees Edinburgh Airport top most successful six months on record (http://tinyurl.com/pkk436m)

[Callum Johnstone]

US Airways website seems to be showing a direct EDI-PHL 757 service for next summer.

US784 Dep PHL 20:50, Arr EDI 08:40 + 1
US785 Dep EDI 10:50, Arr PHL 13:35

No official announcement as yet, though.

[Skipness One Echo]

Awesome news for EDI, seems to be an addtion and not at the expense of GLA. Shame it will be for one summer only :)







.....WHEN THEY BOTH come back it will be as American Airlines.
I hope!

[Cough]

All EDI need to do to get better approach capability is pay some wonga and get an RNAV approach designed for 12/30.

Most arriving aircraft I suspect could use it...

[Crazy Voyager]

Why does EDI need "better approach capability"? What would be to gain of using 12/30 more?

Or have I missed something obvious?

[edinv]

From http://airlineroute.net

US Airways from 23MAY14 to 30SEP14 (US departure) is launching Philadelphia – Edinburgh service, on board Boeing 757 aircraft. Service to operate mainly on daily basis.

US784 PHL2050 – 0840+1EDI 752 D
US785 EDI1050 – 1335PHL 752 D

Service operates Day x2 from PHL, Day x3 from EDI from 23MAY14 to 08JUN14, and from 08SEP14 to 22SEP14

[goldeneye]

Thats great news for EDI and US.

[figgi_gsm]

Ryanair recently announced that the DUB-EDI route will increase 4 to 8 Daily. What I ask is, is that 8 return sectors or 4 single trips in each direction? Nothing in the booking system for April yet.

[CabinCrewe]

8 sectors, 4 each way

[ScotsSLF]

I am confused - the top line says 'daily' but from what's posted below this it would appear to leave PHL on a Tuesday (x2), arrive EDI on the Wednesday (x3) and depart back to PHL. This would make it weekly? And it would appear, within two fortnightly slots, making a total of four flights? Have I got this right after a long day??

[Callum Johnstone]

The way I read it was 6 x weekly from 23rd May to 8th June inclusive, where there is no Tuesday night departure from PHL and no Wednesday morning departure from EDI .... then it runs 7 x weekly through June, July, and August until 8th September, whereafter it reverts to 6 x weekly until the end of the season .... sound right?

[ScotsSLF]

Thanks Callum - that makes a lot more sense! It has been a very long day!!

[Callsign Kilo]

RNAV doesn't suffer the limitations of a SRA or NDB. It will allow the 'UW' and the 'EDN' to be removed, which are significant costs. In terms of the limited times that 12/30 is used, RNAV will make it easier for the pilots and controllers alike. There's a lot of verbal in an SRA.

[Porrohman]

Callsign Kilo said;
RNAV doesn't suffer the limitations of a SRA or NDB. It will allow the 'UW' and the 'EDN' to be removed, which are significant costs. In terms of the limited times that 12/30 is used, RNAV will make it easier for the pilots and controllers alike. There's a lot of verbal in an SRA.

Does anyone know whether the five new stands that are being created at Block 33 (the turning area at the SE end of 12/30) are temporary or permanent? Do they have / will they have permanent floodlighting or will the floodlighting be temporary and portable? Permanent floodlighting would presumably prevent any future use of runway 12/30, unless it is designed to fold flat or otherwise be removed when necessary.

Perhaps an arrangement like the movable palm trees in the Thunderbird 2 launch sequence might work. :ok: (I jest, of course :) )

[Jwscud]

Not to mention the minima are fairly high on the SRAs. We had a bit of fun a few weeks back when 06/24 was shut and it was 12/30 late at night. It would also mean when you're flying an NPA on 24/06 you don't end up scaring traffic on the taxiways - the NDB aligns you with the taxiway rather than the runway.

They clearly don't do too many SRAs at EDI Radar either.

[figgi_gsm]

The new stands are temporary and 12/30 can still be used when needed.

[High Energy]

Qatar officially announces 5x a week direct EDI flights with the 787.
Link (http://www.qatarairways.com/english_united_kingdom/press-release.page?pr_id=pressrelease_131120-launch-to-edinburgh)

[figgi_gsm]

About time. This has been a long time coming!

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Good result for EDI, but where will they park it? I can see lots of buses and remote parking for other aircraft unless the infrastructure isn't see to pronto!

[nighthawk117]

Good result for EDI, but where will they park it?


I don't think that will be too much of a problem, the flight is on the ground between 1315 and 1445, which is outside of peak hours. I can't imagine there are too many flights on the ground at that time?

[Skipness One Echo]

It will be parked on an airbridge, blocking as many other stands as required.
There are flights and then there are flights.

In other unrelated news your Jet2 departure to Palma is now bussing to Stand 109. Great news for EDI, firstly Air Canada Rouge, then United to Chicago, US Airways to Philadelphia and now Qatar to Doha, trailblazing with the B787, er.....I might rephrase that.

Mr Curry may have been overcome with the excitement of it all. Would never have happened under a BAA monopoly mind, he was right about that.

Also, unlike Manchester which swapped a United Newark rotation for the new Washington service, United will be three daily at EDI. Who'd have thunk it?

[Richard Taylor]

Excellent news for EDI! Shows what happens when your airport is in the hands of people that want to develop it.

[CabinCrewe]

lets hope its not an incentivised LGW GIP style build it up and flog it off. Havent more of the LGW newly launched long haul routes been dropped than are still running ?

[Skipness One Echo]

Yes but that's one London airport to another, LGW remains LHR's waiting room, though Air China will be back for 2014. This is complementary, US and UA both having GLA/EDI ops and QR opening EDI to the East. I think the North American routes do well as they are nicely seasonal with a year round core.

[nighthawk117]

lets hope its not an incentivised LGW GIP style build it up and flog it off.

GIP have stated publicly that they bought EDI as a short term investment, with the intention of building it up and selling it on within a few years.

[GrahamK]

SAS launching OSL and SVG

[habs_fan]

Should be another record breaking summer at edi. But the check in hall is going to be a bit over crowded and where are they going to park all these aircrafts?

[silverstreak]

QR not getting an airbridge initially in EDI. Will be SE Pier (new stands being built) where coaches are currently parked. Airbridge will become available when installed in due course.

Not a big deal for QR as in DOH, ALL flights in and out are bussed. There are NO airbridges at the current airport in DOH. The plan is for QR to have a bus kitted out in 'Business Config' with luxury seating etc etc (as they have in DOH) for the J Class customers.

:cool:

[SWBKCB]

Climate in EDI is a bit different to DOH. Could be a bracing walk to the 'Business Config' bus. :eek:

[edi_local]

No different to them going off jetty at the likes of CPH, BER, GVA, MOW, OSL, ARN or various other European cities QR serve.

[Donkey497]

Can't speak for the others as I haven't been through them regularly, but at OSL, CPH & ARN, QR are served by an airbridge. One of the few "perks" of not being a Schengen service, I guess........

[Joe Curry]

Mr Curry may have been overcome with the excitement of it all. Would never have happened under a BAA monopoly mind, he was right about that.

I was not overcome with it all. In fact I was not in the least bit surprised. BAA's departure from EDI opened the floodgates for the traffic that should have been encouraged in the first place. In fact they (BAA) were wet behind the ears to retain GLA. If they lose EK and the High Street leisure market,
GLA will be worth more in terms of real estate and commercial development.
In fact the Scottish Government's purchase of PIK could hasten the prospect.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Got the message everyone?

We will not tolerate what has been going on. Stay on topic or the thread goes.

In the meantime this thread is closed.

Feel free to start another but STAY on topic with NO baiting or snide. Read the rules.

The new thread should be called EDINBURGH 2

PPP