'Filthy' flight decks

[HKG Phooey]

I dont know about anyone else out there but the flightdecks on the airline i work for are filthy.

Wouldn't even let my dog eat off them... Bits of food, dead skin.... oh and watching my collegue pick his/her teeth with the check list...

Even if I wanted to clen my hands there is a used bar of soap in the toilet that has a strange black tinge to it..

If health and saftey were to climb on board i'm sure we wouldn't be able to eat or drink on the FD and have to be on 100% OXY all the time....

This has been brought up with the company... and...

"deep cleans are sched when the a/c goes for maint"

IT'S NOT OFTEN ENOUGH

so how clean is your FD/ checklist????


:ugh:

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Have recently considered adding a portaloo and urinating in the cargo hold cause Im too lazy to go to the loo.


Lazy mofo I is :E

[catchup]

Try this.................

http://www.sagrotan.de/product_page/images/aerosol.jpg

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
I had a look into a cockpit one time,just after the skipper had finished his pizza and discarded the box,crumbs and crusts on the floor, the console and every other unoccupied surface. He thought it was a great laugh until the cleaners declined to tidy up his mess and he was compelled to return to his 'pit and clean up.The look of contempt on his FO's face was priceless.
regards
TDD

[Engineer]

I dont know about anyone else out there but the flightdecks on the airline i work for are filthy.

May be you should consider doing a little housework next time you sit in your work area :ok:

[Metro man]

I leave the flight deck as I expect to find it, neat and tidy. That means no rubbish left behind and all documents etc in the correct place.

However I don't expect to have to bring rubber gloves and Ajax with me to work in order to clean up, that's the cleaners job.

The company have the right to expect us not to make a mess, and we have the right to a properly maintained workplace.

[mbcxharm]

Yup, absolutely filthy!

More than 40 types of urine found on the control column by an inspector once I heard. I try not to touch it anymore. :)

My captain decided the other day that we needed to do a bit of hoovering so we borrowed the cleaners' hoover. Well, when I say 'we' I obviously mean 'I'...

[HKG Phooey]

Engineer

May be you should consider doing a little housework next time you sit in your work area

Dude.... I dont expect to have to remove traces of gingavitis from my checklist and bits ready-chewed food from the control column and varoius buttons.

I'm sure you go ape when your coffee cup is left out and dirrty.... same thing little engine....

now be cool....

[Golden Rivet]

I'm with Engineer :ok:

Pilots make the mess, they should clean it up.

[Bolty McBolt]

Its your office..keep it clean.
Just another example of these self appointed “professionals” behaviour.
I am with “engineer”

[brakedwell]

A box of Latex gloves doesn't cost much!

[dada]

making a mess keeps cleaners in jobs - a bit like abandoning your shopping trolley in the supermarket car park - that keeps someone in a job also

[No_Speed_Restriction]

and engineers make good cleaners too......them fightin' words me thinks

[ETOPS]

A subject dear to my heart. To illustrate how bad one particular aircraft was, I cleaned just my side during a long turnround. Thats all panels and switches CRT's and finished with a good vacuuming,

It looked like a "before & after" TV advert.............

[allaru]

Since when did the engineers or anyone else for that matter clean the floor around their desk at work, or the tables in the cafeteria's.
I too clean up after myself, but im not responsible or able to hover the carpets, remove the twenty dead blow flies from the bottom of the windscreen, wash the lambskin seat covers with 5 years of accumulated fart fumes in them, or remove the black skin oil marks from around the various switches on the overhead panel. Its true most cockpits are a health hazard.

[Max Angle]

There is a big difference between leaving your rubbish behind for others to take away which is unacceptable and the reasonable expectation that your office be a clean, healthy and pleasant place to work. If the marketing people, the accountants, the MD or in fact any other person who works on the ground found their office with weeks of dust coating every surface and YEARS of dust, muck and grime in the corners and recesses they would quite rightly be appalled and want something done about it. Can't see anything prima donna like about wanting your office cleaned once in a while, why should it be different because it's an aircraft.

[Non Normal]

In an ideal world, people should clean up after themselves. But for the company to leave it dirty despite receiving complaints isn't on.

They don't subject their passengers to filthy cabin (or one would hope not), so why should they subject their staff to filth? Dirty conditions is not exactly great for OH&S either.

Unless, that is, the company is trying to keep their pilots awake by creating a cockpit stink. :E (then again, the filth may ferment and create toxic gas :ooh: )

[Trislander]

The flightdecks on our a/c are filthy. it's so bad that even a patch that looks clean, when wiped with a sanicom, coats it in black muck. Where you can see the filth it is absolutely disgusting.

The problem is that the cleaners aren't allowed to clean the flightdeck in case they break something or press buttons they shoulden't (!) and the engineers say that they are not cleaners and it's not they're department. It's an endless cycle, maybe a new job role should be created, 'Cleaners with flying experience' or 'Pilot's with cleaning experience'!

:yuk:

[meatball]

seat adjusted fully forward, belts crossed, ashtrays emptied of all debris, including inoffensive chewing gum wrappers, jeppesen closed and in correct order, fcoms in order, center console brushed clean, fingerprints carefully wiped off PFD and ND, thats the way we crew leave the cockpits of our expensive 330-200s...i was taught years ago to tidy up behind myself, like flush the toilet and dont leave **** on the bowl for somebody else to have to scour.........very basic education:hmm:

[Kaptin M]

I fell slighty embarrassed to have to reprint this oldie once again.

Captain's entry in a (supposed) QANTAS Tech Log:-
"COCKPIT FILTHY. NOT FIT FOR PIGS "

Engineers reply to the same entry":-
COCKPIT CLEANED. NOW FIT FOR PIGS"

[HKG Phooey]

People...

It's all very good cleaning up the rubbish in the flight deck, which i'm sure most of us do....

It's the crap on the floor thats the problem... dead skin, tiny bits of food, short curly hairs:yuk:, spilt coffee that you dont have the equipment to clean up properly, that get stuck in the floor in all those wee places that just attract stuff like that and build up quickly...


I never said it was an engineers job to clean out the rubbish but surely something needs to be done to fix it...???

sweet....

[montys ex teaboy]

One should leave the cockpit in a condition that they would like to find it. Common courtesy really. I have found cockpits in an appalling state, with charts and aproach plates missing, stolen?, when vacated by one or two so called ex "flag carrier" crews.

I have always thought when I have come into a cocpit that looks like a dog's breakfast, what on earth must their place of dwelling be like? In most cases it looks like the cockpit they have left, unless of course they have someone to clean up after them.

There is an old and true saying "if the operation looks like rubbish, then it normally is"

Rats love filth.

[Kirkwall]

I think Max Angle has made a very valid point. Once we have cleaned up all the obvious mess from our own flying duty, there is still a lot of ongoing grime (dead skin, fluff crumbs and dust). This would be present in any work station including the MD's desk. The MD's desl along with those of her minions will of course get cleaned properly at least weekly if not daily.

Our company doesn't even seem to be able to find an aircraft cleaning company which owns a vaccum cleaner. There is little chance of an improvement.

[Lost_luggage34]

As an ex-Engineer I have to agree with both opinions.

I have found disgusting Flight Decks and some things I would probably not want to discuss on a public forum.

Some Engineers are spectacularly clean in their approach to work, usually the ones that sort the FMC out and have escalated themselves to that position. The ones that like to appear on TV with a certain airline - shock horror stuff !!

The type who have long moved on from one end of a screwdriver to the other.

Before you jump, I have done both positions.

There are, of course, other types who have to get down in the dirt and do a - what I consider to be - true Engineering job. Those with the tools do get dirty.

Dirt and misplaced documentation is a burden of any Engineer and also Flight Deck crew.

I think this matter is well raised.

In my previous work - I had to go down into the Avionics bay, I, as a result got dirty, but it didn't stop me cleaning up the switches on the flight deck after I had had my hands on them.

I had a respect for the simple fact that the Flight Crew were going to be there for some time, eating, holding cups of coffee etc etc.

No decent reason why at the end of the day you cannot raise this with your Operations staff as it could be a basic H&S matter if it concerns you so much.

But just as common deceny goes by the way so does common deceny in Engineering staff.

However, look at the bigger picture as an Engineer I say.

You are there to support an airline, Flight Deck and Cabin Crew. They are all equally important to your livelihood at the end of the day.

Basic cleanliness from what you do as an aircraft Engineer is a compliment to the Crew. It doesn't take much effort and is generally appreciated.

Apologies if I have ranted on - a point needed to be made.

[Pilot Pete]

Have flown in a few dirty cockpits in my time and it isn't pleasant. Companies tend to shy away from paying 'proper' aircraft cleaners (I mean flight deck, not toilets/ cabin), presumably on the grounds of cost. Engineers often get burdened with it and (not for any particular reason) it often just doesn't get done.

As for pilots cleaning the cockpit, well, certainly tidying your rubbish away and following the example of meatball is to be commended. It is the more permanent grime that is the real problem and pilots don't have the cleaning materials and clothing to do this job, let alone the time to be crawling around on the floor pre/post flight.

What is really annoying though is the guy who uses the sani-wipe to clean the PFD screens after he has cleaned the headset and control column. It leaves smears all over them and is totally unsuitable for the job, leaving them less clear than the film of dust!

PP

[Ghostie31]

GETTING HEATED!


:}

[Bart O'Lynn]

(you) "filthy flight decks".

I thought it was a spanish hosty talking about me.:E

[TwoDots]

Can you imagine how much dust and rubbish would appear in the flight deck during a rapid depress ?

Scary thought ...

[nooluv]

Exactly Two Dots!

The "Windsor Incident" DC 10 cargo door blew out. Crew blinded by dust & crap from flight deck floor...

[maxalt]

I employ a little 2" paintbrush (unused of course!) to dust off the panels and remove the crap that lodges in the joints between consoles. It helps. But its the filthy dirty headsets that get me! We can't have personal headsets, so we get to enjoy having dandruff and hair ridden earmuffs caressing our noggins.

I've had a recurring problem with lip infections - cold sores - in exactly the spot where the boom mike sits. YUCK!!:uhoh:

Are you allowed personal headsets? How did you arrange this with your employers?

[jetrider757]

We don't allow cleaners anywhere near the flight deck - things get pressed and moved that shouldn't be ! I always leave things as I'd like to find them but some guys are just slobs. there's often more food on the aisle stand than on my meal tray !!

Maxalt, you should be able to use your own headset but you'll need to have it approved by your engineers. Airlines should provide headsets for each individual pilot I think but the penny pinchers wont allow it.

[ou Trek dronkie]

Trislander : You have focussed precisely on the issue.

Kaptain M : even better

montys ex teaboy : Disturbing, yet valid

Lost_luggage34 : A very wise post

It all can be summed up by Professionalism.

I remember when I once made an entry in the tech log of one airline I used to fly for, suggesting the headsets should be cleaned of the different types of earwax they bore. (Sorry about that, but you all started it after all).

It caused me some HF problems of course, I can still remember the wide staring eyes of the technician as he looked at me and said “Are you serious man ???”.

So, not being one to give up so easily, I adopted an aggressive/defensive stance and cleaned them myself as part of the BF checks (matchsticks, Dettol and tissue did a reasonable job).

This is one of the most relevant treads I have read for a long time. Almost every post is spot on.

Thanks to HKG Phooey for posting it.

oTd

(What on earth am I doing writing about this sort of thing on a Sunday night ???????? I must try to get out a little more frequently).

[Engineer]

in exactly the spot where the boom mike sits. YUCK!!As I have told a few women "you should be careful what you put near or in your mouth." :E

On the aircraft I have flown when the cabin is cleaned the cleaning staff have all ways hovered the Flight Deck and cleaned out the ash trays. But to not clean the personal rubbish away. That is and should be the responsibility of the crew member that occupies that work place.

In reply to HKP original post regarding checklists if these are used as toothpicks and you feel strongly about this, remember a defaced checklist has to be replaced and an entry in the tech log will ensure this :ok:

As for the headsets and oxygen masks the personal use of antispectic wipes is the simple solution

[Cardinal]

I once thrust my hand into a chart pocket and grasped a lubricated condom. I jumped so high I nearly hit my noggin on the overhead. In stark dread and terror I fished it out, to discover, thankfully, that It was yet unused. Most horrifying experience of my airline career, considerably more so than nearly departing a snowy runway.

[Sunfish]

I've seen "remove dead mouse from throttles" written up years ago.

[cavortingcheetah]

;)

Just another little aside:

Why do those you fly in glass cockpits feel the need to leave their stubby little fingerprints on the glass screens? :hmm:

[flap15]

Its due to the common misconception that there is braille information contained on the surface. It drives me nuts. A snicom and paper towel first flight on the day cures it before the screens get to warm.

[ETOPS]

to leave their stubby little fingerprints on the glass screens?

Worked this one out a while ago.

Trainers :D

They can't help touching the screens whilst pointing out items of passing interest to their vict... trainees.

[Bus429]

Just like to point out that dirt is not just an asthetic consideration.
UK CAA CAAIPS point out that dirt attracts moisture, ergo can attract corrosion and other nasties.

I got fed up with cleaning up after dirty pilots (some, however, leave the FD in good condition). Amazed that coffee spillages are often not reported.

[AUTOGLIDE]

In case anyone hasn't noticed, airline maintenance departments aren't exactly over staffed. Personally I find my limited time best spent fixing/maintaining the aircraft so it can fly, not cleaning it, particularly as I am fed up with a minority of flight crew who feel it's their right to leave a flightdeck full of newspapers/supplements/magazines etc. If there was time to read them, there was time to clean up your own dirt.

[Danny]

Let's just differentiate here between 'UNTIDY' and 'FILTHY'. Common and professional courtesy dictates that the pilots should tidy up after themselves. Removal of flight deck gash bags and disposal of used water bottles and newspapers as well as wrappers and other garbage should be done by the pilots. Usually placing these items into one gashbaag for the cleaners to remove is sufficient. Stowing manuals and charts or leaving them tidy for the next crew should also be SOP for anyone employed on the flight deck.

As far as hygene, that is a separate matter. I remember joining my first jet airline and being given a 2" paintbrush and told that I can either use it to paint my home during the quiet winter months (whatever happened to those?) or else use it to clear away the accumulated dust (mostly dead skin cells) that gathers in every nook and cranny on a flight deck. Unfortunately, I noticed that every time I used it to 'dust', all I seemed to be doing was rearranging the dirt as it would just fly up into the air and swirl about before settling back on the screens and into all the other orifices!

As to other dirt such as crumbs, wayward peas, coughed up boiled sweets, half chewed food and everything else that gets spilled or splashed around the flight deck (and that's just from me!) it really begs the question, why isn't something done about it? Some companies arrange for a 'deep clean' of the flight deck when it goes in for heavy maintenance but judging from the reality I have seen in the past, that is little more than the 'rearranging' of the dirt and dust that I mentioned earlier.

Perhaps it's time that someone, perhaps our professional associations, should look into the hygene and health safety of the flight deck. Maybe I should start a company that specialises in deep cleaning flight decks and offer the services to the various airlines. Something along the lines of a crew of cleaners who are trained in dealing with flight decks and aware of the need to be extra careful about pushing switches etc.

Even if cleaners are allowed onto the flight deck to vacuum the dust, why shouldn't they be allowed to wipe down the panels and sills? The next crew should still do their pre-flight scans and put right anything that has accidentally been left out of position.

Let's be specific here when we discuss the state of our flight decks (offices). We are talking about cleanliness and hygene. How many companies would invest umpteen millions of pounds/dollars in their offices and then fail to have the cleaners look after the state of their management offices? None probably except airlines of course. Contaminated air may be one problem on some aircraft types but I'm fairly sure that unhygenic conditions on most flight decks probably leads to more lost days work to various sickness overall.

Hmm... I feel a poll coming on.

[big fraidy cat]

Frankly, this is disgusting and really gross. Who among the passengers would have thunk that these conditions exist upfront!! Dead skin, yuk!!!

Perhaps the airlines could install wall-mounted portable vacuums (dust busters, as they are sometimes called), so that departing crews could tidy up a bit for the next incoming. That wouldn't cost an arm and a leg, and perhaps, after a short time, everyone will get the message. Perhaps no one cleans up, as the tools to do so are not provided.

Just a thought ... from a neat freak (dead skin! yuk again!!)

Question for Capt. Danny ... is this why you have flying pigs as your logo?

[tiggerific_69]

my opinion as cabin crew is that it doesnt take a lot to keep the FD tidy in the first place,just a plastic bag.when you get rubbish,put it in there!!!!!or when we come into the fight deck,gives it to us!!if you eat something that leaves loads of crumbs,try and get them onto a napkin instead of the seat & floor.its common sense,so why is it so hard for some flight crew to keep it tidy?sometimes i go in there and theres cups along the side of the seats,banana skins and sandwich wrappers on the floor,half eaten chocolate bars and some of them expect us to come in and tidy it all up.i dont mind if they pass it to me,but im not going in there with a bag and picking it up for them!!!

[gas path]

Our cleaners do vacuum and clean the flt. deck of all the detrious of a longhaul flight,
newspapers/waterbottles/magazines/cheeseboards etc etc. they are however not allowed to touch any of the er! 'hardwear'.
They have also on more than one occasion managed to 'dispose' of the Tech Logs :uhoh:
I have witnessed myself, engineers various and assorted managers rummaging around inside of one of Mr. Grundons compacter skips ripping open stinking polythene sacks searching for the errant paperwork.:}

[RoyHudd]

More female pilots needed. (Not to clean the place, simply to nag us males to be tidier)

[big fraidy cat]

Out of curiosity, and now that the subject of gender has been raised, are female pilots just as messy as their male counterparts?

[sinala1]

Tigeriffic as cabin crew myself I agree with you re pilots (and Cabin crew in the galleys for that matter) cleaning up after themselves, however I think most people agree thats not really the issue - the vast majority of pilots (both male and female) tend to have at least a small instinctive amount of professional courtesy and respect re the way they "handover" their workplace to their colleagues. The point here moreso is the lack of deep cleaning taking place can ultimately lead to not only technical malfunction but also a human health hazard. I think Danny may be on the money re starting up a company that specializes in deep cleaning flight decks...

(and I mean come on, in all seriousness - picking your teeth with the checklist? That's just wrong that is...)

[Mr R Sole]

One thing that I think about now and again... think of the ammount of grime and dirt that your seat cushion has on it. These are rarely washed, if ever! Some people end up standing on the seat as they try and 'climb' into their seat and think of all that sweat that the seats have 'soaked' up on those hot days!

My last company dished out hot towels to the passengers and if we ever got one then it was alarming to see how quickly it turned a nice shade of grey as I tried to do a bit of in-house cleaning!

[Curious Pax]

Big Fraidy Cat suggests a dustbuster. Coincidentally whilst a pax on a Jet2 flight last night, there was such a thing in the overhead locker that appeared to belong on the aircraft. Suspect it may be to assist the cabin crew in a quick clean during turnround, but maybe they'd let the flightdeck crew borrow it!

[Rollingthunder]

Well, I'm not a pilot, so I didn't vote. Bitching about it has it's place if you bitch to the right people.

Right, this applies to major operators who have a cabin mtce dept. This is what needs to be done.

Flt deck gets cleaned when the deep cabin grooming gets dons.
Flt deck gets cleaned if requested,
Lead groomers/cleaners are used to clean the flt deck and are trained about what not to touch.
Flt deck cleaning gets signed off on the paperwork and inspected if necessary.

A small hook is installed on the inside side of the flt deck seats so to hang a plastic bag for rubbish. Pilots try to place rubbish in them. Said bags are removed and replaced after every flight that is groomed.

As with a prudent cleaning procedure for cabin seat cover cleaning and replacement, so follows with the flt deck seat covers including the sheepskin covers.

If you don't or can't have such a program..... you've got a filthy flt deck.

[A330AV8R]

Last airline I flew for and the present one , all have disposable wipes for crews to use as they enter the deck ... that means part before starting pre cockpit and cockpit checks .. you have to take them wipes and wipe everything u think your going to remotely touch . . . .. clean !

then on with the flight :ok:

[mjv]

I’m fed up with all that rubbish left behind, if you can’t keep your FLT deck clean bad luck! ;) I am not talking about any rubbish accidentally dropped, but if you can’t clean up newspapers, magazines, cups, leftovers or any other :mad: I won’t do it either.

Cleaners shouldn’t enter the flight deck without permission and if we are not there, bad luck for the morning crew.

mjv

[racasan]

Airline Services train some of their staff to carry out Technical Flight Deck Cleans.

[Human Factor]

A box of Latex gloves doesn't cost much!

Careful, you'll turn into Howard Hughes!! :\

[Complex_Type]

Any of you guys who flew a desk before you moved into the cockpit may remember how every morning you came in to work, your bin had been emptied, desk polished, floor hoovered. etc.

I thought about this an decided I'd rather not have people buffing the panel with pledge. So I guess it's down to me.

[hollywood285]

Get Aggey and Kim to start a new progamme, How clean is your cockpit???

[Golden Rivet]

The next crew should still do their pre-flight scans and put right anything that has accidentally been left out of position.

and we all now know how effective this check is..................:rolleyes:

[very_interested]

Cleaning!

You are all correct. You can not expect to hire "untrained cleaning staff" to clean out an area which has sensitive equipment.

What makes this problem worse is the fact that many people pass through this workspace, so dirt, crap, rubbish builds up.

Also this workspace may be used 24/7. when does the window of opportunity arise for a "deep clean"?

The answer is.......

In the "dead time" The time in your shift when things are quiet, you CLEAN!

To make this wonderful thing better you leave a note for the next shift telling them how far you got.

Works in my industry. Unskilled labour just mops the floor. The people that use the equipment clean up their trash at the end of the shift, clean and sterilize what they used and do some of the "Deep Cleaning"

OK so some of you are going to yell... "we are not paid to clean!"

To those I say, "Take pride in the equipment you use, and care for it"

[Done&Down]

The aircraft in the fleet I fly all have dusting brushes (an ordinary 1 inch paint brush) attached to the FD sidewall by Velcro. That, along with the wipes, is normally sufficient to make each FD as clean as any individual pilot wants it. Rubbish is never left by preceeding crews -simply an unwritten, unspoken, culture. Prior to fitting the brushes pilots would generally carry their own paint brushes -if concerned enough.:O

[fly-half]

Just yesterday, flying in the cruise, a hostie was in the cockpit with me while the captain went to the toilet. She kept tapping the captain's seat back and loads of dust kept flying out into the air. It was probably dead skin and was absolutely disgusting!! I guess the seats never get vacuumed do they? I didn't ask why the hostie was simulating hitting the captain by the way. Don't ask, don't tell.

[missioncontrol]

True Story:

I used to fly with a Captain who was a stickler for keeping things clean in the flight-deck, and quite rightly so.

One day he brought in some "Mr Sheen", and when we were trimmed out and in the cruise, he liberally sprayed the entire instrument panel with this household cleaner, and left it for a few minutes to do it's magic.

Unfortunately "Mr Sheen" turned out to be black magic, and the white stencil writing which had been on the various grimy control panels, all dissolved and the paint ran before our very eyes.

The captain hurriedly tried to wipe off the cleaning fluid, and it created an almighty mess.

The next day was spent trying to paint the lettering back in with some Humbrol white enamel paint.

End of story.


The last thing I do before I leave the flight deck, now that I am the Captain is take a last look around and make sure that it is in a tidy state and nothing has been left behind.

Lead by example and instill in your subordinates the values you expect them to adopt.

[cavortingcheetah]

:)

Another facet of cockpit hygene is, of course, the tendency of some pilots to transfer their proboscidiferous excrescences from soggy, germ infested tissues to the power levers, thrust taps or whatever, thereby contributing significantly to the morbific spread of coughs and sneezes, especially in the winter season.
For this reason, I advocate a cockpit policy of one Kleenex, one blow and a liberal application of Dettol Disinfectant Spray to all surfaces which might be contaminated or subject to deturpation.
Perhaps, quite apart from twiddling the knobs, that's another reason to sport those sensual off-white kid gloves so beloved of those who suffer from perspirative palms.:D

[maxalt]

...yes, unfortunately some guys need to take a little more care of their personal hygiene also. There's nothing worse than sharing a cockpit for 8 hours with a guy who has BO.
Ever heard of Right Guard? Use it!

[Engineer]

Interesting poll but it would be more revealing if it exposed which airlines had the dirtiest flight decks :O

I am not a professional pilot so could not vote :{ However as flight crew I all ways leave my station clean and tidy including the panel and table as a coutesy to the on coming crew member. Wish I could say the same for the two pilots :E

[amos2]

...and perhaps they might wish the same of you! :ok:

[Bus429]

Picking up on missioncontrol's point, pilots must never, ever be tempted to use anything other than a dry brush to clean the more apparent dirt and a sterile wipe for the control column and thrust levers.
Believe it or not, cleaning has to be carried out in accordance with approved data (maintenance manuals etc) using approved materials.

[Nick NOTOC]

The other day I found a bottle of water (halffull) upside down behing the FO's seat, right next to the high voltage CB's. Why do some of us don't pay attention to this kind of details?

Nick

[cavortingcheetah]

;)
So---
Alcohol flavoured early morning spittle is a big No No then?:ugh:

[CoolHandleLuke]

I have noticed that I get so dirty from touching the controls that instead of using the sanicom disinfectant tissues to clean the cockpit controls before the flight, I now use them to clean my hands and fingers after the flight.

[standardbrief]

great forum. i too am seriously annoyed with the state of the cockpit in my company. as previously said there is a general unwritten rule to take all your stuff out before you leave but its the grime left behind from people eating and sitting in the same place for extended periods of time that needs removal. does anybody know if servisair provide a flight deck cleaning service. are they the same cleaners that clean the plane (i realise they need extra training to go up front)

ps i though the final remark in a previous post regarding leading you subordinates by example hilarious! great crm:ok:

[FoggyBottom]

I love this forum!!:D

Last 2 companies I flew for had strict policies about living the flight deck clean and tidy. Neverless our "office" appeared always to be in need of of a good cleaning. I think it's just staying hours in the same seat, eating, writing, reading and sometimes sweating.

I personally don't feel too much unconfortable about this. And it's years I don't get a serious cold or any similar contagious deseases. Did I become immune? Did I get a benefical effect by staying exposed to millions of germs my collegues spread?:rolleyes:

[L Peacock]

Didn't a meddling cleaner once manage to crank an engine or is it an urban myth?

[Wings]

Four points I would like to make regarding this very relevant thread (Thanks HKG Phooey for starting it).

1.
I agree wholeheartedly with Metroman on page one of this thread.
It is our job to keep the Flight Deck tidy, but we are pilots not cleaners.
So while it is our job to make sure charts are put away properly and in order, cups and waste paper put in the bins provided and the place left in a neat and tidy manner, we are not cleaners and as such removing grime and accumulated 'other wastes' is not our job.

2.
I also agree with Rollingthunder on page 4 of this thread.
He lists some basic, simple strategies that would, at minimal cost and effort from all involved, keep the Flight Deck at a high standard of cleanliness.

3.
One of the only times I, as a Captain, pull rank and do the 'mean and nasty' is when the First Officer I am flying with tries to leave our workspace in a mess.
I have no problem whatsoever ORDERING him / her back in there to tidy up their mess.
Word gets around.
In twelve years I've only had to do this twice.
F.O.s who have a reputation for leaving the Flight Deck messy
(a) don't try it with me,
and
(b) if they know I'm flying the aircraft after them, they make sure they leave it in a state befitting its importance.

4.
I hate hiding behind such vague words as 'Airmanship' or 'Professionalism', so instead I will suggest that the state a pilot leaves his flight deck is
* a comment on his resposibilities reguarding health and safety in the workplace
* a comment of his opinion of his colleagues
* a comment on the standards he accepts in other aspects of his career.

On this last point, the same can be said of the Company Management who don't do anything about Flight Deck cleaning.

The sad thing is that while we all gripe about it, this thread will run out of steam and disappear but the problem won't.

[HotDog]

I always carried a three inch paint brush in my nav bag to dust off the pedestal. I still have it and use it to dust my keyboard, printer and fax machine.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

errr, yeah ok?!? :confused:

[big fraidy cat]

Why be sarcastic? It happens to be the best way to clean your keyboard, as well as the crevices in the fax and/or printer.

:cool:

[Kirkwall]

L Peacock,

Don't know about the cleaners starting engnes, but there is always an added danger of having them cleaning the flight deck post flight when a Training Captains has parked the kite and gone home with one of the engines still running. It happens. ;)

Upsets the baggage handlers too. :D

[unwiseowl]

Are you referring to a BMA DC9?

[Pilot Pete]

The sad thing is that while we all gripe about it, this thread will run out of steam and disappear but the problem won't. But will it? I guess it needs to be an issue taken up by the likes of BALPA....and let's not get into a Dan Air argument about the merits of them.........

They represent a broad spectrum of the pilot workforce throughout the UK. They have the ability to make this an issue if enough of us raise it with them. They seem keen to jump on legislation (especially the EU variety) when it suits, so surely there must be something regarding our work environment and the amount of cleanliness required in law? Or are we immune from 'normal' workplace legislation, just like Working Time Directives?????

PP

[kotakota]

I once had the pleasure to fly for Lauda Air. Well , the pleasure was the actual aircraft. They were the cleanest flight decks ever seen. A 7 year old 737 had a floor you could eat off. Paint brushes everywhere , the slightest paint scratch professionally 'airbrushed ' out , daily hoovering and woe betide any crew who left it at all scruffy , or with fingerprints anywhere. It felt like flying one 'out of the box ' everyday .
It was akin to Niki lending you one of his Mercs/Ferraris and so on ............ The aircraft were also his babies.
It is quite easy to keep them so from the start. Discipline.

[big fraidy cat]

Yes discipline ... and company policy!!

Besides, if you are forced to work in a pigsty (or if it doesn't bother you), then your work will reflect that. Garbage in, garbage out. Your working environment is just as important to overall performance, as is state-of-the-art technology. And old doesn't have to mean dirty.

:sad:

[whatbolt]

kotakota. Judging by whats left sometimes, I think our crews do eat of the floor.;)

[JAFCon]

A Number of points come to mind after reading this Topic

1. Flight Deck crew Need to Clean up after themselves, ( I once entered the FD after the Training Capt had left, to find Rubbish, Papers and Food in the Flight Deck, so I did my After Fight Inspection Picked up all Offending Mess Went up to his Office and placed it upon his desk. He asked me what the**** I was doing to which I replied I was returning his mess and next time I found it like that I would do the same, Luckely we were friends and he apologised for the mess and next day sent a memo to all Air Crew asking them to tidy up behind themselves after each Flight)

2. Please if you do spill drink or liquids in the Flight Deck Report it in the Tech Log (Nothing worse than all the Lights and Communications going out Mid-Fight, Over the sea in the Dark, very very scarey)

3. Flight Decks need a proper deep clean every 'C' Check, but that doesn't get done due to Management and Bean Counters not wanting Aircraft in the Hanger longer than it needs to be or giving the Maintenace to Third party Outfits who will only do as they are tasked.

I do think BALPA should raise this issue of Flight Deck Cleanliness with the Managment of Airlines and also the CAA, because it does have Health and Safety issues, and with less and less Crew on shift rosters if a pilot does go off sick due to something that he or she picked up on the Flight Deck that also raise's cost issues with the Airlines which will in turn have an affect on Profits.

As you can guess I'm an Engineer I dont like Cleaning up after some of the Pigs that sit up front nor do I like not being able to do anything about it, due to time restraints placed upon me by Short Turnaround Times on the Line or in the Hanger Inputs, I want to hand over the Aircraft to the next Crew Servicable and Clean and with luck the Crew will bring it back to me in the same condition, and in that way I dont get as stressed, and have more time to talk to the lovely Cabin Crew.

[shortcut_approved]

Just to throw in my thoughts.....

When I first started my airline job, when getting home before doing anything I would go and wash my hands. After one wash with soap, the water would run away black, after the second, a more translucent grey, and finally after the third wash, it would run clear again.

After a couple of months of constant sniffles and partially-blocked nostrils, I wondered if I was picking up germs from work. So I decided to invest in a couple of microphone muffs and ear-pad sock things, as well as stocking up on Dettol anti-bacterial wipes from my local supermarket.

My pre-flight routine now is to use the wipes on any surface in the flight-deck where I'm likely to be toucing. EG, control column, thrust levers, flap selector, etc. And the checklist gets a wipe over too! I also use it on the headset before putting on my mic and ear-seal covers.

Result now is less sniffles and less blocked nostrils, and the water runs clean after only two washes..... Oh, and several strange looks from Captains questioning me on whether I have Compulsive Obsessive Disorder. To which my response is, "Well take a look at the filth down your side then!"

I don't know if my routine makes a difference, but at least it gives a slight peace of mind!

Cheers,
Shortcut

[N1 Vibes]

In response to HKG Phooeys' original post:

Mr Phooey you are I presume living in that former far-flung outpost of the United Kingdom known as Hong Kong?

I also presume you travel to your place of work on Hong Kongs extremely efficient public transport. And on your G-Days you are travelling round town possibly with your family on the same public transport?

Or is it that when you went to work you were obviously wearing latex gloves to hold that handrail and ring the bell to get off the bus? Wearing a full bio-protective suit perhaps, with a filtered airsource? Or you didn't go out on your G-Days, you lived inside a hermetically sealed oxygen tent. Travelled to and from work like the crew of the Space Shuttle in a decontaminated Winnebago.

Now, maybe you could cast your mind back a couple of years to a time when there was a thing called SARS going around. And how everybody in the Hong Kong community, all 7 million of us, sat up and realised what a dirty bunch of what-nots we were. And all of a sudden, overnight, in response to the brilliant govermnment adverts, people were washing their hands after blowing their noses, after wiping their behinds and taking a whizz. So as to be considerate to their fellow city dwellers. NOT.

So if your fellow crew member has got the chart in his/her gob, what do you do? Well, you come in here and have a moan of course!

Maybe, and I'm not suggesting anything painful here, you could politely ask him/her to remove it from their chops? Or report it to your superior as unprofessional behaviour? You'll probably find they are also the person that cut's their nails on the MTR, spits on the pavement, pisses all over the public toilet seat, before forgetting to wash his hands and get on the bus, MTR, taxi etc etc etc. If you feel you can't do it because of the face culture. Well I wouldn't like to begin to tell you how many holes in the ground have been caused by pandering to face in our industry.

Rant over.


PS Welcome to Hong Kong!! :ok:

[ARINC]

One word or rather acronym springs to mind.....FOD.

Crap on the flight deck represents a major flight safety issue. If your aircraft has mechanical linkages your in double trouble. It's all to easy for something to slip under the control coloumn gator into the bell crank...well you see where I'm going and it has happend !

When I was a lad I was taught religously to EMPTY your pockets before entering a flight deck or cockpit.

Even if your in a Scarebus, it runs on wigglies and metal objects in particular represent a high risk when loose in the cockpit. Gum wrappers are perfect for shorting out electrical connections, as are coins.

Gentlemen in the interests of flight safety please keep your work area not just clean but immaculate.

As an aside

Standard practice for fastjet crew to do
FOD checks usually a period of inverted fligth does the trick, the length of which is governed by how much stuff the crew pick off the canopy.

[rmcdonal]

You should see the "flight deck" of a C206 after a day of Dingo Baiting :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[BackSeatPF]

You should see our ambulances. At shift change at our city-centre station it's
1) pick a germ lab that's been out all the previous shift,
2) get your first call at three minutes after sign-on time,
3) try to grab any chance you get to slosh some water and disinfectant over it (giving the germs a nice warm soapy bath).
4) get the next call - etc etc ad nauseam.
I imagine it has lots to do with 24/7 usage, rarely having a regular assigned crew per van, and snatching meals between calls etc.
:{ :{
Odd thing is we all keep going back for more ... duty? desperation? masochism? a weirdly magnetic love/hate relationship with our respective sources of income? ... who knows?
Keep up the good work, guys and girls. Every time we fly we owe our lives to your hard work, determined professionalism and consistently high standards. :ok: I usually face each flight with a heady mix of :uhoh: and :D - the :uhoh: applies to those in the management/finance/hr offices, not the "front office". The
:D applies to seeing the upper side of the clouds at sunset, circling Zakynthos for half an hour, whisper quiet at 4am with a full moon silvering the sea below, being the only one sober enough to watch the eye-aching gold of a June sunrise over Elba from a 757, surviving a pax flight on an IL18. Sorry if this is naive, romantic :yuk: to any tired professionals among you. I love that side of flight, hate the politics and what its doing to you.

[allthatglitters]

Until recently, I was with a european airline were it was common practice that the only complaint at the end of the flight, either written or verbal, was the flight deck requires cleaning. Not being flight crew, sitting there for several hours, being served trays of food and drink. I always wondered who actually made the mess that was so frequently complained about. In fact one afternoon there was an obstruction to the coloumn, a small empty, damaged coke can was jammed behind.
Breakfast cereal, biscuits, dinner on the floor and in the seat tracks, wet deposits on the pedastal, instruments.
Several times we disscused this subject and wondered what would happen during a decompression incident with this stuff lying around, whether this debris would lift and fly around adding to the problem....

[AMF]

I'm all for "leaving a place better than you found it", and there's no excuse for not picking up trash after yourself when you leave the cockpit. But reading this thread has me wondering just how many hypochondriacs living in hermitically-sealed bubbles are out there masquerading as airline pilots. I mean really...

Legislating away dust in the cockpit?

Cookie crumbs in the seat rail constituting a workplace environmental health hazard?

Involve the government and BALPA?

Dettol-wiping every surface or switch you might touch in the cockpit before a flight instead of keeping your hands out of your mouth like your mother told you?

And most of these comments coming from people who take national pride in the close-quarters, macro petri dish known as public mass-transport and the invention of the queue, both of which seem to be tailor-made for the puprose of germ-swapping with strangers?

Y'all are beginning to worry me. Makes me wonder what kind of diseases you're carrying around.

Btw, I think it was on the Discovery Channel where I saw that the "dust" you encounter indoors (yes, even workplaces that vacumn and wipe off desks every night have dust) consists mainly of minute flakes of human skin.

Just think, even as you read this, you're sucking thousands of them into your lungs with every breath! And don't even get me started about what lives inside the hotel mattresses and pillows you sleep on, mouth agape, where thousands have slept before.

Yes lads, you might go crazy thinking about it.

[pilotbear]

Our flightdeck is spotless, to the extent that we use specs cleaning cloths on the instrument glass during quiet moments in flight.;) and clean the A/C after every flight.

[Skylion]

Allthatglitters...................

Decompression excellent idea. Would clean it all out in a flash.
Just keep your harness on though.

[Fropilot]

It is the nature and culture of the airline that leads to filthy cockpits. Some yeras back starting with one airline I found that the cockpit crew could throw their rubbish on the floor and would then summon the flight attendants to the cockpit to clean up. The first thing I said to my copilot who having just cleaned his headset with his cleaning/disinfectant towel and put the offending towel on the central pedestal was "Put that somewhere else such as the ash tray or wherever you wish, but not in our common space." -(that is until it ready to be cleared away). He was offended but I made my point. As a Captain one of the roles I have to take is to tell copilots that at the end of each flight they must ensure that the cockpit is clean and all rubbish put in a plastic or sick bag for the cabib or cleaning crew to clear away. Instructors and all cockpict occupants have a role to play in this. Life is not just about PTS it is the way we interact with other people as well (CRM) that make for a great flying career. If I get into an aeroplane after maintenance and the cockpit is dirty because of maintenance work then who ever the crew chief is, must arrange for the cockpit to be cleaned. The same goes for a crew change only.

By the way in any outfit, fit to be called an airline a professional Cabin crew will clear all waste within reason as it a hazard in case of of a fire. Basic logic.

[amos2]

Yeah, fropilot, you go tell'em! :p

[AMF]

Um....yeah.....sounds like a wonderful example of good CRM where a cockpit atmosphere that promotes communication is established by the Captain.

My co-pilots always respond positively to nitpicking, especially when it comes just after we meet or when I tell them what they must do after each flight.

:rolleyes:

[TwoDots]

Lots of posts on Prune today (including one above) that make references to "my copilot" ...

These are the same old timers that make PAs that say I am "your captain" and this is "my airplane" ...

I thought CRM and Mr Darwin had removed most of the dinosaurs from this industry ?

[G-CPTN]

>>These are the same old timers that make PAs that say I am "your captain" and this is "my airplane" ...

**********************************
Aw - go on let them believe that they are in charge and not just the driver. I don't suppose it does any real harm.

[AMF]

Two dots

so I guess the sarcasm of my post (directed at the post 2 prior to mine) escaped you?

[belowMDA]

After reading this discussion I went to work armed with the determination to clean the FD of all the dust and grime I could. I get to work and find I am flying a 737 fresh out of a C check with not only a fresh coat of paint on the outside but a sparkling looking flight deck on the inside with almost all the avionic pannels repainted and clean, new seat covers with fresh sheepskins! Next time then:8

[armada]

belowMDA: LUCKY YOU! :cool:

[James T. Kirk]

CRM - COUNT the RINGS MATE!

This is my cockpit, you are a resource, prepare to be managed.

[G-CPTN]

>CRM - COUNT the RINGS MATE!
>This is my cockpit, you are a resource, prepare to be managed.

********************************

But have you got scrambled egg?
;)

[James T. Kirk]

Yes, imbedded in the sheepskin seat cover. :E

[threegreenlights]

What's all the fuss about chaps.....that's why airlines employ trolley-dollies!
They keep my male pax in order -
They keep FO and I amused -
They come with fluids etc -
....and they clean up the FD whilst George drives and we stretch our legs.

Some of them even look nice!

[NG_Kaptain]

LOL to three greens. In my outfit, being a small company, we leave "dirty notes" to any coworkers who leave crap behind in the cocckpit. As a result, we all clean up behind us when we leave the aircraft after a duty period.

[JudyTTexas]

hmmm...I had wondered, if there was a problem of the previous occupants leaving their bubble gum on the throttle. ;)

[Old King Coal]

During the last two days I flew upon two different aircraft in our fleet and, in each of them, the level of 'dust' (i.e. dead skin, etc) that was settled upon the surfaces of the FlightDeck was appalling !

Now I'm all for clearing up after oneself, e.g. all trash goes into a Flight Deck gash bag (which we'll also remove when the flying's completed), along with tidying lapstraps, stowing arm rests, putting Jepps away, etc, but I simply don't have the means at hand to also clean and hoover the flightdeck.

Nb. If only for my own benefit (and a for small fee :) ) I would be prepared - on the longer sectors - to do a bit of spring-cleaning (subject to the provision of a soft brush and a small portable hoover).

Aside - To prove what I mean, I'll take some pics on my next flight (Saturday) and post them here ( though hopefully by then d'management - which I know reads PPRuNe - will have done something about this filth ).

In any event I very much doubt that our office-bound 'team members' :rolleyes: would put up with the same level of 'dust' & filth in their working environment.

[amos2]

So tell me Cole, and others...

this "dead skin and dust" etc...

how does one recognise it?...

I mean, I spent 40 yrs in cockpits, how come we didn't have these problems in my days?

Like, do you lot these days shed skin like snakes, lizards etc??

:ugh:

[hapzim]

Thats the trouble with the beach fleets and all that time sunning down route. The peeling skin has to go some where. :E
Those office waller's suffer, apart from the odd nasel discard, only dust from shuffling papers and sharpening those pencils

[James T. Kirk]

amos 2,

The answer may be that these days the aircraft are pressurised. You can't just open the window in the cruise and blow the dust away. Shame really.

Kirk out…

[Firestorm]

Having not read the whole thread (there is quite alot of it), but it would seem to me that the office wallahs would probably turn around and go home if their office wasn't cleaned every evening by the contract cleaners, so why can't we have our flight decks cleaned?

At the last company I flew with the 'cleaners' wouldn't even clean the heads at the end of the day's shift. Well, they did, or said they did, but actually all they did was to empty a can of (so called) air freshener into the toilet cubicle. The aeroplane then stank of rancid heads and cheap air freshener, instead of just rancid heads. I realised that getting the flight deck cleaned was a leap of astronomic proportions if we couldn't get the heads cleaned.... I don't know quite why we put up with it, but for some stupid reason we do.

[inducedrag]

in one airline there was a abort due to a box of tobacco got stuck
between throttles and pedestal could not apply take off power:*

[JW411]

I have also heard of an occasion where the aircraft went off the side of the runway because some pillock had left an empty Coca Cola can underneath the nosewheel steering tiller and it jammed.

By the way, not only do we clean up after ourselves but we fit loose (plastic/leather) covers over the flight deck seats after flight so that the maintenance guys can sit down without having to worry about how much grease their bums have inherited during a long night of hard work.

It only takes a couple of minutes and it works well.

[nordwand]

Just be careful cleaning your own flight. I wasn't.
Very bored somewhere between Berlin and the Canaries when I thought I'd use a 'hot towel' to wipe around the radios. It went very quiet for half an hour or so!

[TDF380]

I must say im surprised at the response of this thread. Given the more important issues of fatigue, pay, conditions, intimidation, chapter 11 resulting paycuts and pensions, etc .. this thread will surpass them all in responses.

And I know I now are included in these responses.

Pilots should clean up their rubbish, throw away empty cups, wipe any spilled coffee in the cup holders after flight.
Only selfishness and arrogance would preclude this.

However they do not have time before flight to do spring cleaning with a vacuum cleaner, and should not be required to. Cleaners come on the aircraft to do that before each sector.

I would not be opposed to using a dustbuster in the long cruise sectors, but would it be wise to poke around the controls and equipment during flight.

Over and above the wipeing of screens by pilots, and vacumming by cleaners, the flight deck should be thoroughly spring cleaned in the hanger during each check, whether by engineers or cleaners cautioned over the care required with expensive equipment and risked of blocked or damaged controls.

[Wefeedumall]

Some of you guy's & girl's have hit the nail on the head when it comes to a/c cleaners doing the cockpit.
As an ex cleaner I can tell you it is scary stuff in there and we did have one new guy who wishing to impress his supervisor took it upon himself to spray all the nice switchs and guages liberally with a mild cleaning fluid solution!
Coming out of the cockpit with a large and satisfied grin on his face he was met by an engineer who asked "what the bloody hell he had been doing" and upon receiving the answer promptly grounded the a/c for 24 hours!
Cleaning of cockpits should be a specialized job but I do agree pilots should clean up after themselves with regard to papers/food etc.
Just to add although I am an ex cleaner I was not the new guy I mentioned above.HONEST.

[BleriotXI]

I would not be opposed to using a dustbuster in the long cruise sectors, but would it be wise to poke around the controls and equipment during flight.


Dumdidum, where's that dustbust.. ah, there it is. <whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrr>
Hmmmm, ladida, well this goes rather nicely <SHRAAAKKK> Whoops, there go the FMC buttons.:8

[Caraman]

My airline doesn´t have the money to hire someone to tidy up, so you may all just imagine what happens when the "freight dogs" rocks during flight and all crap lifts from the floor and panels? :-) I get surprise every time of what sorts of things I find...

Not to mention all dirt and germs flying around... There is then no surprise in that some pilots get sick...

[Charles Darwin]

The engineers think it´s below their dignity to handle a vacuum cleaner and a mop ( need more women engineers!) but won´t allow the cleaning staff in. They might damage the delicate equipment. Bull****, if you ask me! So, I just sit in the ****. :(
And this is a flag carrier:mad:

[SeldomFixit]

Charles, you're so precious. :bored:

[NG708]

I think our engineers have been reading this thread! I turned up for a Canaries a few days ago to find the engineer busily scrubbing the centre radio console - always the worst for being covered in food and debris.

I said it was very nice to see him taking the time to do it on a turnround and was told ( very lightheartedly) that they didn't want any adverse comments ending up on the internet! Was then thrown pack of wipes and told to do my own screens.:p

Nice to go for 8 hours with a shiny flightdeck and happy to do our share of cleaning whenever possible.

Would be nice if the cleaners were allowed to mop the floor on each turnround though, to get rid of the sticky spilled coffee which seems to last til the next check.

[Ignition Override]

Your c0ckp1t is not filthy until you see roaches walking around.

After the company which hired me in the 80s was bought out/merged, the then brilliant CEO (who lost his "golden parachute" due to "alleged" kickbacks from Airbus, while ordering the first A-320s in North America ['Wall Street Journal']) laid off lots of aircraft cleaners. After seeing roaches in the galley, and on the back of a captain's coat as he walked out, past incoming passengers....a crewmember called the local health department.

The local health department said that the aircraft would be kept cleaner or the operation would be in deep trouble.

The cleaners were quickly recalled.

Nowadays, roaches might be an endangered species because of "reality tv" programs. You should see which various repulsive insects/animal body parts a young Belgian lady chewed or swallowed on a Belgian show: "Unreal TV"?. As a simple comparison, the other things made the maggots look quite appetizing. The looks on her and the other lady's face were priceless. This was on American tv a few nights ago.:yuk: .Smaklijke eten.:D

[amos2]

Aaagghh!...look mate...can you just run that past me again?

:{

[Flatface]

I am back on my meds so every thing is just peachy. Now I just want to say NICE things about pilots.

[G-CPTN]

>I am polite, even to the 1 in 100 pilots who is an A$$hole and thinks he is better than me.

************************************
As a graduate Test and Development Engineer, I learned that artisans (particularly welders) can teach you a lot about structural failures. 'Wally' (the Weld) could fabricate a bracket that he'd guarantee wouldn't break during an arduous rough track vehicle durability test (and frequently be viable for production). The designers, however, rarely took his advice . . .

[rvsm compliant]

This topic brings to mind of a problem we had with our F50's in our fleet.
Underneath 1'st officers seat sits the DADC, coffee,tea,water the remnants of left in polistyrene cups and disposed in a carrier bag hung over the seat fore and aft adjust lever,had been known to escape through a hole in the bag.
On a few occasions we had DADC's going u/s,strip reports had suggested liquid contamination.This even went to a mod been drawn up by Fokker for a cover to be fitted over the DADC.
A rather expensive cost all due to the fact that you boys and girls,leaving your rubbish in the cockpit.Take it with you when you leave

[aviate1138]

NG708 said in part.....

"Would be nice if the cleaners were allowed to mop the floor on each turnround though, to get rid of the sticky spilled coffee which seems to last til the next check."

Aviate1138 observes....

Maybe it should be Mandatory for all potable liquids
in the most important, expensive, potentially dangerous area in the event of liquid spillage, that the said liquid is delivered in spillproof containers. Things we use to stop our kids spoiling the carpets etc.

Company Aircrew logo on the mug for 'Street Cred' and during turbulence and accidental displacement - no spills. Must be seriously cost effective surely? :)

Aviate1138

[Done&Down]

One area the engineers might take a little more responsibility for is by removing the sticky adhesive marks that normally get left after removal of an 'inop' sticker. The flight deck I was in yesterday had probably as many as 20 of these ugly patches.

Rubbing the marks off with toothpaste is the method white-ware dealers use -to good effect.

[Zapper]

A very good reason for clean flight decks is the storm of crap that gets in your eyes/nose/mouth in a depressurisation or upset/ zero G?

[jumpnut]

Hi guys and girls,

Just a question for you professionals.

Do you think that airlines, or professional pilots alike would allow a private company to provide this type of service? I mean specialised cockpit cleaning services, not your normal vaccuuming and cleaning of a cabin but simply focusing on cleaning and addressing many of the issues that you have raised in this thread? As we are talking about being exposed to critical equipment that some may see as a danger I am interested to hear your thoughts.

An ex Ansett Australia captain friend of mine once made this very complaint to me probably back in 1997 when riding in the jumpseat of his plane and I am surprised to hear that it is still the case even in today's world. I guess it is all about cost cutting isn't it. Everyone gets shafted except for the shareholders and senior management. It seems ironic that airlines spend so much money on new aircraft yet ignore little details such as this.

Anyway I would appreciate any feedback you may have!

Thanks

[allthatglitters]

I am currently working with an operator, whose cabin crew clean up after the pax have left, and you can guess who cleans the flight deck, the flight deck crew.
Perhaps the managers should remember as mentioned earlier, they expect there office space to be cleaned by contract cleaners so why not there aircraft?

[jpsingh]

You guys are joking right !??? All that filth in the cockpit...I mean guys get a life... I flew 8 years for a cargo Airline and whoever consumed whatever was responsible for cleaning up the mess.Also although an Engineer will invariably leave those greasy marks..it takes a bit of cleaning...but the kind of stuff described is revolting and obnoxious to say the least..

[738Capt]

allthatglitters

Lets name names here. Virgin Blue requires it flight staff to clean up after the pax leave, in fact they ask pax to clean the cabin before thay leave.

I have found food stuffs on seats etc.

I hope this is not the case on the flight decks.

[jafa]

I once saw a tech log entry, "mouse seen in throttle pedistal." Written off, "Noted. Hangar cat being starved."

In the DC3 you simply opened the side windows. In the jumbo you rig up a hose to the sextant hole. Virtual aircraft such as airbus only have virtual pilots and therefore virtual dirt, so it doesn't matter.

But I'll say one thing for this thread - most of you seem to be aware of who took it in there.

[MrHorgy]

If you want me to come clean your flightdeck feel free to give me a PM if you pass through Leeds, I might even bring one of my student lady-friends to "assist" :E

Horgy

[Rubençito]

That's one of the few cases that makes me happyfly my GA aircraft where ,if it's filty ,the only person I've to blame is...myself (the only copilot flying in it):E

[sadman39]

:cool:
Well the wonderful Airline I work for as a 'Lightbulb Tech' has very clean flight decks with very shiny screens. We try to borrow the hoovers from the cleaners('get off the lead!!') to pick up the crumbs/skin flakes so when the drivers arrive it makes them think we've actually done something. Was thinking that when my 6 lucky numbers came up on the lottery I'd start a company called 'Flightdecks R Us' employing 18 year old girls (properly trainned by me of course) to 'titivate' the pilots work places,any of you lot interested?

[wynned3]

Guys, what really annoys me is that most of my collegues have a facination about touching the windscreen, PFD and all the instruments glass. Most a/c's I have flow have an anti glare coating on these so when you touch them you have just left a big mark on it! Every day I have to get in a box to clean the glass. I wonder if all this cockpit cleaner that I am buying @ €16.00 can be given back on tax? I am not a neat fleak at home but when I'm in the car of my box I have to have it perfect!

[magdrops]

Two countries where you can be guaranteed tip top FD shine.
China, six pretty girls get on with a multitude of cleaning instruments and materials. One does all the work while the others seem to be supervising (a bit of leg pulling) whilst chatting and gigglling at the same time. If it make them happy it makes me happy, especially when the one that has done all the work leaves the FD happy.

Uzbekistan - Big Bababoska arrives with witches broom, ash pan
and pocket full of supermarket carrier bags. She took pride in her job and the singing was beautiful, even though it was 3 am in the morning and I hadn't a clue what the song was about.

[stilton]

Upon entering the cockpit a few years back, Captain noticed that the chap who flew the previous leg had left the tray with most of the remains of his lunch on his seat.

He placed it in a bag and deposited the entire contents (without the bag) in the responsible pilots mailbox.

I couldn't think of a more appropriate response!

[Shiny side down]

During preflight/security scan one day, I/we found half a pack of sandwiches.
I say half a pack, but the remaining sandwich had been bitten into. But the mould and decomp of the remainder would have challenged any forensics lab to identify the dental pattern.

Put me off eating for at least 5minutes.

[visibility3miles]

It wasn't a "filthy" flight deck, but one time someone had left food crumbs all over the cockpit in a Cessna 172. No problem until the takeoff run, when the vibrations scared the ants in the control panel and made them run up my arms!!!

Disconcerting, but I paid attention to the takeoff, and dealt with the ants later.

:rolleyes:

[Paterbrat]

Absolutely fascinating thread which I have for some time simply not bothered to read. I went to Executive Aviation from the Airlines and having come from an Airline where the Captain was treated with a great deal of respect I came to earth with a bump, when starting as an F/O I discovered that I was now together with the more approriate duties to pilots, the baggage loader, cabin service provider, and general aircraft cleaner.
The outfit I began working for was VVIP and carried Royalty and top Government officials. The Chief Pilot was ex Dutch Airforce and an obsessive compulsive about cabin and cockpit presentation, amongst a multitude of other things. Our aircraft sparkled inside and out and the only cleaners were the pilots. Our Ground Engineers never participated in the cleaning duties but we watched them like hawkes when they were in and out of the cabins.
I of course realise that these two segments of Aviation are world apart but having come from and recognising some of the threads complaints I can only say what a pleasure it was working in a flightdeck that was immaculate. Pledge, paintbrushes, special EFIS wipes, yes they do exist, elbow grease, dustbusters yellow cloths and Windex were all part of our kit.
Precariously ballancing out of a 72 side window and polishing a windshield may sound as though it comes from the film "Airplane" but I can assure you not having the bugs and grimy film after a threeday layover in Mexico City does wonders for vision.
While realising that the airline crews jobs neither allow for, nor should they require, flight deck cleaning as part of the duties, a culture of flight deck cleanliness most certainly should be promoted from the Management down and part and parcel of flight deck management and professionalism.
Cleanliness was, in the past, sometimes quoted as being next to Godliness. While many Capt's and F/O's may still secretly consider that their job carries them rather closer to the Diety above, it certainly wouldn't hurt all of us to do just a little bit of cleaning around us and to promote a tidier more hygenic space in the place we tend to spend many long hours inhabiting.

[BHMvictim]

I spent the best part of a shift yeterday cleaning the cocpit of the aircraft I am currently working on. The aircraft is in Heavy maintenance for one of the more in depth checks we carry out. Here is the process I went through

-Remove all debris... crumbs, skin flakes, dust from around the instrument panels

-scrub all the ground in crap off all control knobs and switches with a stiff bristled brush and mild soap.

-scrub all the coffee spills and human finger oils off the control panels with mild detregent.

If this cocpit doesnt impress the flight crew... then I think nothing short of a brand new aircraft will!

(Customer aircraft.... we have to keep them comming back for more ;-)

[Paterbrat]

Most not doing that for themselves may sadly not even notice, but one hopes they do, and come back.:ok:

[Foyl]

Reading this thread, a couple of things came to mind:

(1) "How clean is your aircraft?" ;)
(2) I remember about 2 years ago getting a copy of a transcript and some photographs of the outcome of some cleaning staff pushing a few buttons in the cockpit - I understand that there was substantial damage done to the terminal...
(3) That capt and FO who were caught neckid on the flight deck - I wonder who got to sit on those seats next? :p , and
(4) Quite seriously - one of my friends said that for the first year or so of flying long haul he had constant 'flu, but in the many years since then he's never sufferred from the usual winter bugs. He was quite sure that the crud in the cockpit combined with airconditioning did wonders for his immune system.

[ShotOne]

It's no use complaining that "They" are causing this situation. There are good reasons why cleaners are not generally allowed to clean the flight decks unsupervised. This is down to us as professionals -if the cleaners are there then get them to vacuum under your supervision.

Above all it comes down to common courtesy in leaving your workplace as you'd like to find it.

[BHMvictim]

The Job card that I had for cleaning the flight deck stated that aircraft electrical power be removed first.... therefore, if a switch is bumped of changed, nothing will happen. If a cleaner were then allowed to carry out the cleaning, we would then have to inspect the panels for correct conditions before applying power again.

That's why this job is left to engineering.

Also, personally, I remove some of the control knobs and panels for access to clean properly.... a job that is not really in the scope of a cleaner.

[Slasher]

Once I had an FO roarusly fart at FL350, but unfortunatly for him and his underwear it was a rather soggy one. Even from my seat I could hear the "splooch" but stayed poker-faced. So did he!

He sat there for 2 hours to Sai Gon stewing in his slop till at last we parked and he stood up - his butt was welded to the seat! He slowly got up and the breaking of the crust between the bottom of his dacks and the seat sounded like dry selastic stretching and crumbling.

The worst of it was after a hasty trip to the dunney he was just gonna leave the FO seat for the cleaners to discover and wipe up! Thats when I called in a cleaner (a sweet old lady from Pleiku) and got him to fully EXPLAIN to her what he done and what he wanted her to do. She nodded courteusly for a minute then suddenly blew the utter christ out of him and handed him a bucket and rag! :ok: