Enstrom Corner

[happyjack]

Enstrom F 28 C Helicopter on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Enstrom-F-28-C-Helicopter_W0QQitemZ320349007933QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ2009031 2?IMSfp=TL090312128003r6071)

[krypton_john]

On the Enstroms, where are the pitch links from the swash plate to the rotor head? It looks like a simple shaft with no links?

[chopjock]

mine's still for sale...:)

BH2cZT_2Ols&feature=related

[EN48]

On the Enstroms, where are the pitch links from the swash plate to the rotor head? It looks like a simple shaft with no links?


Inside the hollow mast ("shaft"):8 Like all other design choices, this involves certain tradeoffs. Being inside the mast, they are less vulnerable to wires, birds, etc; OTOH, more difficult to inspect. AFAIK, this design has been mostly trouble free, with most problems coming from undetected corrosion resulting from storing the helicopter outdoors.

[Gaseous]

There have been a few Enstrom wire strikes which would probably have brought down other aircraft. Great design to keep the control rods out of harms way as long as the corrosion issue is managed.

The corrosion failure was to a rod which had allegedly been lying round a breakers yard for years. The issue has been dealt with by an AD (or SDB?) requiring internal inspection of the rods. A bit of a pain as the rivets and end fittings have to be removed. All the rods I have seen - 12, I think, have been fine. The swash plate lives under the gearbox and is also prone to corrosion as water goes down the mast and ends up on the swash plate resulting in expensive repairs. The head bearings are prone to corrosion too and it runs to about £10k for a head/swashplate overhaul. This is why one often sees Enstroms parked up with a bucket over the head. I have found liberal doses of ACF50 help keep the problem at bay.

[EN48]

I have found liberal doses of ACF50 help keep the problem at bay.

Hangar is even more effective!;)

[DennisK]

Nice to see Enstrom 280C, G-BEYA still flying and autorotating especially well, even if the skipper squeezed the very last ounce of rotor energy from a nice vertical touch down.

'Twas the self same machine I displayed at Noel Edmonds', Mr Blobby air show at Cranfield, (I'm guessing circa 1998 or so) Once owned by the potato man up in Norfolk ... who owns her now?

DennisK

[chopjock]

Hi Dennis, She has belonged to Hovercam since 1995 :) Just running in the engine again. If you are down Devon way in August perhaps you could acompany me on a check ride?

[Kirt Hood]

http://i.ebayimg.com/11/!BP4-z+!CGk~$(KGrHgoH-C8EjlLl3wEGBJ1+yCOb(!~~_1.JPG

Anybody seen one of these before, I think there would be a little C of G problem. Maybe the pilot had really long legs.

[Gaseous]

Kirt, That looks like a photoshop mock up of a 280L hawk. There was only one I think and Enstrom still have it in storage. It flew but was never certified. Picture of the real one here.

flight international | usa | kania | 1979 | 0257 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1979/1979%20-%200257.html)

Edit. I just remembered, Dennis K stretched a 280. It could be that. That doesnt look like Enstrom landing gear though.

Any thoughts Dennis?

[md 600 driver]

it was in one of the old sheds at enstroms factory along with the turbine 280

[Tickle]

I was wondering if someone can please explain how the three-bladed Enstrom rotorhead works? Do the cables go up a non-rotating shaft inside the outer rotating shaft to work pitch control rods up in the head?

Is this the same system that the Brantly B-2 employs?

Thanks!

[Chopper Doc]

I've not worked on Brantlys so I do not know how they compare. In the Enstrom the control rods are attached to the swashplate below the gearbox. They terminate at the walking beams at the top of the mast. The mast and the control rods rotate together.

[chopjock]

A little entertainment for those of you who like to watch the Enstrom fly. Did this today.:ok:

8BXYLV4M7WY&feature=channel

[ascj]

ive never seen an enstrom fly with the doors off. is this not an option?
cheers ascj

[chucksweet]

Sure, you can. I did it a lot when I was training on an F28 and a 280.
My 480 has air conditioning so I have not had the doors off of it, but I know of other 480s that fly without doors.

Chuck

[The Guardian]

After trying out a R22, R44, 300CBi and a 280FX (out of town) to decide on which I would like to train in and most likely purchase in the future I've decided on the 280FX. Does anyone know of anyone teaching in Enstrom's in the Los Angeles area, whether with a company or privately? Anyone with any leads please feel free to post or PM me.

Thanks

[Yellow & Blue Baron]

I think Enstrom is very good helicopter for private flyers with very good stability and handling.

If anyone knows which schools in Sweden make course on Enstrom please send me the private message.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/2/9/4/1026492.jpg (http://www.pprune.org/photo/Enstrom-280C-Shark/1026492/L/&sid=5c19a42c693e9c52364498b1b025fe06)

SE-HKA Enstrom 280C Shark departing Barkarby (Stockholm)

[rick1128]

Baron,

That is a nice looking aircraft. I believe the Enstrom is really the only piston helicopter that makes any sense for the private owner. But it doesn't mean that commercial operators shouldn't use it. I know of many operators that use the Enstrom for conducting helicopter rides. And there are at least two operators here in the USA that conduct spray operations with the Enstrom.

[Earl of Rochester]

ASCJ in post #265:

I've never seen an enstrom fly with the doors off!


http://www.flightzone.co.za/media/photos/fawb/enstrom.jpg






http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn264/sharkattack2347/CIMG0310edit.jpg

Enstrom with EFIS!

[HelipadR22]

Hello Everyone,

Can anyone give me an insight to owning an Enstrom F28 please? I like the look of the machine and the purchase prices seem reasonable (Circa £30k), so I feel I am missing an important point.

Any comparisons with the R22 would be great, not just on running costs but any other aspects would be good too.

There is an edge of fantasy here at the moment as I am still training, but would very much like to purchase my own machine afterwards to hour build.... What would be the chances of finding people to cost share? Is there already one I could join rather than buy my own?

Thanks,
HR22

[Agaricus bisporus]

Lots of people deride the F28. They are almost invariably those who have never flown it. (just as I deride the Robbo, having never flown it)
They are good, well made, well designed aircraft. They are very pleasant indeed to fly, and although the "A" model is not exactly overpowered especially 3 up it is adequate - just. Still, it's good practice. The 28C has lots more power due to the turbocharger - but you pay more. Autorotation is good, relatively high inertia c/f a robbo. Nice and forgiving. Instrumentation is basic in most "A"s, but what do you want an AH for in a VFR machine? And it looks like a helicopter, not an airfix kit. And if you want to see what they are really capable of doing, watch a video of a Dennis Kenyon display. You won't believe your eyes!
Robinson. Pah!

Maintenance.
Engineers hate them. They were designed to fly, not to be maintained easily or cheaply. I remember rotor tracking was a pain and was needed frequently, but a smooth-flying Enstrom is a thing of joy. A battery change involved a ridiculous amount of dismantling of structure to achieve. You'll need to find a tame Enstrom specialist engineer to look after it.

There are plenty of cheap dogs around though, so seek an Enstrom expert's advice and buy one that is known to him as a good one.

You'll love it!

[rotorboater]

The 28a is quite underpowered so you need to be quick with your wrist as it's got no corralation at all, you need a good engineer as well & it's not economical on fuel but it's a reasonably good machine but not as good as the later turbo models, the 280c is much better looking though.

[DennisK]

Just a small point re the non-turbo Enstrom 28 & 280 models ... I've been hearing for almost forty years they are underpowered. Not quite correct I'm afraid as the Lycoming 360 cubic inches 'A' series engine produces 205 BHP. (Compare the equivalent Hughes 300 360 cubic inch 'D' Lycoming at 190 BHP!)

The problem is the A model is overweight! Typically around 1650 lbs WPS being 400 to 500 lbs more than a SH 300. Even so she is a nice tight ship, well harmonised controls ... but the three big warts are the heavy collective, the poor throttle/lever co-relation and blade delamination on the early blades. Autos not far off a 206, never been a fatal in the UK in 40 years, big 5feet wide cabin, separate 60 lb luggage locker, can produce extreme manoeuvres safely. (a 360 degree low level loop is a standard manoeuvre in my display sequence - but don't try at home without guidance) cruise at around 100 mph, top speed 112mph, range can be 250 to 280 sm. In fact I often used to wonder why anyone bought anything else! AND - you can still get one for £30k or thereabouts. Similar year 300 will bring double that.

Be happy to expound on the above for a serious purchaser but I'm no longer into sales.

Safe flying to all types out there. Dennis Kenyon.

[rick1128]

I owned a 28C and I didn't think it was that expensive to maintain. Yes the early blades have a delamination issue. In fact blades will delaminate if you don't take care of them. Keep them clean and waxed goes a long way.

There is only 9 life limited parts and several of them have such high time limits that it makes them for all practical purposes 'on condition'. Also the only regularly required inspections are the 100 hr/annual. No 1200 or 2200 hour inspections.

As for fuel burn, my average fuel burn ran between 8 to 10 gallons per hour.

[Earl of Rochester]

Nice Enstrom vid:

wbAQUiGW3u0

[HelipadR22]

Thank you everyone for responding, lots of information and help has come my way :ok:

Hello to you all too :)

[jonwilson]

HelipadR22,

not sure where about's in Wales you are but it would be a good idea to have a chat with a few owners/operators.
TK up in Chester fixes them as do Vanguard Heli's at Henstridge (Dorset and Somerset border). Vanguard also operate one so they may be a good port of call.

There are many people who are quick to slate the Enstrom but only take notes from those people who have flown and/or operated one.

Every helicopter can be slagged off about something but it's a question of personal choice. That can be made up from a number of factors whether it be price, looks, safety record etc etc.

If you have not flown one then go and have a go before going any further.

Good luck.

[HelipadR22]

Hi JW,

Thanks for the input. I certainly plan on taking a flight in one before I do anything else. It nice to make some contacts and get some names so I can get an all round view.

Looking forward to getting my hands on the controls :)

Nice vids guys.

[DennisK]

Hi Earl,

Yes, I also take the view that the 280FX version is the prettiest airframe Menominee has produced, and the swept back T/R end plates solved the occasional 'fishtailing' of the ealier models. Many in the industry still 'slag off' the type, but as been observed here, if the Enstrom is well maintained by a type knowledgable and experienced LAE, it makes a great personal helicopter. Good looking, good handling, quiet with reasonable economy for a 100 mph, three seater.

When I introduced the type to the European market in 1972 for my boss Roy Spooner, we experienced plenty of hostility from some quarters, that being a prime reason for my commencing a programme of flying displays around the country which the type does particularly well. My mid 1970s Farnborough display sequences certainly stopped a lot of the knocking.

Loved Earl of R's movie of the FX flying around the Twin-County Airport at Menominee, but you should see the place in mid winter. While on a sales meeting with the former owner, F Lee Bailey, I once saw minus 40 degrees on the OAT ... now that was cold and the Enstrom blades were cutting through the cold air like a hot knife through butter.

There were some great characters there in those days, Herb Moseley in engineering, that super saxophonist Paul Schultz in design, and of course Dave Brandt in engineering support. Not to forget pilot Paul Harrington and the test pilots Mike Meger and Mott Stanchfield who got me started on the display flying.

A small story some might like. Around 1985, F Lee Bailey stayed at my home while visiting Farnborough. I introduced my four-year old son Dennis to the great man. F Lee was being chatty and said to him ... "I'm told you can fly an Enstrom." My son adopted a flying pose as he shook and rapidly rotated his cyclic hand . "Oh yes ... Dad often gives lets me touch the controls!" he replied.

Thanks goodness they didn't all fly like that!

Happy flying to all Enstrom owners. Dennis Kenyon.

[Kiltie]

There seem to be 15 or 16 lifed items on F28s. Has anyone with ownership experience done a spreadsheet of what each of these parts realistically cost to replace and the labour hours involved? It would make costs planning easier for folk ready to take their first step in to rotary ownership. :)

I see 280C Sharks tend to be advertised at double the value of F28As. If turbocharging only has benefits in hotter or higher locations, is the performance here in the UK notably better?

[rick1128]

kiltie,

I have a excel spreadsheet I use for my 28C. PM me with your address and I will forward you a copy. Keep in mind that the F and FX models have a few more life limited parts than the earlier models. However even those limits are quite high. There is a service letter from Enstrom on time limits, I believe it is 116R?. While I have heard some operators say that the 28A does well at sea level, the C models do so much better. The Enstrom is a heavy airframe compared with its rivals. With not much more power.

If you check Sharky's Helicopters's website he normally has an excel page with Enstrom parts and their cost. Of course the cost where you are located may vary. As for time, I can give you an answer on that as I really didn't have too many problems with mine.

[md 600 driver]

Kilti
some sharks dont have turbos

yes the 280c or F28c will have a higher price as the turbo does make quite a difference in the uk

with my F28a sometimes i could not get it in the garden when the wind was wrong ,my F28c did get in most of the time ,My F280fx always got out and in whatever the weather

also check if the tail rotor is fitted on the correct side as early F28a models had it fitted so it used to blow the air the wrong way they started to put it on the other side of the tail boom and you need less tail pedal and so you got more engine power to the main blades

although when you get a few hundred hours on type you will learn how to eek the extra power out of the ship like dennis does

send pm if you want to talk somtime

[HelipadR22]

Spotted this video so thought I would share. Enstrom landing with stuck pedals.

more of what i deal with during my 8 to 5 Video by chip - Myspace Video (http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&playlistId=30084813&playlistType=1&playlistIndex=1&videoId=29290010)

[Earl of Rochester]

~ Helipad

That link didn't work for me.

I think this might be the same event on YT:

cpBgNcQv0IY

Earl

[HelipadR22]

Yeah, thats the one, cheers Earl.

[Savoia]

.
An oldie but a goodie. :ok:

The flight report from 1982 when Johnny Johnson flew the Enstrom Shark (G-PALS) with Dennisimo:

Page 1 (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1982/1982%20-%200384.html), 2 (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1982/1982%20-%200385.html), 3 (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1982/1982%20-%200386.html) and 4 (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1982/1982%20-%200391.html).

Extremely well written, as indeed such reports tended to be back then.

Enjoy

Sav

[newheli]

Getting close to purchasing a F28a model. Engine has been chromed and has ~ 700 hours, new tail rotor and blades, gearbox, swashplate and lamiflex bearings. The main rotors have some delaminations on the trailing edeges in a couple of spots not exceeding ~ 2". This thing has been parked since 2009 with periodic runups in a dry climate. This is a ex-trainer in good shape(suposivley). I need some advice on fair market value, Estimated cost to get up and running (WAG it), and ongoing maintenance issues. What should I be looking for? I am New to Rotorcraft and don't want to get into a money pit. I will be useing this in Alaska to access a mine at 800' ASL, temps around 50f and constant rain and wind in the 20mph range. I would also like to know about cargo hook instalation and what kind of external load I can expect to get. Any and all comments welcome

[FSXPilot]

Ok there is a company that can repair the blades in lower 48th. As it stands with delamination on the trailing edge the aircraft is not airworthy.
Maximum weight is 2150 lbs. You might want to do some calculations about weight before you start thinking about external loads. I can't see you having enough useful load to make it worth while.
The F28A does not have a lot of excess power and the throttle is not correlated.
Good luck.

[Tailboom]

In your guys opinion, who would be best to track and balance a 480 based in South Wales

[claudia]

Tailboom - Tom Kirk at Harwarden is your man. -TKhelicopters

[claudia]

Newheli- be very careful,. Enstrom main rotor blade delamination nearly always leads to the blades being scrapped. Good used blades are rare and new about 40k dollars per set.

[md 600 driver]

Tailboom

In travel terms probably rotorspan droitwich or Tom Kirk,steve Payne , simon Gibson ( in no special order )

Not wishing to teach you to suck eggs are you sure it needs track balance or you have a lamiflex problem or you may be expecting to much from your Heli
Have you had your enstrom long which model is it ?

Steve

[Tailboom]

Hi Steve been flying it 2 years, you could be right maybe expecting too much, just like to get it checked out, a few people who have been in it mentioned its a little lumpy, other than that a fab machine !

[CO280fx]

Enstrom's Turbine 480B - Better than an R66? (http://saflyermag.co.za/index.php/about/features/flight-test/203-enstroms-turbine-480b-better-than-an-r66-.html)

Flying Mag on the Enstrom 480B (http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/helicopters/enstrom-480b-0)

[Agaricus bisporus]

Can anyone here update me on JJ, if he is still with us he must be getting on now. He was probably the best instructor I erver flew with, and full of the most wonderful salty dits. He did my conversions on the Enstrom (28A/C) and Hughes 500.

[MileHi480B]

Thanks for posting. The 480B is tough to beat when all factors are considered.

[FLY 7]

The Enstrom 480'B' is a very good helicopter.

In the context of the R66, EC120, MD500, B206, etc, everyone will have their favourites, but the EN480'B' shouldn't be under-estimated, it has a lot of merits.

The basic design has a long lineage, but the 480 has the advantage (like the S269/300) of being originally developed as a military trainer - the TH-28 - and although it wasn't adopted by the US, it is in service around the world as a military turbine trainer.

It has a very strong and sophisticated, fully articulated rotor head, 'proper' cyclic controls, a substantial hydraulic undercarriage, an effective tail rotor, substantial build quality and a spacious, versatile cabin, with excellent visibility - all of which have, no doubt, contributed to the excellent safety record.

It's not the fastest - similar to a B206 - but it is very comfortable and amazingly tolerant in windy conditions. In strong winds it is surprisingly easy to fly and very stable.

It really isn't a 5-seater though - yes, it can be configured to seat five, but it's best as a 3-seater or 2+2. The front seats are very good (and adjustable) and the middle/rear seat is popular with passengers.

Reliability is good, maintenance is fairly straight forward, Factory support is generally excellent. Owners seem to love them, and the only issue seems to be the TT straps that need replacing every two years - hopefully a third party will resolve this with a cheaper, longer-lifed option.

There was a rumour that Enstrom are developing a bigger, 5-place, model with the RR500, elastomeric dampers and a few other tweeks.

[rick1128]

Newheli,

For what you want to do, I would stay away from a straight or an A model. The A stands for anemic. I flew one at sea level and it still was short of power. While the C models have the same horsepower as the A's, with the turbo you are getting all of the horsepower. If the blades are starting to delaminate, they are junk and used blades are next to impossible to find. So plan on buying new.
The rotor system is quite heavy and takes a lot of power to add a few RPM, so if you are operating in an area where there are gusty winds, and it sounds like you will be, you will have problems.

As for external loads, I wouldn't consider any model older than a F model.

[flydeep]

One important thing to look for is the mast. Check to make sure it has the heavy mast. It was a change that was made around 1986. I had the first heavy mast and it was warped in carbon fiber to make it stiffer. Big difference, Enstrom kept putting on more HP and kept the original mast from the first A models. They use to wiggle in the air and with the control tubes so close together running up through the center any movement makes big changes out at the pitch change links. The stronger stiffer mast eliminated the mast flexing and made it feel as solid as a 500. Also the stiffer mast made the lamiflex bearings last much longer. The Enstrom is a great aicraft. It was the first one I owned. Good strong belt system and nice heavy blades for ato's. When doing Auto's make sure you get it level before touch down. The tail likes to hang low. djb

[chopjock]

Has anyone had an issue with dying magnetos on the Enstrom? I've had to replace the capacitors in mine about 8 times in four years. On one occasion I had a mag die in flight whilst 40 miles out to sea. :eek: No joke!

[FSXPilot]

That is strange. First question would be where are you getting your magnetos overhauled. When your magneto is having it's four year O/H make sure that your capacitors are sent with the magneto so they can be tested at the same time. I'm saying four years because I doubt that you fly more than 500 hours in a four year period.

[Rocket2]

Claudia & FSX Pilot et all - just noticed your ref to trailing edge delamination on the MRB's - PM me, I know a (UK) company that can now help on this.

[blakmax]

I certainly hope that the repair is not based on injection of fresh adhesive into the disbond. Adhesive bonds depend on formation of chemical bonds at the interface between the adhesive and the substrate. If a material has disbonded, then the surface is not chemically active and hence forcing new adhesive in will only fill the gap, not re-bond the component. Injection repairs are totally ineffective and I defy anyone to produce test data to show any restoration of strength.

Regards

Blakmax

[Rocket2]

Rest easy Blakmax, no it's not an injection repair & it's also approved by the OEM in case your worried. PM me if you wish.
R2

[blakmax]

Rocket2,
PM sent

Blakmax

[joecub]

Hi there, new guy here. Finished my Commercial Heli add on recently in a R22. I bought a 280C a couple of weeks ago, only Enstrom i've ever flown (love it)... got a few questions. First question is on lift offs, my 280C has a correlater in it... I was shown by the previous owner to bring the engine rpms up to about 2200 then let the correlater do the rest on pick up, the problem is that the rpms are inconsistent, sometimes I over rev, sometimes I don't... So I tried bringing the rpms into the green at flat pitch and rolling off the throttle as I raise collective... either way I seem to feel like a bumbling fool as I lift off and the ship bobs around as I search for the green arc... How do you boys do it? Second question is about the trim... the fore and aft seems to feel normal, but the lateral seems to do nothing, nothing...then to much. I mean it works, its just different. Normal? Another issue is the pilots door seems to wanna pop open above 105 indicated... ideas? Anyone have an excel spreadsheet for tracking component times? Thanks Joe

[jonwilson]

Joe,

with regard to working with the RPM unfortunately you will have to master the art of flying un correlated. Yes I know you do have some correlation but it's not the best and almost not worth having. You have been spoilt in using the R22 governer. Back to basics for you with the Enstrom.

The trim issue is normal in the older 280's. You will master that as well but it can be trimmed out very nicely if you have a real soft touch.

Good luck with the old girl they are a very good machine and very safe.

Have a good 2012 of flying.

Where are you located?

[500e]

Are the trim actuators the same as the Hughes 500 ?, not having had a close look at an Enstrom.
The variation in trim time on some 500s can be an eye opener is it the same on Enstroms

[rotorboater]

The door on mine always popped open about that speed, must be to warn you not to go too fast;)

[Savoia]

The FAA has released a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) alerting owners and operators of Enstrom Helicopter Corporation-manufactured (Enstrom) 280 FX helicopters of a false fuel quantity indication with subsequent risk exposure to fuel exhaustion during flight. At this time, this airworthiness concern is not an unsafe condition that would warrant airworthiness directive (AD) action under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 39.

Background
There has been a report of a helicopter accident that occurred after fuel exhaustion. Investigation revealed a false “Full” fuel quantity indication on the fuel indicator as contributory. This false reading was due to the fuel level sending unit wires being disconnected. A false fuel quantity indication of “Full” results when the fuel level sending unit wires are disconnected at the “wristlock” located between the tops of the left and right fuel tanks, with the master switch in the “On” position.

Recommendations
The FAA recommends that prior to each flight the visual check specified in the flight manual be performed to verify fuel quantity in the fuel tank. When the fuel tank is “Full” the fuel quantity indicator in the cockpit should read “Full.” If the fuel quantity in the tank is less than “Full” and the fuel quantity indicator reads “Full” then the fuel indicating system should be serviced per the maintenance manual to correct any noncompliance. Additionally, the FAA recommends a visual check of the “wristlock” during each Periodic Inspection to ensure the plastic covers over the “wristlock” connections are tie-wrapped in accordance with the maintenance manual.

References
Enstrom Maintenance Manual, page MM-3-7, Section 3-2 Periodic Inspection, Nature of Inspection B.2(d); pages MM-13-72, 73 and 74, Section 13-10 Fuel System, B(1)(c) and B(2)(c); and Enstrom Rotorcraft Flight Manual RFM 28-AC-020, pages 4.3 and 4.4, paragraphs 12 and 23.

For Further Information Contact
Ed Cuevas, Aviation Safety Engineer, FAA Safety Management Group, ASW-112, 2601 Meacham Blvd., Fort Worth, Texas, 76137; phone: 817-222-5355; e-mail: [email protected]

[FSXPilot]

Frankly anyone who flies a piston Enstrom and trusts the fuel gauge is very stupid.

[ascj]

make that piston anything

[outofwhack]

Make that anything ...........

[rick1128]

Considering that Enstrom makes a factory calibrated dip stick for their helicopters, it is really stupid. They are the only manufacturer that I know of that does that.

[ascj]

should be more of it!

[Savoia]

In Papua New Guinea the maintenance department for the outfit I flew with had devised fuel tank dipsticks for all their aircraft.

They served as a useful verification of actual contents.

[baby spanner]

are all enstrom operators aware of FAA AD 2011-26-10 (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgAD.nsf/0/65CE604C02F7C9A98625797D004F2F20?OpenDocument) which states all enstrom f and fxs much have the cyclic trim modified within 5hrs TIS
(http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgAD.nsf/0/65CE604C02F7C9A98625797D004F2F20?OpenDocument)

[Jed A1]

A question that's always bugged me - why do some older UK machines have the designation "-UK" ? Similarly German machines "-D".

[FSXPilot]

This goes back to the 70's when the CAA had some requirements that were different to the US and once the aircraft was modified to comply it had the -UK added to it's model type.

[DennisK]

Ref the current crop of Enstrom queries ... if it helps anyone, it was circa 1974/1975 that I undertook a comprehensive series of test flights to obtain the original CAA/UK public transport certification for the first non-turbo 280 Shark series (G-BDIB) to be imported by my company as the UK/European distributor covering 27 countries. This was followed by the Rayjay turbo 280C 'Shark' (G-BENO) and F28C- 'dash two' in 1976. Then of course the later 225 bhp FX models. So with around six thousand type hours, I'll be happy to help ppruners in any areas where I can.

Yes, as has been said, the early rpm cam correlation is of some help, but it is mostly back to basic manual for general handling. On sales demonstratioin flights, I used the factory PFM quoted method for initial lift-off, ie set circa 2,200 to 2,400 ERPM, (depending of course on lift-off weight, density and W/V) then a straightforward collective lift usually places the rpm in the middle of the green arc (2,875) at a 4 feet skid height hover. This method will invariably require some additional pilot input tho'. Sadly the CAA would not approve the method and the PFM has an additional page requiring ERPM to be set at 2900 which then requires some reverse throttle handling to avoid an overspeed.

And yes too ... the trim system does need to be learned but in training, I used a series of 'trim blips' to achieve the 'hands & feet off' configuration. In that mode, I used to demonstrate turns using weight shift only!!

Enjoy your Enstrom, even the normally aspirated 'C' series Lycoming. The type is especially good looking, is quiet with a cruise speed at 80% power of a whisker over 100 mph, giving 85lbs of fuel burn per hour ... a three hour 'loiter' endurance plus 7 cu ft of dedicated luggage locker space (60lbs weight for the C and 100lbs for the FX) ... has excellent autorotation handling with a HV curve at max auw of 300 feet and 30 mph for the A model. The Enstrom also has a proud record of never having had a fatality in the UK in over forty years of operations ... docile handling with a near aerobatic performance capablity which has twice won the world 'freestyle' championships. In fact when a 1970/1980s Enstrom Shark can be bought for anywhere between £50k and 360k you might ask yourself why anybody buys anything else!

Having said that, MD's latest 500 is still my all time favourite. Dennis K.

[Jed A1]

FSXP thanks for the response.

I was wondering what the specific mods were which made the machine a "-UK".

I notice that when a machine leaves the UK the "-UK" designation gets dropped regardless of whether any mods are reversed. Therefore I ask is an ex "-UK" machine superior to a straight US machine??

[FSXPilot]

Superior? Only if you're a twonk from the CAA with a love of stupid extra rules. The mods were minor and related to things like the mixture cable being different and also having a red light for the low voltage instead of an amber light and this remains the case for G reg aircraft to this day.

[joecub]

Over the weekend I landed my Enstrom 280C at 11,100ft and a density altitude of 13,500! My highest landings previous were all below 7000 ft. I took this photo with my cell phone, my father is in the Super Cub. Cool shot I thought.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7117/7876991806_52354e8df9_c.jpg

[rotorboater]

I bet you had to work that throttle & pump the lever hard at that altitude, good old machine the Enstrom, nice pic as well:D

[joecub]

securedownload | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/78593789@N02/7903791690/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8299/7903791690_29c4aac50c_c.jpg

[Anthony Supplebottom]

How To Start an Enstrom Turbine Helicopter - YouTube

[FLY 7]

Anyone going from piston to turbine will love the simplicity of the start up procedure and the wonderful sound track.

The panel in the video looks like a 480, the later 480B has a better ergonomic layout, IMO.

Many owners also put markings on the throttle twist grip to designate 'closed', 'idle' and 'fully open'. Does help, and avoids expensive mistakes.

Fantastic entry level turbine.

[stephem w]

hi there i am serious about buying my first helicopter i have seen a enstron f28 is in my price range and i really do require lots of information and advice like how much it is for insurance for a novice pilot to learn to train in how much for maintanance and how often you got to service them is there a lifetime hours like the robinson have i am from doncaster and willing to travel to see anyone thanks stephen

[rick1128]

Since you are located in the UK the requirements may be a little different. Go to the US FAA website (FAA: Home (http://www.faa.gov)) and open the Type certificate data sheets (TCDS) for the Enstrom. There are very few life limit items on this helicopter. Some have hour requirements so high, they might as well be on condition. Like main rotor blades are 95,000 hours. Yes that is the actual number. The only mandatory normal inspection is the 100 hour/annual inspection.

[krypton_john]

Stephen, search this forum for Dennis Kenyon and PM him. He is a master of Enstroms and if you are very lucky you might even be able to get him to teach you how to fly one.

[Dennis Kenyon]

Hallo Stephen ... it was good of JK to recommend me to you so if you do have any specific questions on the non-turbo 'A' models, just e-mail me on [email protected] or use our pprune service. I was the original importer of the Enstrom range for Europe and can probably answer 95% of your questions. Best wishes. Dennis K

[timprice]

Hi Stephen

If you would like to learn to fly an Enstrom 480 we do PPL (H) training at Shoreham on the south coast.

Just look for shoreham helicopters Ltd.

Regards

Tim:ok:

[helispeediii]

steve you could not do better than train with dk or tp down at shoreham , or were ever you chose to train, no one has more experience than dk on enstroms, i did my time with zz another legend,:) also mike mcdougal /[ now with the feds] + j johnson who used to smoke marlboro throughout the lessons good luck the enstom is a lovelly docile helicopter, very easy to fly. helispeediii

[Helinut]

Stephen,

If you do not have experience of helicopters and owning them, then I strongly recommend that you look very carefully at the REAL costs of ownership. It can be a wonderful thing to own your own and fly it for pleasure;it can also be a financial nightmare.

You need to get close to someone who has owned (preferably a similar type to the one you want to buy) and who is prepared to open their books. You need to generate (or borrow) spreadsheets of costs. They split into fixed (i.e. annual) and flying (per hour flown) costs. You will need to estimate the number of hours you will fly per year, which may not be easy. You also need to get an appreciation of the possible scale of non-scheduled maintenance. If you are unlucky, these can dwarf the other costs.

This would be my advice for any type of helicopter. Enstroms are often successfully operated by private owners.

[Clitheroe Kid]

I have owned a piston F28F and also an Enstrom 480, i now have a Hughes 500. Happy to discuss costs.

[Rescue One]

Hi Stephen,

I have also owned a F28 and 480 and live very close to Doncaster. I have flown with Dennis Kenyon and Tim Price, I can be cornered these days at Gamston or Sandtoft if I can help with your decision making. Variouse types on my licence which I have owned, so can comment on pros and cons.
My home helipad situated SW corner of Doncaster/Finningley Robin Hood airspace or what ever its called this week.

[EN48]

Recently had an opportunity to visit the Enstrom factory and fly the prototype 480B with Garmin G1000H avionics package (as announced at HAI in March). IMHO, transforms the helicopter! They have done a beautiful job of integrating this with the airframe. This project was motivated in part by non-U.S. military/para military organizations who initially train pilots in fixed wing aircraft (C172) with the G1000 system, and want to transition some of these pilots to helicopters. I am guessing that other customers will have a strong interest in this as well. The large forward cabin, ease of flying and superb safety record make this helo a natural for the owner/pilot. Published pricing makes this a great value for a light turbine helo with ultra modern avionics. Enstrom is now one of three helo manufacturers with announced G1000H implementations (including Bell and Augsta).

Enstrom is doing very well. Got a briefing on their expansion plans which include a near doubling of current floor space (an 80,000 sq ft addition) which will break ground on Friday. My sense is that there is more good news to come from Enstrom. :ok:

[FLY 7]

The new ownership and expansion programme are all great news for Enstrom.

They build excellent, safe helicopters, so it's good to see they are moving forward. I understand there is a two year waiting list for a new 480B.

Be interesting to see what future projects they have planned. Few years ago I heard rumours of a stretched cabin 480 with RR500 and elastomeric dampers.

[KK Singh]

This helicopter on which I have flown about 300 hours in India is good machine. When I was converted in US, I felt it had bags of power but in India that is less than 30 degree latitude where temperature was generally more than 20 degree Centigrade and humidity high with lots of dust, has limitations of power, specially when it was air condition.
In UK, things will be better than what I enumerated above.
Keep the helicopter well withing dead man's curve, it will behave. Further a word of caution, keep an eye on its belt's tension and the trimmer!!
Happy landings!!

[KK Singh]

Congratulations! I have landed this helicopter at 5500 feet only but OAT was 30 degree Centigrate with 2 passangers and my helicopter was air conditioned!!
Well, the helipad was 50 mts in length and I had head wind of approx 10 kts.

[lvflyer]

First I apologize for the long windedness, but I value the opinion of the members of this forum.I'm having a difficult time determining the value calculation of an Enstrom 280C Shark and whether I should commit to an investment in it.I defer to the experienced on this forum. I read the entire Enstrom Corner and learned a lot about the Enstrom and determined if I were to invest in a helicopter it would be an Enstrom. The question is how much I should invest. I am a fixed wing multi-engine commercial instrument pilot with private privileges in single engine land and rotorcraft. I have over 1000 PIC with 150 in R22 and some in C300 and a couple hours in a Safari.I do not see the utility value in the R22 and don't like the idea of retiring a perfectly good airframe before its time. I've considered buying into a Safari due to the operating cost being around the same of my 1968 Mooney M20-F, but I don't think I can do the commercial things to help justify ownership.If the value was right and I was able to find a partner for my Mooney it would be a no brainer and would buy this 280C. I can't believe how dead the market is. I have offered my Mooney over 10 years for $35k half ownership and even advertised I would finance and take payments. If that was available to me at the time I got my ticket I would have jumped on it. I am in my mid 50s and on a fixed income less than $2000 per month. My living arrangement costs next to nothing so more than half is available for aviation. There are no helicopters to rent around here at this time and when there were it cost $280 wet for a C300. I haven't had the opportunity to fly for over 3 years. I can afford the costs without income producing activity with the helicopter, but I plan on generating some income in the way of rides, community services, and skydiving. Although I live in a small farming community in the center of the country I think I can stay busy. You can only justify so many $400 hamburgers. My Mooney sits in the hangar because I no longer need cross country transportation. My thought is that if the selling price is depressed due to the market pressures I think their will be upward pressure in the future when the economy changes, which is almost guaranteed when this administration is removed. I was arranging a 50% partnership in this 77 Shark and at the last minute the seller pulled out and said he had to sell outright offering it in full at $90k. My question to you all is how do I figure a base value if all of the life limited parts are expired, which they aren't, but I can extrapolate from there. I can provide a picture of the time left on the components. The Lamiflex bearings are due in a month. This Shark has been meticulously maintained and looks great. Will it retain its value except for life limited parts?Any comments are appreciated.

[rotorboater]

Seems a bit expensive for a 77 - probably non turbo as well. I sold my 82 turbo 280C a couple of years ago for under $60k and that had a zero time engine & new blades, I may well have got more if I waited but some of the machines that were for sale then are still on the market and not being used, piston helicopters like being used and unless they have been inhibited properly they can become problems.

I think there are an awful lot of underused machines out there for sale that the owners are looking for silly money for.

[lvflyer]

It is a Turbo. What would the value be if everything that was life limited was at zero time?

Total Time 6450
Annual 06/13

These are times left on components

Lamiflexes due in September
Over Clutch 2031
T/R Blade 782
T/R Blade 1581
T/R Grip 3882
T/R Grip 4581
FWD Flex Pack 1052
AFT Flx Pack 1052
Tach Drive Belts 523 days
Left Idler bearing 232
Rt Idler bearing 232
Main XMSN ASSY 384
T/R GBX 604
Engine 723
Turbocharger 312

[lvflyer]

Does anyone have any suggestions on other forums or other resources, besides Trade a Plane and other classifieds, how to find the value of this Enstrom if all the times on the life limited parts were at 0? I can extropolate from there on the asking price I think. Is there another section of this forum where I should be asking this? I have discovered the average altitude of helicopter drops are 5k to 6k so it may be feasable to cover actual costs to fly around my area at drop events. What is the actual density altitude that a turbo charged 280C can hover out of ground effect? Will hovering at those altitudes allow enough time to autorotate with the high inertia blades?

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Will hovering at those altitudes allow enough time to autorotate with the high inertia blades?

Do you mean from 5-6k?

[Trying not to laugh].

[lvflyer]

Yes first I understand a turbo charged Enstrom can hover at altitude and isn't a hovering jump preferred by jumpers. Can an Enstrom gain forward momentum from 5k to 6k feet agl enough for a autorotation? I'm not talking about total and abrupt stop of the main rotors I'm referring to say a turbo charger failure or something less catastrophic. If it is an issue then I get the impression 30mph is acceptable by jumpers, but then again if something happens can an Enstrom gain 30mph to enter autorotation if required?

[Anthony Supplebottom]

I actually thought it was a jest.

Just to put things into perspective, a former colleague of mine ended-up driving Squirrels (or Astars as they call them over the pond) in Canada and I recall him telling me about the training he received for recovery from engine failure while long-lining/load-lifting.

The Squirrel's blade inertia is workable, not as comfortable as the Bells but its ok. He said that from around 100ft. (and in a practice situation over an airfield) they could easily recover by nosing forward, gaining slight momentum and then initiating the flare. What he described as more interesting was the practice scenarios from half the height, ie. 40-50ft. These too were recoverable but required lightning reaction, a slight nosing forward (to simulate moving away from the load and to gain a fraction of momentum) and then straight into a flare/collective cushioned landing.

Now if the Squirrel, which is a relatively heavy helicopter compared to the 280, possessing what I would describe as medium-inertia blades, can pull-off a recovery from the very centre of the dead man's curve then I assure you that a 280 will have no problem maintaining rrpm after an engine failure from five or six thousand feet!

Regarding parachute drops - you don't need to execute a free air hover at 5,000ft. to let the boys out. A slow steady forward speed is more than sufficient (below 20 or so kts your ASI will be unreliable in any case and you might better monitor your speed via GPS) but again, jumpers don't usually ask for a zero forward speed jump and even if they do all you need do is put the Enstrom into a gentle climb and from low speed you will kill off most if not all of your forward airspeed.

However - I have to say that I can think of better helis to use for this purpose but, if works for you!

Overall the 280C is a great helicopter for private flyers and, in general terms, depending on your specific environment, comes with my solid recommendation.

Regarding values, Enstrom themselves may be willing to offer you a guideline and there may be some information in the Helicopter Blue Book if you can get your hands on a copy.

[lvflyer]

Thanks, After posting I did some more forum reading and also discovered they relally don't want a hover drop so they can stabilize. I'm sure you can see I am new to this idea. I have an opportunity to buy a local 1977 Enstrom 280C Shark Turbo that I know was maintained meticulously and looks great. I just need a way to justify owning it privately. I'm 57 and this is in place of owning a house so it's taking all I have. I have zero access to rotorcraft around here so right now this is my only option if I ever want to fly rotorcraft again without travelling some distance.

[chopjock]

can an Enstrom gain 30mph to enter autorotation if required?

You don't need 30mph to enter autorotation, you can even do it backwards if you like.

[Anthony Supplebottom]

lvflyer - can I urge you strongly not to sacrifice home ownership in preference for a 1970's Enstrom or any other material object for that matter.

By the sound of it you must really love flying and that is commendable but, once this little adventure is fulfilled you may well find yourself in the unenviable position of owning a *depreciating asset in which you cannot even boil a kettle to make a cup of tea!

May I suggest you maintain a home for your future and put aside what you can for the occasional renting of a helicopter where you can put a couple of hours in every few months or so - if you don't have a valid licence then you can do this with an instructor on board.

Never get into helicopter ownership and operating unless you can comfortably afford to do so and certainly never jeopardise or exchange your home for something like a helicopter.

Hope you don't mind me expressing my views on this.

*Not just annual depreciation on value but the fact that the asset will depreciate exponentially if you miss out on scheduled maintenance requirements.

[Overdrive]

Well, someone had to say it...

[lvflyer]

I appreciate your concern and believe me I have considered this. At this time I have a roof over my head that has been left to me by my parents with minimal cost for living. I am single now, having been married for 18 years ending in 2001. I have no dependents. There are no helicopters around this area. There use to be years ago, but they are all gone. Worse case scenario is that I have to pay for a hangar at $1200 per year and then sell the Enstrom at a loss when I can't afford the annual. Just like my Mooney that sits in a hangar and doesn't fly much. I'm 57 and running out of time to enjoy my dream for awhile. The Enstrom will allow me the opportunity to do things that might pay for my flying, while the Mooney is only good for cross-country which places it in the air transport arena. The helicopter may put me in front of aviation people that may open some doors whereas the Mooney doesn't. Use to be that you could go to the airport on a weekend and hang around in the hangars, but now it's like a ghost town so providing the helicopter for rides at fly-ins will at least keep me in the aviation community. I have been saving to build a Safari or buy a built Safari or Hummingbird, but the opportunity to own an Enstrom for the same or less has presented itself. It is a big decision and I am still mulling it over.

[heli1]

Go for it.....you only live once and it's only money. Compared to some an Enstrom is still a good buy....still in production and spares available. I bought my own helicopter to fulfill my dream over 20 years ago...it costs me an arm and a leg to keep it airworthy as I don't use it commercially but I can fly when and where I want at a drop of the hat and enjoy every minute of flying I get.

[lvflyer]

Thanks one and all for your comments. I bit the bullet and am now owner of N624H. I would like to keep in touch as I begin my journey. I got the seller to take care of all the calendar timed items so I don't have to worry about any parts that need replaced, except for unexpected items of course, for 5 years and now tach time items for over 350 hours. I can at least get some flying in before anything major. Blue goes up.

[IFMU]

Congrats on your new Enstrom. Regarding autos from high altitude hover, my instructor had me do vertical autos from 1500 AGL in an F28A with a recovery to forward flight by 700' AGL. It was supposed to be by 1000' AGL but I was mesmerized by the sight picture of the ground gently rising up around me. By 700' it looked more like it was out to smite me but it was an easy push forward to a recovery. The A model couldn't hover up there. I really liked the machine.
Bryan

[lvflyer]

Thanks for all your comments. I went ahead and made the purchase with the understanding the seller would take care of all the calendar due components replaced so I don't have to worry about any of those for 5 years and tach time components for 380 hours. I should be able to log 500 hours before anything major on the time limited list, according to Roger Sharkey. I hope so. I flew it yesterday and with the seller's assistance tried to learn all the quirks and personalities. The Lamiflex bearings are surely worn because the instruments panel was difficult to read at times due to the shaking. It made it difficult to keep the needles in the green and not overboost. I discovered that I reverted to my R22 training and used the collective rather than throttle as primary RPM control and quickly lost RPM. I learned how to milk it to regain RPM, but this is going to be a moderate learning curve. So to all the experienced older model 280C Enstrom pilots, ie. no correlator, is there any practice routines to get used to the throttle control and turbo lag? I think the seller had the friction on the throttle a bit tight. I don't know if that was the reason for my hand getting tired or more of an apprehensive death grip. Do you keep it tight? I found myself chasing the RPMs to the point where I didn't even talk on the radio. The seller, even though he is not an instructor, did tell me that he was surprised how well I did even though I haven't flown rotorcraft for 4 years. I've got the gift, but I refer to my fellow pilots for all the secrets. I found myself not using enough pedal as well, but that is due to the fact I fly a Mooney, very little need. So chime in with all your training suggestions. I don't think going up with an experienced instructor will give me anymore than I already got from the seller. He has over 1000 hours in this helicopter. I think it is just a matter of getting use to it and that will require time. So what exercises worked best for you all?

[rick1128]

Loosen the throttle friction if you need to. The only thing I can say is try to lead with the throttle. In time it will become a habit.

As for the shaking. How often did the previous owner lube the machine? If he kept it well lubed, it shouldn't be a major issue. Many times the shaking is caused by the dampers. All you need is one damper tighter or looser than the others. Depending on how tight they are, they can get air bubbles in them and they have to be purged.

Since you haven't flown a helicopter in the last 4 years, I would strongly suggest that you get some dual in it, prior to going off by yourself. The machine does have a few quirks. And if you ue the Enstrom Program Insurance, you will have to do that anyway.

Good luck, I enjoyed mine very much.

[chopjock]

On my 280C I used to hold the blades by the tips and swing them forwards and backwards to loosen the dampers, then take it out for a good thrashing, wing overs and stall turns etc. Did that about once a month and the dampers were fine. loved it to bits.
Autos a treat at 20 kts. Never felt safer in any other heli.

[lvflyer]

Is anyone familiar with the benefits of the optional secondary muffler on these? Is that option available for 77 model and is it worth it?

[FSXPilot]

Secondary muffler? I'm not sure what you are talking about. Is that instead of the straight through exhaust pipe after the turbo charger?

[lvflyer]

As found in the Piston Pilot Training guide:
Enstroms are relatively quiet helicopters due to the installation of the turbocharger,
and the slow turning main and tail rotors. They can be equipped with an
optional secondary muffler that lowers the noise signature significantly.

Also how do you secure the main rotor if you have to leave it on the ramp for a couple days?

[lvflyer]

My 280C was finally delivered today. First time I was in the pilot's seat and noticed a large gap at the bottom of the door. I don't recall anyone on here complaining about poor fitting doors. Is this a common issue and if so has anyone been able to re-fit the doors so they seal around the edges. I know it is difficult to have these thin fiberglass panels retain their shape so I assume this is a known issue. I am interested in your replies.

[chucksweet]

yes, it is a common problem...sorry

[lvflyer]

So do we just use thicker weather strip?

[chucksweet]

Mine were so warped I had to buy new doors...sorry I am no help.

[rick1128]

In the 28's the door has no fiberglass at all, it is just plexiglass. The last time I looked at a 280 the doors appeared to be constructed the same way. Mine were a little loose, so I used Home Depot weather strip which worked just fine.

[joecub]

The right door on my 280c had a big gap at the bottom as well.... Fairly common I see... Be ready for it to pop open at about 105 mph indicated.... It'll scare ya the first few times!

[timprice]

The small gap at the bottom is to let the water out from the leak at the top in rain!:
Plus the doors pop open as you near VNE to help slow you down.
All these features come at no extra charge.
ps just don't put maps between seats and doors unless no longer required.:ok:

[heli1]

Doors? Why would you want to fly with doors on? Real Helicopter Pilots used to fly with open cockpits!

[Jed A1]

It's just like driving a Land Rover - make sure you have a knee length rain coat so you don't get out with soaking wet trousers!

P.S. I know nothing about driving trabants! I was referring to Solihull's best but seem to have been auto edited!

[lvflyer]

I just noticed: I think what caused the door warping was the addition of neumatic actuators, installed in 2008. Too much force continually being applied outward on the flexible material without a latch at that point. Not a good thing unless the entire bottom of the door would have been reinforced with rigid material. Whoever came up with that STC should have known better. I've got another question for those in the know. Is there a throttle friction knob on the 1977 280C? The knurled knob below the throttle doesn't budge.

[md 600 driver]

Yes it's a friction knob . In all my enstroms the door fitting were not very good even in the turbines

[lvflyer]

Do you think I should try to force the friction knob or just get used to where it is?

[Savoia]

P.S. I know nothing about driving trabants! I was referring to Solihull's best but seem to have been auto edited!

Jed A1: You've stumbled upon one of PPRuNe's 'quirks' as explained here:


Other word changes were a victim of Danny's quirky humour: an everlasting irrit is a dig at PPRuNe Towers' love of Land-Rovers which turns the name into Trabant. It has caused pages of posts in most forums debating why a Trabant was used........:p

Therefore, to write Land-Rover .. one must insert a hyphen between the Land and the Rover!

[md 600 driver]

Irv
suggest you get an a and p to fix it for you

[lvflyer]

I took a closer look at the knurled collar. It appears to be riveted from the inside of the collar to the chrome shaft. Does the shaft turn with the collar? To loosen the throttle is the collar turned to the left or in other words the top to the outside? Does anyone have a picture of a 1977 vintage collective on a 280C showing what the throttle friction collar is suppose to look like? This may have been altered some time. I just got around to reading all the logs on this ship, I know --dumb-- before buying, but I trusted the owner and mechanic. In 6,900 hours there has been lots of things replaced, upgraded, or added to her.

[rotorboater]

here you gohttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/rotorboater/Enstrom280cInterior_zpse736f489.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rotorboater/media/Enstrom280cInterior_zpse736f489.jpg.html)

[lvflyer]

Thank you. That's what mine looks like and I got a confirmation from Roger Sharkey that it is a friction adjustment. Question is which way does it turn to loosen. I assume it is in the direction of the top towards you when standing outside or same direction as throttle increase? Roger told me to put a strap wrench on it and free it up. I think the previous owner just left it where it was when he go it and got use to it. The current feeling on the throttle is when applying force to the throttle it all of a sudden breaks and turns a little bit more than you would want. No way could anyone get precise throttle position as it is. I think that is why I am constantly fighting too much or too little adjustment when raising or lowering collective. Hopefully I can loosen it up a bit and still be able to tighten it if I wish.

[Matari]

lvflyer,

Don't put a strap wrench on it. Get an A&P to take a look at the friction mechanism. It's probably a case of corrosion, and if that mechanism is frozen solid who knows what else in that collective is corroded as well. I would not trifle with it.

Sounds like your ship needs a good inspection, and some corrective and preventive maintenance.

[rotorboater]

There is no corraltor on the 280C so you have to work the throttle as you raise or lower the collective, try to lead with the throttle when pulling the lever up but watch the revs, you get used to it after a while.

[lvflyer]

So I have had my first flight in my Enstrom since taking delivery. 1977 280C. I have lots of questions, but first I want to share my near disaster first flight. The seller wanted to be benevolent and give me his left over fuel in his truck mounted tank. So an 85 degree afternoon with 20 gallons fuel and me and my instructor about 400 lbs. As I begin to lift off I get an overboost light so I settle back down and try again after leaning mixture a bit. I did this a couple times, but it seemed it was getting more and more difficult to stay out of overboost. By the time I taxied away from the hangar I noticed really high CHT and oil temperature was approaching redline. I set down to allow it to cool off a bit before continuing. First off I am not familiar with this or any Enstrom so I didn't know what was normal. I did think to myself surely there is more performance than an R22. After cooling off a bit I began to lift off and about 2' off the ground I lost a lot of power and got lots of vibration and backfiring. Fortunately I was able to settle without too much speed, thanks to high inertia. We checked the sumps once again and found lots of black sand like particles in the tank where the benevolent fuel was pumped. Needless to say I took a complete tear down and now it seems to be OK as far as I know. Much less manifold pressure needed, but I still don't know what I should expect. So now the questions:

The book says to bring engine RPM to 2900, but it seems a lot smoother and a better performer at top redline. I notice my rotor RPM is at the bottom of the green when I am at 2900 so what is your technique and how critical is the redline on the engine speed? It seems I enter overboost and lose rotor RPM rapidly if I stay at 2900 in a hover.

Regarding the tires for the ground handling. The tires on mine have cracked sidewalls and the brackets that attach the deployment mechanism is slightly tilted so the wheels angle outward. Is the tilt normal? How can tires with 475 lb capacity each carry 2000 lbs? They are Kenda tires 4.10/3.50-4 made in Taiwan. Are those the correct tires and has anyone found any better tires? Desser has those tires for $33 each so should I just replace these? As it is now it is very difficult to move it on the ground and the tires flatten a lot. Is that because the sidewalls are cracked? Can I install tubes to stiffen them?

[md 600 driver]

irv
to be blunt you need to sack the instructor and get one with some experience on enstrom and one a bit lighter you didnt add your weight its more than possible you are grossly overloaded did you or your instuctor do a w and b calc


most accidents that i have heard of are because of overpitching so please take care

and regarding the tires you have answered your own question and yes the wheels do angle a bit

[chopjock]

Ivy,
I owned a 280C for 16 years. If it was a hot day and heavy, I would wind the rpm up to full, lean off the mixture to 130 pounds at 36.5 inches of manifold pressure and cushion creep slowly out into the wind. Do not lean any more as your EGT would go too high and you would loose power. Very easy to over pitch, so listen to the engine revs as you go. Check your oil cooler is not caked up with old oil and there is no grass stuck in the vent.

In the cruise I would reduce rpm to bottom line and lean off to 85 pounds per hour fuel flow at 29 inches, watching EGT. with this I would get an endurance of 2.6 hours.

You can fit tubes in the tyres, they should be hard, 50 ppsi at least. If you buy some locally and keep them for spare in case you over inflate the old cracked up ones.

The Enstrom is a lovely bird and I have never felt safer in any other machine.
Have fun.

[lvflyer]

I guess I didn't make myself clear on weight. Total between myself and instructor was 400lbs and 120lbs fuel. 200lbs less than gross. Power issue was because fuel system was getting plugged up and eventually cut off fuel flow to one or more cylinders. Do you guys rest your arm on a knee pad so your hand in on the cyclic grip or do you just adjust as needed to operate the trim? My grip when resting my arm on my leg is about 3 inches below the trim and I'm not a tiny person.

By the way I would have to fly 4 hours to get to an instructor I trust that has Enstrom experience. Obviously the seller didn't fly it right. He never leaned the mixture. The mechanic/instructor he had didn't even clean the spark plugs and fuel injectors on last annual 20 hours ago and even had the wrong pin on the fuel screen cup which allowed the debris to bypass it.

[lvflyer]

Now I'm probably going to show the extent of my ignorance. Please be patient with me.

I went to wax my main rotors as suggested by Sharkeys and saw some pretty heavy nicks on the leading edge like a layer of aluminum was peeling. I have posted some photos here www.dahome.net/enstrom.htm (http://www.dahome.net/enstrom.htm)

Is this normal wear and tear and should these spots be repaired? Is there any approved tape for these like the big boys?
Also is there any greasing that pilots need to do regularly on these or any other maintenance that you guys do?

[FSXPilot]

email Enstrom and ask them for the procedure for attaching the latest blade tape. It is far superior to earlier tapes. Have a look at SIL 172.

http://www.enstromhelicopter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/SIL0172.pdf

[lvflyer]

I read that, but I also read some horror stories of tape coming loose or tearing. I don't think I am in an environment that would require tape, but I am wondering if the wear on mine is normal and all that is needed is some sanding and polishing. I tried some emery cloth and it smoothed out the edges then I tried a polishing stone on some of it. I've never seen aluminum flake or peal in layers like this. Is the leading edge made up of laminated layers of aluminum? Roger did say the trailing edge is more important than the leading edge. He said to make sure the trailing edge is waxed and they have found a gain of over 2 inches less manifold pressure to hover.

[Rocket2]

Ivflyer
PM sent

[lvflyer]

Here's another ignorant set of questions.

Regarding the fuel/oleo measuring stick. I'm a bit confused. Since the tanks are connected is the reading on the stick total fuel or just the fuel in that tank. Are we suppose to top both tanks to the neck for the 40 gallons?

On the oleo measurement: Mine has the extensions installed and a boot so I can't see the red line spoken of in the pilot manual. What is a fairing bump as written on the stick? How do you use the stick to measure the oleos? I assume center of attachment bolts. What should I be seeing?

I also didn't get a response to the daily maintenance. The manual says to keep the machine greased, but it doesn't go into details. Do you grease the main and tail rotors regularly and if so how much and what grease?

I worked on my door latches a little bit so they couldn't come open in flight. Why in the world did they angle the latch so all it takes is a good tug to slip past and open the door. Locking the doors is useless when left on the ramp for any reason.

[Savoia]

Enstrom 280FX registration SP-GMB crashed Saturday in Poland with the tragic loss of both aboard.

W Wielkopolsce rozbi? si? Enstrom 280FX - Altair Agencja Lotnicza (http://www.altair.com.pl/news/view?news_id=11675)

[Dennis Kenyon]

For new Enstrom owners and prospective owners.

As a 6000 hour Enstrom type experienced pilot with ownership going back to the mid 1970s, I thought I might be able to help with some of the various vagaries of Enstrom type ownership threaded above.

Rotor Blades: Yes, many of the earlier MR blades suffered various problems. The leading edge 'flaking' mentioned above is called 'exfoliation' being a form of inter-granular corrosion. The factory stainless steel leading edge tape is a good preventative as is the earlier 3Ms polyeurothene (spelling!) tape. Best applied in short lengths so that the offending portion can be removed easily. IF the tape comes adrift in flight, yes it can cause a fierce vibration and the fix is simply to land and remove the tape. Only happened to me twice in 40 years and both times following continued flight in heavy rain. The factory service letter does allow leading edge re-profiling iaw the factory approved figures. Currently there is no fix for long (over 3 inches) leading edge voiding ... Neither is trailing edge bond separation repairable although I have seen rivet repairs which are not approved in CAA land. If in doubt ask your local AME about the 'tap test' for rotor blade serviceability.

Overheating: The Lycoming 360 is nicely cowled but in older engines with poor mixture set up will often overheat in prolonged, high power hovers at highish ambient temperatures. I think there is a fix by having two oil coolers. Due to cowling the problem is self perpetuating so as the temps get higher, they tend to progress in that direction. In fact in prolonged hover training, it is often necessary to move into a short period of forward flight to bring the CHT and oil temps down.

Mixture: The numbers provided above are OK, but special mention has to be made of the best EGT indications. The Lycoming E series turbo engine (280/28C models) produce the best power at 1550 degrees with 1650 allowing the best economy setting and thus range. Mixtures should only be leaned at MAP less than 29 hg. OR to 130 lbs per hour if indicating above that fuel flow. I teach leaning using the mixture vernier control at 28 MAP to give 85-90 lbs per hour. Normal when full rich can be anything up to 130 lbs per hour so a 40 lbs per hour fuel save is possible. (a little over 5 UK gallons!) and at the UK price of £2 per litre we are talking about a saving of £40-45 an hour!!!

Here's a thing to try. Set the Enstrom at 28 MAP, and accurately trimmed to straight & level, mixture full rich. Now lean as above. Observe the fuel flow reduction, the rotor rpm INCREASE and ditto the ASI by around 5 mph. A graphic indication of the mixture leaning requirement. BUT to new pilots NO LEANING until properly briefed by a qualified and experienced instructor.

Remember the boost light is there as an ' attention getter' to remind the pilot he is approaching the max 36.5 MAP boost figure.

Lamiflexs: When flying is done ... Never just dump the lever and go off for the weekend. This places a pitch 'set' on the M/R lamiflex bearing which hastens their demise and they come in at circa $1800 a copy. (three required!) Have the collective lever raised and locked in an approximate flying position to relieve the bearing load. Caution, new pilots might attempt to start on the next sortie with the lever half up. (pre start checks!)

I like the type. Good looking, spacious cabin - over 5 feet wide, relatively fast (100 mph cruise at 11 gph) quiet, stable and can be trimmed to fly 'hands & feet off' ... three seats, a 60- to 100lb, 7 cu ft dedicated luggage locker ... autorotates almost as good as the old Jetbanger, and especially safe. There has never been a fatality in the UK on the type in over 45 years of operation. Due to the large keel surface area, I've landed the Shark safely on two occasions following T/R failure where the left hand control cable was snipped by the up going T/R blade. And once when the T/R drive shaft sheared. BUT I've never had a mechanical engine failure in some 6000 type hours. (14,650 in total rotary) One might be forgiven for asking why any one buys anything else! (only half-joking) And some of you will know, the type is near aerobatic!

I'm happy to answer any specific questions by PM, but the real answer is to make a good type experienced engineer and ditto a FI your new best friends.

Happy and safe flying to all Enstrom pilots on here. Sincerely. Dennis Kenyon.

[lvflyer]

Thank you Dennis for your input. It is very valuable to new inexperienced Enstrom owners like myself.

I've been told I can sand the exfoliated areas on the main rotors and then primer them. With these heavy blades how much material removal will effect the balance and tracking? In my research of exfoliation I assume that if I can peel the flakes of aluminum with my fingernail the corrosion is already done and I should sand to where no more can be flaked off by my fingernail. So far it appears like only a small layer is affected. I was told by Pablo at Heliblade to not try to remove the corrosion just sand it smooth. What do I do with the divets left by the exfoliation? I think I have this right, please advise. I plan on sanding smooth and using LPS3 for now to stop the corrosion then later on Alumi-prep it then apply epoxy polyamide primer then possible sandable primer then urethane. I'm sure that much painting may effect the balance, but it will be done on all 3. I don't have anyone near that can balance and track so I'm kind of stuck. Any experience with the Dynavibe? I can't afford $8k plus for a Chadwick.

[lvflyer]

I understand if the oleo pressures on the skids aren't correct it is a good reason for the severe ground rock. When I ran up to check the new Tempest plugs I almost rocked off the platform and moved the platform about a foot. I can't see the oleos because there are what are suppose to be clear dust boots added on, but they turned semi-opaque yellow. The measuring stick doesn't make sense to me because extenders are also installed. So I'm not sure if my oleos are correct. When I pull down on the tail the rear oleos collapse, but don't spring back up and when I get into the cabin none of the oleos move. Should they? What is your advise for pressures with just me mostly, 220 lbs, full fuel, and occasional passenger? When I pull on the tail should the front oleos move?

[Chopper Doc]

Email Enstrom for the pressures to set them to. Also if it is rocking on the ground your main rotor head dampers may well need bleeding as this can cause the aircraft to rock on the ground as well.

[lvflyer]

I emailed Bayard at Enstrom a couple days ago and no response so far. He posted on M1 that he had written up a guidline. I'll have to learn how to bleed the dampers, but I would think the "qualified expert mechanic" that was working on this would have done this when he replaced the lamiflex bearings less than an hour flight time ago. But it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't. They claim that they got .01ips after replacing the bearings though. Should the oleos be springly like a shock absorber or just take a set and stay there? Like I said I can collapse the rear ones by pulling down on the tail and then return them by pushing up, but they don't take a set by themselves and the front ones don't move in or out when doing that?

[timprice]

Most piston Enstrom's do rock on the ground, it when its stop's most worry.
The Enstrom does not normally suffer from ground resonance, the main problem as previously stated is unequal spacing of the blades due to the dampers, which when the shock absorbers are not equal as well just gets the old girl all excited, run it up as its says in the flight manual and just try if you can to hover her.
90% of Enstrom's if the track etc ok go smooth once the aerodynaimc force's take over, just don't loiter at flight idle on the ground.
Plus get someone to look after her, who has looked after Enstrom's before, a bit of TLC goes along way on them, but they need regular pampering to get the best out of them.
Its no good putting them in the corner and bringing them out once a month.:D

[lvflyer]

So do you pilots check the oleo pressures yourself and adjust if needed? With what equipment. I notice they have nitrogen tire fill kits at auto parts stores now. Is that something we can use with one of the oleo pumps? I tried a heavy duty truck inflation gauge to see if there was any pressure in the oleos and it seemed to either not engage the stem or it didn't register any pressure. Is there a special gauge?

[FSXPilot]

I'm guessing most pilots would get it done by their maintenance organisation. Generally we use the gauges on the Nitrogen bottle to know what the pressure is set to.

[lvflyer]

Yeh don't have one around here with the tools. I flew it today and it is most definitely the oleos. You tell me. Shook hard right before hover off of landing pad. Moved to pavement and it shook a little less on set down and pick up. Moved to grass and shook very little. I also tried a nose high pick up and it settled down as soon as I pulled the cyclic back when light on the skids. I'm pretty sure that is indicative of the oleos not at the correct pressures. I did go ahead, at the advice of a blade shop, take 120 grit on an orbital and got rid of most of the exfoliation. Enstrom manual said exfoliation is common and it does not effect anything structural as long as it isn't severe. That is why they advise installing the stainless tape. I don't think I want to do that in the middle of the states. This was minor to moderate and only effected a thin layer. As I worked it more and more flaked off so I'm assuming those bonds were already shot. I don't feel any more unbalance then when I began so I surmise the amount of material that needed to come off was no more than flying through a sworm of insects. I put a coat of LPS3 on it for the time being so I can watch and see if the corrosion has stopped. If it has I'll go ahead and etch, prime, and paint. The mechanic and last owner should never have allowed it to get this far. I also installed Tempest plugs and it runs a lot smoother. I don't know what to expect for power, but with full tanks and 10 knot wind I was able to hover with me by myself, 220lbs, at 28" to 29". Is that about right?

[heli1]

The more I read about this saga the more I wonder whether Lvflyer bought a pup!

[md 600 driver]

I think it's not that he bought a pup but he hasn't got anyone engineering wise to look after it properly and is doing it himself as his pilots licence allows

I have had a few enstroms they are lovely helicopters and fly well but they do need attention by experienced enstrom engineers

[lvflyer]

Yep I don't think the ship is a Dog but the mechanic that is so highly praised by the Enstrom peeps sure was. I think he just thought working on an Enstrom was beneath him so he cut many corners while charging the owner $5000+ for an annual every year. That is why I am not using him. I plan on taking myself and my mechanic to Enstrom school, but I just have a hard time with over $1500 each for 9 days of lectures. I might ask them if I flew up there with the ship would they walk us through a correct annual. I can't believe the previous owner, and by the looks of it, the mechanic didn't even have a service manual. All my information is from you guys and other forums. I put all the monetary reserve I had into this just so my rating wouldn't go to waste. It has been 4 years since all the rentable ships disappeared from anywhere around here. Before that I had to fly over 200 miles just to rent a 300B.

[lvflyer]

Update: Ok we took a close look at the oleos. We jacked up the front of the cockpit and the right front oleo didn't extend. I let some of the air/nitrogen out of the right front and now it collapses and extends. I still don't think they have been serviced in a very long time. The rock was a lot less so I'm sure they are all wrong. Now to find someone or the equipment to get it done right. Have any of you rented a nitrogen bottle from a welding shop and have been able to service them. What is a normal cost at an FBO to check and fill? I still haven't heard from Bayard at Enstrom so I'm not sure on the pressures. I know helodriver said he uses 200lbs in the fronts when providing rides so what would a pilot by himself require and what would a single passenger require?

[krypton_john]

I'd be very cautions (i.e. wouldn't) about touching them - due to risk of ground resonance.

Final Report: Ground resonance destroyed helicopter | Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2008-04-02/final-report-ground-resonance-destroyed-helicopter)

[FSXPilot]

The manual is not that expensive. The IPC is available on the Enstrom website.

[md 600 driver]

irv
thats realy good news that the nice people at enstrom are still providing cheap support for their helicopters ,i have a eurocopter product at the moment the IPC was over £3000 ,the maint manual was over £3000 and the MDE was well over £3000 , and the training courses for engineers need a mortgage dont know how much a nine day course would be but i wouldnt want to pay it

well done enstrom

steve ex goswa,gbpoz,gosab,n485a and gxxxx cant remember the reg [480 ]

[MOTTJB]

The landing gear oleo's are filled to 400 lb. AS far as the class being expensive you are right but I go back every couple of years just to see what is new and to keep up with the new models and with what has changed. I'm in a little different situation than most owners as to the cost because I'm not only an owner but an IA and make my living working on piston helicopters. A perfect example is the pressures, at one time it was 450 lb and at the last class I took in June it was 400lb. Remember that the struts also have 5606 oil in them and not just nitrogen ,they work like a damper and actually perform the same function. I hope this helps and if I can help in any way give me a call. BE SAFE and keep on flying. Bill Mott 570-729-7006

[cockney steve]

Just poking my nose in to set you right regarding schooling costs.
The instructors are almost certainly NOT "1%-ers"
Start with the premises....capital cost, maintenance, heat ,light, insurance....Heck! you know what it costs to keep a home going...would be as cheap to rent a motel-room.
Loss of capital...if it's tied up in training, it can't be used to buy materials, labour, machine tools etc. th produce parts which make a profit.
Cost of people to actually work out and collate what needs to be done, when, and how.
Liability insurance....a biggie in the lawyer-led claim culture.
The staff to administer all these activities and liaise with people like yourself.
they made the profit on the initial sale and they make a profit on spares, but how many years is that profit spread over? the fact that there aren't many billionaires in the Heli-manufacturing industry,and,unlike banking, it's not crowded with fat-cats, would suggest the pickings are fairly lean.

Yes, it's a substantial sum, but compared with the cost of an annual, the longer you use what you've learnt, the cheaper it becomes.
I wonder how much it would have saved you if you'd done the Course BEFORE you purchased your machine?...you have had a very expensive and frustrating learning-curve so far....don't be "penny-wise, pound foolish"....just to add, I've no dog in the fight whatsoever.

[FSXPilot]

Does your engineer not have a tracking and balancing kit? Enstrom's can be made to fly smoothly. There is a host of things that might be causing the vibrations. If the vibration cannot be reduced sufficiently by tracking and balancing then there is probably something worn. Places to check would be the swashplate then the head. There are 12 bearings in the head that don;t last for ever and if one or more of them is not moving smoothly they will need to be replaced to get the vibrations down to an acceptable level.

[chopjock]

Also check the dampers are bled properly. You can try swinging the blades for and aft with your hand whilst on the ground,(hold tip of blade in your hand and swing forwards and backwards about one foot) this will swill the oil around in the dampers, check to "feel" all three blades are the same.

[Agaricus bisporus]

During my time on Enstroms (F28A and F28C) we had four in our fleet and looked after half a dozen owners' machines. I spent an extraordinary amount of time doing track and balance on them and I got the impression that some can be smoothed out and some just can't, but none of them stayed smooth for long. I certainly recognise that wunper as a particularly stubborn one to deal with. There certainly was the odd machine that was just rough and could not be smoothed out no matter what you did.

[Dennis Kenyon]

Hallo IV Flyer ... as an experienced Enstrom pilot and FI, I have to endorse the last two posts. Please have a type experienced engineer go through the drive system as from the two videos you have posted, the level of cabin vibration is excessive. If you do not know, the rotor blade tracking with Vibrex tracking equipment or similar should bring the accelerations to UNDER .1 (being one tenth of an inch per second.) I'm sure your engineer will know all this. Suspect components can be Lamiflex bearings, dampers, excessive friction in the control system or possibly just poor RB tracking.

Enjoy your Enstrom. DRK

[lvflyer]

Thanks for your input all. The Lamiflex bearings were replaced before I took delivery and I was told by the seller that the readings were .1ips. I can say that the difference between initial test flight before purchase and the flight just before delivery was night and day. Before I couldn't read the instruments it shook so bad in the hover and after the replacement it was smooth. I can now hover practically hands off and I can fly hands off for a while as well, but I don't know what .1ips should feel like. I don't trust the AP that worked on this and nobody else does track and balance so I was considering investing in a Dynavibe since Bayard DuPont at Enstrom tested the system and approves. The vibration is primarily in forward flight so I assume that is tracking more than balance. I hope to fly up north a bit this summer and have a couple former owners of this ship take a ride and tell me if everthing is normal. I'll try the swinging the blades as described and I plan on getting the bleed kit from Bayard. I'm in the process of getting the tools and nitrogen tank together to properly service the struts, but that shake on take off has settled down since I let some pressure out of one of the fronts. I'll do it properly when the weather warms up. It's sitting in the hangar with space heaters now anyway.

[FSXPilot]

If it is primarily in forward flight chances are it will need a trim tab adjustment. As I said earlier get an Engineer who is experienced on Enstroms. Anyone working on helicopters without a tracking and balancing machine is pissing about.

[cockney steve]

I don't know how it translates to full-size,...but.....model helis are very critical on blade-balance.....chordwise is just as important as lengthwise,and , of course, the perfectly -balanced blade should weigh exactly the same as any of the others on the same rotorhead.

When you're running 2,000 RPM headspeed, with almost a 2-metre diameter rotary scythe that's as fast and twitchy as hell, you want it right!

The bigger they are, the easier to fly,(inertia and gyroscopic effect) but the more important accurate dynamic balance, track and good bearings in the system.

[timprice]

I think some of the later Enstroms are much smother as Enstrom have started building better blades since the 480 has been in production.
Its far more critical with the extra weight and RRPM.
Also I have found it is very important to have a matched set of blades if you want a good ride and stick.
Keep flying and have a Great Christmas and Happy New Year to every one.:D

[lvflyer]

I know what you mean. I flew a Tiger 50. That thing would thrash itself with the lightest off balance, but I think that was due to the high rotor RPM. Big difference in full size and if it was that critical flying through bugs would cause a crash.

[lvflyer]

Has anyone had experience with the PB-3 track and balance analyzer? I can't afford a Chadwick and was considering a Dynavibe when I came across the PB-3. I received the following when I inquired to see if it would work on a 3-blade system. The only thing I see is that there is only one accelerometer which means it would have to be moved and tests repeated to get horzontal and vertical. I'm interested in your comments and I know this is best left up to someone with experience, but around here that isn't an option. This also looks like something that may be mounted permanently for constant monitoring as well. Here is what I was sent:

> Is the PB-3 OK to use with an Enstrom 280C? Can you refer me to any
> user that has experience using this with an Enstrom or other 3 blade
> helicopter? Where do I buy in the states? I was considering a
> Dynavibe till I read about this.
Sorry, because the rotor balancing capability of the PB-3 is very new,
I only know about its use with 2 bladed gyro rotors. A couple of
customers have started using it with helicopters but I haven't had any
feedback from them yet.
As far as the PB-3 is concerned, I can't see any reason why it can't be
used to balance a 3 bladed rotor. It should still be able to measure
the vibration phase and magnitude. The real unknown is whether the PB-3
app's support for move lines is adequate for that application. At this
time, the app only supports 2 move lines. Mind you, that's better than
what the Dynavibe supports because that product doesn't make any
attempt whatsoever to suggest adjustments. I expect in the future the
app will be extended to make it more useful for helicopter rotor
balancing.
At the end of the day, you could still use the PB-3 to measure the
vibration values and then plot them manually on a paper polar chart that
shows the move lines that have been determined by the helicopter's
manufacturer. That's all the Dynavibe can do, anyway.
Worldwide sales of the PB-3 are direct from Smart Avionics. The
prop+rotor version of the PB-3 costs 650 UKP and UPS shipping to the USA
is 60 UKP. Payment is by PayPal or bank transfer. Current lead time is
less than 1 week.
Cheers,
Mark
--
Smart Avionics Ltd. -- producer of innovative avionics for homebuilt
aircraft.

[ROCK DOCTOR 123]

I am an experienced enstrom engineer and I have to say that messing with the trim tabs for forward flight adjustment would not be recommended as the trim tabs are for stick shack adjustments only, for correct reflex angle of the blades.

[ROCK DOCTOR 123]

Hello there, I am new at this forum but it seems like there is a shortage of experienced Enstrom mechanics around for the enstrom lovers out there. As an enstrom AME, I have to say that most importantly, maintenance action to prevent ground rocking is to re-introduce factory grip friction about the flapping and lead-lag axis. That will control the blades and tracking will become predictable and efficient. The age old adjusting of the oleos is important but is more of a bandaid in my opinion because we don't always have the luxury of a flat landing area with just the right amount of friction for the skids to slide on.

[ROCK DOCTOR 123]

Just my 2 cents. It seem that you are going to great lengths to get this ship right, just remember to have your grip friction right, this will keep the machine stable in any condition and will allow you to ground track and flight track with comfort

[lvflyer]

Yep lack of mechanics that know the quirks of the Enstrom is a problem. If you read earlier the previous owner got duped by one around here. Leaves me with noone. My mechanic and I will have to learn to do it ourselves. I plan on attending the factory training, but seems that focuses on the 480 more than piston. I guess all is the same or similar, but this is a 70s vintage bird. I hope the maintenance manual will help with the grip friction or I can get up and see the previous mechanic that rebuilt this in the past.

[ROCK DOCTOR 123]

They have a real good procedure in the maintenance manual starting with using trim tab adjustments for removing stick shake-but you have to have a stable A/C on the ground firstly. That's wy friction is so impotant. I have been to the enstrom course with Lee Berdue I guess he forgot to mention this procedure, had to figure it out on my own. Different size shims (.001 thou on up to .020 I believe)can be purchased(cheap to get) combinations of these shims are fitted behind the DU washers to get the proper grip close tolerance fit, then when you start clamping the grip it will have a nice friction to it. Rule of thumb would be the grip should just remain in the full flapping position while blades are off. I can walk you through all the steps if you like and chances are, you probably won't need a stobex .Good luck with it all.

[dupontrotors]

I did fairly extensive testing of the Dynavibe on the Enstrom helicopters and it works just fine. it is slightly slower than a Chadwick but is easy to use and accurate. I made a polar chart for it if you are interested.

[email protected]

[dupontrotors]

We don't recommend setting the flapping shims with tight friction anymore, as the friction changes the track will change. We actually shim the flapping bearings inside the U block now and don't worry about the friction at all.

In my extensive experience tracking Enstroms, I found that the best procedure is to leave the shimming loose enough that the grips do not stay up. Our latest tracking procedures (which I wrote) can be found on the web site under; Support : Technical Support : Tech Tips.

Also there is a revised TR balance procedure. Placing the accelerometer horizontally takes most of the hassle out of the balance procedure.

[Gaseous]

The new tracking tips are an improvement as is the advice on shimming the grips. Our experience of easing the grip friction so they drop under their own weight is it makes the whole tracking procedure easier and the ship fly smoother. We've been doing that for years now.

Some years ago I made a Laptop based track/balancer. Main rotor only. It uses a couple of modules with accelerometers in 3 planes and fires a strobe. I've used it successfully on quite a few ships over the years.

I have often noticed a problem with old/assorted/repaired/repainted blades. (plenty of them in the UK!)

It is most obvious at the hover stage. Once the hover is set to 0.2 ips (or less), if the tip targets are strobed they are usually tracking nearly in the same plane. If the aircraft is then landed and the tip path observed with no pitch applied at the same RRPM, a well matched set will be still tracking the same. The rest of the procedure is easy and the ship will fly well.

However, I have seen several times big deviations at flat pitch with tip path splits of 3 or 4 inches, yet close tracked in the hover. These blades are almost impossible to track. They either fly well in the cruise and are horrible in autorotation or are a lumpy compromise in all phases of flight - and it takes hours to get it that 'good'.

I'm sure on new ships the blades are right but it seems 'it' goes out as blades age, get painted and get swapped over the years.

The 'it' is chordwise centre of gravity.

By matching the chordwise c of g of all 3 blades, it is possible to correct this problem and get the ship to fly smoothly, easily. It can be done with paint (in theory), by substituting a blade or by redistributing weights at the blade tip ( I know, := ) My first aircraft had 2 'A' blades and 1 'U' and it was a pig when I got it, but once set up it flew beautifully until one of the A's started to debond. With a smooth flying ship a 2.5 inch trailing edge debond was immediately obvious although not alarming. I scrapped the blade.

My second ship had a set with consecutive numbered blades but was bad. Again with a little effort matching chordwise c of g, we got it silky smooth.

I suspect if the chordwise C of G is way out, the blade is getting towards end of life and should be carefully watched for debonds, or scrapped.

I'm certain that a mismatched set makes for a poor ride and hours spent tracking.

I picked up a set with consecutive numbers and only 260 hours TT to replace my odd set so I'll be interested to see how they fly when my 28 takes to the air again in just a few weeks.

[Phoinix]

Hey Enstrom community!

Our flight school just sold our Schweizer 300C due to parts (un)availability and we are days away from getting an Enstrom 280FX. A lot of training material will need to be established and I'm looking for a helping hand.

Are any flight manuals or training manuals that you could share in pdf format?
I got some great material for Enstrom 480 that I could share, but we aimed slightly lower than our initial expectations.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Jure
blenderpilot(at)gmail.com

[rotorboater]

How about this

http://rototexheli.com/productos/f28f-and-280fx-training-guide.pdf

[Phoinix]

A big thanks to rotorboater and Jonathan!



All I need now is a pdf FLM. Anyone?

[FLY 7]

That's excellent.


Do Enstrom do the same training manual (on pdf) for the Turbine 480B?

[Phoinix]

The one I have is from Enstrom.

[CO280fx]

I have never seen a PDF version of an EN28 RFM but that Pilots Training Guide is a great place to start. I do have a scanned version of a 480B RFM, and PDF versions of the EN28 IPC and Mx manuals. Let me know if interested.

-JMc

[FLY 7]

The one I have is from Enstrom.
Is that for the 480, and do you have it on PDF?

[CO280fx]

I have PDF versions of the 280fx/f28f and 480B Pilot Training Guides and the 480B RFM. PM or email [email protected] if you need.

-JMc

[lvflyer]

Dupont have you heard or seen the PB-3 system? It uses a smart phone app for the computations so all the expense of software and processing is gone. Here is what the manufacturer sent me when asked if it could be used on an Enstrom.

> Is the PB-3 OK to use with an Enstrom 280C? Can you refer me to any
> user that has experience using this with an Enstrom or other 3 blade
> helicopter? Where do I buy in the states? I was considering a
> Dynavibe till I read about this.
Sorry, because the rotor balancing capability of the PB-3 is very new,
I only know about its use with 2 bladed gyro rotors. A couple of
customers have started using it with helicopters but I haven't had any
feedback from them yet.
As far as the PB-3 is concerned, I can't see any reason why it can't be
used to balance a 3 bladed rotor. It should still be able to measure
the vibration phase and magnitude. The real unknown is whether the PB-3
app's support for move lines is adequate for that application. At this
time, the app only supports 2 move lines. Mind you, that's better than
what the Dynavibe supports because that product doesn't make any
attempt whatsoever to suggest adjustments. I expect in the future the
app will be extended to make it more useful for helicopter rotor
balancing.
At the end of the day, you could still use the PB-3 to measure the
vibration values and then plot them manually on a paper polar chart that
shows the move lines that have been determined by the helicopter's
manufacturer. That's all the Dynavibe can do, anyway.
Worldwide sales of the PB-3 are direct from Smart Avionics. The
prop+rotor version of the PB-3 costs 650 UKP and UPS shipping to the USA
is 60 UKP. Payment is by PayPal or bank transfer. Current lead time is
less than 1 week.

[rick1128]

Just saw the new trainer yesterday at HeliExpo. Called the TH180. Looks interesting. They trimmed the tail some and lowered the empty weight. They are shooting for around 1500 pounds. Personally I don't feel the lowered enough. The engine is a Lycoming HIO-390 producing 210hp. Non turbo charged. I think that Enstrom will lose some of the training market they already have the operators in the higher elevation. The rotor head is the same, too bad they didn't go with the elastameric dampers. The reason I was given that hydraulic dampers are better at preventing ground resonance.

They added a governor and electric clutch. I understand the governor, but the electric clutch? The old system works extremely well and has almost no maintenance except for a possible adjustment or two during inspections.

It will be interesting to see how it goes over in the next year or two.

The machine on the floor is a mockup as the only real machine right now is an engineering test machine.

[timprice]

I think its a big mistake sticking with a big old piston engine considering price of Avgas in Europe plus they are thinking of making some changes to Avgas for environment etc
and as you say the elastomeric dampers were great just sacrificed for to save other changes.:ok:

[rick1128]

Since their primary market is still the USA, they most likely decide to go the piston route. Also they already have a turbine trainer the 480. As for the elastomeric damper, Enstrom admits that they are basing the machine off the current type certificate, so they are very likely stuck with the hydraulic dampers.

[timprice]

Real shame the elastomeric dampers were very good, composite blades would be good too, would give a nice improvement to performance.:rolleyes:

[rick1128]

I wouldn't be too quick to change the blades. On the Enstrom they are an on-condition item.

[FSXPilot]

They are but most private owners don't fly that much anyway and in the UK they normally don't last much longer than 10-12 years before the trailing edge shows some signs of delamination.

[Gaseous]

Well, I seem to recall saying on here years ago the 28A would be a great trainer with less weight, more power and a governor.

Looks like thats what the TH180 is. :p:ok:

I have no doubt it with that weight loss, extra power and governor it will be a very capable and safe trainer. The heavy blades make entry into autorotation easy and safe and in my opinion that is not the place to save weight. The unseemly scramble to get the lever down in an R22 is not an example Enstrom should follow with a trainer.

The 28A had the makings of a great trainer but had too many 'gotchas' to compete with the R22.

Enstrom is Chinese owned. I wonder if the choice of the Lyco is aimed at the Chinese market. Its cheaper and easier to buy and maintain a piston.

I also wonder if the 390 is mogas certified. That would make a lot of sense. Except in the UK where mogas cost is all bloody tax.

There is a mogas burning 210bhp lyco 390 used in the fixed wing world.

[lvflyer]

Hey guys, while my shark is still in the deep freeze I was wondering something. Can the engine be started with the rotors secured from turning like if I wanted to warm the engine up in the hangar?

[Dennis Kenyon]

YES ... but you don't want the drive belt adjustment to be over tight. If the blades start turning on a normal start-up, you might find yourself marking and damaging the belt with engine running and blades tied. Enstrom in Menominee will have the formal answer. Dennis K

[chopper2004]

Missed the unveiling by a minute or so :( as was at the other end but took these


http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/IMG_9230_zps7e59a5fa.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/IMG_0618_zpsd9bcc924.jpg

Cheers

[lvflyer]

That was my concern Dennis. As it is now if I idle for long enough the rotor speed will marry with the engine speed after a while. I don't know if that is because of over tight adjustment or just the nature of rubbing on the belt. The belt is plenty loose, but with any touching on the drive pulley I assume there will be movement. Is there a certain amount of resistance that I should feel if I hold back the rotors by hand? Of course they turn freely with engine off, but I"m sure that's because of the sprag.

[Dennis Kenyon]

Correctly adjusted, the blades should remain stationary with the engine running at the normal idle of 1400 to 1500. I own 1104 280C which runs as above. If your blades progressively run up to eventually match the engine speed at idle, (needles married) the belt drive system is NOT in correct adjustment.

I'm sure you understand the lower pulley rotates freely inside the belt loop with the manual clutch dis-engaged as does the jockey pulley. Some 'stickiness' in the belt can be improved with the infamous 'French Chalk!' Hope this helps, but Menominee is always the final source for type information.

Take care. DRK.

[valve guide]

Hi Pruners, I am trying to get some technical info on the 280, mtow, empty weight, fuel burn/capacity, rate of climb etc etc. Can anyone direct me or help as all I seem to find is info on the 280c. Also if I was going to fly this at around 1500-2000 ft above sealevel in the uk would it make any difference whether or not it was a 280 or a 280c as is the turbo not there to kick in at high altitudes when its very warm? Any other feedback on the 280 would be most welcome. thanks in anticipation :)

[valve guide]

Would be really grateful for any help re the above post pleeeeeese!

[Gaseous]

The 280 is the same as a 28a with a pointy front. The turbo on a C will not make any real difference at 1500-2000 feet. 28As are fine up to 7500 in the uk. Beyond that weight, temperature, bravery all start to factor. I think I have been up to 9000 ish but its not something I would do regularly. Where the turbo does help is at high altitude (why go there?) or getting out of a tight LZ on a hot day with 3 on board with full tanks. You need all 205 hp then and you dont get it in a non turbo.

Off the top of my head stats for an A are as follows. The 280 will be very similar.

AUW 2150lbs, empty, most are below 1650. Some are not, so 2 adults are fine. 2 lightweights and a child if youre going 3 up. Be prepared not to fill the tanks full.

Burn is 12-14 us gph depending on how fast you want to go. At sensible weights you can get 1000fpm, 700 ish if you are at mauw. Depends on the temperature of course.

A 28a/280 is a great ship and safe if flown conservatively and well under maximum weight. My experience is low hour pilots are attracted because they are cheap. They then push the envelope to the limit and it all goes wrong. I then buy the wreckage cheap for my parts collection:).

The turbo is more forgiving and I would recommend it to low hour pilots despite its similarity on paper.

Edit 30usg standard, 40 usg as an option.

[lvflyer]

I own a 280C. Book numbers on mine with a few add ons are

Gross weight 2350lbs.
Empty weight 1604lbs
Useful load 746lbs

I do not have a lot of time in it, but it does have plenty of power compared to R22.

You can easily overboost with the turbo so you have to stay on top of it. Especially on a hot start.

Summer with full fuel and 2 adults you have to use good technique and keep the RPM at the top for best performance. I haven't had 3 in it yet.

[lvflyer]

OK I finally got a chance to service my struts according to Bayard's instructions, see my previous posts about ground rock. I discovered another thing the former A&P, Jerry L, did not do. Certainly doesn't deserve his helicopter guru reputation. Each one had very little fluid and the fluid that was there was foam. Each one had very little if any nitrogen, or I would'nt doubt air, in them. This guy charged $5000 for an annual. I would think the struts would have been serviced for that. Found one somewhat stuck it was so dry. So now the question. Bayard's instructions said older machines with the extensions should use around 300lbs in front and 350lbs in rear. I did not like the way it stood so I put in 450 rear and 400 front. I have a dip stick that has the strut measurement on the back, but it is for the 280FX. Can anyone tell me how I can use that stick to see if I am standing right now? It is written on the stick "centerline fairing bump" on one end. What does that mean?

[timprice]

Nice pictures of new Enstrom looks a bit like 28C-2 but with spilt screen.
Be interesting to see how much she cost's.

[Ian Corrigible]

$365,000 (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/hai-convention-news/2014-02-25/enstrom-unveils-new-low-cost-training-helicopter)
....
I/C

[lvflyer]

Dennis,

I was finally able to dig out from our deep freeze and fire it up. I was mistaken on the rotor RPM at idle. It actually only reached 25 RPM at idle. Is that a little tight on the belt? Also can you reply to my question about the struts?

Dirk

[lvflyer]

I just purchased maintenance manuals for my 77 shark. Chip advised that I get the 280F manual as well so I did. I'm a little confused on the lubrication requirements. My log book shows that Mobil 28 grease was used in the main rotor components, but the 280F manual says not to use Mobil 28 grease. As a pilot for periodic lubrication needs what grease should I have in my arsenal? Is the required grease compatible with Mobil 28?

[rick1128]

LV,

Go on the Enstrom website and check the Service Letters. The number you want is SIL168. Enstrom changed the lubrication requirements of some of the rotor hub bearings a few years ago. Mobil 28 is the wrong grease for some of the parts. If you have it, the bearings will have to be purged.

When are you located?

[Dennis Kenyon]

Sorry for the delay ... been out in the breeze earning a crust or two.

Not sure where you get your 25 rpm from. (rotor rpm?) Your flight manual will advise the E1AD engine as fitted to the standard C model should idle at 1400 t0 1500 rpm. At that speed in reasonably still air, the blades should not turn unless the belt is incorrectly adjusted, but please refer the problem to the factory maintenance manual or a qualified with type experience.

We type experienced pilots will always be happy to help but the proper source for information is the factory publications.

Best wishes. Dennis Kenyon.

[lvflyer]

I'm in Peoria Illinois now. Use to live in Vegas. Moved back here in 2003. Owned Fearless Freadys when I was there.

[lvflyer]

Dennis, When at engine RPM 1400 to 1500 the main rotor will begin to turn and settles at a rotor RPM of 25 with it disengaged. The manual doesn't go into great detail on belt tightness when disengaged. It is more concerned with how it is when it is engaged. My question would be at 25 RPM is there too much friction on the belt to hold it back at idle? I know the engineers have the definitive official answer, but just trying to get some idea. After engaging and then disengaging the clutch the rotor will continue to turn at near married needles and won't go below. I would assume that is because of the high inertia and the slight friction on the belt at engine idle. I wonder why they didn't include a rotor brake? I know they don't want the R22 idling without engaging the rotor so I was wondering if Enstrom is the same.

[lvflyer]

OK I read SIL 0168. I'm confused a little. It says Aeroshell 14 is preferred, but can't be used with Lamiflex bearings so Aeroshell 22 is OK as an alternative. So is Aeroshell 22 OK to use as a universal grease for all the bearings? I would like to get some feedback from other owners on this. This is my first ownership of a helicopter and I was told that it was wise to give the bearings a shot of grease now and then between annuals. What is the normal practice of some of you hands on pilots?

[FSXPilot]

Aeroshell 22 is more expensive but it is the best grease to use on all the bearings. If you are doing the greasing yourself don't forget the clutch cable or the bottom pulley.

[lvflyer]

I do prefer synthetics. I've been a fan of Amsoil in my cars for over 30 years. Mobil 28 costs a little bit more than Aeroshell 22 so that isn't a problem. Why would Enstrom engineers prefer Aeroshell 14? Do I have to clean out all the Mobil 28 before using Aeroshell 22?

[rick1128]

LV,

It is my understanding that you have to purge the bearings of the old grease when you change greases. I am not a mechanic so I am not sure of the whys and wherefore's of these.

Next there is no such thing as too much grease. I worked for a flight school where we greased the rotor heads every morning. And the heads would always take some fresh grease.

[Dennis Kenyon]

Having another stab at your problem ... as the blades are turning with the system disengaged, you have the belt too tight. The crankshaft drive pulley should turn easily inside the belt when the system is disengaged with the belt actually able to flop around slightly.

A second possibility is the drive side of the belt has become 'sticky' with ageing. A quick cure would be a good dose of French Chalk, but the overall problem is too tight adjustment.

PS. From inspection are all the belt grooves in good condition with no detached tearing on the drive face. How old is the belt?

Regards & good luck. Dennis K

[lvflyer]

What is French Chalk? I'll take a closer look at belt and logs to see how old it is. On another note I finally was able to bleed my dampers. Great tool by Bayard, by the way. I got about 1 to 2 cc of air out of two of the dampers and less than 1cc out of the last. Is that enought to cause issues. Should I expect to see some improvement when I take it out tomorrow?

[Gaseous]

Aeroshell 22 is not the best grease for reciprocating bearings apparently. There is increased fretting of the bearing surfaces with clay based greases (which 22 is). Soap based greases perform better in this application so I use aeroshell 14 in the tail rotor feathering bearings and the main rotor flapping and lead-lag bearings. As grease can leak fom the main rotor feathering bearings and there is evidence aeroshell 14 can damage lamiflexes, the main rotor feathering bearings get 22. The fretting problem appears worst in the head bearings but doesnt seem a problem in the feathering bearings. I guess its to do with water ingress.

Everything else gets 22.

It is necessary to at least purge on changing from 22 to 14.

I dont know why soap and clay based greases dont mix, but apparently they dont.

[lvflyer]

Dennis,

I took a closer look at the belt and clutch system. No cracks present in tracks. Idler pulley turns freely so apparently the belt is sticky. Again, what is french chalk and what are the benefits of its use?

Dirk

[FLY 7]

What is french chalk ? - Talcum powder

[lvflyer]

So I should put that on the belt so it doesn't grab so much when disengaged and I would think stop the squeeling as it is being engaged? Any procedure you guys use?

[FLY 7]

Can't advise, as I've never used it on a helicopter.


But, I have used it on the belt drive of my hifi turntable, and it worked, eliminating the start up rumble and smoothing the drive take up.

[chopjock]

Just sprinkle half a handful of chalk around the inside area of the belt, over the grooves. Rotate the head as you do it so the belt goes around, disengaged clutch obviously.:ok:
Then beat the belt with the back of your hand to make sure there is no pile of chalk in one place. That's how I did it on mine.

[lvflyer]

chopjock,

What symptoms were you experiencing that led you to use talcum powder on your belt? What were the results?

[chopjock]

What symptoms were you experiencing that led you to use talcum powder on your belt? What were the results?

Clutch would snatch and drag on idle. The belt would grab and vibrate whilst engaging and make a horrific noise. If you open the little inspection hatch by the clutch and look at the belt whilst the clutch is disengaged and the engine is idling, the belt should just hang there quite still. Maybe dancing at little at the bottom loop that covers loosely over the engine crankshaft drive pulley.
Adding french chalk effectively adds lubrication to the belt and the whole clutch becomes much more behaved. You will still get a screeching noise whilst engaging though. I have over 1600 hours on the 280C.:ok:

[lvflyer]

Thanks. Getting a warming spell this weekend maybe I'll get a chance to look at it and put some baby powder on it. With your experience did you ever bleed the dampers? If yes then how much air is too much air. I bled mine and got 1 to 2 ccs of air out of 2 of them and 1 cc out of the other. I'm anxious to see if that will make any difference for me. I also got all my oleos setup per Bayard Dupont's instructions as well. If you did bleed them yourself, did you use the two syringes and did you cycle the dampers and bleed them again after using the tools?

[chopjock]

No I left the dampers (rotorhead and skids) to my very competent engineer.:ok:

[Dennis Kenyon]

Apologies for having to drop out ... mainly due to work!

The infamous French Chalk (normally white) is available from major parts factors, although the two tubs I had to buy this week were a horrid 'yellow' ... but fashion aside, the stuff works especially well when used on the Enstrom drive system and is correctly applied. Flying serial number 1104 yesterday even with a new pilot, rotor engagement was totally silent throughout the whole engagement process. The chalk also helps soak up unwanted engine oil in the drive belt compartment.

But to re-state. The belt system MUST be adjusted correctly since there should be nil 'dragging' of the M/R blades at engine idle 1400 - 1500 ... and certainly not to the extent earlier advised where engine and rotor speed become 'married.' .................... now back to the grind stone! DRK

[lvflyer]

Dennis and others,

I got some baby powder that was just talc and no corn starch. I tried to get some on the belt, but did discover the belt was coated in lube cast off and sticky. It was easily slid along the pulleys, however. I also had a friend hang on to the main rotor at idle and all it took was a very light touch on the finger tips. So apparently the belt needs to be cleaned or just use more talc. It isn't a big issue at the moment because winter is gone so no need to warm up the engine occasionally.

For those new to Enstroms or thinking about joining us as an owner I just wanted to confirm what the experts have been telling me about the ground rock. I followed Bayard Dupont's guide on servicing the oleos and ended up having 400psi nitrogen in the front and 450psi in the rear. That is what is recommended for the F models, but mine is a 1977 280C with extensions. I purchased the damper bleeder tools and followed the simple procedure. I got 1 to 2 CC air from 2 of the dampers and 1 CC from the other. Let me tell you this helicopter is a whole different machine. Baby butt smooth on run up and hands off hovering. It makes a lot of difference when you bleed those dampers. Funny thing is the lamiflex bearings were replaced before I took delivery so you would assume the mechanic would have handled that. NOPE, just one of many things that were not handled by JL. Today I found the drain plug loose on the tail gear box and the wrong unauthorized fluid in the gear box. Any comments on Swepco 201? That's what was in it and it is not on the approved list. There is no need for track and balance now, but I think I am still going to permanently install the sending unit and sensors of the PB-3 so I can continually monitor any changes on my smart phone.

[lvflyer]

Thanks for all your valuable information. I value your experience. I need some clarification on the rigging of the collective trim. Up till now, since the collective friction in on the left side I would hold down on the co-pilot collective then release the friction since the collective would pop up with force while on the ground. I did some research and read in the maintenance manual for the 280F that when the collective trim is adjusted correctly the collective should not rise when the friction is released. Mine pops up with force so it is difficult to release the friction when the co-pilot collective is removed. So the manual said to back off the spring pack to balance the forces. I have loosened the spring pack so far that there are no threads showing on the top and the collective still pops up when the friction is released. The only way to get it to stay down without the friction was to adjust the position of the spring pack more towards the center point, just slightly over center. Still when I pull the collective up a little the force is quite a bit coming up. When flying slow it gets quite tiring holding the collective down or while waiting for departure clearance in a hover. My question to you experienced owners is what is the normal behavior of the collective and is the spring pack adjustment to balance forces only for in flight? Does your collective pop up on the ground or ease up? I know the spring isn't weak, if anything it is too strong. Do any of you use the collective friction in flight, even though there is a placard that says not too. In the 280C maintenance manual description it says the friction is for in flight forces so which is correct?

[Gaseous]

The collective should not pop up when the friction is released. It should be set up so that the spring capsule is 'over centre'. The manual tells you where to measure and how much. At rest, the lever should stay where you put it for approx the first inch or so of travel and then spring up with force. At normal RPM it should stay where you put it with no friction. If not it's adjusted wrong. If it wanders up there is too much spring pressure and the capsule should be unscewed. Make sure you are turning it the right way. From your descripion I think you might have increased the pressure if no threads are showing. Make sure it doesnt come apart. That would be really bad.:ouch:

Ive just got bdkd back in the air and had a similar problem on the first flight. The anwser is you need 'more over centre' ie. the collective moves more before the spring kicks in. This makes a heck of a difference and the balance between over centre adjustment and spring strength is a fine balance.

Agreed. It's horrible with too much up pressure.

[Enneagram3]

I learned in G-SHRK owned by Vanguard helicopters with their CFI who nearly killed me due to running out of fuel... The collective on this machine used to raise itself while in flight and the pressure needed to hold it down was quite significant. I had to jump ship to another type and another Flying School because of the lies and problems I had with Vangaurd. All in all, this particular machine was underpowered as it was a non turbo downgraded aircraft, the owner of the company refused to finish off my training after I had reached 35 of my 45 hrs needed.
Also to ad insult to injury the company lied on the MOR supplied to the CAA for the running out of fuel saying that it was a fuel starvation problem due to a malfunctioned part.... :ugh:

[chopjock]

with their CFI who nearly killed me due to running out of fuel

Let me tell you running out of fuel in an Enstrom is a "non event". I suspect you were more scared due to ignorance of how well they glide. The fact you are talking about it proves that.
If ever I could choose which type to run out of fuel in, it would be an Enstrom.:ok:

http://www.pprune.org/4828942-post253.html

[Gaseous]

Chopjock.
Running out of fuel is a big deal, even in an Enstrom. G-BAAU for instance. Ask the owner!
Have a look at the other Enstrom thread G-OJMF. I'm not saying it ran out of fuel although its a possibility. It almost certainly autorotated into the forest. Would you want to land there because of a basic stupid error?

see Bild 15073 « Tödlicher Hubschrauberabsturz in Kirchham (http://www.salzi.at/2014/04/toedlicher-hubschrauberabsturz-in-kirchham/?pid=15073)

Dont run out of fuel!

[lvflyer]

Well I had fuel starvation on my first flight as owner, but fortunately it was only 3 feet off the ground and pretty much a non-event regards to the autorotation, but I wouldn't want to have to choose a landing spot because I have to. My faith would be at its greatest strength about then. I have to say I really appreciate Bayard Dupont at Enstrom. He has been an excellent resource for all my issues. Regarding the collective trim he has confirmed that the adjustment was way off, thanks JL the A&P, again. He apparently didn't have a clue.

Here is what Bayard told me:

The collectively will pop up when the blades are not up to RPM as the spring is to off set the downwards forces of the blades during flight. When the blades aren't turning, the forces aren't there so the collective jumps up.

That said, the proper way to adjust it is to turn the link rod until the bell crank just goes over center. The collective should just stay down (doesn't work if you have a throttle correlator).

Then hover the helicopter and adjust the spring capsule so the force to pull the collective up is the same as to push it down

I recommend you start by adjusting the tie rod so there are about 1/2 of threads showing and the capsule so the threads are about even at the top and bottom. Then adjust the tie rod until the collective will stay down on its own by a little bit.

Then fly it. Hover and pull straight up about 15.feet, pause and push down.

Adjust the capsule so that the up and down forces you have to exert are the same.

Let me know how you make out.

Best regards,
Pierre duPont by Windows Phone
(M) 9203710982
bdupont,@enstromhelicopter.com

[Aussiecop]

I don't have a dog in the fight of talking about A&P issues with the Enstrom, only had one issue with an F28F. Did all of my training in one. The thing I do agree with is the previous ops comment about Bayard Dupont. I have spent time with him twice now and he is clearly the most knowledgeable person in the world about their airframes and probably every single problem that anyone has ever has with one of their airframes.

Makes me wonder, with the departure this year of Jerry, how far behind Bayard is from retirement. That will leave a massive knowledge base hole at Enstrom, although from what I see of Bayard, I bet he is sharing as much of his knowledge as possible within the company with hopes that someone can step into his very large shoes to fill.

[lvflyer]

He seems to be quite busy traveling all over the world. If he does go I hope he stays reachable. Our community is really small and unique. My experience tells me no just any A&P will suffice. I'm learning as much as I can to double check my A&P. I would think it should be the other way around.

[Aussiecop]

He may still have many good years in him, purely speculating on any retirement. I do have some good A&P connections in Indiana for Enstrom's though if you ever get stuck on something. All who have benefitted from years of Bayards great tutelidge.

[lvflyer]

Another question for you fine experienced Enstrom folk. 1977 280C. I am finding as the temperatures increase around here if I fly slow for surveillance or other need to slow down I find my oil temperature increasing. It isn't going beyond max, but my JPI screams at me, starts flashing, starting at about 230. Once I speed up it starts decreasing, but I'm concerned with thermal runaway or something. Is it because I may be leaning too agressively, 1530-1570 TIT, or just because I'm not getting enough fresh air through the intake? What is your experience and do you have any recommendations? I see in the logs they removed a secondary oil cooler. I wonder if that is a solution to reinstall it. If not I guess I have to limit my low and slow or slow orbits.

[rick1128]

LV,

First check the ducting to the oil cooler. If you hover over freshly cut grass, I have found that they tend to collect a bit of it. As for the aux oil cooler, as far as i am concerned, it should be a mandatory item for the turboed models as the oil temps will run higher in the turbocharged engines. for those who also operate in areas where temperatures can be on the cool side during the winter, you can put a small damper over a small portion of the oil cooler to help warm up the oil.

[lvflyer]

Thanks for the reply. Can't see any blockages looking into the cooler. Is there somewhere else I should be looking. I can't understand why they would remove the auxiliary cooler. Just dumb.

[FSXPilot]

I don't think the 280C came fitted with two coolers. We have retrofitted one to a 280C in the past. It is a lack of cooling power and slow speed that is causing your problem.

[lvflyer]

Is there a preferred method to clean the oil cooler to make it efficient as possible? There is a round access hole in the ducting that I removed and there wasn't anything piled in there, but when I put light behind it I can't see the light completely through the fins. I assume if there is an accumulation of dirt on the fins it wouldn't be efficient.

[FSXPilot]

You can get oil coolers overhauled or just get a replacement. From memory they are on condition and not changed when the engine is overhauled. Like everything they age.

[CO280fx]

Lvlflyer,
Try some compressed air to blast out any crud stuck in the cooler fins. That has always helped drop the temps for me. You should also enrich the mixture when you need a higher power setting for longer periods of time (extended hovering, climbing, or slow orbit). In cooler temps, you will be primarily limited by EGT. At higher temps / DA, CHT and oil will be your limiting factors. On 100° days in Colorado pushing 10,000' DA, I'll be as rich as 1400-1450 TIT. That's below the optimum power range for the engine, and you're further limited by reduced aerodynamic performance from higher DA, but necessary to be kind to the engine. Performance drops off sharply with rising density altitude...

-JMc

[lvflyer]

Thanks that is kind of what I figured. More fuel is cooling just like my Mooney on steep climbs in hot temps. I did blow it out and not too much crud in there. So must have been just a little too lean. I've never leaned beyond 1570 in any configuration. Do you lean more than that?

[CO280fx]

RFM says 1650* max but I wouldn't deliberately run it up that high unless you REALLY needed to squeeze out a long flight. Cold winter mornings I'll run 1590, maybe just a psychological block but I can't bear to see it crack into the 1600s. As weather gets warmer, I move to CHT as a limiting factor, use the GEM to view the hottest cylinder and lean till it stabilizes at 400* (should always be #3, usually by 30-80*, sits next to the turbo and furthest from the cooling fan). Again, RFM limits you to 450* (C models) or 500* (F and FX) but that seems blazing hot to me. 1600 EGT or 400 CHT, whichever comes first. Has always worked for me, your mileage may vary.

Flew 7.5 hours today on two tanks of gas. 1978 280C leaned to ~1570, avg fuel flow of 9.8 GPH, avg airspeed of 85 MPH. Love the old C models, very economical and you hardly miss the extra 20HP.

[lvflyer]

I think we are on the same page on the leaning. How did you get the fuel flow so low. According to my instruments I can get down to 11 or so, but not 9. In my Mooney I can cruise at 9 with same engine, but not in the Enstrom. I'll be at max weight tomorrow so I'll get a good idea on best lean. I'll keep your suggestions in mind. Thx

[CO280fx]

Those figures are probably as good as it gets. Once in cruise - bottom of green RPM (maybe even underrevved a bit), 23-24" MP, leaned out as described, sea level, light ship, very strong newer jugs in the engine.

Be careful when maxing out economy like this. Make sure to think ahead of power demands and enrich the mixture shortly before adding power. Simply going from Bottom of green RPM to Top of green RPM from this configuration without enriching can quickly bust your CHT/TIT limits.

[lvflyer]

I did as you suggested on cross country trip about an hour each way. I went to low green on RPM and 1560 to 1570 TIT. Got around 12 GPH best I could do. This was with 30 gallons and 2 people about 400lbs in people. I experienced the pilot door blowing open. Really a heart stopper. Had 12 to 15 winds and the passenger door off. Any time I had a right quartering wind the pilot door would blow open. Good thing previous owners had support oleo installed. I hate to think what the door would have looked like without it. Also had a high oil temperature on GEM in cruise flight. I assume because the winds from the right were not allowing air flow from the engine fan through the oil cooler. I richened the mixture and turned away from the crosswind and temps dropped. One other peculiar thing I could use some feedback on. When I first started in the AM I did my runup without the boost pump on as directed and everything went fine. At refueling when it was hot I went to do a runup without the boost pump and the engine stuttered. Do I need to do further troubleshooting on the engine driven pump or is that to be expected at times since it is required to have the electric boost pump on at all times during flight? Is the engine driven pump sufficient for all flight and the electric boost is a precaution or is the boost necessary no matter what?